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Sounds of Science is a monthly podcast about beginnings: how a molecule becomes a drug, how a rodent elucidates a disease pathway, how a horseshoe crab morphs into an infection fighter. The podcast is produced by Eureka, the scientific blog of Charles River, a contract research organization for drug discovery and development. Tune in and begin the journey.
Susan Desmond:
Hi, my name is Susan Desmond. I've been with Charles River for over 20 years, and I'm here with my friend Rachel.
Rachel Kiserow:
Hi, I'm Rachel Kiserow. I've been with Charles River for 15 years, and I reside in Reno, Nevada.
Susan Desmond:
So Rachel, you and I came to cross paths and we thought this might make a good podcast. The purpose of the podcast I think is just to share where we're at post cancer treatment.
Rachel Kiserow:
Absolutely. Susan, you and I have crossed paths a few times over these last many years through our journey with breast cancer and our treatments and survival. And so it was such a great thing to have seen you in a different setting, and what a great way to talk about that within this podcast in life after cancer.
Susan Desmond:
I know, it was so great to actually see you on the ERG meeting, and it wasn't cancer related. It just like, "Oh my gosh, we're not talking about cancer. This is wild."
Rachel Kiserow:
And almost a relief, right, Susan? Almost kind of nice to know that of course we've been doing other things, but to see each other in different formats and different ways through work, it's nice. It's nice to have that and to acknowledge that, and to actually acknowledge the fact that we form a community too. I do feel that way with you, Susan, and with others that have been on the Breast Cancer Roundtable, so absolutely.
Susan Desmond:
Oh, I so agree, Rachel. Absolutely. I love doing The Cancer Roundtable with you because we're connected, we're connected in that way, but it was just nice to be part of something, the ERGs, outside of the Roundtable, with someone that I do have this connection with. And it also made me think, "Wow. Okay, we're really not talking about cancer." I am 10 years out and cancer's still part of my life, but it's not all parts of my life.
Rachel Kiserow:
And I completely agree, Susan, that somewhere along the way, and I don't even know when it stopped, that cancer wasn't the central point of conversation or the central attention of my life. And of course I've been moving forward and doing other things and dabbling in all sorts of different things at work and at home, raising my family. But somewhere along the way over the course of my 10, 11 years out from treatment, the conversation stopped being around cancer. Even when introducing myself to new people, it's not really what comes up anymore. It used to be very central, but now, maybe because of time, maybe because of how much time has gone by and that the doctor's appointments with the oncologist have become fewer, not so prevalent in my life and that I've been okay, that it hasn't been central.
And it's so interesting when you pose that question, Susan, about that, our life after cancer and what that looks like. And it really made me ponder, I hadn't really thought about it until you had said that, and how interesting is it to look back and to see the evolution of our time and what we've been doing and how we've coped and how we've managed through all of it. And to me, it's been remarkable actually to look back and to share this journey too with you, Susan, for sure.
Susan Desmond:
I mean, you talk about doctor's appointments, and back in as I'll call it the cancer bubble, back in the cancer bubble, I think between doctor's appointments and scans and treatments, I mean, cancer was almost 90% of my life, like everything. My conversations with friends, going to appointments, phone calls, trying to keep everyone updated.
And now, as you mentioned, we're so far out of treatment, I don't know if I had to put a number, maybe it's 10% of my life. It's really wild how something that was such a huge part of my life is now ... I don't want to say back-burner because it's definitely still there, but certainly nowhere near that 90%.
Rachel Kiserow:
No, truly, truly, I feel the same. And if it weren't for the regular doctor's appointments, the yearlies, I don't know, maybe it might be less, for me at least. I think too, that from the very beginning, one of the things that I told myself was, for one of my coping mechanisms for my own self, was stay busy. "Rachel, stay busy." Even through treatments, I stayed busy. And so my mind would just keep going and moving. And yes, absolutely have to take the time to take everything in and feel the sadness, feel the celebrations as well of when treatments were done and the milestones and acknowledging those things. But definitely keeping myself busy to help so that my mind doesn't wander too much. I think that's just how I've just been built most of my life, and so have just been on that train of just being busy. And that's really helped me though too.
And one of the passions as we talked about seeing each other in the ERGs, you for the Women's ERG, and for me for the Asiatic Pasifika ERG, in that this has helped me to really dive into something completely different from work. It's work, but it almost feels fun. It's definitely fun, but it doesn't feel like work, I guess is my point. Being involved in the ERGs and how meaningful it is and the impact, that's such a positive impact it has on our employees. I love the fact that I am able to do that and that Charles River's giving me a chance to be able to partake in that, and to lead it actually and mentor others for future for the ERGs is just really, really meaningful for me. And it helps me with my time, for sure.
And that life after cancer, that part of it being that life after cancer, that that's not the topic. That it's the topic of DE&I and ERGs, employee engagement, all that wonderful stuff.
Susan Desmond:
Yeah, so true. I mean, going through treatment, wanting to keep busy and keep my mind occupied, and then that just kind of evolved into real life and staying busy and keeping my mind occupied. And it's amazing how it just rolls into real life. Like here we are, real life, keeping busy, doing other things.
But yet, still that little pocket of the cancer patient, cancer survivor, is still there. I recently had a friend diagnose and currently going through treatment, and they said to me just this weekend, they said, "I can describe what going through cancer and cancer treatment is like, but unless someone's been through it, it's really hard to describe it accurately." And that's why I think they felt comfortable coming to me because they know I've been through it. So in that sense, as we talk about life after cancer and moving on, and that's so important, I think I also hold on to a little piece of being a cancer patient or cancer survivor, if especially it can help others.
Rachel Kiserow:
And I completely agree with you, Susan. I actually haven't been approached a ton, but when I am by those that I know that are new to being diagnosed, I want to be there for them, for sure, because of that understanding, that actual experience of having gotten through it. And of course, respecting that everybody's journey is different too, and I acknowledge that. Remembering what pieces of advice really helped me when I was going through it and what resonated most with me and what stayed with me, passing that on as well. Providing that support and that source of strength if they need it, that shoulder if they need it. It helped me feel less alone during that time, and I absolutely want to be able to give that to others.
So that brings me though, Susan, to what do we, as cancer survivors, what do we carry forever as a cancer survivor?
Susan Desmond:
Yeah, that's a great reflection question, Rachel. I'm getting a little teared up. But I think this may sound odd, but I actually, I carry gratitude. And people will say, "That's crazy. Why are you happy with cancer?" It just made me recognize how precious life is and just how grateful I am for all the support, especially my friends and family, that I had around me. So definitely gratitude is something I carry with me.
Something else I carry with me, which I was not expecting, was this knowledge of what cancer is all about. I certainly, I'd like to be someone that learns and never stops learning, but I can't say I honestly wanted to learn about cancer, but the cancer lesson came knocking at my door. So I think I'll carry that knowledge with me for a long, long time. How about yourself?
Rachel Kiserow:
Your reaction and your sentiments, Susan, are mine. They're mine. I don't know if you remember from our past Breast Cancer Roundtables, it was hard to talk about anything without for me getting teared up because it's part of me now, and I think we carry it. I definitely still carry it. Everything that happened during that time, I absolutely carry in terms of the pain and the uncertainty and the darkness. That darkness, it's still there. It's not everything anymore. It was at one point, it absolutely was at one point.
But to have gotten through all these years and to have watched ... And I'll just talk about my children because of course they're central in my life. And to have watched them grow over these 11 years and to have seen the young men that they've grown into, and gosh, gratitude is absolutely there, Susan. I agree with you completely. To have had that time with them and to have been able to be there for them. There was a time where I thought, "I may not be here for them." And I looked at my husband and I was like, "Can you do this?" And we actually talked about it, we talked about it during that time. And I said, "You might have to do this by yourself." And to have had that conversation with young children. At the time the boys were five and seven, I believe, and to have looked at him and to have had those kinds of conversations back then were really tough.
But what I carry with me is that lesson, that life lesson that I would've never had had I not gone through that, had we had not gone through that as a family. Because now today, I understand very, very, very well each day that life is fleeting. It's said many times, but life is fleeting and that my blessings are right in front of me. And I do everything I can to ensure, to give that extra hug, that extra squeeze of the hand, that extra look of compassion and love to my family and to those around me, because I hold that time very, very precious.
Because it's one of the first things I thought about during that time, that first year of diagnosis, those first initial weeks of diagnosis was, "I'm not done yet. There's not enough time. We need more time." And so today, I carry with me forever that time is so precious, and that I do with my time the best that I can and really cherish it, especially with my loved ones, for sure.
Susan Desmond:
Yeah, life is precious. Time is precious. When I think of I've been able to see my first daughter graduate college, and my second one is in her senior year, so precious with a capital P, for sure. But since we're talking about life after cancer, and we've talked a little bit during and both, what's next? What are you looking forward to now at this stage?
Rachel Kiserow:
Oh, gosh, there's so much. Well, like you said, I'm a little behind you in terms of the kids. The kids, my oldest is a sophomore in college, so a couple more years in school, and then my youngest is a junior in high school. And so I definitely look forward to seeing them get through school and graduate and become young men, contribute to society in a good way.
You know what's neat is, Susan, on a personal note, to say is that it's neat for me to see my children formulate meaningful relationships of their own. Particularly my oldest, who is in a serious relationship now, and I've never seen that before. And to see him grow through that relationship and for him to experience love is pretty neat for me. I'm sure he would be mortified if he heard this [inaudible 00:16:01]. That's okay. To me, that's neat.
Susan Desmond:
You're a mom, you're a mom. You're allowed.
Rachel Kiserow:
I'm allowed, yes. To me, it's amazing because it's another milestone. It's another step of seeing them grow. And so that's what's next, is just seeing them go through that.
In terms of me, gosh, I need to get on being more active, honestly. I keep saying that, but I'm like, "Okay, go walking. Go do something. Go dance." I don't know. That's definitely on my bucket ... Not bucket list, but my list of things that I need to get on is, be much more active than I am now. My body's screaming aches and pains and all that stuff. It's like, "Get moving, Rachel." So that's one of my things I need to get to go and do.
Keep traveling I think is another thing that I'd love to do too. Internationally hopefully one day soon. My children want to go to Europe and also go back to the Philippines. It's been 20-plus years since I've been back to the Philippines, so I would really love to do that sometime very soon, for sure. What about you, Susan?
Susan Desmond:
Yeah, not too far off that, Rachel. Again, having two amazing daughters, just seeing them thrive and become members of society is definitely on my list to continue watching. Just celebrated my 30th wedding anniversary, so looking forward to celebrating more with my husband.
Rachel Kiserow:
Congrats.
Susan Desmond:
Thanks. Yeah, so again, we're lucky and we have time ahead of us. And also what I'm looking forward to is more time catching up with you.
Rachel Kiserow:
Oh, absolutely, Susan. It's been so great. And I'm so glad you said something because I did see you and I was like, "Oh, there she is." And then you had reached out. I was like, "Oh, I was going to totally say hi to you." And so absolutely, absolutely. Many, many more years of doing this, Susan, for sure.
Susan Desmond:
Yeah, I'll look forward to that. But for today, thanks for catching up, Rachel.
Rachel Kiserow:
You too, Susan. It's great talking to you.
Susan Desmond:
Take care.
Rachel Kiserow:
Take care.