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In RONderings, Ron talks to his guests about their superpowers, including career advice, diversity, mindset, wellness, and leadership. Ron grew up in New York City, and has been coaching and leading executive searches for the last five years, taking what he has learned from 15 years in corporate, higher education, government, and non-profit contexts. He and his wife are obsessed with reality television, and Ron also moonlights as a men's personal stylist and group fitness instructor. Ron says, "I believe in the power of intuition and deepening one’s self-awareness and impact on others. I believe in the power of connection and transparency. I believe that we must dismantle systems of oppression and racism to recover our fullest humanity. Most of all, I believe our power to change the world starts from changing ourselves first."
Ron Rapatalo: (00:00:00) What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shape them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair. Let's get into it. Welcome to Ronderings, where we explore the lessons, stories, and insights that shape who we are and how we lead. Today's guest is Nicole Smart, educator, strategist, and lifelong learner. Nicole grew up in Crown Heights as the daughter of Trinidadian immigrants with parents who taught her integrity and hard work. A father who drove New Yorkers to their jobs and a mother who cared for elders in transition. Her own path led from professional sports to teaching graduate students NYU where she's known for creating one of the most inclusive classrooms her students have ever experienced. In our conversation, we talk about the pivot from law school dreams to sports management, her spiritual practices she calls smart intentions, and her belief that leadership starts with knowing who you are. Let's dive in.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:01:21) Hey friends, before we get started, I want to share something that's been big part of my own journey. Two years ago, I published my book, Leverage. That experience cracked something open for me. I saw how publishing isn't just about pages, about owning your story, sharpening your voice, and amplifying your impact. The part that meant the most, readers reached out to me to say they felt seen. That's when I knew this work mattered. I loved it so much. I co-founded Leverage Publishing Group with friends who would make know this world inside and out. Now, we help leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers turn their ideas into books and podcasts that actually move people. You got a star in you, and I know you do. Let's chat. Find me on LinkedIn or at leveragepublishing.com because the world doesn't just need more books. It needs your book. All right, let's get to today's episode. Peace.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:02:10) Ronderings Universe, I have another treat for you. We have my fellow Violet and friend and co-conspirator in the work of doing really amazing leadership and inclusion work. Nicole Smart is on the mic. How you doing, Nicole?
Nicole Smart: (00:02:24) I'm doing well, thanks. Hi, everybody.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:02:28) It's a pleasure to have you on here. And so, we're just going to jump right into it, Nicole.
Nicole Smart: (00:02:32) Yeah, let's do it.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:02:33) What's your story?
Nicole Smart: (00:02:35) What's my story? Well, I always like to say this where I think it's important to use who you are and really know who you are, right? What your purpose is, what your value is. But my story essentially dates back to mom and dad, right? Where, you know, I look at mom and dad as bookends in my life when you think of your purpose. So, my dad is a retired MTA bus driver. He took people to work.
Nicole Smart: (00:03:10) He took people to their destination. My mom, you know, she she's had a a bit of a career from fashion and and and beauty to being an assistant a retired assistant geriatrics nurse. Right? So, when I say that there are bookends, you know, my dad took people to work, my mom took care of them towards, you know, transition in their life and here I am in the middle helping to essentially foster the world of work when you think about it. So there lies my story.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:03:45) What impact did your mom and dad have on where you ended up whether you have an anecdote there's like a particular story about like how your dad and mom raised you like from what they did at work, right? Because that's definitely to for you to describe you as the middle of their bookends for you to be in what you do. Really interested in like going a little bit deeper.
Nicole Smart: (00:04:09) So just to tie it back, they made some sacrifices, right? I am Trinidadian, right?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:04:16) Yes.
Nicole Smart: (00:04:17) And they essentially in their later years in life decided we're going to move to the United States from a hot country during the winter. You know, when you think of when you think of 1980s, for example, in December, it was a different type of cold. Or maybe because I'm coming from a hot country, it felt different, but that's sacrifice that they made when they came to wanting to provide us with some additional opportunities when it comes to a career, when it comes to education, when it comes to employment.
Nicole Smart: (00:05:01) And they instilled in me the very hard work ethic. Like my parents were hard workers. They showed up. They did what they had to do. And when you think of a very transformative time in my life where it wasn't very easy, you know, growing up in the 80s, Crown Heights, I always say that, you know, Yeah, you know, I wasn't caught up in the streets, but my life was New Jack City for the first 10 years to be honest, right? If you've seen...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:05:32) I grew up in East Flatbush in the 70s get it, right? You know, from from the crime and and all the other other influences that are out there.
Nicole Smart: (00:05:41) But I will say they taught me, you know, how to have integrity with work. Work was very much at the center. I'm not saying that they worked too much, but you know, you have to work. When you think of society, the construct, you know, being able to take care of yourself, and your families, etc. So, that is what I've learned from mom and dad who I'm very grateful right now where they're both retired. They're able to reap the benefits of their hard work and and see me be successful in some other things when it came to bringing us myself. When I say us, I have two younger brothers. They always tend to to seem like they're the oldest, but I'm the eldest of three. And, you know, it's very it's it's been very instrumental their their work ethic e ethic when it comes to where I am today.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:06:33) So, walk me through your career journey, Nicole, because I always like to kid around with things like being in leadership coaching, executive coaching, and doing DEI work, right? It's not as if I know many people who do the work that you and I do that all the way back from childhood or college like I majored in that. I knew I was going to do that, right? So, walk me through how you got to where you are.
Nicole Smart: (00:07:02) Yeah, that's a good question. So, I will say part of or a A lot of the inspiration behind, let's say, the DEI part has been when I first came to the United States, no one was talking about diversity, no one was talking about culture, when you think of public schools, etc. So, I I was pissed on a lot, right? You know, I had an accent. I had a Triny accent. If you if you if you start to hear the the accent, know that I'm pissed off because it kind of comes out very easily.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:07:38) I grew up in uh South Ozone Park, so I grew up with a lot of Gy folks. And so, I know that Guy and Trinidad Yeah. that accent is very distinct. Yes.
Nicole Smart: (00:07:54) Yes. Yes. But I was picked on a lot, you know, when you think of, you know, being again young moving into another country and New York and Brooklyn, New York and Crown Heights at that, right? When you think of the different layers, if you're familiar with with the local city. But I will say the driving force for my career has been to help, you know, re redo some of the challenges that I had, right? And however I can contribute so no one else, you know, Yeah, is impacted when you think of people making fun of your accent where you can feel like you can be your authentic self. When it comes to opening doors for access to opportunities for making people feel that they're valued and heard, it starts really from that where I believe there's some research out there that talks about this where the biggest impetus for your career and focus has been some of the the challenges that you've had in life. So, it was very challenging early on.
Nicole Smart: (00:08:58) But just to go back when I think about my career, So it wasn't linear as you could imagine. You know a lot of us don't talk about the journey right where the journey essentially is the destination. You're going to you're going to go up and down you know left right how however you name it, right? You can plan all you want but and these are the same things that I talk to my students as well and say good decisions doesn't necessarily mean that you won't get a bad outcome. It's what you learn from them how you pivot how you figure out what to do next. So for me you know started off wanting a career in-law, right? Because I felt that this that ESQ at the end of my name, I have to have Nicole Smart Esquire, right? And it's going to open all these doors for me. However, fast forward where I landed a role in professional sports. And it was very instrumental in who I am today. When you think of how I went to school full-time and worked full-time for both college and and graduate school, right? There was a drive there. And, you know, it makes for good storytelling. You know, you got to have some battle wounds when you talk about these things. Right.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:09:54) That's right.
Nicole Smart: (00:09:55) Exactly. So I will say that you know being in that space it lends itself to where I am today. I just I just lost my train of thought there. Tell me what I was saying again so I can...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:10:10) You were talking about working in professional sports. Yeah. And how you had to both work really hard being in professional sports to get you through, you know, your early part of your career.
Nicole Smart: (00:10:27) Yeah. So, what was I going to say with that? There was a point I was going to make with that part. Professional sports. Yes. So, the law the law part that's what it was.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:10:37) Yes.
Nicole Smart: (00:10:39) So, the you know the being on this journey where again you know I wanted to go to law school and after graduating from NYU I have a bachelor of science and leadership and management studies. You know NYU has taught me about community and giving back etc. I'm around when you think of the workplace I'm around very impressionable people particularly in law. Most of my friends are lawyers, you know, not sure why, but you know, I've I've in that environment for some reason.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:11:08) You didn't need to be a lawyer. You just needed a bunch of friends who were lawyers. You didn't need to practice yourself.
Nicole Smart: (00:11:15) So, after I graduated from college, I took the ELSAT twice. I don't know why I did that to myself. I took it twice because...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:11:27) That sounds like torture. Once is enough.
Nicole Smart: (00:11:31) You know, going to classes on Saturday, preparing for the ELSAT. You know, it was a journey, you know what I mean? With the really great resource of women in sports and events. I've talked about this tremendously where WISE NYC metro wise is a national organization when you think of a resource for women in in sports business. But you know while I was working in professional sports I participated in their mentoring program and I was matched with a mentor major of baseball in the legal department. And I will never forget this where...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:12:13) Okay.
Nicole Smart: (00:12:14) We were having one of our meetings in Grand Central Station and I was telling her what I was looking to do next, right? And she says to me, I you know, this is her talking, Nicole, you don't need a law degree to do what you want to do, right? And it wasn't diversity, culture. I know what I wanted to do, which is what I'm doing today, but when you think of putting the words to it, driving culture, workplace strategist, and all of these different things, that wasn't my that wasn't in my vocabulary at the time. So, she said that I said all right let me do my due diligence let me ask a few lawyer friends let me ask a few people in the industry and most of the people said don't do it if you're not looking to make partner if you are not looking to have a career a focus where you're going to fight for the rights of XYZ or you're going to do ABC really refine what you want out of your next step because it's not easy when you think of you know your first year right as a lawyer, how that can be pretty challenging. Even though there...
Nicole Smart: (00:13:21) Yeah. There are a number of institutions locally in New York where you can go part-time, but you know, they encouraged me and said, "If you're going to work full-time, this is what you're going to be up against. Are you ready for that?" essentially, right? So, I did the due diligence and made the decision to actually do some research and see where I can still go to work and go to school and came across the M's program at Cornell where that's history. So, that was the driving factor when I looked at a lot of the course subjects, you know, when you think of labor and employment law and arbitration statistics, not so much, but it is what it is to where I am today. So, that was really the the driving factor factor for that part.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:14:10) All right, let me keep it real. A lot of us have write a book sitting our goals list maybe for years. I sure did. Good news is there's more than one way to get it done. If you've got more money than time, a ghost rider can help bring your story to life. If you got more time than money, a great book coach can guide you through the process step by step. If you already written the thing, you'll want someone to shepherd you through publishing so you don't waste time or cash. Here's the thing, though. No matter how you do it, the real win is writing the right book. The one that builds your credibility, grows your business, and actually makes a difference. That's what the team at Books That Matter is all about. Head to books that matter.org and get some feedback in your idea or manuscript. Don't sit on it any longer. your book could be exactly what the world needs.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:15:05) Yeah. I'm always fascinated, right, because I want an MD at the end of my name sometime, right? It's the it's the like stereotypical immigrant story of, right, that the letters...
Nicole Smart: (00:15:20) Yes.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:15:21) that the prestige and what we take of the prestige of the letters and what path linear path admittedly that we get taught from a young age is going to just lead us to where we are, right? It's funny like one of my future guests does I work who's also an NYU alumna and she has a law degree, right? So for me like off off book like I want to introduce the both of you because I'm sure you have a lot to talk about, right? In terms of your journeys, right?
Nicole Smart: (00:16:01) Stronger together as a community.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:16:04) Yeah. But it's interesting, right? You get taught these things around there's a path to get there and for some folks like that might be the path they decide to take. But I'm glad early on in your career you did your research and said this doesn't make sense for me. And to have that mentor tell you that.
Nicole Smart: (00:16:21) Yes.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:16:22) Imagine if he didn't have that conversation.
Nicole Smart: (00:16:25) Exactly. Exactly.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:16:28) Yeah. Yeah. I know I know a lot of lawyers who Well, we won't get into that, but...
Nicole Smart: (00:16:34) Yeah. I I have to say there are very few professionally happy lawyers that I know.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:16:40) Yeah. See, I can say the ones that I actually do know that are happy generally do their own practice.
Nicole Smart: (00:16:51) Yeah. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:16:53) Like they built they're not a partner at the firm. They built their own thing. I'm think of someone particularly in mind who also will be The person's an NYU alum that I know extremely I mean there's a theme here of NYU.
Nicole Smart: (00:17:09) Yes. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:17:11) With the Ron podcast, you know.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:17:15) Yeah. I should Yeah. I'm just wearing I'm wearing my uh Knicks t-shirt today because I'm hoping that the Knicks can finally win a chip for my sanity.
Nicole Smart: (00:17:28) It's rough. Yeah, it's rough. It's rough.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:17:34) Yeah. Well, Nicole, tell me a little bit about the work you're doing today. We're going to fast forward. Tell tell the audience what does Nicole do today with her DEI and like leadership coaching work.
Nicole Smart: (00:17:47) Yeah. So with the DI as as you would or as you're aware of there are a lot of challenges politically, socially, culturally and the workplace. Some organizations don't want to touch it. DEI has been rolling back for some time. When you think of how we got to a lot of these highprofile announcements supporting DEI, expanding on initiatives, etc. to where we are today. Right?
Nicole Smart: (00:19:00) So primarily what my focus has been right now now is in the classroom, right, where I'm teaching several courses at NYU, which is amazing how I got to this. Yes, my last name is Smart. However, right, people would say, "Well, that should be a natural evolution." So, I get teased about my last name.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:19:18) Professor Smart, I mean, if there's not a better academic like last name, I don't know what is.
Nicole Smart: (00:19:24) Yes. Yes. I'm I'm on brand, right? But, you know, strategic strategically thinking where, you know, I worked in pro sports for over 14 years, right? And then moved on to college and then serving on the board with women in sports and events, New York City to continue to to be that resource for women emerging leaders to foster initiatives, etc. to where to where we are today. I'm just pausing because I totally lost my train of thought again. This happens if I'm sitting. Yeah.
Nicole Smart: (00:20:01) That's okay.
Nicole Smart: (00:20:04) Yeah, I'm pausing.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:20:06) The question again. Yeah. You were continuing that you're spending a lot of your time with like the shifting winds of DEI.
Nicole Smart: (00:20:17) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:20:18) Spending time teaching students at NYU.
Nicole Smart: (00:20:21) Yes. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:20:23) So, what do you Let's take that let's take that thread a little bit more. What are you learning from your students? What are you teaching them? What what's going on with today? Like are you doing undergrad, grad? Paint that picture for us.
Nicole Smart: (00:20:41) Yeah. So, it's it's amazing where I am teaching graduate students, right? When you think of several topics from the business of professional sports to organizational behavior in sports business, right? As adjunk faculty at NYU, it for me is something that is important when yes, I'm hired to do something, but it's giving back. I believe that representation matters. When you think of women in leadership, when you think students of different cultures who are coming to the United States to learn about sports business. So there's a lot there there's there are multiaceted reasons as to the why in the classroom. And you know I always tell my students very early on where I'm in the middle of the fall semester.
Nicole Smart: (00:22:04) However, from week one I share with them I'd like to learn a lot from them as much as they would like to learn from me when we talk about particular topics of global sports. Right? So It's very interesting where you know given some of the strengths that I have where I like to learn every day when it comes to sports business leadership you name it etc. I enjoy learning as much as I enjoy teaching in the classroom and ensuring that there is an inclusive environment for others to feel valued where I've actually one of the great things I love about the classroom is if I can have one student say to me and this has happened where students will reach out and say this is the most inclusive I felt right in the classroom or you're an excellent professor or thank you for sharing or expanding my knowledge in DEI and social justice and how it's been instrumental in the business of sports and it's not going anywhere. So these are things that matter in addition to yes being a part of the amazing faculty at the the institution but that is really what gives me the energy and the drive to keep doing what I'm doing because and representation matters.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:23:14) I mean, it matters a ton. I started going through names and you probably recognized one name and she's gotten rightfully so her flowers at NYU. Kia Cole.
Nicole Smart: (00:23:25) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:23:26) Right?
Nicole Smart: (00:23:27) Yep.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:23:28) You know, who works with the Liberty.
Nicole Smart: (00:23:31) Yeah. I think she was honored uh last year.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:23:34) Yeah. Right? Yeah. And then I think about in baseball like the first Asian-American woman to be a general man. Yeah.
Nicole Smart: (00:23:44) Yeah. And what she's doing with AUSL, the African softball league. Yeah. It's amazing.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:23:51) Yeah. So, I'm curious. Right? So in my mind, one of my favorite things to do is see where the intersection of sports and leadership are. I have a yearly subscription to the athletic. I probably read it more than I read anything in the world. And so they have this particular handle called Peak, which is about the intersection of sports and leadership. So Nicole, I'm sure I'm like giving you a Victor Wenbayama like you know, Alioop here is I'm curious about What do you see in your own anecdotal experience of the intersection of your time in professional sports, what you're teaching at NYU and leadership?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:24:50) So, it's a broad question. You can go anywhere you want with it.
Nicole Smart: (00:24:55) Yeah. So, I mean, one thing to keep in mind where when you think of women, I am not a former student athlete. It's one of the biggest regrets that I have, right? Not playing sports where I was always being coming up in high school for for track and volleyball, right? Was it high school? Yeah. So, coming up know I was being I was always being asked if I was interested in in being a part of those but when you think of the research out there from Ernston Young where not many women are in the seauite right there's still a lot of traction to be made with that and I believe it's like 92 94% somewhere around there of women who are in the seauite what do they have in common they played sports right so there's a lot to be said about transferable skills and I know that the question is towards me but I use that to say you know Sports generally brings a lot of transferable skill, right? There are commonalities and there are differences, right? It's a business, right? You're you're producing, you know, a product that has entertainment value, right? You're trying to attract consumers if you're a brand, the fans, right? Deepening the engagement with fans.
Nicole Smart: (00:26:09) When you think of, you know, FIFA World Cup cup that's coming up next year and the 83 million fans that are in the US and are some locally where I was at a panel earlier this year where I forgot the gentleman's name at the athletic talked about growing the fans from 83 million to over a hundred million right when you think of the opportunity that that presents itself but you know when you think of leadership and sport in itself I always say sports is weaved into the fabric of our culture in the United States right it's a very big part of who we are when you think of of the attachment to sport. When you think of how these athletic departments are essentially the front porch of institution, when you think of sports, like who wouldn't want to be proud to wear like, you know, the the the Wolverine shirt or did I say Wolverines? Michigan. What's Michigan? Yes. Right. The Wol Wolverines. And then you could you could edit that fumble. The Wolverines or Yeah. You know the Violets, right? Where the women's D3 and NYU is killing it when it comes to to championship, etc. So, there's a lot of champs. Come on now.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:28:13) So proud.
Nicole Smart: (00:28:14) There's a lot that can be learned where there are a number of case studies when it comes to leadership. When you think of the New England Patriots and former coach Bellich and Brady and that whole dynasty and how they've dominated championships for for some time, there's a lot to be said that can be applied. You know, I always say where we have to go beyond the traditional school of thought when you think of and great that we've had the Peter Duckers that's talked about how culture eats strategy for breakfast. Yes. And how management you know theory came into play but the workplace is shifting and it's shifting significantly when you think of AI and technology and globalization and then you know the political environmental social technological legal environment and how that can influence the way that we lead or make decisions. All of these things have to be able to, you know, drive along with with the changes. So, yeah, I find, you know, it's so interesting, right?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:29:32) Because I think in these sports and leadership paradigms, right, and like I'll throw because of our identity as, you know, people of color leaders in this space, right? That often times that the folks who are held up to the standard of like this is what it's like to lead in sports are often white men. Yeah. I mean and some of the white men true like Steve Kerr, pop right those are two particular like head coaches like I deeply admire because I think they live values of inclusion right and I think a lot of what they talk about their own stories right I think speak to having quite the diverse makeup of people in their lives right which gives them I think a proximity and empathy around people, right?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:30:43) But I'm curious, right, how have you taught to students from what you've learned, not only in pro sports, but you've obviously done DEI work in many other sectors of your clients, right? Is how folks can lean into their vast identity matrix to be able to lead effectively, right? Because I think sometimes it probably took you and I a little bit to say, wait, your identity as a Trinidadian woman is very much informs directly how you lead and is unique. It provides unique value.
Nicole Smart: (00:31:21) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:31:22) So, so talk to me a little bit about that and how that gets woven in.
Nicole Smart: (00:31:27) Yeah. I will I will say that for one, I am mindful of if someone reads my bio, right?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:31:36) Yes.
Nicole Smart: (00:31:36) This is what I've achieved. This is where I work. This is where I went to school. That there's a certain perception that is created of me. If you don't know who Nicole Smart is, right? Yeah. If I'm entering a certain when you think of bias, you know, in favor or against, but when you think of bias, these things are real, right? The unconscious ways that that we look at others, but the way I talk about DEI in the classroom, for example, where I try to mitigate a lot of the false narratives that are out there so that we can have a shared mindset for the time that we're in the classroom as we navigate these conversations and how it's instrumental in the business of sport, right? But I also use a reference when it comes to the various dimensions of how we identify and I tie it back to the students where you have a primary dimensions such as your age, race, ethnicity, etc. And then when you go out in the the secondary factor, there are other dimensions and then the organization and the the country that you live in, how that expands when you think of how one may see the world, even generation, right? When you think of generations, five generations in the workplace and how we're historically shaped by different factors, what motivates us etc. So, I tie it to the individual as I have the conversation because you want to you don't want to force field feed the vegetables, right? Something that's good for you when you think of the thought process and what something is versus what it's not. And then how we can move forward. So, how are you nourishing this conversation or how are you applying it or how are you applying what you've learned about it to your decision- making as you navigate your career in sport based on what you know? Right? So that's how I I start off the conversation when it comes to the students identifying with these different areas. You know, obviously everyone learns different where I I use a a really cool illustration to have this conversation, but it's important to start with the person first and then move on to the conversation where I also start by saying this when I start the DEI conversation. I always say it is not just about hiring the next woman or person. of color and it is inclusive of white men and women. And I kid you not, whenever I say that in any environment, whether it's at a, you know, speaking engagement or whatever, you can actually see the energy shift in the room where the shoulders drop because, you know, once people hear you're having that conversation, then there's there's for some it's just a wall that goes up, unfortunately.
Nicole Smart: (00:32:00) Yeah. But, you know, I use that as a way to have the conversation and open it up to hear, you know, not not just what Nicole has to say, But I want to hear what you have to say as well and how you feel about it and how we can navigate this conversation when you think of how in any industry DEI programs and initiatives can essentially help that organization have a competitive advantage regardless of whatever market you have when you think of the global reach. So I just like to add when it comes to the conversation about diversity or DEI where I like to start with the individuals. So for example, you know with an illustration that I use when it comes to the primary and secondary dimensions to illustrate diversity when you have you know vis visible demographics when you think of you know race age etc disabilities not so much where they can be visible or not so visible but I like to tie it to the individual so that we can have a more cooperative right not to not to you know force feed the vegetables but we can have a shared mindset in terms of how we're having this conversation about diversity.
Nicole Smart: (00:33:04) So, a little bit of storytelling. Way back in my career, you know, I was I was approached by an older gentleman who walked up to me. There was a DEI event or programming around DEI that was happening and he walks up to me and he says, "What's this diversity thing?" Right? So, my initial response was, you know, just to again tie it back to the individual and I started off by saying, you know, you know, I obviously don't know your ethnicities, your beliefs, you know, LGBTQ plus status, I think I might have included in that conversation as well. But when you think of DEI, it is inclusive of white men and women. When you think of intersectionality and how people identify and how they potentially might get discriminated against when it comes to their gender, their age, their LGBTQ plus status or disability. So, it's important again to frame the language in a way where it's tied back to the individual. Right? When I'm doing these workshops, when I'm in the classroom, when anyone asks me to essentially explain what it is, that is the approach that I take with that. Whatever your brand is, whatever your industry is, and once you define it, you have a shared mindset, and everyone agrees, okay, yeah, this is this is we're in agreeance with this, and this is how we're going to move forward, there's some amazing things that can happen with that.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:33:43) Yeah, I like the way you frame that, right? Because I think the end of it all, right, if we're really doing this work, right? This is about building an equal playing field for everybody, right? I think at at like at its core, right, people want to believe that we have a meritocracy.
Nicole Smart: (00:34:04) Yes.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:34:06) I don't know many people would say, you know what, I want an uneven playing field and I want an advantage. There are people, I'm sure, that exist out there, right? But I think when you put it on those terms and say when we look at the data, do we have an equal playing field? Because, you know, We have to be very binary about this. Like you either believe that folks who look like us and people of marginalized identities are incapable, right? Or we have an unequal playing field, right? You have to choose like which one do you believe?
Nicole Smart: (00:34:39) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:34:40) Right? It's highly problematic if you believe the former, right? It was like really.
Nicole Smart: (00:34:44) Yeah. There's no refuting the data at the end of the day. No. Think of there's plenty of research. You know, the benefits again, not trying to force anything around, but you know, when you go in in business, isn't the goal is to to gain more customers, to gain a a profit, whatever your mission, purpose for your organization, at the end of the day, you want to have that competitive advantage. And when you think of DI, essentially it it brings that to the table.
Nicole Smart: (00:35:10) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:35:14) So, let me let me let me dive into something I often hear and I've used as a talking point of doing DEI work as a competitive advantage, right? Because that's not, let me just say it from Ron Rapatala's mouth. what our federal government is saying, right? And so that adds a lot of noise and pressure and legal pressure to a lot of institutions. I'm wondering how was Nicole smart as a DEI strategist navigating this terrain to still do the work while understanding everything that's going out around there saying?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:36:02) Because I think there's two things happening, right? Is I think I still think people at their core want to do the work.
Nicole Smart: (00:36:10) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:36:11) Right? Because I might say some things that might not be coded DEI or DI like having people have flexible work environments. That's a DEI uh thing, right? I I would argue that return to office is anti-DI even if it's not termed as such because who does returning to the office primarily affect women and caregivers?
Nicole Smart: (00:36:45) Yeah. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:36:46) Right? And we that is primary careers, right? Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:36:58) You know, you've seen the data around the number of black women that have been you that are not that are out of work, right? 300,000 plus, right? It's something that's being talked about my household and many of the black female leaders that I talk to, right? And so, talk to us a little bit about how you're kind of taking all of these constraints and things and pressures and still able to thread the needle and do this work today.
Nicole Smart: (00:37:31) Yeah, it's really unfortunate and understandably for some where a lot of organizations are trying to figure it out when it comes to the work in itself and how to essentially do that. You know what we're seeing right now is a lot of titles are being changed from the uh you know to to different titles. However, for me given that the the work has been rolling back for some time, you know, I'm still doing the work, right? Clients, you know, that work has has rolled back significantly. But I will say I don't walk around like Superman with DI the DI acronym on my chest, right?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:39:00) Yeah.
Nicole Smart: (00:39:00) If I'm in an environment where I'm actually hearing, you know, I feel included. I feel like I belong here. I feel valued. I feel heard. Then I know that what I'm saying, what I'm doing without actually using those words is still carrying the work forward in any environment that I'm in. So that's how I go about it when it comes to the political landscape.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:39:21) Quick pause in the action here. I know a lot of us leaders, entrepreneurs, folks trying to do good work have felt that grind of pushing a boulder uphill. by ourselves. What I learned is you don't actually have to do it all alone. Genius Discovery program at Thought Leader Path like having a think tank in your corner. It's not some cookie cutter formula about your story, your plan of impact, giving you the clarity and assets to take the next big step. I've seen people go through this and walk out with their voices amplified and sharpened. Some even launching podcasts like this one, Ronda. So, if you're tired of grinding in the dark, you're ready to step into your impact with right support. Check out geniusdiscovery.org.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:40:08) I mean, I think that's where I particularly like see the work, right? You know, where if my personal conjecture if we get stuck on the words and I do get that this gets layered, right? Because I think folks within our industry, right, at times can un like want there to be conversations about certain things as non-negotiables, right? Which at times think I would agree with those things and I think it becomes understanding this climate. How do we still do the work in ways that moves the ball forward for people to have better workplace experience if we're just talking about the eye the workplace, right?
Ron Rapatalo: (00:41:05) And I think I have seen the vast majority of folks I know have to make very strategic decisions and say it's really about working to move forward and everyone has a different compass around how they decide to signify their language to them.
Nicole Smart: (00:41:21) Yeah. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:41:23) Right? Because the end of it all, the work is still the work. If we're like when I think about, you know, DI work and K12 ed, if we get better outcomes for kids, that's what matters the end of it all. And not just academic outcomes, but it's it's the socioeconomic outcomes. It's all the other things that matter too, right? I I mean, you know, teaching kids how to read is still teaching kids how to read.
Nicole Smart: (00:42:12) Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:42:13) At the end of it all, teaching kids math is still teaching kids math. Really good instruction is still really good instruction.
Nicole Smart: (00:42:25) Yeah. It's a different, you know, playing field. When you think of being able to run a play on green grass, right, the sun is out, but when it gets muddy, it can be a little challenging, right? But you wear the right shoes to perform under those environments. And, you know, again, for me, it's just more so not, you know, I don't have to wear it on my chest, the acronym DEI, DIB, you know, all of the the amazing acronyms that are out there to help foster the work in various environments. But you move accordingly. You know, you shift.
Nicole Smart: (00:43:26) Yeah. You continue to do good and show up and, you know, just just see what happens next.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:43:34) Yeah. So, I have one last question for you before we start getting into the rendering question, which I'm sure the entire audience wants to hear and I'm sure you've been thinking about while we've been on this conversation, right? And so, I'm going to sort of take a little bit of a pivot here. So, I had um a conversation with a buddy of mine on a Ronderings Live, right? This is where I just like do something that I put on like LinkedIn live and Facebook live and have a conver I've had a couple of those conversations. So, my homeboy Keenan Bishop brought up this term which started to really sit with me, right? It's called sacred synretatism. He learned it from another buddy of ours, Hector Gadon, which is this intersection between the personal, professional, and the spiritual. And one of the things that I've started marketing to folks as I'm looking for future Ronderings guesses that I want multi-hyphenated leaders who practice sacred synretatism who find that intersection I think in a Japanese language like people have used the term geeky guy feels like sacred synratism so...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:45:10) I put it before you as a last question before you're when you think about where you are today what is sacred synratism look like for you in your personal professional like spiritual realm?
Nicole Smart: (00:45:26) Yeah. I mean, you know, Spirituality can mean different things for different people. You know, I grew up in the church. It's taught me a lot of discipline in my life. As I'm having this conversation now, I'm looking at a book that I have here because I'm very intentional about how I start my day, right? And setting the tone when it comes to certain practices that that are aligned with my beliefs and values. But also, there's a book called Take Your Soul to Work, right, by Erica Brown, right? This is literally on my office desk when no seriously like it's totally cool. For every day there's a section for you to read. I also have the daily ducker from from Peter Ducker with daily folks when you think of leadership and and insightful approaches to leadership and management etc. So for me it's all about intention and purpose, right? And when you start your day with words because your brain is always listening, right? it's important that you feed it with intention and redirect fection and positivity. So that's how I should probably name it something, but these are the things that I do when it comes to practice and my beliefs. So...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:47:33) I've already got a term for it. This is called the smart intention. Your last name because look, the name Ron comes really handy in creating lots of nouns. It's ridiculous like roundings, observations. But I mean, let me get that trademark. you shoot. I mean, come on. I'm sure you've This is where all your lawyer friends come in handy.
Nicole Smart: (00:48:01) Yeah. Right. Right. Right now, but...
Ron Rapatalo: (00:48:07) The smart intention.
Nicole Smart: (00:48:08) Smart intentions. I love it. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:48:11) So, Nicole, we're towards the end of our time. And what is your rendering? What's the lesson or value you'd like to share with the audience today?
Nicole Smart: (00:48:21) What is my rendering? Repeat it because the the phone um went off while you were asking me the question.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:48:29) What is the lesson or value you would like to share with the audience today?
Nicole Smart: (00:48:33) I would say know who you are, right? And when I say know who who you are, it's not just your name, how you you know your your your social security number, your address, you know, those kind of things, but more so know who you are when it comes to your strengths and opportunities, right? Never say that you have a weakness. If there is something you'd like to learn, learn it because again, your brain is always listening. But know who you are, right? What motivates you in the place, what motivates you to work, what is your purpose? You know, there are some studies around that you can really use to help you refine that. But just really know who you are and own that uniqueness that you have. That is your strength.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:49:18) I love that because each of us has a unique footprint and like way of being in the world and you embrace that. It's pretty powerful.
Nicole Smart: (00:49:28) Yeah, for sure.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:49:30) So, Nicole, how do people find you? What would you like to promote before we had our time?
Nicole Smart: (00:49:36) Yeah, so I um and thank you for for giving me this platform to actually share this. So I can be found on LinkedIn. It's where I am most. I don't post a lot but you know I I cheer people on. People cheer me on. So it's where I'm most active on social cosmart. Okay.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:50:07) On LinkedIn. Okay.
Nicole Smart: (00:50:11) My email pretty pretty easy when it comes to my business infosmartedisolutions.com.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:50:20) And what would you like to promote?
Nicole Smart: (00:50:23) So I am actually working on a new business called Purpose Tracks. So Purpose Tracks essentially is the coaching arm of the consulting services that I provide where Purpose Tracks is focused on providing executive coaching and coaching for emerging leaders regardless of whatever industry for most it may be you know lend it may lend itself to sports and entertainment which is what I've been doing essentially but Purpose Tracks essentially is to help the individual on various levels identify what their purpose is what their strengths are and lend that will lend itself to how they can optimize who they are as individuals within the work environment. I've done the executive coaching work with Smart EDI Solutions before leadership development etc.
Nicole Smart: (00:51:27) However, Purpose Tracks is a little bit more intentional when it comes to educating, inspiring and helping others to achieve given your strengths. You know, supporting emerging talent as they look to navigate their career. and then also bringing in the technology piece, the AI piece as well. When you think of next level of what I have in store, but Purpose Tracks essentially is a platform for executive coaching, leadership development where it's much needed along with a, you know, a pool of different consultants that can support the work as well. So, that's what I'm working on right now.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:52:13) Beautiful. Well, Nicole, I can't wait to hear more about Purpose Tracks.
Nicole Smart: (00:52:19) Yes.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:52:20) I can't wait to hear if you decide to, you know, get your smart intention practice out there and trademark that too. I want to thank you for your time. You know, it's funny like where I'm recording this through a dear friend from NYU and having another dear friend from NYU on the Ronderings podcast. I just have to shout out how much NYU has been good to me and it's really been good to me because of amazing people like you, Nicole. So, I'm just feeling really grateful right now having the space with you.
Nicole Smart: (00:53:05) Yeah, appreciate you, Ron. Thank you. so much.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:53:10) Awesome. So, I end this Ronderings podcast with the words of one of my favorite heroes of all time, the neon Deion Sanders. And I like to say, we always come in with hot guests like Nicole Smart. Peace. That was my conversation with Nicole Smart. What I take away most is her clarity and identity, intention, and the environments we create. Nicole reminds us that inclusion isn't just about acronyms or checkboxes. is about building spaces where everyone from every background can bring their whole selves. Her story is also a reminder of the power of mentorship. Sometimes one conversation can reroute your entire journey. If you'd like to connect with Nicole, you can find her on LinkedIn or at info@smartedisolutions. And stay tuned for a new venture, Purpose. Thank you, Nicole, for bringing your wisdom and heart to Ronderings. And thank you for listening. Till next time, keep reflecting on who you are, what drives you, and how you can show up. more fully in the spaces you lead. Before we wrap, I've got to give a huge shout out to the crew that helps make Ronderings come alive every week, podcasts that matter. Their mission, simple but powerful. Every great idea deserves a voice. So, if you've been sitting on that spark of a show or story, don't overthink it. Just start. Head to podcastmatter.com and let their team bring your vision to life. Till next time, keep growing, keep sharing your voice with the world. Peace.
Ron Rapatalo: (00:54:49) Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guest, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on. If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ron Rapatalo and until next time, keep wandering, keep laughing, and keep becoming.