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The Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast brings together amazing leaders, entrepreneurs, and experts to share the successes, challenges, and secrets to living and leading as a VIBRANT Leader.
Tune-in each week as Nicole Greer interviews a new Vibrant Leader.
Email her at nicole@vibrantculture.com
[00:00:00] Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and they call me the Vibrant Coach. And I am here with another amazing, vibrant guest. Traci Chernoff is the creator and host of the globally acclaimed podcast, Bringing the Human back to Human Resources.
And we're going to ask her what that means. And she is the dedicated career coach offering expert services and resume writing, design and editing, interview skills, preparation, career coaching and LinkedIn curation. So we're going to get all the downloads from her today. You're going to have all the takeaways.
Get your pen and pencil ready. Her passion for HR and career coaching ignited in college, where she assisted friends and family with their resumes and interview preparations with a business and administration and English rhetoric from binghamton, did I say it right? University and a Master's in public administration from Rutgers University, Traci embarked on a dynamic HR career.
Over the past decade, she has held pivotal HR leadership roles in both big box and luxury retail sectors, driving strategic initiatives, managing employee relations, talent planning and core HR processes across North America, and she started at the Target. We're going to talk about the Target. Transitioning from retail
Traci took on a senior leadership role in the tech workforce management software industry, supporting teams across North America. E, M, E, A, and India. On her podcast, Bringing the Human back to Human Resources, Traci aims to revolutionize HR by aligning employee demands with business needs and dismantling the misconceptions and stigmas that often cloud the HR field.
Her mission is to empower and educate her audience, ensuring that they leave with newfound confidence and knowledge and insight. Through her podcast and career coaching, Traci provides invaluable perspectives on HR, and we're going to get some of those today, offer strategic guidance on HR processes, and assist clients in navigating their career paths with clarity and confidence.
My word, I am so glad you're here. You're like a genius. All things HR.
[00:02:12] Traci Chernoff: Well, when I hear you read my bio, I'm like, who's she talking about? I'm And then I'm like, Oh yeah, that is me, I guess. That's pretty cool.
Yeah. And if you, if you're watching on YouTube, you're like, she looks like she's like 14. What in the world?
Yeah. And she's, and one of the most important things that's not even in her bio is like, she's the mama to twins. Isn't that amazing? Does all this and has two eight month olds.
Yeah. Thank you so much. It's really, uh, you know, sometimes when you hear someone, tell you about yourself in a way. I realize that's my bio.
I certainly had a hand in writing that. Um, I did write it. But when I think about that, it's like wild, uh, when I look back on my career and also now, you know, being a mom, being a wife, like it's just so crazy. I'm super grateful.
[00:03:01] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. Blessed woman for sure. Okay. So everybody, we know, um, what, you know, let me just tell you something real quick before we talk about Bringing the Human back to Human Resources.
I was speaking down in Melbourne, Florida at a SHRM meeting and this, after I spoke, this gentleman came up and he was very kind and he was like, Oh, I loved your talk and all that good stuff. That, you know, us fellow speakers say to each other and, and he said, next month, I'm presenting here. And I said, that's fantastic.
What are you going to present on? And he said, I'm going to present on this article called Why We Hate HR. Have you heard about this?
[00:03:38] Traci Chernoff: No, I'm gonna have to look this up.
[00:03:40] Nicole Greer: Okay. so There was this article that said Why We Hate HR. He was gonna talk about do we still hate HR? but he's gonna talk to all the HR professionals, you know, so
[00:03:50] Traci Chernoff: I love that. That's hilarious.
[00:03:51] Nicole Greer: I got the article and when I read it, I was just kind of like Yeah, I don't know. Maybe the people who are sour and upset about everything in life might hate HR, but I think the average bear understands that there's a beautiful human like Traci trying to do her best in the HR department or Nicole Greer, right?
[00:04:11] Traci Chernoff: Right, right. It's true. I mean, it's funny because everyone always says you're not always going to be able to please everyone, so this we know, but HR, it's just a very funny thing because the HR space, let's say, it doesn't even matter what industry you're in within HR, there's just a stigma. It's one of, I know we're going to talk about this, but it's one of the main reasons why I created my podcast, because there is such a um, lack of understanding and there's a lack of appreciation that HR is basically just a term for a bunch of people who have a function in a business. Just like finance, just like business development, just like sales, right? Like, what is really the difference other than HR truly being kind of the middle person between the employee demands and the business needs? So that obviously is a major difference.
I don't think that there are many other players within business or within organizations that have that type of role. But There are a lot of stigmas and I read on Reddit and Facebook groups and Instagram all the time where people say that they, express a lot of contention when it comes to, uh, HR and their HR partners.
So. There's a lot to break down there.
[00:05:28] Nicole Greer: Well, let's start with kind of your slogan, you know, or your tagline, which is Bringing the Human back to Human Resources. So what, what do you actually mean by that? How do you, how are you bringing the human back?
[00:05:41] Traci Chernoff: I appreciate you asking this. So I think it's helpful to, um, take you back in time and to help your listeners to envision this time.
So it was 2020. We all know what happened then. And, uh, you know, many of us had. Pretty much, you know, gone fully remote. I was fully remote and I, you know, I'd just finished my Master's and I was like, okay, now what? I don't know what to do with all of my time. And I had always wanted to start a podcast. And I remember saying to my husband, like, you know, I really want to start something.
I don't know what I'm going to talk about. He was like, just buy the mic and you'll figure it out. Like, okay, great. That's the advice I would give him if he were in this, you know, conundrum. And so I bought the mic and I kid you not, the mic, the mic. I get an email from target saying that the mic had been, you know, in process to be delivered and I was like, oh, crap, I have to come up with a topic and I was scrolling on LinkedIn like so many of us do and I saw so many people, unfortunately, a lot of people in HR who were expressing opinions that I vehemently disagreed with around really like people and business, especially in the context of COVID and everything was so focused on this very vague kind of approach to people . And also this, uh, almost like a numeric representation of people.
Like everything was about numbers, was about the bottom line or the top line. It was hard for me to find thought leaders on LinkedIn who are really talking about the people in these businesses who were being affected by COVID, whether that's, you know, someone in the healthcare industry who was directly affected in a very specific way or someone outside of healthcare.
And at the time I was working in retail. And I had, you know, my, my job had completely changed because now I'm managing employee health, which is not something I had ever done. So that's the context of all of this. And by the time I received my mic, I was like, aha, light bulb moment. This is what I can talk about.
I feel so passionately about really helping leaders to see who they're talking about. Fine. You want to talk about how there's a specific trend or there's, you know, with COVID there, 10 percent of people are being laid off per organization. I'm just throwing out a random example. Well, what does 10 percent really mean?
Those are people, those are human beings. And what does it mean for them now that they don't have a job or that they were laid off in a way that isn't really emblematic of a, an organization's values, right? So all of this was the context, the historical context, I'll say. And so I decided that there was a real problem to solve.
And the problem was really this lack of humanity, not even a lack of empathy, but really a lack of humanity and understanding behind what our jobs truly are within HR. And so from that I was like, okay, well, you know, it's called human resources, so I'm going to bring the human back. And I was like, aha, Bringing the Human back to Human Resources.
It's really literally that like we're called human resources. Fine. Some people are called people operations. The company that I work for we do call ourselves people operations. It doesn't matter. We're bringing the human, we're bringing the people, we're bringing the audience, the subject that we are meant to provide support to other than our, the business that we work for. We're bringing them back to the forefront and back to the root of what it is that we do. So that's kind of in a nutshell, the long story behind where Bringing the Human back.
[00:09:21] Nicole Greer: Well, you know, one thing that I say all the time when I'm teaching HR classes and things like that, I teach for the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.
Hey, shout out to all the niners out there. So here, here's the thing is I'm teaching all these folks that want to get into HR and I open up my class. I'm curious what you think about this Traci as I say, uh, so imagine you're building or imagine all your people working remotely in their . kitchens at the dining room table, wherever they are. And all of a sudden the aliens upload them in a starship and take your employees to Mars. What's going to get done today at work? And people are like, uh, nothing. And I'm like, exactly. That's exactly my point. I mean, you need humans to run a business.
And so I, you could have the most whiz bang product in the world, but you got to have somebody to work with that product or service. So that is that what you mean as well about the human?
[00:10:26] Traci Chernoff: Yes. Well, it's so funny that you mentioned this because recently I was speaking with someone not in HR about how important that is.
And, uh, really specifically where we're talking about how there is, it's very easy for, decision makers, whether that's someone at the C suite or someone in HR, to easily forget their audience just because when you're in the moment of making a decision or trying to solve a problem, you're not necessarily always keeping in mind who your audience is.
One of my really, um, firm mantras is meet people where they are. And I say that because. When you really think about it and you have a decision maker who isn't keeping their audience in mind, are you really doing that? Are you really meeting your people where they are? Like, in the, in the scope of my experience before I worked in tech, I worked in retail and luxury retail, um, and my audience.
They were hourly employees most of the time, like nine times, 90%, I would say 60 to 90 if we're being super fair. Yeah. So when we think about that, it's like, okay, the hourly employees have really, really specific nuances to their jobs and specific challenges that someone who is an hourly doesn't necessarily.
Uh, understand or someone who hasn't worked an hourly job doesn't understand for sure. And so when you even think about the challenge behind, like, pay or access to pay or into wage access, which is totally a topic for another time, I'm sure, um, you know, when you make when businesses really think about the problems that they're solving for, if they're not thinking through that lens of, Who the audience is and who the recipient of that information or that that solution is going to be, they're totally going to miss the mark.
So I guess coming back to this point that you're making, it's like the sooner business leaders in or outside of HR can really understand and see that we're talking about people. Like, for another example, here is that anytime someone references percentages, whether it's in the work that I do, or a client, or, you know, anyone that I'm speaking to about this type of topic, I'm always eager to say, okay, well, what does that truly represent?
Because if someone says, Oh, well, 10 percent of our organization isn't meeting expectations. Well, what does that mean? And of that 10%, how many people are actively being coached or giving, giving feedback by their leaders, right? So I just imagine that's what the leader, the listeners are saying. Um, so, you know, if you think about that, if you have an organization of a hundred people, 10 percent is 10 people.
So you're not talking about percentages. You're talking about 10 human beings. Who may or may not have had the opportunity to improve their, uh, performance. So it's like, okay, well, of the 10 people, if 10 percent of them have received coaching and feedback, that's one person, right? 10 That's right.
[00:13:32] Nicole Greer: That's one.
Out of a hundred. Right.
[00:13:35] Traci Chernoff: Right. Exactly. So, you know, I, I, I should clarify. I've never claimed to be a math, you know, mathematician here, but that's, you know, if I think about all the purses that I've bought on sale, that's, you know, 10%, you know, I could do that quickly, but that's, that's what we're talking about here is, you know, truly individuals.
So I think that the, at the end of the day, organizations are better suited for really having a pulse on who their people are thinking about. Who they're impacting. And then also when they do talk about numbers, because it's inevitable, especially the larger the organization, the more you're kind of summing people up into these percentages or, you know, number formats.
There has to be some anecdotal approach so that we're not losing the humanity in our decision making.
[00:14:26] Nicole Greer: Absolutely. And so I just want to say a couple of things about all that because there were lots of nuggets in there. When you're throwing around your percents, remember that percents are people and figure out how many people you're talking about.
And then her powerful question right there was, what does that truly represent? And. And I will tell you, I don't know how you feel about this, but I have this radical belief. Um, so let's see how this flies. But, um, I'm not a big believer in employee engagement surveys. I think they create a lot of trouble and, uh, my whole thing is.
Stop surveying and start engaging, you know, so I think 1 of the big problems with bringing back the human to human resources is, you know, most, most companies say it's 100 people. They're going to probably have 1 human resource person, maybe 2, if they are lucky as all day long. Right? Um, there's no way 1 person in human resources can engage those 100 people.
So it's almost like, I think, like, anybody who has a direct report is on the human resources team. That's how I look at it. You know, so if I'm a manager and I have 3 people, I'm on the human resources team. Now, I collaborate with Traci, but I am dealing with my human resources and I engage with them.
And I love what you said, um, how many of them are getting coaching or feedback? And I think a great manager is great at giving feedback. And great at letting people know how they're doing and giving them the tools to do better. I mean, that's what employee engagement is to me. So I'm loving everything that you're saying there.
Their performance managing their performance. That's that's the key. What do you think?
[00:16:13] Traci Chernoff: Yeah, I agree. I managers have a really hard job. Not only do they have the jobs that they do, but they also have the job of managing people and leading people and coaching. And that is a totally separate job on top of the job that they have.
It's not to say that managers should say that they're doing two jobs because that's the job of a manager is to do your own job and manage or lead people. But it's really difficult. And you know, the, the thing that I'll say, too, is I totally agree that anyone that is a people leader has a great deal of responsibility on their shoulders.
And there's that, I think, same or similar pressure on HR teams to make sure that their leaders are equipped with what, with the tools that they need in order to be highly successful people leaders. Not every manager, as we know, is going to be great. Not every manager, as we know, is going to be terrible.
Um, but there is that, you know, added pressure on HR teams and I would say senior leadership teams to really, really provide , The tools and the training that leaders need in order to be the best they can be to get the same way we're talking about how many bottom performers are being coached or given feedback on a regular basis.
It's really the same thing. Because even if someone is really great at what they do, One can't assume that they have the training and the tools that they need to do even better or to lead a team. And on your hot take around the engagement surveys the one thing that I'll say because I don't totally disagree I think I think two things can be true at once where you can have surveys and you can engage and they don't you know, they're not like mutually exclusive but I do think See, look at us aligning I love it. Um, not that it's a requirement I know for being on your podcast because we could totally disagree and get, and, and sometimes that's great too, when you disagree with, with others, uh, in your same industry. But anyway, I digress. My point here is that, um, the one thing that I think surveys do that potentially benefits an organization is that they provide talking points for leaders that might be on the side of the spectrum, where they deny, deny, deny that things are in need of improvement.
So, like, surveys do kind of take away than the, um, subjectivity. that comes from like an HR leader having all of this feedback and saying, Hey, this is what I'm hearing because certainly I'm sure you and I have both worked with folks who have argued that the feedback isn't, you know, accurate or that there is nothing to change, but surveys you can't really argue with because the people taking those surveys are the members of the team.
So I think that's the one thing that I would say is a positive caveat to having surveys. But I do think that you can't. I should say, I know that you can't have surveys without the engagement portion, because if you're just surveying and you do nothing to engage with the team, you do nothing to affect change from that feedback, people are just going to stop taking your survey.
What does it all mean?
[00:19:26] Nicole Greer: That's exactly right. And that's what I see a lot of the time. There's that, and then there's like denial and the ostrich's head in the sand moment where like, you know, and then I think a lot of times we throw out a survey and we're not careful about wording or have a, like a, a pre, a preamble to this survey, like, here's, here's what we're going to do, you know, because there's certain things people are going to ask for and we're not going to be able to give it to them.
Cause, cause I love what you say in your, in your, in your, uh, intro that I read in your bio is you said, um, hold on, let me find it right here. Cause it's really good. Cause this is really what HR is supposed to be. It's supposed to be a partner, right? And you said, aligning employee demands with business needs, right?
So, you know, the thing that we need to remember is like, employees are there to help make the business grow. That's how that works. Right? But then the, the employees need stuff to make the business grow and they need stuff personally so that they can bring themselves to the work fully. Um, and so I think it's, you know, if you have a survey, maybe even take right out of Traci, uh, Chernoff's, uh, bio, that little line right there, this is what we're trying to do with this survey.
We can't give you everything, like not everybody can get, you know, like you get a new car and you get a new car. You know, we're not going to
[00:20:48] Traci Chernoff: Right. I know, we could Oprah Winfrey the whole, the whole process. It's really a very good point too and something that I've learned, uh, just this year from working with my, my leader who is, um, who's been my leader now for a year is that the questions that you ask in a survey are also really important, because if you ask questions that you know, regardless of the answers you can't solve for doesn't even matter whether it's like a an easy solution or a difficult solution if you can't reasonably solve for it.
Why are you asking? And I was like, that's a great point. And so these are things that, you know, I've learned this year that there's really a very clear strategy to, um, surveying and, you know, it doesn't mean that you have to survey and doesn't mean that you don't have to survey, but when you do, you have to do it in a meaningful and highly strategic way so that you're not kind of shooting yourself in the foot.
Oh,
[00:21:46] Nicole Greer: I couldn't agree more. Yeah, because that's what I see a lot of limping HR people who have shot themselves in the foot. . We don't want, we don't want that. Yeah, so let's dig in a little bit to that, you know, um, where you, where you say aligning employee demands, like that word demand might set off some leaders, what demands, uh, align employee demands with the business needs.
So can you give us an example of what you're talking about right there? How, how do we be, be better at that? So let's get a basic understanding of that.
Yeah, I mean, a perfect example is, I think, even if we think about the hourly workforce, because 60 percent of the American workforce, um, do work on an hourly basis and earn an income on an hourly basis.
[00:22:31] Traci Chernoff: So, if we take then that statistic, then potentially something around 40 to 60 percent of your listeners might be, uh, earning an income on an hourly basis. So, that said, uh, I think a perfect example is, you know, if an employee really needs flexibility. Hourly employees are often the ones who really pay the price and don't have the flexibility.
They're often frontline workers. If we even think about retail again, you know, a cashier, someone stocking the shelves, someone unloading the trucks of shipment, they're working on an hourly basis and flexibility is not something that typically is awarded to them. But why not? Why can't hourly employees have the same flexibility that you and I have where we're able to work remotely? You and I are doing your podcast remotely, right? We're, we're recording from you're in North Carolina and I'm in New York and it's working out. Why can't an hourly employee have that same level of flexibility within the scope of what they do? So within the scope of what they do, flexibility could look like being able to swap shifts without manager oversight um, and just having some approval. It could be, um, employees being able to have access to their earned wages. I kind of mentioned this before. Earned wage access to me is a really important piece of flexibility and then the current and future frontier for hourly employees. And so when we understand that demands are really expectations.
Like you and I are not going to work for free, right? That's when we say, Hey, this is what I charge you client X, or, you know, this is what my salary is when I join a company full time, that's a demand and either a company is willing to pay that salary or they're not. When we understand that those expectations, like flexibility for an hourly employee, are totally reasonable like it's totally reasonable to expect that a company pays you for example, again, coming back to this, you know, fundamental demand that you and I have to get paid or that anyone has to get paid.
Right? Then we can understand. Okay. Well, where can the business then meet some of those demands. It's not to say that businesses should meet every single employee demand. That would be insane.
[00:24:40] Nicole Greer: Saying that viable or physically things like,
[00:24:43] Traci Chernoff: Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. So don't meet every demand, but when we think about flexibility or earned wage access, businesses should be trying a little bit harder to meet those demands because they're reasonable.
So again, with this, example of being able to swap a shift or take on more shifts outside of what they've been scheduled. Businesses need more coverage. And when you think about, again, I'm a retailer by trade really. And when I think about what businesses always need, what retailers always need, it's more coverage, more availability.
More hands, right? And that means that now you have this employee demand for flexibility, and you have the business need for more coverage, and you're able to find harmony between those two things. And I try to help folks see that, but it doesn't have to be this um, feeling of compromise or, or, um, sacrifice.
It's actually a matter of figuring out, okay, what is the employee going to benefit from? How can we make their experience better just by understanding their demands and hearing their demands? And is there anything that we can actually do about it? And most of the time there is something. That a company can do about it so that their business needs are met and the employee demands are met.
And now you have this like heart harmony, everyone's, you know, peace and love and it's great and people are willing.
[00:26:06] Nicole Greer: I agree. Yeah. It's kind of like, hear me out. This is what I need. Yeah. I love, I love that. Yeah.
[00:26:12] Traci Chernoff: Exactly.
[00:26:13] Nicole Greer: So, you know, some folks are probably listening, going earned wage access, explain.
[00:26:17] Traci Chernoff: Yes. Yes. So earned wage access fundamentally is the ability for really hourly employees, but let's just say employees generally to be able to access the wages that they've already earned. If you take a, uh, again, a retail employee here, let's say they've already worked 10 hours, um, in their week and they have another 15 to go, but they have a bill that's due today.
Earned wage access provides them the flexibility to be able to effectively like cash out those 10 hours that they've already worked. They already did the work. They did the job. They earned those 10 hours. And so earned wage access provides them that that really like physical capability of being able to retrieve and receive those funds. And then that's like the, that's the pinnacle of flexibility for an hourly employee. And this is, you know, in the work that I do, quote unquote, my day job, um, where I work as a senior director of employee engagement, I work for a tech company and workforce management software. So this is something that we provide our clients as a solution earned wage access is one of the many, um, products that we have.
And I really, I mean, I fundamentally believe in it. It's when I think about my own experience as an hourly employee. I don't know if you've ever worked. Um, in retail or in an hourly role. Yeah.
[00:27:35] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Retail, restaurant, business, all of those front line things. Absolutely.
[00:27:42] Traci Chernoff: Yeah. If you think about that, like, let's say you were, you know, back in school and you had already, you know, maybe it was, maybe it was actually your summer vacation.
You're working as many hours as you could so that you could, and maybe, and like me, you know, so that you could have some extra cash. Right. And books and shoes and books and shoes and maybe some beer money, if that's what you like. , You know, maybe you're taking 30 hours that week and you, you have an event or a party that you want to go to and you've already worked 20 hours.
You're able to receive that 20 hours of pay that you've already worked and you don't have to wait for your next pay period. And that is again, the pinnacle of flexibility to me. And it's very hard, I think for me to hear a viable argument against it from a business. Like, why wouldn't a business want their employees to have that type of flexibility? Customers of ours, for example, like, you know, we work with them within their payroll or HRS systems.
And, and as long as you have the, the logistics figured out, I would really love to hear how a company would defend against having that. Cause there really isn't an argument against it. Because ultimately like when you have a more engaged population, uh, you know, businesses are going to be more productive.
Customers are going to be happier. And we know to your example around, you know, if aliens come and abduct all of our employees, like the business is not going to move if, if a business cannot keep their employees happy and everyone leaves. Or is abducted by aliens.
[00:29:13] Nicole Greer: That's exactly right.
[00:29:14] Traci Chernoff: Won't happen.
[00:29:14] Nicole Greer: Yeah.
And I think the only argument people could come up with would be like, if you are in a cash flow problem, that would be the only, only reason. But if you had, you know, a couple of, uh, bankrolls of payroll sitting in the bank. And you could, you could do the money part of it. This would be no issue at all.
[00:29:32] Traci Chernoff: Yeah. And I suppose if a company has a cash flow issue there, there are much bigger fish to fry than employee at that point.
[00:29:39] Nicole Greer: So I love that. Well, you said you have many products. I don't want to turn this into a commercial, but, um, you know, what are some other, um, flexibility or products or things that HR professionals could do to meet . you know, they're the employee demands, uh, and then at the same time, get people revved up about loving working there. Cause here's what I know. Here's what I know. Here's the thing, everybody. If people love where they work, they typically work harder. Typically is the key word there, but typically.
Typically work harder. I mean, there's been places where I've loved working and I gave it my all and if I didn't enjoy working there I was typically getting my resume together and answering job placement ads, but. So I I think that people, you know, if they have flexibility with their earned wage access, they're pretty jammed up about things.
They're going to do well. So what other things can we do to meet employee demands?
[00:30:35] Traci Chernoff: Oh, that's a great question. I mean, when you think about the people, again, like if we come back to the . , If the hourly employees have demands and they're the majority of a business, what about the managers? Like, how are we understanding their needs and their demands?
And managers, again, are so often tasked with this, like, really, really difficult job of doing their own jobs and managing people. And so, to me, one of the best things that a company can do is think about how they can help them to be more productive and, really save them time. The company that I work for is Legion Technologies.
So one of the things that we, um, also offer is scheduling automation which is backed by intelligent automation and and A. I. And so through that, there are demand drivers that businesses, um, just innately have right again. If you think about retail, there's you know, there's traffic, there's sales per hour.
There's all of these data points that, businesses like ours and workforce management softwares like ours can take and really help to create ideal schedules through automation. So then managers are actually not spending that time scheduling their employees or managing swap shifts or managing, you know, calls in and out.
They're effectively having all of that time saved and then they can reinvest that time to do other things. And so I can tell you, I mean, I used to work at Target as an in store HR manager and I spent hours, hours and hours of my time on scheduling. And through that, I also had to work with the department managers on their schedules.
And so when I add up the amount of time that I spent plus the amount of time that they spent, it was egregious. And so, you know, ultimately I, I came to the company that I work for now, Legion Technologies, because I was a customer of Legion's first. After leaving target, I worked for a luxury, um, fashion company called Sandro and Maj.
Yeah.
[00:32:34] Nicole Greer: How many handbags do you go? Get a count. Okay. Oh, a lot. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
[00:32:39] Traci Chernoff: A lot. I would say maybe over 15, but you know, I have to say I'm very scrupulous. Like I, I don't just buy, I like to make sure that what I'm buying is either an investment or something I really, really, really, really want so, but it's really the better question is how many shoes do I have?
[00:32:59] Nicole Greer: They're putting on an edition.
[00:33:00] Traci Chernoff: That's a number. I can't even tell you. I don't even know
[00:33:02] Nicole Greer: for the twins and the shoes.
[00:33:03] Traci Chernoff: Yeah, right, right, right For the twins, right? Exactly. My husband just doesn't know it yet . But all of this to say that when I was you know working in luxury retail we had these problems .We had managers who were wasting their time on scheduling and we had employees who didn't have the flexibility that they needed. And so I found the company that I work for now, Legion Technologies, and we effectively signed with them, became a customer. And I can tell you just from my own experience that in this rollout, managers went from spending 10 hours a week on scheduling end to end. And then they, to then saving seven hours.
So they spent instead of 10 hours, they spent three hours on scheduling. So that's seven hours went back into spending time with customers, which is what we want. And employees want that too. They want to feel that their manager has time for them and that they're dedicated to them and managers physically can't do that.
So unless they have time given back to them. When I think about that, it's that is a scheduling automation is a big factor to me in meeting employee demands and, of course, meeting business needs because you can't roll things out that only satisfy employee demands. You have to do things that, you know, of course, hopefully, on the majority satisfy employee demands, you know, as the 1st priority and then, um, do have a business like underpinning to them because then it's just a responsible decision.
[00:34:29] Nicole Greer: And, um, as you're talking about this, I'm just thinking about again, back to Bringing the Human back to Human Resources. I think another demand, or wish or hope or prayer, or however you want to say it, expectation that employees have is I, you know, you, you and I, I just think I'm like 2 generations older than you or something.
But I like, like, here's the thing. How can I do better? Like that was, you know, like I want to do better financially. I want to do better at my job. I want to get ahead. I want to have financial security. You know, I want to buy a house someday. And I think what matches that, like people have a life plan, but the, but most people get it that like that life plan is going to require a career plan, Those two, it's like, you know, two, uh, legs of the ladder, right?
You got to have both in place to get where you want to go. Um, so, so I think like career paths or, or helping people see a better future is also a big part of HR, but I think most of my HR friends, they don't spend a lot of time talking about future and career pathing. They're down in the weeds with, payroll and who's upset and who's called somebody a name in the break room or whatever all the stuff is.
Um, so so what what do you think about the demand that people have for a bigger better future? You think it's out there still?
[00:35:59] Traci Chernoff: Oh, yeah, I do. I think that this is one of the areas in which we have to, as HR people, understand where we've reached our limit. Because sometimes we don't have the capacity or the bandwidth to really move the needle.
I think that, you know, fundamentally career growth is owned by the individual. I really believe that because even if I think about my own career, I wasn't relying on other people to see me as promotable. I drove myself And I pushed myself and I, I partnered with people and I collaborated a lot and I was like the yes person to get to, you know, all of these different levels of my career.
So when I think when there's an understanding that 90 percent of your career development and your growth is on you and then that other 10 percent is leveraging a resource. Whether it's a person, manager, a tool, like an actual system, whatever that might be, then I think you're kind of set up for a little bit more success.
And then kind of coming back to my initial point. H. R. teams have to really think about how do they support. The career growth that individuals want to have, because even if 90 percent of it is on the individual, they also believe that 90 percent of it is what's available to them. So that, you know, it doesn't matter what we know and think that career development is an individual task.
There has to be an infrastructure because otherwise it doesn't really matter if the individual pushes themselves and takes 100 percent of the ownership for their own development. There has to be infrastructure. There has to be opportunity. There has to be equity. There has to be a plan in place for when someone is promoted, or there has to be like a mentorship program.
The infrastructure needs to exist. And if we're talking about a smaller organization. It doesn't have to be this big, you know, heavy lift. It could just be, Right. Yeah, it doesn't have to be that way. It could be, hey Traci, you know, I think that this person would be a great mentor for you because they really really are passionate about strategy and this is the thing that you wanted to work on and this is the thing that you wanted to develop.
It could be as simple as that and then saying can you meet once a month so and so with Traci so she can learn from you? And that does feel good for someone who wants that exposure or wants growth and then it does it is kind of this harmonious and cyclical thing where, you know, you extend an olive branch or you do something to support someone's career growth.
And then they, you know, give more. They give five inches instead of an inch because they want more. They want more exposure. They want to do more. So there's no downside to developing an infrastructure, whether big or small. And there's no downside to helping people or even outsourcing the learning and development portion of the business, because again, I mean, this is where sometimes we in HR are overjobbed.
Like that's not necessarily where we're best suited. There are L and D professionals. Who and companies who do this every single day?
[00:39:11] Nicole Greer: But I think um, Not but yes, and that's what I want to do improv. Yes.
[00:39:17] Traci Chernoff: Yeah. There you go. Yes
[00:39:18] Nicole Greer: So I do agree that career is growth is owned by the individual 100%, I agree with that and um, And you do have to leverage it. And you know people are wired different like again I think about like you are you and I are cut from the same cloth like I got after it really young, you know And it's paid off That's why I tell young people, get after it.
It'll pay off. I promise. It doesn't look like it in, in this moment, but someday you're going to know a lot. If you learn a lot, that's just how that works. Uh, but I love what you said about HR can be like a real advocate for infrastructure. I mean, like that's the conversation while we're, we're working with our individuals, our employee demands.
We've also got this thing of the business needs. And really most companies that are growing are going to need future managers, future, um, people who are, um, uh, what are they? Uh, specialists in a certain area, right? Like we're going to need a specialist. Like, you know, if 20 years ago we would have been like social media.
What do you mean? You know, I can remember when a guy came to.
[00:40:25] Traci Chernoff: I know, don't even get me started. No, I said don't even get me started.
[00:40:29] Nicole Greer: I can remember I was running an apartment community in uptown Charlotte, North Carolina, and this gentleman came by and talked to me about the internet and wanted to know if we wanted a website.
And I said, I don't, I don't know. I'm not sure if we want that. I mean, that's the conversation I had.
[00:40:47] Traci Chernoff: And it's so funny because it's such a window into that time too, because now you just go online. To find a way to create a website Yeah, so it's like there isn't someone knocking at your door asking if you want to create a website You just like created or you have it.
It's just really fun. It's so nostalgic. I love looking
[00:41:05] Nicole Greer: You know, and it was an apartment community and they're like, you know, because we survived on having a sign out front and a very busy road front frontage road, you know frontage area and you'll people will come in to look for an apartment. He's like, but people can look at your apartments on the computer and we were like, wow, really, you know So nifty
[00:41:25] Traci Chernoff: You know, actually It's so it's so true.
Like I we live in an apartment community because the housing market is insane and uh, especially in New York, but pretty much everywhere. And everything is online. There's no one to show you the apartment. If you want to see it, you have to come to the leasing office and like just get a key to see uh, a unit that's available to see. And everything else is online, you never even meet with someone. Everything is online. I was like,
[00:41:51] Nicole Greer: terrible. My heart is grieving because I used to, I used to be in my pinnials driving my golf cart around with you on the back end with the twins.
[00:41:59] Traci Chernoff: Oh, I love a golf cart. pick me up anytime
[00:42:03] Nicole Greer: Yeah, but we got to provide the infrastructure is my whole point, right?
So we've got to have, we got to have that. And the demands, of the employees, we've got to have that growth. I mean, you know, you're not going to grow this business if you don't have somebody ready. In fact, I had this conversation, had a HR, you know how we do, this is how we do, don't we? All HR people listening.
Uh, she called me up. She's like, Oh my God, I've got a doozy. I need help. I said, okay. And so she's got this poor person who cannot stay awake. And so we had a whole conversation and here's the thing that this is the big nugget that popped in my head this week. I'm going to write an article about it, Traci, but like there's the people problem, but then there's the business problem that the people problem is creating.
And I think we sometimes forget that. Cause I kept telling my HR friend, I was like, listen, I'm not really sure what to do with the sleeping part right now, I have to think about that one. But the problem is they don't want to do anything about the sleeping person because he has knowledge that nobody else has.
And really the business problem is we don't have anybody ready. You see what I'm saying?
[00:43:14] Traci Chernoff: That's like a double whammy.
[00:43:16] Nicole Greer: And those are the things we get ourselves in if we don't have the infrastructure or we don't have the career pathing going on. There should be somebody that knows what Traci knows. In case Traci goes off and writes the best selling novel on Amazon or whatever.
[00:43:31] Traci Chernoff: It's true. Yeah. Hey, maybe we'll manifest it. But you know a great example of this recently is that I was on maternity leave. I was I was out for almost five months and I really believe that knowledge sharing is power. It doesn't remove the ability that you have to be successful. In fact, it enables people and it empowers people.
And I'm on a very small HR team. And so the more knowledge we all have of one another's role and what we do, uh, individually, the better we'll be as a team. And subject matter experts are, or SMEs, as I like to say, are great. We need subject matter. We are all subject matter experts in HR. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't knowledge sharing which is a responsibility for all of us, because then, like, do you really want to be the person that can't take two weeks off, or in my case, five months off for a maternity leave, because nobody knows how to do your, that sounds miserable.
[00:44:31] Nicole Greer: You need to the babies, please.
[00:44:31] Traci Chernoff: That's right.
[00:44:33] Nicole Greer: Is there only going to be this big one time?
[00:44:35] Traci Chernoff: Guess what? Everything was fine. I know. It's true. And now they're so big. They're already months. But yeah, I mean, I came back and guess what? Everything was fine. It's not that big of a deal if something is a little bit different than you do, who cares?
Actually, in, in any case, when someone does something that you do every single day or every week, every month, a quarter, they might see a better way of doing it. Be open to that. Yeah, that's my advice.
[00:44:59] Nicole Greer: And what I'm also, uh, kind of having an aha about during our conversation. Um, because I love hanging out with Traci Chernoff
Here's the thing, you know, she said, we've, we've got HR. Uh, you said we have L and D, right? Um, and you said you can outsource it, you can do whatever, but we need to be an advocate for learning and development. L and D, everybody learning and development. Um, but then also there's kind of this idea of organizational development.
So, you, you might need an O. D. slant on things.
[00:45:31] Traci Chernoff: Now we're, yeah, now we're really talking. Yeah,
[00:45:33] Nicole Greer: so if HR people, even if it's just you and your generalist, you and your payroll person, or whatever your situation might be, um, you're still advocating kind of in the background. I can't do these things, because my 40 hours is full.
Um, but, um, we need to have a strategy in place for organization development for learning and development. Yeah.
[00:45:58] Traci Chernoff: So true. Succession planning, talent planning, that is like the pinnacle of everything. And actually every HR person, whether they're in payroll or operations or ER has to be able to think big and think broadly in that way, because there is an impact from everyone.
And I also think that in some cases you might be that best person. Maybe you're highly strategic and you love being able to think about, you know, the short term and the long term at the same time. And then it's just a matter of planning your backfill because then you have the opportunity to really focus on the, uh, organizational development and strategy that really sets businesses apart.
Like it, when we see all the time, businesses go through layoffs of thousands of people. That is most of the time a reflection of poor planning. If anything you know, not stretching your runway, not being fiscally responsible. And obviously that's not necessarily on the responsibility of the HR team. This is shared responsibility across the organization, but HR people are partners.
We have to partner with the business to really think about, okay, do we need to add 50 people to every department over the course of the year? Or do we think about our development gradually? Do we reserve ourselves in the event of a, of, uh, a bad storm or a bad year. I mean, there's so many things that as HR leaders like, you know, develop in their ability to be strategic or if someone is not strategic that they can pass off to someone else who is.
These are things that, you know, ultimately have a major impact on organizations.
[00:47:32] Nicole Greer: I just recently spoke at the Lower Cape Fear SHRM here in North Carolina. Yeah, great people over there. It's over on the beach here in North Carolina. And I did a strategic planning for human resources. And, uh, you know, that that's the other thing where you keep saying, but, you know, HR business partner, that's a very common thing we say in HR, but, um, I think sometimes we just have to believe that we're partners. Like, wait, I, I could. I can share with you some ideas about how, uh, you know, people operations, as you said earlier needs needs to be run. And I tell you, if, if, if an HR person has a strategic plan, you said, if they're a more strategic person, uh, and they walk in and they say to the VPs and all the people in the C suite, you know, here's what I have planned for the year.
What else do I need to plan on? But you are demonstrating, you know, I've got this plan. It's, I mean, it can really up your game as the partner that, that the C suite and the VPs really need. I mean, I mean, I just, I just think it's essential.
[00:48:38] Traci Chernoff: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I like that you mentioned demonstrating the behavior because that is so much of what we have to do and you know, sometimes it's about making small incremental changes rather than massive, you know, mountain moving approaches to change. And it's those incremental changes that really then like build this huge, um, you know, moment where you look back and you're like, wow, we really made a huge difference in the organization or we really were able to, you know, ultimately move mountains just by moving these models first.
So not to be too, uh, you know, to leaning on the analogies, but it really is true that you can make a lot more of a difference sometimes when you focus on those small behavior changes. Which are much, much easier to just do for people.
[00:49:27] Nicole Greer: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, um, I want to, I don't want to finish our podcast without talking about your podcast because I think your podcast is fantastic.
I just recently, uh, listened to a whole, um, episode, hold on, I'm trying to find it here, which one I listened to, HR Strategies for Addressing Tobacco Use in the Workplace. Okay. I'm
[00:49:51] Traci Chernoff: Mm hmm. With Dr. David Utley. Yeah.
[00:49:53] Nicole Greer: All right. So, uh, that's so ironic, uh, but so like timely. So I'm working with an organization right now and, uh, pretty new to this organization.
And so, Traci, I'm walking in there and everybody's standing outside like this. I mean, like everybody and, you know, don't take this as judgment. I'm just saying I care. See, that's the other thing about bringing the human back to HR. I really care about people. I'm like, of course, you need to stop smoking.
And so anyway, everybody is outside on break having a cigarette. And, um, but 1 of the things that Traci is doing on a very practical level on her website is talking about these subjects. How do I help people? And so you guys had the best talk. Um, so I took that podcast. I passed it on to this company.
You're welcome.
[00:50:41] Traci Chernoff: Thank you so much.
[00:50:42] Nicole Greer: And I was like, y'all, just listen to this. Let's get Pivot in here and see, see.
[00:50:47] Traci Chernoff: Yeah. Oh, he's amazing. That Dr. David Utley, he's a medical doctor with the surgical background and then, you know, this, uh, really astute focus on what was missing for people in workplaces. It's, it's really amazing.
So thank you for mentioning that. I definitely encourage your listeners to take a listen because smoking is a, it's a big challenge that employers have and, and that people, it's, it's fundamentally degrading health.
[00:51:14] Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, let me, let me get it right here. It is episode 184 on Bringing the Human back to Human Resources, uh, with Traci and it's Traci with an I.
Your mom, she gave you an I.
[00:51:26] Traci Chernoff: That's right.
[00:51:26] Nicole Greer: She's so good.
[00:51:27] Traci Chernoff: That's right.
[00:51:28] Nicole Greer: I love that about her.
[00:51:29] Traci Chernoff: Yes, she did. People are like, is it with a Y or EY? I'm like, neither. It's with an I.
[00:51:35] Nicole Greer: I hope that you have benefited from this podcast today talking with HR guru,Traci Chernoff. So, uh, will you tell us how we can find you other than your podcast that I just mentioned?
Where else can we find you?
[00:51:49] Traci Chernoff: Absolutely. Thank you so much, first of all, for having me on. It's been such a blast. And I, I, Oh, same. And I'm so excited to have you on my podcast too. Um, so your listeners can catch you there too, but you can find me at HRTraci. com. Again, that's T R A C I. And HRTraci is kind of the name of the game for everything on Instagram, on LinkedIn.
That's how you can find me. And, uh, I will say also my podcast, I release an episode every week, on Tuesdays. So if you would like to connect with me there, of course I have Q and A's and I have a YouTube so you can interact there or through Instagram DMs. I like to really engage with listeners as I know you do as well because they matter and people matter.
So thank you so much again for the opportunity.
[00:52:32] Nicole Greer: Give the babies a kiss for me. Tell them they're Aunt Nicole from Charlotte. I said, hello. That's right.
[00:52:40] Traci Chernoff: Auntie Nicole Yes. I will. Thank you so much.
[00:52:43] Nicole Greer: That's been another episode of the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. Uh, please go down to the comments and leave a little comment, a little love for us, a little feedback.
Maybe we need to improve. We're, we're game for that too. Uh, and then if you liked it, if you'd give us a thumbs up, we'd really appreciate it. You can check us out over on the Apple iTunes and then of course on the YouTube. So go all the places and share this with a friend. Thanks so much for listening.
Hope you all have a vibrant week.