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🎙️ Therapists React to Casey Neistat’s 10 Tips for a Successful Relationship - Lion Counseling Podcast Episode #90
What does it actually take to make a marriage last?
In Episode 90 of the Lion Counseling Podcast, therapists Mark Odland and Zack Carter react to Casey and Candice Neistat's "10 Tips for a Successful Relationship" — and explore where their advice lines up with what we see in the therapy room…and where things get more complicated.
Casey and Candice talk candidly about marriage counseling, nearly getting divorced, maintaining independence, respecting each other's pet peeves, letting the little things go, and remembering what brought you together in the first place.
Mark and Zack dig deeper into questions like:
✅ How much "work" should a healthy marriage actually require?
✅ Is marriage counseling really like arguing with a referee?
✅ How do you maintain your individuality without becoming disconnected from your spouse?
✅ When does accommodating a spouse become enabling or losing your backbone?
✅ Why can small disagreements become emotionally charged?
✅ What does forgiveness actually require?
✅ Can looking back at old memories genuinely change how you feel about your spouse today?
✅ And for driven, high-achieving people: what are you ultimately working so hard for if you miss the people you're working for?
✅ Is marriage counseling really like arguing with a referee?
✅ How do you maintain your individuality without becoming disconnected from your spouse?
✅ When does accommodating a spouse become enabling or losing your backbone?
✅ Why can small disagreements become emotionally charged?
✅ What does forgiveness actually require?
✅ Can looking back at old memories genuinely change how you feel about your spouse today?
✅ And for driven, high-achieving people: what are you ultimately working so hard for if you miss the people you're working for?
They also discuss attachment, emotional escalation during conflict, contempt, appreciation, grace, forgiveness, and the importance of remembering that life is short.
Casey and Candice aren't presenting themselves as relationship experts — and that's part of what makes the conversation interesting. Their advice comes from actually living through the messiness of a long-term relationship. Mark and Zack bring a therapist's perspective to their ideas while also reflecting on their own experiences as husbands and fathers.
If you're married, in a serious relationship, or trying to balance ambition with being fully present for the people you love, this conversation is for you.
💬 What relationship advice has actually made a difference in your marriage? Let us know in the comments.
🌐 Lion Counseling:
https://escapethecagenow.com/
https://escapethecagenow.com/
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⚠️ DISCLAIMER
The Lion Counseling Podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for psychotherapy, medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. Watching or listening to this podcast does not establish a therapist-client relationship with Mark Odland, Zack Carter, or Lion Counseling.
#Marriage #Relationships #CaseyNeistat #MarriageAdvice #CouplesTherapy #RelationshipAdvice #MentalHealth #MensMentalHealth #LionCounseling
Creators and Guests
What is Lion Counseling Podcast?
The Lion Counseling Podcast helps men escape the cages that hold them back and become the Lions they were created to be. It exists to help men obtain success, purpose, happiness, and peace in their career and personal lives. The podcast is hosted by the founder of Lion Counseling, Mark Odland (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Certified EMDR Therapist), and Zack Carter (Counselor and Coach with Lion Counseling). In their podcasts, they address a variety of topics relevant to men, including: mental health, relationships, masculinity, faith, success, business, and self-improvement.
Welcome to the Lion Counseling Podcast. Today, we're reacting to the popular YouTuber, Casey Neistad, and his 10 tips for a successful relationship.
Casey Neistat:We could do this. Right?
Candace Neistat:10. Fine. Just 10.
Casey Neistat:Well, I think Can I do number one? Mhmm. For the 10 tips? No. You have to focus here, Candice.
Casey Neistat:Number one for the 10 tips is you have to spend time alone together. Together.
Candace Neistat:There's no focus on each other when we're not alone. It focuses on everything else.
Casey Neistat:See, that's good. Okay. What's the hardest part of a long relationship?
Candace Neistat:Not getting Not not thinking that all the things that were charming when you first met are not still charming. Maybe that's
Casey Neistat:the I think that counts.
Candace Neistat:So like the things that you think are cute with me, you still think are cute. You're not like, oh my god, that.
Casey Neistat:I still think you're cute. Mhmm. I've got a very unsexy one, but it's a very big one. You have to be patient. What, you think it's generic?
Casey Neistat:What? What's wrong? That's a really good one.
Candace Neistat:I know, but you're coming up with tips for things that we aren't really good at doing.
Casey Neistat:Well, here Yes, we are.
Candace Neistat:You think we're patient with each other?
Casey Neistat:No. We almost got divorced seven months ago. And if there wasn't any patience there, any resolve by either us to be like, alright, let's just chill out for like five minutes and try to figure this out. That's patience.
Zack Carter:Alright, Mark. We got three tips right there. We had be patient with each other was the last one. We had Cuteness,
Mark Odland:like the little things that attracted you at the beginning.
Zack Carter:Do they
Mark Odland:still attract you? Or
Zack Carter:Yeah. Make sure make sure to take time to speak with each other. K? So we're we're three into 10. How are you feeling so far?
Zack Carter:What are your thoughts?
Mark Odland:I mean, they're fun to watch. You know, there's, this authenticity. I mean, it's kinda like you get the sense, like, yeah. Are they mental health experts? No.
Mark Odland:Not at all. And yet, is it compelling? It is. Like, they've lived through it. So, like, my mind at first was like, man, they almost got divorced seven months ago.
Mark Odland:Is he being sarcastic? Is he being is that true? I mean, that's intense. Like, should you be giving marriage advice if you're almost but in a way, maybe yes. Maybe that you've learned something through that experience that is worth holding on to.
Mark Odland:I also saw a little something I liked in there where you know how he dodged the question a little bit where she's like, well, do you still think the things that I used to do are cute? Are you are they still cute? He didn't actually answer her question. He said, you're still cute.
Zack Carter:I didn't catch that, but whenever I watched it, I kinda had the same feeling you did, whereas, like, was just like, smooth. He's done Honey. Thing.
Mark Odland:You're still cute, but but he's getting to the heart of the question. Right? He's there's, like, a deeper truth. He's like, what is she really asking? And he kind of knows her well enough to know that's what she needs to hear.
Zack Carter:Yeah. I don't have I don't have much complaints on be sure to take time to hang out with each other. I think it's well documented that, like, making sure you're dating and spending time together is a good call. I don't know, man. I like, I'm five years into my marriage, seven years in my relationship.
Zack Carter:And so I don't think I'm as far in as them. I know I'm not as far in as you. I can't think of things that I I thought were cute when we were dating that I no longer think are cute about my wife. Like, I like, I really like her, like, as a person. Not just love her, but, like, I just, like, like her.
Zack Carter:But but so far, not I'm not pushing back quite yet.
Mark Odland:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it seems pretty safe pretty safe topics. I mean, who would say you shouldn't be patient? I mean, the only edge to that would be if patience equals being a doormat in a relationship.
Mark Odland:For sure. Then you you might need to stand up for yourself a little bit more. And sometimes over time people do I mean, the core of your personality is usually stays kind of the same, but you do kind of evolve as a person over time in a marriage and you might have certain things that you become a little more blunt with a little more opinionated about you might know yourself a little bit more and so yeah. We'll keep going.
Candace Neistat:It's okay. This is the big one. That it's really, like, obtuse in its concept, but it's really important. And it's work. Like tips six through 10, what are we on?
Candace Neistat:Four through 10?
Casey Neistat:But you can't, then there's Look at this whole thing, it says 10 tips. Okay, but you You can't use up all six of them.
Candace Neistat:Let's change it. Making time for yourself, that takes work. Finding each other is still funny. It actually does take work because you have to like train your brain to be like, that was cute when we first met, means it's still cute now. Instead of being annoyed.
Candace Neistat:It takes work to not being annoyed. It takes work to be patient.
Casey Neistat:We go to marriage counseling, and I think people who don't understand therapy or have never experienced therapy, they think of it as like this heavy thing. This is what marriage counseling is. It's fighting with a referee who's smarter than both of you. Right? And then you leave and you're like, that made sense.
Casey Neistat:And usually the ref doesn't pick a winner. It just helps you understand what the two of you are fighting over.
Candace Neistat:Right. And if you don't want to put in the work, then don't be in a relationship. Someone very close to me, my father, just told me that if he had to do it all over again, he would be a bachelor because it's too hard to be married and have kids.
Casey Neistat:Her dad literally said this weekend, if I could do it over again, I wouldn't have he said this to his daughter.
Candace Neistat:He said he'd sail and he'd get a new Porsche every year and his life would be easy.
Mark Odland:Oh, man. Yeah. Well, they're right. Marriage marriage definitely is work. Even if you love and like your spouse, it's definitely work.
Mark Odland:Two complex people trying to join a life together with their own different styles of upbringing, their own gifts, their own talents, their own insecurities, their own trauma. Yeah. There yeah. It definitely takes work. And it's kinda like that, that sense of, like, what is love.
Mark Odland:Right? Love is not just a feeling. It's a choice. Right? And, and if you're for those who are really taking that idea of marriage as a covenant through a faith lens seriously, it's like the choice till death you part.
Mark Odland:So there's no there's no, like, easy way out of it. You gotta you gotta work it out. I know that we live in a tough world where it doesn't always always work out that way. But but, yeah, it's the only thing I disagree with her about though is I don't think you just have to work at finding someone funny. I think, like, I feel like laughter is spontaneous, and it's, like, a really honest expression of what what you just react to.
Zack Carter:So if she has
Mark Odland:to work to be like, oh, that was a lame joke. Oh, wait. Now how do I tell myself something to make him oh, that was funny. I took work.
Zack Carter:Like, that didn't that didn't quite compute for me. I'm not sure what the whole story the whole story is there. So for me personally, I felt like dating in the first year of marriage was the most work. Like, felt like I had to put in the work on the front end.
Casey Neistat:Mhmm.
Zack Carter:And then we figured out communication. We figured out how to fight in a appropriate and a healthy way. We learned how to disagree in a healthy way. We learned how to compromise. And while there have been times where we may get into an argument, it feels like it's like fewer and far between and it's less intense.
Zack Carter:Like the intensity of the arguments have gone down and the frequency have gone down. And I'm not saying that's every marriage or that we are the standard of marriage. I'm definitely not saying that. But like, yeah, I mean, they they put so much emphasis on it and I'm like, well, but like, isn't it like part of it like, fun? Isn't it, like, kind of also you've got your Yeah.
Zack Carter:It's like your cheerleader as you're doing really hard things. Like, my wife is encouraging me on this part of my work. And then, you know, I go and show her. I'm like, oh, look at this thing that I did. She's she's like, oh, man.
Zack Carter:You're doing awesome, babe. And so, like, it's also that, and that's not really work. Like, that's enjoyable.
Mark Odland:I mean and that's and that's the thing too. Right? Like, the times when I've done premarital counseling with couples, it's like, yes. It should take work, but sometimes you're like, not that much work. Like, this is this is the beginning.
Mark Odland:This is, like, where you're supposed to be excited to, like, spend your life together. And if it takes that much work right now, like, not that it's a deal breaker, but there has to be enough compatibility. I mean, the same could be said for a career. Right? A career takes a lot of work.
Mark Odland:But if you're passionate about it, if you enjoy it, if you find purpose, you should, you know, you should be lucky, blessed enough, hopefully, to actually enjoy it too.
Zack Carter:What do you think about therapy being two people show up to argue and they have a referee that doesn't take sides, but calls balls and strikes? Like, what do you think about that analogy?
Mark Odland:I think it's pretty on point, honestly. I mean, at least at least the way that I operate with marriage counseling because I find that the biggest thing that sabotages couples is when they emotionally escalate during hard conversations. And so they become defensive. Their nerve nervous systems get all jacked up. It's never productive.
Mark Odland:They never leave feeling loved or understood, and so we create a new experience for them. Right? You set the ground rules. I literally tell them I'm the referee. Mhmm.
Mark Odland:And I'm not gonna shame you if you make a mistake, but we are gonna get I'm gonna I'm gonna call time out. We're gonna get back on track here. Mhmm. And, and surprise, surprise, you know, they actually follow the rules.
Casey Neistat:Mhmm.
Mark Odland:And they're like, woah. Our two hour argument was actually fifteen minutes long, and we both feel calm inside. And, yeah, we didn't solve it completely, but I actually kinda feel like you heard me for the first time in weeks, months, and that feels pretty good. Lastly, number six.
Zack Carter:If you had to do it all over again, don't get married or have kids. And I'm not saying they're saying, but it's just an interesting little thing put in there on her on her father.
Mark Odland:Honestly, I just I just kinda wanna call her dad a jerk. Just be like, dude, what a sorry. Daughter. What what an idiot. Like, are you I don't know what it is because I like philosophy and theology.
Mark Odland:There's something about the thought process where people wanna just undo their whole life and pretend like it's better as though you're not, like, looking at the people in front of you that exist because of you. Like, you're literally saying, I would take this easy path, and I would rather have you not exist. And maybe in their mind they're like, well, that's not what I'm saying. Like, I wouldn't even know that you would have existed because I would have been sailing. Like, she's right here.
Mark Odland:Yeah. Your literal daughter is right here and you're saying you would undo her if you could go back in a time machine and make a different choice. I'm not
Zack Carter:saying I've never owned a Porsche. I'm sure it's fun. But at the same time, you know, having you know, my daughter's like 18 now. Yeah. And having her where she starts crying in her crib at night, and I just bring her into bed with me, and she just, like, wraps her arms around me and falls asleep on me.
Zack Carter:Like, I've driven a Porsche before. I've rented one, driven one. That feeling of her, like, wrapping her arms around me felt way better than the Porsche.
Mark Odland:Oh, man. Yeah. For sure. For sure. I mean, it's it's so cool you say that because, like, my kids are a little older than than than yours right now.
Mark Odland:But my youngest is is still seven. And, we were talking before the video about these exciting, physical challenges we're embarking on recently. Stay tuned everyone because there might be some YouTube videos coming, some podcasts around this subject, But I was doing some of my training with a a ruck backpack on, heavy backpack. Mhmm. And I had it all set in my mind, Zack.
Mark Odland:I'm like, I'm gonna do my four miles after I timed it out. I did the map right after church. I've got my backpack in the car. You're gonna drop me off, honey, right here, and I'm gonna walk home. And then we're in the car and in front of our seven year old, she says, so Jack, what were you thinking?
Mark Odland:Did you decide if you want to walk with daddy or not? And I'm like, well I don't like things that expectations change quickly, you know, it goes against my plan, right? And so I got kind of mad, right? Marriage test, right? I got kind of mad and I'm thinking there's no way he's gonna keep up with me, what is this gonna be about, he's gonna have to go to the bathroom, he's gonna get thirsty, all this stuff.
Mark Odland:And then I took some deep breaths and I'm like, okay this is my son who might actually be tough enough and loving enough to want to walk with his dad. That's pretty sweet. And so I kind of say, hey buddy, what do you think? Would you want to come with me? And it was like a treasure, right?
Mark Odland:Like you're saying with your daughter, like we're on this little hike and here he is and he's before you know it he's gonna be like a teenager, but right now he's still innocent enough. We're we're walking along and he like he's like holds my hand like almost the whole time. Yeah. And we're on this walk together and it's like what a sweet moment. Like I'm gonna remember that for for years, you know.
Mark Odland:And how could you how could I imagine a different life where he wasn't part of it? You know?
Casey Neistat:Yeah.
Zack Carter:That's why what that guy said confuses me. I'm like, what? This is where the, like, therapist in me is like, what was going on during those formative years of hers? Like, I wonder, that's where I wanna like start sure like home.
Mark Odland:Oh, agreed. Agreed.
Zack Carter:Yeah. It's like, tell me about your childhood. Like, the the classic. What was your relationship with your father like?
Casey Neistat:I think this is so critical, and when I speak with friends who are married, and they're having strife, I attribute it to a lack of respect for this, which is, I've explained this to you before, Candace, but this is me maintaining my sense of self, and my work, and my friend, like my own life, you with your own life, and then together we share this relationship. And where it gets troublesome is when it becomes like one sort of relationship messy circle, and you give up your sense of self, and I give up my sense of self, and you sacrifice that for the relationship. I think that is extremely detrimental, but this, this requires a lot of this. Right? Yeah.
Candace Neistat:Okay. I have a tip. Respect each other's pet peeves. You cannot internalize it when someone doesn't like it when you leave your underwear on the floor.
Casey Neistat:I don't understand why it's so important to you to load the dishwasher after every single dish.
Candace Neistat:Okay, but you do now load the dishwasher.
Casey Neistat:And I don't wanna fight about it!
Candace Neistat:But the thing is when a partner has a pet peeve that you think is unimportant because it's just frivolous, but it's so important to that partner, it could be simple, like please put the pen caps on. It drives me crazy. And you're like that's stupid, I'm fighting over it.
Casey Neistat:No, you have to do that.
Candace Neistat:But when you put the pen cap on, the partner feels heard and respected. Come on. Oh, I'm supposed to come up
Casey Neistat:with another one? Yeah. What did she tell us in therapy? When we had that huge blowout fight, and we like wanted to cancel the trip, and you could tell we were like past our minutes with her and she just kept looking at watch, she's like, Guys, I hate to leave it at this, but we're out of time. She said, Life is short.
Casey Neistat:Mhmm. If lightning were to strike today, you were gone, would I really give a shit about the fact that we're fighting over dishes or something stupid? Life is short. And that is tip number nine. Life is short.
Casey Neistat:Let the little things go.
Mark Odland:I don't know about respecting the pet peeves. I think maybe the word grace comes to mind. Have have grace for the idea that we're all gonna have weird stuff. And part of those you know, and we come as package deals. That was a piece of advice I got from a wise person a long time ago is you can't just pick and choose parts of people and say, I want that.
Mark Odland:You have to take whole packages. And sometimes the very qualities that you love come with, like, the dark side that goes with it, and you have to be able to have some acceptance over that. Right? So I don't know about liking or respecting the pet peeve stuff, but but, like, learning to have some grace, some empathy, some and it kinda ties in with the the last one. Life is short.
Mark Odland:In a way, it it's kinda like don't sweat the small stuff, at the end of the day. Really? I mean, you're gonna get divorced over which way the toilet paper goes.
Zack Carter:Right. And which person are you speaking to right now? Are you speaking to both? Are you speaking to the person with the pet peeves, or are you speaking to the person who needs to respect the pet peeve?
Mark Odland:I would say so much of it's contextual. Right? Because, like, I was I was analyzing the video. I'm kind of like, who's the is there someone here that's being really controlling? Right?
Mark Odland:Does she have a certain way she wants everything done? Like is is it him with the dishwasher? Is it her with the pen caps? Like who is is if one person is super controlling, then you might feel like you're enabling them by like jumping when they say jump and bowing down to every last little command. Yeah.
Mark Odland:So you gotta have some backbone too. Yeah. But at the same time, man, if it doesn't cost you much time or energy and just a little thing here or there can make your spouse feel loved, respected, appreciated. Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Odland:Maybe maybe consider doing that. You know?
Zack Carter:Yeah. And maybe I'm wrong on this. I haven't done any research, so I'm gonna get in trouble for this. But, like, is it, like, typically a female thing to have, like, a lot of pet peeves, like, very particular about stuff. Because even when I was a single guy, I'd hear women talk about, like, no.
Zack Carter:The dishwasher, there's a very specific way to load up the dishwashers. And I've just kind of seen that with a few different women where it's like, there's some things that this is, like, the right way to do. And so where my mind went was sort of kind of the second thing you said was what if they have like 80 pet peeves? And like at a certain point, you're like, dude, I've done like 10. I've like worked on like 10 of your pet peeves.
Zack Carter:I don't know if I can do 15. I don't know if I can do 20. Like, I've got a certain threshold of, like, going along with trying to take care of the pet peeves for you.
Mark Odland:Yeah. I mean and and that's fair. Right? And I think it's important to kind of, like, not lump it all in the same category. Right?
Mark Odland:Because there's certain things that might be categorized as pet peeves. Basic hygiene, basic cleanliness, basic order, basic scheduling. Like because sometimes people can overcompensate. They might feel controlled and so then come they're like, what are you doing trying to control me with taking the garbage out? Like, let's let things rot.
Mark Odland:Like, really? No. That's not about being controlled. That's about something else. Right?
Mark Odland:It's about you feeling controlled even when you're not con and that's that's like going back to the EMDR stuff. Right. But but, yeah, what do you do when the list just never ends? Does it skew more more female? Then maybe.
Mark Odland:But I will say I've worked with enough engineers and military guys to know that they're on that side too.
Zack Carter:Good point. Yeah. I I was hesitant even as I said, I was like, there's probably certain dudes that are that are very particular. And I I think you're right on that. That's good.
Zack Carter:What about the So it's funny that he did the drawing of the two circles and they intersect.
Mark Odland:Yeah. Yeah.
Zack Carter:I did that in our podcast on attachment styles talked about you know, if you're in a couple, this is avoidant attachment. You're not connected, you know, and if it, you're completely overlapping, that's anxious attachment, right? So you need to have this like, you need to connect, but at the same time you need to have space for yourself. Initially, when I was like putting this together, I don't know why, but I like had it in my head that they focused way too much on independence in this video. And that's what I was going to argue about.
Zack Carter:But then I forgot, like point number one was like spend time with each other. And so maybe that was just kind of something in my head because I was like, man, those circles are like a lot of if you look at the circles, it's like little tiny sliver is us and then these big circles are and I was like, I wonder if, you know and maybe it just was just the way you drew it. But, like, you know?
Mark Odland:I I think you're onto something, honestly, Zack. Because I was I I was thinking something similar, and maybe it's just we're just overanalyzing it. But, you know, back in the day, I did I did some kind of art therapy techniques with families and with kids, and a lot can be communicated through visual representation, through artwork, and through metaphor. So for example, you can do something called, it's called a kinesthetic family drawing, where you tell the kid, draw a picture of your family, and everyone has to be moving, doing something. What activities each person is doing reveals something about how the kid sees their family.
Mark Odland:And then it's like, it's not a coincidence. It's like, the family's all over here doing something, and then the kid, they draw themselves, like, small and in the corner. Like, it's like Sad. They're they they don't know they're not old enough to communicate with words, but they're but their artwork communicated a lot. Right?
Mark Odland:And then you you can have a hypothesis. Is this really accurate representation of what their emotional world is? Mhmm. Maybe, maybe not, but it's worth it's worth pursuing. Similarly in this, like, that was a very small little intersection point Yeah.
Mark Odland:Of where it overlapped. And I'm just thinking, you know, if if he were my client, I'd probably be like, alright. I'd like to do an experiment. I want you to both take those that diagram of where the circles overlap. Mhmm.
Mark Odland:And I want you to be very attentive to how big that space is or isn't of how much you overlap. Yeah. I want you to both do your drawings. Don't show each other. And then on the count of three, we're gonna flip them over and reveal to each other.
Mark Odland:And then have a conversation about, like and and my guess is they're not gonna always match. It's gonna be one person wants more independence, one person wants more connection, And that's where the compromise comes in.
Zack Carter:Well, okay. So and maybe we're reading too much into it.
Mark Odland:But Maybe.
Zack Carter:But, you know, I do know I was watching and I I think Casey Neistad's great. Like, I've
Mark Odland:really Oh, yeah.
Zack Carter:His content. But he did have a video showing how much he works, and dude gets up at, like, 04:30AM. He works all morning, and then he does take an hour or so hour or two to, like, hang with the family, get the kids to school, and then it's off to work until nighttime, then it's maybe three or four hours, and then it's, like, a couple more hours of work and then back to bed. And so, like, maybe that's enough time for family and I'm definitely not judging him on it. I'm just kind of saying like if the hypothesis is true, I wonder if that is his world.
Zack Carter:Is that like, hey, my main world is my career. And then like we have family and relationship and then like you do your thing, you know, and that would be more of that avoidant attachment is like, oh, you do your thing. I do my thing. And like occasionally we'll like overlap. So once again, we don't know.
Zack Carter:Casey's not
Mark Odland:Oh, no. Yeah.
Zack Carter:Client, You know, we're a person that we don't know, from a five minute video. So
Mark Odland:No. But it's the it's a good it's a good point. Right? I mean, it's like and that would be could be a whole separate drawing. Depict where you think your relationship actually is, and now depict what you'd like your relationship to look like.
Mark Odland:Right. And if this guy is just crushing it, which it sounds like he is in the in the YouTube space and, just all he's doing with his career, there's a lot of good that comes to that. You're you're a content creator. You're you're you're influencing people. You're being a great provider for your family.
Mark Odland:We work with enough men to know that men get way too much shame heaped on them for being good providers and feeling pulled in million different directions. So and yet, right, what at the end of the day, what are you working for? Yeah, make the world a better place and cherish those moments with your family and make sure you don't miss it. Don't watch life passing you by. And so maybe for him he knows that tendency, I don't know.
Mark Odland:Maybe he knows that he loves working and he loves working hard. And even though that space seems small where it overlaps to us, for him, it's a constant reminder of at least there has to be space that overlaps, and that pulls me back. Last
Zack Carter:tip before we get to tip 10 was life is short. Let the little things go. Any other thoughts or comments on that?
Mark Odland:I think I think there's a lot of truth to that. I mean and, again, it's context dependent. Right? Sometimes people need to have a backbone, and they need to stand up to more, not less. And because they've been passive way too long.
Mark Odland:But I think in most cases, we do sweat this, you know, we sweat the small stuff, things that don't doesn't really matter. You can choose. It's hard. You can choose to to let go. You know, one person defined forgiveness as the willingness to let go your justification for retaliation.
Mark Odland:So it's not just I saying the words I forgive you. It's not just having a warm feeling inside. It's saying, I'm giving up my right to fight back in this moment, and I'm wishing the best for them. And I'm choosing to turn my heart toward a feeling of love and well wishes for this person. That's a powerful thing to do and it's not easy when you feel like you've been slighted or if you feel like you've been hurt.
Mark Odland:It feels like you're giving up something. It doesn't feel unfair. But man, it can sure stop the cycle of revenge that we see in marriages, we see in gang violence, we see in warfare right it's like where does it stop you know it's a tough question.
Candace Neistat:I have a good old pictures of us, like when we were like dating or whatever
Casey Neistat:When we were young and beautiful.
Candace Neistat:Yeah. It makes me love you so much. I don't know. So maybe if you're having a bad day, go back in your phone or if you're old like us, back into your pictures and look at a cute picture of yourselves when you really liked each other.
Mark Odland:They're so funny because like I pick up on all these subtle things like back when we were young and beautiful. Like you're kind of slamming your wife and saying she's not beautiful today. Again, I'm really they have a playful they have some playfulness in their relationship, which I like to see. That's always, like, a really positive thing when I have couple couples in my office. If there's any physical contact, a a hand on the shoulder, a touch on the knee, know, something like that.
Mark Odland:Like, okay. We can get through this. Like, there's some there's some laughter. There's some grace. Practically, I love the idea of going back to old photos because it reminds you of so much good stuff.
Mark Odland:It can anyway. And here's the thing. We sometimes we overcompartmentalize how we how we see time. We think about this is the present. I'm gonna dip my toe back into the past, but then it but it's really over.
Mark Odland:Well, here's the beauty of the mind. Right? When you access those memories, you pull them into the present like a time machine, and you're experiencing all those feelings when? Right now. Mhmm.
Mark Odland:Right? So in that sense, it doesn't have to be over. You can enjoy those memories every chance that you choose to pull them up in your mind or in a photo album or on a video. Right? So I think that's beautiful.
Zack Carter:Yeah. I speaking to that, you know, I had a client this week who was telling me about all the all the stuff that went wrong in his week. And I was like, can you give me three things that went well this week? And he listed off three things. And the first two things, he lit up.
Zack Carter:He was so excited, so happy. When I tried to get into, like, the problems he was getting into, he's like, dude, I'm not even in that headspace anymore. Like, I'm having a hard time getting back there because I'm so excited about these things. And John Gottman, who's, like, the OG relationship researcher that I reference all the time, he he talks about contempt and contempt is thinking the other person is lower than yourself. You're beneath me.
Zack Carter:And contempt is the number one predictor of divorce. It's crazy destructive in a relationship. And so what is Gottman's solution to contempt? It's listing three things that you appreciate about the other person on a daily basis. Pulling those memories, pulling those things.
Zack Carter:What did you used to appreciate about them? What did you used to love about them? What were the things that brought you guys together? Like like you said, that's that time machine that pulls you to the present. So, yeah, I I you know, honestly, good for you, Candice.
Zack Carter:Like, that's a good good way to finish. I really liked it.
Mark Odland:I love it. If if you're still listening, thanks for being part of the journey with us and seeing the podcast grow. Of course, like, subscribe means a lot to us, helps us reach more people. And drop ideas in the comments. Anything else you'd like to see us react to, comment on, discuss.
Mark Odland:Even though this is not therapy, this is a podcast, you can get a vibe for for Zack and I, how we interact with people, our personalities. If you feel like you could, use a little help and, you wanna reach out for for a little support from Zack or I and see if it might be a good fit, Go to escapethecagenow.com. Happy to do a free clarity call. See if it's right. So till next time.