Imagine this...our wounds and our suffering are so important that God became one with them in the person of Jesus Christ.
If that is true, then our stories–from the brightest moments to the darkest–suddenly matter more than we ever imagined. They become parables that only we can tell.
In this special episode, host Father John, program director of CALLED, is joined by guests Kathy Lorentz (CALLED Curriculum Team), David Plisky, (DeSales Media/CALLED Alumni) and Jesse Manibusan, (professional musician and CALLED Special Facilitator) to discuss the upcoming Attentive Heart Retreat this October 10-13, 2024 at Thomas Berry Place, Queens NY. At this inaugural retreat, attendees will have a chance to to pause, journey inward, and bravely embrace the wounds, victories and joys that may very well fill the chapters of a story YOU are meant to share. A few spots are still available for resident and local commuters: REGISTER HERE. For details on the concert (open to the public by RSVP) contact us at marketing@sundaytosunday.com.
For this special podcast edition we feature the music of guest Jesse Manibusan whose incredible faith filled music can be found at https://jessemanibusan.com/music .
If that is true, then our stories–from the brightest moments to the darkest–suddenly matter more than we ever imagined. They become parables that only we can tell.
In this special episode, host Father John, program director of CALLED, is joined by guests Kathy Lorentz (CALLED Curriculum Team), David Plisky, (DeSales Media/CALLED Alumni) and Jesse Manibusan, (professional musician and CALLED Special Facilitator) to discuss the upcoming Attentive Heart Retreat this October 10-13, 2024 at Thomas Berry Place, Queens NY. At this inaugural retreat, attendees will have a chance to to pause, journey inward, and bravely embrace the wounds, victories and joys that may very well fill the chapters of a story YOU are meant to share. A few spots are still available for resident and local commuters: REGISTER HERE. For details on the concert (open to the public by RSVP) contact us at marketing@sundaytosunday.com.
For this special podcast edition we feature the music of guest Jesse Manibusan whose incredible faith filled music can be found at https://jessemanibusan.com/music .
Creators & Guests
What is Sunday To Sunday Attentive Heart?
Sunday To Sunday Productions presents, Attentive Heart, a podcast founded by Father Mike Russo, and now hosted by CALLED founder Father John Gribowich. Join Fr. John and his guests for inspiring conversations about how we can find space in hectic daily lives for God, contemplative prayer, preaching, everyday spirituality that can inspire your own personal ministry journey. True to Father Russo's vision, we hope to make the Gospel come alive by sharing those whose creative discipleship inspires us to live our lives like a homily.
Welcome to the Attentive Heart podcast, where we explore how an integration of mind, body, and spirit make us whole and enable us to become more compassionate to ourselves and to others. I'm your host, John Gribewich, and today is a very special episode because I have a few people on the call today. I have Kathy Lorenz, who I share, a vocation with as a teacher, a fellow teacher with and minister at Sacred Heart Cathedral Prep in San Francisco. And, also, she plays a very important role with, the development of Called as a member of the curriculum team, something that we're gonna talk about on this podcast. And then along with Kathy and myself, we have Dave Pliskie and Jesse Manaboosen.
Father John:And both of them will explain who they are, but, I think we're having a very lively discussion about where we've been and where we're going. So let's start right first with you, Dave. Happy you just introduced yourself and just say what you're up to these days.
Dave Plisky:Yeah. Sure. Thanks for having me. Dave Plisky. I am the director of product innovation at DeSales Media, which is a a ministry of the church based in Brooklyn.
Dave Plisky:I am a husband and newly a father of my first child who's due in a few months, which is fun and scary and all those things. We, John, you and I get to work on a number of different projects together. So we're working right now on a webinar series, followed by a podcast called religion to reality, where we talk about trying to break down the silos that lead us to decompartmentalizing our spiritual lives. And even maybe getting rid of that term and rather rather than thinking of it as that, you know, thinking of it as fully integrated lives. You know?
Father John:Yeah.
Dave Plisky:And so, yeah, those are some of the things I'm working on. Thanks for having me.
Father John:I think you meant to prevent compartmentalizing, not compartmentalizing.
Dave Plisky:Thank you. Yes.
Father John:Something that we're all very good at doing at times, compartmentalizing our lives.
Dave Plisky:Breaking down silos. Yeah. Yeah.
Father John:Which I think is maybe at the heart of what we're all talking about here and what we're, hoping to, be able to address more in our lives. Jesse, tell us who you are and what you're up to.
Jesse Manibusan:My name is, Jesse Manaboosin, Sonomi as captain, and, I I am from the island of Guam now living on the island of Alameda in Northern California. I have, I'm a father of 3 grown children, 7 grandchildren, and one great grandchild. And I've been traveling the country and the world as a, as an encourager, a storyteller, a humorist, working primarily in churches, schools, universities, and anywhere where people will invite me. I'm actually gonna be in the Marshall Islands next year. That's, which is sort of related to, you know, my my ancestors.
Jesse Manibusan:I'm a a composer, a songwriter, for OCP, and I've worked with Kathy in cultivating compassion as well as a veteran 12 stepper. And I'm just really happy to be here.
Father John:Amazing. Awesome. You know, it's this I'm just looking at the, the tiles here of of the 3 of you and just just amazed in how the holy spirit works. Right? I mean, I I know we say that in lots of ways, but I could never have predicted, however many years ago that I'd be, in a room with, 3 incredible people from the 3 different parts of my life.
Father John:And, I think every point converged with this program called Called, which is really at the heart of how we are listening to the spirit. And, maybe as a way to kinda get us talking about that, we can maybe begin this by showing and explaining what the impetus was for the Called program. And maybe I'll just start with that. You know, there was this whole initiative that was brought on by a priest named Mike Rousseau who want to increase an awareness of how preaching could be better in the Catholic church and beyond for that matter. And, he had a background in communication and media, so he used his skill set to go around the country and interview priests, deacons, laymen and women who were very much active in preaching and presenting the faith in different ways and showing how, a homily can be pieced together and how it could be compelling for those who listen to it.
Father John:Mike, unfortunately, died, from a, a brain injury, and it was, it really shook us to the core. But it it propelled us to think about how was the spirit working through Mike, and what was that same spirit calling us to do moving forward from his passing. And it brought us to a place of realizing that if we want to bring a better awareness of how preaching could be better, how it could be more compelling, more authentic, It's something that is far more expansive than just confined to those who do it, let's say, formally from the pulpit. And that's why we brought in lots of different voices from lots of different walks of life, but all with the same purpose to think that, they're they have been called to respond to the grace of the spirit in their own life and to share it with other others what that looks like, and most particularly, how that grace and how that spirit works through our wounds, sufferings, hurts, our brokenness, and along with our desires and our joys, because that is the most compelling story that can be shared to show how god is alive, how Jesus is not just someone who from history, but is alive right now in and through each and every one of us.
Father John:So that's really where this whole impetus of call came from. It start from just focusing on the pulpit, and now we've moved it, let's say, to the pews. And, we all have a role within the church because we're all been called already, but how what what is the extent of that call, and how can we go further? So I just wanna leave that as a background. So with that in mind, let's just start with, Cathy because, Cathy is the one who I brought into this endeavor initially, from our work together as campus ministers and teachers at Sacred Heart Cathedral.
Father John:So, Cathy, what is called meant to you? Like, what is your involvement with this program? What does it what does it mean to you, and and and what are you hoping, especially as we're getting ready for our first in person retreat, the attentive heart retreat?
Kahy Lorentz:That's a great question, John. And I I think I wanna say that what this program has brought into me, the curriculum team and all of the people that have been in part of the cohort and working on the backside of this program is to really help me expand and understand what preaching means and who is a preacher, who is called to be a preacher. As a woman in the church, one might think that I don't have a very big role in that, but I would always disagree with that. I'm not just a well, let me say this. I am a a teacher of high school students, and I preach every single day.
Kahy Lorentz:My last class literally just finished. And today, it was about listening to the Holy Spirit and really paying attention to what is calling you, what is backing you to begin to trust that voice and to understand that we all have it because we are human. So that sense of common humanity. And what does it mean for us to be not only human, but to be humans who are vulnerable, who share weaknesses and struggles. And today, in my class, the students were voicing what their weaknesses are, and I was doing the best thing that I could do.
Kahy Lorentz:Jesse, you'll you can help me with this. Helping them understand that we are human. We're all suffering, and we need to take good care of ourselves to be compassionate for ourselves first. So for me, this call program has really helped me put these different pieces of my life together and understand that the more we can help each other identify with the voice of the Holy Spirit that speaks to all of us, not just to some of us, and then to feel confident in sharing that with others.
Father John:That's great. That's so good. I always like to say that, Kathy is a a mystic, and I like to say that with great confidence because I think that it's important for us to realize that mystics are in our midst. And, and and she brings to, this whole called program a full wealth of experience of just being able to have delved into so many different different senses of spirituality, prayer, just different philosophy e even to that that's rooted in social science. So there's just so much that that Kathy brings to this, and also just the practical skills of how to present well as someone who, has worked with, speech, debate, TED Talks.
Father John:I mean, so Kathy brings a wealth to the table and and and a very holistic way of understanding authenticity, vulnerability, and how that can be presented in a compelling way. Dave Pliskey, I've known for quite some time now, like, he was saying, our involvement with the sales media. And, he was someone who I personally invited to be part of the called pilot, which started back in January of 2024. So, Dave, how about you just tell us a little bit about, what you thought your involvement with that pilot was going to look like and then what it really was? How will we look at it that way?
Dave Plisky:Yeah. Sure. I thought that I would be I thought that it was going to be kind of a a journey, but mostly kind of a a an online course type of feeling. And I thought that it would be, low effort on my part, to be honest with you. It's one of the reasons I said yes even though I had a lot going on.
Dave Plisky:But, what I found was something much, much deeper, because of the just the the quality of the curriculum that you guys have put together had had led us into these just extremely reflective, positions and and places in our in our own lives, off of the, the kind of in between the sessions where we got to spend time on our lives, reflecting on scripture, reflecting on our experience, and and kind of wondering where the 2 connect. So that when we would come together, it just led to extremely deep discussion, in places I did not expect to be able to go with someone with people who I had never met in person. And it was a really powerful experience, journey journeying with people, understanding their stories, understanding maybe how those how those play into my stories, further further breaking down those silos, but, you know, not just in my own life, but but between people, you know, bringing bringing it really felt like when we say community, what we're really talking about is is a is an a yearning for unity, and it and it felt like that. It felt it felt like we were getting there.
Father John:Wow. That's really cool. Especially, we, just kindly just feel that the narrative is that things are just always polarized, raw in our camps, on our tribes. So that's really great that you were able to experience something like that of a of a common union, a real community, a communion. So, Jesse, you were humble in the way you you introduce yourself as you always are, but you you're the rock star in our midst.
Father John:I've I've known of you since I was in high school, be singing your songs. I I think I've learned how to play guitar by learning your music. So, you know, you have been at this for a long time, and while you may not be a priest, you are clearly a preacher in so many ways and a darn good storyteller and also just a person who, really, wears his heart and his soul and his sleeve in a way to, to show your vulnerability and and how we are all in this together. You know? So what was it about called that could possibly, push you even further than really who you are because you have brought so much to the table?
Father John:Was there something about it that enlightened you, or did you feel as if you were bringing something to the whole experience or a little bit of both?
Jesse Manibusan:Hey. Thanks so much, John. I appreciate that encouragement and affirmation. Being one of 9 children growing up, being raised by parents who were child survivors of war, literally formed who I am. And, I, you know, I I I'm just so grateful that as much trauma as I was raised in, I was raised with a lot of love and encouragement at the same time.
Jesse Manibusan:So, the thing about Kald was not so much that I was bringing anything to it. I was so encouraged that there was something like called that was inviting people from every walk of life to come and talk story, which is a Pacific Islander way of saying it. Knowing that Jesus' greatest moments for me has been in the parables in telling the story, which would help awaken the desire of others to tell their story. And and I think that that just being invited into call was a great moment of encouragement for me that this was happening, that this was happening at all because I've been in this work for, like, 45 years, and I've literally, was raised by the church as a altar server, a liturgical composer, a pastoral associate. And so I have been behind the scenes where people are excited about faith, and I've been behind the scenes where people say, I think Jesus left the building.
Jesse Manibusan:So to be able to be included, invited into this beautiful experience of called and to see it develop and to be made accessible is, like, so right and so perfectly timed, especially in our times in the world. So yeah. Yeah.
Dave Plisky:Beautifully said, Jesse. That is that is so spot on. Like, that that this is just such a beacon of hope in the church that that I think a lot of us are looking for right now.
Father John:Awesome. So good. Well, you know, the pilot program that you were both a part of was all virtual, all online. And now we have our 1st in person events, which, both of you will be at, of course, along with Kathy and myself. And, so let's just talk about what we're looking forward to.
Father John:So this is October 10th 13th, Thomas Berry Place, Jamaica Estates, Queens, New York. This is going to be, the meeting of, the century. If anything, the meeting of the year. It's first off, it's gonna be great to have certain people who've only known each other virtually to be physically in the same space. That's always a really, you know, amazing moment to have to behold.
Father John:But let's talk about really what we did during the pilot and what we're looking to do at the retreat. I always like to say that, my, colleague and mentor, Kathy, is the master of practice. She has a whole slew of practices, that she has brought to the called program and that she's bringing to the retreat, the attentive heart retreat. So, Cathy, maybe you could talk about that. What is the importance of practice?
Father John:And maybe just give us an example of of a practice that you have thought has been very important in cultivating a culture of preaching that's far more expansive than how we normally think of it to be.
Kahy Lorentz:Thank you, John, first for your wonderful compliments. It just feels so good to be here, guys. So much fun. A second, I can't help but being influenced by the classes that I taught just earlier today. I think that the whole idea that it is possible for us to use our own stories that that the Holy Spirit is literally kind of using us and what we're what we have experienced to not be victims of that, but to tell a new story, to tell maybe this isn't just the way that I was hurt.
Kahy Lorentz:This is the way that I was saved. Brene Brown often says something about vulnerability that when you ask people to talk about strength, they talk about their weaknesses. And and so I think that, giving ourselves the this community within which we can be vulnerable and listen to to feel the joy that is present when we talk about the ways in which we have been healed and what is possible. So in terms of practice, I think taking that time and space to be able to just sit and breathe and be present to what is in the room. I mentioned common humanity earlier today, but that is and I think everyone here can testify that understanding that we are not just human, but we are human so that we can be brothers and sisters and be, as you were saying earlier today, Dave, one with another to feel that unity and community.
Kahy Lorentz:And all of us recognize that the easiest, most facile way that can happen is when we are practicing together. And it could be as some simple as sitting in silence together, breathing with each other and for each other, praying. I mean, the practices of just being with our own thoughts and allowing ourselves to feel encouraged that we are not the only ones who have been down this path before, that others have been down this path and have survived. And this, community of compassion that is what called is and longs to continue to be is something that I believe, for me, I am enriched not just by being able to be a presenter, but by every person who will be present. So
Father John:That's great. So good. And talking about that whole notion of common humanity, I can give you a very practical example of what that looks like. Most mornings, I like to check the news, and I intentionally go to, let's just say, a more, liberal progressive, news source, and then I intentionally go to a more conservative, news source. And, I'd like to see what stories does each one, put at as their headlines or what slant they they have.
Father John:But the thing I always find interesting is that the stories that they both report on and pretty much in the exact same way are the stories that deal with, suffering and hurt with pain. Like, those are the stories that somehow get picked up by everyone and don't necessarily require, some type of ideological slant. Mean, I know that everything is not, immune, from that. But, I mean, I just find that interesting that when it comes to suffering and pain and tragedy, we like to be able to be as, open and as nonpolarizing as possible because we all understand in some way what it means to suffer. And that's kinda getting at the heart, I think, of what you what you were just saying and and really what we're trying to bring all of us to, an awakening of, that that's where the point of contact lies, not on our differences or or opinions or or even our the way that we understand doctrinal issues or whatnot.
Father John:It's it's really on our personal stories and how we've had to, engage with, the things that we wish we didn't have to, which are those points of suffering and pain. So so, Dave, what about you? So you I know that you're looking forward to the retreat. What is it you're looking forward to, or what do you wanna maybe you could comment on any practice that maybe you've already picked up on from your time in the pilot or what you're looking forward to maybe growing in with the retreat coming up.
Dave Plisky:Yeah. I I really am looking forward to it. You know, Jesus equated love of God with love of neighbor. Right? That that's how we express our love for God is is in is in how we love one another.
Dave Plisky:And so, you know, you guys wrote a banner paragraph in one of your in one of your marketing emails. I wanna read a part of it because this is what I'm looking forward to. What you said was, what we realized is that each person in the church and even outside of it are called to, quote, preach. While preaching is often thought to be the thing that the priest does on Sunday, how a person expresses to others the healing presence of God in one's life is a form of preaching. And then you go on to say, this affirms the reality of the incarnation, God becoming man and the person of Jesus Christ, and that matter matters.
Dave Plisky:The stuff of our lives, especially our wounds and suffering, is so important that God has become one with it. This perspective in turn reveals that our lives are already homilies ready to be preached. The more of us committed to preaching our lives to those that we encounter can and will influence those preaching from the pulpit. Sorry. I'm getting a call.
Dave Plisky:And so I just man. Like, if I if I was able to and you kinda said this, but if I was able to to feel like I was encountering the love of Christ through the love of of other people just through Zoom in the pilot, how much more will I be able to do that in, you know, the days that we spend together in person? That that's what I'm looking forward to.
Father John:Yeah. Wow. Thanks, Dave. I didn't I didn't even pay you to to say all that, but thank you. I feel like I should nap for crying.
Father John:Anyway, you know, we we only have a little bit of time left, but, of course, I would Jesse, I I almost wanna give you the last word here because you just bring a wealth of so many different experiences that you've had in in ministry as you already mentioned. What could you possibly be looking for more in what we're about to embark upon with this retreat, and what do you hope to bring to it? I mean, you are what we're calling a a special facilitator. You're you're part of the call team. If anything, you you are a true ambassador of what we're what we're about.
Father John:So what are you what are you looking forward to the retreat, and what are you hoping to bring?
Jesse Manibusan:To be able to meet in real life is a whole different experience than, being on, you know, these electronic, systems. I'm going to listen to primarily listen. I think if Jesus, you know, in all of his work would say, hey. I heard you. What do you need?
Jesse Manibusan:Open my eyes. Open my ears. I see you. So I'm going to to begin with just listening as I do with all of my work. I ask the people that I serve, what is it that you need?
Jesse Manibusan:What is it that you need that your people need? Because I think maybe that's the beauty of the of the holy one of Jesus who simply says, I'm here. I don't know if I have any solutions, but I'm gonna accompany you. And in that accompaniment, we're gonna grow something remarkable, transforming, healing, and joyful. And so that's what I'm looking for in this face to face in real life meeting.
Father John:Amen.
Dave Plisky:You see? This is why I'm looking forward to it because it's people like Jesse that show up to these things, and it's awesome.
Kahy Lorentz:People like Jesse and Valomar Jansen and, hopefully, some artists. I am so excited about the concert that's going to take place on Saturday night, which Jesse will be part of.
Father John:Actually, how about we, maybe we could end our time with that, Kathy. How about you talk about a little bit about, Valomar and and and what we're expecting as far as, the retreat with that
Kahy Lorentz:with that Well, I've I've been I've been very blessed with Valimar and Jesse in my life as close friends and family. And, when I get involved with something, Jesse knows. I always wanna, let's bring the whole family on this on this journey together. And so Valomar and Jesse said yes to be part of the team. And then, obviously, it makes sense.
Kahy Lorentz:Let's have a concert. Let's do it on Saturday night. Valimar Jansen has been traveling around the country doing these remarkable, services and plays around sister servant of god, sister Thea Bowman. And so as I mentioned that to some of the people at the, Thomas Berry place, they said, well, you know, we have a sister Thea Bowman Choir close by. So now the sister Thea Bowman Choir is going to be joining, Val and Jesse at the concert on Saturday night.
Kahy Lorentz:And all of it has the mark of not only the holy spirit, but, obviously, sister Thea Bowman, who is making her presence very well known. And the concert may take place in where the sister Thea Bowman room at the Thomas Berry place. So I feel really excited about that.
Father John:Amazing. Well, I just wanna thank you all for this time together. Nice little discussion. Also, a little bit of a promotional plug for what we're about to embark upon. You could always learn more about Called and the attentive heart retreat in the show notes.
Father John:You can also just be able to go to the Sunday to Sunday.com and be able to know more about what we're up to. And, very much looking forward to, seeing you all 3 in person together very soon and looking forward to seeing who the holy spirit also brings along. I know there's names on that list of people who I've never even heard of, so that's gonna be amazing that people have already heard about this, retreat and have, taken the the the, the plunge, so to speak, to, give us a shot, but not really to give us, but really ultimately to see how God is working in and through their lives and how they themselves reveal the very face of Jesus Christ in our midst. Thank you so much, and, looking forward to seeing you in a couple weeks.
Jesse Manibusan:Thank you. Alright. Thank you. Good to see you.
Father John:Thank you. Thanks. Stay. Yeah. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Attentive Heart podcast.
Father John:We hope that you were able to find it helpful in your spiritual journey and practice. This podcast is produced in collaboration with Sunday to Sunday productions and the witness podcast. If you enjoy this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please subscribe and share it with friends.
Hold On To Love:To love. There is a season of gladness. Hold on to love
Jesse Manibusan:When pain and confusion seem endless,
Hold On To Love:hold on to love.
Jesse Manibusan:We cultivate healing through kindness.
Hold On To Love:Hold on to love. Hold on to love where hope is found. Hold on to love where joy abounds.
Hold On ToLove:Hold on to love where grace and mercy is overflowing.