The Relationship Between a Nonprofit and a Church Partner-ft. Zac Whitley

In this episode, Pastor Wayne Walker, CEO of OurCalling, interviews Zac Whitley, the Director of City Engagement at Watermark Community Church. They delve into the church's strategic approach to engaging with local nonprofits in sectors such as education, incarceration, poverty alleviation, and homelessness. Whitley shares insights on creating effective partnerships by aligning missions, finding the partnership sweet spot, and mobilizing volunteers for shared discipleship opportunities. The discussion also touches on the significance of relationship-driven approaches to volunteering, emphasizing deep personal involvement and strategic volunteer integration to enhance community impact.
***************

- **Zac Whitley's Role** (00:50): Zac Whitley is the Director of City Engagement at Watermark Community Church.

- **Focus Areas of Engagement at Watermark** (01:01-01:24): The church focuses on local missions in various sectors including schools, prisons, poverty alleviation, and homelessness, working with 20 nonprofit partners.

- **Key Strategies for Successful Partnerships** (03:22-04:35): Whitley discusses three main strategies for creating effective church-nonprofit partnerships: being on mission together, finding a partnership sweet spot between biblical commands and community needs, and mobilizing volunteers for mutual discipleship opportunities.

- **Watermark’s Partnership Perspective** (04:57-06:36): The church seeks alignment where its mission coincides with nonprofit missions, emphasizing mutual discipleship among both the homeless and the volunteers.

- **Exclusivity in Partnerships** (06:36-07:21): Watermark chooses not to partner with organizations that don’t share a focus on evangelism or allow volunteers to share the gospel.

- **Practical Impact of Partnerships** (10:28-11:34): Emphasis is placed on engaging in partnerships that align with Watermark's values, such as relationship and discipleship, and development over relief.

- **Adaptation to Nonprofit Needs** (12:08-13:09): Whitley emphasizes adapting to the nonprofit’s operational rhythm and not over-imposing, ensuring meaningful contributions without creating burdens for the partner.

- **Church’s Role in Addressing Social Issues** (16:20-17:45): Highlighting personal connection and pastoral care even in organizational relationships, reflecting the deep personal involvement required to address social issues effectively.

- **Volunteer Mobilization and Impact** (35:05-36:02): Whitley articulates the importance of ensuring volunteer activities are impactful, avoiding redundant or unhelpful contributions that do not align with the host organization's strategic needs.

- **Fostering Deep Community Engagement** (42:06-44:22): How personal connections within the church can catalyze powerful partnerships and engagements with nonprofits, demonstrated by proactive engagement from both individual church members and church leadership.

- **Scaling Impact Through Strategic Volunteer Integration** (50:43-50:46): Whitley suggests nonprofits encourage church members who are already volunteering to advocate within their churches to institutionalize support and partnership.

These points gravitate around the practices and philosophies that underpin successful, transformative partnerships between religious organizations and nonprofits, focusing on shared missions, strategic integration, and mutual respect for each organization's capabilities and needs.

★ Support this podcast ★

Creators & Guests

Host

Wayne Walker

CEO and Pastor Wayne Walker serves as the CEO and Pastor to the homeless at OurCalling. In 2001, Wayne, along with his wife Carolyn, started serving the homeless community in Dallas. They founded OurCalling in 2009. During his youth, Wayne’s family actively pursued the scriptural commandment to “love your neighbor as yourself” by modeling the life of Jesus to scores of foster children whose own origins represented generations of human brokenness, dysfunction, sexual exploitation, and abuse. Early exposure to these destructive forces set him on a path to recognize the long-term effects of trauma, which often lead to homelessness. While completing his Master’s Degree in Cross-Cultural Ministry from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wayne befriended and ministered to men and women in the homeless community. During that time he began to establish personal, discipleship-oriented relationships with homeless individuals, many in the same urban setting where he and his family continue to work today.

Editor

Orange and Teal Productions

[e-mail]

Designer

Sarah Katherine

What is OurCalling - Our podcast about homelessness?

A Podcast by OurCalling—the goal is to be a learner. What can we learn about serving those experiencing homelessness? Even though we have years of experience, can we step back, take a fresh look, and rethink everything we know? OurCalling is a Christian nonprofit (501 c3) serving the homeless community throughout Dallas County in Texas. Our team helps people get to know Jesus and get off the streets every day. Last year, we helped individuals exit homelessness over 1,300 times. We have a facility in downtown Dallas, and our street outreach teams visit over 4,000 locations throughout the county. We serve about 10,000 individuals experiencing homelessness each year. We partner with the most amazing organizations and recognize that we are stronger when we work together.

Wayne Walker: 00:00

Today, I'm talking to Zach Whitley who works at Watermark Church. And we're talking about the partnership between a nonprofit and a church, how that relationship is supposed to work, examples where it doesn't work, and how to pick a good church partner and how a church partner to pick a good nonprofit. Who is our calling? What does our calling do to help the homeless? The nonprofit.

Wayne Walker: 00:21

We care with dignity. Our calling

Zac Whitley: 00:23

Can't help but think about the definition of Christian.

Wayne Walker: 00:25

Connect with intentionality.

Zac Whitley: 00:27

Called our calling To our calling.

Wayne Walker: 00:29

To our

Zac Whitley: 00:29

calling. We build community with integrity.

Wayne Walker: 00:33

Our calling This is our calling and our podcast, a word on the streets about homelessness. I'm here with my friend Zach from Watermark, and your role is specifically what?

Zac Whitley: 00:50

My role is specifically for city engagement. So I'm the director of city engagement at Watermark Community Church.

Wayne Walker: 00:56

City engagement, what does that mean? Like, Watermark's in a city, so that's, like, everything? What does that mean?

Zac Whitley: 01:01

Yeah. The city of Dallas is big, and it it could be everything, but, specifically, we mobilize the body. We mobilize Watermark Community Church to transform the community, and we're doing that through 9 different buckets of ministry. Things like schools, prisons, poverty alleviation, homelessness, 9 different areas, as well as 20 nonprofit partners are calling as an example of that.

Wayne Walker: 01:24

So, really, your focus, I'm a say this in a different language, is local outreach in the community?

Zac Whitley: 01:30

That's right. Local missions. Local outreach.

Wayne Walker: 01:32

Local missions? Yeah. So So you're like a missions pastor but without the passport.

Zac Whitley: 01:36

Just your friendly local missions pastor.

Wayne Walker: 01:38

There you go. Yeah. Well and we're talking about how churches and nonprofits partner together. And sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's chaos.

Wayne Walker: 01:47

And what we wanna learn is is from you is what Watermark does to partner with churches. I mean, I'm sure there's in a city as big as Dallas, with a church as impactful as Watermark with so many different members, I'm sure you get lots of nonprofits that knock on your door, want a partner, have some kind of ideas of what that relationship looks like. I'm sure you're having some partners that have been good experiences, some that have not been so good. I know I can tell you from our perspective, we've had church partners that have been terrible church partners and some that have been wonderful church partners. And you're here because Watermark has a great relationship with our calling.

Wayne Walker: 02:23

Yeah. But we want to learn what does it take to have a healthy relationship between a church and a nonprofit as we focus on serving the homeless community. So where do you think that starts?

Zac Whitley: 02:35

Well, well, Wayne, I'm honored that you would have me here to talk about that, and, we have a ton of fun with you and your crew. And I think this is a great example of of a healthy, productive, impactful partnership. Really highlight of my work is getting to do things like this with, our partners across the city and yes to all those things that you said in terms of, people knock on the door every day to have a relationship or say, how can we get Watermark's support? Either finances or volunteers, all those things, and, getting to walk through conflict resolution with partners, getting to walk through significant funding opportunities with partners, all of those things. But, I think I'd I'd categorize building powerful partnerships into 3 different buckets, for the sake of our conversation today.

Zac Whitley: 03:22

And so that looks like being on mission together, having fun together in that mission, prioritizing partnership and finding the sweet spot between biblical commands, community needs, and church or partnership strengths.

Wayne Walker: 03:37

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley: 03:38

And then lastly, mobilizing volunteers into mutually impactful discipleship opportunities.

Wayne Walker: 03:45

So let me just tell you, let me just say that we're cheating here. Mhmm. You and I have done this discussion before.

Zac Whitley: 03:52

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 03:53

We spoke together at the church leadership conference at Watermark.

Zac Whitley: 03:56

That's right.

Wayne Walker: 03:57

This is our material. We just wanted to kinda redo it here in this format and actually have more of a candid one on one conversation.

Zac Whitley: 04:04

Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 04:04

So start at the very beginning. When you say you said being on mission together, The second one was what?

Zac Whitley: 04:10

Yeah. So the first one, being on mission together. Yep. The second one, prioritizing partnership in the sweet spot. Think of a a Venn diagram Yep.

Zac Whitley: 04:18

Of the sweet spot of biblical commands, community needs, and then church or partnership strengths.

Wayne Walker: 04:25

And the 3rd?

Zac Whitley: 04:26

The 3rd, mobilizing people into mutually impactful discipleship opportunities.

Wayne Walker: 04:31

Man, you sound so professional and prepared like you've wrote this down before or something.

Zac Whitley: 04:35

This is we have done this before, but I feel like I'm more in the hot seat because I think at our church leaders conference, I was asking you Yeah. From a partner's perspective, how can a church be a good partner? And today, it's a little bit more of as a church, how can the church be a great partner to nonprofits across our city?

Wayne Walker: 04:53

So start with the first one, being on mission together. From a church's perspective, what does that mean?

Zac Whitley: 04:57

Yeah. So, I mean, specifically at Watermark, we're abiding in Jesus, making disciples together. And so at a high level, we want the organization's missions to align in that way and that's what I love about our calling, because you wanna make disciples on the streets And that goes two ways. You don't wanna just make disciples of the homeless community leading them to Jesus and then off the streets, but you also wanna make disciples of the people serving of me when I come to serve with you to be a better follower of Jesus myself and then love and serve my neighbor in the homeless community even better. And so at a high level, I mean, our our missions align.

Zac Whitley: 05:37

And then perhaps as as just local missions teams, they've probably got some values or missions of their own. For example, some of ours are to have collaborative partnerships. Watermark does not have a homeless ministry outreach run by Watermark or a Watermark leader. We partner with our calling for that purpose. We trust the experts to be the experts and collaborate in partnership that way.

Wayne Walker: 06:01

So when you partner with a group that's on mission together, does that mean and I'm just gonna be very specific here, do you partner with organizations that aren't necessarily Christ centered projecting presenting the gospel proselytizing? If you said your focus is evangelism discipleship kind of focus, are are is the church should the church, partner with organizations that are believers doing great work but not necessarily from a missional perspective evangelizing?

Zac Whitley: 06:36

That's a good question, and maybe I'd I'd rather be descriptive than prescriptive. Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 06:41

I

Zac Whitley: 06:41

mean, it depends on your on your context in your church. For for Watermark, we've got a great opportunity to be great stewards of of resources, and and Watermark is unique. And so to answer your specific question of do we partner with organizations that don't proselytize, that aren't evangelical or wouldn't allow volunteers to share the gospel, we would we would say no. I wouldn't choose to partner with them, but Dallas is a city where there is a uniquely high, level of nonprofits, and we can be more selective Yeah. With our resources, with time, talent, and treasure, but we also have a value that we wanna go out and serve with good deeds and good works.

Zac Whitley: 07:21

We don't wanna just roll up our sleeves and go out and do good works for the sake of the gospel. That's valuable. That's important. But we also wanna, have words. We wanna go out and be able to share our faith and be able to partner both of those things together.

Wayne Walker: 07:35

And I love it because sometimes you guys volunteer in areas where you're sharing your faith in organizations that aren't necessarily Christian, but it they still give you an opportunity Mhmm. Right, to be the hands and feet of Christ. I think of the schools.

Zac Whitley: 07:49

Mhmm. Yeah. That's what came to mind too. Yeah. And so even in my answer, like, in the school systems, you're up against a certain speed limit, and you gotta follow the speed limit Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 08:00

Within the schools. And, you can't share your faith with a student openly unless they ask you a question. And so we partner with faith based organizations within schools for mentorship and we partner with Young Life and they all have a different system that they ebb and flow with, either the rules of the principal or the rules as a district as a whole. But, again, we wanna have the opportunity, to be able to have good news and good works in what we do.

Wayne Walker: 08:29

I love that. Good news and good works. Practical applications of this, you know, we've had churches that have come to us with a very different mission. Sometimes they're trying to solve a a problem that we don't think is a problem, or they're trying to do things in a very different way than we are. And we've got, you know, so many different, examples of this.

Wayne Walker: 08:53

I think the ones that I find most offensive is when groups come down to serve the homeless community as though it's a petting zoo. Right? They want a safari of poverty. They want to see 1, touch 1, take a selfie with 1 as though they've done some magical good thing. And and letting people see what they do is more important than the actual people they're serving.

Wayne Walker: 09:13

And Yeah. In some ways, they can wanna exploit the people that we serve with photos and with media. I can think of groups that show up that won't show up unless they can bring cameras. Right? Unless they can make it a big kind of production piece.

Wayne Walker: 09:25

Yeah. And to me, that's just super, super offensive in in in it. But not only that, it is contrary to the mission. Right? You said it's gotta be you said being on mission together.

Wayne Walker: 09:37

It's contrary to the mission of, of what we're trying to do. Yeah. Another way is, we have some organizations that want to analyze us like a hedge fund, and they wanna look at very specifics and even some churches that do that on inputs, outputs, outcomes. And as we're trying to see spiritual fruit, we're trying to see things we're trying to produce fruit that we can't grow. Right?

Wayne Walker: 10:04

Spiritual fruit is created by the Lord and the Holy Spirit's growing up people, and we can contribute to the process, but we can't make

Zac Whitley: 10:12

fruit grow.

Wayne Walker: 10:13

Right? So to me, it's it's important that, missionally, we're aligned on we wanna see people walk with Jesus and get off the streets, and it's neat to have a church partner and find church partners that that's a that's a priority to them too.

Zac Whitley: 10:28

Yeah. Yeah. I think you'd say let let let me just outline some of our values because I know I know we share them. And so, the values to our external focus team of how we're going out locally and globally are collaborative partnerships, good news, good works, relationship and discipleship, equipping the saints for the work of ministry. And by that, I mean, our our city team is not the one doing the work.

Zac Whitley: 10:53

It's it's the hands and feet of Jesus, the church coming out to do that. Having impact over activity, and then having development over relief. And so I'm thinking of an example of just being a good church partner and knowing, that you value this as well. When we bring a group out to serve, I would hate for anyone to see us as coming to do it for the sake of Watermark, to have the name in in in bright lights, and we're here, for the publicity of Watermark. We wanna be really sensitive to the discipleship opportunity of our volunteers and not adding more work to your plate or your team's plate.

Zac Whitley: 11:34

Right? Your volunteer coordinators. And so we're intentional of trying not to have just a watermark survey where we come out with 200, 300 people. And now, we might have done this in the past though, but we've learned and we've grown. And our latest is we love to come out with 15, 20 people on a Saturday where you're already doing specific outreach or specific onboarding and integrate into what you're already doing to try and not create more work for your team, and just plug into the existing rhythms of your ministry.

Wayne Walker: 12:08

That is so beautiful because as you're saying that, I'm thinking of a very particular church, I won't mention their name, in Dallas that wants to come down and do take over our calling on a Saturday. They wanna put up a sign that has their church's name that they're doing this thing to serve the homeless community at our facility, which is great. We'd love for them to come, but then they wanna change what we do. They wanna do things their way, the things that they think are important to the way that they wanna serve the homeless community. In fact, doing some things that we think are dangerous, you know, not really helping people where they are.

Wayne Walker: 12:43

You know, we for example, we give out a lot of resources here, but we do that with accountability. You're gonna come in. You're experiencing homelessness. We're gonna look you up, Zach. You're gonna ask for a pair of shoes.

Wayne Walker: 12:53

Our system's gonna say, sorry, bro. You got shoes last week.

Zac Whitley: 12:55

Yep.

Wayne Walker: 12:56

You know, we we wanna make sure there's enough shoes to go around. We know shoes are one of the most traded commodities on the streets. For pope people that don't have cash, they're bartering something. And but then we have groups that come down and wanna bring a truckload of shoes and give everybody 3 pairs of shoes. Right?

Wayne Walker: 13:09

Or they they come down and they wanna give away an amount or a kind of item that we know is actually dangerous or not very helpful. You know, for example, we don't give out tents. You know, years ago, we gave out tents. I mean, I personally bought thousands of tents and given them out. Then I got convicted that that's not the best way to help the people that we serve, that we wanna help them get off the street Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 13:32

Not help them camp there for the rest of their lives because the longer they stay there, the sooner they'll die there. So for us, our philosophy is really how do we help you walk with Jesus and get off the streets, and helping you set up a camp with tents and all these supplies and a basketball goal and all these resources isn't helping you leave. Yeah. It's helping you get comfortable in a really deadly and dangerous scenario. So having an aligned mission is so important, and I love the humility of a church that says, look, we just wanna come be a part of what you guys are doing.

Wayne Walker: 14:04

And, honestly, it's it's like a donor that says, I don't want anybody to know my name. Yeah. I just wanna give the money because it's the Lord's work, and I wanna support that versus someone that, you know, kinda wants their name on everything like a church. We want our name on everything to say, look at what we're doing. We're so cool.

Wayne Walker: 14:20

And so I I love the the idea of just embedding into what nonprofits are currently doing and doing it in a way that honors, you know, the strategy that nonprofits have figured out works, like in our space, that we don't tell Watermark how to do church, and you guys don't tell us how to work with the homeless community. Yeah. We both can invest in each other in those areas. We both can give each other feedback, but we rely on each other for the expertise that we have, and we trust each other in that relationship.

Zac Whitley: 14:51

Yeah. One of the things that I really admire about y'all and high value for both of us is that relationship and discipleship component and being in the relationship business where we're helping people with their their spiritual poverty, that they don't have that relationship with Jesus perhaps or they're not following as closely as perhaps or or they don't understand life transformation perhaps. And if we're bringing in 300 people, the relationship piece gets harder and harder. The proximity piece gets harder and harder. And when we've got relationship and discipleship with the ability to get closer to 1 on 1 and closer to individuals, even thinking of, coming down to our calling as a as a 30 minute drive and how we encourage our church to get out on the corner as they turn out of our church to engage in courageous conversations for the sake of relation relationship and discipleship.

Zac Whitley: 15:43

I mean, that's when when transformation happens. It brings people closer to one another, reconciles them to one another, more importantly, the hope of reconciling them to God, and then really getting to the root issues of why they find themselves where they are today.

Wayne Walker: 15:58

Yeah. I I think about the mission of Watermark is not just something they said from the pulpit. It's something that you guys have really lived out in your relationships with us as an organization, and I'll just be blunt and and, a little bit, honest here with me personally. Right. I remember a lunch that you and I had years ago with Blake.

Wayne Walker: 16:20

Yeah. Right. When Blake had just become the lead pastor of the church and, and we were sitting and he was meeting all the different non profits, I guess. So he probably took me to lunch with along with a bunch of the other people. But we sat at a, cafe together and to have lunch.

Wayne Walker: 16:35

And Blake says, hey, Wayne. So tell me all about what's going on with our calling and start telling him all the stuff. And about 10 minutes into the launch, he goes, okay. Pause. That's enough.

Wayne Walker: 16:45

Appreciate that. That's awesome. Cool. Now I wanna learn about Wayne. How's Wayne doing?

Wayne Walker: 16:49

Mhmm. How's your walk with the Lord? Mhmm. How's your marriage? How are you doing?

Zac Whitley: 16:54

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 16:55

And I sat there at that table, and I got emotional. And I was thinking, wow. He doesn't just care about the organization and the opportunities for his church. Mhmm. He He cares about me.

Wayne Walker: 17:08

Mhmm. And it wasn't him putting on a show. That's not and that's not just who Blake is. That's who Watermark Leadership is.

Zac Whitley: 17:15

Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 17:15

Right? Investing in people that aligned mission, that relationship is so important, not just relationship between watching our calling staff work with someone experiencing homelessness, that relation, and not just a relationship of teaching the members at Watermark how to be relational with the homeless guy on the corner down by the street, but the relational opportunity that your staff has had in ministering to me personally.

Zac Whitley: 17:42

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 17:42

And I've seen that with so many of our staff. That's just beautiful.

Zac Whitley: 17:45

Yeah. Yeah. Abiding in Jesus, we're making disciples together, and that's the togetherness. I mean, partnership is so much more than butts in seats for for volunteering or putting money into your mission. Those are important, but I think partnership is so much more than that.

Zac Whitley: 18:00

When you're able to operate out of values, mission, operate out of a sweet spot.

Wayne Walker: 18:05

And, a little bit of additional vulnerability here. So my wife and I started attending Watermark, about 4 years ago, and I think it was after, Blake and I had met for lunch. And, you know, we we were looking for a a church home and and we knew a lot of people at Watermark, and the opportunity there was beautiful. But our our relationship as a member of Watermark has no bearing on our relationship as an organization. Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 18:36

Because the relationship with the organization is many years old.

Zac Whitley: 18:39

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 18:40

Where the relationship as a member attending a church now, now you guy you and I are co members at a church where before, you know, you're just another church partner guy that we try to connect with and Yeah. You know, try to chase down. Yeah. But now I can text you weird things at church.

Zac Whitley: 18:53

Yeah. That's right. I I get to work with a lot of other executive directors, CEOs that are not Watermark members, and I hope they feel the same level of of care and connection, that you do as the leader of our calling and the member at Watermark. But I love getting to pray with you, see you at men's bible study, plug your whole team into our church leadership conference. We've done dozens of things together

Wayne Walker: 19:18

Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 19:19

That have been a lot of fun. And, it's fun getting to do it with a church member, with a fellow Watermark member, but that certainly has no bearing. We're not exclusive to Watermark members in our partnerships.

Wayne Walker: 19:30

Yeah. Y'all were inviting our our staff to the church leadership conference before, you know, we we were members. So and I just I just think it's so consistent in what you guys do.

Zac Whitley: 19:40

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 19:41

Okay. So the second area you said is prioritize partnership. Mhmm. Right? Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 19:49

Explain that.

Zac Whitley: 19:50

Yeah. Specifically, I'm a visual person, and this has always stood out to me. Yep. And so think of a a Venn diagram of 3 circles

Wayne Walker: 19:58

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley: 19:58

And we wanna operate out of the sweet spot of church strengths, biblical commands, and community needs. And so where all of those overlap is where Watermark chooses to invest. And so church strengths, recovery ministry, volunteers, people that want to dive into that head on is a is a strength at Watermark.

Wayne Walker: 20:21

K.

Zac Whitley: 20:22

That aligns with the biblical commands of of loving our neighbor or seeking the welfare of our city. Yeah. And then community needs. It is no secret to anyone that attends Watermark, that the homeless population, those experiencing homelessness, that's on the rise. And that seems to be getting even, like, closer and closer to our church which raises the level of awareness and raises the value of engagement.

Zac Whitley: 20:49

So combine those three things and you've got an area of overlap which has helped us define homelessness as an area of opportunity, in an area of investment, and that's why we've chosen to partner with our calling.

Wayne Walker: 21:02

The last part of that was biblical commands. Mhmm. So this Venn diagram, what are the biblical commands in there that you think are important for those for that priority?

Zac Whitley: 21:12

Yeah. I think of, Jesus saying, when you fed me, when you clothed me, when you met me in my need, when you met anyone with those, then you did that also to me. Or love the lord with all your heart, soul, strength, mind, and love your neighbor as yourself. And getting to work with our calling, it's really helped me redefine who my neighbor is, and how to apply that and live that out every day.

Wayne Walker: 21:41

So you talked about the gifts and strengths of Watermark and how they overlap with the needs in the community with biblical commands. Right? That is building lens, if you would, that Watermark uses to determine who would be a good partner. Mhmm. Right?

Wayne Walker: 21:59

Mhmm. So give some examples, you know, of how those lenses have led you guys away from opportunities or how those that lens has led you toward an opportunity.

Zac Whitley: 22:15

That's a great question.

Wayne Walker: 22:16

So I'll give you an example. So if an organization knocks on your door and wants to be a partner with Watermark, how would this lens make you look at an organization and say, it's probably not a good fit?

Zac Whitley: 22:27

Yeah. Well, it's the rubric that we used to establish each of our, what we call, impact areas, and the impact area is the sweet spot. It's why we've said yes as a church to to clearly invest in prisons, in public schools, caring for children, caring for the vulnerable, caring for the poor, caring for those in prison, going to visit them. It's why we said yes to those things. And so we defined those nine areas of ministry first through that sweet spot and then aligned each of our partnerships within those areas.

Wayne Walker: 23:01

Okay.

Zac Whitley: 23:02

And so I think of, our anti sex trafficking team. And it happens to be an area of where we overlap to. When we see, the woman at the well, even in Jesus' compassion, in ensuring that she not just has her needs met and bridges built and stereotypes broken and shattered, and sharing that, like, he is the one true way that she's gonna quench her thirst. We see the need to address anti sex trafficking in that because on our corners, as we're coming out, we see women being exploited. Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 23:40

We see women women being treated as a commodity. We know out of our work in homelessness, there's a there's a high overlap with women experiencing homelessness. And then within our church, we had a handful of leaders raise their hand and say, we wanna champion this effort. We wanna lean in and we wanna start the street outreach team.

Wayne Walker: 24:01

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley: 24:01

And we wanna start the strip club team. And we wanna partner with our calling refuge for women and a couple other partners over the years. And so each of these ministry opportunities that we've said yes to is all because they've aligned with that ministry sweet spot. And you can take that one click further in even thinking about our specific partnership and thinking about ways that Watermark can then specifically invest in our calling. And so, yeah, it's great.

Zac Whitley: 24:29

We want to introduce the next 100 people to our calling and be serving here because we love the work that you're doing. But we also wanna have that impact over activity where Watermark's unique church strengths can do unique and specific things for you other than checking people in, other than folding t shirts, other than helping people, get their showers and clothes washed. We wanna be able to help with things like IT or finding board members or providing health care. We wanna find unique, specific, impactful ways that our members, our church members, can use their gifts, specifically for our calling.

Wayne Walker: 25:10

One example of this, is an area where we really need some expertise. So we have medical needs here in the homeless community, and we have 3 different medical providers that show up here. But one of those is Watermark Health. Mhmm. So you guys have a little tiny home on wheels.

Wayne Walker: 25:29

Right? You bring it up here, and it's a mobile clinic. Yep. Right? They're doing full scale medical clinic.

Wayne Walker: 25:33

They'll do sutures, and they'll get prescriptions. And, I mean, it's doctors doing real stuff. Right? During inclement weather, we need help. And it's hard to get medical providers to come out when there's needs and Watermark Health comes and it helps us.

Wayne Walker: 25:47

But where I think it's been really great for us in addition to those to rely on the wisdom and the knowledge and the strength of Watermark is as we're building a tiny home community. Yeah. And we're trying to figure out how to design a clinic and what are the medical needs of these residents that are going to be moving in there. Watermark Health has provided some very unique leadership in what a clinic needs Mhmm. And what serving this community looks like from a medical perspective.

Wayne Walker: 26:14

Mhmm. Right? I can tell you what needs to go in the van that does street outreach for our team. Yeah. But I don't know what kind of medical challenges.

Wayne Walker: 26:22

I mean, I can probably come up with a list, but not from the of a medical provider. And so that's one of those strengths areas that Watermark has. They are blessing us and helping us design and then eventually run a clinic for our tiny home community. Yeah. Which is really cool.

Zac Whitley: 26:38

It's really cool.

Wayne Walker: 26:38

One of the ways they did that is they did a survey with a lot of our guests here to figure out what are the major health issues, what are the ongoing challenges. And as surveying them as they do, you know, continue to to serve here, they're coming up with this list of, okay, these are the needs. These are the problems we're gonna have. These are the medications we're gonna need on-site. These are the, you know, physical pieces we're gonna need for wound care, for all those kind of things, and they're helping us become better at our job by using their strengths here.

Zac Whitley: 27:07

Yeah. 2 things that come to mind is, if you're a church leader listening, and you don't know the strengths that are sitting in your seats, sitting in your pews, find a way to survey that. At Watermark, we've over the years surveyed how people want to use their gifts or the professions that they're in that might be beneficial or those credentials, certifications that they have that we might be able to leverage. Healthcare is a great example of that. We always joke it's really important to have someone holding the door and greeting people as they come in.

Zac Whitley: 27:38

If that person is a doctor or a dentist, maybe there's a better way or a different way you can use their strengths as long as they're willing to do so and we know a lot of our members, through surveying them, the relationships we have getting to know them. But then nonprofit leader, you do a great job of making sure that you alert us of your needs. You ask the question. Walking up here today, I I got to talk to your your volunteer team and I know this week they met with our leader over our prison ministry, to talk about how to onboard and utilize volunteer hours from formerly incarcerated individuals. And how do they do that well?

Zac Whitley: 28:18

How do they set boundaries? How do they navigate certain charges or offenses that someone might have on their record? Well well, your team was proactive and took the initiative and knew the ministries and the leaders that we had because of the relationship, and they sought Watermark out. They sought, not me, but they sought our leader of prison ministry out

Wayne Walker: 28:38

Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 28:38

The expert to ask the questions.

Wayne Walker: 28:40

Yeah. We have a lot of people to come and do community service here, and they're required to, by law, to get their hours in. And then our team has to figure out, okay, how do we connect them well and how do we serve them well, recognizing that they just have some unique challenges Yeah. And so unique struggles because of unique history. Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 28:57

So that's cool.

Zac Whitley: 28:57

Yeah. Well, your your facility team has come and toured Watermark to learn about our facilities, our structure, the tickets, the repairs, all those things. Our security teams have have traded trainings on how to be warm and welcoming, but also secure in what we do. Our teams get to throw softballs back to each other, so often.

Wayne Walker: 29:20

And that our relationship is so unique. Yeah. So we have churches that will call us and say, hey. We got one behind the building. Like, we're, you know, some kind of animal services, and there's a rabid dog, and they'll talk about someone experiencing homelessness at their facility as though they want us to come deal with the problem Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 29:42

Versus a church that says, hey, we have some people that experience homelessness that come to Regen, that come to our singles ministry on Monday night, that come to church on Sunday. And we wanna know how to serve them well. Mhmm. We wanna know how to partner with you guys. And some of them are gonna be members at the church, and you wanna have members that are cared for in unique ways.

Wayne Walker: 30:04

Some of them are just visitors at the church. And you want to know how to gracefully help them find their way and have connect to services that they need. That's a partnership that's very unique.

Zac Whitley: 30:13

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 30:14

To me, every time I think about it, it just makes me so happy because I've seen the opposite so many times. Mhmm. One way is that Watermark has helped us is, you know, we built some really cool software, and it it it many points along the road, we've needed wisdom that we didn't have. You know, you always pray to the Lord of the harvest to send workers. It's not just because there's a lot of labor, but sometimes it's very specific labor that you're really not sure how to do.

Wayne Walker: 30:40

And so years ago, one of your staff led a charge to help us build a technology advisory committee. Yeah. With technology guys that most of them were from Watermark, some of them aren't. And their members or staff members there that really have an experience in building a software company, understanding the stages of the startup process, understanding, you know, the go to market strategies and technology and how to build the platforms, technology and how to build the platforms and enterprise level stuff. That's really provided such a great wisdom and breadth of knowledge here.

Wayne Walker: 31:05

That's been really, really cool. Yeah. You got a few watermark guys

Zac Whitley: 31:14

still doing that today.

Wayne Walker: 31:15

Yeah. I think we post a few guys off your staff.

Zac Whitley: 31:17

That's right. That's right. I love every winter. Well, let me rephrase that. Winter is really hard when you do inclement weather Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 31:25

Yeah. And you take over the the response for sheltering 100 of individuals when it's freezing cold. And it makes me think of the uniqueness of our partnership of you getting to work in in Fair Park and taking over a building and turning it into a homeless shelter overnight, so that way people aren't dying on the streets. And, it has been a joy of Watermark Health getting to come and set up a pop up clinic there. It has been a joy getting to send young adults, who just have a a fire and a spirit for adventure and service to come down.

Zac Whitley: 32:03

They load up their 4 wheel drive trucks and come and drop off blankets and sweats or our team even just coming to get to serve and bring in a dozen people with us all in one car and serving on those days or making connections to like minded organizations like Texans on Mission, formerly Texas Texas Baptist men who come and deliver food, and work with you guys. And so, it's just really fun that we've created this little ecosystem of of pointing to one another and And it's fun. Working alongside each other.

Wayne Walker: 32:34

Each church has their own little gig. Right? The thing they wanna help with. And when, you know, we step in and help with inclement weather, and it's not just in our calling thing. We partner with a lot of organizations, you know, Austin Street and and others to put it together with the police department and fire department in the city.

Wayne Walker: 32:50

Watermark serves in a very unique way. I'm gonna raise another partner of ours that's not a church. Mhmm. It's the East Plano Islamic Center. Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 32:58

The mosque. Yeah. Right? So they'll text me in the middle of ice and say what you need. You know?

Wayne Walker: 33:04

And I'm it is so cool because, years ago, the way this happened is I said, hey. We need some blankets. They sent a message out to the entire mosque, and their message was everybody be at the mosque within an hour with an armful of blankets.

Zac Whitley: 33:17

Wow.

Wayne Walker: 33:18

And then they rented or had 3 box trucks that they filled up. Instead of trying to get thousands of people to come see us, 3 box trucks showed up full to the ceiling. I mean, we made a pile. It was, like, 15 feet tall

Zac Whitley: 33:30

That's amazing.

Wayne Walker: 33:31

Blankets. And that's just so cool that that's what they could do. Yeah. Right? So every group serves in their own way.

Wayne Walker: 33:36

We have some churches that say we wanna cover a meal for the staff or we wanna help provide medical services, and so that's that's just really, really cool.

Zac Whitley: 33:44

Man, the Islamic Association doing that. I hope it's like a healthy level of competition. I'm like, come on, church. Like, let's go. Like Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 33:52

Let's respond in that way. But then also Yeah. Like, what a great discipleship opportunity of what when Jesus says, like, how you love and serve, they will know that you're my disciples. Man, I hope the Islamic Association saw all these people in their green, loving and serving. And hopefully, churches were there too, and they thought, wow.

Zac Whitley: 34:12

What's different? What's different about this crew?

Wayne Walker: 34:14

You know, we love our Muslim brothers and sisters. And if any of them watch this, salaam alaikum, you know, we we just love the relationships that we have there. I I got invited to the mosque to speak at the breaking of the fast service, and, I got up and I talked about Jesus. Yeah. And why what we do is, you know, in all the the religious text in the world, we all focus intently on these words that only Jesus said Jesus, the Son of God who said, Love your neighbor as yourself.

Wayne Walker: 34:44

And that's the example we're trying to set, and that's the one we're really trying to follow because he's the only one that connect us to the father. Right. And getting an opportunity to communicate with them as we serve together is just a beautiful Mhmm. Beautiful thing. Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 34:56

So Watermark Health, tech advisory board. I'm going over my notes here. Inclement weather. The last one you said was mobilized volunteers. Explain that.

Zac Whitley: 35:05

Yeah. So really elevating impactful partnerships again. Right? We wanna mobilize volunteers into mutually impactful discipleship opportunities. And so when we point people to our calling by impactful, I mean, folding shirts is great.

Zac Whitley: 35:22

There's a there's a purpose for that. Serving food is is is great and wonderful, but I wanna be intentional to where and how we're serving that, we're not folding the same shirts that you folded yesterday

Wayne Walker: 35:33

Yeah.

Zac Whitley: 35:33

Or we're not giving out, turkeys to the homeless community for Thanksgiving dinner. All things that that you value too. And so we wanna be intentional that when people are mobilized, I wanna follow where that mobilization effort goes. And so when we've got people out, the hands and feet people out being the hands and feet of Jesus, I wanna lean in and I wanna support the efforts that they're supporting. I wanna say yes to the things that they're doing.

Zac Whitley: 36:02

We wanna equip the saints for the work of ministry, and so I follow where those where those hands and feet go and I wanna say yes to really pouring gasoline on their fire where they're wherever they're at to provide them with the support that they need. If that's a budget, provide them with the support that they need. If that's increased administrative capacity or finding leaders, and I want them being able to do impactful ministry and removing as many barriers as possible, both on the church side and the partner side.

Wayne Walker: 36:32

K. I'm shaking my head as you're saying this because I get to think good

Zac Whitley: 36:36

a good head shake.

Wayne Walker: 36:37

Yes. I get to give so many bad examples. So here, we serve 4,000 meals a week, and we have a big facility. Right? People come in here.

Wayne Walker: 36:47

We're distributing clothes every day. We have a church service here, bible studies, recovery class, showers, laundry, all this stuff. Right? It's amazing to me that a church will organize an opportunity to bring their cars down and park across

Zac Whitley: 37:02

the street right outside.

Wayne Walker: 37:04

And serve a meal while we're serving a meal Uh-huh. And pass out clothes while we're passing out clothes. Like, their are their clothes better than ours or their meal better than it's look. Why are we not serving together?

Zac Whitley: 37:14

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 37:15

Right? Why why do we have this competition thing? So years ago, we started this Thanksgiving event, and it got to be huge. I mean, we had a 1,000 people show up. Right?

Wayne Walker: 37:24

And it was really cool because when we started doing this years ago, there was no other Thanksgiving event. If everybody's got Christmas events, there wasn't really a Thanksgiving event for the homeless community. But then it got to be like a competition where groups had tried to be put on, you know, outdo each other. And it got to be so crazy that some churches would try to host a Thanksgiving event at their church. So they would bring buses down and pick up all of our people from our event and take them away to their church on Thanksgiving Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 37:53

To do their special Thanksgiving thing instead of partnering with us. Because the day after Thanksgiving, that church doesn't have much to offer those group the people to help them really walk with Jesus and get off the streets. Mhmm. In fact, those same churches that the day after, if a guy was to show up there, they'd say turn around and go back to our calling. Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 38:11

Like, why not serve together? Yeah. Right? Partner with us together. So now we do our thanksgiving event the day before thanksgiving, which our staff really love so that I can go home.

Wayne Walker: 38:22

But really just gives us an opportunity because we invite we have hundreds of church partners and some serve in really strategic ways, and some of them just send people to serve with us. Mhmm. All of those are important. But to serve with us, beside us, contributing in their own special way. Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 38:39

Mobilizing volunteers, is is so important because we need people to serve in very specific areas, like you said. Mhmm. You know, we we have a CFO. We have financial responsibilities, a fiduciary role here, and having people that can provide financial oversight or insight is important. Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 39:00

We have an administrative team, our chief people officer, and we're hiring people and have HR challenges. And how we're gonna do staff benefits, and having conversations with some people on your staff are like, well, how do how do y'all do benefits? You know, some of those conversations that, you know, we need to know from your ops team, we need to know from, your security team is is is really been beautiful. But one of the practical ways I think we've been able to work together is is some of the training that you do with your staff members once a month. Mhmm.

Wayne Walker: 39:30

Can you explain that?

Zac Whitley: 39:31

Yeah. Yeah. So we have a a process in place that's that's a staff on call. And so we're fortunate at Watermark. We have about 2 100, 250 staff members.

Zac Whitley: 39:44

And with that, just keeping on topic, I would say every day at Watermark, there's 2 or 3, individuals experiencing homelessness that walk in to Watermark. And so we've got a process in place where it is no one team's job and it's also not everybody's job because if it's everybody's job, it's nobody's job. We have a rotating system of 4 staff on call. And these 4 people, 2 men, 2 women are ready at all times, to field whatever comes. Any question?

Zac Whitley: 40:17

Any question, any phone call, any walk in, marriage, addiction, homelessness, battered abuse, young, old, anything. We got 4 people always on call. And so when that happens, they're quickly notified, and they come and meet them within 5 minutes, 5 minutes or less. And so what our team has done, what our local outreach team has done is been able to step in on a monthly training, and all staff receive training on what does it mean to be staff on call. How are you prepared for these things?

Zac Whitley: 40:48

How are you faithful? How are you prayed up? How are you approaching this not alone, always taking someone with you? And then we get to speak, train, teach specifically on homelessness. And so over the course of the year, all 200 staff have been trained on what does it look like to engage in conversations, and then specifically, what does it look like in fielding that conversation and connection with someone experiencing homelessness as well as what's the value in our calling.

Zac Whitley: 41:19

And I hope that your your receptionist or whoever fields the phone calls here, isn't getting, you know, 5 phone calls a day from Watermark staff because they just pick it up and say, our calling, come and pick them up. Help us out. No. We're intentional that, this is an opportunity to get to sit and diagnose and build relationship. You've taught us all that the number one reason someone's experiencing homelessness is because of a loss of community.

Zac Whitley: 41:45

Mhmm. Well, at Watermark, I think we have a strength and we excel in what community is. And so our staff gets to sit with them, learn about them, who they are, where they've been, where they're going, and ultimately invite them to church on Sunday or invite them to recovery on Monday night or get to engage with them through our calling, and stick by their side throughout that process.

Wayne Walker: 42:07

I love it. Because community is so important, we're reminded that community is your middle name. Mhmm. Watermark Community Church. Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 42:17

One last story. I I got a call one day from a friend of mine who's an elder at a church, and he said, Wayne, we have to have an emergency meeting with our elders. Can you join us? Like, what did I do? I don't even go to your church.

Zac Whitley: 42:30

You know,

Wayne Walker: 42:32

what did I break? And so the next day they scheduled this call. It was all on Zoom just so we could do it quickly. And they called and they said the craziest story. He said, Wayne, we have a sex offender in our church, which honestly, that conversation I've had with a 100 churches, but the rest of the conversation went in a completely different direction.

Wayne Walker: 42:56

Hey, Wayne. We have a sex offender in our church. We wanna know how to minister to him well. We don't wanna just kick him to the streets Mhmm. Because we recognize that not many churches are gonna welcome him.

Wayne Walker: 43:07

Yeah. And we wanna know with healthy boundaries how we, as the men of the church, can walk beside him and what what should we do? It's interesting because I have you know, in this space and doing this for so long, I know people with every criminal background, the the nightmare kind of horror stuff. Right? Including those that have committed sexual offenses.

Wayne Walker: 43:29

And, yes, those are horrible crimes. And, yes, Jesus is an amazing redeemer. And to watch a church say, hey, how can we minister to this guy? Yep. And, you know, creating a plan with that church on 1 on 1 and even multiple on 1 discipleship with this man.

Wayne Walker: 43:48

Some inside the church, some outside the church, and some supervised locations he can go and things he can do and things he can't do. But being able to say, hey, this church really wanted to welcome this guy, and they wanted input from a partner organization to figure out, tell us how we can minister well to him

Zac Whitley: 44:05

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 44:05

Which is completely different.

Zac Whitley: 44:07

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 44:07

Right? I know churches in town. Again, I won't mention names. I had a I had a the guy I knew, a homeless guy who was a sex offender, and he went through the entire membership process of a church. It was, like, 12 weeks long.

Wayne Walker: 44:22

And on 12th week, they're supposed to show up at church, and all the new members are announced at the front of the church with the pastor, and everybody comes down and shakes their hand, you know, kind of a scenario. That day, they're all supposed to show up early and go in the front, get ready. And he shows up shows up at the church, and the churches surrounds him with security guards and says, we know who you are. We know what you did. You can't ever come back here again.

Wayne Walker: 44:47

If you ever step foot on our property, we're gonna write you a ticket, which I understand we have to have healthy boundaries. You know, laws are laws. And when they're broken, it's it's important that we understand how to how to be judicious and keep people safe and protected. And we have a leper that needs to be ministered to who's been kicked out of the community. And we have to find a way how to be the hands and feet of Christ even in an awkward scenario.

Wayne Walker: 45:15

And it's fun to see churches on the flip side of trying to figure out how to minister to people and not just how to push them off.

Zac Whitley: 45:22

Yeah. You want someone, whether it's here at the church, to feel home. Yeah. You had a guest that said it really well. I hope his name's Obi, and it was about showing unconditional love, to anyone that has any number of strikes, because if we have a a strikeout system in place at our church or at our nonprofit organization.

Zac Whitley: 45:45

Where where is someone gonna feel at home?

Wayne Walker: 45:47

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley: 45:47

And where are they gonna find that hope? And where are they gonna be able to trust that they can come back to for safety or know that they're forgiven? Where are they gonna get that sense, that beautiful mirror image of their creator

Wayne Walker: 46:02

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley: 46:02

If the church or our calling can offer that?

Wayne Walker: 46:06

So as we kinda wrap up here, what what are some ways that a nonprofit could start the journey of becoming a good, partner with the church? And I know we've gone over those, but how would you summarize it? Or or, you know, what are some ways that they, some steps they could take to look for a church that could partner with them?

Zac Whitley: 46:34

Yeah. Yeah. So we covered being on mission together, finding your sweet spot of partnership for your strengths, the biblical commands, community needs, and then mobilizing volunteers for mutually impactful discipleship opportunities. And so I would say, like, lead with mission. Give give the church, give partnership, a place in in doing that work together first.

Zac Whitley: 47:01

Like, it's so influential and so formative to know where the church is already serving so I can be a faithful steward to resources. And so just tell the story. Paint the picture of not only how your mission aligns, but how you're coming alongside the church to be on mission together. And then find that sweet spot. Find unique ways, make specific asks of your partners, of your churches on ways that they can help bear more fruit, and make your mission more effective.

Wayne Walker: 47:37

Mhmm.

Zac Whitley: 47:37

Just work out of that sweet spot. And then lastly, I think find the meaningful and the right size opportunities to plug people into. And so we all have very busy schedules and have a lot of events that are competing competing for time, competing for values. And so, I'm not just talking about someone's user experience, but find meaningful ways where they get to see the mission in action and they know they're a part of it and they get to see the gospel at work, to just set that hook, to use a good fishing metaphor, to just bring them back. Make it make it worth my time to come and serve, to use my strengths, to share the gospel, and to see the fullness of that picture of of God at work.

Zac Whitley: 48:29

That's gonna break down walls in me. That's gonna break down walls in my place of service and who I'm serving, that I don't know why why someone wouldn't wanna come back, that they find their purpose and their place of where they get to invest their time that way.

Wayne Walker: 48:44

Something that was interesting when we first started partnering with Watermark is the church approached us because members were already serving with us.

Zac Whitley: 48:55

Yeah.

Wayne Walker: 48:56

And it's kind of opposite for us to knock on a door or a church and say, hey. Would you you don't know who we are. Would you would you come? And I I think there's times when we've done that, but this was really unique because, you know, when Watermark leadership came to us and said, hey. We've got some people serving here.

Wayne Walker: 49:13

We wanna know more about it. Mhmm. And then Watermark actually appointed some of their members that were already serving with us to kind of be the champion of our calling at our church and the liaison. And, you know, to me, that's just a beautiful relationship that actually didn't come from the top down, didn't come from the leaders of 2 organizations getting together and figuring this out. It came from the bottom up.

Wayne Walker: 49:37

Yeah. People in the body serving together with our neighbors experiencing homelessness, and it opened doors to bring a church and a nonprofit together in a beautiful relationship.

Zac Whitley: 49:49

Yeah. If you can if you can inspire and invite someone, right, if you can do both of those things, I think you've got a greater opportunity for them to say yes and come and serve. And there's no better person than the the church member, than the person that's already here serving to be that megaphone, to be the inspiration and the invitation, to have them tell their story. No one knows who Zac is, but if someone who is serving here faithfully, consistently gets to tell their story and share that, not just in a hollow invitation and not just a story without a call to action, but pairing invitation and inspiration, I think that's a catalyst to so many people saying yes.

Wayne Walker: 50:30

So church members that are already serving at a nonprofit to go to their church leadership and say, hey. Let me tell you about this place I'm serving. Yeah. And let me tell you what I've watched the Lord do in my life by being a part of this.

Zac Whitley: 50:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Wayne Walker: 50:43

Well, thanks for coming. Appreciate your time.

Zac Whitley: 50:45

Thanks for having me.

Wayne Walker: 50:46

Relationship with Alarmart, man. Thanks.