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What does it mean to heal across generations? In this deeply personal episode, Rachel and Colin sit down with Waylon, who opens up about his journey through alcoholism, receiving an ADHD diagnosis, and reconnecting with his Indigenous identity. Through raw reflection and cultural insight, they explore sobriety not just as a personal path—but as a reclamation of self, spirit, and community
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- (00:00) - Introduction and featured guest Waylon
- (04:57) - ADHD Diagnosis and Its Impact
- (06:54) - The Power of Sobriety and Community
- (09:41) - Treatment and Recovery
- (19:26) - The Importance of Self-Examination
- (21:43) - Relapse and Impulsive behaviors
- (24:07) - Genocide Survivors
- (33:43) - Reflections on Community and Identity
- (36:39) - The Role of Heritage and Culture
- (40:26) - The Power of Storytelling
Creators and Guests
What is Sober Banter?
Sober Banter, a podcast about life without alcohol, is real, relatable, and never boring. Hosts Rachel and Colin share honest conversations about sobriety with humor, heart, and a touch of chaos.
Colin (00:00:06):
Hi, welcome to Sober Banter.
Colin (00:00:08):
I'm Colin.
Colin (00:00:09):
And I'm Rachel.
Colin (00:00:10):
And today our guest is... My name is Waylon and I'm an alcoholic.
Colin (00:00:14):
How about that?
Colin (00:00:14):
Okay.
Rachel (00:00:15):
I'm Rachel and I'm an alcoholic.
Colin (00:00:16):
I'm also an alcoholic named Colin.
Colin (00:00:20):
What was your...
Rachel (00:00:23):
What was your anonymous joke?
Colin (00:00:26):
It still hasn't happened organically yet.
Colin (00:00:28):
I wanted to be like, when I'm around old friends and they're like, oh, you don't drink anymore?
Colin (00:00:32):
What are you in AA?
Colin (00:00:33):
And I'd just be like, only anonymously.
Colin (00:00:36):
But I've never been able to say it organically.
Colin (00:00:38):
Or I'll never tell, right?
Waylon (00:00:41):
I'm in a secret club.
Waylon (00:00:42):
I usually do that.
Waylon (00:00:43):
I'm in a secret club that I can't talk about.
Waylon (00:00:46):
And that creates so much mystery,
Waylon (00:00:49):
actually,
Waylon (00:00:49):
for some sober folks that they're like,
Waylon (00:00:52):
what is this secret club?
Waylon (00:00:54):
And I'm like, I can't tell you.
Waylon (00:00:56):
You can only get yourself in there by your own actions.
Rachel (00:01:00):
It's a club I never knew I would...
Rachel (00:01:05):
want to be a part of.
Rachel (00:01:06):
My grandma and grandpa both went through AA, and I really thought I'd be the exception.
Rachel (00:01:12):
I don't think I had a choice once alcohol went in my body.
Rachel (00:01:15):
You were a legacy, basically.
Rachel (00:01:19):
The legacy.
Rachel (00:01:19):
We were talking about being the creative, and my farthest I went was high school newspaper.
Rachel (00:01:26):
And I was freshman.
Rachel (00:01:28):
The teacher was like, this is a dying...
Waylon (00:01:33):
industry oh my gosh and you being that in 2012 imagine now imagine if you will 1997
Waylon (00:01:40):
I think it was 1997
Waylon (00:01:46):
And I'm 19.
Waylon (00:01:49):
There was a flood in Grand Forks, North Dakota.
Waylon (00:01:52):
I'll just set the tone here a little bit.
Waylon (00:01:56):
And so Grand Forks,
Waylon (00:01:57):
North Dakota,
Waylon (00:01:59):
in 1997,
Waylon (00:01:59):
April 1997,
Waylon (00:01:59):
the entire city of Grand Forks got evacuated.
Waylon (00:02:07):
I don't know if y'all are familiar with this,
Waylon (00:02:09):
but it's kind of tied to that Red River of the North,
Waylon (00:02:12):
right?
Waylon (00:02:12):
The Red River that flows up north.
Waylon (00:02:14):
You guys are in Texas, right?
Waylon (00:02:16):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:02:17):
I have family and grapevine, right?
Waylon (00:02:19):
Just to give a little perspective.
Waylon (00:02:22):
I know exactly.
Waylon (00:02:23):
That's why I said it.
Waylon (00:02:23):
Cause I'm like, Hey, I know, I know the lay of the land.
Waylon (00:02:28):
Okay.
Waylon (00:02:28):
For perspective.
Waylon (00:02:29):
And we can, we, we can totally use this.
Waylon (00:02:31):
My uncle stays at the wind star casino and then we'll drive down to the track to
Waylon (00:02:38):
watch the race there.
Waylon (00:02:40):
Or he'll drive from Tallaker all the way down to the stadium there,
Waylon (00:02:45):
the AT&T Stadium where those big football guys play.
Waylon (00:02:49):
And that guy,
Waylon (00:02:49):
Jerry Jones,
Waylon (00:02:50):
where he owns that stadium over there,
Waylon (00:02:52):
got some oil money and all that good stuff.
Waylon (00:02:54):
Beautiful.
Waylon (00:02:55):
Anyway, so that's part of my story, right?
Waylon (00:02:57):
That's part of my story here is I'm tied to all that stuff.
Waylon (00:03:02):
I'm tied to the oil in North Dakota.
Waylon (00:03:05):
There was a flood in North Dakota in 1997 where this angel investor or this angel
Waylon (00:03:11):
something or another,
Waylon (00:03:12):
Joan Kroc,
Waylon (00:03:13):
like the owner of McDonald's,
Waylon (00:03:15):
Joan Kroc gifted every resident of Grand Forks,
Waylon (00:03:19):
North Dakota.
Waylon (00:03:21):
I think it was like $500 or $1,500.
Waylon (00:03:23):
I can't remember.
Waylon (00:03:23):
Anyways, this was the late 1900s, children.
Waylon (00:03:32):
So it was a really different time, right?
Waylon (00:03:36):
Newspapers actually really existed still.
Waylon (00:03:38):
And the internet had not taken off the way it had taken off.
Waylon (00:03:42):
So Twitter wasn't really Twitter.
Waylon (00:03:45):
Facebook wasn't really Facebook.
Waylon (00:03:47):
These things had not even really just being formed at this time.
Waylon (00:03:53):
Amazon just moved into Grand Forks at the time in 1997.
Waylon (00:03:58):
So they acquired Acme Electric Tool Crib of the North.
Waylon (00:04:02):
as one of their first acquisitions.
Waylon (00:04:04):
And that was a supply chain store.
Waylon (00:04:08):
So anyways,
Waylon (00:04:08):
why I'm telling you this,
Waylon (00:04:09):
why I'm going way back in my memory banks is because newspapers,
Waylon (00:04:13):
journalism,
Waylon (00:04:14):
all of that stuff has been a part of my life.
Waylon (00:04:17):
I was 14 when I got my first byline,
Waylon (00:04:19):
so I can relate with you in the high school newspapers thing.
Waylon (00:04:23):
And then in 95, when I was graduating from high school,
Waylon (00:04:29):
I said, we should start a newspaper here for the high school.
Waylon (00:04:33):
And that same, the same ideas or the same BS that your teacher gave you.
Waylon (00:04:38):
Oh, it's going to cost that cost.
Waylon (00:04:43):
Maybe he was paying out of his pocket because look at us now where Department of
Waylon (00:04:47):
Education is near destruction.
Waylon (00:04:51):
You know,
Waylon (00:04:51):
you guys are living in beautiful Texas where I'll just leave it nicely,
Waylon (00:04:56):
kind of tie a nice little bow on the fact that journalism was a big part of my life.
Waylon (00:05:03):
And so these podcasts and my voice and being able to share these ideas and these stories,
Waylon (00:05:10):
very personal stories.
Waylon (00:05:15):
is really what i do but i don't know how to get paid for that anymore because of my
Waylon (00:05:20):
alcoholism and because of my adhd which i just got diagnosed with recently
Waylon (00:05:25):
literally like this week so this is a big this week yeah yeah yeah wow i can share
Waylon (00:05:32):
the details with you if you'd like right so i was like how do you feel well i'll be
Waylon (00:05:38):
honest
Waylon (00:05:40):
Well, I didn't.
Waylon (00:05:41):
I've been struggling with this for 20 years.
Waylon (00:05:44):
How did no one post this exactly?
Waylon (00:05:46):
How come there was no community support for a guy who was fumbling and his community,
Waylon (00:05:53):
his tribe,
Waylon (00:05:53):
right?
Waylon (00:05:54):
I'm going to use that too.
Waylon (00:05:55):
We can get into that because Seth Godin is one of my favorite authors that I just
Waylon (00:05:59):
started to feel like I wanted to vomit after I saw him talking about a tribe
Waylon (00:06:04):
because that's a real thing in American Indian culture.
Waylon (00:06:07):
communities okay yeah we're small we're small we're barely two million in statistics
Waylon (00:06:15):
We don't even register as black, white, or Asian.
Waylon (00:06:18):
We register as something else.
Waylon (00:06:20):
We don't get a voice, right?
Waylon (00:06:21):
We don't get those voices like y'all do, right?
Waylon (00:06:24):
In Texas, we don't get to amplify.
Waylon (00:06:27):
And I have to cling on to folks like yourselves because love is real.
Waylon (00:06:32):
Love is powerful, red and blue.
Waylon (00:06:34):
I'm looking at your colors, right?
Waylon (00:06:36):
You guys are balanced and I love that.
Waylon (00:06:38):
Oh, wow.
Rachel (00:06:39):
That was not a purpose.
Waylon (00:06:41):
I know.
Waylon (00:06:41):
No, it's okay.
Waylon (00:06:42):
It's the planet.
Waylon (00:06:43):
It's the way,
Waylon (00:06:44):
that's what I'm trying to speak to you on is there's bigger things happening in the universe,
Waylon (00:06:51):
right?
Waylon (00:06:52):
And us individuals who can actually share our wisdom,
Waylon (00:06:56):
we can share our knowledge,
Waylon (00:06:57):
we can share our experience,
Waylon (00:06:59):
strength,
Waylon (00:06:59):
and hope with one another to stay sober,
Waylon (00:07:02):
right?
Waylon (00:07:02):
To tie it back to that sobriety piece, right?
Waylon (00:07:05):
Because we are bantering about sobriety.
Waylon (00:07:08):
And I think that's a big key.
Rachel (00:07:11):
I was going to...
Rachel (00:07:13):
I didn't seek to get diagnosed with ADHD.
Rachel (00:07:16):
It was my last ditch effort of not wanting to give up alcohol.
Rachel (00:07:21):
I'm like, I'm obviously mentally ill.
Rachel (00:07:24):
The drinking is not the problem.
Rachel (00:07:25):
The drugging is not the problem.
Rachel (00:07:26):
And I wasn't honest about either.
Rachel (00:07:27):
I was like, I need to see a psychiatrist.
Rachel (00:07:30):
It's my mental health.
Rachel (00:07:31):
And it was by seeing a psychiatrist who ended up help getting me sober because he
Rachel (00:07:38):
put me on Naltrexone because he told me if I really was drinking,
Rachel (00:07:41):
like I said,
Rachel (00:07:42):
This wouldn't really affect me.
Rachel (00:07:43):
And of course I'm sitting there really struggling, taking pills, not taking pills.
Rachel (00:07:47):
And we found out I had ADHD.
Rachel (00:07:50):
The reason I'd asked about the relief is when I heard I'd been struggling with that
Rachel (00:07:56):
my whole life,
Rachel (00:07:57):
it just felt like it makes sense why I struggled even in writing because I would start,
Rachel (00:08:01):
stop,
Rachel (00:08:01):
start,
Rachel (00:08:01):
stop,
Rachel (00:08:02):
start,
Rachel (00:08:02):
stop.
Rachel (00:08:02):
I have lots of beginnings.
Rachel (00:08:04):
I have millions of beginnings everywhere and some middles.
Rachel (00:08:07):
It's putting it together I extremely struggle with.
Rachel (00:08:10):
But when I feel a little scatterbrained, I at least feel like I'm not broken.
Rachel (00:08:15):
This is something I've had my whole life and I've just,
Rachel (00:08:18):
now I'm learning,
Rachel (00:08:19):
okay,
Rachel (00:08:19):
there's actually some tools or things that I can use to deal with it.
Waylon (00:08:22):
It was a lot of ups and downs and I'll just take you there, right?
Waylon (00:08:25):
I'll take you there because literally it was a Zoom call like this.
Waylon (00:08:30):
And I was supposed to go in, but my ADHD was like, do I go in?
Waylon (00:08:35):
I should be there by now.
Waylon (00:08:37):
Oh, so I checked in with my therapist.
Waylon (00:08:41):
I sent an email and I said, should I be on my way over there?
Waylon (00:08:44):
And then she was like, you're okay.
Waylon (00:08:47):
Here's the link.
Waylon (00:08:47):
You can jump on a Zoom call.
Waylon (00:08:50):
And so I'm like, oh, thank God.
Waylon (00:08:51):
So I felt better.
Waylon (00:08:53):
Usually that's going to trigger a lot of different stuff that's going to keep me like that.
Waylon (00:09:00):
I'm going through Wayland's sheets here.
Waylon (00:09:03):
If I have the sheet here and this is Wayland's stuff,
Waylon (00:09:06):
this is the analysis,
Waylon (00:09:07):
this is the evaluation report.
Waylon (00:09:10):
I saw so much of my mess.
Waylon (00:09:15):
So much of that starts and stops.
Waylon (00:09:17):
I actually have a poem called Starts and Stops.
Waylon (00:09:22):
So this is kismet.
Waylon (00:09:24):
This is supposed to be happening.
Waylon (00:09:26):
I'm supposed to be having a conversation with two great individuals from Texas, right?
Waylon (00:09:33):
Because I have friends in Deep Ellum, right?
Waylon (00:09:35):
I have friends in Panther City.
Waylon (00:09:39):
I have friends in Holt.
Waylon (00:09:41):
I have people all over this place, right?
Waylon (00:09:44):
And some of them I met in a crazy room.
Waylon (00:09:47):
Little, they used to be smoke-filled rooms.
Waylon (00:09:50):
And so I just kind of want to maybe even take a step back into one of the first
Waylon (00:09:57):
times I went to treatment.
Waylon (00:10:01):
Because I don't know if any of you went to treatment, but I'm a low-bottom junkie.
Colin (00:10:06):
Take us through that because our perspective is we never went to rehab or treatment.
Colin (00:10:12):
I'm a low bottom drunk.
Colin (00:10:13):
You guys are just babies.
Waylon (00:10:14):
You guys are just,
Rachel (00:10:16):
I don't think I was low bottom,
Rachel (00:10:18):
but you know,
Rachel (00:10:19):
my life,
Rachel (00:10:19):
I mean,
Rachel (00:10:20):
I wanted to take my life.
Rachel (00:10:21):
It was again, I'm mentally ill.
Waylon (00:10:23):
And that's normal, right?
Waylon (00:10:25):
That's our new normal.
Waylon (00:10:26):
Everyone is mentally ill in this country.
Waylon (00:10:30):
That's why we glorify a cannibal.
Waylon (00:10:32):
Jeffrey Dahmer, Netflix.
Waylon (00:10:34):
It's in front of us all the time.
Waylon (00:10:36):
We can't get it out of it.
Waylon (00:10:39):
And glorification of murder.
Waylon (00:10:42):
We're insane.
Waylon (00:10:43):
Even high level.
Waylon (00:10:45):
We're pushing for the death penalty in the federal sector of things.
Waylon (00:10:50):
So that's glorified.
Waylon (00:10:51):
That's going to be televised.
Waylon (00:10:53):
They need ratings.
Waylon (00:10:56):
We need ratings.
Waylon (00:10:57):
Your sober banter needs ratings.
Waylon (00:11:00):
So you can edit that,
Waylon (00:11:02):
but I kind of want to just say that little piece right there is true,
Waylon (00:11:08):
firm,
Waylon (00:11:08):
honest,
Waylon (00:11:09):
kind of.
Waylon (00:11:09):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:11:10):
But it's a sickness and we all want to be ill.
Waylon (00:11:13):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:11:14):
i was gonna say the whole mission of this is share that we recover share real
Rachel (00:11:18):
authentic stories share we got sober on the same day and we've stayed sober i don't
Colin (00:11:23):
know how well and there's also we believe there's no one right way to be sober
Colin (00:11:28):
because we've met a few people or been in a few rooms where they're convinced that
Colin (00:11:32):
there's only one way to do it i don't believe that i think
Colin (00:11:36):
Everyone's their own individual and finds their own path.
Colin (00:11:39):
But there's more than one ways to get sober.
Colin (00:11:42):
And I want people to know that who are struggling.
Colin (00:11:44):
And that's why we have a lot of guests on it and you because I'm interested to hear
Colin (00:11:48):
your story because everyone is different and how they found
Rachel (00:11:54):
their end goal but I should have gone to treatment I really do believe that like I
Rachel (00:11:58):
had severe DT and I had a two-year-old that was the only reason I probably didn't
Rachel (00:12:03):
look at going to treatment and because I went to AA I squeezed that desire chip so
Rachel (00:12:08):
hard I swear it imprinted my hand because I didn't know what else to do I was like
Rachel (00:12:12):
all they told me don't drink till the next meeting tomorrow and I was like okay
Rachel (00:12:17):
I actually thought you, if I would have drank, I wouldn't have been allowed back.
Rachel (00:12:21):
I thought I had to not drink to be able to go back.
Rachel (00:12:23):
And the room felt so, there was something I wanted so badly.
Rachel (00:12:29):
But looking back, the amount I was drinking handles.
Rachel (00:12:32):
I mean, we were drinking 24-7.
Rachel (00:12:33):
We don't have to obsess about that anymore.
Waylon (00:12:37):
Isn't that a beautiful thing that we don't have to obsess about that anymore?
Waylon (00:12:40):
Because that's kind of where I start to really think that, yeah, war stories is one thing.
Waylon (00:12:47):
And that's not what I would go to the rooms for, right?
Waylon (00:12:49):
That's not what I would go to the rooms for.
Waylon (00:12:51):
I would go for the experience,
Waylon (00:12:54):
the strength and the hope and for the template and that our format where we started
Waylon (00:13:00):
off with a prayer,
Waylon (00:13:01):
you know,
Waylon (00:13:02):
and non-secular and all that stuff can,
Waylon (00:13:05):
whatever,
Waylon (00:13:05):
right?
Waylon (00:13:06):
It's getting really weird to the point where if I say I want to pray in my own way,
Waylon (00:13:15):
It's going to get scary here pretty soon because our beliefs are being challenged, right?
Waylon (00:13:20):
Our freedoms are being challenged, actually.
Waylon (00:13:23):
And so that freedom that I got from this book that was written in the 30s,
Waylon (00:13:31):
And for a writer, I feel like I'm a writer because all of this just comes pouring out of me.
Waylon (00:13:37):
I've been sitting and talking with you beautiful individuals and everything that
Waylon (00:13:44):
we're talking about,
Waylon (00:13:45):
all the flow,
Waylon (00:13:46):
all of everything that's happening is beautiful.
Waylon (00:13:51):
And I think that's got the power of those rooms.
Waylon (00:13:56):
And if we think of it this way,
Waylon (00:13:59):
Sure, we didn't open up this with a prayer.
Waylon (00:14:01):
And that's okay.
Waylon (00:14:04):
We're trying to create a little bit of a message, right?
Waylon (00:14:07):
We're trying to carry a message in our own personal ways.
Waylon (00:14:11):
And when I saw that y'all wanted to visit with me about my personal journey and how
Waylon (00:14:16):
I sobered up,
Waylon (00:14:17):
right?
Waylon (00:14:18):
That, to me, felt really good because I need to share my story, right?
Waylon (00:14:24):
There's some real...
Waylon (00:14:26):
gifts that we can share with one another and the rest of the world and so i think
Waylon (00:14:30):
that's the high point of conversation i want to hear about how many times you've
Rachel (00:14:37):
done treatment not treatment but what was your first time and with bill man he uses
Rachel (00:14:42):
i had to look up so many words i had a hard time reading it to be honest it gets
Waylon (00:14:46):
kind of old scripture like wise like when it's god inspired the impetus behind it
Waylon (00:14:51):
and they try to be
Waylon (00:14:55):
a little god of our understanding and so it gives us our own little possession of
Waylon (00:14:59):
how we understand creator and for me it's creator there's no way that I woke myself
Waylon (00:15:08):
up this morning when at the time I woke up this morning with the thought that I
Waylon (00:15:13):
woke up this morning with there's something powerful about something greater than
Waylon (00:15:21):
ourselves and so
Waylon (00:15:24):
That's where it all really started to come to fruition for me because I learned how
Waylon (00:15:30):
to read at two years old,
Waylon (00:15:31):
but it wasn't my first language.
Waylon (00:15:33):
Hidadza was my first language.
Waylon (00:15:34):
And so English got thrown in front of me.
Waylon (00:15:36):
And so I understood English only because the formulation of language in my mind was
Waylon (00:15:44):
actually a non-English language.
Waylon (00:15:46):
So I'm able to understand those structures of English
Waylon (00:15:50):
I had a lot of difficulty doing that because it didn't make sense because my
Waylon (00:15:55):
language is a living language.
Waylon (00:15:56):
It's not dead like English is, right?
Waylon (00:15:59):
And so verb, subject, parvo, it just makes me feel grossed out, right?
Waylon (00:16:05):
Because it's colonization at a very high level, right?
Waylon (00:16:10):
It's a psychological operation to make us feel like we need to be rugged individuals,
Waylon (00:16:17):
like you'd said,
Waylon (00:16:19):
And so when I try to talk about high bottom drunks, you know, and how even with our
Waylon (00:16:30):
Inferiority, superiority complexes, we're egotists.
Waylon (00:16:36):
Alcoholics are egotistical people.
Waylon (00:16:38):
We're selfish, self-seeking, self-serving.
Waylon (00:16:41):
We want it all for ourselves, right?
Waylon (00:16:43):
Until we realize, oh shit, we're not the only people in the world like this.
Waylon (00:16:47):
There's a whole group of people that act like us and we're all in the same room now.
Waylon (00:16:55):
So at first I started taking other people's inventory because I'm grandiose.
Waylon (00:17:01):
I'm a fucking alcoholic, you guys.
Waylon (00:17:03):
I am an alcoholic.
Waylon (00:17:04):
I learned to identify myself in the rooms as an alcoholic named Waylon.
Waylon (00:17:11):
I'm an alcoholic named Waylon because that is who I am.
Waylon (00:17:16):
First, I'm an alcoholic.
Waylon (00:17:18):
Then I'm Waylon because the two cannot exist apart from one another.
Waylon (00:17:25):
It's that ego, right?
Waylon (00:17:26):
It's ego-driven, egocentrism, and then flattening of the ego, right?
Waylon (00:17:32):
And then having it based on Christian ideals, the Orthodox group, going into the history of
Rachel (00:17:37):
Yeah, that's Thatcher who carried the message to Bill.
Rachel (00:17:40):
And that's what Bill and Bob didn't like.
Rachel (00:17:42):
They can't do the whole church part of it, but they did see that change in Ebby.
Rachel (00:17:47):
And so that's where you have the birth of AA.
Waylon (00:17:50):
And for a long time, because like yourself, Rachel, you didn't want to be an alcoholic.
Waylon (00:17:57):
You wanted to justify the fuck out of not being an alcoholic because I'm normal.
Waylon (00:18:02):
I can drink.
Waylon (00:18:03):
It's not the drink.
Waylon (00:18:05):
It's got to be something else.
Rachel (00:18:06):
I would brag, like, I'm an alcoholic.
Rachel (00:18:08):
I'll drink you under the table.
Rachel (00:18:09):
But I wasn't saying it in...
Rachel (00:18:11):
The way that the first time I said it with tears down my face.
Waylon (00:18:15):
Oh, that point of pride.
Waylon (00:18:18):
The surrender part.
Rachel (00:18:19):
I felt relieved, though, too, because when I walked in the rooms that first day, there was hope.
Rachel (00:18:24):
And I had one lady tell me the most profound thing.
Rachel (00:18:28):
And she said, no, you don't have to drink again.
Rachel (00:18:30):
Like you have permission to not take another drink.
Rachel (00:18:35):
And at that point, I didn't have a choice.
Rachel (00:18:37):
I had to drink.
Rachel (00:18:38):
And so when I heard that I had that power back and she's like,
Rachel (00:18:40):
you hang on to this little chip,
Rachel (00:18:42):
you keep coming back.
Rachel (00:18:45):
And that's what I did.
Rachel (00:18:50):
But yeah, I used to brag like, yeah, of course I'm alcoholic.
Rachel (00:18:53):
I can drink you under the table.
Rachel (00:18:55):
I come from a long line of alcoholism and...
Waylon (00:18:58):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:18:59):
Well, see, yeah, that's my pedigree.
Waylon (00:19:01):
I was trying to qualify myself in the room.
Waylon (00:19:04):
Qualify, yeah.
Waylon (00:19:05):
Oh, yeah.
Waylon (00:19:06):
Not realizing.
Waylon (00:19:07):
Wait a minute.
Waylon (00:19:10):
I'm in denial about this, right?
Waylon (00:19:11):
And I have a whole group of people that is trying to convince me about something
Waylon (00:19:16):
that I'm in denial about.
Waylon (00:19:18):
But then it has to be that self-realization, right?
Waylon (00:19:20):
And then we crack open, right?
Waylon (00:19:22):
That busting open of realization of, oh, my God.
Waylon (00:19:29):
Oh, my God.
Waylon (00:19:30):
And then looking at ourselves.
Waylon (00:19:32):
And that's just what?
Waylon (00:19:33):
That's like step one.
Waylon (00:19:35):
Because we haven't even got to the look at ourself, the true look at ourself.
Waylon (00:19:41):
Step four.
Waylon (00:19:43):
Step five, telling somebody else.
Waylon (00:19:45):
Yeah, it fucking is.
Waylon (00:19:46):
That's hard.
Waylon (00:19:48):
Nobody wants to do that.
Waylon (00:19:49):
Who wants to do that?
Waylon (00:19:49):
Who wants to take a close self-examination at yourself?
Waylon (00:19:53):
Who wants to inventory themselves?
Waylon (00:19:55):
Nobody.
Waylon (00:19:56):
I don't think anybody does.
Rachel (00:19:58):
No, but it was hard.
Rachel (00:19:59):
And I had to go multiple times of writing my fourth step, keeping it continuous.
Rachel (00:20:04):
But my sponsor told me,
Rachel (00:20:07):
You get to be as honest and as free as you want to be.
Rachel (00:20:10):
So you can be as honest.
Rachel (00:20:12):
You can hold back as much as you want to hold back, but you get to be as free as you want to be.
Rachel (00:20:17):
And I want to be free.
Rachel (00:20:18):
So I want to go as deep as I can.
Rachel (00:20:21):
And now I'm trying to get my A on there.
Rachel (00:20:23):
Exactly.
Rachel (00:20:23):
Yes.
Rachel (00:20:23):
But I wanted to be free.
(00:20:25):
And she's like,
Rachel (00:20:29):
You're as sick as your secrets.
Rachel (00:20:31):
And I remember even one hour after when I'm,
Rachel (00:20:34):
you know,
Rachel (00:20:34):
told to go reflect and think,
Rachel (00:20:36):
Oh my God,
Rachel (00:20:36):
I forgot.
Rachel (00:20:37):
And she's like,
Rachel (00:20:38):
Hey,
Rachel (00:20:38):
listen,
Rachel (00:20:39):
it's,
Rachel (00:20:40):
if things pop up,
Rachel (00:20:41):
she's like,
Rachel (00:20:41):
as long as you didn't hold something with back on purpose,
Rachel (00:20:43):
like you're,
Rachel (00:20:44):
we're like,
Rachel (00:20:44):
I'm not going to share this one thing from my fourth step.
Rachel (00:20:48):
Like things are going to pop back up.
Rachel (00:20:49):
You know, it's,
Rachel (00:20:51):
being intentional when you're trying to do your inventory.
Rachel (00:20:56):
Because what we learn, you don't graduate.
Rachel (00:20:58):
It's a continuous inventory.
Waylon (00:20:59):
Yeah, 10, 11, 10, 11, 12.
Rachel (00:21:01):
There's every single day.
Waylon (00:21:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Waylon (00:21:04):
We got to keep keeping ourselves in check like that is something that...
Waylon (00:21:09):
that I had a really difficult time doing because going back to the evaluation report,
Waylon (00:21:14):
the evaluation report says that Waylon has problems with executive functions.
Waylon (00:21:19):
So I can't carry out processes and tasks because there's a block.
Waylon (00:21:25):
That block happens to me.
Waylon (00:21:27):
And then once that block starts happening, then I start getting hyper.
Waylon (00:21:33):
I start getting, oh, the disease, the uneasiness takes over.
Waylon (00:21:41):
And then it makes me impulsive.
Waylon (00:21:43):
And then once my impulsive behavior gets triggered, fuck, it's too fucking late by then.
Waylon (00:21:48):
And so relapse, relapse was something that I was...
Waylon (00:21:57):
obsessed with,
Waylon (00:21:58):
I think,
Waylon (00:21:58):
at some point,
Waylon (00:21:59):
because the starts and stops,
Waylon (00:22:01):
the frequent starts and stops,
Waylon (00:22:03):
the,
Waylon (00:22:04):
oh,
Waylon (00:22:04):
I'm sober,
Waylon (00:22:05):
I got this now.
Waylon (00:22:08):
And then I can drink again real quick.
Waylon (00:22:11):
And then I'm going to sneak it.
Waylon (00:22:11):
I'm going to sneak it because I told everybody I'd quit drinking.
Waylon (00:22:15):
So I'm going to have to sneak this one.
Waylon (00:22:17):
I'm going to have to go somewhere.
Waylon (00:22:18):
I have to take off somewhere and go hide.
Waylon (00:22:21):
Month later, where's Waylon at, right?
Waylon (00:22:25):
Waking up, hearing, waking up to knocks on the hotel room door.
Waylon (00:22:30):
Waking up to just shit ton of cans in front of me because I drink a lot of beer
Waylon (00:22:36):
because I couldn't drink whiskey.
Waylon (00:22:40):
But I could eventually, right?
Waylon (00:22:41):
Eventually we graduate, right?
Waylon (00:22:43):
Graduate up.
Waylon (00:22:44):
I'm kind of giving you like the Rapid City, like Indian drunk, right?
Waylon (00:22:50):
Because I was hanging around a bunch of Native Americans, Lakota people, my heritage, right?
Waylon (00:22:56):
My heritage.
Waylon (00:22:58):
It's a heritage.
Waylon (00:22:59):
And we are Americans.
Waylon (00:23:01):
We're indigenous to the Americas.
Waylon (00:23:03):
Just want to say that much because you guys are based in Texas.
Waylon (00:23:07):
And philosophy.
Waylon (00:23:08):
right?
Waylon (00:23:09):
We go back to the Oxford group a little bit, and here's my ADHD jumping in.
Waylon (00:23:14):
Going back to the Oxford group and the Christian ideals, right?
Waylon (00:23:19):
And then Ebi, and I can't remember if it was Bill or Bob,
Waylon (00:23:24):
who were, I don't know about that God stuff.
Rachel (00:23:28):
Bob got sent by his wife to Oxford,
Rachel (00:23:31):
and Bill went because of Ebby,
Rachel (00:23:32):
and they both kind of split off and had coffee,
Rachel (00:23:35):
and they were like,
Rachel (00:23:36):
I don't know about all this.
Rachel (00:23:37):
That's what I mean.
Waylon (00:23:39):
That's what I meant.
Waylon (00:23:40):
Yeah, that's what I meant.
Rachel (00:23:40):
It's actually, yeah, both Bill and Bob.
Waylon (00:23:42):
And then Ebby was the third.
Waylon (00:23:45):
Yeah, because Ebby comes back, and then they have it.
Rachel (00:23:48):
But Ebby couldn't stay sober.
Rachel (00:23:49):
He relapsed.
Rachel (00:23:49):
You talk about resentments.
Rachel (00:23:52):
ebby had a resentment that he was not part of the creation of the big book because
Rachel (00:23:57):
he carried the message to bill but he was never considered creator that's
Rachel (00:24:01):
speculation i'm not saying i know that for sure but if you look at well maybe he
Waylon (00:24:06):
was indian you know indians and how do indians react to this perspective okay not
Waylon (00:24:13):
in iwo jima when they raised the flag at iwo jima
Waylon (00:24:18):
Are you guys familiar with the first individual,
Waylon (00:24:21):
a soldier,
Waylon (00:24:21):
a United States Marine by the name of Ira Hayes?
Waylon (00:24:24):
I was like, I'm terrible with history.
Waylon (00:24:27):
And that's the problem with America is that they're afraid of their history.
Rachel (00:24:30):
I'm not afraid.
Rachel (00:24:31):
I'm just bad at it.
Waylon (00:24:32):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:24:33):
And that's okay.
Waylon (00:24:33):
That's okay.
Waylon (00:24:34):
It's called guilt.
Waylon (00:24:35):
It's called internalized oppression.
Waylon (00:24:36):
All right.
Waylon (00:24:37):
Let's swallow that right now because we're trying to stay sober through all of this.
Waylon (00:24:41):
And we're trying to stay alive.
Waylon (00:24:43):
Honestly.
Waylon (00:24:44):
Huh?
Waylon (00:24:45):
Genocide.
Waylon (00:24:46):
A culture.
Waylon (00:24:47):
Killed.
Waylon (00:24:48):
America, the beautiful.
Waylon (00:24:50):
We're all Americans now.
Waylon (00:24:52):
We don't want to think about our history because it's hurtful.
Waylon (00:24:56):
It's harmful.
Waylon (00:24:57):
Oh, big fucking deal.
Waylon (00:24:58):
Guess what?
Waylon (00:24:58):
We've had to be here.
Waylon (00:25:00):
My grandmother, her name is Annie Wittborn.
Waylon (00:25:03):
Smith.
Waylon (00:25:05):
Smith.
Waylon (00:25:06):
But her real name is Hawkwoman.
Waylon (00:25:08):
Her dad's name was Chester.
Waylon (00:25:09):
I don't know what Chester's...
Waylon (00:25:11):
Indian name was but his dad's Indian name was long tail means mountain lion so
Waylon (00:25:18):
these are our beliefs that we hold self-evident these are truths to me right so I
Waylon (00:25:25):
won't get weird on you guys a little bit because we were talking about beliefs and
Waylon (00:25:28):
then you got shameful with that love shirt on you got shameful of your history and
Waylon (00:25:35):
Because you're an American here.
Waylon (00:25:36):
You're a Jewish American now.
Waylon (00:25:38):
And I hope you're not a Zionist because Zionism is kind of a sick thought, right?
Waylon (00:25:43):
And it kind of ties into that whole issue where there was a Holocaust.
Waylon (00:25:48):
I'm not a Holocaust denier, but I am a genocide survivor.
Waylon (00:25:54):
So that's our tie right there.
Waylon (00:25:57):
Judeo-Christianism.
Waylon (00:25:58):
Judeo-Christianity today now.
Waylon (00:26:01):
Christian nationalism, right?
Waylon (00:26:03):
Greg Abbott.
Waylon (00:26:07):
Tries to be a disability guy now too, right?
Waylon (00:26:09):
I don't know.
Waylon (00:26:09):
There's something where he was standing and then now he's in a wheelchair.
Waylon (00:26:13):
And so I'm like, I have a disability now.
Waylon (00:26:16):
I just discovered a disability in myself, right?
Waylon (00:26:21):
I don't know about you, but when I drank, I'd blink out.
Waylon (00:26:23):
Okay.
Waylon (00:26:25):
And I'd do some shit that I did not remember.
Waylon (00:26:27):
And then I'd wake up the next day and people would be telling me,
Waylon (00:26:31):
holy fuck,
Waylon (00:26:32):
bro,
Waylon (00:26:32):
did you know what you did?
Waylon (00:26:33):
You jumped out of a window.
Waylon (00:26:35):
Holy fuck, bro, did you know what you did?
Waylon (00:26:36):
You climbed on top of the roof of the car and you scared the fuck out of us.
Waylon (00:26:41):
Holy shit, bro.
Waylon (00:26:42):
Story after story after story of that.
Waylon (00:26:44):
And that's not normal behavior, right?
Waylon (00:26:50):
And it's risky.
Waylon (00:26:53):
And some people might even call it borderline.
Waylon (00:26:55):
You were talking about your psychological stuff.
Waylon (00:26:59):
When I was 18, I'm an Indian kid in North Dakota.
Waylon (00:27:04):
And North Dakota can be summed up as the Mississippi of the North.
Waylon (00:27:12):
And as brown people there, they couldn't lynch us, but they could throw us in jails.
Waylon (00:27:18):
Okay, so that system of oppression, loud and clear, loud and clear.
Waylon (00:27:25):
And I'm indigenous.
Waylon (00:27:25):
This is my land y'all are on, North Dakotans.
Waylon (00:27:29):
We predate that North Dakota 1889 century code bullshit.
Waylon (00:27:36):
1851, Treaty of 1851 was how our lands were established.
Waylon (00:27:40):
Fort Berthold Indian Reservation is where I grew up.
Waylon (00:27:43):
Mandarin, North Dakota, to be very specific.
Waylon (00:27:46):
My auntie and uncle moved to Fort Worth, Texas because of a policy called relocation.
Waylon (00:27:53):
United States policy.
Waylon (00:27:55):
That was the policy of the federal government to send Indians to different cities
Waylon (00:27:59):
so they could assimilate.
Waylon (00:28:00):
The survivors of a genocide had government funding to continue their life,
Waylon (00:28:07):
but they had to be Americans in order to continue it.
Waylon (00:28:11):
which is fine.
Waylon (00:28:12):
We're moving towards that direction again now where we all have to erase our
Waylon (00:28:15):
identities and we have to just become Americans,
Waylon (00:28:19):
which is fine.
Waylon (00:28:20):
I can play that mask.
Waylon (00:28:21):
I can play that role.
Waylon (00:28:22):
I identify with all kinds of Americans in this country,
Waylon (00:28:26):
Jews,
Waylon (00:28:28):
non-Jews,
Waylon (00:28:30):
indigenous,
Waylon (00:28:31):
non-indigenous,
Waylon (00:28:33):
right?
Waylon (00:28:35):
And I try not to offend, but I'm Gen X.
Waylon (00:28:42):
And we have a different role in society today, us Gen Xers.
Waylon (00:28:51):
We have to bridge generations.
Waylon (00:28:53):
Okay, because those boomers don't know shit.
Waylon (00:28:59):
And all those young kids, millennials, I think they call them, they know everything.
Waylon (00:29:05):
Holy smokes, they know everything.
Waylon (00:29:07):
They know so much.
Waylon (00:29:09):
That they're going to save the world.
Waylon (00:29:10):
And they're going to tell us guys to shut up.
Waylon (00:29:13):
So I want to get out of the way.
Waylon (00:29:14):
Let those kids take over.
Waylon (00:29:16):
Because that's what a bridge does.
Waylon (00:29:18):
I just serve as a conduit.
Waylon (00:29:20):
Between generations.
Waylon (00:29:22):
Because I can remember.
Waylon (00:29:25):
Looking at a calendar.
Waylon (00:29:26):
And it said 1982 on it.
Waylon (00:29:27):
That's how good my memory used to be.
Waylon (00:29:32):
But then alcohol.
Waylon (00:29:34):
Got introduced to my system.
Waylon (00:29:35):
When I was about 10 or 11.
Waylon (00:29:36):
Maybe 11 or 12 actually.
Waylon (00:29:39):
maybe earlier than that even, right?
Waylon (00:29:41):
Because I was bouncing off the walls and they did not know what to do with Wayland at that time.
Waylon (00:29:46):
And I was a little kid, toddler in diapers sometimes.
Waylon (00:29:50):
Some of my uncles would put...
Waylon (00:29:52):
alcohol in a cap and give it to me and see what would happen to me.
Rachel (00:29:56):
So our quick kind of backstory is that when I say we went to that same meeting that night,
Rachel (00:30:02):
we haven't had a drink since that same night.
Rachel (00:30:04):
He wasn't so AA.
Rachel (00:30:06):
He wanted to be like, well, I don't quite know.
Colin (00:30:09):
That's a dyslexic for you.
Colin (00:30:11):
Like there's a lot of reading already.
Colin (00:30:15):
We can't make it single digits.
Colin (00:30:18):
We got to go double digits.
Rachel (00:30:20):
And thankfully I had a great sponsor that said your, his step work is none of your business.
Rachel (00:30:27):
You have your sobriety is your business, but he's my husband.
Rachel (00:30:30):
We live because it does not matter what saved our marriages.
Rachel (00:30:34):
Like when we talk about the steps and we,
Rachel (00:30:37):
now I can learn through this,
Rachel (00:30:39):
you know,
Rachel (00:30:40):
Hey,
Rachel (00:30:41):
this is what makes me mad.
Rachel (00:30:43):
This is how I react.
Rachel (00:30:45):
I'm in charge of my reactions.
Rachel (00:30:46):
OK, like I don't get to say when you do the dishes that way, you make me angry.
Rachel (00:30:51):
No, you do the dishes how you do the dishes.
Rachel (00:30:53):
I get angry because of something that's in my problem.
Rachel (00:30:56):
And when we were able to break that down,
Rachel (00:30:59):
when things happening around the house or in our lives,
Rachel (00:31:01):
like,
Rachel (00:31:01):
hey,
Rachel (00:31:02):
we can stop.
Rachel (00:31:03):
Can we do a quick inventory check?
Rachel (00:31:06):
Here's the problem.
Rachel (00:31:08):
It's not your fault.
Rachel (00:31:09):
I'm telling you my inventory how I feel.
Rachel (00:31:13):
What can we do to try and get rid of that resentment?
Rachel (00:31:18):
And how did this book that Bill and Bob created has saved my marriage?
Waylon (00:31:24):
Oh my God.
Waylon (00:31:25):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:31:25):
No, I, yes.
Waylon (00:31:27):
I,
Waylon (00:31:27):
there's so many things that I,
Waylon (00:31:28):
that,
Waylon (00:31:29):
that were hitting with me as you were speaking,
Waylon (00:31:31):
because like real,
Waylon (00:31:32):
like my first real sponsor,
Waylon (00:31:35):
my first real sponsor.
Waylon (00:31:36):
And I say my first real sponsor,
Waylon (00:31:38):
because he's actually the one who really had enough patience to,
Waylon (00:31:43):
to actually wait, pause, and then tell me how to go through it.
Waylon (00:31:50):
And he had no knowledge of ADHD.
Waylon (00:31:53):
I had no knowledge that I had ADHD at the time,
Waylon (00:31:55):
but he had enough patience and love and tolerance.
Waylon (00:31:59):
Oh my God.
Waylon (00:32:01):
But it was so funny because at times when his patience and tolerance got tested,
Waylon (00:32:06):
he sent me to priests.
Waylon (00:32:07):
He sent me to a Catholic priest.
Waylon (00:32:09):
He sent me to Orthodox, a Russian Orthodox priest.
Waylon (00:32:12):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:32:12):
And the Russian Orthodox priest was the one who actually reached me at some point
Waylon (00:32:18):
because he had to,
Waylon (00:32:19):
I was stuck in my identity and I was stuck in,
Waylon (00:32:24):
it's you guys' fault that I'm fucking even alcoholic because you guys fed us to alcohol.
Waylon (00:32:31):
You guys had this whole fucking bullshit thing where wine is sacred now?
Waylon (00:32:40):
It's a belief system.
Waylon (00:32:40):
We didn't have sacred, any wine or anything fermented that was sacred to us.
Waylon (00:32:46):
We have herbs.
Waylon (00:32:48):
We have a plant that fucks some people up.
Waylon (00:32:52):
We won't get into that.
Waylon (00:32:54):
But ergo fungus,
Waylon (00:32:56):
right,
Waylon (00:32:57):
is something that is a part of the burning bush incident that everybody leaves out
Waylon (00:33:05):
because Bill is hanging out with like Ken Kesey people,
Waylon (00:33:09):
dude.
Waylon (00:33:09):
You know, and Ken Kesey was a merry fucking prankster and used LSD to free his mind.
Waylon (00:33:15):
Nobody wants to hear about that, though.
Waylon (00:33:17):
We always have to talk about Abby.
Waylon (00:33:18):
We always have to talk about orthodox and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and all that bullshit.
Rachel (00:33:23):
I try to give Bill grace on some of the after parts.
Rachel (00:33:27):
I don't.
Rachel (00:33:27):
I try.
Waylon (00:33:28):
Because it was ego.
Waylon (00:33:29):
It was ego.
Waylon (00:33:30):
It was ego.
Waylon (00:33:31):
I mean, yeah, he asked for a drink on his deathbed.
Rachel (00:33:33):
I know.
Rachel (00:33:33):
It's 80 years ago.
Waylon (00:33:34):
Here we are now, still talking about these fuckers.
Waylon (00:33:37):
Why?
Waylon (00:33:38):
Why?
Waylon (00:33:40):
Because we're just trying to stay sober, right?
Waylon (00:33:42):
We're trying to stay sober.
Waylon (00:33:43):
They were God-given or something like that, right?
Waylon (00:33:47):
Just like the framers of our constitution.
Waylon (00:33:49):
So anyways, decolonization was something where I got stuck, right?
Waylon (00:33:52):
And it took a Russian Orthodox priest and his caller to say, Waylon, I'm an alcoholic too.
Waylon (00:34:03):
Literally, that's how he said it.
Waylon (00:34:05):
I'm an alcoholic too.
Waylon (00:34:06):
And he pointed to his caller.
Waylon (00:34:09):
Waylon, I'm an alcoholic.
Waylon (00:34:12):
Father, I'm an Indian.
Waylon (00:34:16):
Black robes, missionaries, colonization, Catholicism, belief systems, imposition, right?
Waylon (00:34:26):
But I'm just an alcoholic named Waylon.
Waylon (00:34:29):
I got to let go of all of that that weighs me down to stay sober.
Waylon (00:34:34):
Otherwise, all that that weighs me down turns into another drink.
Waylon (00:34:41):
And I never knew how to turn this into a lead, right?
Waylon (00:34:48):
Because I never understood opening up, beginning, middle, end.
Waylon (00:34:57):
Because I always opened up.
Waylon (00:34:59):
I started and I stopped.
Waylon (00:35:02):
I started and I stopped.
Waylon (00:35:03):
I never had an in-between middle ground where I could breathe.
Waylon (00:35:09):
Where I could feel that love.
Waylon (00:35:15):
Where I could stretch like I'm in a yoga class, right?
Waylon (00:35:24):
And feel the beauty of all the beauty around us that's everywhere around us.
Waylon (00:35:30):
And I feel warmth in one hand and I feel cool in the other.
Waylon (00:35:34):
Right now, as I'm speaking to you both.
Waylon (00:35:37):
And so that wisdom,
Waylon (00:35:39):
that knowledge,
Waylon (00:35:40):
that love,
Waylon (00:35:40):
that energy,
Waylon (00:35:41):
that God moment,
Waylon (00:35:43):
it's about all I have to say about that right there.
Waylon (00:35:46):
And that beauty and that wisdom is way inside of me.
Waylon (00:35:51):
And that's creator as I understand that.
Waylon (00:35:54):
I don't need a book to tell me I'm better than other people.
Waylon (00:36:02):
So it's kind of neat.
Waylon (00:36:04):
It's kind of beautiful.
Waylon (00:36:07):
But it's my experience, my strength, my hope.
Waylon (00:36:11):
I got to experience treatment as a senior in high school.
Waylon (00:36:17):
I was 16 years old when I went to treatment my first time.
Waylon (00:36:22):
It was September 1994.
Waylon (00:36:25):
And I went in and I told my high school principal that I didn't feel like I wanted
Waylon (00:36:33):
to be here anymore.
Waylon (00:36:38):
And she said, we have somewhere we can take you.
Waylon (00:36:43):
They're going to help you.
Waylon (00:36:45):
Do you want to go?
Waylon (00:36:47):
Yeah, let's go.
Waylon (00:36:49):
I need the help.
Waylon (00:36:51):
I ended up in a psych ward for 72 hours.
Waylon (00:36:57):
And the psych ward said, you're not suicidal.
Waylon (00:37:03):
We're pretty sure you're an alcoholic.
Waylon (00:37:06):
So we're going to put you in treatment for 28 days.
Waylon (00:37:10):
And this was September 1994.
Waylon (00:37:12):
I think I got out around October, November 1994.
Waylon (00:37:22):
And over half of our high school class, this was the first time I got sober, right?
Waylon (00:37:28):
The half of our high school class ended up going to, all of us ended up going to treatment.
Waylon (00:37:33):
This was on a reservation.
Waylon (00:37:35):
It was a mixed community.
Waylon (00:37:37):
So it was half white, half Indian.
Waylon (00:37:39):
And some of us were half white, half Indian.
Waylon (00:37:44):
So it's a mixed community, right?
Waylon (00:37:47):
So there was love there in that community.
Waylon (00:37:48):
A lot of love, secret love sometimes too.
Waylon (00:37:57):
It's a small community, right?
Waylon (00:37:58):
It's a rural area.
Waylon (00:37:59):
So I have,
Waylon (00:38:03):
I won't get into that.
Colin (00:38:04):
Yeah.
Colin (00:38:04):
In a small community like that and kind of hear about smaller towns,
Colin (00:38:08):
people just drink earlier because there's nothing really else to do.
Colin (00:38:14):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:38:14):
And that's bullshit.
Waylon (00:38:15):
That's lack of imagination.
Waylon (00:38:16):
That's lack of imagination.
Waylon (00:38:18):
That's lack of creativity.
Waylon (00:38:20):
Right.
Waylon (00:38:20):
And I wasn't gifted and talented for fuck's sake.
Waylon (00:38:23):
So I'm embarrassed by that.
Waylon (00:38:25):
But I'm also like, those are the tools.
Waylon (00:38:27):
Those are the only tools we had.
Waylon (00:38:29):
Scott, when you were dyslexic in school, did you have to go to class?
Waylon (00:38:33):
Did you tell anybody that you had a little bit of an issue?
Waylon (00:38:36):
Thank you.
Rachel (00:38:38):
They saw the letters backwards, the numbers backwards.
Rachel (00:38:40):
It was very early.
Rachel (00:38:42):
Yes.
Rachel (00:38:42):
And now he works for that hospital that helped him.
Rachel (00:38:46):
And so it's kind of serendipitous.
Colin (00:38:48):
Full circle.
Colin (00:38:48):
Yeah.
Colin (00:38:49):
So I work for a hospital that does.
Colin (00:38:52):
It's for children.
Colin (00:38:52):
Yeah.
Colin (00:38:53):
A children's hospital in Dallas that does a lot of great work.
Colin (00:38:56):
And it's all run on donations and charities.
Colin (00:38:59):
So the people that go there don't have to pay for anything if they can't afford it.
Rachel (00:39:03):
And it's more like prosthetics or dyslexia or like... Yeah, scoliosis, club feet.
Colin (00:39:10):
They coined the term dyslexia and helped pioneer the tutoring for it.
Colin (00:39:16):
The Shriners.
Waylon (00:39:17):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:39:18):
Chem Temple is the temple that put on our Shrine Circus in North Dakota.
Waylon (00:39:24):
Oh.
Waylon (00:39:24):
Okay.
Waylon (00:39:25):
So that's the connection we have to the Shriners there.
Waylon (00:39:27):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:39:29):
Which is different, which is a little bit of a disconnect, but I'm also like...
Waylon (00:39:33):
but they make money.
Waylon (00:39:34):
I mean, they raise funds that way.
Colin (00:39:36):
Yeah.
Colin (00:39:37):
Interesting crowd of gentlemen, but they raise a lot of money.
Colin (00:39:41):
And it was always those dudes in the derbies and the little tassels.
(00:39:44):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:39:45):
I'm like, what the fuck is that?
Waylon (00:39:48):
What is that?
Waylon (00:39:49):
You know, I was a kid curious saying, what is that?
Waylon (00:39:52):
And then I'm an adult taking my kids to this circus.
Waylon (00:39:57):
And then I started having that PETA moment where I'm like, Oh, this is animal abuse.
Waylon (00:40:01):
Actually.
Waylon (00:40:03):
How can they justify this?
Waylon (00:40:05):
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Waylon (00:40:06):
Abuse is a way of life for them.
Waylon (00:40:08):
So that's how they justify it.
Waylon (00:40:11):
And so that's why I'm like, oh, shit.
Waylon (00:40:13):
Yeah, this is a really big disconnect.
Waylon (00:40:15):
Because we lived with the earth.
Waylon (00:40:17):
We didn't want to control it.
Waylon (00:40:19):
We don't want to be in charge of it.
Waylon (00:40:21):
We lived with it in harmony.
Waylon (00:40:23):
And we appreciated it.
Waylon (00:40:24):
And we knew that we had enough land that there was going to be an abundance for everybody.
Waylon (00:40:32):
I believe it was the Onondagas.
Waylon (00:40:34):
And I might butcher that.
Waylon (00:40:35):
We have to go back to,
Waylon (00:40:37):
I think it's the Five Nation Confederacy,
Waylon (00:40:40):
Six Nation Confederacy,
Waylon (00:40:41):
one of those confederacies,
Waylon (00:40:43):
of which are the framers of the Constitution used to make the Constitution.
Waylon (00:40:50):
But the philosophy was one dish, one spoon.
Waylon (00:40:53):
There's enough for everybody.
Waylon (00:40:57):
There's enough for everybody.
Waylon (00:41:01):
One dish, one spoon.
Waylon (00:41:04):
Not the cow jumped over the moon.
Waylon (00:41:07):
A real fucking story.
Waylon (00:41:08):
A real oral history.
Waylon (00:41:11):
Okay?
Waylon (00:41:13):
Not written down like the Talmud or the Torah or the Quran or the Bible.
Waylon (00:41:20):
Oral history.
Waylon (00:41:23):
And there were whole people who were entire records.
Waylon (00:41:32):
not just books, people with wisdom and knowledge and experience.
Waylon (00:41:40):
And if we can kind of keep that, keep just the remnants of that, right?
Waylon (00:41:45):
Just those little tiny specks of that beautiful history.
Waylon (00:41:49):
And we can reach each other with this story, right?
Waylon (00:41:52):
We can reach one another with these stories, our experience, our strength, our hope, right?
Waylon (00:41:57):
by golly, we just might be onto something, right?
Waylon (00:42:00):
Because we were able to sit, and I was able to focus, and I thank you folks for that, right?
Waylon (00:42:06):
For this past hour,
Waylon (00:42:07):
I've been able to sit and focus on a topic,
Waylon (00:42:09):
a single topic of sobriety,
Waylon (00:42:12):
but I went all over to a bunch of different areas,
Waylon (00:42:17):
right?
Waylon (00:42:17):
I went all, jumped all over the place.
Waylon (00:42:21):
Because yeah, it's inclusive, right?
Waylon (00:42:24):
Sobriety is inclusive.
Waylon (00:42:30):
Just like the rest of us have to be inclusive, right?
Waylon (00:42:36):
But that inclusion can be changed a little bit.
Waylon (00:42:40):
We can change those words, right?
Waylon (00:42:45):
We're word mongers.
Waylon (00:42:47):
We have thesauruses.
Waylon (00:42:49):
We can change the verbiage a little bit to match the policies that are in place in
Waylon (00:42:55):
motion right now.
Waylon (00:42:55):
We can reclaim our identities too in that framework.
Waylon (00:42:59):
So Hidatsa Heritage is something I've really been pushing for and championing.
Waylon (00:43:06):
There was a couple questions you had on your intake form that made me wonder about
Waylon (00:43:11):
what do I want to plug shamelessly?
Waylon (00:43:15):
And it's Hidatsa Heritage.
Waylon (00:43:17):
Because the Heritage Foundation wants to solidify American heritage.
Waylon (00:43:23):
And I'm going to weave in the fabric of my culture, my heritage,
Waylon (00:43:31):
with two people in Texas this morning in a good way.
Waylon (00:43:37):
His creator gave that thought to me.
Waylon (00:43:39):
Thank you.
Rachel (00:43:39):
Like, and we're going to put that link in the show notes.
Waylon (00:43:41):
Well, here's, here's the deal.
Waylon (00:43:43):
Heritage Foundation is kind of dark.
Waylon (00:43:45):
Their philosophy is anti everybody except for conservatives.
Waylon (00:43:52):
That's the difference between those 12 worlds concepts,
Waylon (00:43:54):
AA,
Waylon (00:43:56):
the foundations of AA tradition seven.
Waylon (00:44:01):
I would like to donate to that because that's the only way I see worlds working anymore,
Waylon (00:44:08):
is on donations.
Waylon (00:44:11):
Because we can't make money.
Waylon (00:44:12):
We can't make money.
Waylon (00:44:14):
Oh, but then the fat cat corporations can, right?
Waylon (00:44:17):
Which is fine.
Waylon (00:44:19):
I understand LLCs.
Waylon (00:44:21):
We won't get into that.
Waylon (00:44:22):
But I'm just trying to figure out here, seriously, how to help motherfuckers.
Waylon (00:44:26):
anymore like us marginalized peoples right i don't have as much as i should because
Waylon (00:44:35):
i was blocked from 88 blocked by adhd for the last 20 years okay i kind of started
Waylon (00:44:43):
this conversation with i was a journalist before my adhd my alcohol hasn't kicked
Waylon (00:44:49):
in and that held me down for 20 years
Waylon (00:44:53):
So now here I am kind of fumbling because I've been struggling with a disability
Waylon (00:44:59):
for 20 years that has not allowed me to stay employed.
Waylon (00:45:04):
So how does a donation-based service or donation-based whatever the hell it is,
Waylon (00:45:16):
how does that function?
Waylon (00:45:17):
And I'll take LA Russell as an example, right?
Waylon (00:45:20):
Because LA Russell does music.
Waylon (00:45:22):
I'll drop LA Russell because,
Waylon (00:45:24):
and I don't know if it's La Russell,
Waylon (00:45:26):
but I mean,
Waylon (00:45:26):
I think they're doing great work.
Waylon (00:45:27):
They're doing backyard stuff and it's really helpful,
Waylon (00:45:31):
but he has this page and a following on Instagram,
Waylon (00:45:35):
but he also has a bunch of donation links to his cash app.
Waylon (00:45:38):
And I'm like, how does that work for them?
Waylon (00:45:40):
How did they funnel that into
Waylon (00:45:43):
Like, I got to pay the rent this month, right?
Waylon (00:45:47):
And so I'm just trying to figure out what your mutual aid links would be so then I
Waylon (00:45:51):
could help you,
Waylon (00:45:52):
right?
Waylon (00:45:52):
And then in the process,
Waylon (00:45:53):
maybe down the road,
Waylon (00:45:56):
let's say I'm working for a nonprofit called Harvest of All First Nations.
Waylon (00:46:00):
Maybe we can say donate to Harvest of All First Nations.
Rachel (00:46:03):
Yeah, we're still figuring that out on our end.
Rachel (00:46:07):
And I have to keep refocusing that we've grown bigger of talking to all these great people.
Rachel (00:46:13):
And I'm like, oh my God, let's talk on the podcast.
Rachel (00:46:15):
But it started off just him and I very casual.
Rachel (00:46:18):
And right now,
Rachel (00:46:20):
my only goal is to get a job to where I can do this without asking people for a
Rachel (00:46:25):
Venmo or Cash App or whatever,
Rachel (00:46:27):
or a subscription.
Rachel (00:46:28):
God, that kills me.
Waylon (00:46:30):
And don't get me wrong.
Waylon (00:46:31):
Listen, I'm a journalist, right?
Waylon (00:46:33):
I stopped doing journalism because they couldn't fucking pay me what I needed to live.
Waylon (00:46:39):
Does that make sense?
Waylon (00:46:41):
Yeah, I know.
Waylon (00:46:41):
I was in South Dakota getting paid 13 a fucking hour for my brain work.
Waylon (00:46:47):
And that was it.
Waylon (00:46:47):
That was the best I could do.
Waylon (00:46:51):
So when I started seeing jobs for menial tasks getting way more than that,
Waylon (00:46:58):
I'm like, my fucking mind isn't even valued here.
Waylon (00:47:01):
Nobody's mind is valued unless you have a million dollars in the bank to begin with.
Rachel (00:47:07):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:47:07):
And so you're already starting off short.
Waylon (00:47:10):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:47:10):
So that's a poverty mindset right there.
Waylon (00:47:13):
And so I can help you shift out of that.
Waylon (00:47:17):
Literally.
Waylon (00:47:18):
But it takes a lot.
Waylon (00:47:21):
It takes a commitment of going to North Dakota in the summertime.
Waylon (00:47:25):
Yeah.
Waylon (00:47:28):
I'm talking about spirituality.
Waylon (00:47:30):
No, yeah.
Waylon (00:47:31):
Yeah, Sundance.
Waylon (00:47:33):
I do have nonprofits that I work with.
Waylon (00:47:36):
Medicine Butte is one of them.
Waylon (00:47:38):
Medicine Butte nonprofit up in North Dakota.
Waylon (00:47:41):
They're based in Newtown, PO Box 90.
Waylon (00:47:43):
They're trying to do some stuff.
Waylon (00:47:45):
I did mention Harvest of All First Nations.
Waylon (00:47:47):
I am working with them, trying to grow food here in Boulder County, Colorado.
Waylon (00:47:54):
Okay, so I'm a media guy, right?
Waylon (00:47:56):
I am a creative.
Waylon (00:47:58):
And that's what I gave to you guys today.
Waylon (00:47:59):
I gave you my creativity for an hour.
Waylon (00:48:05):
I'm not going to ask for anything from that,
Waylon (00:48:07):
but I am going to ask that if we can build together,
Waylon (00:48:11):
right,
Waylon (00:48:12):
from this point on.
Rachel (00:48:13):
And I know we've taken a lot of your time, and I appreciate it.
Waylon (00:48:17):
It was great having you.
Waylon (00:48:19):
One last thing.
Waylon (00:48:20):
What are your sobriety dates?
Rachel (00:48:22):
Same one, 11, 22, 21.
Rachel (00:48:22):
Mm-hmm.
Rachel (00:48:25):
Nice.
Colin (00:48:26):
So a little over three years in a few months.
Rachel (00:48:29):
And I have six hours on them.
Colin (00:48:31):
Yeah.
Colin (00:48:31):
I got a year on this last one.
(00:48:33):
10-24-2020.
Colin (00:48:33):
The day I woke up.
Colin (00:48:34):
That's impressive because that's like...
Rachel (00:48:45):
six months into covid and that was probably our heaviest time drinking is because
Rachel (00:48:50):
the world was shut down alcohol could get delivered to your front door and it was a
Rachel (00:48:56):
nightmare again we can say like that high bottom but if you looked in our house and
Rachel (00:49:00):
the way we took care of ourselves and alcohol was our master at that point yeah and
Rachel (00:49:07):
it was scary when we got sober because it's
Rachel (00:49:10):
How did we justify this?
Rachel (00:49:12):
And how did we justify having negative amounts in our bank account and selling off
Rachel (00:49:18):
like coins for our family to go buy a handle of Jameson?
Rachel (00:49:22):
But in the time it made perfect sense.
Waylon (00:49:25):
Yeah, in the moment.
Waylon (00:49:26):
Because you don't want to get the cheap shit, for sure.
Waylon (00:49:28):
Yeah, no.
Rachel (00:49:30):
And again, it's like the baffling.
Rachel (00:49:33):
I don't understand how I rationalized it.
Colin (00:49:38):
We barely use that couch anyways.
Colin (00:49:40):
Yeah, we don't need a couch.
Rachel (00:49:41):
You know what?
Rachel (00:49:42):
We have two couches.
Rachel (00:49:43):
We're going to sit on the floor.
Rachel (00:49:44):
We can do yoga.
Colin (00:49:45):
We can get yoga.
Colin (00:49:46):
Justify the... Yeah, no.
Waylon (00:49:56):
that's hey i mean we could do a whole other we could do a whole other discussion on
Rachel (00:49:59):
that i mean i just the feeling too it's that emptiness and now my heart is not not
Rachel (00:50:07):
empty just definitely a lot more full today we thank you for your time really
Rachel (00:50:12):
appreciate it have a great rest of your weekend