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In the debut episode of the Waste Warriors Podcast, host Lee Godbold welcomes Gavriel Dzhanov from WG Waste, based in Atlanta. Gavriel shares his journey in the waste industry, starting with a single truck in junk removal to building a multi-million dollar business with commercial dumpster rentals. They dive into the challenges and strategies for growing a waste management company, including the importance of building broker relationships, the benefits of choosing the right equipment, and the value of predictability in dumpster rental services. Gavriel also touches on the future plans for WG Waste, including the potential for a transfer station to further improve efficiency and profitability. This episode is packed with insights for anyone looking to start or scale a business in the waste industry.
00:00 Introduction to Waste Warriors Podcast
02:13 Gavriel Dzhanov's Journey into the Waste Industry
03:19 Transition to Dumpster Rentals
05:21 Rapid Business Growth and Strategies
08:28 Understanding Broker Relationships
16:06 Challenges and Insurance Requirements
17:29 Operational Efficiency and Financial Insights
22:43 Starting and Scaling a Dumpster Business
26:53 Importance of New Equipment
35:36 Truck Sales and Inventory Management
37:31 Volvo vs. Mac Trucks: A Comparison
38:18 Freightliner vs. Mac: Price and Reliability
40:13 Maintenance and Repairs: Key Considerations
40:49 Roll Off Trucks: Common Issues and Solutions
42:54 Front Load Trucks: Preferences and Recommendations
44:47 Hiring and Retaining Drivers
47:40 Insurance Costs and Considerations
51:54 Starting a Roll Off Business: Strategies and Tips
01:00:59 Front Load Business: Getting Started and Cash Flow
01:09:24 Future Plans and Expansion
01:11:36 Final Thoughts and Advice
Creators and Guests
What is The Waste Warriors?
Step into the trenches with The Waste Warriors Podcast, the ultimate resource for waste industry pros determined to build 7- and 8-figure empires. Whether you’re in dumpster rentals, junk removal, front-load services, or curbside pickup, this monthly podcast delivers battle-tested strategies to scale your business. Each episode features raw insights from industry leaders, reviews of game-changing equipment and tech, and proven tactics to crush the competition. If you're ready to dominate the waste industry, this podcast is your ultimate playbook.
Lee: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Hey everybody. Hey, this is Lee Godbold with the new Waste Warriors podcast.
This is episode one. I'm extremely excited to have Gabriel from WG Waste down in Atlanta that is joining us for the show. Gabriel owns a couple different business. Well, it's all in the same business within WG Waste, but he's got some front load containers and some roll off containers. He's been in the junk removal business too, so he's even providing trucks.
So he actually sells some trucks in that space. So he's very well connected in the waste industry. Been running a business for several years now. It's a multimillion dollar year business. I think we're all gonna be able to learn some great things for him. So Gabriel, I'm glad to have you here.
Gabriel Dzhanov: I'm glad to be here. Uh, we, we, we, we go way back whenever we started 67 years ago with junk removal, you guys helped us out and ever since we've been working together.
Lee: Yep. It's been a really great partnership. I enjoyed visiting you just a few days or a few weeks ago. Um, that was, uh, great. We had Tyler Baker from Valley Junk Removal, uh, that came down [00:02:00] there to see you, kind of see your operation. He's gonna be getting into the dumpster business in, uh, Huntsville. So it was very helpful and just, uh, really appreciated the partnership with Jerry Digital and looking forward to, uh, continuing that.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Sure.
Lee: So, as we get started here, can you give us just a bit more of a introduction to wg Waste? I know I covered a few things there, but if you just kind of talk about your, your history, how you wound up in getting into the business, and kind of the journey to where you are now.
Gabriel Dzhanov: So we started out as a white glove junk removal. Uh, that was about 20 20 18, 20 19 at one truck. That was me and my partner Daniel. We, uh, we had a truck. My main business, what I started, was as a truck sales, and we still run the truck sale business today. Uh, we had a, a. Uh, college hunk trucks, two of them.
And instead of selling them, we're like, ah, why don't we try getting into a junk removal business? Uh, that's how we got into it. We started advertising on Craigslist, on Facebook. Got a few jobs. [00:03:00] Uh, me and Daniel, we did a couple of those jobs, my ourselves to begin with. I said, oh, well, we can make money with that.
It's not too complicated. It's not too difficult. Uh, we ran that, um. Basically for one truck, two trucks, up to five or six trucks. We ran that for two years, maybe two and a half years. Then we figured that the dumpster rental side of it, because we use the switch and go systems, the dump, so you can drop the dumpster and actually leave it with the customer.
Instead of doing the junk ram removal yourself, they can, you know, do it themselves. Uh, we started doing dumpster rentals and then we figured out that that's actually more profitable and more predictable side of the business compared to a junk removal. 'cause with junk removal there's a lot of unknowns.
You can go drive for an hour, see a customer, give 'em a quote, and they're not happy. End up just, you know, wasting your time and money. Uh, so once again, we sold more, more potential for the growth. For Steady, for Steady Growth was a dumpster rental business. Uh, we [00:04:00] also had a, a commercial property, uh, and a company was renting it out for me.
They basically had, uh, one broken down truck. Truck that was always broken down. Uh, in the first six months, uh, it was never running. Uh, a company called Raintree, uh, and they go from zero to 20 something trucks in five years, and they ended up, uh, exiting. I'm not sure what the number were, but they ended up, uh, being bought out by Republic Waste.
And I was like, well, I can do that. And uh, that's when we got into a tandem axle, big trucks. Uh, we sold off everything. We had, uh, single axle, all the junk removal trucks. We completely got away from that. And that's how our journey started. Not as wide glove junk removal as as but as WG waste.
Lee: Wg waste. I like it. So, uh, you started off in Junker Mobile. How long did you do that for?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Two, two and a half years.
Lee: And then you've been doing dumpsters for how long now?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Since 2020. Since 2020. So four years.
Lee: Okay. And how many can, [00:05:00] how many cans are you guys running now?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, about 200 on the roll off side.
Lee: Nice. And uh, how many trucks?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So roll offs. We got nine trucks and the front load, we got six trucks.
Lee: Okay. And revenue wise, you, I mean, I know you guys are multi-million dollar year business. Would you, uh, care to share kind of where you guys stand at the moment and what your goals
Gabriel Dzhanov: we're we, so we, we doubled, we're, we're, we're six mill last year. Uh, we almost doubled, not quiet, but almost doubled from the year before that. And I think we're gonna do, uh, we're gonna do possibly, you know, closer to 10 this year. We'll see, uh, we, we got a good team of people. We got, uh, good salespeople now that, not just me, that were pricing things out before.
Uh, we got people that, with the industry experience, people that had, uh, been in a, in a waste, uh, for longer than I have been that we hired that do sales for us now.
Lee: So that, that's pretty rapid growth, especially going from what you're gonna have done [00:06:00] in 24 to what you're aiming at to do in 25. What's kinda been some of the, the main things that you've done to put you on the growth path and, and what do you think you're gonna have to do this year to, to, so you can hit that $10 million revenue figure?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, what's, what, what have we done? What we ha what have we not done?
Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
Gabriel Dzhanov: we, we did it all. We started, uh, basically we started with the Google Ads. Uh, that's was our sales strategy from the beginning. We only spent quite a bit of money, uh, on Google Ads. Then, uh, we learned about brokers in the industry. We learned that most of the, most of the big companies, large corporations, they go through the brokers, uh, to, to get the contracts, to get the holders.
To remove the waste. We started establishing the connections about three years ago. Uh, with big brokers, smaller brokers. There's a lot of 'em out there. So we, [00:07:00] with brokers, the work is more permanent. There's some permanent, there's some temporary work, but we're able to, we were able to grow with mostly permanent work.
That, that's what I want. I don't, I want the predictable work. I want to know what I'm gonna have for tomorrow, what I'm gonna have for next week, I'm on the call right now. I told you it'll be busy. Actually got someone that's, uh, buying one of the junk trucks.
That's, uh, you guys made for me.
Lee: Oh, well, good, good.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh.
Lee: can actually include that in the show then,
Gabriel Dzhanov: There you go. Uh, so with a, with a permanent business, the, the growth is, uh, more predictable. Uh, we know how many dumpsters we need to add. We know that this dumpster, it might not turn every week. It might not turn as a, on some of the, uh, construction jobs, the dumpster might turn once every couple days, once every week, uh, with a permanent business might be once a month or twice a month.
But it's more predictable to where we know the, the pace of our growth. We know that next month we're gonna be adding more work, but [00:08:00] at least we have enough work for six trucks, even though we have nine trucks now. But always, uh, we always keep the, the Google ads running. So if, if we need the, if we have more dumpsters than we, we want to on our yard, we just put a little more money in Google Ads, so we get 'em out.
But once again, our main, main, uh, way of growth was just to keep the relationship with the brokers, checking on them, establishing new connections, new brokers, and just growing through that.
Lee: So talk a little bit about on the broker side of things, I'm not really all that familiar with 'em. Matter of fact, any knowledge that I really have of them is just from conversations that you and I have had. Um, how does that typically work in terms of like a revenue split? So they find the work, they send it to you.
How does that typically work between, I mean, do they set the, set the rates? Do you bid on it? Just kind of run down that process for everybody, if you would.
Gabriel Dzhanov: So broker usually charges a set fee for their services, and they, from my understanding, there are different brokers, there are different models of how they work. [00:09:00] The, the, the brokers charge 15 to 25% or maybe 30% or maybe 10% they bid out your work, they bid out, uh, with multiple haulers in the area of, uh, who would get the best price.
I. Uh, for this type of work. So with, uh, with us, when I, whenever I bid something out, I always email them and tell 'em, listen, if I need to do anything better on the price, let me know. I'll try to match, uh, whatever was the lowest bid. I mean, we, we, you cannot be the lowest. You, you don't want to be, uh, giving them the lowest price.
You can't always, uh, because the bigger companies, their prices are not low. So we, you want to give 'em a fair number and then you want to ask them for second chance. If you guys want to come back to me before you accept the other bid, I'll see what I can do for you. Once again, it's all relationship based.
It's all, and most of the brokers will do, do that. Some of the brokers, they, they have a automated to where the system makes, actually makes a [00:10:00] decision. So it takes a human out of that. But, uh, most of the brokers will reach out and, and tell us, listen, that's where you at, where we need, we need to be here.
Can you do that? And then you decide if you wanna do that or not.
Lee: Perfect. Where do you, uh, find those brokers and, and kind of make those relationships that you're talking about?
Gabriel Dzhanov: We started out by, I, I had, I had, I, I've known someone that used to work for entry, so she threw a couple of names for those companies that do that at us. And we basically called them and, uh, started the relationship there. They have very, they have requirements for what you should have as insurance. So that could be a little more complicated in the beginning.
Uh, for the companies that, that don't have enough coverage. They might not be able to work with certain brokers, but, but talk to them. Uh, see, see what they can do for you or what you can do for them. Talk to your insurance agent and figure out exactly, uh, you know, how you can start working with them. But at first it was not easy [00:11:00] 'cause we didn't know all the ins and outs.
Now it's, uh, a lot easier if we need to change something, we just call our insurance broker and they get it done.
Lee: And the brokers you're talking about that you're using, is that mainly on your front load business or is that on your roll off business?
Gabriel Dzhanov: All of the, both.
Lee: Both. So you're getting it from both. And is it like a, I know there's like a budget dumpster rental, like if you just Google, you know, dumpster rental in some area, you're gonna have some of those legion sites come up.
Are they consider, are you considering them a broker?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yeah. They are there. It's, it's mostly temporary work that you get through that, uh, you will get, uh, so it's, it's all about different streams of work coming in. Some of that you will get through people, whatever you just said. Uh, people that utilizing SEO Google Ads and whatnot. Some of that, uh, through the brokers, some of the, some of the Google calls that we received, uh, might actually turn into a long term partnership.
Lee: Right.
Gabriel Dzhanov: So it's, it's all about being out there and getting all, all the streams of [00:12:00] work you can get into and then see what you can do with it.
Lee: And let's, um, well, and so to kind of, kind of summarize what you're saying there, so the, the budget dumpster to some of the SEO stuff is oftentimes kind of short term. Um, sometimes it leads to longer term, but a lot of times that's probably like your residential worker or residential jobs or something.
But you're using brokers mainly for long-term work where you drop a bin off at, at some place and it stays there. Is that right?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So, yeah. So let's say you're, you're, uh, your MACIs or your uh, uh, Hilton Hotel. You don't wanna be dealing with each and every individual hauler. You wanna have one broker that you go to that will give you one invoice or multiple invoices, but everything will go through that connection. So it's easier for larger companies to go through this one connection, and then they find the local companies that can do the job, uh.
Most efficient way, uh, cost efficient way, whatever it is, the, the broker's job is [00:13:00] to find multiple holders to bid it out in the area and then make sure everything is streamlined, make sure all the, all the invoices are to the customer's liking. And once again, we, we, we get the work done. That's our part.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's the part you play. Understood. So, let's say in Raleigh, which I don't know a whole lot about brokers, if I wanted to start a dumpster rental company, which we've talked about it before, I don't think we're ever gonna do it now 'cause we've got other stuff we're working on, but we've explored it some, let's say I wanted to make some connections with brokers.
What's the first thing you would do to, to locate these gas?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, it, it would help if you know someone that can show you the way it, it would, maybe that would be tremendous help. That's what really helped us from the beginning. And I wish there was someone. Uh, that could help even more, uh, to what we know now and where we are now. It's, uh, it takes time to establish those connections.
It takes time. Most of this work is contracted three to five years, so you just have to be there to gain [00:14:00] that business. You have to sometimes wait out for it to gain that business. But, uh, just, just, you know, ask, ask around. There's a waste export you can go to if you really thinking about going to, uh, you know, doing the waste, uh, as a, as an industry, not, not just a junk.
Removal for junk removal is probably not that good, but waste export is very good. Uh, if you're starting out a dumpster rental business and a front load business.
Lee: So do you feel like you could get a Waste Expo, uh, which is in Las Vegas actually coming up here in a few months in May? We we're actually going, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll see you there. Um, do you feel like you could go to that expo and make some of those connections with some of the brokers there?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Absolutely. They have boosters set up. They want to see the small haulers. Uh, they, they, they'll give you free lunch. They'll give you free drinks because they need, they need the small haulers to get the work done in the areas where it's, uh, dominated by the big three or four companies. So they want, the more options they have, uh, the better it's for end user, their customer.
Lee: Yeah, the better price they can get. 'cause the big guys are more [00:15:00] expensive. I think you mentioned that before. Generally the big guys are gonna be pricier and the smaller guys have to come in at a lower rate. Is that normally how it
Gabriel Dzhanov: It's, it's not, not even that. It's, it's responsiveness, it's customer service. Uh, if something is not right, uh, and, and a customer needs extra attention, the broker, the best ideal broker, uh, ideal, ideal holder for the broker is somebody that takes care of everything themselves. So the, there's minimum communication between.
Everyone. So, uh, if there is any kind of services that need extra step, the smaller companies, at least in in our, the way we do things, uh, we will do that extra step to make sure everything is run smooth. We will answer the call at night, in the morning, whatever it is, we will send someone to tend to the problem immediately.
If you've got a large company that's got a one 800 help me, uh, line, and you're calling a person instead of here in Atlanta, somebody you know in Arizona that doesn't even know where this place is located or where they're dealing with, [00:16:00] it's a lot more, a lot more layers that makes it more complex.
Lee: Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Uh, you were talking about insurance earlier as being a challenge for new haulers. What type of insurance do you typically find that you need to be approved by a broker.
Gabriel Dzhanov: It's, it's a, there are multiple insurances that you would need, uh. Uh, the, we didn't know what we needed, so we just got basic full coverage in our trucks. Then we'll learn about the liability insurance. Uh, then we'll learn about different limits, uh, that, that we would need for different properties.
Different brokers require to have different limits, so it's, once you start working with someone, they usually give you what they need from you. We had a couple of customers to where they needed larger limits than what we have. They needed like a three mil or five mil, and we only have two mil. Uh, you can work with them.
They worked with us. We told 'em, listen, we, it, it doesn't make sense for us to add it just because it becomes [00:17:00] too expensive. We would not be able to give you the same service for the same price. Uh, the price would have to be higher. Uh, they were able to work with us and, you know, take whatever we have.
Not always, but sometimes it does work.
Lee: So a $2 million policy is generally a pretty good starting point. Like a $2 million liability policy is normally a good starting point.
Gabriel Dzhanov: We started with one with that's, that's, I think that's the, that, that's what we started with. And then we got, got
Lee: Moved up to two. Very good. So you were talking about before you really enjoyed the predictability of the dumpster rental business. Approximately how much money can you make, like per can or per truck? Um, what's typical, like revenue figures? So you could figure on the roll off side and then break it out and talk about it a little bit on the front load as well.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Every market is different. For example, a dumpster could rent for a thousand dollars, uh, in New
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Dzhanov: and it could be $450 here in Atlanta. Uh, it's, there are multiple, [00:18:00] multiple things that will go into the calculating of the cost, uh, landfill, how far you have to drive, what's your labor cost. Uh, so then in, in the beginning.
Let's, let's, let's break this question into two parts. So first, first one is, how many jobs can one truck do get done? They can do 6, 7, 8 jobs when they get to that eight jobs per date. That's amazing. That's when you really like making it.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Dzhanov: To get there, you have to have multiple trucks running. So with more equipment out there, with more routes, uh, with more trucks dedicated to certain areas, you get better efficiency.
Lee: Just because your routes become a lot tighter,
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes. Well, you do, you guys do that with junky model too, right? So you, you have certain trucks servicing certain areas and they can get 5, 6, 7 jobs instead of driving all over town to do two, three jobs.
Lee: When you first got started, did you [00:19:00] guys do a really wide range? Um, I mean, land's a huge market. We all know traffic is kind of horrendous there, especially at certain times. Or did you try and focus on like a smaller area?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So for the roll off, we had the 30 to 40 mile range from, from where we are for the front load. When we started, uh, we basically had to stay within 2 85. That's when we just started. For the front load service, it's, it's different because, uh, front load, front load truck can do 50, 60 pickups before it has to go dump on the roll off.
Basically, after each can is picked up, you have to go dump it to either a transfer station or a landfill. Uh, but front load density, the proximity of the, of the Kansas, super important.
Lee: Okay, so you've got, you said, uh, on the front load, 50 to 60, uh, halls
Gabriel Dzhanov: Lifts, lifts.
Lee: that's what, 50 to 60 lifts and these are the like eight, eight yard
Gabriel Dzhanov: 4, 6 hr. Yeah.
Lee: Okay. Got it. And on the roll off stuff, obviously you're, [00:20:00] you're dumping after every single time that you, you pick one up, right? Or, or, or swapping it off.
So one roll off truck you, you said could do between six to eight hauls in a Six to eight. That's, that's where you want it to be? Yes. At least that's where we want it to be. Somebody might say something else, but that's the, we, we, we, I like to be between six and eight. If they can do eight, that's amazing.
All right, so that's $3,000. Uh, let's, let's say it's six hauls. It's three, and it's 500 bucks for a haul, let's just say that's $3,000. That would be like a 30 yard container, I guess. Is that
right? yes and no. So when you do, when you do a swap, you end up not charging as much. So for example, if we do, if we do a swap, we only charge 200 and. $2,230 for a swap where we take in an empty dumpster, we're living in a on customer side, and we pick one up that's already there. Uh, so we don't have to go there twice.
Gabriel Dzhanov: It becomes more efficient this way. Uh, and uh, another thing is you charge whole plus disposal. So it might not [00:21:00] be, it might not be a four, $500 ticket, it might be only a $350 ticket because what, what we do in Atlanta area at this point, right now, it's January 25, we charge for c and d about 59 to $69 per ton, and we do two ton minimum.
So that ticket could be about $350.
Lee: Okay. Alright. So would you say on average between the swaps and the, and the new drop offs, 300 or three 50 would be the average? What would you generally
Gabriel Dzhanov: I, I would, I would say about three 50. That's where we, you know, at least the number we want it to be. It could be more, it could be less about 22, 2000 1800. Uh, that's, that's what my trucks get on average per day. Sometimes they get more, depending on the load,
Lee: okay. So how heavy the load was.
about 2200, you guys running six days a week or something like that? Is that right?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, we around five days a week, and then we do Saturday, half day, 2, 3, 4 hours, depending on how busy we were the week before that.
Lee: But you'd say, so the average truck can probably bring in, depending on where you are, obviously if you're in New York or something, [00:22:00] San Francisco, some of the areas that's really hot, uh, expensive to operate, average truck can probably bring in around 600,000 or so in a year. Does that sound about right?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So it should, in ideal world,
Lee: Right.
Gabriel Dzhanov: however, there, there are breakdowns, uh, drivers have days off. Uh, ideally it should, it should make about $50,000 a month. Uh, we are at about, you know, 30 to 40, I would say closer to 40,000, uh, a month. We're trying to get that number. Once again, the efficiency. Once you get, uh, that one truck stays in one area and you have a transfer station or landfill nearby that you can utilize, you can get a lot more out of that one truck.
Lee: Okay. So. Let's call it round about a half million dollars for a, for a truck in a, in a given year, maybe four to 500,000, something like that is what somebody could plan on if they're getting into the business.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Not in the beginning. Once you have the efficiency in the beginning, it's gonna be a lot less because, uh, your efficiency is not there in the beginning. Uh, [00:23:00] if, if in the beginning, if you're on the truck, you can make more money because you don't have, uh, expensive paying the driver. Uh, and, and I was never on the truck.
I mean, I wasn't on the truck maybe a couple of days because I had other businesses to run. Uh, wanted to see what they do and how they do. So that's why I was on the truck. But, uh, in the beginning it was first year we, we lost money. We did not make any money. Uh, first year was probably, I remember whenever you were here in Atlanta, we discussed of, you know, how excited you get whenever you start a new business.
Uh, and, and then once you, once you really start doing things, you realize, okay, the downhill, uh.
Lee: Yeah, it's kind of that loop. What, what is, it's, um, you've got a lot of enthusia, you have ignorant enthusiasm when you first get started and you're on the way up. And then you kind of realize, all right, you know this, this isn't as easy as what people thought. And then you start, you know, you kind of work your way down where all of a sudden you've got informed pessimism.
And then most people they drop off after that. They just go outta business and they go off to the next kind of business that they wanna start. And they never truly make it [00:24:00] successful. You have to like push past that, uh, informed pessimism. Then you get back to informed optimism and then you've got growth.
And that's when you go off and do your own thing. And I remember us talking about that, and I think that's something that we've experienced. 'cause both you and I have started multiple businesses in the past. Um, now it, in the first, you know, I started a bunch. Before we kind of hit on, uh, junk Doctors or right after we'd started Junk Doctors.
And then I just realized, you know, over the last like five, six years, it's been really good at sticking with, for the most part what we've been doing all along, or at least something that's kind of related to it. And it's worked out really well. And I think you've gone off that same direction too, 'cause you're in the truck stuff, but you've gone all, but you've kind of specialized in those larger trucks and then you're on the way side of things.
So definitely, definitely a thing. It's, uh, every business has that kind of, kind of, that circle for sure.
Gabriel Dzhanov: The, the cycle where you first have to learn of the, the worst part and then figure out how to make it, uh, how to make it good. We, we, after a year, we were thinking of selling ev everything basically for assets. We were ready to take a it, uh, between me and Daniel because we, we [00:25:00] started before the prices for the trucks and dumpsters went through the roof.
So we bought our first 40 or 60 dumpster, I think it was 60 dumpsters, uh, about 3000, $3,500 a piece. Next year, a year and a half after that, they were $6,000. Uh, the So you could have made money. Yeah, we could have made, so we could have broke even, uh, at that point and walked away from it. And the trucks we bought at about one 60.
Uh, and, and that point a year and a half later, they were about 200. So 220. So we could have definitely, uh, you know, made some, we definitely wouldn't lose money. We could've made some money on the dumpsters and on the trucks. Uh, and then me, and between me and Daniel were like, okay, so let's, let's try it one more time.
Because we had somebody else run the company for about a year that obviously lied to us, that had no idea what he was doing. Uh, hello to Gary. Uh, and, uh, he, he lost quite a bit of money. He run the company basically to the ground. We didn't know where the dumpsters were. [00:26:00] We, we thought we lost about 10 dumpsters, which, uh, you know, at that point when we bought 'em at $3,500, $35,000, we end up finding eight or nine of them.
There's still one or two that are kind of missing, but, uh. After me and Daniel took over once again, we had other business that we were running full time. We were basically employees of the truck dealership. We were selling trucks daily, and this was as something else that we did daily. We had, we had one or two office employees that we ended up letting go.
And basically Daniel was doing everything. I was doing the pricing. And then we slowly hired one, you know, one person, second person, third person. Uh, we slowly hired better drivers because drivers is also something that can make or break your business. If drivers don't know what they're doing, they can create so much damage.
Uh, basically your insurance will not insure you.
Lee: Yeah. So you started in the roll off business first in about 2020, uh, after junk removal.
And when did you get [00:27:00] into the front load side of things?
Gabriel Dzhanov: 2022, we started getting into it. We first had someone, someone else do our work. Uh, there is a smaller guy, uh, here in Atlanta that has a truck, but he doesn't have time to be, uh, getting his own work. So he did. We, we had about $10,000 worth of work. Then we started running our own very first truck.
And uh, we got it to 20 within two, three months. And then we started adding more and more and more. Uh, another very important part, especially when you start with just one truck. We had a roll offs. We bought brand new trucks on the front load. We bought a used truck that's a 2011 Mac. And, uh, those trucks are on very, very hard.
Uh, and there's a lot of variable wearable parts in them. So if you don't buy new, guess what? You're gonna be fixing this truck every day. Every day. And we were this truck. Worked once or twice or three times a week in the beginning because there are so many things we had to fix on it. And then after about six months, we [00:28:00] basically bought a brand new truck.
And that's what really helped us to, to move forward with it. If, if we would've continued with the used trucks or buying second use truck, we would, we would've not gotten anywhere where we are today.
Lee: Yeah, and we, and I started the same thing now. When I first got started with junk doctors, I had like no credit. I didn't have bad credit. I just had absolutely no credit at all. All I had never borrowed anything. So we started, used for the first like three or four trucks, and I. Completely different price point.
I mean, back then, this has been, you know, 13 years ago, 10 to 13 years ago, you could pick up a used old, got junk truck with, you know, 90,000 miles. Uh, for, I think the first truck we bought was like 12,500 bucks. And then we, we'd gotten into the twenties or something by the time we bought our last used.
And from then on all the way up to, we just, uh, took delivery on our 19th and 20th. Um, uh, overall, they, they've all been new. And I, I have a saying, I tell people it's like, listen, you're either gonna pay the mechanic to repair it or you're gonna pay the bank interest, uh, in terms of borrowing it, or, you know, if you're [00:29:00] able to cut the, cut the check, uh, upfront, like you're gonna be paying the same amount to somebody, but at least you're gonna have predictability of being able to run the truck.
Um, it's not gonna be breaking down near as much. And that unpredictability, I. That wears on you emotionally, it just drains you. 'cause those issues that pop up, like you still have customers that have to get serviced and all of a sudden they're hitting you up and they're calling you and they're, they're pissed.
Um, and you, you gotta coordinate with the mechanic and a lot of times, unless you have your own and you're large enough to do that, you gotta wait a few days to get him to even look at it. And then you gotta wait days or sometimes weeks, depending on parts availability on some of these trucks. So new, I think we're both in agreement, is definitely the way to go,
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, new we, and, and you have to think about the backup. So even, even new trucks, they break down, right? We, it might be covered by the warranty, so you don't have to pay for it out of pocket. But if you, if you're planning on growing the business and, and especially in the beginning, uh, being able to provide the service, that's what's gonna differentiate you from, from the other people, right?
[00:30:00] Uh, you, you, you bidding for the same jobs. Listen, you're gonna be there. I'm gonna get it done. You need to have at least two trucks when it comes to roll offs. That's, that's what we did. We had two roll offs, and then, um, with a, with a front load, it was, uh, it's, it's harder because they're more expensive too.
Uh, so for example, the roll off, whenever we started, they were at one 60 for a brand new one.
That's FET included because it's a class A truck. There is a 12% tax. Whatever you are buying. There's a 12% tax on top with, uh, with the front load. Whenever we started, our first truck was about 340, 300 30,000.
That's with FAT. Right now you're looking at anywhere from 400 to $150,000 for, uh, the new front load truck. And besides that, uh, you have to buy cans. Cans for the, for the roll off truck. When you just start out for one truck, you can do about 20, 30 cans, uh, per truck. For the front load truck, to keep the density, to keep 'em busy, you have to get at least a hundred or, or 150 cans, uh, for one [00:31:00] truck to be busy, uh, so that it's not just the truck.
You also have to purchase the cans. And with the truck, it's easier to get financing because it's titled equipment, uh, with cans. Depending on how, you know, depending on your relationship with the bank, some will be able to give you the money, some don't. Once again, depending on, depending on your credit and your relationship with the bank.
But it might be more expensive. Uh, higher interest rate. Uh, for untitled equipment,
Lee: And how long can you typically finance these, uh, truck purchases for? Is it just like a car, five, six years, or is it longer, like 10 years? Or how does that typically work?
Gabriel Dzhanov: you can get it for longer. You can get it for seven, eight years. We prefer to be on a five year, uh, amortization. So five years we pay 'em off. Uh, but you can, you can, you can get it for a longer period of time. You can also lease him. Uh, that, that might, might make sense, uh, for, for some people. For us it didn't make sense because leasing is like $10,000 for your truck note
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Dzhanov: right now, about six 60, $500.
So [00:32:00] it's a lot less versus leasing. But leasing, you can write it all off on the taxes with, uh, well, you can ride off the whole truck on the taxes. Anyway, that's, that's another huge, what is it? Uh, 10 71. 10 29. Do you, you don't remember what it is?
Lee: Uh, 1, 1 70 section 1 79. Yeah. It used to be able to write off a hundred percent. I think they, I don't know. You know, every year it changes. Um, I, I think it dropped to 80% last year, so you could write off 80% in the year that it occurred, and then you had to take the other 20% and carry it out over five, you know, five years, whatever it is.
Um, but that, that bounces around. Uh, I do know the limits last year was, was up to like 1,000,005 or something. So, I mean, theoretically you could have bought what, three of those three, four of those, uh, front load trucks,
Gabriel Dzhanov: I think, I think we want more than that. I think we want more than that. But it, it, it's, it's, once you hit that growth pattern one, once you hit the growth path, it's, it's very important to have the equipment to support it. So we, we were getting, last year was really good. Uh, especially in the front load.
We more [00:33:00] than doubled it. More than doubled it. Uh, so once you get, start getting this work, the, the, the real, real good money is in efficiency. Once you start building those routes where your truck can. Our trucks right now are about 80 stops on the busy days. 80 to 90 stops they're able to do within 12 hour period.
Uh, the guys are able to do about one 20 to one 40. They have to be closer together, so they, they spend less time driving, um, but more time actually lifting the cans and taking it to the transfer stations. Once you get to that, uh, to that efficiency, then you can make five, $6,000 per truck per day on the front load.
That that's, that's really good. That's
Lee: Wow. Yeah. That's excellent. That's excellent. Alright, so there's a, there's a lot you have just kind of given us a lot of stuff to talk about. Um, I do wanna highlight before it. Skips my, uh, mind. Um, you mentioned something early on that it sounds like you, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, you guys started in the front load [00:34:00] business.
You already had sold about $10,000 worth of work and you subbed it out to, uh, another hauler. Is that correct?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes. Yes. The
other guy, yeah.
Lee: that seems like a really good way of getting into this before you go off and you buy a, essentially what's a $500,000 truck? Um, you can, you can sub some work out to people that maybe have just been hauling and they've just kind of gotten out of the deal or never were in it in terms of trying to go out and kind of hunt for business.
So you guys theoretically could hunt for business, establish some of those relationship with the brokers, just kind of to get things going, and then that way you don't have such a big loss. Would that be a good strategy for somebody to take if they wanted to get in the front load business?
Gabriel Dzhanov: If they have somebody in their area that can do that, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Just make sure, uh, you don't want to tell 'em that, listen, I'm gonna pull this work from you in six months. It's, it's, uh, uh, but, but you do need to understand actually what happened. This guy's truck broke down, so we had to. We, we were, we had the truck, it was sitting in our yard.
We just didn't use it. So this, [00:35:00] this guy's truck broke down and sort of, we, we had to put our truck to work and that's when we started running our own truck. But, uh, it, it, it would be an amazing, uh, way, and I know, I know brokers that, that sort of act like haulers, even though they don't have any of their own equipment.
Uh, smaller brokers here in Atlanta, they use, uh, they use owner operators on the roll off side. Uh, it's a lot easier to find those. Uh, they use owner operators and then they make 20, 30% margin on top of that. And it's like, it's, they have it, they have their trucks, but they don't really have their trucks.
It's, it's somebody else's.
Lee: Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Okay, so while we're talking about trucks, I know that was your first business, so, uh, it's MIG truck sales, correct. Out of Atlanta. Uh.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Make trucks. Make trucks out online.
Lee: And you guys, I was down on your yard. I don't know, it was a month ago. And I, I remember seeing at least three or four, uh, front load trucks and, and probably as many, if not more, on the roll off side.
Do you guys kind of consistently have inventory available [00:36:00] for sale down there?
Gabriel Dzhanov: We do, we do. And I, I like to have trucks available. If we, we, we, we bidding on a lot of contracts and a lot of those contracts are basically, you never know if they're gonna come through or not. Uh, you hope for the best. But, uh, some of those contracts when they come through and they give you only 30 days and you have to put a truck on the road, uh, more equipment on the road, it's best to have it.
Uh, we also, in the past three years, there was a shortage of new equipment.
So what I started doing is I started ordering more than I needed, and I. Figured out I could sell it for profit. So that's why we, we have 'em in stock now. If we don't use it, we can sell it and make a little bit of money. It, it became the, the roll offs became way more available now, so you can get 'em for a lot better prices than what it was a year ago.
A year ago. Uh, Mac granites, uh, roll offs, they were almost $300,000. I sold one, uh, a couple weeks ago. Uh, actually right before, right before New Year, uh, I sold one for 2 64 FET [00:37:00] included. So that's 35 to almost 35, $40,000 savings compared to what it was a year, year and a half ago. So the prices are right, uh, to buy new equipment right now, uh, it's, it's not inflated, uh, as, as of January of 2025.
The prices are very, very good.
Lee: So while we're talking about equipment, if somebody were wanted to go off and start a roll off business, what kind of truck would you recommend 'em to get? You've already said new, but what type of
Gabriel Dzhanov: We, we, we got our first two trucks were Volvos. We got Volvos, VVNL, uh, Volvo. Sorry, not, not VNL. We got, uh, Volvo trucks. Uh, Volvo and Mac. They're sort of sister trucks. Volvo owns Mac. Uh, basically same engine. You can pick a transmission Volvo or a Mac, uh, Volvo. Sorry, Volvo or Allison. We got the Volvo transmission, which is not as desirable, but it's 10,000 or $12,000 cheaper.
It's also was the only option available on the ground when we bought 'em. Uh, Allison's usually a general, uh, generally better transmission to purchase for automatic trucks. Uh, I [00:38:00] go with the lowest price truck. To me, they all do the same work. Uh, you can buy a Freightliner M two for $210,000. That's today's prices.
Once again with FET included. Or you can buy a Mag granite for $265,000. They will do the same job. Uh, freight liners. Uh, it, uh, very, very important is where you at, what kind of, uh, support you have around you, what kind of dealership you have around you. So, uh, if you, if you don't have any mag dealers, you only have a freight liner dealer and the, the closest Mac dealer is a hundred miles away, uh, I would not have even considered buying Mac because Freightliner is right there.
Uh, parts, uh, whatever warranty work needs to be done, that's also very important.
Lee: So you're talking about a 25% price difference there between the freight liner and the Mac. So you got basically freight liner around 200,000 Mac, around two 50, you know, give or take. Um, is the freight liner just as reliable gonna [00:39:00] last? Just as long? Like why is the, is it, why is the big price difference,
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yeah, max has a, have amazing reputation, uh, for reliability and for durability. So their, their parts are very reasonably priced as well. So if you compare them to Peter Builder, Kenworth parts are outrageous, in my opinion. Freightliner and Mac, I like their, their price point on parts is very reasonable. I don't see, we have both, we have Max and Freightliners and Peterbilts and Volvos.
I don't see that much difference. I mean, to me, they all break, they all run. Uh, they, they all, but we also, we also have newer trucks, so I, I. Uh, probably not. Um, we're probably not gonna keep 'em after five years. We're probably gonna end up selling them, trading them for new trucks. Uh, but, uh, for, for that five year while, while you have the warranty, I don't think it makes that much difference, at least from my experience it did.
Lee: Yeah, uh, that makes sense. And I mean, you've got a 50 or $60,000 is, that's a big difference. Plus, you know, if you're paying interest on it, it, it [00:40:00] compounds so you've got a lot of repair expense or whatever, uh, that you've got some extra built in there. If the Freightliner, you have to work on a little bit more, but you, you're not even saying you necessarily have to, but you've got a lot of extra kind of, uh, in reserves there to do that.
Gabriel Dzhanov: So also the, the warranty work, a lot of the things that could be easily fixed with our mechanics on site if we take it, uh.
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Dzhanov: for example, the peer build. I know here in Atlanta, at least once again, for now, the way they look, they, they're super busy. You're gonna take the truck there, it's gonna sit there for a couple of days before they even put their hands on it.
With Freightliner and with Mac. They can, they can do it next day or day after next. I think Mac is the, the best as far as, uh, service. But a lot of things, we don't even take it to a dealer, we just fix it in house, even though the truck comes with the warranty. But we don't have time for that. You don't want to, you don't want your truck to sit, you want your truck to make a, a, you know, run every day as much as possible.
Lee: So on the roll off trucks, what are the things that you see break the most often?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, brake most often, I mean, uh, it's, it's mostly on the, on the [00:41:00] hoist, on the system. Uh, a lot of things are being damaged, the tarping system. Uh, so a lot of mechanical damages, basically, he run into something or he backed into something. Uh, so, uh. Hydraulic cylinders, if you're not careful, uh, they, they start leaking.
If you hit it, they start leaking. Uh, so it's you, you must have a mechanic or somebody that you trust when, when you're just starting out, you can hire a third party company, but when you have 3, 4, 5 trucks, you must have a mechanic. Another thing that's very important that they have a tire guy, uh, trucks that roll off trucks, they're tires.
I mean, we change tires every day. We have a full-time tire, bra, tire guy. That's, that's what he does. He checks every truck once they come back from work. Uh, he stays here until seven or 8:00 PM every day to make sure all the trucks are ready for the next day.
Lee: So that, that's, uh, a great point you just brought up because we, we've got access to a mechanical on our trucks here and we certainly go through [00:42:00] tires and all, but I don't think it's anything. Uh, kinda like yours. And it's also, you know, these junk trucks, you can go to a lot of different tire stores and the tires are fairly common size so you can get 'em worked on.
But your stuff, uh, there's only a few places that can actually do that. So you're saying, make sure I heard this correctly, or sometime around three or four trucks you need to get a mechanic and maybe a mechanic can also be your tire guy or you need both.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yeah. I mean, you can start out with one guy that can do both. Uh, then you can, I think that's what we did. We had, uh, one guy that did both. We did sub it out. You know, people get sick. So we had another company nearby that we could take the truck to, and the guys knew the procedures of what to do. It was, they start really early.
They start at five o'clock in the morning. So if they come in. And the guy was not here to fix the tires the day before, and they see there is a flat, they just go the, to the, to the tire shop that opens at 7:00 AM and they wait there for the guys to get it and then so they can start working.
Lee: Neat. Alright, so let's, uh, shift over into the front load side of things and talk about the equipment [00:43:00] there. Which trucks do you, I. Do you carry, do you use, do you typically recommend, and, uh, talk a little bit about kind of the containers and all to get off on the front lights, front load side as well?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So we, we, drivers love Max, uh, max are probably more reliable. Uh, the service is, uh, amazing here in Atlanta. The, the service at NextTran Place is really good. Uh, the parts are widely available. If you need anything, you can call 'em and get the parts right away. We have, we have battles and we have Max. We have.
Four max and two battle trucks, one battle truck that we just added, uh, battle. On the other hand, they use Cummins Engine and Allison Transmission. Uh, you can get, you can source the parts from many different places when it comes to Cummins. Uh, but it's, it's not as reliable and, and parts supply was not as good as, as with Max, the drivers don't like the battles because they're, the cabs are a bit wider, so it's harder and, and [00:44:00] tighter.
Some, some areas that are tighter, it's harder to get into them. So we, you want to make sure that some of the drivers that we, we had, they didn't last, but they were like, I would not drive this truck. You know, that that's not what she's used to driving. And, and, and, uh, we, we had to hire another guy, driver that, that would be okay with driving that.
So Max is more conventional. I would say that's what everybody wants, as most of the guys know. And I also like their price point. Their price point is better than peer build. Uh, you, you, you don't have as many options on, um, on the front load trucks as you do on the roll offs. You have Peterbilt, you have Mac Battle, and I think that's it.
Uh, that's it. The Macs, the Macs are the most reliable in, in my opinion and most desired.
Lee: And the, you said the drivers prefer 'em the most. What is, uh, getting drivers like now? Is it, is it really competitive? Or if you need to hire a new trash truck driver, can you just put an add out and you have somebody later that afternoon? What's it like,
Gabriel Dzhanov: It's, it's, sometimes [00:45:00] we hope, we hope that we don't need that. Uh, but, but we try to, we do hire the, I mean, we, we do have, uh, drivers that come and go. Uh, the biggest thing is when the driver. Create, you know, damages, something, you wanna start paying a lot closer attention to what he's doing, how he's driving, and sometimes you have to let him go because of that.
Uh, the driving, hiring, hiring drivers right now, it's easier than what it was two, three years ago, uh, over the road. And, and I know that because I'm in the trucking business, uh, cell trucks over the road used to pay a lot better than what it pays now. So a lot of, uh, roll off, uh, garbage truck drivers, they went over the road to make 10, 15, $20,000 a month compared to what they make here in the, uh, here in town.
But it, it's, it's gotten. It gotten a lot worse. So they came back and they, they're doing that job. We only hire guys that have like, experience at least three, four, or five years of experience. Prefer them, them more than better. Uh, [00:46:00] we have one week of training before they can be, um, themselves on the truck.
Uh, I mean, they're the biggest, the biggest thing that can mess up our company is the insurance. If the insurance would not insurance for next year. And it can only happen because of too much damages that we're causing, uh, if the insurance would not insurance for next year. Basically, out of the business
Lee: So, um, what are you typically having to pay drivers in, in your particular market?
Gabriel Dzhanov: we pay, I, I consider that we pay really well compared to some other smaller companies. Uh, as we are, we pay, uh, we pay salary on the front load. We pay them 1750 a week
Lee: Okay.
Gabriel Dzhanov: and then we pay, we start, we start the guys out at $18 an hour on the, on the roll off. For a first week, that's when they basically drive with another person in the truck.
Uh, then we, we raise a 22, 24, 28. But we we're considering of actually going away from that. We're considering [00:47:00] also setting them on per day, per day, per week, uh, type of deal. Same as with a front load. I think the more, the more stability they have and understanding of how much money they're gonna make, it's gonna be easier to retain the drivers.
Lee: And how long are they typically staying with you now? What's your average employment
Gabriel Dzhanov: I have guys that's been with us for three years. I mean, we have, we have guys that's been here for a long time.
Lee: Yeah. That's good. Well, it sounds like your front load guys are making, some of those guys are making what, 80, $80,000 a year? Somewhere in that range. So I mean, it's, it's pretty good money. And like you said, it's not over the road.
You're, you're home every night,
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yeah.
Lee: so that's pretty good. Okay. Um, and, and we did briefly talk about insurance before you just mentioned it again. What is it typically. Uh, if you could estimate, let's say you have a two truck operation, you're just getting started. You have a two truck operation you're in, let's say it's in Atlanta.
'cause it does vary depending on the area. If you wanna start out with that a million dollar policy that you were talking about [00:48:00] and the other limits that you have, what might somebody spend on insurance?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Uh, for us it was a about $2,500 per truck. Once again, it's full coverage on the new truck. Uh, on the, I think in the beginning it was less. That's what the price is today. Uh, and then it will, it will vary depending on what area of town you're at. We're downtown, so I, I, I would think it's also higher price because of that.
Lee: Yeah.
Gabriel Dzhanov: we're located downtown Atlanta. If you're located north of Atlanta, uh, it's probably would be cheaper, uh, depending on where your business is located. I mean, there are a lot of variables. We, we have to make sure the drivers have very good records. Zero, you know, zero incidents. Some of the drivers that might have had some incidents, they, they might add to your insurance, uh, because they're higher risk.
Lee: Yeah. And honestly 2,500 a month on insurance. You haven't looked at, well, I guess you probably have, you've looked at, uh, some junk removal insurance recently. 'cause you sell those trucks. There's guys paying like, that are just getting started. They're paying like close to [00:49:00] 1500 to $2,000 a month on a $70,000 truck.
So if you're telling me for a 2,500 a month, you can get a, uh, I don't if that was the roll off, but if it was the roll off for 250,000, that, that, that seems pretty reasonable.
Gabriel Dzhanov: It is also professional drivers. It's also
Lee: big deal. Yeah.
Gabriel Dzhanov: commercial license. So I think it's, uh, it's, it's a big difference between the, the non CDL and the CDL. The, the, the insurance wants to see it. It probably, if you hire a CDL driver, it might, it might bring it down the, I'm not sure. I've never tried that, but.
Lee: Uh, well I think the problem is, is the industry, the junk removal industry is they tear up a lot of stuff. So, and speaking with Toby Stubbs from Wisdom Insurance. Um, this was maybe two or three years ago, but he was talking about the amount of premiums that the junk removal co uh, companies brought to the insurance companies.
They paid out like 20% more than what they actually brought in, and that's when the rates started going up. And it's just [00:50:00] because we, we hire such inexperienced drivers on average, and nobody really monitors 'em or trains them or anything so that the rates are way jacked up. So on the roll off business and the trash, uh, front load side of things, you've got those experienced CDL drivers, they don't tear up near as much stuff.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Do you have cameras in your trucks?
Lee: Yeah. And we do. What do you, what are you guys using?
Gabriel Dzhanov: I don't, I don't know the system we're using, but we do have the, the camera that looks inside and outside, uh, and it's actually saved us on, on a few occasions to where the, the driver had an accident and the, the. Somebody was blaming us. It's, it's always the bigger, bigger truck, bigger vehicle that's, that's at fault.
But, uh, we were able to pull the videos and send it to the police basically on site. And, uh, that that got us out.
Lee: Unfortunately, a lot of times in the junk removal industry, the drivers are actually the ones at fault. 'cause you got like 20, 21-year-old, 19-year-old drivers or whatever. They've never driven anything like that. I think it has gotten better. Basically it had to, 'cause the insurance got so much more expensive that people started [00:51:00] paying more attention to it.
But the rates haven't come down yet, so I'm sure it'll be several years. I, I'm sure they'll never come down.
Gabriel Dzhanov: We had an.
Lee: won't continue going up.
Gabriel Dzhanov: I, I don't think they're coming down either. I, the, the, we had a 20 something percent increase from last year to this year. We had to, we had to get our deductible to $5,000 per occurrence, uh, to where it was like 2000 or 25. So basically e every time even something small happens, we have to pay out of pocket until it reaches the $5,000.
But we still had about 18, 20, I think 20% increase, uh, from last year to this year. So it's, once again, it's, it's one of those expenses, uh, that, that you cannot do anything about with drivers. Uh, you can try to find cheaper drivers. You can find, try to, you know, not to overpay the overtime. You can, uh, limit there to 45, 50 hours, whatever it is.
With insurance, it is what it is. You can't really do anything about it.
Lee: Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's get back into, um, talking about kind of the business [00:52:00] side of things. We've talked a lot about the equipment, which is great. I enjoy talking about that. Um, but on the business side of things, let's start with on, on the roll off. Let's explore the roll off side. A lot of guys, that's what they look at getting into, you know, the, the front load stuff. It's a lot larger barrier to entry. I think a lot of people don't even really think about it as much. It's pretty capital intensive. I still do wanna talk about that, but let's start talking about the roll off side. 'cause I think people's natural incl inclination is oftentimes to start with smaller bins.
So you go off and you get your 10 or 15 yarders, maybe a 20 yard or something, and you get a smaller truck. And I, the reason they do that is 'cause they feel safer in going that route. It's less money. Do you feel like that's a good strategy to kind of get going? Or do you feel like they should, uh, just kind of bite the bullet and take a risk and, and go big?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So we had, we had few people that you guys actually referred to me that called me and asked me about getting a Tandem X. So they, they didn't ask about it tandem. They were asking about what to get hook or, or a cable.
Lee: Yep.
Gabriel Dzhanov: [00:53:00] Uh, and they were always trying to get a single axle. Don't get in a single axle. I mean, the side of business that we're after that I'm trying to grow is more of a permanent side, more of a commercial customers.
Uh, not, it's not a hundred percent tandem axle. Some of those areas will require, uh, a single axle truck, but it's, it's very minimal. And, uh, with a single axle truck. Have you ever had a switch and go, have you, have you ever had something that you cannot pick up?
Lee: We, we had a switch and go one time. Um, is the only truck we've ever, uh, it is the only like detachable system we've ever owned. Uh, it's also the only truck that I've ever sold within, like the first year or two that we had it, I wasn't a huge fan of it. Um, uh, our guys, they would line, they, somehow or another, they'd line it up wrong and the winch cable would kind of get bound up and I mean, one time they, it broke.
Yeah. I mean, one time they didn't line line it up right at all and the bin almost fell off the side of the truck. I mean, it's user error, but [00:54:00] it's, it's the type of people we have and it's the type of stuff that we encounter. And I don't believe you really face that with roll off and hook lifts as much.
Gabriel Dzhanov: So yes and no. Uh, because if they overload it, if it's a, if it's, even if it's a 10 yard dumpster that's filled to the top with concrete or dirt, you can have 15, 15 tons there. And if you only have a hook lift that's a single axle that's rated for 12 tons, you're not able to pick it up. The hooks are better, hooks are better with weight, uh, compared to the, the, the cables.
But, uh, just because the way they pick 'em up, it's, it's, it works better, uh, to get something that's overloaded on compared to the cable. But still, uh, I would always go bigger. To where you are not in a situation where you cannot pick it up. So tandem Axel, uh, 66,000, uh, or 60,000 or 70,000 cable or hook, that, that's what I would do.
But once again, my, my concentration, the way I want to grow my [00:55:00] business is towards the commercial. It's not towards the residential. I don't want somebody that's doing his kitchen renovation and just gonna get one dumpster. I want to add the repeat business I want to add to where I know this customer is set and I can work more on getting more customers growing my business.
Lee: Yeah. And we're in the junk space, you know, it's 80% of our business is residential, and I know that's one of the reasons you got out of it. Um, and great margins in junk. Uh, you've got good solid margins in dumpsters too. The predictability is nice in dumpsters for sure. Um, you're still doing the residential work.
I know that's a lot of the stuff that, uh, we send you through JRA digital is on the, is on the, the residential side, but you do get some commercial as well. Um, so the companies, you're using the commercial side, they mainly want larger containers. Is that right On the roll off, roll off
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's 20, 30 forties some compactors, some self-contained compactors. It's, it's mostly bigger ones. Some of the competition here, they also do 10, 15 yards. The [00:56:00] smaller cans, we don't do it. Uh, we basically, if it's somebody that's doing a concrete or a dirt job and they know it's gonna be heavy, we just tell 'em a 20 yard, don't fill it up, you know, only fill it up the halfway.
So that's where you get below 10,000, 10 tons. Uh, and it's still the ot legal for the truck to be on the road.
Lee: Excellent. Alright. So definitely you, you would say they need, should spend the extra money because basically when they get the smaller vehicles, they're limiting themselves to mostly a residential consumer. And then also, uh, if it's overloaded, they're not gonna have a vehicle that's capable of picking it up.
So either somebody's gonna have to unload it or they're gonna have to call out like a, a, a, another, another company to, to pick the bin up or something, right?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes. But, uh, it's important to understand where you're going. It's important to understand what's, what do you want out of your business? Uh, I if you want a job to where you, you know, if you own the truck and, and you want to be able to do it yourself without a commercial license, uh, pick up dumpsters, rent dumpsters, and, and you're okay with [00:57:00] that.
Sure. That's single axle is perfect for you. A hook lift is even better when you go to single axle hooks are a lot, a lot more efficient. You don't need to get out of the truck. Uh, there are new systems that have, uh, tarping tarps that will go on the hook. Before the hooks, you would have to hand tarp it.
Now, you can use, uh, there are a couple of companies that make a tarping system that will go and who can work just fine with them. So that's, that, that will be perfect if that's, if that's what you're trying to do, if you're gonna try to grow a company, uh, that, that has a larger potential and, and possibly one day to be acquired by a bigger.
Bigger company of one of the big three or four, or even somebody that does something. But, uh, just, just want to expand into this market. Where you at and you have a good footprint in the market. You need to think of what equipment do they have, what are they using? So we had a, we had a, the, the Rain Tree guy, his name is Kevin, the guy that, uh, that, that I saw, they built company from zero to, uh, to where they got acquired by, uh, [00:58:00] Republic Waste.
I asked him one day. Why are you guys, uh, not using the hooks? Because they're so much more efficient. And basically the rest of the world, uh, you're, uh, south America, everybody's using the hooks. It's like, well, the big guys are not using them. So that's your answer. If you want one day to be, you know, somewhere with your company, uh, you have to be, uh, compatible.
Lee: so basically you need the roll off trucks just in case you ever wanna sell it. 'cause otherwise you're limiting the people that can actually buy the business because, uh, Republic or a GFL or Meridian Waste or Waste Management, they're not gonna be purchasing, uh, hook, hook, lift vehicles. They're not interested in that.
Is that right?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So yes, because it has to be, it has to be compatible to, to what they do here in Atlanta. We had a company, uh, airways that, uh, got acquired two, three years ago, and they, they had 6,000, 5,000 crazy amount of dumpsters. I mean, 40, 50, 60 trucks. I, I don't know how many exactly. Trucks, but a lot of trucks, a lot of dumpster.
They had the best prices in Atlanta. They, they got, uh, [00:59:00] acquired by, uh, venture money or something like that, and,
uh, private equity. Yep. And, uh, so they, they were not bought out by the bigger guys, in my opinion, because they were not compatible with them.
Lee: Yeah, no, I mean, it make, it makes sense. You know, they're purchasing, uh, several companies. They wanna make sure all the equipment is compatible, otherwise they're, it's logistically it's just would be very hard to manage. So that makes us a lot of sense. And I think that's a mistake a lot of people make. I mean, the hook lift technology is great, but people aren't, aren't starting with the end in mind.
And that's what you really need to, 'cause you're gonna wind up.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Lee, can I, can I break this for one minute?
Just step out. I'll be right back. Sorry.
Lee: All right.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yeah. The guys, the guys, uh, the guys that are, uh, looking at the Hino, uh, the, the junk truck, uh, they're actually Spe Landscaping Company, uh, out of Augusta. And they're, uh, wanted [01:00:00] to talk the price about buying it. I'm like, this is the best buddy you can find. So
Lee: Yeah.
Yeah. We need to keep the, keep, keep that in the show too, talking about the best body you can find, especially truck bodies
Gabriel Dzhanov: I, I, I think that they're, they're gonna take it. The two guys, uh, came here that are just going on a test drive right now to make sure everything is good and they're, they'll take itself. That's a good thing.
Lee: Awesome. That's good. That's good. Okay, so we will wrap back into, um, uh, just kinda reiterating hook, even though it's superior technology roll off is really the way to go, because if you're gonna sell your company, that's actually the people that are going to, to buy, they're gonna wanna buy roll offs 'cause that's what else they're acquiring and they don't wanna have incompatible equipment.
'cause what they're trying to do, a lot of these companies, these, especially if they're private equity, they're trying to roll these things up into a much larger entity. And then eventually they'll go off and sell it off to some fund or something like that too, potentially. So, um, that's a, that's a, it's a really great point.
I think it. Something that a lot of people don't realize. Appreciate you covering that. [01:01:00] Alright, let's roll into the, let's talk a little bit more about the front load side of things. 'cause I think that's a really neat business. It's one I haven't really thought a whole lot about. Which business, between roll off and front load do you actually prefer?
Which one do you
Gabriel Dzhanov: A lot of front load. It's got a lot more predictability. Uh, it does, it does fluctuate. So if, uh. If it's a restaurant, uh, and they do more service certain time of the year and they do less service other time of the year, they will decrease or increase the service. But it will still be there. You'll still, instead of doing it four times a week, you might do it twice a week, but you still gotta go there and it's easier to add that business and it's, it's, uh, the upside you can get with it is a lot better than in the roll off, and it's a lot more desired, uh, when the company is being acquired. Uh, from my understanding, it's a lot more desired than the roll off.
As well.
Lee: Yeah, it makes sense. It's harder to get into, but, um, because you got the $500,000 roughly expense when you first get started, what, what's the period of time generally before [01:02:00] you can become cashflow positive? So somebody wanna get in the front load business, how much capital do you think they should have kind of sitting there that they're gonna churn through when they first get started?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So whenever we bought our first two trucks, we had to put 20% down. Uh, think about 10, 20% down. That could be 45 to 90 grand just on one truck.
Uh, then the cans, I mean, 150 cans, at least, that's about 750 bucks, 800 bucks, depending on where you are. The camp prices could be different. We buy and we got a really good price because the guy we've been working with Louis Steel out of, uh, rent Georgia, they, they've been giving us really good prices and really good quality.
Uh, dumpsters. Uh, but it's, it's very important for you to buy local because the transportation might, might, might cost too much if you bring them from too far out. Uh, the, the dumpsters are on average about seven 50, a hundred dollars per dumpster. So if you do 150 of them, that's 120 grand right there. So, to [01:03:00] start with, uh, with one truck, 45, let's say 90 plus 1, 2200, 200, 200 some thousand dollars.
It's uh, also once you get, once you get the money coming in, once you get the, once you get the, uh, most of those things that are on net 30, 45 or 60, so you're gonna be behind at least 30 days on the money you're getting. But once you get that money coming in, you should be, you should be, we actually get better margins out of front load, uh, and, and we should get even better margins out of front load once we get the efficiency, once we get more pickups.
Lee: So if somebody goes out and they start, and I mean, we're doing the math there on one truck, and what we were talking about before is you really should start with two. I mean, this definitely isn't, this is, this is a game that you don't get into unless you already have some money, because I think you're setting yourself up for a lot of headache and heartache and failure if you get into into it too soon.
So if you started with two trucks, which that's what
Gabriel Dzhanov: Love that.
Lee: we, we [01:04:00] would recommend, or you would recommend, let's say roughly,
Gabriel Dzhanov: ideally, I think ideally you start off with roll off. You establish the connections. You start working with brokers, and then most of the brokers, they bid out work that you're gonna get. If you do decide, listen, I'm gonna get into a front load, right? You decide I'm gonna do it two years from three years, or whatever it is.
Six months before that, you let the brokers know that you're getting into a front load. You start bidding things out. Um, you tell 'em, this is when we start rolling. This is when we start, uh, you know, putting out the cans. We're gonna have a truck and so on by that date, if you're lucky. And if you tell 'em early enough, and I'm not sure if every area is different once again, but we were able to, to get, we were able to get over to over a hundred thousand dollars in, in monthly reoccurring, uh, in less than nine months.
Lee: Okay. Wow. That's, that's, that's, that seems solid. I mean, that's, uh, so you had a $1.2 million business in terms of a run rate within nine months.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes, yes. [01:05:00] And we had two trucks within the first year of us running. We had two trucks within the first year. So you can, depending on the density, depending on the area, you can achieve that. And, and I would recommend whatever we did, I think was very, very smart. So start with the roll off, establish the connection with the brokers, and then start bidding out and let 'em know when you're gonna do the front load.
Lee: That's, um, a really great action item there for somebody starting that I wouldn't have thought of, which is basically by beginning with the roll off one, you'll be cash flow positive sooner, but two, you're building the connections to naturally expand into the front load side with the dump with the, uh, brokers.
That's a, that's a great tip right there.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes, yes, yes.
Lee: Alright. Um, in terms of getting cashflow positive on the front load side of things, you said a hundred thousand dollars MRR by month nine. Um, what's kind of your overhead or where do you think somebody would need to get if they have two trucks in, in order to break even in terms of MRR?
Gabriel Dzhanov: We, we haven't, so we've been doing it, we've been doing it [01:06:00] for, for on the waste side for four to five years almost. Uh, we haven't taken any money out ourselves. We've basically reinvested everything back in,
Lee: You're growing at such a rate though. You're having to take that because I mean you, what'd you say you did in 2024? Revenue wise?
Gabriel Dzhanov: uh, six. It's, it's a little over six.
Lee: Yes. You're gonna wanna go to 10 this year, so you're, yeah. Yeah, you, you can't really take any out 'cause you're growing at such a rate. You're having to keep up with that growth in terms of buying more equipment, but you have a hell of an asset and that's beginning to be really worth something.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes, yes. So we, we started being positive on the, before we got into a front load. We started making some money on the, on the roll off. I think when we had four trucks,
Lee: Okay.
Gabriel Dzhanov: uh, we started making some money. Before that, we were losing money 20, $30,000 a month, sometimes more than that. Uh, once you, once you start making money, then you can start allocating that money once again.
We did not pay everything, anything ourself. So forget about paying yourself. This is a good. It's [01:07:00] investment, uh, waste Management Company is a great investment. And we were able to do that, to achieve that because we had other sources of income. The dealership actually paid me, my partner, uh, me and my partners, we all got paid, uh, for our daily life through the dealership, whatever expenses we had, whatever, whatever money the, the WG needed.
A lot of it came from MIG. A lot of it came from, uh, the dealership side. So when, whenever you start growing, you can take the money. Whenever you start making money, you can take the money from there and then start expanding. That's what, that's what we were able to do. And breaking even. I'm, I'm, I'm not, I I don't have that number for you.
Uh, you should always pay attention to your bottom line. You should always pay attention to, uh, what makes sense. We're always, um, we're always looking at our routes. We're always, uh, looking at, okay, so how we can get this price down? How is this company able to do that? For X and we're not able to do that for that.
Another thing, [01:08:00] once we got to about a hundred thousand dollars a month in, uh, in landfill, in transfer station bills, uh, with one of the, so we have GFL Republic and, uh, waste Management here in Atlanta. We mostly use Waste Management and GFL transfer stations and landfills. Once we got to about a hundred thousand with JFL, we, we made a meeting.
We, uh, with JFL and we renegotiated our rates
from $65 a ton to $52 a ton.
Lee: It's a big difference.
Gabriel Dzhanov: That's a huge difference. Uh, we, we are going to have another meeting with them this week,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Dzhanov: but we're, we're doing, we're doing closer to $200,000
Lee: Okay.
Gabriel Dzhanov: a month with them. Now that's a lot of airline points because we all credit cards.
Lee: yeah, yeah. I know, I know. And you like, you like your travel, so
Gabriel Dzhanov: I do, I do, but uh.
You can renegotiate depending on how much volume you have, you can renegotiate your contracts with a transfer station or landfills that you [01:09:00] work with.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, as you get larger, the, the, the margins start getting better in a lot of ways 'cause stuff like that. For sure. Okay, so on the, you've got the front load business, you've got the roll off business, you've got kind of the truck dealership. I know you're somebody that always kind of looks forward and you're always kind of got your eyes open for opportunities and you've kind of got a plan in mind.
What's your plan for the next three to five years with your business?
Gabriel Dzhanov: So for wg, we're looking to, uh, we're looking at several options right now. Looking at, uh, the transfer station, uh, the. Uh, the bot, the bottom level would increase probably from if, if you're making 18%. And, uh, first time I heard that number was a, a waste expo. Uh, we talked to someone at, uh, GFL and he told us about the numbers.
Uh, if you're looking, if you're making 18%, uh, for the waste company, you're doing really well.
Lee: Okay.
Gabriel Dzhanov: So, really well, if you have a transfer station and you can minimize [01:10:00] your landfill, uh, cost, you can get it up to even higher. We have a company here in Atlanta and they're like 26, 20 8% per
every month. So when you process your trash, you can separate the concrete, the wood, the, the MSW, uh, is the household trash.
So for example, if you have five trash bags of MSW and the rest of it is, uh. Construction debris. If you have five trash bags and you take it to a landfill, they would load you back and send you to a transfer station. The price difference is double compared to, uh, compared to c and d construction debris to MSW to household trash.
So if you can avoid that by separating the trash yourself before you take it to a landfill, and also you can make one dumpster out of three or four forties, uh, three or four 30 yards, you can make one 40 yard,
Lee: Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Dzhanov: send it to the [01:11:00] landfill. Uh, you will save on transportation. Your trucks will become a lot more efficient.
So this would be our next step of, uh, of, of, of expansion. I think we will have enough volume by the end of this year, next year to support running a transfer station. Transfer station is probably a couple years, couple years in the works, and the hardest part is getting a permit and license for it too.
Once again, I, I have not done that yet, so that's gonna be something we're gonna be, uh, looking to do in the next year or two.
Lee: Wow, that's, that's excellent. Very, it's ambitious and I think it's, uh, it's something that's really gonna allow you to grow a lot. So I look forward to seeing that come together. Alright, so, uh, we're kind of heading towards the wrap on the show here. Uh, what I'd love to ask you is, you know, I've asked you several questions and all, and we've had a really good conversation.
Are there things that I haven't asked you? Is there something I haven't asked you that you think would be beneficial for somebody looking to either get started or to grow a business to your size?
Gabriel Dzhanov: Whoever, whoever's trying to get into it, ask questions, talk to people. Uh, you, I mean, my, my email is [01:12:00] manager@w.com. You guys can email me. Uh, you had an idea of doing classes, which I think is great. If I, if I had a chance of attending a class that would teach me what I know today, uh, that, that would make my life a lot easier from the beginning.
Once again, you don't, you don't know anything when, once you're getting into it and, and. Some people are willing to share their knowledge. Some are not. Some people are not comfortable asking questions, you know? Uh, so, so, but you have to, you have to. It's, it's a very expensive game to play without knowing anything.
Lee: Yeah. Yeah. That's excellent. So thank you for sharing your contact information there. Um. Hopefully you'll get a few people that, uh, will reach out. Maybe you guys can make some connections there in terms of classes. Yeah, I'd love to continue talking to you about that. I think that could be a really good partnership and be very valuable to, to, to people as well.
Um, the Waste Con is, I believe it's May 6th through eighth. I'm trying to remember exactly 'cause I know, uh, we just bought tickets for it yesterday and we're gonna be there at least a few days. So, uh, if any of you guys are gonna come [01:13:00] to the event, any of our watchers, then uh, feel free to email me at, uh, info@junkarray.com and we can, uh, maybe link up.
I think that'd be great. I know Gabriel will see you there and, uh, I'm really looking forward to it.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Yes. Yes, definitely. We'll see you there. It's, it's a, it's a good, good place to meet a lot of, uh, people that's been in the industry for a long time last year. Last year we met, uh, once again, I'm, I'm more on the trucking side. A lot of the connections that I have there is through the truck sales. Uh, we met a Mcne guy that, the Mcne, they do garbage trucks.
He, he sold his company, now he started another company that also do garbage trucks. That guy is a legend. I mean, what he's done for the industry and the trucks that he made, it's crazy. And everybody, all the CEOs, all, you know, the big shots, they're all there. You can talk to anyone you want. Uh, very, very good place to be.
So I would, I would highly recommend if anyone is considering even getting into, uh, the waste industry. Go meet people, see what's going on there. Uh, you know, [01:14:00] it's, it's a good place to, to be.
Lee: Well, great guys. Well again, this is Gabriel from WG Waste. Uh, in the description, if you're watch it on YouTube or uh, I guess on some of the podcast channels that this is gonna be distributed on, we're going to get his information for mig truck sales out there. Uh, he provided his email address too, if you guys want to reach out to him.
It sounds like he's open to that, which is great. And Gabriel, thanks for being the very first guest on the Waste Warriors Podcast.
Gabriel Dzhanov: I'm honored. Thank you for having me as a first guest.
Lee: All right everybody, so please subscribe to the channel and we look forward to seeing you guys for episode number two. Gabriel, we'll see you at Waste Con. I'm sure we'll talk to you before then.
Gabriel Dzhanov: Take care, Lee. Take care.[01:15:00]