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Faith isn't meant to stay inside the four walls of the church. Join us as we explore the intersection of faith and politics, tackle the conversations many churches avoid, and discuss why it's more important than ever for Christians to be informed, engaged, and rooted in biblical truth as they navigate today's culture.
I'm Vince Torres. Most of my life, I have spent living at the intersection of both faith and politics, and one of my greatest frustrations and concerns has been how Christians have been encouraged and pushed to disengage from civic life and from our politics. So what I wanna do over the course of this episode and everyone that follows is have some very candid conversations with pastors and faith leaders on some of the most pressing issues of our day, not so that the church gets more political, but so that the church is more biblical in how it approaches our politics. Enjoy this show. Pastor Carlos Montoya, my brother, my friend, my mentor, my pastor, meant so good to be with you this morning and so glad to be filming this.
Vince Torres:I am super excited. The whole concept, even just for this podcast, has been based on the conversations that that you and I get to have in your office on a regular basis, which I'm so thankful for, in which I'll just come in, sit in your office, and we'll just talk through scripture. We'll talk theology. We talk politics. But, you know, in in this conversation today, I I wanna get to something that I know we're both passionate about, and that is where our faith and our politics intersect.
Vince Torres:And it's something that we don't always, like, hear a lot of folks talking about, especially pastors. And so that's my hope and prayer for this time. But before we get there, I just wanna give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to those of us that are listening in and maybe don't know who you are. Mhmm. And tell us a little bit about our church Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And how long you've been pastoring, and and we'll take it from there.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:So Carlos Montoya, born and raised in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Come from a family that helped found Santa Fe and some of the original settlers of that. It... It's pretty cool doing the history and all that. But about 1992, gave my life to Jesus Christ and at the same time met the love of my life, Yvette.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Got married two years later, little little little less than two years later, have five beautiful kids, and have spent our life in Santa Fe. And to be honest, felt the call of God since I was a kid. Not being a Christian, though, I remember back, like, in second grade, third grade when they're, you know, hey. What do you wanna be when you grow up? And you have the little report.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I wanna be a fireman, and I wanna be a police officer, and I wanna be an astronaut. I remember going back to do that assignment, and deep down inside of me, I thought I have to be a priest. Like, I I thought I was gonna be a priest. No one told me I needed to be a priest, but just that's the context that came from. I didn't wanna be a priest, but so I put down...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I think I put down an astronaut or something like that. But I remember back since then, like, there was this inside of me, I need to serve God Yeah. In some way. So fast forward, married, following Jesus, and that call just got stronger and stronger until in about 1996, pastor asked me to teach youth group. And so I had been serving with the youth just on the side, faithful, setting up chairs, doing that stuff, and then, hey, we want you to teach while I go to Israel.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And you could say the rest is his story. Right? Because from there, it just... God just kept opening doors and tight ablaze in 2004. And by God's grace, we're coming up on twenty three years here in January.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And it's just been amazing. And it's funny because I felt called by God, but I can't blame God for this, but I wanted to serve in some cool, hip city. And... But that's one of the things that God also made clear is, like, calling you to this state, to this city. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I wanna see... And I just have a burden for the people of New Mexico, and so that's... I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else.
Vince Torres:I know we've we've talked about this, and and and you've even shared this with our church recently, but I know when you started Blaze, the Lord was really, really emphasizing to you the importance of reaching the men of Santa Fe. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about that and why... Clearly clearly, our our wives, our our ladies are just as important, but why the focus on on men? Why do you think the Lord, like, led you to that as being a primary part of your mission?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And, again, this is prior to Pew Research and all the stuff that we have now and all the analytics that we have access to now. But, again, so back in 2003 when God began to give me this clear vision to plant a church and to and and to affect Santa Fe and New Mexico with the gospel, one of the things that was made clear, like, I mean, from the get go, is to reach the men. As, again, as I looked at our city and as I looked at our our state even, we just have a record of men behaving poorly. Yeah. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And we celebrate all the wrong things. Right? We all have that uncle who's been in jail, in and out of jail, and he's hiding from the cops at grandma's house and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I knew that if we could reach the men, our culture would change. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? Because I noticed, like, and then going to church, I don't mean this in a bad way, but church was filled with predominantly more women than men.
Vince Torres:Yeah. Still is. Still is.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And we know that. And to this day, women serve more predominantly in church than men do. And men are happy to let them do that. But I knew, again, this question I began to ask, man, and here's where it really came down to. So my mom became a Christian first.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:My dad an ironworker. And there's so many stories behind that. But my dad was hardcore anti Christian. My mom started a Bible study in our house, and my dad would mock the men and the women coming in and out of our house Mhmm. Like to their face.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. And my dad being an ironworker and my dad's reputation before, no one said anything to him. And so... Well, one day, my dad was in the Bible study. And I'm like, what's going on with my dad?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And my dad became a Christian. And then when my dad became a Christian and I saw the effect that Jesus had on my dad, that got me to go, hey. What's going on in my life? Mhmm. And it's really part of that whole story of me coming to Christ was my dad truly walking after Jesus and seeing my dad legitimately change.
Vince Torres:Wow.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so I knew if, man, we could reach these men, we could reach these families, we could reach our neighborhoods, we could reach our city.
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so, yeah. So, literally, that's... God began to say, hey. We're gonna go after the men, and we wanna change our culture. This is how we do it.
Vince Torres:That's awesome. That's awesome. So we we were actually just having a little bit of a conversation about this on the drive down and talking about how when we look at the church in America today, the the engagement, specifically on cultural issues... We call them political issues, but they're they're cultural issues, and fundamentally, we would we would say they're biblical issues.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Biblical issues.
Vince Torres:Let's let's start to talk a little bit about where where we've missed it. And like we were talking about earlier, clearly, the state, the government, the politicians, they have a role to play in in in in why we are where we are, but but so does the church Mhmm. As as one of the most important institutions, clearly, God... The most important institution that God ever established. But even as it relates to our society, very, very important.
Vince Torres:Let's start to talk about where where have we missed it, and why why do you think, in general, the church and pastors have been so hesitant to take the light of the gospel, to take the light of scripture, to take the truth of scripture into the darkness and engage on these pressing issues that we say are very important to us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. This is one of those issues that I think has many layers. Mhmm. But I think where it really starts, and I think at the at the base of all of this, starts really with the Jesus movement, which is a great movement. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I mean, we're all here. Probably the majority of us here today are a result of someone being saved through the Jesus movement. Yeah. And, again, me, my my family, that's a direct deal, I thank God for it. But one of the things that came out and through the Jesus movement is this idea is I'm just gonna preach Jesus.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. I'm just gonna talk about Jesus, and I'm just gonna love Jesus, which is great and fine and wonderful. But, again, missing it with this idea that we're gonna abdicate any kind of responsibility to culture. Right? If I just talk about Jesus, then then you guys will handle all of this.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And and, again, I think it also then... We started buying into the lie of this whole idea of separation church and state, which we know that that was a letter written going, hey, we're trying to protect the church from the state, not the state from the church. Yeah. And so we we kind of moved out of those those realms as, hey, you you don't us, and we'll just be good model citizens. And that this, again, this lie that, hey, as Christians, we should be people that everybody loves.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? And and and and we should live in such a way that we'd be winsome. And so... And now we're gonna talk about Jesus and how awesome he is and how he's changed and transformed my life, all good things, But then not going, okay. When g...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Like, in order to talk about Jesus in a in a robust way, in a way that's actually meaningful, we gotta talk about how Jesus... Again, we wanna use a word that is thrown around the culture a lot, how he intersects with our finances, with our politics, with our home lives, with our communities. I mean, what... How does this make a difference in our actual community? Yes.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? Because that's what he came to do. He wasn't theoretical. Right? He said, I came to seek and save that which is lost.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yes. Right? Not not just, hey, point them out. And so I think that's where we started to miss it. We're just like, hey, we're just gonna love people, and if we just show everybody how nice we are, maybe everybody wanna be nice and things will change instead of going, hey, Jesus spoke, I mean, very hard truths at times so that people would go...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Wake up and go, wait a minute. We're not going down the right path.
Vince Torres:And I think to your point, even that idea of I'm just gonna preach the gospel.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:Well, one of the things I've loved the most about Blaze, and this is what actually... When when Tiffany and I visited the church for the first time way back in the day, was the faithful preaching of the gospel in its entirety, though. Yes. And I and I think one of the things that we've seen over the years, especially through Blaze and and and the faithfulness that you have had as our lead pastor to just teaching through the scripture, is if you just teach the Bible, just preach the gospel, just preach Jesus, if you're doing it faithfully, you'll rub against all of these cultural issues.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And I
Vince Torres:think step into them. You you... Yes. Exactly. Take it even a step further, step into them.
Vince Torres:And one of the things that I've really liked about our churches, as the cultural changes have shifted from one direction to another, the political winds blow left or right, I don't feel like we've ever been in a position where we have felt as a church that we suddenly need to change course in order to address it. Mhmm. Because as we've been faithful just to preach the word of God Mhmm. And to preach the gospel over the course of the twenty plus years that you've been doing this, you've touched on all of these cultural issues.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Isn't it crazy? I mean, you're... You you see behind the scenes of all of it. Mhmm.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so you can say, yeah. This is true, not true. But as we pray and go, okay, Lord, what do you have for us? Like, just go back all the way from 2019. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:As we're finishing up this one book, where are we going? Well, we go into first Thessalonians. Mhmm. Then we go into second Thessalonians. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Then first and second Peter. And in addition to that, Judges and and then Nehemiah. Mhmm. And then we come out of Nehemiah, and we go into... Or we go into first Peter, and then now we're in Hebrews.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And it's crazy how it's like God's going, if we're just we're just listening to the Lord, then I don't have to go looking for stuff to speak to cultural stuff. It's like as we're walking through the text, it's like, man, this is what's happening in life, and we're connecting the gospel to what's happening in life. Right? Because, again, if all we do is keep it, and I and I use this in air quotes in the sense theological, where it never impacts our lives, wait a minute. Then what are we doing?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Then we just have a bunch of head knowledge. That just puffs up. But, man, God is so faithful as we're walking through the scriptures to go, man, aren't we seeing this in the culture right now? Where's...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:God's calling us to rest. We're in Hebrews right now. God's calling us to rest. And and there's people that are literally on the doorstep of it but won't walk in, and they're missing it. And we see it all around us.
Vince Torres:They're missing it.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? They're looking for this. They're looking for that, and we can just go, here it is.
Vince Torres:Yeah. I I I think one of the other things that we... We've... You and I have had conversations about in the past is this idea of discipleship
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:You know, which is clearly part of the great commission. It's it's why the church exists. It is our responsibility. And just the question of, well, if we're not discipling people, if we're not discipling our church on all of these things, they are being discipled.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:Someone else is doing the discipling, whether that's a pundit on a on a television show or a politician Mhmm. Or whatever it is. And so where where the pulpit remains quiet, it's not that the people aren't then getting that information from somewhere else. Yep. And I think that's one of
Pastor Carlos Montoya:the Make things that sure is we're a vacuum.
Vince Torres:Yes. Exactly. And I've been so thankful that, under your leadership and just to see you consistently do that through the pulpit. And again, not not not in a way that's suddenly like, I'm gonna veer here, but as the scripture addresses this, we're just gonna talk about it. Yeah.
Vince Torres:And I think it's been really neat to hear, even just from our own folks at our church, that as cultural issues suddenly arise and become a thing, they're coming at them like, yeah, I... This isn't confusing to me. Yeah. We've talked about this. We've talked about this.
Vince Torres:And we didn't talk about it a week ago because it suddenly started trending last week. We talked about this five years ago in the book of Exodus or And whatever it so this idea of, you know, if the church doesn't disciple Christians on cultural issues, who who then is doing it? Can can you talk a little bit about the role of the pastor, especially as it as it relates to our role as a shepherd and being that that disciple maker.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:Talk about that a little bit.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Well, yeah. And I think you're nailing it on the head. Right? Because if if we had to boil down our role and responsibility as pastors, right, Paul lays it out for us very clearly in Ephesians chapter four. Mhmm.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? My job, your job as pastors, is to equip the saints for the work of ministry.
Vince Torres:Ministry. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Discipleship. Mhmm. Right? And and he goes further. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And he says, so that we're not carried around with every wind of doctrine. Yep. That we're... That's... They're not like waves being one minute they're here and one minute they're over here because culture is telling them that.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And as we see... Because that's what culture does. One minute, this is okay, and the next second, it's not okay. And so if we're following the culture, it's like a wave. Mhmm.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so our job is to equip them with the gospel in order to do ministry. And when we think of ministry, I'm not just talking about church on Sunday. Mhmm. I'm talking about being a father, a mother, and what that looks like. Hey, being an example in your workplace and your school, man, that's all discipleship.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? What does it look like to live for Christ in every area of your life? So at the heart of it, that's what we're doing. That's because... And when we abdicate that and we vacate that, and well, now it's important than ever because, you know, just go back ten years ago.
Vince Torres:Mhmm.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah, you had Facebook and this thing called Twitter. But now you have the explosion of... Well, now Twitter's X and you have TikTok and you have all these platforms now where people get on and they spout the most ridiculous things. Yeah. I was watching a video just yesterday of this young woman, and, man, it breaks my heart, but with full confidence.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And I would go so far to say with demonic confidence. She says that Paul is a heretic and that to follow the teachings of Paul, you're not following Christ. And she makes this argument, and you can hear the hiss of the enemy in it. I'm not saying it's right at all, but to someone who doesn't know, it could appear like, well, wait a minute. This might be true.
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so we have people that... The Internet, guess what? It never takes a break. You know what I found out? It's 20 fourseven.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so you have wolves that have access to your sheep 20 fourseven. Right? And so that's why, again, it is imperative that, again, we are teaching the full counsel of God as the Bible says. Mhmm. Because if we're not, if we're only picking and choosing our our favorite text, and, you know, you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you, and we're gonna talk about that four times a month.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:No. We gotta gotta talk about all of it. We gotta talk from beginning to end what God's desire and will for your life is. Right? Because, again, we live in this this this place of the already, but not yet.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. Where we as Christians live in this in between where God's called us to make disciples until we see him face to face. And so our job as pastors is to equip them. What do we equip them with? Well, it doesn't matter what I think.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:It doesn't matter what you think. Mhmm. What does the word of God say? So that when the enemy comes and these people pop up on the Internet, they go, wait a minute. That's not what the word of God says.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yes. Right? We can turn to Peter. Mhmm. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We all know Peter, the guy that has his mouth shaped like a foot, who says, hey, we all know Paul. Right? Mhmm. We know his teachings. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:They're sometimes hard to understand. But, man, hey, they're scripture.
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:That's my paraphrase. But he said he he equates Paul's writings even then, first century, with the rest of the Old Testament. Mhmm. So this person popping up now in 2026 is nothing new. Nothing new under the sun, the Bible says.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:You can go, ah, yeah, no. I reject that.
Vince Torres:No. And I'm I'm so thankful for that emphasis on always bringing our people to the scripture. And I've I've shared this with you. I've I've used that even in my parenting Mhmm. As as we've had to navigate some very, very pressing cultural issues with our with our young kids.
Vince Torres:And in the case of my daughter talking through biblical sexual ethic and other things at a much earlier age than I would have ever imagined, I would have had to have those conversations. But I remember, as my wife and I went to prayer and sought counsel on how do we start to have these difficult conversations, I'll never forget you, but also through prayer, the Lord impressing upon me, take her to my word. Mhmm. Because there there there will come a day, and there was an understanding, and and we see this happen all the time as parents, I knew there would come a day where what dad said isn't going to hold as much weight.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I
Vince Torres:knew there would come a day where there would be other voices in her head who would even challenge, hey, your parents don't know what they're talking about. That's old fashioned. You know, don't worry about that. I knew there was a possibility that one day she'd find herself in a classroom, be it in high school or in college, where someone was going to challenge my authority.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And in that moment, I didn't wanna give her a free pass to be like, yeah, they're probably right. Dad's an idiot. He doesn't know what he's talking about. And so in those difficult conversations, we led with this is what God says. Yes.
Vince Torres:Because when that inevitably still happens, where I want my daughter to to grapple with is not what dad said versus what these new people are telling me Mhmm. But what they are telling me and what the Lord has said. Rest wrestle there, because that's ultimately where we need to land in our decisions. Right? And it's interesting because it takes us right back to the garden.
Vince Torres:Has God really said... That's the question. I've I've said this before, and and we've talked about this at other events. To me, that is the prevailing cultural question of our day.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:That is what the enemy is continuing to put in the minds of believers and nonbelievers alike. Because it still Has God really said because it still works?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Because it still works. And here's what breaks my heart, and I'm not trying to get off on a rabbit trail, but here's what breaks my heart now, right, is now you have this whole, let's be kind, third way Mhmm. In Christianity where now we have, quote unquote, pastors going, well, has God really said?
Vince Torres:Wow.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And you're going, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. What?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:No. This has long been settled, and and not because some men declared it to be. No. No. No.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We're just recognizing what has been declared. Yes. And now we're gonna move from the certainty of what God has promised and what we've seen. And last time I checked, Jesus is still risen, so nothing's changed. Yes.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:He's still on the throne. And we have pastors going, well, is that what that really means and did God really say? Well, that we've opened a barn door now for now people to go, Well, maybe, well, this pastor kind of is saying this now, and they're a pastor. And okay. And so, dad, I know you pointed me here, but wait, no, this is still unchanged, right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And again, this is not an old book. This is an eternal book with one central message, right? That God in his infinite love has sent his son to die in our place for our sins. He rose three days later from the grave, and everyone who places their faith, hope, and trust in that, we have the assurance of eternal life in Nothing's changed.
Vince Torres:So so so on that, you bring up an interesting point, and and this is where I see a big difference in how we, as the modern church, have have perhaps evolved in maybe not so good a way versus how the the the early church dealt with legitimate questions of of doctrine. And and we know how the early church... You you were one of my church history, you know, teachers back in the day. When there were legitimate questions over over scripture and interpretation, they would gather councils. They would literally gather meetings.
Vince Torres:Mhmm. They would seek out the scripture. They would, through prayer, come to an agreement
Pastor Carlos Montoya:For months.
Vince Torres:And then and then draw the line that this is what the scripture says, and anything outside of that is not true. They would draw the line there. I don't feel like we really do that anymore. And and in many cases, there's just this understanding that it's something that we can just agree to disagree on, but we don't want to needlessly divide. Mhmm.
Vince Torres:You know? So we wanna be one. We wanna be a unified church. Mhmm. Talk about where we may be missing it even on that.
Vince Torres:Mhmm. And where where is it the responsibility of a pastor, of a shepherd, to potentially even divide with another pastor or another shepherd?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. Oh, yeah. And as you know, there's been times we've had to. Yeah. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:There's there's people that we would say, hey, we would never fellowship or support because just we're not even in the same boat. Yeah. Now, again, I don't know how much time we have, but the reality is this, is that, again, as we work through church history, yes, to all those things. And now we have denominations. And again, you do see councils.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:You do see stuff within denominations and people going, hey, we need to wrestle with this denomination. We saw what happened with the PCUSA and the PCA and all that split, those things that are happening internally. But you're right. As a whole, as the church universally, right, as the church in a true Catholic way, right, the universal church has not had a council, right, because, well, we have all our denominations. Now, what's sad, though, is that, again, we've let it be that way, but then to see...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Here's what I've seen, right, again, within the denominations. The things that they're arguing about now is not, is this true or not, but how do we get this to fit in with the culture's pressure on us? So there's cultural pressure pushing in on the church, and how do we make this stance? And how do we stay loving and stay in a place where we want to let people know outside the church that we love and care for them but not compromise on the Word, which has ultimately led to compromise. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Instead of going, is God's word clear on this? Then it's settled. So now, again, to them, we're, okay, can women preach? What is gender? And they're having these conversations when this has been settled a long time ago.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? And so we wanna reopen up something, and it's because of the cultural pressure on the outside instead of being that lighthouse, that city on a hill. Right? Jesus said this in Matthew in the Sermon on the Mount. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:He says, basically, you're the salt of the earth, and you're the light of the world. And then he says, man, if you don't take a lamp and put it under a bushel Yeah. Nor do you... You know, right? Again, and if the salt loses its seasoning, it's good for nothing except to be trampled.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. Well, I think we've seen a little bit of that within the church in a sense in Christianity, I'll say it that way, in where instead of just standing on the truth of God's word and being salt, which again, we know is a preserving agent, right? It's not just for flavor. Yeah, I think the church should add flavor too. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I don't think we should just be boring, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, but there should be flavor element to it. We should add flavor to this culture, and we should create a culture that people go, wow, this is anything like... I've never seen anything like this. But we should also be a preserving agent. We should prevent decay.
Vince Torres:Yes.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? And then a lighthouse, right? We shouldn't take this light and put it under a basket. No. We should...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:City on a hill can't be hidden so that people look to this and they have direction. We should be setting direction, not taking our cues from culture. We should be speaking to culture going, hey, you're going the wrong way. Hey, there's some decay going on here. You need to turn back.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And instead, we're going, okay, What are we... What's going on?
Vince Torres:How do we how do we blend in?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. How do we blend in?
Vince Torres:How do we blend in? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You talk about the whole counsel of God.
Vince Torres:And, again, we we we know several good friends of ours, good pastors, who wanna faithfully preach the whole counsel of God, but we we see periodically where where the pulpits go silent on on on controversial issues. Mhmm. We we believe that, as pastors, we have a responsibility to address both the moral and cultural issues of our day, especially as they become politically controversial.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:But why do you what do you think keeps so many pastors back from engaging at at that level? And and, again, we we know some of the usual arguments. You mentioned separation of church and state. We've talked about the legal ramifications of the Johnson Amendment and other things. But let's set that aside, which to me are surface level concerns, and let's get to the deep root of it.
Vince Torres:Why do you
Pastor Carlos Montoya:think there are so many pastors out there and so many church leaders who just don't want to speak out on these issues? Well, again, I think for some pastors who are within mainline denominations, right, they answer to someone way above them. Right? And depending on how their church is set up, their ecclesiology, right, their members could get them removed with some letters and some phone calls.
Vince Torres:So they could lose their job. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Right? For others who maybe don't have that kind of oversight in that way from a denominational standpoint, again, people vote all the time. Right? That's the part that I just don't get.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? You don't want to talk about voting and all these things, but people vote all the time. I say this all the time. Vince, as a pastor, I get hired and fired every Sunday.
Vince Torres:That's right.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:People vote whether they're gonna come to Blaze or not come to Blaze every Sunday. And it's, oh, I didn't like that message or that worship song didn't speak to me. I wish they would play, you know, whatever. And they go down these paths, but so they're afraid to lose people because people vote with their feet. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so, okay. And they vote with their pocketbooks and they vote these things. And and and again, as you've been in this deal, again, there's pastors that can... They can they can they become weary. And and I I get it.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Like, I'm I'm not saying I've been impervious to this whole idea where it's like, man, you get beat up.
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And one minute, man, you're walking with people and you're going down this road, and the next minute, they're gone. And so I think there's that part of that human element, that fleshly element that goes, man, I just don't want to... This is something I don't want to make an issue. I'd rather just fly under the radar, and this is something we can just kind of keep our heads down on, and I'll fight the bigger battles. I'm not going to compromise on sinful issues, but this is one of those ones I can take a pass on.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And for the large... For the long time, for a long time, you were able to. But see, it goes back to that old saying that's been... That's that's become popular again. Hard times make strong men.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Strong men make good times. Good times make soft men. We were in that time of good times. Well, now the hard times are coming again. So now it's hard to keep your head down.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Because it's everywhere now. Yeah. And so for a long time, you could coast under the radar. Pastors could, and they're like, hey, you know, blah blah blah blah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Make sure you vote or, you know, we're not gonna get into that. People are like, great. But now that's not even good for people in the church.
Vince Torres:No. And I and I think you you mentioned earlier some of the research now that we do have Mhmm. At our disposal. And whether it's Barna, whether it's Pew, overwhelmingly, no matter how many times they do the study, the people in our seats, in our pews, in our congregations repeatedly say, I want more information Mhmm. From the pulpit, not less.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Not
Vince Torres:less. I want I want more truth, not less. Mhmm. I wanna know what the biblical position is on these most pressing issues that are being debated publicly in the public square. And so with that, yes, while I think there's definitely a component of weariness among pastors that we've certainly experienced, But silence on the most pressing moral issues of our day, at the end of the day, comes down to the compromise that you And I think that's where a lot of folks land.
Vince Torres:And it's easy to hide that, disguise that cowardice as a form of wisdom, winselessness, righteousness.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I got people in my church that had an abortion. I don't want to offend someone. Well, we're not trying to offend anybody either. Mhmm. But I don't want them to remain bound in darkness.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Right? So it's like, okay, let's start a Bible study for women that have maybe made that choice and how they can have freedom in Jesus. We can speak to that, and there's hope in Jesus. But also, we know the research.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Women that are sitting in our church this Sunday would go out and have an abortion this week. Mhmm. So if we're not speaking to it, God help
Vince Torres:us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Yeah. Now, again, so we're clear. Right? I'm not saying we have to speak about abortion every single week.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:No. We just walk through scripture, and scripture's gonna say, man, God values life. We're made in the image of God.
Vince Torres:Yeah. I I think, you know, specifically on the issue of abortion, I think back to... If there was ever ever a time in which I drew my line and said, we're gonna talk about this faithfully as God, you know, brings it up, was literally a woman, a young woman in our church who had an unplanned pregnancy. And I'll never forget the Sunday after we walked with her through that process where she showed up the first Sunday with her baby in the carrier and came right up to me and said, pastor, if it wasn't for you guys, she wouldn't be here. Mhmm.
Vince Torres:If you wouldn't have had that conversation with me, I would have listened to the other voices in my head. Mhmm. She's only here Mhmm. Because of you guys. Mhmm.
Vince Torres:Never... I'll never forget that. Mhmm. I'll never forget that. Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And let that just be an encouragement again to any pastor that's listening here. Literal lives on the stake. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Vince Torres:Souls, but also physical lives. And when we refuse to have those conversations, God forbid, you know, people feel that they have no other choice or that this is somehow not a not a moral or a biblical issue. We have to be willing to speak out on these sorts of things. You've heard me repeat it a lot. I I love, you know, Bonhoeffer's quote about silence in the face of evil is evil itself.
Vince Torres:To speak is to speak. Not to act is to act. And I don't think many of us realize the complicit nature of silence when these things come up. And again, that's why I'm so thankful that, you know, under your leadership, again, nothing trendy, nothing out of the ordinary, nothing particularly entertaining, but as we have just showed up on a Sunday morning and faithfully walked through God's word, we've been able to address all of these issues.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yep. And people have real hope. Yes. And then the cool part about it is, you know, the cool part about all of this, which is so awesome, long after I'm gone and you're gone, they'll still have this. Yes.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And then they'll be able to transmit it to other people. Amen. And that's the whole goal, right? Discipleship. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so, again, I know that, again, for some pastors trained in certain ways, discipleship is like, oh my gosh, daunting. Mhmm. And then you look at the culture we live in. It can become even more daunting, right? Because, again, we live in a depressed state, whether it's educationally, economically.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I mean, it's set up... The way our state is set up right now, it's set up against family. It's set up against community. It's set up in every single way. You have to work two jobs.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:My son's 20 years old, and he's working two jobs right now in order just to try to start saving to build some kind of life. He can't do it on just one income. And so everything's set up in a way where I'm going to take as much time away from the family, I'm going to take all these things away. But... And the pastor was, okay, how do then I start making disciples?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? And with the people I have, how do we... Man, again, I go back to what Jesus says. Right? When when he began to call his first disciples, I mean, think about that.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Most of these men, if you go and do the history, were literate. They were uneducated, untrained men. Right? I mean, we see that in the book of Acts.
Vince Torres:Yeah. Right? We know who you are.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. You're uneducated, untrained men, but you've been with Jesus.
Vince Torres:They marveled.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. They marveled. Right? But here's the other thing. Remember what Jesus says to him?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Like, again, John and his brother, Peter and his brother, both picks him up by the Sea Of Galilee, and he says, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. So as we teach people to follow Jesus, Jesus makes them disciples. Right? We're just pointing them to Jesus, and we do that in every aspect of it, not just in Bible. Hey, read these five verses.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Give me your thoughts on this. No. This is what it looks like to be a godly man, a godly woman. Mhmm. This is what it looks like to engage culture in a godly way.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? We don't have to get all up in arms, and we don't have to to scream and shout. We can say, no, we're gonna stand on truth, we're gonna stay on truth, and we're not gonna move from truth. And you'll see when you do that, that's what upsets people.
Vince Torres:Yeah. That becomes controversial. That's right. That's right. And we've harped a lot on pastors, which we can do because we're in the trenches with them.
Vince Torres:Yep. But let's also talk about now our people. And you and I have spent many years encouraging our folks, admonishing them and pushing them to engage in both civic and political life, recognizing the unique responsibility that we have living in this incredible country where we get to have a say in who our leaders are.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And it's always interesting to me when I when I engage with with Christians sometimes, and, you know, they'll they'll say, well, we don't we don't see voting in the Bible. We don't see voting. I'm like, well, that... That's because they had an emperor, and and they didn't have a say, but God has given us this incredible opportunity in a constitutional republic to say, hey. We can...
Vince Torres:We have a vote. We have a voice in who our leaders are. Why wouldn't we not use that for God's glory and for the benefit of our community? So talk a little bit about what you've seen even in our own congregation. We've had some political apathy, and heck, we've even had to to to be on the other side of of some of our people who, again, you know, being from the Hispanic North, you know, predominantly Catholic, predominantly Democrat, and and we've had to we've had to face political issues head on and have some very difficult conversations.
Vince Torres:How have you managed to do that without losing relationships and getting to a place where many folks are right now where they see that as as as being a divisive conversation. Mhmm. We've had them. We haven't lost many people over that, but a lot of it's been rooted in healthy conversation. But over the years, you've had to address that head on.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I think number one, there has been some division. We have lost some relationships, but that's okay. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:But I think stepping into this, I think, number one, I think it's attacking that very idea right there, right, to go, hey, this is a divisive issue, but for good reason. But I'm not trying to be divisive just to be divisive. Again, the Bible says we're not to be quarrelsome, especially as pastors. You avoid someone who's quarrelsome and is looking for a fight everywhere under every rock, trying to just get some kind of notarider pussy through attack, attack, attack. That's not good, right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:No, no. But on these issues, pick one. I mean, there's just a million of them out Hey, no, no, no. I want to recognize with you right now, this is a divisive issue. And here's why, though.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Because this is the culture trying to say that we have no other god but Caesar. Mhmm. Instead of going, we come under the submission of what the Scripture says and what God has deemed best for human growth and flourishing, and we're rejecting that flat out because that comes up in our politics. Right? Again, as we've said, okay, we're gonna leave government to government, and we're gonna stay the church to church, the government goes, well, now we want what's going on in the church.
Vince Torres:That's right. Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so now that they're invading, and now it's, well, that's a political issue. That's political issue. Wait a minute. We can go back on any one of them, whether it's life, I mean sexuality. We can just go across the board.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Money, all these things, the government goes, no, we want all of it. We want to be God. Yeah. We will tell you what a woman is. We will tell you what sexuality is.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We will tell you where life begins. We will tell you what to do with your money. We will tell you all these things. Serve us. And that's where we have to pull back and go, no, no, no.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:God has made me unique in his image, not your image. And so, again, what I do with my body in this sense, right, it's my body because God is dear to me, and I can determine what I do in this sense to honor him, not to dishonor him. Right? So to go, okay, I get it. This is a controversial, this is a divisive issue.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And at the end of the day, this divides us, I'm okay with that. Because, again, my aim is to please God, not be culturally relevant. That's right. And I'm talking about even just our people. Because, again, I think our people go, well, pastor, that's your job.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:No, we're equipping you to do ministry. When you're sitting at Thanksgiving, it's coming up in a few weeks. And we all are going have those conversations. Did you see? Again, we've had these conversations with people in our church, right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Well, I wanted to say something so bad. Oh, why didn't you? That's right. Why didn't you? You stand on the side of truth.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Again, I was afraid. Okay, let's get to those issues. And then that's a gospel issue. Where do you believe that in that moment that Jesus isn't enough in this area or that this truth is not relevant and impactful? And then so secondly, after you go, hey, acknowledge this is divisive, but here's why.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We're talking about not a political issue, we're talking about eternal issues. Yeah. And for me, this is not right and left. This is life and death. I'm talking about eternity is in the balance here in so many ways.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so when I look at it in that perspective, and our people can look at it from that perspective, it's easier to have those conversations. Right? Yeah. Because, hey, if I knew you had cancer, but I'm like, I want to embarrass him and tell him that I know that he has this really rare cancer. No, no, I'm going to tell you, hey, if you take this medication, I was healed from this cancer.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:The very cancer you have, I was healed from. But this was this weird regimen that I had to do in the sense that people from the outside, would deem it weird. But I'm telling you, it works. How about would I have to hate you to not say, You need to go see this doctor and get on this regimen? You can beat that cancer.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:It's easy to have those uncomfortable conversations when I know life and death is in the balance. And again, I'm not trying to exaggerate this, but I don't think we think in these terms. But again, even go back to the Old Testament. God's called his people and saved them out of bondage, out of Egypt, and we know the types of... We can get into all those things.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:As he's getting ready to establish them into the Promised Land, Right? We we we all know what what God says in Deuteronomy. Today, set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose life. Mhmm.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? God doesn't exact... He's not... I I don't think God's exaggerating. Like, these small these small decisions that we make here on family, sexuality, life, government are eternally significant and, again, determine our human growth and flourishing here on Earth, whether life or death.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Death of the family we're seeing right before our eyes, death of living people. I mean, we see these things. It's truly life and death. So when we actually look at it in that way and going, well, if I don't say something, literally, things can die.
Vince Torres:That's so powerful. I mean, the framing of what you just did, and the simplicity of it. The frustrating part about all of this is, if that's true, and it is, then we should be some of the most vocal voices on all of these issues. Because we recognize what's below the surface. Because what we see at surface level is the other dichotomy.
Vince Torres:It's Republican or it's Democrat, it's left or it's right, It's progressive or it's conservative. Mhmm. But again, getting to a place of it's life or death. Period. Having that understanding and that knowledge, I don't know why we would be silent on these things if we truly recognize that using your illustration, we have the medication for that.
Vince Torres:And I think one of the other things is, as we play within the gray area, you know, and remain nuanced at best, silent at worse. That's what
Pastor Carlos Montoya:we have come to hate to be honest.
Vince Torres:Yeah, same, same. But what we land up doing in that situation is we actually feed into the prevailing argument of the culture, which is everything is non binary. Everything's non binary. And if we as the church come forward with the same argument that, hey, the scripture is just as nonbinary and nuanced as everything else that you say it is, man, what are we doing? Mhmm.
Vince Torres:The last time last time I checked, like, God's creation is incredibly binary.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yes.
Vince Torres:Male, female. Right, wrong, life, death. You're either for me or
Pastor Carlos Montoya:against me. You either gather with me or you're scattering.
Vince Torres:Yes. Life or death. Mhmm. That's the question before us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. So how
Vince Torres:do we how do we how do we take that spiritual application, which we all should lead with as Christians, how do we apply that then to civics, to our to our voting?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Speak up. Right? And and see, again, I think we have to get over a couple of things. Number one, this fear of not knowing enough. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Like, I don't know I don't know enough about the topic. I was sharing this with a guy the other day. We were hanging out, and I said, you know what I wonder about? Because he asked me, hey, bro. Like, honestly, like...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:He was being serious. Mhmm. I wanted to lighten the mood a little bit, but he goes, like, what are you really thinking about, really pondering about right now? And you know my personality, bro. I said, you know what I wonder about?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I wonder whatever happened to the pygmy in Africa. And he's like, what? And I said, remember that used to be the argument. Right? Well, what about the pygmy in Africa who's never heard?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. When's the last time you've heard that argument? Right? Well, Because we have Internet now. They have Skynet.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:They have Skylink, all these things. And Internet's everywhere. Right? And we used to think, oh, we gotta go to the end zero. And I'm not saying we don't.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. But again, there's many ways we can go where the message is getting across the globe right now, where tribes in these remote parts are now linked up to the world, and they're hearing the gospel. Right? So the Pygmy in Africa does this all. But I think people get...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:That used to be the question that threw everybody off. Well, what about the Pygmy in Africa? I don't know how to answer that. They never heard the gospel. Do they get to go to heaven or hell?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:They freak out. And so I think they get to these things that, okay, I've been ignorant politically. Yeah. And so I don't know how to answer this. I don't understand the depths of our branches of government, the executive, the legislative, the judicial.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Oh, I didn't know there was that. Like, they don't know these things until they go, I'm gonna get stumped. I'm gonna look I'm gonna stumped. I'm gonna get... I'm gonna look like a fool.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And again, it goes back to that idea of, okay, I'm just gonna take this back to where it belongs. They have scripture. Yeah. Right? It's it's it's like when the blind man was healed, and they're like, hey, tell us by who did this.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Tell us what's going on. He goes, I don't know. Here's what I do know.
Vince Torres:I was blind.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And now I see.
Vince Torres:And now I see. It reminds me when you talk about that doubt. I was just having a conversation with someone this week and actually shared this quote on my social media, but, from the Triumph of Stupidity, Bertrand Russell.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:He says, the whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And I see that so much in the church. Yeah. I see that so much in the church when, again, the simplicity of if you don't know the answer, just go back to where you can find it. Exactly. And there isn't an area of life that this book doesn't touch.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Amen. Right? What does Paul say in the book of Romans? Whatever was written before was written for our learning, that we, through the patience and comfort of the scriptures, might have hope. Hope.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Not fear, not doubt. Man, we can have hope. Right? And so there's hope in these answers. Whether they accept it or not, that's not on us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:So that first one is, okay, we have to speak up and get over this fear of looking. Here's the coolest thing. If someone asks you about the quote unquote proverbial pygmy in Africa, the political pygmy in Africa, what about in the cases of rape and incest? And what about this? And what about whatever it is that they're gonna...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:The got you card, right? You know the easiest thing to say that I use all the time? I don't know, but I'll find out. I'll get back to you. It's okay to say I don't know.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I think they respect you more when you're honest. Because people will know if you're blowing smoke in their ear. If you just start making stuff up and it's like, hey, I don't know. But man, you bring up a good point. I'm going to get back to you on this.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And then make sure you get back to him on it. Yeah. Right? And so speak up. Get over that fear of looking foolish or not knowing enough.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:But that means also, hey, you should be studied up on this stuff. Right? You should have you should have a framework of where you're connecting what you're reading here in in your love of Jesus, in pursuit of Jesus, to what's going on in the world around you. Yeah. Jesus didn't live in a bubble.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? No. John even goes like, wait a minute, Jesus, are you the Messiah? Should we look for someone else? Why?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Because he's dealing with tax collectors and sinners, he's in these places I never thought the Messiah would be. But, no, that's exactly where we need to be, and that's where Christians need to be. We need to be in the marketplace. We need to be among the culture, again, being light and salt. Not being like the culture, not blending into the culture, So that means we should have enough understanding of what's going on in the world around us and considering what's happening around us and able to give an answer of the hope that lies within us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so what does that mean? Mean, again, I'm just gonna be straight up. Put down the entertainment. Right? Again, it means, yeah, oh, I'm done with school.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I'm done... No, no, no. Man, we never stop learning. We should never stop growing because, again, what are we leaving for our kids, our grandkids? We should know what's going on in the world around us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We should know. Again, it's sad when we go, well, I don't know who's running. I don't know where their stance is. Why not? They're going affect your life, your kid's life, your grandkids' life.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I you go get a surgery, you want to know if this doctor's a good doctor. So I hope you would do some research.
Vince Torres:Well, and on that, it's interesting you bring that up because, again, this whole idea of of of loving your neighbor, which, again, one of the most important instructions and commandments that we have in scripture that has been, in my opinion, like exploited. Mhmm. A 100%. And and and and is being used to to profess something and maybe even excuse some things that we would say are are not consistent with the context of the passage. But even let's let's use that, that one of the best ways I can love my neighbor is engaging in the process in order to create a community, a state, a nation that is flourishing more, which will benefit all of us.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And so even if you wanna run with the, like, love your neighbor thing, yeah, love your neighbor by participating in the process and creating a better community for them to live and flourish in.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I love if you look at the... If the founding fathers of our country, right, and some of the pastors in the... That were there. I love one of the lines. This is one of the biggest...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:One the strongest ways you could serve the Lord is by running for Congress. Mhmm. Like, no one would say that today. It's like, oh, if you want to be a Christian, stay away from Congress. Well, why?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:That's where Christians are needed the most. That's where truth is needed the most. That's where our impact is needed the most. And let's just be honest. Right?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Let's just be honest. Again, we got to destroy this false analogy because Congress, our roundhouse, they're not devoid of belief.
Vince Torres:That's
Pastor Carlos Montoya:right. Everyone else is bringing their beliefs with them, too. They're just not Christian. Right? So...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:But, man, we're the ones that get, oh, hey. You gotta leave that at the door.
Vince Torres:Well, we hear it at the time. Right? Like, you can't legislate morality.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah.
Vince Torres:And I always tell people, look, I've I've worked in politics long enough to know that we legislate morality every day. Every only question still is whose morality is being legislated. Amen.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:A 100% right. So we get rid of the ignorance, we step in, we speak up, and then we act. Right? Paul says imitate me as imitate Christ. So again, don't wanna say, hey, here's what I'm thinking.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Here's how I'm living. I'm going to this end. I'm getting involved. I am engaging. I am doing these things.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I think it's so important, right, because, again, our job is to equip them to do work. And so you go back to the whole loving your neighbor thing, yes and amen. And John even qualifies that even further in his epistle, right? He says, Brothers, let us not merely love in word or in talk, but in deed and truth. They're both.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:If we just do deed, I want to show you I love you, but devoid of truth, what is that? Abuse. That's what abusers do to their victims. They play this mind game, this form of love, while they abuse them. It's devoid of truth.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And if we have truth without deed, we know what that leads. And so we have to have deed and truth. And so, yeah, I think those three things then, again, begin to set a framework for human growth and flourishing and for us to get involved. Now, the results of the Lord... And again, I think here's the...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I'll just add one more thing, and this is the one that I think paralyzes the church because, again, when you look at the numbers, it's embarrassing. I'm just gonna say it, church, it's embarrassing. We don't show up on We don't show up and vote. Right? A while back, I was listening to a debate, And at the end, it's like, hey, one of the questions that was asked from the audience was, hey, X, Y, or Z.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And they answered it pretty good. And both messages from both candidates were basically, on day one, I'm going to show up and I'm going to do this. I'm going show up and do this. And you can expect me to show up and do this. And it was this whole idea.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And like, man, we expect them to show up, but we don't show up. One guy is not going to change the culture. Man, we all need to show up. Our vote isn't the end. It doesn't end with our vote.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:That's just the beginning. No, we've got to show up in our communities. That's what will change and transform our communities. But here's the thing, though, and I'll just add this last thing, sorry, is we've got to get over this idea that we're voting for a pastor.
Vince Torres:Well, both of Explain that. Go into that.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I don't have a choice here. No, no, no. Yeah, you do. You do. Again, is not, again, hey, we're looking for someone to preach on Sunday.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We're looking for someone to lead our government. Now, again, it doesn't mean we accept outright sin, but the reality is this. My job is to go, okay, which candidate literally is going to inact biblical standards that we would believe in and uphold to that's gonna... We want human growth in first thing. We wanna seek the peace of the city.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We want our neighbors to flourish. We want to love our neighbors well. Well, which candidate wonder what platform would it be better? Yeah. Would the kids of our community be safer under this person's platform or this person's platform?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I'm not voting for the person. I'm voting for the policies that they support. And so, again, I don't have to even like the person. But what I'm looking for is, okay, at the end of the day, who's gonna lead this community? I'm just speaking locally.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And you can work that all the way out to the country better than what we founded. Yeah. Now what they do with your vote and your voice, because again, we are a constitutional republic, again, we are the government, that's on them, and they'll answer to God for that at that point. But you'll answer to God for not engaging.
Vince Torres:Yeah.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? We all know the parable of the talents and the servants, right? The one that buries their talents in the ground, what God has given them, how does it go for them?
Vince Torres:Not well.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Not well. And here's the reality. Our vote has been given to us by God. You talk about that. This is the only time in history this has ever happened.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? It used to be called the great experiment. Well, we've proved that it's worked, but the reality is that it's a government by the people for the people. Right? Oh, voting's not in the Bible.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:You're right. You nailed it because this type of government didn't even exist. It was never even dreamt of. If they could have been in that government... And that's why people to this day are fighting to get here to have a voice.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:What we do with our voice matters. And so I think it's a talent that's been given to us by God. And like the Bible says, too much is given, much is required. Yeah. This is a gift from God.
Vince Torres:We have, as you know, a very, very important election coming up here. And I I think as we've looked at the two platforms and we've talked through some of this, the the differences could not be more more stark. Mhmm. And I've I've had conversations recently around the idea of us moving far beyond the days of both sides wanting what's best and kind of agreeing on an overall framework and just disagreeing on the means by which they get there. I think the goal, the the the framework, everything is is different now.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm.
Vince Torres:And I think that we are entering a place where the light and death, the life and death distinction that you so eloquently brought up earlier is becoming more and more clear. I don't know about you, but I feel that the enemy is doubling down on what he is doing. And I just get the sense that the evil is more felt. It's more in your face.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Perhaps
Vince Torres:that's... He recognizes that his time is coming to an end.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:That's all I was gonna say.
Vince Torres:I do feel like we've moved to a place where Satan, our enemy, our adversary, who used to be, you know, hiding behind the curtains Mhmm. Is now just in your face. What would you attribute that to?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:To that very thing. Again, we can agree to disagree eschatologically, but the reality is this. I think that we're pretty close to the end. If are looking at the Bible and taking it at face value, there's many things we could point to, we could have a whole conversation on this. And I think we see, again, just several things.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Right? Jesus talks about that just like it was in the days of Noah, it'll be in these days. And, again, we we can go back to Genesis chapter five. We go to Genesis chapter six, and we can we can see what was going on in the days of Noah that we're in Genesis chapter six. God says that he regretted making man.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Now we know what that means. We can get into that whole deal, but kinda looks a lot like today. It does. Right? And again, what's interesting is...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:So God calls this man Noah and comes, you know, makes a boat, and then we know what happens, loads two of every animal and clean animals, all the things that go in the ark, and then it says that God shut the door. Fast forward a couple thousand years. Jesus stands up and says in John, I'm the door. Right? We go through this door, and I think now, again, with knowledge running to and fro throughout the earth and now, again, the gospel spreading and this door closing on this age, Satan knows.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Hey. I'm I'm just... It's all out. I'm I'm just... The veil's coming off.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:The nice... The the the the the the nice and and gentle type of luxury type of sinning is going away, and it is what it is. And and here's the reality. Because people have been conditioned, they're in, okay. Okay.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Like, I'm not that old, but I'm old enough that when the Challenger blew up, we were watching at school. And I remember as a kid just being devastated. I remember when certain tragedies would happen in the world, which were happening once here, once there. Again, they were probably happening more frequently, but we didn't have the technology to know what's happening all around the world as we do now. I mean, now we can watch it happen live.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:What's going on in France right now, what's going on in Europe right now, we're watching it live on TV. Like, we don't have to wait for a report. People are just going like this. And so the masks come off. And so...
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And people, they they... Like the Bible says, they've forgotten how to blush. Where we should be ripping our clothes and repenting as a... Like, the world, we're just going Yeah. Another day.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Another day. And so I think that's huge. I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus came back this afternoon. I I really wouldn't. Let it be so.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. Amen. Right? Right. And so the second part of
Vince Torres:your question was what again, though? Just just just that. Like, what the the the why, the the evil being so much more, like, in your face.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And it's always been here. Right? Yeah. It's always been here. But to your point, the mask has come off.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Yeah. And we've seen it several times throughout history. Again, I spoke about Noah. We can fast forward to Sodom and Gomorrah, the Roman Empire. Like, you can just go through these times of history where there's this law, this buildup, and then this explosion.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And, again, people go, oh, so that's what's probably gonna happen here, then we'll kinda get into this utopia time. Well, no. No. No. I I don't think that.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I think what's coming next is the redemption of the church. Right? Jesus will come back for his bride, and I think I think what we see here happening is the setup for that. So, again, I hope it happens today. If it doesn't happen for another thousand years, I just wanna be ready.
Vince Torres:Well, I I would love to to have you back and and discuss some some eschatology because you and I have had some in-depth conversations about that and how the book of Revelation aligns with much of what we're seeing today. But I just wanna thank you for for for coming today and for helping me launch this podcast. This is the first one. Awesome. And as we as we scheduled it, I I said there's there's only one guy that I wanna talk to for this first one.
Vince Torres:That's my pastor who has invested so much into me. Again, just to repeat, like, the the format even for this, this is a conversation that you and I would have on a Tuesday Yeah. In your office, and I'm so thankful for that. Again, I just wanna remind the folks that are listening, this isn't a call for the church to be more political. This is a call for the church to be biblical in how we engage the culture and engage politics, recognizing that there is no savior other than Jesus Christ.
Vince Torres:Our ultimate hope is not in any political leader, any system of government. It is in Jesus Christ alone. It's it's why it's why we sing. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. Amen?
Vince Torres:Amen. Pastor, I wanna leave you with one thing. Ideally, we want this to get out to the masses, and there may be some folks who who listen into this who don't know Jesus. And so would you briefly share the gospel for those who may not know Jesus and and and wanna know him in a way that you and I know him, and then close us out in prayer.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Mhmm. Yeah. A 100%. Man, if you do not know Jesus and you're trying to link what we're talking about even just politically and all that's going on in this world, here's what I wanna do is take a step back and that God sent Jesus to literally establish a kingdom above all kingdoms. Matter of fact, the Bible calls him the king of kings and the lord of lords.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And the reason it calls him that because he stepped out of eternity, and he literally took on flesh and lived the life that you and I should have lived perfectly, 100%. You you know, I know, we sin both in our actions and in our thoughts daily. We fall short of the glory of God, and the Bible says that the wages of sin is death, and so we get what we deserve for our sins. God is just in judging us because he is holy and perfect, but God is not only just, he's loving. Mhmm.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:And so he sent his son, for God so loved the world, that he sent his only son that whosoever believes in him would not perish but have everlasting life. Do you hear the good news? That's what gospel means, good news, that God doesn't leave us in our sin but offered himself for us, the innocent for the guilty. So all those who put their faith, hope, and trust in the finished work of Christ, that he came to this earth, lived a sinless life, died a sacrificial death, and here's the most important part, three days later rose from the grave. Why is that important?
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Because if he would have stayed in that tomb, our sins are still on us. The sacrifice is not accepted. The fact that he got up and walked out of that tomb means that that sacrifice was accepted. We now have forgiveness of sins and the hope of eternal life. The Bible says that he's the first fruits from the dead.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:We come after him. So everyone who puts their faith, what does that mean? Their confidence, their trust. I'm trusting in nothing but Jesus, not in going to church, not in being a good person, not in how much money I give, none of that. I trust Jesus alone.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:It's not even your political party. It's not like, oh, I gotta join this party or that party. No. I put my faith in Jesus, and you allow him to now literally guide, direct your life in his spirit to literally empower you. That's what it means to be a Christian.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:If you want that, that's what we're talking about here now as we close. Man, it's simple. Right where you're at, you could be at work, driving in your car, watching this in your living room. Just say, Father, I believe in Jesus. I believe that he died in my place for my sins.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:I have no other hope but him. I accept that now. Father, would you fill me with your Holy Spirit that I may live a life that is pleasing to you. Father, I just ask that you would change and transform me, that I would know peace, that I would have hope, and that I would make impact with the life and the time you've given me for your kingdom. I don't know what that means, Lord, but I know you do, and I trust you now from this day forward.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:In Jesus' name. Father, for those that are making that prayer, I pray that you would confirm for them in a very real way right now that they now belong to you, that they have transferred from death to life. Father, I pray that you would encourage them through your word. I pray, Lord God, that you would direct them to a solid Bible teaching church where they would grow in your grace and knowledge, and, father, that they would be used by you in mighty ways. In Jesus' name, amen.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:God bless you. I encourage you. Hey. Get a Bible. You don't have one.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Call Blades Christian Fellowship will get you one, and then get in a good Bible teaching church. Again, if you don't know where to look, you can start. I mean, call us. We'll help you wherever you're at. You're living in Idaho.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:You're living in Minneapolis. We can direct you to a good Bible teaching church that we would recommend, and, again, we can point you in those directions, give you several that you can go try. Love you. Thank you for the time. Thank you, pastor Vince.
Vince Torres:Thank you.
Pastor Carlos Montoya:Man, love you.
Vince Torres:Fun time. We'll do it again soon. Hopefully. God bless.