Why Your Anxiety Isn’t Getting Better (Even When You’re Doing Everything Right)

🎙️ Episode 60: Why Your Anxiety Isn’t Getting Better (Even When You’re Doing Everything Right)

What if your anxiety isn’t improving because you’re trying too hard to fix it?
In this episode of the Lion Counseling Podcast, Mark Odland and Zack Carter introduce a powerful shift in how to approach anxiety—drawing from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). Instead of battling your thoughts and emotions, they walk through a practical framework for stepping back, gaining clarity, and taking action rooted in your values—not your feelings.

Through a live coaching moment, Mark opens up about anxiety surrounding his son’s injury and future in sports, offering a real-time demonstration of how these tools actually work in real life.

✅ In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ How trying to “fix” anxiety can actually make it worse
✅ The difference between acceptance vs. giving up
✅ A simple 3-step process to create distance from anxious thoughts
✅ How to stop being controlled by your emotions and start living by your values
✅ Why anxiety, urges, and negative thoughts come in “waves”—and how to ride them
✅ A practical method to decide who you want to be in the moment
✅ How faith, courage, and identity can guide your actions—even in uncertainty

📘 Get Mark's Free Book
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👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/books/

📞 Book a Clarity Call
👉 https://escapethecagenow.com/call/

💬 Comment below:
What’s one situation where you’ve been trying to control your anxiety—and what would it look like to act on your values instead?

Click here to watch a video of this episode.’
About the Lion Counseling Podcast
The Lion Counseling Podcast is designed for high-achieving men who want to break free from destructive patterns, strengthen their mindset, and live with clarity, purpose, and conviction. Blending psychology, faith, and real-world application, each episode equips you with tools to lead yourself, your family, and your life with strength.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mark Odland

Founder of Lion Counseling, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist

Host

Zack Carter

Zack Carter is a Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling LLC.

What is Lion Counseling Podcast?

The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.

Zack Carter: 00:00

So we diffuse him away. They're like, Who do you want to be? Anxiety comes back. It's like, We can rinse and repeat. Okay.

Zack Carter: 00:07

I'm noticing the anxieties coming in as I try to determine who I want to be in this moment. And so we're not fighting with the anxiety. We're just like, okay, there it is again. It's like a it's like a cloud passing in the sky. We can't fight with the cloud.

Zack Carter: 00:20

It's just there. Right. Yeah, it's just there. All right, cool. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 00:25

Who do you want to be in this moment knowing that that's a thing that could happen?

Mark Odland: 00:31

Yeah. I mean, think the truth is I want to want to live as someone who lives by faith and it can accept that life life can be hard and has its risks but you can't like wrap them in bubble wrap and try to shelter them from all danger because that's going to mess them up. Yeah and I think that's where the anxiety was creeping in is just ironically trying to accept or realizing that oh man I have to accept that. Yeah I have to by me saying I want to live by faith means I have to I'm accepting that I'm going to embrace uncertainty because faith isn't the same as certainty. Welcome to the Lion Counseling Podcast.

Mark Odland: 01:24

I'm Mark Odland, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified EMDR therapist and I'm joined by Zack Carter, counselor and coach. What if your anxiety isn't getting better because you're trying to fix it? You check your body constantly. You worry about AI, politics, the future. A lot of people are doing everything right and they still feel stuck.

Mark Odland: 01:51

Zack Carter, you've got some, good stuff for us today. You're gonna help us to, figure out how to, fix our anxiety, right? But without trying so hard to fix

Zack Carter: 02:00

it maybe, I don't know. I'm curious. Yeah. Trying to fix something without fixing it. Like, what the heck does that mean?

Zack Carter: 02:07

Yeah. It's so interesting that we've talked about in a lot of podcasts that I've been trained in and practice cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a lot about change. And even with you, Mark, like with EMDR, it's about like changing and processing trauma and like how do we see it in a different way. And like especially as men, we're like, okay, what do I got? I gotta do something I gotta do.

Zack Carter: 02:30

Sure. And I was just finding that while cognitive behavioral therapy has been super helpful for my clients, a lot of clients were either just getting like halfway Sure. Or like three quarters of the way. And then we were kind of stalling out. I'm like, man, what's going on here?

Zack Carter: 02:47

And so there's another type of therapy. I started learning about and researching called acceptance and commitment therapy. And as I began to think about cognitive behavioral therapy and acceptance and commitment therapy, the serenity prayer came up to my mind. For those of you that don't know the serenity prayer, it's very commonly used in 12 step programs for addiction, people also just pray the serenity prayer even if they're not addicted. And the serenity prayer sounds like, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, the strength and courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Zack Carter: 03:28

And I think we, especially as men, so heavily focused on that second half that, alright, what do I got to change? I need the strength to change. But what about that first half? What about the part where we're supposed to accept? And so so you need both.

Zack Carter: 03:50

Right. Is what I'm is what I'm starting to come across. Both parts are important. Okay? So when oh, go ahead.

Zack Carter: 03:56

Were you gonna say Yeah.

Mark Odland: 03:57

No. That that's interesting, Zach. I think that's I'm intrigued to see where where you're gonna go with this because

Zack Carter: 04:04

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 04:04

I could I could see some of the guys listening. What are what are you talking about? Like, I'm just gonna sit on my butt and just wait for things to happen. That sounds ridiculous, Zach. But I I I know it's not that simple.

Zack Carter: 04:15

Yeah. Yes. I'm so glad you asked that. Yeah. So when we hear acceptance, a lot of times we hear give up.

Zack Carter: 04:23

And there's a difference between accepting and giving up. So for instance, if I say, you know what? This freaking gravity is out there. I refuse to play basketball until this gravity problem is solved. I'm not gonna play basketball.

Zack Carter: 04:40

It's like, or we accept that gravity is a thing and we learn to play basketball in spite of the gravity. Right? And so, so often we're trying to change the way that we feel. I have this anxiety. If I could just get rid of this anxiety.

Zack Carter: 04:57

Sure. I have these urges to act out in my addiction. If I could just get rid of these urges and sometimes it happens. Like anxiety is built into the brain to be there. You're going to feel anxiety.

Zack Carter: 05:11

So what do you do? You can either fight with it or you can accept it and say like, okay, but what do I do regardless of whether anxiety is there or just for relapses are there or the depression is there? What do I do in spite of it? Sure. Okay.

Zack Carter: 05:27

So any questions before we get to the first part of how we start to accept or any thoughts?

Mark Odland: 05:36

I mean, I was gonna share about a sarcastic serenity prayer that I sometimes use with clients, but I think I'm gonna I'm think I'm gonna hold off for now.

Zack Carter: 05:44

Don't hold on to sarcastics or energy prayer.

Mark Odland: 05:46

We'll we'll we'll revisit that at a

Zack Carter: 05:48

future meeting. We're teasing that. Okay. We're gonna tease that and not share. Okay.

Zack Carter: 05:52

Alright. Cool. So yeah. So step step one to acceptance. So if you're like, all right, dude, like, Okay, grab these a thing.

Zack Carter: 06:01

My anxiety is a thing. My urges are a thing. Okay. So like, how do you actually do it? Like, practically speaking, people when you do hear people say, we'll just accept.

Zack Carter: 06:13

Okay, but how? Like practically, what do we do? So here is the the layout. Here's the pattern for how you work through acceptance. Okay, so here's step one.

Zack Carter: 06:25

It's called cognitive diffusion, Cognitive diffusion. So in acceptance and commitment therapy, cognitive fusion is you are one with your thoughts. Okay? If I have the anxiety, I sit in it and I just spiral down, right? Sure.

Zack Carter: 06:40

Start to catastrophize. All the worst things are going to happen. You do all or nothing thinking. Nothing is good. Is bad.

Zack Carter: 06:46

Right? You just spiral, spiral, spiral. You're just you're just in it. Acceptance and commitment therapy says we need to like pull you apart from that process and separate you so that you can view that process from a third person perspective to call itself as context. Okay.

Zack Carter: 07:02

But you're in third person. That's how we'll talk about it today. Okay. Okay. So how do we go from here to separating and looking?

Zack Carter: 07:09

So you start with a pattern. I am fill in the blank. Okay, I am fill in the blank. You then move to I am thinking fill in the blank. I am thinking, fill in the blank.

Zack Carter: 07:25

And last, you walk through the the last process is I am noticing, I'm thinking, Fill in the blank. I am noticing. I'm thinking. Fill in the blank. Okay?

Zack Carter: 07:38

So Yeah. I am anxious. This is going to go terribly. I am going to lose my job. Okay?

Mark Odland: 07:48

K.

Zack Carter: 07:49

I am thinking this is gonna go terribly. I am thinking I'm anxious. I am thinking I'm going to lose my job. Okay? So now we're beginning the process of separation.

Zack Carter: 08:00

Sure. So now we go into this third person mode that we have the ability to do. It's kind of weird. The fact that we can like pull our thoughts and consciousness kind of out of ourselves and like view what the heck is going on. Okay.

Zack Carter: 08:14

So now we say, I'm noticing I'm thinking that I'm anxious. I'm noticing that I'm thinking that I'm going to lose my job. Right? So when you move to that third person perspective, when you separate yourself off, that creates space. And then when you have space, you're better able to make a choice.

Zack Carter: 08:38

Okay? When we're directly in it, it feels like no choice can be made. But when we pull ourselves out, now we can make a choice. Okay? So we stop asking, how do I feel?

Zack Carter: 08:50

How do I get rid of this? Instead, we ask, who do I wanna be right now? Okay. I'm anxious. Okay.

Zack Carter: 09:01

We accept that. Okay. So that's the acceptance piece. We're not judging the fact that we feel anxious. We accept that it's there.

Zack Carter: 09:08

It's like gravity. It's there. Like we're just acknowledging physics right now that I feel anxious that it's there. Okay. But now we have a choice.

Zack Carter: 09:20

Okay, so we have a choice in this moment. Who do we want to be here? Irregardless of the fact that there is anxiety in my body that I feel tension or I feel pressure or whatever the sensation is that you start to feel in your body. Who do I want

Mark Odland: 09:31

to be right now? Okay.

Zack Carter: 09:35

That can help to like finally get us moving forward. Okay. Question, thoughts, Mark?

Mark Odland: 09:46

I think this is a really cool approach to therapy the more you talk about it because I'm actually seeing overlap with the EMDR therapy that I do with most of my guys. In EMDR, there are two things that that really resonate. One is the metaphor that we're literally trained to tell our clients before we start reprocessing a memory is I want you to just imagine that you're sitting on a train or a bus and you're just looking on the window and watching the scenery go by. So there's that observer, that noticer stance.

Zack Carter: 10:20

Yep. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 10:23

While we're doing the reprocessing for EMDR, we'll actually verbalize sometimes the client, just notice. Just notice it. Mhmm. Right? Just watch it go by.

Mark Odland: 10:32

And then the last part that I think is super cool is a lot of times in EMDR, a traumatic memory. And I know what you're talking about isn't necessarily for trauma, but, with a frozen image, frozen video in your mind that's stored traumatically, usually, starts in first person. By the end of the EMDR healing process, when they pull up the memory, it's been changed. It's gotten a software update, and now it's third person. And so it seems like this therapy you're discussing is tapping into something that is compatible with the wiring and how how our brain naturally moves toward healing, which is super cool.

Mark Odland: 11:13

Yeah.

Zack Carter: 11:15

Yeah. I'm so excited. I'm so excited that you're saying this. So, like, it's interesting that you're saying the because the meta it's like a similar process, but the metaphors are different. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 11:25

So you're talking about a train or a car and maybe ACT maybe ACT would use those. But the the one that I've heard is is like a wave. So anxiety, it's like it's like the surface of the ocean. So it's flat initially. Then you start to get anxious.

Zack Carter: 11:40

That's the wave building. And so it builds and builds and builds. Sometimes the wave is bigger than other times. Sometimes it's smaller than other times. But it builds and builds and builds.

Zack Carter: 11:49

And what we know is that the wave will always crash down. The wave will always go away. So that's part of that acceptance. We understand that although it feels like that wave will always be there, it won't. It always goes away.

Zack Carter: 12:05

Now for some people who say, well, I've got chronic anxiety or I've got dysthymia, a form of depression that just kind of sticks around. Sure. But even with that, let's say you're a five out of ten in your depression and then you have days where you're a nine or a 10 out of 10 and you just can't do anything. Okay, what we know is that at a certain point that depression will crash back down. You'll be back to a five.

Zack Carter: 12:32

And this is once again with addictions. Works with urges, urges come and go. So we want to ride that wave. Right. Okay, so how do we do this?

Zack Carter: 12:41

So if you're feeling the anxiety, you ask yourself, where do I feel the anxiety in my body? Okay, do you feel it in your head? Do you feel it in your throat? Do you feel it in your chest? Do you feel it in your stomach?

Zack Carter: 12:57

Find where you feel it. Ask yourself, what does it feel like? Is it sharp? Is it tight? Is it heavy?

Zack Carter: 13:04

Figure out what if and then you can say this to yourself. I'm willing to sit with this. So we're not trying to fight this thing off. We're not trying to make it go away. I'm willing to sit with this.

Zack Carter: 13:19

So set a timer, thirty seconds, ninety seconds and just sit with it. Not trying to fight it, not trying to change it or manipulate it. Because what we know is a lot of times we can be anxious about being anxious or we can have shame about feeling anxious or we can be angry about feeling anxious. And what we know is that as we compound all these different emotions, it intensifies whatever feeling we're trying to avoid. Well, I shouldn't be anxious.

Zack Carter: 13:46

Well, I shouldn't have these urges. Well, I shouldn't be depressed. This is always going to be here. So that's hopelessness. Okay, so now we've got depression and hopelessness.

Zack Carter: 13:56

And so now we're making it worse. Or instead of being afraid of that emotion, we're like, oh, this is a sensation in my body. I'm no longer afraid of this sensation. So I'm willing to sit with it. Okay.

Zack Carter: 14:07

And so the question I said previously is, so we're separating ourselves from that thought.

Mark Odland: 14:12

We're able to like look at

Zack Carter: 14:13

it in third person mode. We're able to sit with it. So like, Okay, I'm just going to notice these sensations that are happening in my body and I'm just gonna sit with them without fighting them without being afraid of them. But how do you know who to be right now? So a really good step you can do.

Zack Carter: 14:32

We talked about this in a we did a video on internal motivation versus external motivation where we walked through a core values list to be like internally motivated to do a thing and not be motivated by you know, your family, your your church or whatever. Like, it's not and not that those are bad things, but just like how can we actually pursue pursue the things that we care about? And we so we talked about video these. So just kind of as a review, you can you can go online. You could type in core values list.

Zack Carter: 15:04

James Clear who wrote Atomic Habits has a really good list that I use a lot. So feel free to go check that out. Pick three. Okay? If you're like, oh, I can't.

Zack Carter: 15:13

Okay. Five. Okay. So start off, you just you just list out everything that means something to you. You just read through the list, list out everything that means something.

Zack Carter: 15:21

Then pick your top three or at most top five. You can have like a note card you can or a sticky note by where you work or where you spend a lot of time or where you feel most anxious. And so you have those at. So when you ask yourself, who do I wanna be in this moment? Let's say your three values were something like courage, integrity, connection.

Zack Carter: 15:43

Okay? Alright. I'm feeling this anxiety about going into this meeting right now with my boss. Sure. You could freeze up.

Zack Carter: 15:54

You cannot get prepped. You can, you know, call in sick. You could do all these things to or all right, who do I wanna be in this moment? Well, I wanna be a man of courage. Okay.

Zack Carter: 16:06

What does a man of courage do? Man of courage preps for the meeting and goes in. And he does it. Okay. So now you've got the thing that you're going to do.

Zack Carter: 16:16

And so in spite of the anxiety, which you've already separated off from, you're going to move forward and act as a man of courage. Right. K. Sure. I'm a throw it to you.

Mark Odland: 16:33

Yeah. I mean, I like it because it's, it almost sounds like you're saying we act on values and principles rather than how we feel. Yep. And to give yourself a fighting chance to act on your values and principles, first, you have to separate yourself from the feeling. Realize that the feeling is not the same as you.

Mark Odland: 16:55

It's something you're experiencing. And, yeah, I I think I think it's powerful. I mean, it strikes me too. You know, I think we have a lot of guys listening, right, who their faith is important to them too. And I think, man, I'd be excited to dig in, and I'm sure we can do this, off off camera.

Mark Odland: 17:14

But just to think about how, some of those values can weave their way into this process as well. Right? So when you talk about who do I wanna be, man, I think about that Ephesians six passage, put on the full armor of God. Right? And imagine wearing that helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, and the shield of faith, and the sword of the spirit.

Mark Odland: 17:34

And for every piece of armor, it kinda has, like, a value or a virtue attached to it combined with, like, something about our identity, about who we wanna be, who we really are. And so I I think I think I could see guys getting really excited about doing this kind of work with you, Zach, because Mhmm. It's very hopeful and empowering. I mean, just just from what I'm hearing about it.

Zack Carter: 18:00

Yeah. I think so, man. I I I've I think it it can it can really be helpful, especially if you try too many other things. It's like this this is these these skills and this approach can be very helpful. The last thing I'll mention and then and then we can we can keep moving is that one of the other the other aspects that ACT focuses on is being in the present moment.

Zack Carter: 18:26

Sure. And so off so often depression is past. Look at all the stuff I've done or look at all the things that have happened to me. Oftentimes anxiety is future focus. You know, if I don't find a way to control, this bad thing will happen in the future.

Zack Carter: 18:43

So what ACT does is it says it really doesn't matter what happened in the past. It really doesn't matter what happened in the future. We're gonna focus on the present and say, how do you wanna act right now in this moment? And so many of my clients that have had addictions is like, you know, their brain will say something like you failed so many times. You can't, you're never gonna get this right.

Zack Carter: 19:04

Right. That doesn't matter how many times you failed. Like who do you wanna be in this moment? Right. Or they say this is always gonna be with you forever.

Zack Carter: 19:13

You're never going to get rid of this. Okay. So that's future. Doesn't matter. Like, thanks.

Zack Carter: 19:18

Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you. That's another ACT technique is you can thank the thought and let it go away. Alright. Thanks.

Zack Carter: 19:24

Sure. Appreciate it. Let it go away. And then but who do I want to be in this moment? And so just wanted to kind of emphasize that before we move to the next part.

Zack Carter: 19:37

I'm a put you on the spot, just so people can kind of see live what this would look like. Alright. What makes you anxious? Is there something that's happened that has made you anxious or something that you're currently anxious about?

Mark Odland: 19:54

Yeah. It's interesting in light of the past, present, and future thing. Maybe you can help me tease this out, Zach. The thing the thing that came to mind, right, is, you know, I shared with you my my 15 year old son. He had a really bad basketball injury about a year ago.

Mark Odland: 20:07

Dislocated his knee, broke a couple bones, had to have reconstructive circuit. It was brutal. And it was really hard as a dad to watch your kid go through that. Yep. Now he's at his final surgery.

Mark Odland: 20:19

Mhmm. Literally had screws removed from his knees, which is crazy. Stitches are healing up. He's ready to get back into track. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 20:28

But the big thing is next next winter, he wants to play basketball again. He's a good athlete.

Zack Carter: 20:34

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 20:34

And the chances of him dislocating the other knee or the same knee, there's probably like five percent, maybe ten percent at the most. But as a dad, makes me anxious. I'm honest. That's scary. If I'm honest, right?

Mark Odland: 20:50

I mean, I try to with my therapy skills and my faith, I try to talk myself out of it. But if I'm honest, yeah, I do feel some anxiety about that.

Zack Carter: 20:59

Yeah. Thanks for sharing, man. Thanks for being being vulnerable about that. That's so awful that that happened. You know, I've got I've got a little one now, and I just I can't imagine her her getting an injury like that.

Zack Carter: 21:12

I just can't. I can't even contemplate right now. She's so young, so stuff can happen. But Yeah. Okay.

Zack Carter: 21:18

So what is the thought that comes up when you think about what will happen when he plays basketball again? Like, what's the thought that comes to your mind right before the anxiety kicks in?

Mark Odland: 21:29

Yeah. It's it's definitely an image of him, like, laying on the basketball. And it's inter interesting that, you know, you brought up that metaphor of gravity at the beginning because that ties right in with this. It's like Mhmm. He comes down the wrong way, someone falls into something happens and now he's just laying on the on the basketball court in pain and I'm like Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 21:48

Here we go again. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 21:51

Okay. So it's an image. Alright. So so right now you can say out loud. I have an image of my son lying on the basketball court injured.

Mark Odland: 22:04

I have an image of my son lying on the basketball court injured. Mhmm.

Zack Carter: 22:11

So now we're gonna try to start pull pulling you apart from that image. So Mhmm. I am thinking the thought of my son lying on the basketball court image basketball court injured.

Mark Odland: 22:25

I'm thinking the thought of my son lying on the basketball court injured.

Zack Carter: 22:32

Mhmm. Now I'm noticing the thought of my son lying on the basketball court injured.

Mark Odland: 22:44

Now I'm noticing the thought of my son lying on the basketball court injured. K.

Zack Carter: 22:50

Are you in that third person? You're kind of you separated yourself off from it?

Mark Odland: 22:57

I am. Yeah. I mean, but it's it's interesting because

Zack Carter: 23:00

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 23:01

The first person was kind of like me still looking at him from the outside, but I was, like, courtside. Right? Courtside seats right there.

Zack Carter: 23:07

Yeah. Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 23:09

And then when I had to think about my thoughts and thinking about it, I I started to try to imagine what my where where's my thought? Where like, how do I imagine that? And it was but it was, like, abstract, but it was removed from the court. And then it was like I took a step back even further when I tried to observe that thought. Which was already yeah.

Mark Odland: 23:33

So that was interesting to go through that.

Zack Carter: 23:35

So does the intensity of the anxiety go down?

Mark Odland: 23:39

Yeah. Yeah. For sure, because I'm not focused on this like worst case scenario the same way. And and at least right now it's like, oh yeah, that's all it is right now. It's just a thought.

Mark Odland: 23:51

It didn't actually happen. It's a thought. Right.

Zack Carter: 23:54

Yeah. So just to be clear, you feeling better or if if anyone tries in the audience, you feeling better in the moment is actually not the goal. Yeah. Like sometimes it does happen. So it did happen in this instance.

Zack Carter: 24:06

It would have been okay if you were like, no, actually I'm still pretty I don't want to look at that. Okay. Fair enough. So now ask yourself, who do you wanna be in this moment with a son who could potentially be get injured in the future playing basketball?

Mark Odland: 24:29

Yeah. That's a really good question.

Zack Carter: 24:33

Now the anxiety is coming back. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. So so actually, I'm glad you said that. So Yeah.

Zack Carter: 24:39

You saying that. So is is noticing the anxiety? Ah, there it is. There's the anxiety again. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 24:45

And then you're pulling yourself out of it again. So like you're feeling it and then you're like, oh, I'm noticing that anxiety. Yeah. And so what's really cool about Mark saying that everybody is that like, so we diffuse them away. They're like, who do you want to be?

Zack Carter: 24:58

Anxiety comes back. It's like we can rinse and repeat. Okay. I'm noticing the anxiety is coming in as I try to determine who I want to be in this moment. And so we're not fighting with the anxiety.

Zack Carter: 25:10

We're just like, okay, there it is again. It's a cloud passing in the sky. We can't fight with the cloud. It's just there. Yeah.

Zack Carter: 25:18

It's just there. All right, cool. So who do you want to be in this moment knowing that that's a thing that could happen?

Mark Odland: 25:27

Yeah. I mean, I think the truth is I wanna I want to live as someone who lives by faith.

Zack Carter: 25:37

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 25:37

And it can accept that life life life can be hard and has its risks. But Mhmm. I can't, like, wrap them in bubble wrap and try to shelter them from all danger because that's gonna mess them up. So Yeah. And I think that's where the anxiety was creeping in is just act ironically, to accept or realizing that, oh, man.

Mark Odland: 26:01

I have to accept that. Yeah. I have to I I have to by me saying I wanna live by faith means I have to I'm accepting that I'm going to embrace uncertainty because faith isn't the same as certainty.

Zack Carter: 26:14

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's perfect. Okay. So the last step that we can do in ACT is committed action.

Zack Carter: 26:21

Okay. So you said, okay. I I wanna be a man of faith that I wanna trust. And so what is the thing you can do right in this moment to move that quality forward, to move that faith forward?

Mark Odland: 26:39

Well, I can I can pray?

Zack Carter: 26:41

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 26:41

I can meditate on scriptures that that give me strength and comfort. Mhmm. Mhmm. Not just believing that God will protect our family, but knowing that it's gonna be okay even if it happens again.

Zack Carter: 26:55

Mhmm.

Mark Odland: 26:56

And then I can step it up as a dad and just, like, have good talks with my son, make sure he's doing his, like, strength and conditioning stuff, controlling Serenity Prayer. It's good. Back to what I can control. I

Zack Carter: 27:13

love it, All right. You're such a good sport. Thanks for going through that. Bad to be uncomfortable. No, this is good, Zach.

Zack Carter: 27:21

That was the I

Mark Odland: 27:22

I appreciate you walking me through that. I actually do, I feel like there's some more insight and perspective. And, yeah, I'm gonna chew on that for a while. I I appreciate that.

Zack Carter: 27:35

Perfect. Cool. Thanks for doing that, man. So as just kind of a summary for everybody listening and and we'll start to wrap here just to kind of review we talked about. Okay?

Zack Carter: 27:44

So you have the thought or the emotion. We don't wanna be in it. We wanna, like, pull ourselves apart from it and look at it as if we're in third person. So that's cognitive diffusion. We to separate ourselves off.

Zack Carter: 27:57

You do that by I am, I am thinking, I am noticing, I'm thinking. We then can say in this moment, I have a choice. Who do I wanna be in this moment? If you don't know, you can do that core values list. That'll tell you who you wanna be in the moment so that you're not driven by emotions and thoughts that may or may not be accurate or true, that you're being driven by your values.

Zack Carter: 28:23

And then you commit to an action. So like Mark was saying, what I do have control over is that I can pray or that I can meditate or that I can talk to my son and say like, Hey, are we doing your strength and conditioning? How can we get you out there and get you prepped for the basketball season? Because it sounds like with Mark, he doesn't wanna do the bubble wrap thing and say like, okay, we're just gonna keep you safe. And it's like, in many ways, that's some of the worst things that we could do to our kids in many instances.

Zack Carter: 28:53

And so it's like, alright. Well, then I've gotta, like, live through faith. How do I do that? Here's what I can actually control back to the serenity. So Great.

Zack Carter: 29:00

That's what I got, Mark. Any last thoughts or comments or questions?

Mark Odland: 29:03

How much do I owe you?

Zack Carter: 29:05

I'll send you the bill. This is good. This is good. I don't know if

Mark Odland: 29:11

I can afford your rate, Zach, but, actually, you know what? It's worth it. I will. I will. You

Zack Carter: 29:18

Perfect. I'll send you the bell. It's a good No matter what they they I don't know if, like, the dual relationship thing is gonna come into play.

Mark Odland: 29:27

Yeah. No. This is this is good stuff. Well, Zack, thank you. Thank you for sharing that with with me, with our audience.

Mark Odland: 29:33

Mhmm. You know, if you're still listening, my guess is you're enjoying our content. It's crazy how many people actually listen to us every week but don't actually subscribe. So if you're somebody who likes our content, please subscribe, hit the bell, get the notifications. It helps the algorithm, helps us get the word out to more guys who who are looking for these practical tools.

Mark Odland: 29:52

Some of you know, in addition to this great conversation we're having about faith, psychology, masculinity, we also do long form interviews. We interview really interesting people who have great stories to tell and wisdom to share. So check out our channel. Throw some comments in in the, below, and we'd love to respond to them. Keep the conversation going.

Mark Odland: 30:13

And as always, if you feel like, you might wanna make that investment and but you're not sure, know, you can sign up for a clarity call with me or Zach. We're happy to do that, see if it's a good fit. And and if you're ready to do the work, man, we would be honored to do that with you. So, all that being said, god bless, and we'll talk to you later. Bye.

Zack Carter: 30:34

Bye, everybody.