The Chocolate Chip Cookie with Johnny Norton, Co-Owner of Culture Espresso

Forty bakeries were invited. Two hundred judges. A blind taste test, an open bar, and a few Michelin-starred kitchens in the field. Culture Espresso won first place, and Johnny has been hanging his hat on it ever since. "It was also a great opportunity to tease our friends in a Michelin-starred kitchen that one day they'll catch up."

The recipe hasn't changed in seventeen years.

Tiffany Pham sits down with him over the cookie that keeps winning. He is clear that there is no trick to it: "no shtick other than really high quality." French ingredients, small batches all day so nothing sits, and a flat refusal to get more efficient. People have told him for years he's foolish to use an ingredient that expensive, or that a machine could replace half the staff. "We haven't made a single stride towards efficiency."

The route there was not a bakery. He was a bookseller, then a teenage drummer who toured with punk bands and worked in cafés between tours. He got obsessed with coffee in the years before you could learn it on Instagram, when you had to find a secret coffee wizard and train with him. He was young and could not get a lease in Midtown on his own. His business partner Jody LoCascio had met the landlord of this building in a bar and been offered a good deal on it, and Johnny talked his way in with a pitch to run the coffee program.

The idea he keeps returning to is one he borrowed from the Eameses: the best, for the most, for the least. He knows a six-dollar cookie isn't the least. "But I'd like to think that both Eames and ourselves made it as fair as we could while trying to make it as best as we could."

Savor with Tiffany Pham, a Representation production, is a companion to the television docuseries premiering May 2027. Cinematography by: Kym Pham.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Meeting Johnny: "the best chocolate chip cookies in New York"
00:40 "Cookies are like pizza and bagels"
00:53 Forty bakeries, two hundred judges, one blind taste test
01:36 Teasing the Michelin-starred kitchen
02:15 "No shtick other than really high quality"
02:38 The crunch on the outside
03:40 "We haven't altered this recipe in 17 years"
04:07 A group effort, and Jody's sourdough
05:01 "The longer I was a barista, the better a barista I wanted to be"
05:21 "We were going to be way too serious. Only coffee."
06:02 Seeking out the best ingredients
06:43 "We haven't made a single stride towards efficiency"
07:08 Small batches, and waiting five minutes
07:57 Punk bands, touring, and working in a cafe between tours
08:40 Before Instagram: finding a secret coffee wizard
09:21 Signing a lease in Midtown at 24
10:00 "Coffee felt like the working man's wine"
11:04 Meeting Jody through a drummer
12:05 The Eames idea: the best, for the most, for the least
12:53 "If it ain't broke": on burrata, and not chasing a trend
14:11 Three stores in 17 years, all within three blocks
15:15 Fourteen-hour days, and delivering cookies by bicycle through COVID
15:59 "Now I have a one year old that is the light of my life"
16:55 The chemical engineer he met over nachos
18:25 Mornings with his son, and the scone he's chasing
19:43 Rapid fire: pho at Two Wheels
20:52 Burger: Red Hook Tavern, and J.G. Melon
21:32 Noodles: Xi'an, and the COVID noodle kits
22:30 Cinnamon roll: Sunday Morning. Pizza: Christy's in Greenpoint
23:44 The bookseller, and the cookbook he's still writing
24:47 After the interview: everyone wants the free consultation
25:16 Yale, Harvard, and a ninth-grade dropout in a Harvard shirt
25:51 The case study they still teach
27:00 "I used to be embarrassed I dropped out. Now I don't care"
28:46 "My life right now is so much better than I ever imagined"
30:17 The Rolex, his father, and what it means to pass something down
32:03 The Plaza, and an immigrant child's bucket list
32:48 "It's so much easier than people say it is"
34:09 "It was great talking to you", and goodbye

ABOUT CULTURE ESPRESSO
Culture Espresso — cultureespresso.com

🎬 The Savor with Tiffany Pham docuseries premieres May 1, 2027
🌐 savortheuniverse.com

Creators and Guests

Host

Tiffany Pham

Host of Savor with Tiffany Pham. Founder of Savor the Universe and Wall Street Journal bestselling author.

JN

Guest

Johnny Norton

What is Savor with Tiffany Pham?

Savor with Tiffany Pham is a Representation original podcast where host Tiffany Pham sits down with the most iconic chefs of today over the one dish that made them famous.

Each episode, Tiffany and her guest share their signature plate together, and while they eat, they get into everything behind it: the life, the dreams, the journey, and the moment a dish became a legacy. It's a conversation you can taste.

Season One premieres September 1, 2026. Follow now so you're at the table for the first course.

I'm so excited to be here with you. I'm
excited to have you here. It's so

wonderful to spend time with you.

because I'm excited that we're going to be
eating your cookies together which are

largely known as some of the best
chocolate chip cookies in New York City,

if not the best. And so really excited to
dive in with you on what makes your

chocolate chip cookies so delightful and
incredible. And then...

And then really dive into your own
personal journey as well towards savoring

life, where you are today, finding
fulfillment. I appreciate that.

that yeah I mean you know I always say
that cookies are like pizza and bagels you

know the arguments never gonna be settled
and I'm certainly not a an objective judge

I certainly like ours the most but a few
years ago there was a large blind taste

40 bakeries were invited, 200 judges, blind
taste test, and we won first place. So

that's often been the one that we hang our
hat on.

doing that, a couple of Michelin star
chefs have been invited to compete as well

and to be frank, I didn't necessarily
think we were gonna win. There was an open

bar and all the proceeds were going to
charities so we thought why not? We ended

up winning first and we couldn't have been
more proud

of everybody to help and it also was a
great opportunity to tease our friends in

the Michelin Star kitchen that one day
they'll catch up. It's amazing, it's

amazing and I actually have to tell you
something which is that we have a platform

saver which actually is looking at the
reviews across all critics, all users.

everyone from across the world analyzes it
all and kind of therefore concurs with its

algorithm and everything to find what is
actually the best considered dish of that

category and yours is the one for
chocolate and cookie.

music to our ears. So shall we dive in?
Can we talk about your cooking and what is

special about it? What are the details
around it? You know, I really like the

idea of there not being more of a shtick
other than really high quality. So for me

it's like if you're growing

good baker.

If I was a chocolate chip cookie I would
want her to bake. I love a crunchy bite.

On the outside.

outside so you know my possible hot take
is I like the cookies more when they cool

down than when they're hot because I love

bite into chew. It's like the exterior
crunch there.

for the kind of rich chocolate.

happiness.

And I love the perfect amount of chocolate
in it that he says out. It's so delicious.

Which can be We

That can be divisive. We've certainly been
accused of using too much shop sometimes.

So there was a brief period.

There was a brief period where we made the
cookie with no chocolate.

What's been the next essential question of
what makes a chocolate chip cookie?

But yeah, for us this is the perfect
amount of chocolate. I think it's balanced

out by how crunchy it is.

We haven't altered this recipe in 17
years.

And we've always been really happy with
it.

answer to that is there was a group
effort. You know I would love to take

credit for it and say that I dreamed it up
one day but the truth is many hands went

into making it succeed. First and foremost
my business partner Jody who is low-key

one of the best sourdough bakers in New
York City. He refuses to sell his

sourdough because he says he knows too
much about it to try to sell it. So God

bless those people who can put out so many
loaves. But I would say he was the one who

initially got the recipe together.

and then all of us put our time and energy
into making it.

making it as good as we possibly could.

I was a barista for many years and the
longer I was a barista, the better a

barista I wanted to be.

I've already

and looking into the importing side.

We weren't going to do any baked goods at
all. We wanted to be the most serious, way

too serious, only coffee. Our pastry case
over there was going to be a siphon bar

and just coffee. And 17 years ago when we
opened we quickly realized that

It's not a good business model. We wanted
to provide some something for people to

eat. We thought we would be able to do a
good job with the cookie. It didn't seem

too intimidating. So for the first 14
years, the only thing we made was a choc

chip cookie and an oatmeal cookie.

two we felt we had nailed. I love that
simplicity. Does that focus on quality and

delivery? You know, that sort of
philosophy I feel like has never failed

us. It's the same way we applied a
sourcing copy or a sourcing mail because

we tried to seek out.

the best ingredients we could find and
make it in very annoyingly laborious and

handmade method and came out just how we
like it. We've been told many times over

the years that it's foolish of us to use a
certain ingredient because it's so

expensive or you can buy these machines
that automate half the process and get rid

of half of our staff and we haven't made a
single stride towards efficiency. And I

feel like we can't take it off. I think I
even saw that you make chocolate chip

cookies every hour to like keep it

always be serving more cookies.

We bake in incredibly small batches, which
sometimes can be really stressful for the

staff when they're trying to get ahead of
the curve. But we really try to do our

best to ensure people.

We'd rather somebody wait five minutes and
have the best cookies of their life than

instantly get an okay cookie.

I think it's worth it.

So you were telling me that you have a
journey whereby you started out

education. This is a cushion.

Nature

teenager I played in punk rock bands.

concern.

main concern and so most of my teenage
years and early 20s I would join a band,

go on tour and

work

on tour and when we weren't on tour I
would work in a cafe and as the years went

on

years went on, I

They want to be on the road quite as much.

quite as much. So when I was a barista, I
got a little obsessed with trying to find

out the most that I could about coffee.
And at the time, for you

to free Instagram. It was a lot harder to
find that information. It felt like you

had to find a secret coffee wizard and
train with him. So I... - What kind of

thing was that? - Well, you know, for me,
it wound up being Duane Sorenson, the

founder of Stumptown Coffee.

jobs I could just I just wanted to be a
sponge and taste as much coffee as I could

and the farther I went down that path the
more I started learning about food in

general and how that related both in
supply chains and as well as constructing

a dish.

Eventually, I realized I wanted to open up
my own cafe. And it was very difficult to

do as a young barista to sign a lease in
Midtown Manhattan.

Jody, who's my business partner, met the
landlord of this building at a bar and

they were having a conversation. He found
out that he already owned a coffee shop.

He offered him this lease at a great deal.
And the long story short is once I met

Jody, I convinced him to join up with me.

And together we were... - I also have
coffee though that kind of burst attracted

me so much. - The honest truth is, it's
nothing more complex other than I loved

coffee. And I really liked that to me it
felt like the working man's wine. You

know, like the absolute best cup of coffee
in the world may cost you $20. Which

sounds like a lot of money for a cup of
coffee.

But if you compare that to line or spirits
or any other number

like a tasty menu restaurant. It's really
approachable. So when I was young, I felt

like I could go in really deep on coffee.

coffee. Plus I just drank a lot of coffee.

It really blew my mind when I started
seeing the amount of work that went into

producing.

introducing a cup of coffee and I wanted
to participate in that.

and

He had signed this lease and was starting
the cafe and I basically gave him a pitch

that I wanted to come on board and help
him with his coffee program. I met Jody

through a friend of mine who's another
drummer from a

wonderful band called Shellshag. Oh yeah,
of course. Yeah, they're like a low-key

iconic punk band. Yeah, absolutely. And
one of my punk bands was on their label

and Jody had played with them and she
said, "You gotta meet this guy Jody. We

met, we hit it off."

Yeah, somehow I talked him into letting me
take a bit of the helm of the business.

And then over the years, we've learned a
lot about baking and about running a

business. And if nothing else, one of the
main things we learned is...

If you generally apply the philosophy of
trying to make the absolute best thing you

can as fairly as you can, it's going to
resonate with people. You know, like the

Eames designers always said they strive to
make things the best for the most for the

least. And I was always really inspired by
that.

That's the most felic I love that. Isn't
that cool? Which, you know, I'm sure

people will complain a six dollar cookie
is not the least and neither is a four

hundred dollar chair. But I would like to
think that both Eames and ourselves made

it as fair as we could while trying to
make it as best as we could. And you know,

I think we all deserve like a little
luxury like that.

So you said that you innovated on this
recipe initially, but that it hasn't

actually changed for over 14 years. So
it's been a hit winner all those years. It

has. And you know, there's a bit of a
debate, bro, don't fix it there. Both Jody

and myself, I think, are very interested
in

creative food offerings. So we'll
frequently come up with a new dish.

will announce it online, sometimes we
don't.

that creative itch there. But I think it's
been the right choice to let this cookie

be what it is and not try to alter it too
much. Sometimes you see a dish even that

is so of the moment. You know, I love
burrata. It's one of my favorite

ingredients. I'm not a burrata hater.

But right now you see burrata on every
menu, everywhere. And you almost feel bad

for the guys who have been doing burrata
since the beginning. But that's why I feel

about we try not to hop on a trend if it's
fleeting. Absolutely. And so where are you

now with everything? I mean, you got...

You open up a few more stores, I think I
see. Are you working 24-7?

for everything to work in and then you get
to relax a little bit and then have

oversight for where you at.

in 17 years, all within three blocks. So
it kind of feels like one store. Because

every day of my life I try to touch all
three stores, which is hopefully more

helpful than annoying, but anybody who's
worked in a restaurant knows it's a little

bit of both.

As far as what's next, we've always said
never say never. If the perfect spot comes

along for a store for, we would consider
it, but we're not in a rush to do it at

all. I feel really happy and I think we're
able to keep all the staff really happy.

It's a small enough cruise.

that a lot of people are friends here and
they enjoy taking care of each other. And

I think it shows the way we treat
customers.

You're savoring life now and you're at a
place where you're enjoying things or

where you are. Yeah, I mean for me
personally, I used to work in the store

nearly 14 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.
Over the years I've learned how to plumb

things, learned how to do some electrical
work.

Especially during COVID. That's so mean by
the way these days, that's skill. You

gotta know how to fix your own stuff.
During COVID I was operating the store

seven days a week from seven to seven and
at the end of my work day I would get on

my bicycle and deliver cookies all over
the city to anyone who ordered them and

then after that I would come back.

to start making the dough for the next
day. So I put a lot of years in of doing

those ridiculous chef hours. But now I
have a one year old that is the light of

my life.

You're gonna, I'm in the shop way less
than usual. And now you're living on the

Upper West Side. On the Upper West Side,
which is a great place for kids. And you

know, we've built a team here that can
carry the store. I don't have to be in

here every day. And yeah, I couldn't be
happier.

and I think if you had told me that I
would be able to build a happy life for

myself

Ice

20 years ago. I love that. That's amazing.

in the culinary world as well.

She has a degree in chemical engineering
from Columbia, so she is pretty much the

opposite origin story as me. But she
wanted to be a food scientist. And I met

her at a Mexican restaurant. She was
having a margarita with friends. I was

having nachos with friends. And you know,
I went up and asked her if she'd like

to...

go to a nicer restaurant. Wow. Which at
the time to me, all I could think of was

Peter Luger. I thought, oh this is the
fanciest place I've ever heard of at the

time. But one year later I proposed to
Peter Luger. Oh that's so sweet. So he's

been married since and his fangirl. And
you know a little off track

from baking, but whenever I'm reading a...
There is genuine scientific papers about

coffee, especially produced in the last
five years. She's my secret weapon behind

the scenes in helping me understand how to
operate a laser refractometer or read any

sort of sciencey sounding paper. - I love
that. I have to meet her at the moment. -

Yeah, you'll love her. - That's very
sciencey. You know, all those parts of me

that I love that. - Yeah, absolutely. -
And so what's your idea

I love to try to... What time is that?
6am? 7am? He sleeps 7am, 7 days a week. Oh

my god. It's very easy to make. He's like
a... Yeah, he's like a... It's a breeze.

Opposite of a bakery time. It's way easier
than operating a bakery. I like to get

here pretty early and work on a morning
pastry. I've been obsessed with scones

over the last year. Some dead set on
trying to nail... Have you tried marios?

Oh yeah, delicious. Yeah. Delicious.

I actually tracked down my favorite stone
baker from 20 years ago and convinced him

to come to New York and mentor me. You're
very good at that. Persistence, you know.

(laughing)

But anyway, I like to come here early in
the morning, do some baking, get home,

spend most of the day with my son.

Take a nice walk to the city, come back,
have an espresso.

That's perfect life for me.

favorite place to go to for... for it.

favorite fob.

I'm aware that I'm not necessarily a
thought expert. But in the Upper West

Side, I think that Two Wheels does a
fantastic job. And they do a really cool

fall sandwich that they call French Dip.

So good! I love that spot. I'm so glad you
mentioned them. I think they're so

underrated. And I, as a Vietnamese expert,
am not far. I feel validated. Yeah,

absolutely. You should because I feel like
I have a strong and pretty good opinion of

all the best of all across the city. I
constantly think to myself like, well, two

wheels, they do a great job.

sandwich, a banh mi, a com tam, a bun bo
hue, like all the various dishes they try

to do, they do really well at. The best
for the most of these. Yeah, totally. In

fact, next time you're in there, you'll
probably see me trying to pester the owner

to open a spot in Midtown. Because I'm
like, dude, I need you here.

I'm sure we've bumped into each other
there actually. What is your favorite

burger in the city? I'm gonna have to go
with the same answer that many people do

right now which is Red Hook Tavern. That
being said my old-school favorite burger

is J.G. Melon.

My hot take is I don't like their cottage
fries, but I love that burger and the

whole experience of going to a cash only
spot where they're not that nice to you.

It feels like a time capsule and so Red
Hook Tavern are the best burger, J.G.

Melon for maybe the most fun to go to.

And what about the hand pulled noodles?
Xi'an hands down. I mean, Xi'an, during

COVID, I was so worried about them. And
they started selling these made hand

pulled noodle kits at home. And it was so
much fun. Everybody was making sourdough.

I was trying to go down a hand pulled
noodle route where they gave you, you

know, the ingredients, you stretch the
dough and you slap

your apartment. I hope they bring this
kits back because I'll be first in line.

Amazing. I think they're bringing back a
lot of different amazing.

amazing cool products. Chili Crisp. They
have a drink sign coming up. They have a

bunch of different incredible things. But
yeah, Jason, you match.

you match me and have any to a lovely
color. - I can't wait to hang out. Also,

what a icon as far as the signage he puts
in his store. Where he has a little photo

and he says, "You gotta get it spicy." I
was like, respect. - Totally.

Favorite cinnamon roll?

I think I gotta go Sunday morning. Very
good. That's a taro mondo bag. And what

about your favorite pizza? Christy's Pizza
in Greenpoint. Christy's Pizza to me is

like the perfect pizza and it's not
overly...

It's made with a lot of care, made with a
lot of love. It feels like the sort of

place you could stumble into and just be
shocked that it was as good as it is.

They've gotten so much attention online
and I think the owner there did not intend

to do it, which is part of what I love.

You know, I feel like as an operator I can
see when I walk in a business like, oh

this business came from a boardroom of
some people trying to create a viral

thing. It's like, no, first seat is the
real deal. And yeah, it's my favorite

pizza. - Amazing. - That being said, I got
married at Roberta's. So I also love

Roberta's. - It's a proposal at Peter
Luger.

marriage and performance. And what's your
big dream? What's your big dress dream?

Well, you know, I mean, I think in the
long term, prior to getting into coffee, I

was a bookseller. And as all booksellers
are, I'm, you know, an amateur author. So

So, you know, when I'm not baking and it's
early morning, I'm up anyway, I'm always

bending away on the long-awaited opus of a
cookbook/a couple of fun stories. So my

So my big dream is to eventually put out a
book

big dream is to eventually put out a book
and that way...

In my own TV show, obviously.

And that way, you know, any excuse to be
able to rub elbows with Alison Roman too

is going to be great. She's amazing. She's
so cool.

I'm like, I'm not going to spend 80 hours
coaching you. And I don't want to ask you

of that.

She's really good.

get a coffee there and I swear I'll leave
it to 20 minutes.

You must have.

So I went to Yale and Harvard Business
School. No way! Cool! You know what's

funny? I own a Harvard shirt. Oh, do you?
Because I think...

like this.

That's like the ultimate.

And my wife always tees me. She went to
Columbia. I'm a ninth grade dropout. And

she's like, "Why do you wear a Harvard
shirt?" And I'm like, "It's in the Upper

West Side. Everybody assumes I win." I get
to feel like I'm smart. That's so cool.

That's amazing. You are a hard worker from
young age.

Definitely. God, I'm jealous of that. Oh,
thanks. But yeah, I loved it. And it's

funny, you know, actually, the professors
there, they wrote a case study. We,

there's something called the case study
where they use that as a material for each

class. And each class you cover one case
study. So you cover like 40 case studies

of the class.

course of here. And the professors wrote a
case study on my life journey actually

about a decade ago. So every single year
the students study my life journey and my

career for like the last decade. And the
case study always ended with like now that

she started this huge firm, etc, etc, what
should she do next? And so for a decade I

would hear all the students discuss that
based on

my journey so far, what should I do next?
So it was funny, in a way, I was kind of

giving you a taste of that taste. What
should you do next? That discussion kind

of illuminating some of your own potential
and your own talents ahead. Anyways, it

was great. That's so cool. I love hearing
that. I had a friend who went to Harvard.

And I went and visited her and I was so
excited to meet people, you know, from

there. When I was younger, when I used to
be really embarrassed of saying I dropped

out of high school, now I don't care. I
think it's so cool. It's like a cool,

cool, cool person. And also, you've proven
yourself by a way of being on the spot.

Yeah, it's like, I'm successful enough
now. So that's kind of a cool thing. Yeah,

totally. You can kind of get to that point
where... But I used to always say I had a

degree in West African literature. Because
when I was a bookseller, that was my

favorite book.

So I was well read enough that if anybody
was like, "Oh, what do you think of the

Iliad?" I could be like, you know, I could
give an opinion. I love that. Wait, did we

catch that part? What's now what Wadi just
said about the West Africa? Okay, perfect.

But, you know, and so, and when I went to
Harvard, I did meet somebody who was

studying African literature and...

It was such a fun highlight for me.

to talk with somebody and pretend like I
was formerly educated in it.

coincidence

In your particular episode we'll be going
around the neighborhood, our

mid-districts, the bed of

some of the African dance classes. You're
way cooler! You gotta be older like kind

of tie in to bring your dance first. Yeah,
so cool! But you just said and yeah.

It's so cool! It's a dress on everything
here. It's been kind of impossible of

taking a break out store.

much more for you

TV, everything. Everything's coming in.

I always say it's like, and I mean this
from the bottom of my heart, it's like my

life

My life right now is so much better than I
had ever imagined it would be.

that everything now is just a great bonus.

Oh my goodness you're so cute! Look how
cute! That's so cute! That's so fun.

That's what I'm gonna be working on next.
Oh yeah? Yeah. In the plan? In the plan.

After all my TV and films are done, we
have a film coming out as well.

voluntary film.

My own story is I grew up in Paris.

So years old, settled in. I know Texas of
all places.

on TV shows like Friends, I Love Lucy, I
would see Gilmore Girls at Yale, so I went

up to Yale.

So I went up to Yale, saw Harvard on the
Bigelig Wands, went up to the Bigelig

Wands, Harvard, and so kind of followed my
life at the path for inspiration of ROTD.

I'm going to be doing a partini.

as well and it inspires

and inspire so many millions of people to
go to the airport.

I mean it's why like, you know, I hope I'm
not keeping you terribly long. I like, I

have a Rolex watch. This is like my prized
possession, right? And when I was a

teenager, I was like obsessed with buying
fake Rolexes because it felt like such an

sustainable dream to own.

something that as a younger person in a
high school dropout, I thought was just an

unattainable amount of wealth. And then
the older I got, the more that I thought

about something like that, not just as a
frivolous flex, but a genuine metaphor for

intergenerational poverty.

My father died homeless and that was a big
reason why I was a dropout.

away.

I was like when I finally was able

I finally was able to work hard enough to
get this. I would think if my father

had...

in the 70s.

these now it would be worth $30,000 but if
his grandfather had bought a Rolex in the

50s it would be worth $80,000 and it's
really a to me a moment

To me a moment of like financial literacy
and planning for the future that you're

going to be able to pass something down to
your child.

I was a huge Chief Keef fan. So a lot of
what I envisioned as success initially

came from music that I liked as a
teenager. And to be honest, sometimes I

still feel like embarrassed when I wear
it. I'm like, it's too fancy. But it means

a lot to me.

It's kind of an awkward story to tell but
it's a real story though. The plaza was

the same thing for me. It was kind of like
a child's dream, immigrant child's bucket

list. Dreaming up New York, the pinnacle
of New York. And I was like, I'm gonna do

it. And now I don't have that. I don't
need that anymore because I could have

called that.

and I know what it felt like and it wasn't
me in the end. It was a little too ornate

to everything. But for me it felt like a
symbol to myself and that was important.

And now I can be me and free of that and
I'm glad I did it and I cherish it.

I relate to

gesturing towards you. So are you married?
- No, but dating now. - Dating? Go ahead,

go ahead. My thing that I love to tell all
my friends who don't have kids yet, it's

so much easier than people say it is. - Oh
yeah? Okay. - There's like this societal

trope where when people say you're gonna
have kids, they're like,

I'm so sorry your life's about to be down.
And I think it's one of those things

people just get used to saying. - Yeah. -
You know, and so far I've been like, this

has been the funnest year of my life. - I
love that. It might be because you're a

good operator, by the way. Because I feel
like I'm a good operator, so we're good at

project managing. - Totally. And just
keeping an optimistic attitude. And I'm

aware that many people have different
lives that may make

And I certainly understand that but having
like a ridiculously optimistic attitude

about like he wakes up at 2 a.m. and you
got to go snuggle the cutest thing in the

world. It's not that bad. You know? I've
had to come stop a leak at 4 a.m. before.

That's bad. Anyway, it was great talking
to you.

Well, thank you so much.

It's so fun hanging out,
spending time together.

Yeah, please stop by anytime.
It's a pleasure.