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In this week's episode, "You've Got a Friend in Me," we dive into the evolving nature of friendships as we age. We explore the emotional journey of drifting apart from long-term friends and offer guidance on how to handle these changes with empathy and grace. Additionally, we discuss the challenges of making new friends in adulthood and how major life changes—such as careers, family, or moving—can impact friendships. We also examine the different types of friendships—whether close confidants, casual acquaintances, or work companions—and the unique value each brings to our lives. Finally, we highlight the importance of open, honest communication in maintaining strong, healthy friendships and navigating any conflicts that arise.
Creators & Guests
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Vanessa (00:01.577)
Welcome to the Shrink Down. We're so glad you're tuning in today. In this episode, we'll be diving into the concept of friendships in adulthood. But before diving in today's topic, we'd like to take a moment to share a bit more about who we are, as some of you have asked to learn more about us. So let's see who wants to start it off. Terry, tell us a little bit about you.
Teri (00:22.236)
Okay, my name is Terri Hull and I live in a suburb right outside Chicago. I have a husband of 16 years named Dan and we have two boys, Danny and Tommy, who are nine and seven, fourth grade and second grade. They are very much quintessential brothers. They are the best of friends and the worst of enemies, but they love each other. We also have a dog named Holly who's three.
And I have a private practice in Chicago, focusing primarily on evaluations. And then I also am on faculty at Rush University Medical Center, where I supervise PhD students and trainees. I've been there for about 12 years. So I straddle two different worlds. And in my spare time, I like to take my dog on walks, hang out with friends, read.
I like to read, and listen to podcasts. I listen to a lot of podcasts because that goes with the dog walking. And yeah, I think that's it. Anything else about me that I'm leaving out?
Lauren (01:21.388)
Yeah.
Lauren (01:28.942)
I don't think so. Sounds like you. Well, I've got a similar trajectory as Terry. So I'm in a suburb in Michigan. I live in Brighton, Michigan with my husband, Tim, and my two boys, Sam and Jack. Sam is 11 and in fifth grade, and Jack is nine and in fourth grade. Let's see, Tim and I have been married 13 years.
Vanessa (01:29.429)
think you got it all. You got it all.
Teri (01:30.396)
Yeah. All right. How about you, Lauren?
Teri (01:36.146)
You
Wilhelmina (01:37.751)
you
Lauren (01:54.046)
So we're kind of right behind you guys in that. And then I have a private practice. I went from the hospital world. I started off my career at Beaumont Children's Hospital here in Michigan and transitioned into private practice. So I have a private practice also in Brighton and focus on child, adolescent, and adult evaluations mainly. I sprinkled in a little bit of therapy as well, but sort of my passion is evaluations.
And let's see, spare time. It doesn't feel like we have a lot of that lately with the ages and stages our kids are at, but we do actually really enjoy watching our kids play sports. We are all into golf as a family. So we do that a lot as a family activity, watching sports on the weekends as well. We're having some good actual sports to watch between the Lions and the Tigers here in Michigan. So it's a good time for us. I think that's it. What about you, Wilhelmina?
Teri (02:24.762)
You
Vanessa (02:24.917)
Absolutely.
Wilhelmina (02:49.695)
Yes, I like Terry live. I'm Wilhelmina. I also live in a suburb outside Chicago. I live in a town called Glen Ellen. I am married. My husband and I just celebrated our 19th wedding anniversary. And we have two kiddos, Maddie.
Lauren (03:08.75)
crazy.
Wilhelmina (03:13.905)
is 12. She just started sixth grade, so transitioned to middle school, which has been exciting. A treat, a treat. Yes, just last night. Uh-huh. We're starting to see that mood, the teen angsty mood creep up. And then we've got Griffin. He is nine and in fourth grade.
Vanessa (03:20.637)
A treat. You get the pleasure of having a middle schooler.
Teri (03:21.618)
Hmm.
Lauren (03:21.627)
Good word.
Wilhelmina (03:39.127)
I have a private practice in Oakbrook. It is my own private practice that I actually just in the last couple of years expanded. So it was just me and then I expanded to include more clinicians. I specialize in eating disorders. And then after becoming a mom, I really became interested in helping moms navigate parenthood and kind of all the things that come up in parenthood.
I have a lot of moms that find me because maybe they had struggled with an idiom disorder or maybe some of that was coming back. And so it was kind of a nice segue for me. When I am not working or doing all of the other mother parenting things, which like Lauren said, feels like a lot, I love to read. I have my own book club here that ladies of literati, we call ourselves LOL.
Lauren (04:26.382)
Thank
Vanessa (04:27.957)
you
Vanessa (04:35.061)
I don't know why I didn't know that's what it was called. I don't know why I didn't know that.
Lauren (04:37.042)
Yeah, I remember that on our last trip we were looking for something to take home to them like a shirt or something. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (04:38.551)
Yes, yes. And then I, this is not going to be a shock to anyone who has been listening to the podcast. I love all things movie. I always joke that if I hadn't been a psychologist, I would have been a film critic because I just, I like to watch them and talk about them and I just dive deep. And I, in addition to that, I like to run, do yoga.
Lauren (04:49.964)
Yeah
Wilhelmina (05:08.631)
friends, family, all the good stuff. So yeah, what about you Vanessa?
Vanessa (05:14.655)
So I am the only one who left the Midwest. I was born and raised in Chicago. I'm actually a first generation American. My parents are both, my parents both immigrated. My dad's Brazilian, my mom's Mexican. So I'm actually trilingual. And that's actually come in handy with assessment. So that's been great. So I speak Portuguese and Spanish and English. I have been married for 10 years. We had our 10 year today. My husband is Mark and we have one daughter. Yes. No, not today, in May. I said this year.
Wilhelmina (05:18.206)
Hehehehe
Teri (05:39.964)
today.
Lauren (05:40.504)
Ten years.
Wilhelmina (05:41.601)
today?
Lauren (05:43.338)
in May. Right.
Vanessa (05:44.305)
in May this year. No, it was in May. I have a daughter, Everly. She's seven and a half going on 18. I can't wait for the preteen years. And we also have a little for a baby, Lola. She's our dog. She's getting up there in age. She's our little old lady. And I also have a private practice. I'm actually a board certified pediatric neuropsychologist. So I specialized in neuropsychology.
Teri (05:55.346)
you
Lauren (05:56.844)
I swear to God.
Wilhelmina (05:57.259)
you
Vanessa (06:12.501)
So for many years, I worked in academic medical centers, so children's hospitals. did my training. I worked there for my first job, some in the Midwest, and then now on the East Coast where I live. I live in Maryland. And so for many years, I worked with children who presented with just various medical conditions, so brain injuries, epilepsy, congenital disorders, who were presenting with just various cognitive concerns. And then in 2019, I transitioned to private practice.
And so I currently see children, so elementary school age, middle school, and then even adolescents and young adults who are presenting with just various neurodevelopmental disorders. So ADHD is a big one that I get, also learning differences. And then I get a lot of complex cases where maybe the person's been working with a therapist and trying to figure out like, is this anxiety? Is this the tension? Is this depression? So that's what I do for work currently.
And then in my spare time, I'm also an avid reader, but I like fantasy fiction, which we all know. I mentioned my favorite genre. I also really enjoy traveling. So we all get together. We've mentioned before every year we go and travel somewhere. Usually we stay in the US, try a different city, although we've been on a cruise elsewhere. But I have another friend group where we travel internationally every year. And so we just came back from.
Columbia, were in Cartagena. So we were trying to pick a different place. So we really love to travel. I love spending time with my family. So going back to Chicago and visiting everyone and friends. I also work out. I'm a big workout weight training person. I'm also a big nerd and I love Halloween. So it's coming up. So we are starting YouTube. Is it up yet? Are you tube? Yeah. So we now have YouTube. So if you want to see us and watch our episodes, you can come to YouTube.
Wilhelmina (07:55.413)
Yes, it is. It is.
Vanessa (08:01.557)
but I'm a big Halloween fan, so I have a sweatshirt on. So if you want to see it, you'll have to come over to YouTube and check us out. I love Halloween, but my favorite thing about it is costumes. So like I always get really into costumes. I've won a couple of contests. You guys remember we went to that our first Halloween together, I made a Beetlejuice contest and I won. So we won the contest. So that's like a big one of mine. so yeah, so that's what I like to do.
Wilhelmina (08:17.966)
Beetlejuice.
Teri (08:19.142)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (08:21.258)
Needle juice.
Teri (08:22.737)
Yes.
Vanessa (08:27.317)
Great, so now that we've shared a bit about ourselves, it's time to jump into the four minute faves. All right, well, let me know, why don't you start us off today? What are you loving and sharing today?
Wilhelmina (08:40.097)
So I just watched over the weekend a documentary called Will and Harper, which is going to be our jumping off point for our discussion today. It is about friendship. It's with Will Ferrell and Harper Steel. Harper Steel is basically Will and Harper have been friends for 27 years. They started on SNL together.
Vanessa (09:08.714)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (09:09.367)
And Will Ferrell, so this was like early 90s. So when Will Ferrell started, then Harper, at that point, Andrew Steele was a writer. And at the time he was a writer for 13 years. Four of those were when he was a head writer of SNL. So after they both left, they maintained their friendship over all of these years. And during COVID, Harper sent Will an email and said, I...
am going to be transitioning to be a woman. And so part of the things that Harper liked to do was driving cross country and just going into dive bars and doing all the things that you do on a fun road trip. then, sports events, yeah, everything. she then was like, I don't think I can do that anymore. I don't feel I love this country.
Vanessa (09:56.213)
sports event.
Wilhelmina (10:07.221)
One of the things she says is, I'm not sure this country loves me back. so Will was like, why don't we do this together? And so they went on a 16 day cross country from starting in New York to ending in California. And it was such a delightful movie. It was a touching, was touching. It was like an ode to friendship and the way love, acceptance.
Lauren (10:11.086)
Thanks
Wilhelmina (10:36.951)
how friendships change and evolve, and also how we show up for each other during kind of challenging times. It was also really funny. The two of them are just, they're dynamic together. It was so funny. So there was some really, really cute, funny moments. But it also just highlighted how...
Lauren (10:47.72)
Yes, I can imagine.
Vanessa (10:48.989)
It was good. It was good, yeah.
Wilhelmina (10:58.731)
they were having the conversations, they were going deep, they were being vulnerable with each other. And it was just so clear that they had this really special friendship. it was just my husband and I both finished it and just thought that was really, really good. And
Lauren (11:15.288)
When did they do, when did they travel? You said the email was like COVID times. When were they actually traveling? Was that more recently? Yeah, okay. Okay.
Wilhelmina (11:21.097)
more recently, because there were no masks and things like that. Another just fun thing was that during the middle of their road trip, they called Kristen Wiig because they were like, we need a theme song. So they're like, who can we call for a good theme song? So they called Kristen Wiig, which is a hilarious conversation because they're like, so we need something that's jazzy. We want it to be touching, though. We want to make you cry. And it also has to be like a little country. She's like, so something jazzy.
Vanessa (11:21.801)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vanessa (11:32.067)
my gosh.
Wilhelmina (11:50.261)
touching will make you cry and also a little country. They're like, yeah, exactly. So by the time they get to the end of the movie, I was like, where's the song? And then of course the credits roll and she's playing the song, which now is getting Oscar buzz. Yeah, yeah. The song, Kristen Wiig's song.
Vanessa (11:59.497)
With the variant. Yeah.
Lauren (12:03.884)
I love it. The song, I love it.
Teri (12:04.047)
Noooo
Vanessa (12:05.267)
The documentary? the song. my God. You know what's funny? Somebody just watched that. And you know how I usually wear my big, glasses? So she, in this documentary, is wearing these big, thick glasses. And her hair is dark. At the end, it's dark, like my hair, but it's short. And someone was like, do you know that you look like? So I was wearing my glasses. They're like, you look like Kristen Wiig. I just watched this documentary. And I was like, they're like, have you ever heard that before? And I was like, I have never heard that before.
Wilhelmina (12:13.207)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (12:16.577)
Yes. Dark. Yes.
Lauren (12:27.47)
That's not funny.
Teri (12:31.13)
No.
Wilhelmina (12:33.397)
And what's funny is I have heard that a lot when she's a blonde because we're both very expressive with our hands and have like kind of the so I have gotten that a lot but I agree with the glasses and the dark hair. Yes.
Lauren (12:37.486)
Yeah.
Vanessa (12:41.587)
Yeah. Yeah, when I wear the glasses, she looks totally different than her usual self at the end. I watched it too last night. I agree. I thought it was a really sweet, funny moment. I thought it was a little long for me. was like, I don't know. But there were some just touching parts. I won't spoil it. But the gift at the end, well, mean, I literally was like, got teary-eyed. And then the visit to his sister. not only do they go and do these different
Wilhelmina (13:00.855)
Ugh. Ugh.
Vanessa (13:09.983)
places that she used to go to before, but they also stop along the way to visit family and friends. So that, those were my favorite parts actually. And so she goes to visit her sister and I just love it when, so they're retelling of when she told her that she was transitioning. And so she said, my favorite part thing that you said to me was that I've always wanted to have a sister. And I just like sobbed. I was like, this is the sweetest thing.
Wilhelmina (13:18.465)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (13:34.101)
Yeah. Yes.
Lauren (13:34.236)
Vanessa (13:38.239)
So it was just really touching. But I did think it was too long. That's my personal opinion. And were they doing ads for Dunkin' Donuts and the chips? Because I was like, think they were sponsored because it was like, was like, how many times did they talk about the Pringles? And it was odd. So I was like, I think Pringles and Dunkin' Donuts, because that was another one.
Teri (13:38.257)
Hmm.
Teri (13:42.406)
Okay.
Wilhelmina (13:42.743)
It's a little long. It's a little long.
Wilhelmina (13:48.567)
was a little confused. I said the same thing. I was like, is Pringles sponsored?
Lauren (13:55.246)
Probably, here's product placement and all those kinds of things. Yeah.
Vanessa (14:04.489)
sponsored this. that was the thing. But it's is a cute documentary. It's very heartfelt. So I think, yeah, I agree. was a one.
Lauren (14:05.516)
I would.
Wilhelmina (14:05.759)
Yes, yes.
Wilhelmina (14:10.807)
Well, and yeah, I agree with the sister. was so, she sent everyone, what? No, no, no, she sent everyone an email. And so the sister was like, I'm not sure, I wasn't sure how to respond, but I needed to respond quickly. And that's what she responded with like right away. So, and then I just wanted to say like kind of it's rated R. We had questioned whether we would have our kids watch it.
Teri (14:18.669)
Say, don't give anything else, don't throw anything away.
Vanessa (14:19.861)
You're gonna have way, yeah.
Vanessa (14:28.465)
That was a good one too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so good. Yeah, I definitely have to watch.
Wilhelmina (14:39.875)
And so I guess I just wanted to say for anyone interested, because I have someone who watched it and watched it first by herself with her husband, and then now is going to rewatch it with her teenage daughter, who's like a freshman in high school. So I would say that it is rated are mostly for like language, adult content, obviously, because they are talking about at times, depression, suicide, gender, you know, all of that stuff. So adult content, but
Vanessa (14:55.626)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (15:07.583)
I would say if your kid's in high school, it's such a good message that the rated R is, don't let that scare you off.
Vanessa (15:10.29)
I agree, yeah.
Vanessa (15:15.049)
Yeah, I think it, yeah, I see why they did, but it's also, I agree. Like if you have a high schooler and you watch it with them, I think that that would be like a okay thing to do. Yeah, agree. All right, Terry, what are you sharing and loving today?
Lauren (15:16.846)
You're both
Wilhelmina (15:21.771)
Yes. Yeah.
Teri (15:27.43)
Okay, I thought of something about five minutes before we logged on and I grabbed it out of my kid's bedroom. It is the Big Life Journal. I don't know if you have these for your kids. This is actually, each of my kids have one and I wanna say they started using them when Tommy was in preschool. So maybe when they were four and six respectively. And this is Danny, my nine-year-old second one.
Vanessa (15:32.245)
Perfect.
Vanessa (15:40.573)
No, I don't. Tell us about it.
Teri (15:56.074)
and they're really good stocking stuffers and they're so cute. So I'm not showing you any personal content, but there's little prompts and they can circle. it's today I learned, today I felt, today I'm proud of myself for just talk about something that didn't go as planned today. Next time I will, little positive messages at the bottom. we...
Lauren (16:05.838)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (16:05.911)
you
Wilhelmina (16:17.591)
Mm.
Teri (16:21.666)
have provided them as gifts and have not made it part of the routine. We sort of let them take the lead. And my kids don't do it every single night, but they do it more than they don't. And it's so cute and it's so sweet. And I think it's a very good entryway into journaling and offloading thoughts. I can remember when my seven year old could only write one or two words at a time when he was in preschool, he would even draw pictures. And so they sometimes when they are doing their nighttime routine,
Lauren (16:28.802)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (16:33.719)
Hmm.
Lauren (16:45.218)
Yeah.
Teri (16:49.884)
Teeth are brushed, pajamas are on, and they each have one on their nightstand. They'll climb into bed and before they read, they'll do it. And it's short, which I think is very appealing. They can just write like one word and circle it. So big fan of the Big Life Journal. I am not sponsored by them, I'm just a fan. I believe I got them on Amazon and highly recommend. Very good for kids, even starting age four five all the way up. And then there's some really cool ones for teenagers.
Wilhelmina (16:58.052)
I love that.
Lauren (17:02.872)
Yep.
Love that.
Vanessa (17:07.901)
Hahaha
Lauren (17:08.571)
Yeah.
Teri (17:18.896)
out there now if you ever click around on Amazon and good for adults.
Vanessa (17:19.295)
Yeah.
Lauren (17:19.598)
Honestly, it sounds like you could be great for adults. Right?
Vanessa (17:21.96)
Yeah, we've done that. We've done it with Ev. So not the same one, but we've done similar journaling with her and we started, yeah, about four or five. We also thought it was like just a nice way to like have conversation with her. So like, it's just a nice conversation starter. like we did, we haven't recently, but when she was a little bit younger, we'd have, you know, have her do it before bedtime as part of our bedtime routine. But it was just a nice way for us to be able to like start conversations with her about things that were going on in her day or her life. So.
Teri (17:32.784)
Yes. Yes.
Wilhelmina (17:33.131)
Yeah.
Lauren (17:33.891)
Yeah.
Vanessa (17:48.403)
And yeah, there was drawing in the beginning. She could just draw a picture. It would say, draw how you feel or tell us how you feel sort of thing. And same thing, now she will kind of just pick it up when she wants to. We don't do it as part of our night time routine, but that's a great one. All right, Lauren, what are you loving today?
Lauren (18:08.408)
So this is something that I got, my gosh, a year ago probably this week, because I think it was actually from Amazon Prime Days, but I just used it yesterday. The Bissell Little Green Machine. Do you guys know it? So it's a spot cleaner for upholstery, carpets, rugs, things like that. It's like a little green machine. And it's great. I I just used it yesterday because one of my kids walked in with mud on their shoes, and it just got on the rug in a way that
Wilhelmina (18:22.348)
No.
Lauren (18:36.994)
didn't come off right away, right? Gosh, it's compact. You can get it. It's a little machine. Yep, you plug it in. It's not no so it has like a solution, but it's not like a full on carpet cleaner. So it's spot cleaning. So it's great for upholstery. We've used it on a couple of lighter I'm like looking at a couch in the background a couple of lighter upholstery furniture.
Teri (18:40.87)
It's a machine.
Vanessa (18:45.141)
This looks like a mini, mini vacuum.
Vanessa (18:50.794)
gotcha.
Teri (18:53.176)
I need one of these. Our dog.
Wilhelmina (18:54.551)
I do too.
Lauren (19:05.634)
but rugs especially, like just a little spot cleaner. It's super easy to use and super easy to pull out and, you know, like store in your laundry room. It doesn't take up a lot of space. So I just happened to think of it yesterday and it's probably a good one for people to keep in mind for holidays coming up, know, prime days. All of the, you know, I think it's Target circle days this week also, right? So there's all of these different sales going on, but it's a great one. Highly recommend.
Teri (19:20.786)
Prime Days.
Wilhelmina (19:23.435)
Yeah. And Prime Days start tomorrow. Yeah.
Teri (19:23.698)
Yeah. Tomorrow.
Vanessa (19:23.935)
Yeah, 1089.
Lauren (19:35.064)
Vanessa, you started to tell us, I think, about your four-minute faith. Yeah.
Vanessa (19:38.261)
I did. So I'm going to actually tell you about, so today I'm going to share a hack. So this is something that I do when I'm shopping and I don't want to spend as much as the item is. So I follow a lot of influencers who have boutiques and just kind of like boutiques online. And a lot of times they'll have really cute things. And so they're often expensive and, or they'll have like, you have to spend a hundred to like ship. So I will often look at these boutiques and if I see something I like, I'll then go to Amazon.
And I will type in a description of whatever it is to see if I can find it cheaper. And then if I can't, then I'll also just Google. And sometimes Etsy will have these things or whatever. So I try to find the same thing at a cheaper option, which I often find. So a good example would be my sweatshirt today. So this sweatshirt with the dancing cowboy skeletons. I really loved it. And I was like, this will be so fun for Halloween. So I found it on this boutique. And it was $65. And I was like, I don't want to spend $65 on a sweatshirt I'm going to wear for a month.
Wilhelmina (20:25.985)
So cute, I love it.
Teri (20:26.364)
I like it.
Teri (20:36.401)
with cowboy skeletons on it.
Lauren (20:37.304)
Right. Right.
Vanessa (20:38.005)
with Cowboy Skeletons. Exactly. So content and cost. then I also, then they wanted me to spend a hundred to get free shipping. So then I was like, well, then I have to buy more stuff that I don't need right now. So I went to Amazon and I typed in Cowboy Skeleton sweatshirt. And guess how much I paid for it? $25. It was $25. It's the same exact sweatshirt.
Wilhelmina (20:43.031)
You
Wilhelmina (20:54.929)
Hahaha!
Lauren (20:55.437)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (20:58.295)
my gosh.
Lauren (20:58.35)
How am I? I love it!
Vanessa (21:03.849)
And then of course it's Amazon, so it was free. So I paid $25 for my dancing skeleton cowboys. So I do this all the time. have to not tell you, I cannot tell you how many times I've gotten like an awesome deal on something that was selling at a boutique for like way more than like Amazon has it. Now, sometimes the quality is like meh, so it's probably not the same, but more times than not, I can find the same exact thing for less on Amazon or even like Walmart or like just a quick Google search.
Wilhelmina (21:04.183)
Lauren (21:04.876)
You know? Yeah.
Wilhelmina (21:10.228)
Love it.
Lauren (21:27.896)
I was going to say, do you know what I will use is I'll take a screenshot of the expensive item and use Google Lens because then they'll find any site that has it. So not just Amazon. I mean, and if it's on Amazon, they'll link it. But Google Lens gives you all the places that have the item. Not that we don't support small businesses, but it is super helpful.
Teri (21:33.138)
Vanessa (21:33.545)
and go search for it.
Vanessa (21:37.653)
Yeah.
Vanessa (21:44.611)
that's a good idea. Exactly. Like, I'm not trying to not say. And like I said, sometimes I go to actually find it cheaper on Etsy, which are small businesses. They're like selling the same thing. yeah, so I do support. But when I find something like this that I don't really need, that I just want, like that's kind of fun, then I try to find it cheaper. So that's my hack for today. And if you're following us on Instagram, you may notice that we are sharing the links to all of our faves if there is a link.
Wilhelmina (21:47.104)
No, no.
Lauren (21:53.058)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, with your small business, Right, all right. I love that. Right.
Wilhelmina (21:54.325)
Yep. Yes.
Wilhelmina (22:01.109)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (22:04.237)
I love you.
Vanessa (22:11.285)
So I will share a link of my skeleton sweatshirt for anybody who is wanting dancing cowboys. Cool. So now we finished our four minute phase. So let's get back to today's topic. So we're gonna be talking about friendships in adulthood. So as we mentioned earlier, the concept of this came from the documentary that Wilhelmina talked about called Will and Harper, which was released on the 27th, this last month, just a few days ago, it's on Netflix.
Wilhelmina (22:13.707)
Hey!
Lauren (22:14.541)
Yes.
Vanessa (22:37.749)
creating quite a buzz. When we learned about this documentary, it made us think about our own friendship with each other, as well as how our friendships with each other have changed and just our friendships in general, like how those have changed over time and how our experiences that we've had in life. So moving away out of state, so now our friendship is long distance, having babies, getting married.
going through a divorce, the loss of a parent, how we've all supported each other during these times and how that's kind of changed our relationship. And then also the relationships with our other friends. We've also had lots of conversations about the challenges of finding and making new friends as adults, as well as the sadness and the difficulty we experience when we lose a friendship or when a friendship just kind of...
you know, falls apart a bit, you you just kind of distance yourself from someone. So maybe not entirely lose the friendship, but just aren't as close as you used to be. So you're kind of outgrowing your friendship. So let's start off with a question. So outside of our current friend group here, where are your current friends from? Like the people you would say you spend the most amount of time with. And this is obviously going to be different because like, Terry, you're still in Chicago where you grew up. So like you still have lots of friends that you your childhood friends, right?
Teri (23:49.861)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (23:53.173)
Whereas I'm now on the East Coast. So for me, most of my friends that I spend like, you know, the day to day group of friends that I have are actually from my husband. So my husband works for this large company here and he worked for them back from where he is in Florida. And a lot of people kind of migrated to Maryland where we live because this is where the company is based from. So as you kind of moved up in the company, this is where come. So a lot of his friends from Florida have actually moved here. And so my kind of friend group right now is really made up of
a lot of his friends and their wives. those are the people we hang out the most with. So how about you guys? Who's your kind of like friend group? Where are they from?
Wilhelmina (24:32.951)
So this is Wilhelmina. Most of my friends right now are related to Glen Ellyn where I live. And it's a small town. And so they have a lot of great ways to connect with people when you first move. So I joined originally like the Glen Ellyn Book Club. I met a lot of my really close friends through that and then kind of friends of friends. So most of my close friends around
live near me, live in the same town. They're not necessarily connected to my kids, but sometimes they are and often our kids play together and have fun. But really I made them myself through the social gatherings and then friends of friends. those are primarily the people I spend the most day-to-day friendship time with.
Teri (25:27.024)
I would, so for me, like Vanessa mentioned, I am from the Chicago burbs, the area. So I still am lucky to have a couple of my closest long-term friends who I've been friends with since I was young. So shout out to Steph and Jen. And then currently I do hang with Wilhelmina sometimes. boy, our two sons, our two sons are buddies, which is kind of cool that worked out. And Wilhelmina, but.
Lauren (25:42.924)
Hmm.
Vanessa (25:42.965)
Thank
Wilhelmina (25:47.851)
Yes, I was going to say that. I was like, and Terry.
Lauren (25:48.791)
images.
Teri (25:56.332)
mainly school, other school parents. So my kids go to a small private school. It's a tight knit community and we're in a larger suburb. We live in Oak Park. So there is a ton of schools, both private and public in the area. So the neighborhood we live in is pretty tight knit as well as the school community. So it's a lot of parents of my kids' friends or other school parents. Shout out to Chargers, Charger parents. And a lot of
Vanessa (26:22.197)
You
Lauren (26:22.552)
Mm-hmm
Teri (26:24.87)
both casual and planned get togethers. I've actually done a girls trip with some of the moms. My husband has done, they have a second guys trip coming up in December with the dads. So everybody, it's just a really good community, good people, and everybody gels real easy. So in addition to my longer term friendships on a day to day, it's my school parent friends.
Lauren (26:48.204)
I think I'm pretty much the same. My kids also go to a small private school. And so the, you know, the mom group, the friends that have developed from the kids relationships because it is such a sort of close knit community. And I think the other thing is there's shared values, right? And so it just makes it easier to develop those relationships in adulthood. And then I've got the the fortunate
situation of a number of the school people also belong to the country club we belong to. And so there's like an even smaller circle that develops, which is wonderful of just really shared interests. So again, sort of the values and the interests when everything aligns, you end up being able to have that time that you need to actually have friendships in adulthood, because you're literally crossing paths on a day to day basis.
And then I would say the other thing is I've been really, really fortunate as an adult to become friends with my family. So I have two sisters and my mom and my dad. Even my husband and dad are really good friends. And I've got aunts and uncles nearby and cousins. And I would say that, yes, while we are family first, I have been incredibly fortunate to be able to call them friends as well. And again, I think probably the common thread for me, but also for all of you in talking is that
these adult friendships develop, but then maintain and sustain because we have shared values with the people that we're spending time with. Because as we were talking about earlier, with the ages and stages that we're all in right now, and I think this is probably true, I don't know, it'd be interesting to ask some of our parents, like older generations and things like that, but I think it's probably true just as you go through adulthood that the relationships become more meaningful, but you also have
Wilhelmina (28:15.295)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (28:37.186)
perhaps less opportunity and time to spend. And so you have to have those crossovers, those shared values to be able to make it meaningful and worthwhile. Is that fair?
Teri (28:39.626)
100%.
Wilhelmina (28:43.287)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (28:47.654)
We also, yeah, absolutely. I think you also have like different levels of friendships, right? Like we, yeah, so we passed around an article between us that was talking about like being good friends. Initially I was like laughing and I was like, well, I'm a terrible friend.
Wilhelmina (28:52.567)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (28:52.718)
Yeah, the different circles.
Vanessa (29:01.493)
all these things that are listed in there. Like to be a good friend, you gotta do all these things. And I think we have friends to different levels, right? Like some of the people that you meet that are your kids' friends, parents, like you say hello, maybe you spend time with, but they're not the friends you're gonna go to when you're having a hard day, right? You're not gonna share that information to them. So you have those different levels of friendship. then like you said, once you get older, you kind of then that...
Lauren (29:01.825)
Teri (29:19.346)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (29:30.229)
close friend group really does tend to get smaller because of time, but I also think because of your shared values, like you said. And I think, I don't know, at least for me, I feel like I have less tolerance for nonsense as I've gotten older. You know, you just don't, you just have less tolerance for like people who may not share the same values as you or who don't value your friendship the way you want the friendship to be valued.
Teri (29:33.072)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (29:33.357)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (29:42.653)
huh. huh.
Teri (29:44.529)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (29:56.735)
So that circle does get smaller. But I think it's okay to have those different types of friendships. yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:03.841)
Absolutely.
Lauren (30:04.43)
Of course. Yeah.
Teri (30:05.266)
And to piggyback on shared values and friendships, I think there is the component of expectations, something that I've encountered with some historical friendships, where as people progress and mature and get older and have different life events, if it's marriage and kids and where you live and career paths, et cetera, people's expectations change.
Wilhelmina (30:15.915)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (30:16.275)
Okay.
Teri (30:34.874)
And sometimes those expectations are verbalized. Sometimes they're implied. Many times people think that others are mind readers and they will know the expectations. But sometimes even when the expectations are put out there, they might not align with your expectations and what you're looking for in a particular friendship at a certain stage of life. And that's okay. Something that I encountered personally is that a person had a certain set of expectations, which they were entitled to.
Lauren (30:43.95)
Right.
Vanessa (30:51.477)
Great.
Wilhelmina (30:52.193)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (30:58.136)
Right.
Wilhelmina (30:58.166)
You
Teri (31:04.69)
those are completely valid. And at the same time, those were not expectations or values for the friendship that I shared. And I'm also entitled to hold those. And sometimes those being held simultaneously are compatible in to some degree. And sometimes they're very incompatible. And it's just what it is. And I think that is somewhat of a natural progression of certain types of friendships and relationships that happens.
over time and it's probably more of an organic process than we even realize that expectations can shift. But it's hard because I think one person might hold one set and the other person holds another set of expectations and values and maybe for many years they were compatible and then things might change over time.
Wilhelmina (31:38.935)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (31:55.873)
Well, you I think what you're also talking about is having the conversations. A lot of, yeah, I listened to this, it wasn't a podcast, it was an NPR segment on friendship. And they were talking about how it's so normal for friendships to change, especially long-term friendships. And they were talking about this like relationship triangle where you have like vulnerability, consistency and positivity of friendship. And sort of like if something's off,
Vanessa (32:00.853)
communication.
Wilhelmina (32:25.321)
It might be one of those. And if it's off, it's fine. But you probably need to talk about it. And so one of the things they said, which I thought was interesting, was if you plan on having a friendship with someone for a long time, get comfortable having some kind of conflict conversations or like having uncomfortable conversations. because otherwise, if you're just not talking about it, then it'll for sure
Teri (32:26.738)
you
Wilhelmina (32:54.571)
build up resentment, things like that, and have faith that your friendship can have those conversations. And you're right, like Terry, sometimes that conversation would be like, this isn't gonna work right now. Yeah, like this is the end. And I will say that I have had more of those conversations recently in the last couple of years with friendships where there's been misunderstandings or I had a friend recently come up and say, like, I feel like things are like off with us and we're...
Vanessa (33:03.793)
The end, yeah.
Teri (33:05.328)
Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (33:24.011)
Were they hard conversations? Absolutely. But they, I came out of them and I think we came out of them as friends, like stronger because we actually cared enough to have the tough conversations. And I think we don't ever talk about conflict with friends. We talk about conflict with your spouse. You talk about conflict with your family, but you don't talk about conflict with friends. And so I sometimes think, yes, at this age and people I think thinks, yes, teenagers conflict all the time, right? But like,
Teri (33:45.754)
at this age. Yeah.
Vanessa (33:51.615)
Yeah, there's this idea that friendship means there is no because your friends there is no conflict and that's not correct. Yeah, yeah
Wilhelmina (33:55.787)
You're right! Right!
Teri (33:56.85)
It's easy. It's supposed to be easy.
Wilhelmina (33:59.691)
Right, but really the friendships that are the most significant to us, the ones that we value, are the ones that we share that vulnerability and that intimacy and the ones that we're gonna have the conflict with and that's okay and that's normal.
Vanessa (34:14.389)
Yeah. And conflict doesn't necessarily need to be like an argument, right? Like, so when we say conflict, so I can think of something is right. So I will give us a great example. I have a friend that I made here. We've now been friends for, my gosh, over 10 years. I love her. There was something that she was requiring her friends to do because it was something that meant a lot to her, but it made me feel uncomfortable. And I kept doing it because I knew this made her feel good.
Lauren (34:14.434)
Right. Right.
Teri (34:18.098)
You
Wilhelmina (34:18.185)
No! No!
Lauren (34:18.7)
No, just that you're not gelling. Right? Yeah.
Vanessa (34:42.898)
And, but I, but it was making me uncomfortable. And I finally was like, you know, if, if we're such good friends, I should be able to go to this person and say, I don't feel comfortable doing this. And so I brought it up and I was like, look, I totally know why, where this is coming from. I know this means a lot to you, but this makes me feel uncomfortable. This is my kind of view on this. And I'm so glad I did because she was like, my gosh, I don't want anyone to feel that way.
Wilhelmina (35:09.687)
you
Vanessa (35:10.309)
I said, okay, that's great. And then I was like, good. But I had other people in my life were like, I can't believe that you said something, you know, that's so mean, because it wasn't like a big deal. Like, but it was making me uncomfortable. And so she and I talked it out. And I was like, well, I'm so glad I did because she was so understanding. And then now we're both like, we're good. Like it wasn't a big deal. But I did have people in my life who were like, you're mean, can't you just do it because it makes them feel good. And I'm like, I'm supposed to do something that makes them feel good. But I feel like
Wilhelmina (35:18.261)
You
Teri (35:18.426)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (35:31.555)
Yeah.
Teri (35:39.345)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (35:39.507)
it's not feeling me feel good. So you can't do that because then the resentment will start. At some point, I'm sure I would have been like, what? I don't want it, you know, like that resentment. And that would have had a negative impact on our relationship. So it doesn't even have to be a conflict. could just be something small that isn't something you want. And you should be able to say, hey, how can we come up with like a solution to this? Which she and I did. So like we found a way to kind of, you know, where we both feel good about this interaction that we have.
Wilhelmina (35:42.54)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (36:02.582)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (36:09.025)
Well, and I think, yeah, conflict, yes, yes. I was going to say conflict. I'm saying conflict. And really what I mean is the difficult conversations and bringing things up when you are feeling it and just talking about it as opposed to like letting it fester. And I think that conflict can be the internal conflict of that feeling ick or the uncomfortable discussion that you might have to have. So yeah, conflict is a very broad. It doesn't mean you guys are like actively fighting or, know, duking it out.
Lauren (36:09.102)
Right, and to your point, it's gonna come out.
Vanessa (36:23.283)
Yes, that's the worst.
Vanessa (36:33.491)
Absolutely. Right.
Teri (36:34.898)
Okay. And to parallel that, Vanessa touched on this where she said, time is precious and there's only so much spare time we have. There's only so much leisure time we have. And you better want to be with the person you want to be with and doing the activity you want to do. And I have become, I've always been relatively transparent, I think with my friends. You guys can probably vouch for that. I think I become even more so where I'll say,
Wilhelmina (36:42.337)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (36:59.253)
Mm-hmm. You have.
Teri (37:04.838)
I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. So what if we go do this instead? Or you want to meet for dinner? What about lunch? Because I looked at my schedule and there really isn't any good evenings in the next three weeks that work for me. So we can keep looking past that. Because you guys know, planning, even Wilhelmina and I planning to grab lunch together quickly. Months, months, it's months. We plan our girls trips.
Wilhelmina (37:07.307)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (37:28.619)
months ahead of time.
Lauren (37:29.838)
It is.
Vanessa (37:30.801)
yeah, yeah. Months in advance. This podcast was months in the planning before anyone heard us, we published anything.
Teri (37:33.254)
almost a year in advance, right? yes. Yes. To have schedules aligned for women who have school-age children and careers is very challenging. Once you throw in...
Lauren (37:34.806)
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Wilhelmina (37:35.051)
Yeah, yeah. yeah, just months.
Wilhelmina (37:51.423)
Yeah, it's TME, time, money, energy. All of those are limited and you have to figure out where you're putting, yes, yep.
Lauren (37:52.322)
this.
Vanessa (37:53.343)
Yeah.
Lauren (37:59.32)
which one you're gonna let vary, right? Yeah.
Vanessa (38:01.053)
Yeah. Yeah. Terry, you brought up a good thing about how you're like, you know how I am? Like, you know, I'm just going to say it like it is. And I just had a conversation with my friend who came in town this weekend, and she was telling me about another friend said to her, you know, you're not my friend that I go to when I need like warm and fuzzy. Like, you're my friend that I go to when I need like, OK, give it to me like how it is. And I laughed and I said, well, I agree with her. That is the friend that you are. You know, and I thought about myself and I said, you know, I think I'm kind of like that, too. You know, I we all can be.
Wilhelmina (38:17.111)
you
Lauren (38:24.386)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (38:24.427)
Hahaha.
Vanessa (38:30.557)
all kind of right, we can all be, know, like my stepmom passed away and you guys were like so great and supportive of that. And so like, obviously we can all be all the things, but we have our friends that we go to when we want something specific, right? You know, when we want the friend to just listen and tell us that we're going to be okay, you know, we go to the certain friend, we want the friend who's going to be like, snap out of it.
Lauren (38:44.078)
Of course. Yes.
Lauren (38:49.666)
Yeah. Well.
Vanessa (38:53.813)
put your dancing shoes on, we're going out tonight. You know what friend that is, right? And we all need all of these kinds of friends in our lives. At least I think we do. We need the friend who's gonna just snuggle and hug us and cuddle us and tell us everything's gonna be okay. And we need those other friends who are gonna, we know those are the friends we're gonna call and we're like, got a body to bury. They're like, let's do it, come on, I got my shovel. Yeah, so like, yeah, so you know who you're gonna call.
Lauren (38:55.629)
All
Wilhelmina (38:57.249)
Yes!
Teri (39:01.01)
Mm-mm.
Lauren (39:16.398)
Right.
Wilhelmina (39:16.799)
I know. I have those friends. I have those friends. Yeah. I know who I'm going to call.
Teri (39:16.902)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (39:22.581)
I think it's also about knowing your friends playing different important roles in your life, knowing who to go for what can also help with some of avoiding that conflict, right? You can't keep going to a friend who can't give you what you're looking for if that's not who they are. So being respectful of not just your time, but also knowing what friends can give you what you need is also really important.
Lauren (39:25.262)
playing different roles. Yeah.
Lauren (39:37.73)
what you need.
Lauren (39:48.738)
And I also don't think it has to be like an end point if that person in your life at that time is not that person. You can just move them to an outer circle. I don't know if it was in graduate school or if it was something that I learned along the way from a mentor or something like that, the, like the visual, the exercise of the visual of putting different relationships, you've got the circle that's closest to you and then moving them out. Was it Bob?
Wilhelmina (39:52.087)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (39:57.835)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (40:05.931)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (40:10.263)
Was that Bob?
Teri (40:11.036)
That was Denise Tompkins at Lyndon Oaks.
Wilhelmina (40:14.935)
Okay.
Lauren (40:15.788)
Was it really? Okay. Well, it was a wonderful visual. I was going to say, you could have told me it was somebody from graduate school also, but it's a great visual. And I still use it all the time in my practice of, for both family and friends, because I think the conversation was related to family relationships and how sometimes family isn't your closest circle and that's okay. You can put them out here. And I think, I think any relationship can work the same way. And there's, there's reasons and seasons where some people are going to be like this.
Vanessa (40:16.954)
Hahaha!
Wilhelmina (40:18.252)
I've learned it too. So yeah, it is.
Vanessa (40:44.885)
Absolutely.
Lauren (40:45.198)
and you're texting all the time or you're calling them or you're meeting with them because you're in this stage. And so you would put them in your number one circle. And there's some people that you don't necessarily have conflict with, but they're just in that three or four, right? And then if you can have that kind of mentality of my circles can go in and out, right? Like, what's that ball, right? That like little ball that kids play with that goes in and out.
Wilhelmina (40:45.259)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (40:53.494)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (41:04.609)
Mm-hmm. Love that. Yeah.
Teri (41:05.017)
Hmm.
Lauren (41:10.382)
your circles can go in and out and they can shift as needed. It's going to be much more helpful for you as well as those people because to your point, Vanessa or Terry, you can't be all the things all the time, right? And so if you know that and you can kind of shift your circles, it's helpful to know who you need in this moment for this thing. And it can really, I think, promote and maintain those relationships.
Vanessa (41:30.057)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (41:36.661)
I love that reasons and seasons. That's great. I love that.
Lauren (41:39.054)
Yes, I think it's from my mom. I think I gotta give my mom credit for that one.
Vanessa (41:39.263)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Teri (41:39.366)
There's that quote that they say, friends can be around for a reason, a season or a lifetime is the version that I've heard.
Lauren (41:47.126)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (41:47.511)
No.
Vanessa (41:47.637)
more than. Yeah, I recently went home to Chicago and saw two of my friends. Hi, Annie. Hi, Steph, that I haven't seen in forever. you know, it's just you know, when you have a really good friendship, it's because like you've not seen these people in forever. And it's in there's no like you didn't text. Like, it's just it's all good. Pick up and you're like, hey, how's life? What are you doing? How's it going? You know, and I love those friendships and having moved a ton, you know, just
Lauren (42:06.444)
picks right back up.
Vanessa (42:15.935)
through internship, fellowship, and then now that I live on the East Coast, like I have friends kind of all over the place. And those are some of my favorite friendships, the ones that I know, like I don't have to text you every day. I don't have to call you every day. And if I do need, know, if there's something that comes up and I know that I can call you or text you and you're gonna, it's not gonna be like, I haven't heard from you. You know, it's just like, cool, what do you need? Or what's the plan?
Wilhelmina (42:23.959)
Thanks
Lauren (42:40.236)
Right. good, you're counting. wonderful. Well, we're done.
Vanessa (42:40.691)
Right, yeah, one of that. like, And I'm out. But yeah, I mean, I we've all like, I don't know, I don't know if I can think of any like major, like not in my adulthood, or like major kind of like, like, this is kind of thing. And I know what happens. But I definitely have people that like, I don't, you know, that I'm not close to, and I don't, and I'm okay with that. Like I'm
Wilhelmina (42:41.405)
You
Teri (42:42.706)
Like, well, this friendship is done.
Wilhelmina (42:47.703)
Yeah!
Teri (42:51.249)
Yeah.
Lauren (42:51.746)
Right.
Wilhelmina (42:53.015)
You
Lauren (43:07.746)
And that's okay. Yeah.
Vanessa (43:09.181)
Like I just, and I don't think it will ever come back. You I don't think they'll ever be the person where I'm texting, hey, I'm in town, you know, sort of thing. And I think that's okay. That's just part of life.
Teri (43:17.689)
It's part of the evolution.
Lauren (43:18.286)
I live in the town that, yeah, I live in the town I went to high school in. And because it's a small community and because I, you know, like the school as well as the club that we belong to, I crossed paths with people I was friends with in high school, like day to day friends and spent time with. And it is not, it is like they are in a different stage of life than I am. And it's super friendly and it's not like a conflict. It's just like a, right, like you're just, you're over here. You're out in this side of the circle.
Wilhelmina (43:36.683)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (43:48.142)
It's all good. Yeah.
Vanessa (43:48.181)
And then my change. Any other thoughts on today's
Lauren (43:54.956)
I think you guys are those friends, right, that we can pick back up the second we see each other at the airport every year, right? Yeah.
Vanessa (43:59.381)
Although we do, feel like we, I feel like we're a little bit of a, cause we, we do, we're data free friends cause we like, we're on the thread together and we're always talking to each other.
Wilhelmina (43:59.659)
absolutely.
Teri (44:00.37)
100%.
Lauren (44:04.578)
We're day-to-day friends though too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (44:09.318)
Yeah, there's a lot of texting.
Wilhelmina (44:09.909)
Yeah, I always talk about the like, who do you have pinned on your phone? And it's funny because I feel like you have like different kinds of people. So I have people that are like, I have one person pinned. I'm like, I don't have enough places to put the pins. But you guys are like, always right at the top. We call ourselves the dark force. And so like the dark force thread, the dark force. Woohoo!
Lauren (44:14.604)
Uh-huh.
Teri (44:24.923)
in.
Vanessa (44:31.701)
Star Force.
Lauren (44:33.196)
My kids always laugh when the texts start going in the car because my phone's connected to the car. So trust me, I turn them off. But when they start going, they're like, your friends are texting. What's going on? Right? It's either you guys or the mom's group from school. so yeah, they enjoy seeing that. So yes, we are that day-to-day conversation.
Vanessa (44:37.621)
Yeah, Dark Force.
Wilhelmina (44:38.593)
Teri (44:43.794)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (44:53.601)
Can I just share, because Terry just reminded me of when she did her hand gesture, that this funny story with the four of us, how long ago was this we got the temporary tattoo? How long ago was this? Who asked? OK, so years ago. But on the last night there, Lauren did not do it. But she was there. She was there with us. And we decided, let's get temporary tattoos of.
Lauren (44:59.758)
What?
Vanessa (45:06.227)
that was Key West.
Lauren (45:06.488)
Now that was key-waas.
Lauren (45:11.616)
I didn't do it. I'm sick. It's coming off tomorrow. I was there. I watched. We took pictures.
Wilhelmina (45:22.525)
DF for Dark Force. And it was last night.
Vanessa (45:24.853)
We'll have to share that story another time, but there's a reason why we call ourselves the Dark Force.
Teri (45:27.706)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (45:28.319)
Yes, but we got him on our neck and we were like, ha ha ha. We just like, we're joking. We were sending pictures to our family, like, ha ha, we got a tattoo. And then I came home and my one friend was like, you know what DF means, right? And I was like, yeah, dark forest. She's like, it also means something else. And then she told me, and I'm not going to say what it is. We're just going to leave it. But then I was like, well, now I just have to wear my hair down until this thing fades. Because otherwise I'm at the gym with this.
Lauren (45:28.846)
that's right, yeah, yeah.
Teri (45:49.244)
We'll leave it.
Teri (45:55.686)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (45:57.953)
just huge thing on my neck. was like, maybe we have to think of a different lettering for our yes.
Lauren (46:03.264)
logo.
Vanessa (46:06.597)
All right. Yes, another day. Thank you for joining us today. Please join us next time on the shrink down-where psychology meets pop culture.
Lauren (46:06.904)
Another story for another day.
Wilhelmina (46:07.297)
Anyway, yes.