A podcast helping companies grow with marketing strategies, automation and time-saving tips and creative solutions.
James: Welcome back, I
know it's been a while.
But to keep creating a podcast while
running a small business is tough and
sometimes even with all of the best
intentions things slip, however, this is
Behind the Madness where we talk about
business growth, ways to work smarter and
the fundamentals of business all geared to
unlocking your brand's peak performance.
I'm your host James Roberts owner
and founder of Method and today
I'm joined by my co-host, Jamie.
Co-host, so he will keep
coming back to the pod.
Before we jump in, I wanted to
let you know about a few ways
that you can contact the show.
We have a dedicated email address,
which is podcast@hellomethod.co.uk,
where you can give any feedback or
ask any questions and we will try
and answer them on future episodes.
Or catch us across all your
favorite social platforms where
we publish content, helping you,
our listeners grow your business.
So Jamie, great to have you back on
the pod though, in my notes, I've had
Jamie great to have you bad on the pod.
Jamie: Either, back and
bad, back with a vengence.
James: Either way Jamie is now sailing
across the world in his high flying
jobs and we've managed to bring him
back in because to be honest, it's a
lot easier when Jamie's here co-hosting
hence why I have now called him co-host
so we can get more of these podcasts out
as I've mentioned, how are you Jamie?
Jamie: Yeah, good James, Thanks
for inviting me back, it's good to
be back as you very kindly said,
it's been an interesting about
six months since I was at Method.
And now enjoying, enjoying
the business world more so.
Uh, I'm very, very grateful for obviously
everything I learned while with you
guys which has put me in good stead.
I'm going to throw it back and throw
it back to when I used to throw you
under the bus in the old days and
kind of think about today's topic.
I want to know what you find most
valuable on social media, in terms of
what content do you enjoy consuming?
What's high value to you?
James: I consume a lot of content.
I have, as Laura will probably tell you
what she calls Robbie Hobbies, which
are things that I pick up and I enjoy.
I am an average guitar player,
I like doing DIY, we go camping.
There is a lot of things that
I enjoy in my life, fitness,
all of that type of stuff.
So because of that, I consume a vast
amount of content for all of these
little Robbie Hobbies that I have.
I also love a lot of brands
that are putting out good
content with that as well.
So things that I've bought
in the past products.
I could throw a few in like Yeti,
like Whoop love all of Whoops content.
Jamie: He's been trying to get
sponsors for at least 18 months guys.
So.
James: I know why won't they
put an advert on the pod?
Or at least invite me on theirs.
So I consume a lot of content
in a lot of different ways.
There's um, in fact, recently I've
tried to cut it down a bit so I could
get better quality content, rather
than Having a lot of content thrown at
me and not really consuming anything
just content for content's sake.
So I'm quite active on Instagram.
Not putting stuff out, but I'm more
kind of consuming a lot over Instagram
because like, I quite enjoy the
visual element of a lot of stuff.
But also podcasts they are primarily where
I will grab a lot of my content from.
What do I enjoy?
Again, it comes down to, I have a
lot of marketing stuff on there.
Um, I have a lot of, uh, small
business people I'll following as well.
There's some great podcasts around
that as well, because obviously with
things like that, it's much easier to
dive into a topic and listen to a topic
about it, which I can do while I'm out
running or walking the kids to school.
Something like that, again it's easy
to consume them so, I consume a lot.
Jamie: But The question here,
because I know what you're like.
I've asked him one question here
guys, why do you consume that?
What value is it bringing to you?
Is it educational?
James: Yeah, I think, I think there's a
massive element of addictiveness in social
media and we're all very conscious of it.
And I'm trying to be more aware
when I am waiting for something.
I will, everybody picks up the
phone out of their back pocket.
Um, And I'm more aware of
that now, a hundred percent.
Yeah, absolutely, and it's not a good
thing, and I'm, I'm certainly more aware
of that, but that's when I will pick it
up and then you go, Ooh, what can I go
to, and it will generally be a social
media thing because there'll be new
stuff in there as my phone pings off and
lets me know about a new notification.
But In terms of, uh, where I
get the most out of content.
It's probably what I save.
I use up next, which is brilliant, it's
like pocket, it's like any of these where
I can save that good article or that
good bit of information into a pocket.
I almost audit that.
So it is only the best of the best.
And that will be my time when I
can actually sit down and some of
these little snippets that you get,
which is of course what generally
social media is snippets, snippets,
snippets I will then be interested
in something and I will save that.
Every one that I save will be problem
related a really nice example I've
recently just kitted out our utility room.
And there was a few problems that I had
in there that I wanted to fix or to solve.
So I was saving a lot of content
around tips and tricks of what I
could do in terms of this cabinet.
Jamie: Do you save and forget.
Because a lot of people do.
Yeah
.
So that's interesting, isn't it?
Because it's what you want
to consume in the moment.
Yeah.
Versus what you think you
want to consume in the future?
James: Exactly.
Yeah yeah yeah and then coming back
to that, that audit process that I go
through because my time then of when
I've saved all this data is now specific.
I'll only have about an hour
where I'll go right, I'm going
to now, I've got a bit of time.
And I can whizz through it.
I'll delete a lot.
So you're right, but it is genuinely
where I have that problem I will save
it perfect, and then I will go back and
visit it and then I will audit that out.
But each piece of content is helpful
in some way or solving a problem.
Jamie: So now we've now we've
got that answer out of him guys.
James: So today's topic
is high value content.
As we kind of been over
what is high value content?
How you can produce and create high
value content for your business.
We're just going to talk around some
tips and things that we use here, what
we would call high value content, and
obviously how it can help you guys.
So, when we're talking about high
value content, have you ever thought.
Obviously we kind of
discussed what I consume.
But what is high value content?
Is it one thing is it many
things, and obviously I mentioned
podcasts, I mentioned social media.
Jamie: Sure.
James: But what would you
categorize high value contact as.
Jamie: So the reason I asked you the
question in the beginning is because to
identify what your high value content,
is you've got to deal with your audience.
It doesn't matter if you're creating
high value content that you think
is valuable because they may not.
They're the key they're the
people you're trying to engage.
They're the people you're trying to
interact with and the people you are
trying to kind of convert into sales
and customers at the end of the day.
So the most important thing you start
with, as a tool wise as your persona.
Your buyer persona, finding out
exactly where do they spend their time.
You hear people say, I need to
be on social media and they go,
okay, well where on social media?
Why why do you need to be on social media?
Because I sell Zimmer frames that 89
year olds, I want to be on TikTok.
Do you?
Is that where your audience is,
is that what they care about.
So starting there allows you to really
find out what they find valuable.
Because there we uncovered with
you, educational, some informational
stuff, some kind of those tips
and those tricks and there's
little hacks and stuff like that.
James: But I also love cats falling over.
Jamie: Exactly.
So there's the entertainment piece and
this is where it's then up to our users
the audiences to kind of almost curate and
inform the algorithms of what they like
by, what they search, what they spend the
most time on, all of this which then funny
enough, magically appears on their feed.
One thing I really want to pick up
with you there though, is, as you
said, phones or laptops, iPads have
become an extension of the human.
People are becoming very conscious of
this and they're becoming very conscious
that, their time is slipping away, either
just scrolling, screen times way too
much, it started kind of with parents
looking at their kids' screen time.
So what they're doing therefore is now
starting to curate their attention.
Attention is a currency in this world.
Because, Yeah, you can throw hundreds
and thousands at Facebook ads or
Google ads or whatever, but if
you don't have people's attention.
You're not going to sit with them
because they're going to see it.
Then they're going to get bored,
not informative, don't care off I
go, because there's so much supply.
So when you're going okay, if
they're curating this anything
that's not valuable is in the bin.
Because they're conscious of this,
and this is only going to grow
as people will start to realize
how much time they are losing.
We've all done it.
We've been on a TikTok, Instagram
Reels and you go, oh, I'll have a
look, and you go half an hour later.
James: Easy.
Jamie: Who's been there.
Yeah.
James: yeah.
Jamie: Put a hands up emoji.
If you'd been there in the comments.
James: When we, start with new clients,
we'll obviously go and assess their,
their blogs and what they've been
putting out previously and understanding
what they've been putting out into
the world, what their marketing is
looking like and again, obviously
revisiting that that buyer persona.
It's so much comes back to the buyer
persona, that it is your foundation
for any marketing, you have to have it.
Now that content is putting out a lot
of companies fall into the trap of
finding content to put out difficult.
So all of a sudden they veer away from
the buyer persona and they'll start to
put out things about them, um, Which
they think is a, is a good place now.
Sometimes it can be.
If you're kind of solving a solution
for somebody which is generally
what every business is doing, and
you're talking about yourself.
Jamie: If not, then we need
another podcast on that.
James: Yeah, exactly.
If you are talking about the awards you've
won, or the, you know, new member of
staff or we've just been on this away day.
That content sometimes has its place on
LinkedIn, social media, little snippets.
Where it is building up that
personalization of, of you.
But in terms of a blog piece that should
be helpful and solving a solution.
You're certainly not going
to save that for later.
And if you did, you're certainly not going
to read it when you find the time to, So
that's as again, has its place within the
whole marketing strategy, but that content
is not going to engage your, your buyer
persona, no matter what business it is.
Jamie: Well, this comes back to the
kind of the original question of
looking to define high value content.
And this is something that each business
should be doing, especially as part
of their marketing strategy nowadays.
We've got who through that persona.
When you're looking to define,
you got to think, okay so
what do we want out of this?
And this will ebb and flow and there'll
be different pieces of content.
So whether you're looking to attract.
Whether you're looking to engage,
whether you're looking to convert.
Okay.
So when you are looking to kind
of convert, it's all about sales.
When you're looking to attract it's
about raising that brand awareness.
When you're looking to engage,
you're trying to build that
community around the brand.
And you look at brands who have done
this really well on social media who
have a presence and and we'll probably
label it digital media because social
media now, one, it's not that social.
I'm going to say something a bit
controversial and go, actually how many
people you follow, engage with you back?
James: Very few now.
Yeah.
Yup.
Yup.
Jamie: So where are you on that stage?
And this will be different
for different people.
Are you in, are you in the attract stage?
Are you engaging them?
What are you trying to get out of them?
Because if you're trying to grab
attention, then meeting Johnny in
sales, isn't really that attractive.
Potentially hearing about 50% off
is because it's right in your face.
It's kind of going like that or big
tips to help you create high value
content may grab someone's attention.
But further down, you can
build, like when you're building
community, you want to build trust.
You want to build credibility.
So introducing Johnny at
that point may be helpful.
James: Yeah.
And That'd be ready for it.
Exactly.
As you said, so.
And high-value content you know, can not
only are you trying to fit it into those
areas of what you're trying to achieve,
but also part of that content may not
necessarily be what you're selling.
So you might be talking about how
to know let's pick something, uh,
It
Jamie: Should be an 80 20.
James: Yeah,
Jamie: You should have 80% value you're
helping 80% of the time and 20% should
be about what your product is, and
that's not a case of buy now that's
a case of did you know we do this?
James: So recently I bought an ice bath.
Jamie: Go along with
all your other gadgets.
James: Yeah, exactly, exactly, it's
amazing how many people now want
to come over and try out the ice.
Jamie: You know, you could just stand
outside in winter in the in the UK
James: Yeah, you could really just have
a cold shower as well, but how did I
get to that buying stage was a lot of
education before that, that which was.
Exactly put out by all of these and
there's a, there's a number of them.
Put out by these companies that basically
say, oh, did you know the benefits.
Sure.
So It's almost, they weren't necessarily
talking about their product and what
product could do, what the product could
achieve, what it looked like, how long it
lasts for, how cold it keeps the water.
There was none of that, they were
not talking about the product, they
were talking about the benefits for
me for having an ice bath and that
then gave me the education, I saved
a lot of those articles as well.
I was going back.
I was reading them because
it was high value content.
Then when I was into that next
point, I would kind of, I was
now almost comparing ice baths.
Then I wanted to know
something slightly different.
So my content as a shift through one of
them wanted to consume and now it's around
well, what are the benefits of each one?
And obviously there's price points that
come into it and now I'm choosing between
the companies, which one did I go for?
Interestingly, the one that was
putting out the most content around
educating me to the benefits.
Jamie: Yeah, because you then also in a
post-purchase you also knew what to do.
So you didn't think, okay, I've still got
education to do, this is where a lot of
businesses can get ahead by often before
digital media and before a lot of the
kind of internet age, you would buy a
product and then educate yourself on it.
Whereas now you can educate yourself
before you have the product to
inform whether you want the product.
Which is a massive, like a massive thing.
So we've all been there where you've
been shopping on a Gymshark an Amazon,
wherever it may be and then you go
onto a social platform and then all
of a sudden there's an advert, an
offer, whatever it may be a banner.
That is because you've already shown
shopping intent in those places.
So you're already, almost
in that conversion cycle.
But like you said, with these companies,
for the ice bath you were a zero customer.
You were completely new They had
no idea, so they knew they had to
prime you and they went, okay, we're
going to educate because that's
in line with our brand values.
And that's where businesses you don't
always need to just give customers
exactly what they want, which is
surprising because you need to stay
true to your brand because you need to
be authentic in what you're building.
Then you develop a community that is
in line with what you understand and
then you give them what they want.
James: Yeah, completely, and I
think with content, obviously we're
talking primarily what we've been
going over is social media and blogs.
Because it's, it's an easy, anybody
can pick that up and run with it.
Jamie: And it's, still trending
yeah yeah, oh, social media
yeah it's been around 20 years.
James: And again if you're writing
a piece on something bear in mind,
when you put it out on social
media, it's a snippet of that and it
would, can be a number of snippets.
So you can write one good blog
piece and put out six tweets.
Jamie: That's the repurposing job,
and this is where a lot of businesses
struggle because they think.
I don't have time.
Yeah, how do I have time?
If you create a macro piece of content,
like a podcast, like a YouTube video.
Then you can take those snippets that
James is talking about and pop them on a
TikTok, pop them on Instagram Reel, tweet
a little bit of a word, have an Instagram
story or carousel community posts.
Anyone who doesn't listen
to or watch Steven Bartlett,
what he does is phenomenal.
Gary Vaynerchuk as well has done brilliant
stuff with this in terms of utilizing
content, I appreciate some people go
oh, these people have big teams and
stuff, yes, but the vision and for that
will have come from them in terms of
how they purpose that content, yeah.
exactly.
James: Yeah and I think with that the
content is, uh, is, is key, but getting
out all of those bits, it doesn't have
to also be a time-specific a lot of the
time, if your problem, it can change.
I know but as a whole, if you're solving
that problem with a product that in six
months, time is probably depending on your
business could still be the same problem.
So you can still go back and re target
the same amount of content and repurpose
that content again and again and again,
because it's still going to be valid.
So
People have the same problems.
Yeah, exactly, I get that's a massive
blanket and some problems may change.
We have a really good ebook around, uh,
getting started with inbound marketing.
Inbound marketing that philosophy hasn't
changed since I think inception of
inbound marketing, it's the same idea.
Jamie: Most like outbound
probably hasn't changed.
James: He hasn't changed.
And that PDF still converts really highly
for us, and we have, we haven't changed
the content within that PDF for about
three years, because it's the same thing.
So we can still keep that going.
And then if you take that in terms of
exactly, as Jamie says, that people
who say we haven't got time to do it,
you're adding into it, you're adding
the next one, you're adding, adding,
adding, and all of this time you are
adding more content, that is again,
coming back to high value content
and you're adding the more layers.
Um, And it's a rinse and repeat, you can
then see which ones are working, which
topics are working, which topics aren't.
And over time you can be, you can turn
into this engine that is producing the
right content for your buyer persona.
Jamie: Sure.
Um,
I mean, it doesn't happen overnight and
you have to learn about much like dating.
You have to learn about the
person and it takes time.
James: It's good.
I was interesting to see
where you're going with that.
Jamie: It takes time like yeah, you
don't get married on the first date.
James: Nope.
You got to build up that relationship.
Jamie: Yeah.
You've got to build up the understanding.
You've got to understand each
other's pains, each other's gaps,
each other's strengths so you can
see if you compliment each other.
How they work, is there alignment?
It's very, very much like that
James: One really quick win for
that if you want to understand
somebody quickly from a marketing
point of view, speak to sales.
They are frontline, they are talking
to these people who are going all I've
got this question, I've got this pain
point, I don't know why this is working.
They're going to have to answer all
of those to get that sale complete.
So if you speak to them and say, well,
what problems are you having this week?
What questions are people asking
this week, you can then go back
and you've almost shortcutted a
lot of the troubles that you're
having in terms of what content to
produce, answer those questions.
Put a pod together, put a blog
together, put a snippet out that is,
that is helping answer that questions.
Then you can almost go back to sales
and go we've helped you out here.
Here's Here's a link to his blog that
we've put out, which is actually answering
these questions that you're getting.
So when then next on the phone and
they get combated with that question,
you can go well actually we've written
something to help you through this the
content I'll follow up with an email.
Jamie: Yeah.
And then You become your own ecosystem.
James: Yeah
Jamie: Completely yeah.
James: Yeah.
Jamie: Is it quantity or quality
because that happens all the time.
James: Oh, Which
Jamie: one is it?
James: Both all the time
both, it's it is good quality
content, consistently produced.
Jamie: Yeah, and this is the thing
is there'll be loads of Instagram
posts, loads of YouTube videos
all about this from kind of social
media marketers and or marketeers,
depending on how you want to say it.
James: That could be another pod.
Jamie: Um, The thing is with these
platforms there are algorithms beat
the algorithm, yeah I go against
the algorithm, yeah, yeah, exactly.
What's my best time?
what day, and this, this stuff is
important, but the algorithms do
play a part, and if you're there
more in showing up more for your
audience, these things take notice.
Yeah.
Again, attention of your audience.
If you're not there, when
they're expecting you to show
up, they've got other options,
they will go to someone else.
I know James, for example has a, and this
is an offline addition has recently been
to, uh, kind of, one of these trade shows.
There was one company here, and it
was doing something for his attention
and a company he knew well wasn't
doing something for his attention.
Guess who he went with.
Um, that's offline.
So the power and the speed
of our online is even more.
James: Yeah and with that you know, if
you're going to put out shit content,
you could put it out at two o'clock in
the afternoon or five to five and your
engagement will be exactly the same.
Jamie: Yeah.
And the beautiful thing is now is
when you are starting, your content
is meant to be shit and this is
the problem that people people get.
People look at stuff they aspire
to be, and they look at people's
level 20, and at their level one
they think they should be there.
And this is, this is where people
start because progress happens by that
quantity element, when you do more
quantity, your quality then becomes it
because you've perfected your craft.
Well, not even perfected
you've progressed.
Even the guys who are the Stephen
Bartletts the Gary Vaynerchuks as I spoken
about, they will look at that content
and go we can do this better because they
aren't perfect, they are progress and
they're quite willing of that journey.
James: You take our podcast, is a prime
example I'm still not saying it's level
20 by any means, and we are still on
a massive learning journey with it.
But if you go back and listen to our
first episode that we just got out.
Um, we have learned so much from that
first episode to where we are now.
That said.
Jamie: To get co-hosts was the main.
James: I mean, as soon as we
as soon as the co-host landed.
So we're still learning, we're still
on that journey, but we're improving.
And the more feedback we're getting
from you guys, the better we are, the
more information you're giving us,
and we do get some amazing feedback.
Um, and people are listening
to it, people are enjoying the
content that we're putting out.
But with every time we're learning that
we go and improve it we go and revisit
it, we think that we can include.
Um, And that's what it is it is
a journey, don't expect to be
absolutely nailing it on day one.
But if you're coming back to what
people want, what people are wanting
to achieve, what your buyer persona
is looking for, what problems
you're trying to solve for them.
You're not going to be far off,
you're just going to be able
to improve and optimize that
content and get better at it.
But don't worry about falling over
that the first hurdle, if you've gone
to your buyer persona and understood
what they want, then it's better to get
something out that you think is right.
Sure.
And that content is you think helpful
because you're going to learn from
that and then it might be perfect,
and then you can build on that.
It might be wrong, or It might be
slightly hitting the mark you can learn
from that and that's what it's about.
It's understanding the needs.
Jamie: That you can learn from success
and you learn more from failure.
Yeah, but you learn at every stage
along the way, and the beautiful thing
is now you don't need a 4,000 pound
microphone or a 15,000 pound camera.
Pick up your phone, we've already spoken
about them, go behind the scenes, talk to
them, we've seen some of these hilarious
TikToks, just in random office buildings.
I know one of James his funniest ones, is
whether it's like, shit, shit, shit, shit.
The TikTok person's here.
Um, but you can have fun with it.
Enjoy it.
It doesn't have to be a
huge production value.
You don't need Leonardo di Caprio to
be in your new dog food commercial.
You need a dog, like.
Yeah.
Not always.
But, um, that that's the really
important thing, one element we really
want to make sure though to ensure
everyone's walking away with as much
value is some recommended resources
that People are walking away from
our podcasts where, because it's
not all about us, and there are so
many people we've quoted them today.
One thing I would say is definitely go
and check out Steven Bartlett's podcast.
Uh, What he does in terms of interviewing
his various guests There's something
for everyone, whether it's health,
whether it's business, whether it's
relationships, whether it's personal
progress, it's really really cool.
Um, I'm a big fan of it.
So the diary of the CEO, Steven
Bartlett is a really good one.
Um, I'd also go and get the
book for all the business slash
marketing managers, the visual MBA.
Um, Jason Barron.
Great book guy did an MBA realized
taking notes wasn't for him,
so sketch noted everything.
So for any of the entrepreneurs,
the creatives out there,
definitely one for you.
I think it's about 10 quid
James: I have a few books that live
on my desk that is one of them,
and it has so many post-it notes
tucked in within it so I can just
open it up and go straight to it.
But yeah, I, uh, it was actually
your recommendation and it is
a fantastic book that you can,
it's an enjoyable book as well.
Like really super enjoyable
but really informative.
Jamie: Sure.
And then the last one is
an app called artifacts.
Which allows you to tailor news
and updates and stuff just for you.
So whether it's the stock market,
you're interested in sports, the
auto industry, whatever it may be,
it means that you get put in front
of you the news you want to see.
So you're staying up to date, you're
staying in the loop, but you're not
seeing the stupid, latest about Donald
Trump when you really just couldn't care
but you're seeing about the biggest.
Aubegine that was grown in Ipswich
the other day, whatever matters to
you, because that is making sure you
are consuming high value content.
If we can make you a creator rather than a
consumer but what you consume high value,
then that's going to be a massive win.
James: We will drop all
of that in the show notes.
Uh, But to finish off I wanted
to give you an actionable step.
So go away and define what high value
content looks like for your business.
Well, this new strategy
that you're going for.
So that's it be sure to subscribe
for more tips and insights
on growing your business?
Uh, Thanks for tuning in and
until next time, happy marketing.
Now, remember that you can always drop
us any comments directly to our email
address podcast@hellomethod.co.uk.