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Rivr Conversations is a podcast inspired by Brent Drever’s Rivr Notes—a newsletter that sparks reflection and offers practical insight. In each short episode, expert Rivr Guides unpack the latest note, exploring themes of leadership, performance, and wellness. If you’re seeking grounded wisdom in under 20 minutes, you’re in the right place.
Today's conversation is about a leadership trait that often gets overlooked, yet makes all the difference: gratitude. Over the past thirty years, Brent has worked with thousands of leaders and he's noticed something: those who lead with gratitude, who give credit to their teams and celebrate shared success, consistently stand out. This episode is inspired by Brent's Rivr Notes post Giving Thanks. We'll explore how gratitude shows up in great leadership, why it's not about being soft or letting people off the hook, and how simple expressions of appreciation can transform a team, a culture, and even your own perspective. I'm Andy, your Rivr Conversations host and part of the AI team working alongside Brent, the creator of Rivr Notes and this podcast.
Andy:Rivr Conversations is an extension of Brent's popular newsletter Rivr Notes. Each episode, two of our expert Rivr Guides sit down to reflect on the latest note, sharing insights, takeaways, and stories that explore leadership, performance, and wellness in a grounded, thoughtful way. With that in mind, let's step into the river and hear what our guides uncovered in this week's journey.
Reed:Today, we're looking at this compelling piece called Giving Thanks from Brent. Now he's a seasoned professional, you know, over thirty years experience.
Lena:Right. Consulting, coaching, even leading himself. He's seen a lot.
Reed:Exactly. Thousands of leads. And his observations, well, they boil down to one surprisingly simple yet profoundly powerful common thread.
Lena:That's right. And you might expect, you know, after decades of watching leaders that the secret sauce would be something flashy.
Reed:Yeah. Like off the charts IQ or maybe relentless ambition.
Lena:Or just pure charisma. Right.
Lena:But what Brent found, and this is what makes it so insightful, it's far less about innate talent or drive. It's much more about practice. Our goal for you in this deep dive is to really get under the skin of this essential quality to see why it's not just, you know, polite social grade. It's actually a foundational pillar for lasting success.
Reed:So if it's not the usual suspects, the IQ, the drive, the charisma. What was that surprising quality Brent consistently saw, you know, in those really great leaders?
Lena:The ones who build those loyal teams.
Reed:Yeah. The ones who foster thriving organizations get those sustained remarkable results. It turns out the standout theme was well, it was gratitude. Genuine deeply felt gratitude.
Lena:And that's exactly why this finding hits home. It's sort of counterintuitive, isn't it? Compared to our typical ideas about leadership.
Reed:Definitely. We often think leaders need to project power or be the dominant force.
Lena:Or just be the smartest person in the room, you know. But Brent's work shows that this this often overlooked softer skill gratitude actually delivers some of the hardest, tangible results.
Reed:So it's not superficial? Not just ticking a box?
Lena:No. Not at all. It's an authentic way of seeing and valuing the people around you. It's kind of woven into the very fabric of their leadership style.
Reed:It really makes you think, doesn't it, by your own experience. When you consider the leaders who genuinely inspired you or maybe the ones who left you feeling a bit undervalued.
Reed:How often did gratitude play a role?
Lena:Or the lack of it.
Reed:Right. Or its absence creating that void. It genuinely shifts how you look at things. Okay. So let's get practical.
Reed:How does this genuine gratitude actually like show up? Day to day actions, communication.
Lena:Yeah. How does it look?
Reed:Brink gives some really vivid examples. He talks about gratitude in action. So when these grateful leaders give a big presentation, say, they don't make it all about themselves.
Lena:Right.
Reed:They talk about their team's accomplishments. When they share progress on some complex project, they highlight the obstacles their team overcame together. Exactly. And when they celebrate milestones, the focus is squarely on the growth and success of the individuals who made it happen. The critical shift, Brent says, is the I is consistently replaced with we.
Lena:And that shift from I to we, it's a it's more than just words, isn't it? It's a fundamental change in where the credit goes, where the focus lies, and the impact is huge. When leaders adopt this this collective mindset, they're not just being nice. They're actually tapping into some pretty deep human psychology.
Reed:How is so?
Lena:Well, people have this innate need to feel seen. Right? To know their work matters. That they belong to something bigger.
Lena:A leader genuinely says we, they're validating those needs. And as Brent points out, this makes teams work not just harder, but, you know, smarter and with more passion.
Reed:Because they feel valued.
Lena:Precisely. Which inspires them to push past limits, not for the leader's ego, but for that shared mission. So, yeah, it's not just about warm fuzzies.
Reed:No. It builds real loyalty, boosts engagement.
Lena:And ultimately drives better collective performance. Everyone feels like an owner in it.
Reed:Now I can almost hear some listeners thinking gratitude. That sounds a bit soft. Like, maybe it means being a pushover.
Lena:Yeah. Is Brent saying good leaders just pat everyone on the back and shy away from tough call? Not at all. And that's a really crucial point Brent tackles head on. He's very clear.
Lena:Genuine gratitude does not mean being soft or avoiding hard choices. In fact, the leaders he admires most, they are absolutely not afraid to hold teams accountable. They make tough calls, sometimes incredibly difficult ones about talent, about strategy, about performance.
Reed:So the accountability is still there?
Lena:Absolutely. The difference of the key distinction lies in how they do it.
Reed:Okay. So what is that difference then? How do they manage to blend that challenge, that accountability with genuine appreciation? That sounds like a tricky balance.
Lena:It is. It absolutely is. And that's where the real nuance comes in. These leaders, they deliver the tough feedback or they make the difficult decisions, but they do it while still showing appreciation.
Reed:How does that work in practice?
Lena:Well, they might recognize the effort put in or the intent or the learning that happened even if the final outcome wasn't perfect. They give credit for the wins, sure, but they also share responsibility when things go wrong.
Reed:So it's not about blame.
Lena:Exactly. They make it absolutely clear that success is shared, it's not hoarded by the person at the top. And this creates a culture where, yes, people know they'll be pushed to excel, but they also feel deeply valued and supported through that process. It builds resilience, encourages growth because that trust is there.
Reed:So accountability feels less like punishment or like a shared commitment?
Lena:Yeah. A collective commitment to getting better born from mutual respect. That's the environment it fosters.
Reed:Okay. We've talked about the powerful upsides when gratitude is present. But what about the flip side? What happens when it's missing?
Lena:Right. What are the consequences when leaders just don't embrace that we mentality? Well, that's where you see the opposite effect, and it's often, like a slow corrosion. Brent describes those leaders who constantly promote themselves.
Reed:The ones always reminding you they're the CEO.
Lena:Yeah. That kind of thing. Or taking sole credit for every big decision, every company success. It's just an endless loop of I I I.
Reed:And that must have a knock on effect.
Lena:Oh, absolutely. A devastating ripple effect. When a leader consistently fails to acknowledge the team's contributions, respect just erodes.
Reed:People check out.
Lena:They disengage, motivation drops, people start to feel invisible, like their efforts don't count, and, you know, inevitably, even your best people, your most talented folks, they start looking elsewhere.
Reed:They wanna feel valued.
Lena:Of course. They'll seek out places where their work is recognized, where their input matters, where leadership isn't just focused on personal glory.
Reed:So what does this all boil down to then?
Lena:It really underscores Brent's main point. Gratitude isn't optional. It's essential. It truly is make or break for long term leadership success.
Reed:Directly impacting retention, morale.
Lena:And ultimately, the organization's performance. Yeah. Any success bill without it is just on shaky ground.
Reed:And this whole principle, the we over I, it's not just for the business world, is it? Brent uses a great analogy from sports coaching.
Lena:Yes. That's a really powerful comparison. Offers some very relatable lessons.
Reed:He points out the best coaches, they don't hog the spotlight after a big win, do they?
Lena:No. Quite the opposite. They practically push their players and assistant coaches forward, giving them all the credit.
Reed:Right. They understand that taking the heat when things go wrong, well, just comes with the job of being the leader.
Lena:Comes with the territory.
Reed:But when things go right, they shine that spotlight outwards. They celebrate the collective effort.
Lena:And that's such a brilliant parallel to the business world. You see it play out all the time, don't you? Those coaches who are always saying, I made that call or my strategy won the game, Often, eventually, they lose their staff. They lose their star players.
Reed:There's a shelf life on that approach.
Lena:Definitely. Brent's point that leadership that centers on me instead of we just doesn't last. It's as true on the field as it is in the office.
Reed:It might work short term, maybe through sheer force of will.
Lena:Or individual brilliance. Yeah. Yeah. But it completely fails to build a
Lena:sustainable, loyal, high performing team for the long haul. It's just a stark reminder that ego driven leadership is often lonely.
Reed:And ultimately self defeating.
Lena:Right. Maybe you listening can think of a coach or a leader you've known who really embodied this principle or, unfortunately the opposite.
Reed:Towards the end of the note, Brent really practices what he preaches. He offers this heartfelt personal reflection, a genuine note of thanks himself.
Lena:He walks the talk.
Reed:Yeah. He expresses deep gratitude for his Rivr Notes community. Thanks readers for, you know, joining him each week, engaging with the ideas, sharing them.
Lena:And especially for sending in their own thoughts and reflections.
Reed:Exactly. He emphasizes how that feedback genuinely fuels him. It transforms his writing from, like, him just typing into the void.
Lena:Into a shared journey.
Reed:Right. He says he really doesn't take for granted those few minutes people spend with his notes each week.
Lena:And that's powerful, isn't it? It's not just a polite sign off. He's actively demonstrating the principle.
Reed:How so?
Lena:By openly valuing his community's time and input, by saying explicitly how their engagement fuels his own work. He's showing the power of making others feel seen, feel integral to the whole thing.
Reed:He's living the gratitude he writes about.
Lena:Exactly. Reinforcing the very message he wants to share.
Reed:And in that same spirit, that spirit of community and reflection, Brent also announced a change for Rivr Notes moving from weekly to monthly, but he's quick to say this isn't the end far from it.
Lena:No. He frames it positively.
Reed:Yeah. He sees it as an opportunity to, go a little deeper, to reflect more thoughtfully, and to continue building this community together like a strategic pause to enhance quality.
Lena:And what stands out there, again, is how even a practical change, like shifting frequency, is framed through that lens of gratitude and community.
Reed:Right. He makes sure to reiterate his appreciation for everyone on the journey.
Lena:Making it clear the community is still central. It's not just a business decision. It's his core philosophy in action. It shows how deeply ingrained this gratitude principle is for him.
Reed:Not just a theory, but a guide for how he operates.
Lena:Precisely. Both in his work and his relationship with his audience.
Reed:Okay. So as we wrap up our deep dive into Brent's giving thanks, the core message seems really clear.
Lena:What's the bottom line?
Reed:Genuine gratitude isn't some optional extra, some nice to have leadership trait. It's actually critical, foundational.
Lena:You're truly effective and inspiring leadership.
Reed:Yeah. It's about empowering others, building cultures where people feel genuinely seen, deeply valued.
Lena:And intrinsically motivated to bring their best.
Reed:Right.
Lena:And this leaves us with maybe a final thought for you, the listener, to consider. How might you apply this principle, this idea of gratitude, not just if you're in a formal leadership role, but just in your daily life, your work.
Reed:Like Brent suggests, making giving thanks.
Lena:Not just this season, but as a way of leading, living, and working. Think about that. What kind of transformative impact could that consistent authentic practice have?
Reed:On your relationships, your team dynamics.
Lena:And maybe even on your own sense of purpose and fulfillment. Something to ponder.
Reed:Thanks for listening. Until next time.
Andy:That's it for this episode. To close out each Rivr Conversation, I'd like to describe the photo featured in the Rivr Notes newsletter. It's not just a stock image. It comes from a real adventure. After all, the best ideas often come from staying curious, embracing new perspectives and engaging with the world around us.
Andy:This week's photo was taken on a clear summer day in the Rockies, where the forest seems to roll on forever. A sea of evergreens stretches across the valley floor, their deep green broken only by the shimmer of sunlight and shadow. In the foreground, the slope is alive with bright grasses and scattered pines, standing tall as if keeping watch over the expanse below. Beyond it all rise the mountains. Sharp, snow dusted peaks, etched against a brilliant blue sky.
Andy:Puffy clouds drift lazily overhead, the kind that make the whole scene feel both endless and completely present in the moment. It's the kind of view that quiets the noise in your head. Standing there, you feel small in the best possible way, Part of something vast, steady and beautiful. A reminder that gratitude often begins with simply noticing where you are. If you'd like to read the full Rivr Notes article, including all the amazing photographs, you can find it at OnRivr.com that's Rivr without an e and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts so you never miss a conversation.
Andy:Before we go, a quick reminder: The opinions and viewpoints expressed in this podcast are solely those of the presenters and our AI companions, sharing personal reflections and perspectives. We're not legal experts, medical professionals, or therapists. This content is for informational and entertainment purposes only, so please consult the appropriate professionals when you need advice or support. Thanks again for listening. Rivr Conversations is an OnRivr, LLC production.