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The Harvester Podcast is brought to you by the Florida School of Preaching. Listen weekly to take a dive into biblical topics and thoughtful studies on things that matter to our eternal souls.
Brian Kenyon (00:02)
Jesus gave his life a ransom yonder on Calvary. On Mount Calvary, cruel Calvary. Pave the way by blood that we might win a bright shining crown. Praise his lost thing, holy salvation has been brought down. glory, praise the Lord. Welcome to the Harvester Podcast. We are happy that you have joined us this day on our sixth season as we continue our
Study Minoring in the Majors, the Major Prophets, that is. I am Brian Kenyon, one of your hosts, and with me is and we're glad Stephen's with us this time. And we're gonna pick up ⁓ with the new heavens and new earth, and of course in our season six, Minoring in the Majors, we're looking at a few lessons, a handful of lessons from Isaiah, a handful of lessons from Jeremiah, etcetera.
Steven Ford (00:40)
Stephen Ford.
Brian Kenyon (00:57)
And we have looked at the New Heavens and the New Earth in episodes four and five coming from the book of Isaiah, which is where they originally or they first appear, those terms. But we are going to continue, even though this is not technically Isaiah, but it's an offshoot of this New Heavens and New Earth. And in this episode, we will look at the two times that they occur in the New Testament. And as we discussed in the Old Testament, those two terms are a reference to the Messianic kingdom.
That will come with Jesus. And we've also pointed out in that that carries over to here is that to really understand new heavens and new earth, we need to understand the old heavens and old earth. And in episode four, we laid that out that in Genesis 1 1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That that that term heavens and earth is not just referring to the elements, you know, heaven where the birds fly, heaven where the planets orbit.
and the earth, but it's really an idiom that means everything from A to Z. And we looked at passages about creation that use those terms and show that that's true, especially even within the book of Isaiah. And even outside of creation contexts, those two words heaven and earth refer to everything created, not just those particular elements. And so that brings us to the New Testament study.
And as I mentioned, the term new heaven and new earth does appear in 2 Peter 3, verse 13. But I really want to go back and look at the context ⁓ of this. And of course in 2 Peter chapter 3 it begins with scoffers, you know, saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. And then Peter basically says, No, you're wrong about that. Remember the flood. And he talks about the flood, but he did talk about how that same
⁓ were you preserved by water, for example in verse five, for this they willfully forget or are ignorant that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of water and in water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water, but the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perishion of ungodly men.
And so they are willfully ignorant because things do not continue as they were from the beginning. But notice again you have the heavens and earth mentioned, you know, where he says, But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved. Okay? And again, he's talking about this. Well, in this case it's the earth that's going be destroyed with with water. You know, the water doesn't destroy the stars or anything like that. But you see, heavens and earth is used here. And then of course he goes into eight and nine.
about, you know, a day with the Lord is like a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. And he's not meaning that to be literal, but he's just saying that God is not bound by time. That because he hasn't come yet doesn't mean he's forgotten. Now with you and I, you know, the longer we put off something, as the wife would remind us, the more likely we're just gonna forget and not do it. Right. But not so with God. Not so with God, because time is nothing to him.
Steven Ford (04:15)
Mm. Yeah, he's he's not bound by the same ⁓ rules of nature that you and I are bound by.
Brian Kenyon (04:21)
Right. And then in the immediate context we begin here in verse ten but the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with great noise, the elements will melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are therein will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness? Looking for and hastening to the coming of the day of God.
Because of which the heavens will be dissolved being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless, we, according to his promise, look for new heaven, new heavens and a new earth in which dwells righteousness. And then he goes on verses fourteen and following, and really in this context he's asking a main question.
And that question comes out here in verse eleven, therefore since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be? And then in verse fourteen and following he answers that question, but in the midst of that question he does mention these things about earth being destroyed and the heavens being destroyed.
Steven Ford (05:35)
It reminds me kind of the the launching point from this Isaiah sixty five and sixty-six, where is it follows a very similar pattern. ⁓ there is this recognition of the just and the unjust. There is also a mention of like a timelessness, like how he has a thousand years a day there. He's talking about that the infant will be a hundred and if you know, and so on. So you've got this kind of ⁓ mention of time that it'll be kind of relative, you might say. And then you've got this ⁓
Okay, now a pronouncement of here's what the righteous and the unrighteous will both have, ⁓ looking forward to. And so it follows a very similar pattern. And the the language that Peter borrows from is directly from there and it's trying to it just showing it doesn't seem as though Peter's saying, Hey, I want to describe an actual literal right you know, location and it's you know, dimensions and all this kind of a thing more than he's saying. I'm trying to get us to think about like you just mentioned, what's the core of what he's saying? Listen.
Since things are gonna be different, you need to be asking yourself what kind of person you are. And that's what he's saying, you know, what kind of person aren't you? since the earth is gonna be destroyed, since these things are gonna be different, since all this stuff is gonna be God will judge it all, how then should you respond looking back at that knowledge that you have of God?
Brian Kenyon (06:50)
Yeah, and that's a very good point. And you see the and it's almost like a type anti type, maybe fulfillment with Isaiah and these passages in the New Testament, because a as Stephen mentioned, of course, that's that's true. It's like and we looked at this the contrast between the rebellious and the righteous all throughout Isaiah, both chapters sixty five and sixty six. And we see that same contrast here with the scoffers ⁓ and all of that stuff. But but but in that contrast, you know, there is gonna be
you know, something future that's gonna settle everything. And of course, and as we mentioned, I didn't mention the introduction here, but that term heaven and earth, even though in the old testament in Isaiah it's referring to Messianic kingdom, and here as we're gonna see even more, it's talking about heaven, there's still that same arching meaning, you know, spiritual dwelling place for God's people. Right. And of course in Isaiah, Messianic kingdom here, it's you know, heaven after judgment, and s and he'll develop this as we go along, but those are some very good observations.
Steven Ford (07:50)
It and it's always been there that God has always promised a place for his people, whether you think it's literal or figurative. ⁓ even I'm thinking about ⁓ when Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, the meek shall inherit the earth. Well the Jews of course would have understood that and they would have been thinking this kind of goes back to the Abrahamic promises and covenants and things of that nature. ⁓ but for ⁓ Christians and the disciples who were hanging at it that day, they it it would have had a ⁓ it would have been rooted in that promise.
⁓ but there's the meaning ultimately is God has something for his people that are faithful to him. He has a place for his people.
Brian Kenyon (08:25)
Right. Mm-hmm. In contrast to the people who are rebel against him, exactly they have their place as well.
Steven Ford (08:31)
⁓ Matthew twenty five. You have the same sort of imagery that nobody will be without a place. Nobody will be displaced completely. Everybody has a category into which they will fall and thus a place where they'll go.
Brian Kenyon (08:47)
Yep, very good. All right, so Peter here uses three stages, at least the way I've outlined it in my head, three stages to describe the end of the present heavens and earth before he promises the new heavens and new earth. And the first stage of that is the heavens will pass away. Second Peter 3:10, we'll call it first part 10A. And this term that is passing away is from a Greek word that means to pass away, to disappear, and it occurs.
twenty five times, and some of those times are especially relevant to this study. For example, Matthew five, eighteen, for assuredly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, and there's a word pass away, one jot or one tittle, will by no means pass from the law until all is fulfilled. And then in Matthew twenty-four, thirty-four, assuredly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my word by no means will pass away. Again, Matthew 24, 34 through 35, and of course there's parallels of that in Mark and Luke as well that use that same pass away in that context. And there he's talking about, you know, the destruction of Jerusalem, you know, is certain because God's word will not pass away. And then Luke 16, 17, and it's easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one.
Tidle of the law to fail. And there again pass away. Second Corinthians 5.17, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation or creature. Old things have passed away. Behold, all things are become new. And he tells us those all things new are in verse 18, all things are of God. And then finally in James 1.10, but the rich in his humiliation, because as the flower of the field, he will pass away.
And so again, that word pass away, you know, does carry with it that idea of you know being gone, pass away to disappear. And so in these passages, the objects said to be passing away would be completely gone and stripped, or I should say completely gone. They won't be stripped, they won't be refurbished, but just completely gone. Mm-hmm. And then the passing away of the heavens will be accompanied by a great noise.
⁓ or as the ESV translates that, a great roar, ⁓ which is translated from a word, and again that word Roy Zedon, Roizedon, something like that. But ⁓ that's now that the scholars call it Otomonopeic, which means it it sound, you know, it's a word that's spelled out like it sounds like crumble, bang, you know, zap. Yeah. I think of the old Batman.
Steven Ford (11:41)
Yeah, yeah, that's just what I thought about as said that's
Brian Kenyon (11:44)
So but anyway, but but but the word is you know it refers to a hissing or a crackling sound. It expresses ⁓ from one ⁓ lexicon a whizzing sound produced by rapid motion through the air of shrill rushing sounds. And he goes on to say the hissing of a snake, the whirl of a bird's wings, the hurling of an arrow, and then it's also used for the rushing.
movement itself for the accompanying crash or roar. And here the noise describes the roaring and crackling sounds of the sky as it burns. This fits the context and this is by I believe ⁓ Bauer. Let me look I got a reference on that.
Steven Ford (12:31)
Well you're looking there, I'll just I wanna point this out that you just said ⁓ the International English Bible, the IEB, mm, it ⁓ phrases it where'd I just read it? it says The day of the Lord will come suddenly like a robber, the heavens will pass away with a whizzing noise. Yeah, there you go. That's how they translate that yeah.
Brian Kenyon (12:50)
And if ⁓ you know, at my house we always have a bonfire at the last weekend before school starts bucket back up after Christmas, and sometimes that thing will roar loud and you'll hear that cracking and so I know exactly what that sound is, okay? But that first stage again in Second Peter is the heavens will pass away. And then the second stage in my head as I outline this is the elements will melt with a fervent heat. Second Peter three verse ten.
Now the term elements, and there again the ESV translates that heavenly bodies, and that comes from a word that basically refers to the elements of which something is made, which would include the basic principles behind certain philosophies. ⁓ in Galatians 4, verse 3, Paul writes, even so we, when we were children,
We're in bondage under the elements of the world, and that's that same expression, the elements of the world. In ⁓ verse nine he referred to as the weak and beggarly elements. And we also find in Colossians two verse eight and then verse twenty those same type of elements you need someone to teach you again in the Hebrews, Hebrews five fifteen, you need someone to teach you again the first principles.
of the oracles of God. And that word principles there is the same word elements over here in Second Peter. And so in First Peter 3, 10 and 12, the term has been taken at least in the following four ways. Number one, the rudiments of knowledge, based upon the origin of the Greek word, which means things arranged in a row, like letters and alphabet. A second way that that thing is looked at is the physical elements of earth, air, fire, and water.
which was common meaning in the Greek philosophical circles of the first century. And then a third way was the angelic and spiritual beings, and then number four, the heavenly bodies, such as the sun, moon, stars, and planets. And of course I would say all those things would be included in this expression where the elements will melt with fervent heat. Mm. You know, not just well, anyway, given this the context of Second Peter three, the elements must refer to the whole created order. The whole created order
That's not designed to be eternal. for example, you know, human the human soul is created, but it's created to be eternal. You know, it will never cease once created. And angels and maybe some other things we could put in that category, but everything that's part of this temporal world, restricted anyway, to this temporal world that will not go on for eternity, ⁓ will be gone, will be destroyed.
And then you have that backed up with ⁓ the other term will melt, will melt with fervent heat. And in the ASV, that's dissolved and the new American standard destroyed. And that's in 2 Peter 3, 10b again, but this is from a fairly common word, luo, and every every elementary Greek student and knows that word, because that's the verb that's used to break down all the declensions and all that stuff. But
You Luo, it's a word that means to loose or destroy, but in the passive voice, as 2 Peter 3 uses it, it means to fall apart, to break up, or to dissolve. And so the word is here, and in 2 Peter 3.12, coupled with fervent heat. And this word fervent heat comes from a Greek medical term for body temperature, particularly in connection with the high fever. Thus the whole expression can be rendered literally as destroyed in the heat.
Yeah. ⁓ But you know
Steven Ford (16:54)
Yeah. Matter doesn't disappear changes from
Brian Kenyon (16:59)
Going back to the old bonfire analogy, you know, that next morning when I come out, if it doesn't rain, I leave those cold I mean, there's I mean you can see the white silt that's left, and then that eventually goes away too. But you know, in in this situation, if God brought this world into existence from nothing, he can sure enough take it out to nothing.
Steven Ford (17:22)
That's one of the things that you used mentioned physical science and I can remember some of those same principles. But the laws that God created don't govern God. That's right. And so when we say, you know, somebody said, Well, it burned up, it doesn't it doesn't ⁓ destroy it just changes form. Well, with a tree you might have it. You've got some ash, you got some carbon dioxide, smoke and all that kind of stuff. But if God made everything from nothing, nothing being absolute nothing, he can make everything back into nothing. That's right. Yeah. So we don't have to worry about it. No.
Fitting finely into the guidelines with science.
Brian Kenyon (17:54)
Because this earth was not created by scientific method.
Steven Ford (17:58)
Exactly.
Brian Kenyon (18:00)
Yeah, it's sustained by natural law, you know, and God God working his way. Hebrews eleven verse three. ⁓ and some other passages too. But yeah, correct. I mean it's not God God's burning up the earth is not subject to natural law after that. I mean
Steven Ford (18:15)
And that you just remind me when you s at Hebrews eleven, I was thinking of Hebrews one, where he upholds all things by the word and so he could even say, you know, It's done and by the word of his power it will be undone, destroyed, and turned to nothing.
Brian Kenyon (18:21)
This one.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so we had that first stage, as I I have it anyway, will pass away and then will melt with a fervent heat. And then thirdly, the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Now the earth is mentioned throughout the chapter. We have it in Second Peter three five, verse seven, verse ten, verse thirteen. And the works that are in the earth has reference, as one has said, to all of you know not not just including the things that, you know.
man builds and all that stuff, but all of man's accomplishments even upon the earth, they're gone. ⁓ now there is, and a lot of people make a big big deal about it this, there is a textual what's called a textual variant, in the ancient manuscripts at the end of Second Peter three ten. And a textual variant is where, you know, the manuscripts differ in a reading, like in in a verse or two or whatever, maybe a different word, a different order.
maybe a leave a verse part of a verse out, include a verse or whatever. And so these textual variants do exist and there's no denying rationally denying them. Now why they exist, that's where a lot of good discussion can come. But ⁓ in some translations, like I believe the ESV maybe, ⁓ will be burned up is translated will be exposed. And there's a different word that
kind very similar looking anyway when you look at it, ⁓ that that is there. All right. And so, you know, it means to be exposed or to lay bare. And of course I would submit that even if the the latter the variant that the ESV translates from, even if that were what Peter actually wrote, it doesn't change the meaning of the overall context. I mean you could take any one of these words by themselves and you get the same thing. This this world is going to be gone.
Yeah. But when he stacks those words up like that, like pass away, yeah, dissolve, ⁓ melt and all that.
Steven Ford (20:36)
Yeah, the ⁓ this IEB again in verse ten it says the earth and every force in it will be gone. So he's using that terminology instead of but the idea is still the same.
Brian Kenyon (20:46)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And as a matter of fact, you know, we'll be exposed would have reference to the fact that the earth will not offer any hiding place, you know, because it vanishes for the ungodly to escape. And in Hebrews four thirteen, you know, after he says the word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, verse thirteen, there's no creature hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and open or exposed, if you will.
To the eyes of him to whom we must give an account. And also in Revelation 20, verse 11, John writes, And I saw a great white throne in him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heavens fled away, and there was found no place for them. And back in chapter six, ⁓ after that ⁓ one seal that he opens, is it chapter six? Yes, chapter six, the seventh seal.
He opens. No, I guess it's the sixth steel seal he opens. There's that judgment coming down and they're looking for the rocks and the the mountains to cover them and hide them. And no. But there was no place to run, no place to hide. Why? Because everything is laid open. I mean, once God comes to judge, there's no no hiding. And so even if that textual variant is correct, the correct reading, it still doesn't change the meaning of the passage.
Steven Ford (21:54)
Yeah.
Brian Kenyon (22:11)
'Cause again he he stacks these words up so there's no doubt about it, this earth is gonna be gone.
Steven Ford (22:16)
Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, w what there's one thing about what the Bible says and what it is saying. I don't want to d make, you know, too much of a deal out there, but how do we understand this thing? The idea of it is what we see now will no longer be. You know, the the ⁓ the physical scientific method of that taking place is not the argument. The argument is it's going to be gone. So as Peter says, how should you respond to it? And that that's the major point of it. Sometimes we can make ⁓ the
the molehill into the mountain and the mountain kinda gets hidden behind what we've made out of the molehill.
Brian Kenyon (22:52)
Right. Yeah, and that and that's true. And we can't understand how God is gonna do the thing. I mean, we may not understand that. I don't yeah I don't know how he created the world just by speaking it. From nothing it came into being. Yeah. ⁓ I don't know I mean I know it says the Holy Ghost conceived what was in Mary, but I don't know how in the world that happened. Or how he did that, you know. ⁓ I know that the word of God is the inspired word of God, but how he inspired them, I know he dictated some of it, you know, and to Moses and stuff, but some of it
Most of it is he allowed those writers to use their background, to use their writing style. Yeah. Everything is exactly as God wanted. Every jot, every tittle at at the end is exactly how God wanted it. So I don't know how he did the process. I just know what the what the Bible says about the product. Mm-hmm. And so I don't know how he's gonna take the world back into nothing, but I don't have to know how. It's revealed that he will
Steven Ford (23:43)
Yeah, and that's that that's the thing of the faith that we have. It it's not about understanding how God will do everything, when God will do everything. It's just trusting God. Period. That's what it is. And ⁓ you just mentioned about not understanding some things. recently was in a meeting and we were talking about how ⁓ God will wipe away tears. Well, how will how will we not have tears if we
You the question is often asked if we know that, you know, mom or dad or you know, son or daughter is not in heaven, why won't we have tears? How will God do that? If I'm not married to my spouse, how will I it's like I don't know. But all I know is that we will be in a completely enraptured state, being at the throne of God where there will be no tears. Now, how, when, where, why, you that kind of stuff, man, not my business. As we would say, it's above my pay grade. That's right. but I'm try I trust that God'll make it happen. yeah.
Brian Kenyon (24:34)
Absolutely. And of course a part a lot of that has to do with the new body that we'll have, but yeah. Yeah, but even that, I mean, how do you know we don't know the details.
Steven Ford (24:41)
Don't know y it'll be appropriate for eternity. First Catholic fifteen.
Brian Kenyon (24:44)
And this is a good point. We don't know the details. And so my judgment on the details is just as good as your judgment on the details. Because my judgment may differ on the details. Doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong. Right. Or vice versa. Right. And it doesn't mean it's a matter of fellowship. And so but the earth will be destroyed, gone, nothing. and then then as we go back to Second Peter three, he brings up new heavens and new earth. And so
Despite the created order, Peter writes, We according to his promise look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, second Peter three thirteen. Now in the Greek text, New Heavens and New Earth, ⁓ that phrase is first in the sentence, which usually gives it emphasis. And then next to the original in the original order is according to his promises, we look for, and then almost as an afterthought,
As one commentator stated, it could hardly be ⁓ otherwise if God had fulfilled his promises, then you have the the home of the righteous or where righteousness dwells. Now the correct interpretation of this verse depends on the correct interpretation of the previous verses, especially in Second Peter 3 10. Now almost every single in fact I j every denominational source that I consulted on this, which of course wasn't exhaustive.
But they'll take the term new heavens and new earth to refer to a physical dwelling. However, the overall context as well as the details within the verse teaches otherwise. And then, especially when you go back and bring in Isaiah, what he had to say about it, even though different context, I mean, there's just no way that this is a physical dwelling place. It's new.
Steven Ford (26:18)
Yeah.
Yeah, especially when you look at ⁓ what he's saying in in verses, you know, nine and following, and all that's gonna be gone. There will be nothing ⁓ left of that which it was. It's not he's not saying that like a a a house, if you're gonna say, Hey man, let let's pull all the wood down, save the wood over to the side, and then we're gonna rebuild a new house out of that wood. He said it will be gone. And so now what's gonna be coming is gonna be something that's
New, that wasn't there, that didn't exist ⁓ prior to
Brian Kenyon (27:13)
Yeah. Exactly right. And the the term promise, that word promise, you know, we according to his promise in Second Peter three thirteen, that's not from the usual word promise. ⁓ and this this promise here may be reminiscent of Isaiah sixty five seventeen or sixty six twenty two. However, for consideration, the only other verse where this particular word for promise is found is
is in Peter's words about Christians being given quote exceedingly and great and precious promises that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature in second Peter one verse three and four. Thus according to the promise in three hundred thirteen focuses the new heavens and the new earth as a specific fulfillment of the general promise made to Christians to be partakers of divine nature.
And so and that and that that's another term that I don't know exactly everything that entails. I know what it includes.
Steven Ford (28:17)
Fascinating. It's fascinating, yeah.
Brian Kenyon (28:19)
Yes, it includes, you know, us being in Christ and then and and when you think about Yeah, well, I mean, there's just so much involved in that term, that makes me want to study that term, just that term right there. but you know, I think I I would say that humans are the only part of God's creation that have the ability for his spirit to indwell. That's another lesson. We won't get into all that now, but we are made in such a way where
You know, God's spirit can indwell us in non miraculous ways and things like that. But that's that's another lesson of course. ⁓
Steven Ford (28:56)
The unique nature of humanity is so mind boggling that you like you just mentioned, okay, yeah, he made us, he made us from dust, he put a spirit in us, it makes us alive, it animates his body, his spirit is within us. ⁓ we are the only beings that I can read from scripture, ⁓ that are inheritors of his grace and forgiveness in of all the things. I mean, every
Being that exists. We, you know, we love the what are those things in Ezekiel? You know, what are they? You know, what are the angels here? And you know, what are those things in Isaiah 6? And of all the fascination that we have, none of those beings, as great as they may be, powerful as they may be, none of them get the expression of God's love that we receive in terms of being able to be renewed and forgiven and restored. It seems that when they
their sin causes them, if they do sin, causes them to be expelled immediately and that's it, reserved in chains of darkness. Yeah. Whereas you and I get to be forgiven and and and his love for us is unique in that way. It's it's just so awesome to see. And then then these bodies that we have are s that's are fit for this existence will somehow now be fit for another existence and we'll somehow maybe be able to even recognize one another and how that be well, what age will we look like would you look like the th you know, the thirteen year old you or
We just have a name to you know, how's that gonna work? But it it's it's a great, you know, a study.
Brian Kenyon (30:19)
Yeah. We don't know how it's gonna work. I don't but we know it's gonna be
Steven Ford (30:22)
It's gonna be there. It's gonna work out. That's how I know it's gonna work it's gonna work out. Yeah.
Brian Kenyon (30:26)
And that's when you mention I forgot the exact word you just used there about human nature, the you know, the just the complexity of human nature and and all that. Then you combine that with the equally and more and if not even more so, well in fact I know more so, nature of God and both of those natures come into one with Jesus. And first John three two, we don't know what we're gonna appear, but we know when we see him
Steven Ford (30:48)
Man, how did that happen?
Brian Kenyon (30:55)
We're gonna be like him.
Steven Ford (30:56)
I isn't that one of the most mind boggling verses like wait, wait, say that again, John. You almost wanna like you know, elaborate on that, John, he just he just kinda throws it out there. Right. You could wish that there were more
Brian Kenyon (31:06)
Or and we couldn't understand it now. No. No matter what language he used, probably. That's why no more said about it. Yeah. But we'll understand it better. But anyway, all right, so but but anyway, so the overall context here, you know, talks about that where righteousness dwells. And of course the a as we mentioned about the promise, you know, the the according to the promises focuses on the new heavens and new new earth.
Steven Ford (31:14)
Bam bam bam. Amen, brother.
Brian Kenyon (31:35)
As a specific fulfillment. Now, the newness of these heavens and earth focuses a totally different realm than the old heavens and earth. The word new, I mean it's just a complete natured, just a totally different thing. Now the word new here is from the word kinos, and that word basically means new or new quality.
⁓ in second Corinthians five, seventeen, we mentioned this passage earlier as it comes to, you know, passing away, but having abolished in his flesh the enmity, that is the law, which that's not the right one there, but
Steven Ford (32:16)
No, it says therefore if any man be in Christ, he's a new creature, old things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. And that that now that is a a great passage to cite because it's not saying that there is something that, you know, just kind of gets shuffled reshuffled a little bit. We are complete the old person is dead. That's that's gone. And so there's a completely new and I'm thinking also ⁓ being Romans twelve about being transformed, there's this there's this new, completely different
thing that's gonna be emerging.
Brian Kenyon (32:48)
Yeah. And ⁓ yeah, so that new creation, and it even calls it a creation, because it's a spiritual, you know, it's a s it's we're we're washed of our sins, and so it's just a totally different. You know, the new creation is different than the old. And then also in Ephesians two, and that's a passage I c got confused with just a minute ago, but Ephesians two fifteen, having abolished in this flesh the enmity that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances
as to create in himself one new man from the two, thus making peace. And the two that he's talking about in that context is Jew and Gentile, that he's brought them together into one new person. And so it's a whole new relationship. And then in Revelation 21, verses one and two, and we'll see this more so in our next section here about New Jerusalem, but or the new heavens and earth in Revelation one, but
Or twenty one, but notice here Revelation twenty one, one and two, now I saw a new heaven and new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the new or the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepares the bride adorned for her husband. And so again these newnesses and and no one would, you know, say, maybe getting a little bit ahead of herself, but no one would say that new Jerusalem is just a refurbished thing.
It's a totally different totally just a totally different animal, we might say, but it's not an animal, of course, but just a totally different thing. ⁓ nothing like the new or the old. Okay. and and that's of course Revelation twenty one, verses one and two. And so this word new is further defined as what is new and distinctive, what is new in nature, different from the usual, impressive, better than the old, superior in value or attractiveness.
And then one commentator says the epitome of the holy different and miraculous, the holy there H or W-H-O-L-L-Y, the holy different and miraculous, and by which is a supernatural dwelling place, if you will, going back to ⁓ and this is from the theological dictionary of the New Testament, but just a totally different, different situation.
Steven Ford (35:10)
The the way that word is used, I'm glad you brought out that new word, ⁓ the way that word is used in the New Testament, ⁓ New Testament, and that it's even used in that exact phrasing, it it definitely doesn't indicate kind of a rew reworking and there's a couple of passages I'm thinking of is like Hebrews eight eight, where God is saying, I'm gonna make a new covenant with the house of Israel. Well he's not saying, Well, you know what? ⁓ I'm gonna just kinda reshuffle the Ten Commandments, make one four and four seven and that sort of a thing. I'm I'm just gonna it
what we have is is totally new. And then ⁓ thinking again, passages, especially in the book of Ephesians, where in chapter two, verse fifteen, chapter four, ⁓ that we put on a new man. So this new person that raises up in Christ to walk in newness of life. He has a new mind. He has a new heart. He has a new focus. He has a new king. There's all these things are new and it's not a reworking of that old man. That old man is completely gone, passed away, dead and gone. And so
When you think of the way that that word is used in the New Testament, without, you know, reading into the text, you say, Well, what does the Bible say? How's it use the word? It always is indicating something new, unique, fresh, different from that which was.
Brian Kenyon (36:18)
Yeah. And so again this word new Kinos, unlike the the ⁓ the other Greek word that's commonly translated new, this word is quote retrospective and points to that which is fresh in contrast to that which is worn out. And so, you know, the new heavens and the new earth refers to a whole new order of habitation for God's people. And of course here he says in which righteousness dwells, he does give that caveat to it at the in the end of that verse.
But this eternal dwelling is far beyond comprehension, but you know, I would say maybe anthropomorphically compared to something with which humans can identify. I mean, we can identify with heavens and earth here, and we have a sunshiny sky out here, which we haven't had in a while, but but it's we can identify with that, but that's not that this is a new this is not this. But again the the connection is a dwelling place. You know, God has given us this dwelling place temporarily.
Steven Ford (37:16)
That's the thing.
Brian Kenyon (37:18)
But this this one, New Heavens, is fit for eternity.
Steven Ford (37:22)
And with some of the language, you know, I think is is responsible for us to say, Well w in what ways were those words used? It's is describing a dwelling place. You know, a place where you live. Like you may say, Hey, ⁓ I I got an apartment. I might have a new apartment. Well it may not be it may be a condo or, you what have you, whatever the case, you know, it's it's accommodative language describing something. There's gonna be a a new place for us to dwell. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I think it's just
getting the idea. What is what is God trying to convey from here? And I think the idea again, like you talked about going all the way back to Isaiah, is that when God looks at humanity, he sees the righteous, he sees the unrighteous, and there will be a place for each of them.
Brian Kenyon (38:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And of course, when I mentioned anthropomorphic, I mean there's there's other descriptions I think that are anthropomorphic that do kind of show maybe if you want to call that continuity or something. But for example, the the body, you know, we we have this body now, but we're gonna have a new body in the resurrection. Right. But it's still called a body. I mean, it's nothing like that. New body is nothing like this one. And we just mentioned that earlier, some things about it that
That we're not going to know or whatever, but but notice what Paul says in first Corinthians fifteen but someone will say, How then are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come? Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. Verse thirty seven and what you sow you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain, perhaps wheat or some other grain, but God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh, and flesh and body can kind of be used interchangeable in this context. One kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another f of fish, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies. Notice how many times he's using body here and terrestrial bodies, but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There's one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, another glory of the stars, and
One star differs from another star in glory, and in this case it's glory and body might might be used interchangeable here. So also is the resurrection of the dead. She'll edit that cough. The body is sown in corruption, it. Now you have that it, what it? The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It, the body is sown in dishonor, it the body is raised in glory.
It the body is sown in weakness, it the body is raised in power, it the body is sown a natural body, it the body is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so notice all these are different, but he still uses the word body. But when we talk about that resurrected body, it's gonna be new, it's gonna be nothing like this body, but he's still using that word body because it's something that we can identify just like heavens and earth.
Steven Ford (40:24)
Yeah.
Brian Kenyon (40:25)
And then also a garment. You know, the Hebrews writer he'll use the word garment, and he'll be using that to refer to the created, the end of the created heavens and earth in which we now live. Notice in Hebrews 110, of course he's showing the eternity of of Jesus, but he says, And you, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain, and they will grow old like a garment, like a cloak. You will fold them up, and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will not fail. And so this created order here is is likened to a garment that'll be folded up and put away and used no more, but it will give way to
And of course emphasis here is on the Lord and his eternal nature. But the earth, you know, if you use the gar the old garment is what this earth is like, then a new garment, but again it's a newness that's nothing like the old, but yet it's still being still the garment, you know, terminology is used. And so, you know, that there there is that body, different body, garment, different garment. This heavens and earth, but a different one. And just a totally different
Nothing like this.
Steven Ford (41:56)
I would also ⁓ encourage for Bible students to be cautious and not to ⁓ and I say Bible students, which includes me. I don't want to make it seem I'm I'm telling other people to do something that I'm not ⁓ adherent to, but we any person who would considers themselves a Bible student not to carry analogies farther than the scripture does. You know, when we say new heavens and new earth, does that mean there's gotta be, you know, ⁓ grass and soil and, you know, ⁓ hydrogen molecules and you know, and so the the analogy carries only so far.
and then you've got to y so you don't distract from or take from or add to what's really being taught. You know, ⁓ even Jesus' parables. you can't go right beyond what the analogy is trying to teach.
Brian Kenyon (42:39)
Yeah, and that's why I think it was important for us when we established this in episode four that, you know, to understand the new heavens and new earth, you gotta understand the old heavens and old earths. And and again that term refers to the whole created order. I mean, you know, at least the created the part of creation which is not is meant to be temporal. I mean, like the human soul is created by God, but it's meant to be eternal, so it's gonna continue on. But all this temporal stuff is gonna be gone.
You know, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trunk. But anyway, okay, so that was ⁓ New Heavens and New Earth in Second Peter three. And then finally, in the closing part of this, ⁓ notice in Revelation 21 and verse 1, we do have that phrase being used again. So by way of introduction to this section of the book of Revelation, there are basically two views as to what these final two chapters figuratively depict.
You know, Revelation twenty one and twenty two. Now of note, when you look at Revelation twenty, and you look at verse ten, ⁓ the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Now that verse right there, and of course verse ten follow following that, you have the great white throne judgment, and ⁓
Course in the book of Revelation you have those cycles, the three cycles of the of the seals, or not three, but the seven seals, and you have the cycle of the of the trumpets coming after that, and you have the bowls of wrath coming after that, and each one of those cycles intensifies, if you will. ⁓ But this clearly is a picture of you know chapters 21-22 as are a picture of heaven, because it's after.
Satan is thrown into the lake of fire. Now, earlier in the chapter, you know, he was, you know, what you know, thousand years he was cast down the bottomless pit and a thousand year rain, all that kind of stuff, all figurative, and we can have lessons on that too later on. But ⁓ but here, and so this great white throne judgment is the judgment at the end of time. You know, parallel to Matthew twenty-five, parallel to, you know, the other passages where, you know.
1 Thessalonians 4, 13 through 18. Of course, that's more depicting, you know, the righteous and where they're going to be and all that. But there's only one final judgment. There's only one last day, although there are different depictions of it and and those things here. But ⁓ here, this these final chapters, number one, some see it as a purified, you know, through the trial of the church of Christ, in the world today. And so some some and I'm
Particularly thinking of Brotherhood commentaries, they'll talk about these two chapters, is this is not heaven, but it's the purified church, purified through the trial and tribulations that they have overcome. And then the other view is ⁓ post-judgment victorious church of Christ in eternal peace and security with God. And of course, these two views are not mutually exclusive in that the victorious church on earth will be the victorious church after judgment.
in the eternal presence of God. However, it seems best that the the view that depicts these two chapters as as heaven fit better in with the context of Revelation, as I just n just mentioned, because of what you have with those cycles intensifying, and especially to me the key is verse ten twenty verse ten, 'cause now here you have the pi the devil, you know, he's he's he's reached his final j his final judgment, 'cause he's cast into that lake of fire. Before he's
He's roaming around deceiving and all this kind of stuff. But now he's casting into that lake of fire, so he's not coming back. And with no devil being around, there's no reason, I mean, there's you have judgment, the final judgment, and then you have heaven or hell, depending upon whether they're in the book of life or not. All right. But from Revelation twelve, there have been a series of visions concerning the great war against the church, ⁓ the persecution of the saints.
And the judgment and punishment of God's enemies. And from this arrangement of the visions, it is logical that the next scene in order would be to portray the final glory of the church as it comes to rest with God beyond time. Okay? And so that opens up now I saw in chapter twenty-one, verse one, now I saw marks a new vision John is describing.
Which entailed a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and that's our word again from back in ⁓ second Peter three. Also there was no more sea. Revelation 21, verse 1. Now, as in Second Peter 3 13, the word new is translated from the word kinos, that refers to newness of quality. Thus the words new heavens and new earth emphasize the fact that the old universe
has not been removed, but has been replaced. It's gone. It's gone. It's destroyed and it's replaced. John is not looking for a new addition of the same thing, but he's looking at something that's that's brand new. It's totally different, totally new, but he still uses a description that we can lay hold of, New Jerusalem. Well parallel with New Jerusalem, but New Heavens and New Earth.
Alright, now the reason is that the old heavens and the old earth had passed away. And the scene right before this vision, as we mentioned earlier, is the final judgment scene where deity was sitting on a great white throne from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them. And so this creation, this heaven and earth, including the Hadean realm, because you know, in in that judgment scene, ⁓ death and Hades threw up.
gave up the dead in them, and the sea gave up the dead in it. So you have, you know, Hades giving up the dead, there's no no need for Hades anymore if the world is coming to an end. And so all that's going on in there. And so this creation, again, including the Hadesan realm, will have completed its purpose on judgment day. Again, Colossians one sixteen, all things were created by him and for him, for his purpose.
And their purposes will be complete on that last day. And so there will be no more use for this world. However, God's people will still need a dwelling place, but that dwelling place will not be for physical bodies, but for resurrected bodies transformed for an eternal abode with God. Again, 1 Corinthians 15, particularly verses 50 through 57. And so this new heaven and new earth and revelation.
Or with this there will be no more sea. Now the word translated sea occurs more here in the book of Revelation twenty six times than any other book. And in Revelation the sea can represent evil masses from which the seven headed ten horned beast arose in Revelation thirteen, verse one and following. Or it can refer to a place synonymous with Hades where the dead are kept. You know, death and Hades gave up the dead in them in the sea.
gave up the dead in them. However, there's also a use of the sea, and I think this is more fitting in Revelation chapters four and and five, but there's also a use of the sea in Revelation that represents transcendence of God. Also in Revelation 15 verse 2, and we can have lessons on that later too if we need to, but you know, from the first sin in Genesis 3 to the last day, Revelation 20 verse 11, humanity has been distanced from God.
And this goes all the way back to Exodus 33.20, Habakkuk 1.13, you know, God, you know, sin separates us from God, Isaiah 59. But it's only through the blood of Christ could this distance be bridged. And that's ⁓ you know, Colossians 3, 1 through 4 and other places. And so it's fitting then that there be no more see figuratively describes the closeness of God. After all sin and its consequences are removed, then mankind and God are once more in perfect fellowship.
Steven Ford (50:56)
That's right.
Brian Kenyon (51:14)
Nothing stands between us. What a great day. Thus the new heavens and the new earth that John describes is a complete transformation of all things, a complete re I mean, it's recreation, if you will. but again he uses language of heaven and earth, you know, that, you know, what what other language can he use that that will help us see the picture of what he's talking about? And again, you know, anthropomorphism type things.
Steven Ford (51:43)
I think one and two together also kinda helped the paint the picture. He says new heavens, new earth, verse one. Then he says that that holy city, the new Jerusalem. And so you think about okay, what's he talking about? Well what were what what are these two things? Well, if we say these are just basically places for God's people to dwell, heaven and earth, okay, we can see that place for us to dwell. Jerusalem, ⁓ wait, not just a place for people, but this is a place for God's people to dwell.
Where he had written his name, where his will is done, where righteousness dwells, we read earlier in 2 Peter 3. And so altogether I think it it when you look at it all, it paints the picture clearly. They God is allowing John to see something that probably lit really defies description. He's using his own words to describe what he sees, you know, talking about, you know, ⁓ streets, ⁓ sea of glass and streets gold and you know.
gates of purple and those sorts of things and looking like these various jewels and precious stones and all that kind of stuff. It's just seeing something that is so awesome and amazing that you're trying to put into your own words and you know, verse again, verses one and two I think help to identify what he's talking about. This is this is a dwelling place where the righteous will be.
Brian Kenyon (52:56)
Yeah, and then also all the descriptions, you know, like in twenty-one verse three, you know, the tabernacle of God is with men, he will dwell with them, they shall be his people, God himself will be with them, etcetera, etcetera. Just all those things is just spiritual. I mean, it's not nothing physical, nothing renovated earth about it, but it's just just spiritual bliss, beauty described in pictures. Right. That we've seen before in scripture.
That we can imagine just from the words being used. And so it's but you know, how else can God describe these things that are just beyond our comprehension?
Steven Ford (53:35)
Yeah, there's not a point real tabernacle like they would have had in the old testament. He even says that later on in chapter twenty one that look, there's there's not going to be a temple there. There's not it's not about the physical location. Like, hey, where's the church building at over here again? You know, yeah. There'll be no physical sun. God and the sun will be the light thereof, or the sun will be the light thereof, God and the sun will be the place of worship. we'll worship around the throne of God in his presence. And so, ⁓
You know, just putting these together without trying to take something, put it into the scriptures, just looking at all, ⁓ keep reading is kind of the idea. Keep reading, look at what it says, put one in one together and see how the image just comes out.
Brian Kenyon (54:17)
Yep, let me cough here. Rachel's gonna take care of that. Okay. Anyway. Yes, and so what a great discussion this this has been. But again, just to summarize it all, and again, this this is a kind of an offshoot of Isaiah, but we thought it was necessary to really complete the thought of the new heavens and new earth from Isaiah. But again, wherever that phrase is found, New Heavens and New Earth, the context must must be examined to ascertain the meaning of it.
Now clearly, as Episodes four and five will state, in Isaiah sixty five seventeen and sixty six twenty two, the term new heavens and new earth refers to the Messianic kingdom, which was inaugurated in Acts chapter two and will continue until the last day when quote he that is Jesus delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when he puts an end to all rule and all authority and power, for he must reign till he has put all enemies under his feet and
The last enemy that will be destroyed is death, first Corinthians fifteen twenty four through twenty eight, and this eternity with the Father after judgment day, also known as heaven, in Colossians one five, Hebrews ten thirty four, first Peter one four, is termed by Peter as new heavens and a new earth, second Peter three thirteen, and also in John, by John in Revelation twenty one verse one.
Isaiah prophesies about Jesus' first coming, not his second. Peter and John, however, their prophecies concern the final coming of Christ and the eternal spiritual environment that will be ushered in when this world is no more. And so may all the children of God stay faithful to reach that new heavens and new earth. And by making sure
We all, as Paul would say in Colossians 1.23, must continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and do not be moved away from the hope of the gospel which you have heard.
Steven Ford (56:24)
Ling ya.
Brian Kenyon (56:26)
And so may God bless us as we continue to study his Bible and look forward to that new dwelling that God will have prepared for us after this life is over and after Jesus comes again, and this world is reduced to nothingness. Once just like it was before Genesis 1 1. All right. Well, we appreciate you staying with us and listening to this. We will have one or two more lessons coming from Isaiah.
As we continue our sixth season, minoring in the majors, and then we'll move on to Jeremiah. We would appreciate your feedback, and I do appreciate the feedback that we do get from time to time as I'm out and about. And so keep on listening and sharing the link with others, for we think the content of this is very important, very interesting, and will help us to be closer to God. Have a great rest of your time.
Steven Ford (57:19)
This by phone ransom number on Calbo Calburne, Cruel Cowboy, Pave the way by blood and we with a bright shining crown.
Brian Kenyon (57:22)
Three one month over.
Yeah.
Praise the salvation has been brought down, glory, praise the Lord Salvation has been brought down.
Steven Ford (57:39)
In Batambo!
Brian Kenyon (57:47)
intelligent people inside
So our salvation is for some and see your kitchen and time.
Steven Ford (58:02)
Strength and so ⁓
For all creation, praise the Lord, the salvation has been brought down. All the moment. ⁓
Brian Kenyon (58:13)
Let's say
Yes, he paid. Jesus paid in all. In his blessed promises, we paid down. Salvation has been brought down. glory, praise Albert has been brought down.
Steven Ford (58:30)
Victory can be free!
Brian Kenyon (58:47)
Tell it to day two people in S.
Steven Ford (58:52)
So word of God that we might win.
Brian Kenyon (58:56)
Salvation control and prejudice.
⁓ And say don't get you and tell them.
Steven Ford (59:07)
Are in every time all of a creation for the Lord. There's a place where
Brian Kenyon (59:11)
Salvation has been brought.
I say home prepared for relax.
Steven Ford (59:23)
In my glory, land, I live in my glory and now I am there.
Brian Kenyon (59:25)
Blessed glory and trust in his love.
Steven Ford (59:33)
This is so easy.
Brian Kenyon (59:34)
Salvation has been brought down. glory, praise has been brought down.
Steven Ford (59:38)
Yeah.
Brian Kenyon (59:46)
Bridgetality! Sorrotality!
Steven Ford (59:48)
She's
Tomorrow preach the word of God and we shall cry. ⁓
Brian Kenyon (59:53)
We might
Salvation is full and free to
Steven Ford (1:00:01)
Famous for one year.
Father in every creation, praise the Lord, but the Lord's salvation has been brought down.