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Own Your Education™ is a weekly conversation for families doing education their own way. Education is more than schooling—it's a holistic lifestyle of freedom. Join us for real stories from brave parents building education that fits with their lives and their values.
OYE_Ep5
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Ryan Clem: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Owner Education Podcast. This is part two of our conversation with William Durant, who is a father of seven and the founder of a classical school. If you haven't listened to last week's episode, be sure to go back and catch that one before diving into this one.
Homeschooling and Common Arts
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Ryan Clem: you had mentioned something about how, what you created in JP two, you wanted to model the intimacy and the intentionality of homeschooling.
Yeah. And you know, some of these more common art sounds like just that, right?
William Durrant: Yes, yes. Something that you could go with your kiddo around your dining room table or in your kitchen, you know, island and, and [00:01:00] do with your own kids. You could absolutely do this, right? Mm-hmm. And it sparks that.
Student Engagement and Family Impact
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William Durrant: So like, one of those testimony stories is they were doing some sourdough and I had a fourth grader go home and tell his mom, like, he's super into sourdough starters.
And the science behind a sourdough, like is so, oh, it's a science experiment.
Ryan Clem: You have to like, feed it, right? Yes,
William Durrant: yes. And get rid of the discard. And that's what the, that's what we eat, right? And it's so unique. And so having a fourth grader go home and tell their parent, yeah, that's what I want. Or that same fourth grader just excelling in mathematics and presenting him.
You know, some Euclid geometry with a protractor and making stained glass artwork with the protractor. Like, it's just amazing to see that engagement. Yeah. 'cause they're given that freedom to do that. So it is that intentionality of what a homeschool would be
Ryan Clem: uhhuh, you know, that we
William Durrant: want, even from our own classrooms.
And a really
Traditional Values and Project-Based Learning
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Ryan Clem: traditional homeschool too, like traditional values and project based learning, right?
William Durrant: Yes, yes. Yes. Very much so.
Ryan Clem: Yeah. And I'm curious, the families you mentioned you have 39 families currently. Yes. When you [00:02:00] started, you had
Growth and Family Dynamics
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Producer: 16.
Ryan Clem: 16. So probably as you guys have grown, would you say there are families who are coming to you saying, okay, we're, we're not living this way.
Or maybe we we're not as holistic in our home life, but we want to be, and the kids are kind of almost evangelizing to the parents. Like, let me show you how to make a candle.
William Durrant: Yes, yes, yes. Maybe not to the extent of like. Because a lot of those things take a lot of part pieces and parts and mm-hmm.
Families just don't always have that. Sure. They do in a, in a way that I can They're resourcefulness I can remember. Yes. When we first did leather work, you know, they were making pocket knife pouches and, and rosary pouches. And one of the moms come and saying, thanks, I have to go to the leather shop now because they're wanting to do leather work at home.
Yeah. And that being a part of, yeah. That evangelizing to these kind of traditional hands-on activities. Yeah. Right. And I can think of several of the kids that. Take home a quite a bit of those vegetable plants that they grow themselves and have their own garden. Yeah.
Ryan Clem: Wow. [00:03:00] And the
William Durrant: moms are like, well, what do we do with this?
And the kids are telling them, this is what we do. Well,
Ryan Clem: I know what to do.
William Durrant: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Hands-On Learning and Perseverance
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William Durrant: And just this year, one of the third graders, they do a cooking unit, you know, cooking omelets. Mm. Or cooking pasta. Mm-hmm. And that student went home, he made dinner for their family that night. Wow. From what they, he learned in, in common arts class that very day.
And he was so excited about it. And it was delicious. Right. Yeah. And so they do go home and share that. And I'll also share, like, some of the families come and, and they just say how it's changed their family dynamic or atmosphere to which the things that they used to do, they don't do anymore. Or that they're doing something different.
And that's changed kind of their routine as a family. And for me, you know, that's that model of, you know, we're succeeding as a school. Right? Mm-hmm. A lot of modern schools are like, what are your test scores? ' cause that shows your success. Right. In this case. The quantitative data can serve in a purpose and a way.
But when I hear that qualitative feedback of families learning from the [00:04:00] school and saying, you know, we wouldn't do it any other way. Now this is how, and, and that's that feedback. Like, we are doing what the Lord wants us to do, this is being successful and it's impacting the families.
Ryan Clem: And I would imagine it's really empowering for the child and the family to have this skill where they can create something from nothing. And that's what I love to hear in your words is like, what is the value at the highest level of these common classes, it's not just we're making honey, we're making maple syrup.
Like what are the skills that you are wanting to instill in these young people?
William Durrant: A perfect example of that year two, when they study Greek history we do weaving chain mail. And they're just little links. But it's all pattern, like metal, like mm-hmm. Okay. They're, they're little aluminum rings. Right.
Oh, so like fire, like what A knight armor. Yes. Knight might be made out of chain. Exactly. That's chain mail. Right. Okay. So I integrate it into history of the different civilizations, you know, the Persian chain mail versus the Greek or the Spartan or you know, just all the different types of [00:05:00] chain mail.
Anyways, very difficult to do. They're just doing little bracelets. Mm-hmm. And it's a weaving process of rings and getting the pattern down. And I can remember one of my boys very intellectually smart and gifted hard worker, just overall model student. Right? Mm-hmm. And he struggled with this. He couldn't do it, couldn't do it.
He kept giving up, just throwing it down. Right. Hasn't been presented with like a challenge in his life. ' cause it's, he's very hard, you know, intellect comes very easily to him. Yeah. So for him, he could not just, he couldn't weave this chain mail. Everybody else in class was getting it except for him.
Interesting. Okay. And so what did come out of it? You know, this is a common arts class, so it's again, not practical. We're not putting on chain mail and going out to war. Right. And so what, to answer your question, you know, what are we hoping that they come out of this? Well, for him, the perseverance. ' cause he eventually got it.
Producer: Yeah. And then he
William Durrant: went on to get the harder one and then he ended up doing all of them ahead of everybody else. If we just let him give up when something was hard, he wouldn't have ever had that joy of [00:06:00] that achievement.
Ryan Clem: Right.
William Durrant: And then sharing that, helping other students in the class with it.
Ryan Clem: Yeah.
William Durrant: So some common arts, some kids don't like the things that we do 'cause it's hard or it's just not their thing.
You know, the boys, when we make them sew, it's not their thing. Right. But it's good for them. I
Ryan Clem: feel a little So-so about it. Yeah.
William Durrant: A little. So-so,
Ryan Clem: so it's my dad joke day. Yeah. There you go.
William Durrant: There you go. It. It offers more than just creating of an object. Right? Yeah. They learn what they do, like what passions they have, they learn what their passions are.
Yeah. And that's okay. Because as a community as a whole, you know, it's not that everybody has their own chickens and has their own eggs. We were kind of talking about this, right? Mm-hmm. It's in a community, how we lean on each other. So this person may have chicken eggs, this person may have a cow and milk this person.
I have the sourdough. You have the sourdough, and how I have the chain meal. How do we help serve each other? Yeah. In the things that we do have and the gifts that we have. Mm-hmm. So that's the common arts, right, is you're not gonna have the kiddo that loves everything we do. Mm-hmm. But [00:07:00] someone's gonna love something and they may go on in life and continue to do that.
And then how do they turn around and help the, the community? Mm-hmm. And so when you start instilling these things in the kids, it's just like that whole idea of modeling, you know? Mm-hmm. That modeling of perseverance of beauty, of what is beauty? ' cause beauty can be distorted. Right? What is truth that these arts help define that?
That brings it out in them, and we have to continue to give them those opportunities.
Ryan Clem: Wow. That's really well said. And I, I would imagine too, I mean, from everything I've heard from you based on how your family lives and what you're modeling at JP two, it's this return to traditional living. And if we think about the times of, let's just take Mom Paw from Little House in the Prairie, like they didn't have an option to give up.
Right. And I would imagine that's also kind of the lesson mm-hmm. Too is like mm-hmm. That perseverance factor. And if, if you don't get it right the first time, well keep trying until you do. Right?
William Durrant: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. And it's the same thing, like, you don't like what somebody said or you don't [00:08:00] like, you know, if it's on our device and, oh, I don't like that, I'm just gonna sweep past it, right?
Mm-hmm. It's, we're in that continual hamster wheel of if we don't like it, we just move, move on. Well. What if we don't have a choice? Mm-hmm. Like you said, and they didn't have a choice. They had to do these things. Mm-hmm. And so what did they learn from that? That
Ryan Clem: perseverance. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And was this, would you say kind of also, you know, your philosophy about kind of these hands-on activities and approaches and the common arts.
Founding a Classical School
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Ryan Clem: I know that's just a piece of, of the larger puzzle, but was that also a catalyst when you were saying, here's the parent I want to be, here's the father I want to be, and I want my kids to go to a school like that and it doesn't exist. Like was that kind of your Yeah. Yeah. What was like your aha moment?
And I was like, all right, I'm, I'm doing this. I'm, I'm gonna be a co-founder and in starting a school
William Durrant: Yeah. That and that, that's exactly it. Like, there was a school it had recently closed down that had kind of these common arts things that, you know, our first year, our three common arts teachers went and visited just to, we are modeling off [00:09:00] of something that has been done, but it's not currently being done anymore.
Right. That's all geared towards. The STEM activities, which is a portion of the truth. Like those are good things. They are hands-on things. But it's, they should point back to the truth of, of creation in itself. Right. And so when we see just the opportunity to do common arts, it was part of me like, don't let the bull tie the bow tie fool you.
I love classical literature. I love to read, I love to learn myself always continuing and mm-hmm. And modeling that for kids. Like, I still continue to learn things every day, and I don't know all the answers, but we're gonna only continue to learn 'em Yeah. In terms of class. Yeah. But same thing with figuring out how to fix a dryer that I feel like I have to fix every other week, you know of can I do this for myself mm-hmm.
For my family, or do I have to pay someone else to do it,
Ryan Clem: right? Mm-hmm.
William Durrant: Or and that's
Ryan Clem: something that stays with you for life.
William Durrant: It does. It should. It should. Exactly. And so. It, it's just offering the [00:10:00] opportunity to form students with an understanding. Like you can continue to learn, even if it's not your thing.
Mm-hmm. You can continue to learn these things and it will stick with you. Mm-hmm. And so it was part when we started, you know, the common arts has been part of our founding. And again, what set us apart and every year we get better and better at implementing it. And the more outside time we can get with kids, especially in the afternoons like I talked about mm-hmm.
The better it off, it's, it's for the kids. Mm-hmm. So taking the middle school kids into the greenhouse and having them take their shoes off and their socks off and getting and the dirt. Yeah. And take care of
Ryan Clem: grounding.
William Durrant: It is very grounding. That's what we do. Right. And. Now, a lot of times when that happens, our radishes don't make it outta the greenhouse and the peas don't make it outta the greenhouse.
They eat 'em all. There's some sampling happening. Yeah. There's quite a bit of sampling. Yeah. But it's good sampling, right? Yeah. It's that hopefully as they grow up, they wanna do this in their own home. Yeah. Right.
Producer: Yeah.
William Durrant: So it has been a part of this from the beginning and for me, very hands-on.
And that's kind of reflecting back, you know, how best do I learn? 'cause that's how best I'm gonna [00:11:00] teach. And I learn, I, I learn by doing. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of kids do learn by doing. Mm-hmm. Some kids can read it and they've got it. Mm-hmm. Some kids can hear it and they've got it. Mm-hmm. And so it is in a classroom of 20 kids.
Each kiddo learns a little bit differently. Yeah. And many of 'em do need that hands-on application to see it come together. Yeah. And that's that missing piece of modern education of now let's do it. We just read this book about him tanning hides. Let's tan a hide and see what it's like. Yeah. Because it's hard work.
Ryan Clem: Yeah.
Classical vs. Modern Education
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Ryan Clem: And I know that you have a background as an educator starting when you were just 16 years old working in a daycare. And I know you got your bachelor's and your master's in education and, and you've taught in traditional schools, you've taught in, you know, faith-based schools, public schools. Can you talk a little bit about maybe differences you saw from some of your past experiences and, and to now?
I think that hands-on kind of project based approach mm-hmm. You feel is essential. Yeah. Right. For learning. How would you say, like [00:12:00] you came to have that opinion?
William Durrant: Yeah. Just through my own learning and formation of. Okay. So I started the 16-year-old working in a daycare. Mm-hmm. You know, in small town.
And I loved working with kids. From that point on, I was a farm boy. So I, I go work on the farm during the summer, harvest wheat. You know, I, I value hard work in a, in a good day's work. Mm-hmm. Especially having my own boys grow now and they wanna come with me to do all these side jobs that I may do, and that's a big part of it.
Right. And then went into education as my undergraduate and received my master's in education as well. So education is, I've been very passionate about, but what I felt lacking in is that educational model that I received through all of my graduate and undergraduate studies was all very modern, progressive education.
I had no idea there were other options. I didn't even know what classical education was leaving. Even teaching my first five years, I didn't know what classical education was. Mm-hmm. Because it was all very. Geared towards just that progressive model. If you have your class [00:13:00] subject, class subject, it's very segmented just separate from one another.
And so what makes classical education a little bit different? You know, modern education will say, we want to hit all these things. All these say standards, right? Objectives. Mm-hmm. And the whole course of the year, because there's so many of them, you can only go so deep surface level. Whereas classical education, you know, we're only gonna hit three or four good books, but we're gonna go deep, we're gonna make meaning of it, right?
Mm-hmm. And so under my own education, finally being exposed to and, and honestly is being exposed to during the creation of JP two, you know, I have a background in history, and so it speaks to humanity. So I have elements of it. I have truths in it, and there are truths to it in modern education as well.
Little kernels here and there. Like, oh, they may read still a classical book. That's great, you know? Mm-hmm. But what I was lacking was just the depth. Hmm. And so, as I have, as an administrator, learned myself because I'm teaching my teachers, what does it mean to teach [00:14:00] classically? Well, instead of putting students will be able to up on the board, which was the past five, or you know, maybe 10 years ago.
You know, or our objective of the lesson is X, y, z up on the board. You're telling the kids the, the punchline or the joke before you tell the joke. It's all up on the board. Right? Yeah.
Producer: I always hate that.
William Durrant: And rather than allowing the kids to find it out for themselves, that's that self-exploration, right?
Of presenting a material that allows the kids to go into it, rather than me standing and lecturing and telling them X, Y, and Z. They're going to discover X, Y, and Z. And it's through that process of discovery that they retain it, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so for me, in my own education, that's changed, right?
Five years ago, that's not where I was at. And now that where I'm at, it's like I can't go back. I wouldn't be able to go back into a traditional educational classroom partly because, you know, I've embraced it and like, oh, there are other educational philosophists out there. Char Mason, Maria Montessori.
I mean, these [00:15:00] are in contrast to say John Dewey's philosophy of education. Mm-hmm. So in discovering, and it was again, through like this homeschool lens, because what many homeschool families kind of model uhhuh of that exploration, that wonder that freedom in environment and freedom of a lesson not be so restrained from having to stick to the daily lesson schedule.
Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. That's something for myself that I've grown to really embrace. And these other philosophies of education that I bring back to my staff as I learn and grow. And then we learn and grow together of how do we implement this. Mm-hmm. And then to see the beauty of a, of a child reciting, you know, a 10 stands up poem.
And why do we do that? Well, at their age they can do it one, and if we work that muscle, they'll continue to be able to do it. And then we give them good literature in terms of to recite, so then they know what good speaking is. If we give them crummy words [00:16:00] to read modern language, that's all they're gonna know.
And that's all they're gonna speak. But we give them, give them Shakespeare. Yes. At a sixth grade, reading sixth grade Shakespeare. 'cause then they know what good language is, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So di it was far vastly different than what I experienced in the different models. You know, being in public school, being in private school, very progressive education.
To where I am now. Mm-hmm. To see there can be a beauty to educating. There is a balance of, like I mentioned earlier, that sitting behind a desk mm-hmm. And taking time to make good penmanship, right? Mm-hmm. Cursive to, okay, we need some outdoor time. What does that look like? There is a balance, right?
Mm-hmm. And I wouldn't say we're always perfect at anything we do, right? It's we're learning. Yeah. That's why I said five years ago I wasn't here. Right? Yeah. I wasn't in this kind of thinking of education for my own children and the children of families that are very like-minded. But once you give them that little bit of love and beauty to what school can be about, then they come to love to come [00:17:00] to school.
Rather than kicking and screaming to go to school right now, I still have one that does that. So. Well, you
Ryan Clem: know, we're all humans. Yes. So, yeah.
Technology in Education
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Ryan Clem: And I know that JP two is also unique in that there are no computers. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that's part of probably this classical approach and traditional approach.
And when parents are kind of, they're probably coming to you knowing a bit about what you're about, but do parents ever say, well, gosh, like no computers, how will they be prepared for their adulthood?
William Durrant: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't have parents coming because we know, they know we don't do computers.
Producer: Yeah.
William Durrant: But I have heard feedback from parents that that's the first thing that they're asked from just community members, whether that's at their parish or church level, uhhuh of how are they gonna be prepared?
Producer: Yeah.
William Durrant: It's like. I was prepared and we had very limited technology when I was in school.
Right. And if we are training them to read, well speak well, to learn how to do something well, they can pick up a computer and learn to use it [00:18:00] well. Mm-hmm. But it's setting those boundaries of what age range should have a computer versus shouldn't have a computer. Right. Yeah. And so, you know, up to our eighth graders, this is the first thing, you know, we, we've talked about integrating some very basic computer applications over a summer period to help foster computer skills, which is what it used to be,
Producer: right?
Computer literacy. Yeah.
William Durrant: But I'm also not opposed to bringing in typewriters. Let's teach you how to type with a typewriter.
Ryan Clem: Oh man. I don't think I, I've never done that. And like, actually, you know, other than just like chicken pecking, right?
William Durrant: I mean, talk about make sure you have your spelling correct before you type it or you have to retype the whole thing.
So, yeah. But we don't use technology because we don't. Need, need to use it. Mm-hmm. Right. Everything you have, we can find a book, something tangible again, touching. Mm-hmm. How do we learn as humans? Well, we learn through our senses, so we should be able to touch it. The smelling of the pages, the reading, and an imagination of what can come out of those words.
Mm-hmm. It's not the same as reading off of a screen. Right. Yeah. And so, especially [00:19:00] with their development, you know, we talked about developmental things in terms of overuse technology. Mm-hmm. All, all of those things that can be more detriment than positive. And so at JP two, we, we really, we take, we deemphasize these technology.
Now that doesn't mean, again, like I don't have a phone, I have a phone. I have to use a phone. That's the nature of my position. Mm-hmm. Teachers record their grades. You can't live under a rock. Right. I know. I can't live under a rock. Teachers record their grades, you know, they use their computers. They may pull out the projector on the cart.
Yeah. You know, if you think about it, for us it was probably the TV on the cart that would come to classrooms in grade school. Right. In this case, it's a projector on the cart. You know, I just put up Washington crossing the Delaware and the virtues of Washington as we read his address to Congress about his presidency.
Right. So we're connecting literature with the visual of a beautiful piece of artwork. Mm-hmm. And then also the things that weren't correct in terms of that artwork. Right. And so teaching them don't always take it for truth. You have to explore and, question and grow out of it.
Ryan Clem: Mm.
William Durrant: And so,
Ryan Clem: so how did that look with the picture of Washington?
William Durrant: Mm.
Ryan Clem: [00:20:00] Like what things weren't accurate? I'm, I'm curious. Okay.
William Durrant: So crossing the Delaware, I can't, the
Ryan Clem: famous photo of him. The famous photo of him.
William Durrant: Yes. Famous photo of him, which I
Ryan Clem: saw in person last summer at the Met.
William Durrant: Yes. So it's beautiful. The timeline's huge. It's huge. So he's crossing at Christmas Eve, right?
Uhhuh. And there's ice in the water. Well, that time of year, they wouldn't have been ice in the water yet
Ryan Clem: What time of year? It was Christmas. That was December.
William Durrant: So there would be, it would be a solid sheet.
Artistic License in Historical Representation
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William Durrant: Oh. You know, so it, or the solid sheet would come with February time period, something like that.
Mm-hmm. So there, there was just very small details, but it adds to the emphasis of the struggles across. The other piece of it, it was, it was a snowstorm going on when they crossed, so there wouldn't actually been any visibility. But how do you paint that? Right. You know? Right. So you have to, you have to, as an artist, and that's what we talk about, take creative license, Uhhuh, what is too far, what is accurate, even with movies or comparison to books that we read.
Oh yeah. You know, there is a sort of creative license that mm-hmm. You give the [00:21:00] author, you know, the ability to do so. So those were the two examples that we used. But as a beautiful painting, that's, that's a great discussion. Sense of it. It represented, you know, the African American slave that was on the ship.
There was the Irish man that was on the boat with Washington. Mm-hmm. So it represented America as not just one singular white man, right. Mm-hmm. But a whole. Conglomeration of uniquely different people that come together for the common purpose mm-hmm. Of crossing this Delaware Christmas Eve to Wow.
Surprise attack. Right. Yeah. So virtues. So,
Ryan Clem: yeah. I love that though. It's like, how much of this, is art and that creative license and when does it get into a territory of truth bending? Correct. Oh, correct.
William Durrant: And so that's a, that's a skill to be taught and learned, right. Of, in our day and age, we just take everything we hear as a, as truth, and it's like we have to question that.
We have to question everything, right?
Producer: Yeah.
William Durrant: Not that we disbelieve it, but we should question it because at what point does it become. Not accurate.
Ryan Clem: Mm-hmm.
William Durrant: Mm-hmm.
The Role of Technology in Education
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Ryan Clem: Especially with ai. [00:22:00] Right.
William Durrant: So all the more reason to really give attention to the learning process mm-hmm. And to distinguish what is truth. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so that's why we start with books.
Right. And what is real tangible in front of us. Like I mentioned earlier, beginning to end in creating 'cause even computers can take the place of some of that hard work. They make our work a lot easier this day and age. Right. So there does come a point where, okay, we do need to learn this skill mm-hmm.
In order to move forward. But that's going back to that kind of biggest myth that we get asked of. How would they be prepared if they're not learning to use a computer? They will be prepared.
Ryan Clem: Yeah. Well, and everything you've talked about is like kind of this mindset of I'm gonna figure it out.
Right? And if you can learn to figure out how to leather work, you probably can figure out how to open Microsoft Word. I would imagine. I
William Durrant: would imagine as well.
Classical Education: Philosophy and Approach
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Ryan Clem: you know, obviously I think families are coming to you because they're attracted to this model, and [00:23:00] there's only one of you of your kind, at least in the city we both live in.
For parents who are listening to this saying, gosh, like classical education sounds really interesting, like, I'd like to explore this further. What are some ways they. They could do that.
William Durrant: Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Clem: Maybe using a computer would be involved.
William Durrant: It probably would be, yes. Yes, it would. I mean, a lot of, okay, so first off, the families that are coming to us, one of the things when I take families on tours, I, I really talk about our, our process of enrolling new families.
And I share this like the culture of the family will have an impact on the culture of the school and the culture of the school will have an impact on the culture of the family.
Ryan Clem: Mm-hmm. So two-way street.
William Durrant: Two-way street. Mm-hmm. Like we, we give an intake from each other all the time, and so we have to be intentional about, so they know when they're coming to me.
We don't do technology. We downplay the role of technology in the home. I encourage families that have a ca or up to an eighth grader, they don't need a cell phone through eighth grade when they start driving, is a good time probably. Mm-hmm. To [00:24:00] integrate that. Even then a dumb phone is probably the best option.
Mm-hmm. Again, more positives than negatives. Mm-hmm. And so families are coming knowing that, that they want that, that that is us. And so they are wanting that. Mm-hmm. If they hear, like, every now and then I'll get a call from somebody outta town. They're moving to town. They found our website by just looking up classical education.
Mm-hmm. Because they have had an exposure to either a homeschool or homeschool co-op or classical school themselves. So they're looking for that same feel of, of material that impacts the culture, right? Mm-hmm. And so they'll call, and I have phone calls with them and that's where I share all about us.
And so for families that are foreign to it, I mean, that's the first thing to do is to understanding is sometimes just by exploring what other. Avenues or classical avenues there are. Mm-hmm. And if you wanna understand what they are, I always share through the organization called Classical U. They have published material a parent's guide that I gave to all of our parents the first year of what is a classical education.
So it outlines those three grammar rhetoric and logic stage into the quadrivium and [00:25:00] why we teach Latin at school, starting in first grade. And and so finding those resources. But the best way, like even when we started, it's like, I don't know how to describe classical education, is just by coming and visiting to seeing, you know, if you have kiddos that go to a pug school or private school I hope that you would see a distinct difference in our classroom settings by the feel and the atmosphere of the kids in the hallway.
Right. And simply coming and seeing is the best way to really get that exposure. Here in Wichita, classical school, Wichita, I take my teachers there, they've been established for several more years than we have. Mm-hmm. And they're growing community. I took them, my teachers to go see, let's see how they're doing it.
Yeah. And then, you know, I took my teachers down to Holy Child in New Mexico, another classical school that we model off of to see Right. To be in person to ask the questions. And that's why
Ryan Clem: use your senses. Exactly.
William Durrant: So there is a point like, I'm gonna Google it first, I'm gonna get a quick answer, and that may be exactly what I was looking for.
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Clem: That's great.
William Durrant: It's for us, or it's not for us. [00:26:00] Mm-hmm. We'd be like, well, I still have questions then come see. Yeah. Come see.
Integrating Classical Education into Modern Life
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Ryan Clem: Would you say some of the families that are enrolled now have, have, they come from more traditional environments that are vastly different? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
William Durrant: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
A good portion of the school, especially from its founding you know, probably a third of it came from homeschool. A third of it came from classical parochial schools. Okay. Catholic parochial schools. And the other third of it came from public schools. Mm-hmm. So it was a very nice mixture of exposure to wherever they had for education.
But they do recognize there's a difference when they come to us. Mm-hmm. And for new families, I tell them, depending on how old your kiddos are that it takes a little while to almost dewire their brain from what they had mm-hmm. Especially public school setting.
Producer: Yeah.
William Durrant: Into a much slower pace of education, but a deeper pace of it, right.
Mm-hmm. Of, of kind of what I talked about earlier. And it takes a good semester to, to really [00:27:00] feel like you're understanding the level of questioning and the questions that I'm asking. It's a lot of questions. Mm-hmm. Because it's continual question asking, right? Mm-hmm. And so. It just depends on, you know, where the parents have come from.
But they've all come from a little bit different background. And some of 'em have told me like they've come as like, you know, if if things don't go well here, there's no returning to where we came from. We would homeschool before we go back to where they came from.
Producer: Okay.
William Durrant: Which is a, a great testimony to the impact that the school had on their own family and their, their own understanding of education too.
'cause the hard thing for all of us is that saying like, well, I had it this way and I turned out okay. Right. But what if I had it that way? What would I have turned out to be like? Right.
Ryan Clem: Yeah. I'm not
William Durrant: saying I turned out wrong. Right, right, right.
Ryan Clem: It's more of like an opportunity based mindset. It
William Durrant: is. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. What more could I be giving of myself or what more could I be doing or
Ryan Clem: Yeah. It,
William Durrant: it is more of that, that separate mindset of opportunity.
Practical Steps for Parents Interested in Classical Education
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Ryan Clem: So my [00:28:00] last question for you, and I think this has been a really eye-opening discussion in terms of not only J two, but just the classical approach and a return to traditional living for parents who are listening who think, gosh, I'm, this is maybe so different from how we're living our lives now, but I'm really intrigued by it.
Mm-hmm. What would your advice be to those parents? What initial steps could they take other than just Googling Right. But like Right, right. Maybe opening their minds and their hearts, to a different approach.
William Durrant: Right. There's a lot of good. Foundational education books. Okay. Right. And one of 'em I did with my staff and it was rethinking the foundations of education.
There are a lot of good books that are written that are questioning modern education versus this very classical, traditional educational approach that I would say has formed myself and my staff to have a better understanding. And I'm still growing in it. Like I still growing in it. Yeah. Right. That, that, that [00:29:00] instead of just Googling it to find, and they're not very long.
That's what's nice about 'em, you know, for someone who's new to it that they might find, it speaks to them in some way, you know? Beauty for truth's sake is another one that shapes more than just the education in the brick and mortar school, but the education of the family. Yeah. And so there's a lot of very good modern, I'd say modern books, relatively newer books that are written that are describing exactly what we're seeing in education as a.
And as an option to do the, to the opposite, right? Mm-hmm. And even I'm a big follower of a gentleman named John Sr. Who had an integrated humanities program at KU back in the seventies with two other individuals. And they started their journey of, again, exposing your kids to something real. So my first suggestion would be, to turn the TV off and read a story, right?
Read a book and then go outside when you're maybe camping as a family and just look at the stars or, you know, you have a little cheat sheet in front of you about what [00:30:00] each constellation is and the story. 'cause your kids are gonna remember the stories better than you and I Yeah. Kids have that ability to memorize.
I they have like elephant memories. They do. And so just those little bits of beauty in the home life, right, will begin to shape the way in which you view your parenting, in which you view the education that your children may be receiving. And those are just very couple simple things that you can do in your home.
Right? Mm-hmm. Of that might get you to think, okay, now I'm ready for that bigger book. Right. Or maybe I, a good book, I'm ready to reach out to different classical schools or those, problem-based schools mm-hmm. Of, of hands-on learning, right? Mm-hmm. Now, I'm a big proponent of, classical Christian education.
And there are plenty. There are a lot of classical Christian schools and they're all similar in the way in which they use their curriculum, right? So if you're in an area that maybe doesn't have that, there are also. Online schools, and this is coming from someone who doesn't use technology much, right.[00:31:00]
But there are commu home homeschool communities and homeschool blogs that give their perspective of homeschool mom and what they do to bring in beauty into their home. Mm-hmm. And again, always goes back to reading, but even a book called Theology of the Home, how do you set up your home and intentional about the things that you put in it?
Hmm. Those are all just very quick resources that come to the top of my head of a, mm-hmm. Of what would I encourage? And again, maybe shutting the, TV off for an evening and reading to your children and seeing how they respond. Yeah. Something very easily.
Ryan Clem: Yeah. Well, and that's what I'm, I mean, I've learned a lot throughout our discussion and it's been very inspiring for me personally as well. And I think it's like, it's not too late. If you wanna do some things differently or you do wanna turn the TV off, or Uhhuh put away the phones, right?
Uhhuh,
William Durrant: Uhhuh, you know, we have a, pair of board members on our board that they, as parents, they have kids probably maybe a little bit younger than I am adult children that they did parent this particular way and they all had phones and they took a [00:32:00] step back as parents, like, what are we doing?
And they changed their parenting for the younger four and didn't have phones for 'em. Downplayed the role of the tv, right? Mm-hmm. And those adult children are coming back. There's two different relationships there. And I can't speak to this wholeheartedly. They gave this testimony to our parent night.
Right. And so I can't speak to it justly like they speak to it 'cause it's their personal counter. But they discuss the impacts of the younger children and how thankful they were of their parents, of making that last minute change of how difficult it was for them to do that. But also the impact it's had on them.
And again, I can't share that wholeheartedly because that's their story to share. Mm-hmm. But they share that with parents, you know, it's never too late to make a change in our parenting. 'cause as I said, none of us are perfect parents.
Ryan Clem: And that's not the goal either. That is
William Durrant: not the goal.
Yeah. That's not the goal. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And for us, just to even consider that as parents, like what are we doing? Are we being intentional about it, of stopping and thinking about that? Maybe that's all we [00:33:00] need to do, right? Mm-hmm. And, and the rest, we leave in God's hands of, Lord, help us make the good decisions for the sake of the children, which you bestowed upon us that these are your kids and you've given to us to oversee.
Help me have the strength to do that. Yeah. The courage to do that. Help me do it correctly. You know, gimme some
Ryan Clem: perseverance. Exactly. Yeah.
Final Thoughts and Reflections
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Ryan Clem: Well, thank you so much for all of your insights. I think this conversation has been really informative and hopefully we'll give parents a lot to think about. It's given me a lot to think about.
And I'll hit you with a Latin phrase, tempes. Fut. Okay. Time flies. Time flies.
William Durrant: Yes, it does. Yeah.
Ryan Clem: But thank you so much.
William Durrant: Thank you. It's been, thank you for having me. It's been
Ryan Clem: awesome.
[00:34:00]