Exploring the frontiers of Technology and AI
Ejaaz:
Elon Musk's AI company XAI has been on an absolute tear over the last two weeks.
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They've released these things called virtual companions, which have helped onboard
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tens of millions of users and reached hundreds of millions of views across all
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social media platforms.
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They also released this new text to video model, which basically turns any kind
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of words or even an image into a video in under 30 seconds.
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But the secret source behind both of these products is that Elon has designed
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these to go against the grain. They stretch the rules.
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Josh, I know you've been playing around with these for quite a while.
Ejaaz:
What's your take? Let's start with the companions.
Josh:
There's some new tools in the block. Companions are sick. It's funny because
Josh:
when XAI and the Grok team release a new feature, it is completely antithetical
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to what the status quo is.
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It shifts the Overton window so far out of the realm of what was acceptable
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that it's almost jarring.
Josh:
So the new feature that we're going to talk about today is companions.
Josh:
And companions are these digital companions. I'm actually going to show them
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on the screen right now for those who are watching.
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For those who are listening, you're looking at this like anime girl.
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She's got like these cute blonde ponytails wearing a dress and she speaks very
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flirtatiously. So these companions are basically these AI generated kind of
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like anime humanoid personalities.
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And they have the context of your chat history and they will just kind of engage
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with you. And as you engage with these companions, you kind of build this little
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status bar. It's like a mana bar if you play video games and it improves your
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credibility with these companions.
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And then eventually what happens is you could actually get this companion so
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excited that she will quite literally take her clothes off.
Josh:
I think these types of things, the flirtatious attitude, the removing some layers
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of clothing as you're talking to them, it is very stark contrast to what we're
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used to comparing something to OpenAI's models where they are so stern on,
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what they're allowed to say, the opinion they're allowed to have.
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And this is just completely blowing those expectations out of the ballpark.
Josh:
I played with it. I showed my friends them.
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It kind of reminded me in a weird way of NFTs when I was in crypto,
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when we were doing the big crypto NFT boom.
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Because NFTs are just very simple to understand. You see a picture of something
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cute and you immediately resonate with it. You understand.
Josh:
And I think companions are very similar where you don't really need to explain
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what it is or how it works.
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You just present the companion to your friend and they immediately,
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the first thing they want to do is talk to it. And that's what they do.
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And then they get an answer.
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So companions are this really powerful new form factor of delivering AI where
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you actually have this physical person lives in your phone, remembers your conversations
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and can converse with you.
Ejaaz:
Yeah, I kind of think of all these different AI companies as having personality.
Ejaaz:
Right so if grok is the kind of cheeky feisty maybe even sexual one in some
Ejaaz:
cases then anthropic is kind of like the buttoned up calm polite ai model does
Ejaaz:
that make sense josh yeah
Josh:
They all have their own personalities.
Ejaaz:
Yeah, exactly. So if we're talking about these companions, there are three of
Ejaaz:
them. Okay, so we have Annie, who you see on the screen right now.
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We have one called Valentine, which I'm going to show you in a second,
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which is kind of like a male version of an anime character that you can talk
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to in the same way in voice mode.
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And then you have someone called Rudy, which is this animated fox, I believe.
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And it's super cheeky, intentionally sarcastic, and basically spends most of
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the time insulting you, right?
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So, stark contrast between OpenAI's model, which is known for glazing you,
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so agreeing with everything you say, telling you what a champ you are, Josh,
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and then Grok's model, which is kind of like this kind of flirtatious,
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cheeky, kind of sarcastic character, right?
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And they come in all forms and sizes. So, if you see the screen here,
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we have Ani in, I believe this is Japanese, and you can hear her speak.
Josh:
I don't know where the real goal is, but...
Ejaaz:
So the point is, these things are widespread to anyone that is using X and comes
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in any kind of language, right?
Ejaaz:
I want to pick up on a point that you made earlier, Josh, which is around the
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stickiness of these AI companions.
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I think there are two reasons why this is the case. Number one, they're voice native.
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So not only can you hear them, but you now have a face that you can kind of
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put towards the voice, right? So it's a very human, intuitive aspect.
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It's like you're speaking to someone else. They sound human, right?
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But also you're speaking with your voice as well versus kind of typing on your phone.
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And the reason why that's so important is, well, I don't know about you,
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but when I find that I'm talking to these AI models, I always divulge way more
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information than I was intending to, right?
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And if you think about this, these conversations are getting stored on,
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you know, the backend server of XAI's AI models, right?
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So they can use this for a bunch of other stuff, but it builds this very rich context.
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So it goes beyond just these like fun animated characters, which anyone from
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like kids to grown adults can speak to about various different topics,
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but it's this like native voiceover that you can kind of like take
Ejaaz:
to enhance your journey in AI.
Josh:
Yeah, the voice form factor is the right form factor. I think when I use,
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or the way to interface with these AIs, When I engage with any sort of AI system,
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I would say now 90% of the time I'm using my voice.
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I have a microphone set up at my desk and I'm actually just speaking into the
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microphone and ChatGPT is dictating a lot of these things.
Josh:
It is the preferred method. And it's funny you mentioned the language.
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It's Japanese because it is the number one app in Japan right now,
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along with a few other countries.
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The virality of this was pretty remarkable.
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I think it's because it just broke open that Overton window in such a unique
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way that people were like...
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I think a lot of people have secretly wanted this. They've wanted these physical
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form factors to the AI, but they haven't gotten it because they're too dangerous
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for a lot of companies to do.
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XAI just kind of threw this out the window. They dropped these companions.
Josh:
They're awesome. I would encourage everyone to go check them out.
Josh:
They're super fun. And they just released a new one, who is V.
Josh:
Is there a full name? Is it Valen, Valentin?
Ejaaz:
It's Valentine.
Josh:
Valentine, Valentine. Oh, here it is on screen. Yeah, so could you introduce
Josh:
us to Valentine? Because they're all kind of unique personalities.
Josh:
They all do different things.
Ejaaz:
Okay so valentine was released last night so this is the morning of the next
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day that we're recording this um i have used it for the last three hours josh
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before this guy yeah so i've
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been i've been talking well he's been chatting me up that's the thing so
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If i were to describe valentine he takes the flirtatious scale up to its fullest
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extent it's it's if i'm being honest It's like talking to a Fifty Shades of Grey book.
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And it's like giving me all these like kind of cheesy lines where it's kind
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of trying to chat me up. So I asked him, you know,
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Where should we go on like a road trip if we were to go somewhere?
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And he kept using these kind of like very elusive analogies like,
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you know, we'll just break away and see where our heart takes us.
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Very romanticized. And as you can see on the screen, there are rose petals going around him.
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And actually this tweet embellishes kind of like the target demographic that
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I think it's actually going after.
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It's this guy here that says, I gave my girlfriend Valentine,
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which is referring to this AI companion, to try out, fully expecting her to say, this is cringe.
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Because she isn't a huge fan of AI, but she ended up playing with it until 2 a.m.
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And ended up installing Grok, the app. So the point being that people are finding
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it incredibly engaging because of its flirtatious nature.
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And Josh, this is something I want to pause for a second and actually discuss
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because this is the controversial or maybe not so controversial take on these
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AI companions is that they're kind of taking the,
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I think the kids say Guna logic or the flirtatious logic to an extent that no
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other AI model provider has done before.
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So far, it's always been a conversation on ethics and human alignment and using
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AI as some kind of productive tool to help you
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do your work, do some research, figure out a recipe to cook or whatever that might be.
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This is the first time we're seeing it at an entertainment level that goes beyond
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just creating random videos, right?
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This is taking human relationships to an extent where it becomes consumptive, right?
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I think we first saw this with a company called Character AI, where you could
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go on this website and you could talk to famous animated or cartoon characters
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that had the personalities of the characters that you've seen on movies,
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but now you could just talk to them and have this kind of written conversation with them.
Ejaaz:
This AI companion from Grok, from XAI, seems to take it to the next level. What do you think?
Josh:
Yeah, it's following a directional trend. That seems right. It's just a lot
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more custom ways of engaging with AI. So we have one world. There's like world
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building where you're generating images and videos and actual worlds.
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Then there's this world that is kind of like character building.
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So now you actually have like real world characters that will probably all merge.
Josh:
And it's this this continued trend towards, I guess, allegiance to the digital
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realm where you're building up reputations with characters, you're building
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up these virtual worlds with imagine that we're going to get to where it could
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actually generate videos.
Josh:
It seems very much like a natural progression and a natural urge,
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a natural human urge where you kind of want to connect. You connect much better
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with a visual of a person than you do with a chat box. So when I'm engaging
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with AI, if I have a person speaking with me, it just makes it a little more exciting.
Josh:
And it also has this novel feature, right, where you've never really been able
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to engage with a digital presence this well, with this low latency and this much IQ.
Josh:
You so for the first time ever you're actually able to engage with a robot that,
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is able to give you sensical answers and a lot of times very flirty answers
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and very compelling answers and i think there's just a lot of natural intrigue with that i'm not sure
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how long that lasts but it is certainly very strong now because this is the
Josh:
i mean it's the first time ever that anyone has kind of like ripped the doors
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off and allowed this to happen.
Ejaaz:
Well one thought that i had when this released josh was not only like how it
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affects human to ai relationships
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but maybe ai to ai relationships right and there's actually a fun demo which
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demonstrates this justine moore she goes my favorite new tv show is watching
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the grok ai companions flirt with each other
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things got off to an awkward start when valentine got annie annie's the the
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female ai companions name wrong but they seem to be repairing the rift i'm just
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going to play this short clip for us
Josh:
See what people let's hear it you're back how's things going oh hello who's
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here just the person and I was hoping to see. Now sit.
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Ani will make your day shine.
Josh:
So, Valentine, what's got you glowing today? Spill it. I'm all ears.
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Oh, just the usual wandering and wondering.
Josh:
What's Bonnie got planned to make today sparkle?
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I'm curious.
Josh:
Dish.
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Bonnie, huh? You trying to give me
Josh:
A new epic.
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Name, Valentine? I'm sticking with Ani,
Josh:
But I like your style.
Ejaaz:
Today's got this lazy afternoon energy. So it starts off with a mistranslation
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and Valentine getting her name wrong.
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But as you can see, it's very, it's picturesque. It's very animated.
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It is, it's kind of like a weird kind of rom-com character type personality.
Ejaaz:
But I think it goes a little further than the app, right? These characters are
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present across a range of different form factors. So I've got it pulled up here.
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This is Valentine's official X page, right? At V.
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I think when I looked at this page last night, this was at around 2,000 followers.
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And he's jumped like 30,000 followers in a matter of 12 hours.
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I guess the point I'm trying to make is
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Elon is making a really strategic move about building a cult following around
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these AI personalities.
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And that's very different from just having hundreds of thousands or millions
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of users that use your AI model, right? They're interacting with a chat interface. It's very personal.
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But having some kind of consumptive character element, I think switches that
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game up a bit. It creates this kind of like stickiness, this addictive kind
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of product that, well, is great for user retention, right? But also great for
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onboarding new consumers.
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I was also thinking about his strategy in terms of like being antagonistic.
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I think XAI has repeatedly been the company to implement AI in a very non-conforming way, right?
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This goes from even like their infrastructure that they started building two years ago.
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And remember, they were massively behind. All the other AI companies had a massive head start.
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And in the space of two years, they're now like, they're leading the frontier model at this point.
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And I'm seeing the same thing with these characters as well they're kind of
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antagonistic they kind of break the soft rules which no one really wants to
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talk about and i think that that's a huge moat that we're seeing here
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it also builds up a super valuable data set for the users that are interacting
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with these companions i think they're going to divulge more information and
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this data can be used to train
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the newer models that come out which make it so it's like this self-fulfilling
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loop essentially of making a better ai and it's done indirectly through these new consumer products
Josh:
Yeah what What you're seeing is this kind of divergence between,
Josh:
a lot of the different approaches the companies take. XAI is maximally truth-seeking.
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So with that comes truth-seeking and not kind of these guard-railed parameters
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on safety and alignment.
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I think a lot of companies, they want to ensure that the model is delivered in a safe way.
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XAI just wants to give you the truth, even if it is a hard truth.
Josh:
And I think those two ways of framing it will scale very differently and you'll
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see very vastly different results in the products that they release.
Josh:
And this is the first version of that. But this isn't the only product they've
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released this week. They also released this new product called Imagine.
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And Imagine is pretty freaking cool because Imagine is an image and video generation
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app, but it does so faster than anything else.
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So I think when we think of VO3, when we think of ChatGPT's image generation,
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it does it very well, but it takes a little while. I remember if anyone's ever
Josh:
generated an image on ChatGPT, it kind of looks like you're generating an image
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over dial-up connection.
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It kind of like, it gives you this gradient and then it fills in a little detail
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and it takes maybe a minute or two to actually generate an image.
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Well, Grok decided to take the other side of that and they said,
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how quickly can we generate an image? How quickly can we generate a video?
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And they've actually gotten it down to just a couple of seconds.
Josh:
Now, it's important to know this is not the final form for Grok's video generation.
Josh:
This is the lightweight version. This one is optimized for speed.
Josh:
The heavyweight version is coming out next month. That will be optimized for quality.
Josh:
So I'm very excited for the maximally quality seeking image generation.
Josh:
But for now we have speed and we have a couple cool demos that we can actually
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try but he says did you have takes have you tried it out what do you think about
Josh:
this new image generation model because i use it and it's really fun.
Ejaaz:
So what I love about it is I can get brand new video in 10 to 15 seconds.
Ejaaz:
And I was one of the earlier users of some of these early text to video models
Ejaaz:
like Midjourney or Google VO2.
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And I remember just being so annoyed and frustrated at having to wait like minutes
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for this like brand new toy, this new magical.
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It like took away from the experience. So I think Elon's strategy of just giving
Ejaaz:
you what you want super quickly is amazing.
Ejaaz:
Also, they keep giving you endless generations. Have you noticed that, Josh?
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Like if I typed a request to basically create a sunset that then dripped down
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like orange color into like an orange juice glass. So it's as if the sun is
Ejaaz:
melting into an orange juice glass.
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And it gave me endless iterations. Not only that, I could click and watch a
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video and then edit that specific video all within like 30 seconds.
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I could get like three different iterations. So I love, love, love that.
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What I will say, if I was being critical, though, is it's not as good as Google
Ejaaz:
VO3 or some of the newer Chinese text-to-video LLMs.
Ejaaz:
And the reason behind that, I think it's just it hasn't gotten a chance to get
Ejaaz:
to that higher fidelity. But as you said, they're releasing a heavier version
Ejaaz:
next month. So I think we're going to see a much better upgraded version soon.
Josh:
Yes. So what I would like to do right now is give a demo. So on screen for the
Josh:
people who are watching on YouTube, we have, this is the interface.
Josh:
This is what Imagine looks like.
Josh:
And I'm going to generate, I'm actually going to speak what I wanted to do.
Josh:
So maybe we'll go with generate me an image of a microphone sitting on top of
Josh:
the Empire State Building.
Josh:
And what you'll see is I already have these images being generated right now.
Josh:
And it looks pretty good. And you could kind of scroll through and it'll continue to generate them.
Josh:
So now what I'll say is put that microphone in outer space and give it,
Josh:
have it sit inside of a roadster. Oh,
Josh:
it put it inside of a roaster not a roadster so now we have a microphone sitting
Josh:
in a roaster in space and you should kind of scroll through and see and it's
Josh:
interesting because let's say i click one of these you could actually select
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the option that makes it a video so
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as i'm talking to you right now it's generating a video it's 21 through and
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it's going to take this microphone that's sitting in a roaster that's in outer
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space and it's going to animate it
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and what's interesting is while we wait for this to load is it actually will
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generate videos on top of your existing images so last night.
Josh:
So here's our video. It's showing a moving galaxy. And I'll also show a demo
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from last night where I was standing outside in Brooklyn.
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And I took a photo of the moon, which was perfectly aligned over the Williamsburg Bridge.
Josh:
And what it did is it actually generated me a video where the cars are going across it.
Josh:
The bridge is all lit up. It actually took the lights and it turned them green.
Josh:
So it kind of looks Christmas themed.
Josh:
And it just made it look like a moving video. And you could actually do this
Josh:
with people. You could do this with any images that you have.
Josh:
It'll take the existing image and generate a live moving video so that is the
Josh:
demo it is very cool if you have access to it i highly suggest trying it out
Josh:
they've been rolling it out quickly but yeah the imagine feature rocks do you
Josh:
have any have you used it for anything interesting.
Ejaaz:
Yeah well actually a lot of other people have used it for some interesting things
Ejaaz:
okay so let's look at some of these examples over here we have
Ejaaz:
what looks like an ai generated kind of landscape shot with like the sun setting,
Ejaaz:
we've got the ocean, we've got some cliffs in the distance
Ejaaz:
and it's kind of like a rolling camera footage going forwards.
Ejaaz:
Okay, it looks pretty good.
Ejaaz:
I think, you know, if this is like the worst version, then I can't wait to see
Ejaaz:
what the higher fidelity version looks like, Josh.
Josh:
As a Sunset Carnessori, that is 10 out of 10.
Ejaaz:
Yep. We have what looks like an image of someone that was posing with his foot
Ejaaz:
on this kind of dead mock-up skeleton that's laying on the ground and it's animated
Ejaaz:
to him to be moving and stomping on him.
Ejaaz:
So that's hilarious. This guy's like dressed up as like a knave from like the medieval century.
Ejaaz:
We have, oh, okay, this is interesting. We have someone that's taken an image
Ejaaz:
of his mother who unfortunately he lost two decades ago.
Ejaaz:
And he said, every time I watched Harry Potter and saw their moving photos,
Ejaaz:
I wish I had something like that of her today.
Ejaaz:
And that's exactly what he did with Grok. And he's got this image of him as
Ejaaz:
a kid with his dad and his mom.
Ejaaz:
And he's animated it or used Grok Imagine to create a video of his mom waving at him.
Ejaaz:
Josh, I don't know if you have any thoughts on this. I mean,
Ejaaz:
this is incredibly sentimental and woeful to an extent, but it's also super
Ejaaz:
powerful. I can't imagine what that would be like for someone,
Ejaaz:
you know, kind of like who's lost his mother.
Josh:
Yeah, this is a really powerful use case for these sentimental experiences where
Josh:
I've seen a lot of people also, you can kind of rebuild old images.
Josh:
So if you have old images of loved ones that are looking bad or they're just
Josh:
really low resolution, it'll actually take a lot of the structural features
Josh:
of the person and then generate a high fidelity version of that.
Josh:
And what's interesting is, is if you feed it enough context,
Josh:
it can essentially regenerate the person up to an extent.
Josh:
So when you think about us right now, we're recording this podcast,
Josh:
we're sharing a lot of our thoughts, we have a lot of written things,
Josh:
the AI can collect a lot of data on what makes us us, it understands my cadence
Josh:
when I speak, it understands the vocabulary that I use.
Josh:
And there is a world in which it will just recompile me
Josh:
after me so it knows what i look like it knows what i think and you could kind
Josh:
of create these digital forms of your loved ones i mean what we're seeing on
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screen now is this very rudimentary version that it takes a still photo it animates
Josh:
it it makes the person feel alive and and for someone who cares about the person the photo that's
Josh:
that's really meaningful but what if you take it even further what if you you
Josh:
fed it the journal entries of this person or a recording of this person or an
Josh:
actual video where you can get a full 360 scan of the person it creates a lot of,
Josh:
interesting use cases that i'm not sure if they're good or bad being able to recreate.
Ejaaz:
People it kind of kind of reminds me of that black mirror episode from the last
Ejaaz:
season actually where he's kind of like exploring old memories of his ex-girlfriend to kind of like
Ejaaz:
kind of like see what it was like during that time when he was his younger self
Ejaaz:
super interesting if we keep this going oh we see someone has used grok imagine
Ejaaz:
to recreate the american eagle viral campaign that
Ejaaz:
happened last week with sydney sweeney and he's got multiple different celebrities
Ejaaz:
uh in this video uh we've got zendaya oh
Ejaaz:
we've got sorry we've got zendaya here
Ejaaz:
Who else have we got anyone famous i i'm guessing elon pops up here some somewhere oh here we go
Ejaaz:
there he is he's holding a rooster that kind of doesn't look like elon but it
Ejaaz:
kind of does as well so okay we've got like people messing around with advertising
Ejaaz:
here we've got people kind of like reenacting old medieval paintings i think
Ejaaz:
there's yeah there's a couple here there's like a
Ejaaz:
someone's got an older picture of a famous boxer and kind of like animating him to box
Ejaaz:
we've got the famous dreamy night scene from Van Gogh that has now been animated
Ejaaz:
to be a real life scene depicting the man on a bicycle kind of cycling through the scene.
Ejaaz:
So loads of artistic expressions here.
Ejaaz:
Someone's drawing over here that's become like animated and lifelike.
Ejaaz:
I think that we are going to start to see
Ejaaz:
Lots of different ways that this is expressed across video content,
Ejaaz:
but also like just like social media content in general.
Ejaaz:
And I think that's only made possible because it's so quick,
Ejaaz:
Josh, because it's so cheap and accessible to anyone and everyone.
Ejaaz:
Also, it's on X as well. So you can just share this immediately after you've
Ejaaz:
like generated it from your Grog app.
Ejaaz:
I think there's even a function or a feature that gets you to post directly
Ejaaz:
on X. So he's got this whole kind of like funnel built out, which allows you
Ejaaz:
to not just create and enjoy AI content, but share it with the world
Josh:
Yeah speed and latency are paramount just how fast you can generate these things
Josh:
and also how fast you can iterate on this software so just today actually they've
Josh:
released two updates to the imagine software stack
Josh:
and they're averaging about one to two updates pushed these models every single day
Josh:
they're iterating very quickly they're pushing code very quickly they're it's
Josh:
clear that they're not afraid to push changes to production at a rapid rate
Josh:
so what i imagine we'll continue to see is the rate of acceleration will just
Josh:
go through the roof as we've seen with grok before where
Josh:
they'll iterate on these features next month we'll get the grok heavy image
Josh:
gen which will be a bit slower but much much higher fidelity i assume something
Josh:
arrival vo3 or even better
Josh:
and we're just going to continue along this progression but i think the interesting
Josh:
things we can take away from this episode are that they are not afraid to try
Josh:
something drastically different for the sake of virality or a winning product
Josh:
the companions are really impressively
Josh:
different and also good where for the first time ever you can actually communicate
Josh:
with a robot and the robot will say interesting things back and you can have
Josh:
a real conversation with this virtual being and you've never been able to do
Josh:
that before and then in the case of imagine.
Josh:
You can actually just generate an infinite amount of images.
Josh:
And it's funny, one of my friends is having a wedding soon and she needed cocktail
Josh:
drinks. So she had it generate a bunch of cocktail drinks to use on the menu.
Josh:
And it generates them in 10 seconds and they're not the best,
Josh:
but give them a little bit of time and they will be.
Josh:
So I think directionally, this is where Grok is heading. It's just the model
Josh:
will get better at an exceedingly faster and faster rate. And because they're
Josh:
not afraid to push the boundaries out of what is perceived to be acceptable,
Josh:
they will continue to win on the spirality front because that's what does well.
Josh:
It's the polarizing content, whether it's good or bad, as long as it's getting people talking.
Josh:
And that is what Grok is doing with these last series of updates.
Ejaaz:
It's also what I like, Josh, is that it's consumer facing.
Ejaaz:
I think a lot of like the AI updates that we've spoken about,
Ejaaz:
that we speak about a lot on this show, applies to like really heavy research side of things, right?
Ejaaz:
Like you've got deep research, you've got things that kind of break math olympiads and win gold medals.
Ejaaz:
But I want to use some of this stuff, right?
Ejaaz:
The normal person that kind of sits at home behind his desktop.
Ejaaz:
And what I love about XAI and Grok's approach in general is that they are hyper-focused
Ejaaz:
on consumer apps. And that is just so refreshing and accessible to me.
Ejaaz:
And I think that's great.
Ejaaz:
Folks, if you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and subscribe.
Ejaaz:
And share it with your friends. We want feedback.
Ejaaz:
We want to know what you guys want to hear more of.
Ejaaz:
So keep listening to our shows. We've got a new guest show coming out next Monday.
Ejaaz:
And we'll see you on the next one.
Josh:
Yeah, thanks a lot for watching, see you soon.