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This is the Podcast home of TC Jewfolk's Who The Folk?! Podcast. Hear from interesting Members of the Tribe from all over the Minneapolis and St. Paul area.
Lonny Goldsmith (00:05)
Welcome to this week's Who the Folk Podcast. I'm Lonnie Goldsmith, the editor of TC Jew Folk. And this week I talk to Vicki Pieser author of the book "Jews in Germantown: The Diaspora in Brown County, Minnesota." We talk about storytelling, growing up and living in a small town, and the challenges that brings to her Judaism on this week's Who the Folk podcast. But before we talk to Vicki, this week's episode is sponsored by Folk Lab.
Lonny Goldsmith (00:35)
Looking for a new way to connect with Jewish life and with other people in your community? FolkLab, a Jewfolk Inc. initiative, brings Judaism, learning, and community together through experiences that are thoughtful, meaningful, and sometimes just plain fun. We've explored everything from Jewish meditation and Hebrew to Shavuot cheesecake testing, mahjong in Meza, and deep dives into Torah wisdom. There's always something new coming up.
Lonny Goldsmith (01:03)
See what's next at tcjewfolk.com slash folklab dash classes.
Lonny Goldsmith (01:10)
Vicki Pieser, welcome to the Who the Folk Podcast. Thank you for joining me.
vicki (01:14)
thank you for the invitation.
Lonny Goldsmith (01:16)
I'm very excited to get to talk to you. You are the author of a new book that was put out late last year from the Jewish Historical Society of the Upper Midwest, titled Jews in Germantown. is really an exploration of the Jewish diaspora in in southern Minnesota. And I'm really curious how was it that you came
Lonny Goldsmith (01:43)
to this topic and what was it that interested you about it?
vicki (01:50)
stories, which fits very well. reading about Jewfolk, you rely on stories to explain
Lonny Goldsmith (01:56)
Yes we do.
vicki (01:58)
and to encourage us. And my father was a storyteller and my family has interesting stories. And living in New Ulm Minnesota for almost sixty years, which has traditionally been named by the National Geographic Association back in the seventies, I think, as the most homogeneous town in America.
vicki (02:19)
White German Christian.
Lonny Goldsmith (02:22)
Wow.
vicki (02:23)
So that really was an incentive and experiencing being the other here and also experiencing being the other in Jewish communities because I've never lived in a Jewish community. I've always lived in small towns. So
Lonny Goldsmith (02:39)
Okay.
vicki (02:40)
sort of felt like neither fish nor fowl. And sometimes I've you know spoken with other people in small towns who have felt the same.
vicki (02:49)
and I love history. I've worked at the historical society in the county here and I've taught sociology and so it sort of meshed. And then I met people who lived here who had amazing stories who were Jewish.
Lonny Goldsmith (03:06)
So how long you've been in New Ulm for how long now?
vicki (03:12)
Fifty nine years.
Lonny Goldsmith (03:13)
Wow, okay.
vicki (03:15)
I married someone. my husband Ben was born here. his parents lived in small towns in the Midwest. And they were the sort of the typical retail story that you come here so you can become your own boss. You go to a small town so you can become your own boss. And not rely on and small towns were used to Jewish merchants. So they f they fit in well and they they had a store here for over 75 years.
vicki (03:45)
so this has been home to them and and we're third generation. I have a daughter who lives here also.
Lonny Goldsmith (03:51)
Okay.
Lonny Goldsmith (03:53)
So what was the appeal to staying in a small town?
vicki (03:58)
The business was well
Lonny Goldsmith (04:00)
Okay.
vicki (04:01)
here for first my husband went we met in college. He always wanted to come back and run the family store. That was always his dream. And he fulfilled it and he he did it very well. He was very well liked. He still is very well liked. when we when I go out, people are telling me how much they miss him because he did close us. So it was a good fit. It was a good fit because I didn't expect
vicki (04:27)
a large Jewish community.
Lonny Goldsmith (04:31)
What kind of community did you find through your research used to be in Brown County? What was what was that community like and where where what was the origin story of that community?
vicki (04:44)
it's a wonderful origin story. It's a yeah, it's very proudly German and there's
Lonny Goldsmith (04:50)
Mm-hmm.
vicki (04:50)
wonderful books about its history and very knowledgeable historians, wonderful museums. And they were you know, there were German aristocrats sort of who came here during the the intellectual revolution in the eighteen fifties in Germany, and there were German Bohemian farmers who came here. And so the descendants of those two groups are still here. And it's Catholic and Lutheran.
Lonny Goldsmith (05:14)
Okay. The I and for people who don't know, Ulm is a town in Germany.
vicki (05:22)
Right.
Lonny Goldsmith (05:23)
So so new Ulm i mean clearly this this area, this town was settled by people who who had immigrated.
vicki (05:31)
Right. And there's an Ulm and a neu Ulm, new Ulm, there. When my father in law opened his store here seventy five years ago, the first person he hired was a driver who spoke German. He had to have a translator in the store seventy five years ago.
Lonny Goldsmith (05:50)
I I love the fact that there was a new Ulm in Germany, but you can't really call the town of Minnesota new new Ulm? No, that wouldn't work.
vicki (05:57)
No. Not
vicki (06:01)
to not to the founders.
Lonny Goldsmith (06:03)
No,
Lonny Goldsmith (06:04)
clearly not. So what size community Jewish community used to be there?
vicki (06:12)
to my thinking, there's never been a Jewish community here. And there have been
Lonny Goldsmith (06:17)
Okay.
vicki (06:17)
some wonderful books. and now I'm not gonna history of a small town by I'm not gonna be able to give the the author, which did very in very specific studies about small Jewish communities from 100 to 1,000. Well, we never
Lonny Goldsmith (06:38)
Mm.
vicki (06:38)
hundred Jews here.
vicki (06:40)
And I would think that if we could have had a minyan, it would be a Jew. We've never had a minyan
vicki (06:45)
well that I looking back, I don't think there's ever been a minyan So that
Lonny Goldsmith (06:49)
Okay.
vicki (06:49)
yeah. so some there were some who, you know, had relationships. I think we might be the only family that has been here for three generations. And that's
Lonny Goldsmith (07:04)
Really?
vicki (07:04)
pretty typical of small towns. The
Lonny Goldsmith (07:06)
I suppose.
vicki (07:07)
Right. The dream was to go back to the big city and and be in a synagogue and so many people left or left because they couldn't they were afraid their children would assimilate and not stay Jewish.
Lonny Goldsmith (07:23)
sure. That's that makes sense.
vicki (07:27)
It reality.
Lonny Goldsmith (07:29)
Yeah, for sure. What was it that kept okay so I mean, yes, there was the store, but you know, you still stayed. Like you could have he could your husband could have sold the business earlier, could have let somebody else run it, and you could have gone to a bigger community. There had s there had to be something that kept you tied.
vicki (07:47)
well, we were in our seventies when he closed the store. So but
Lonny Goldsmith (07:50)
Okay.
vicki (07:51)
but it's a very comforta it's a good town, great medical facilities, very peaceful. we're home here. And I have one daughter living here and one son living here in a group home and
Lonny Goldsmith (08:04)
Okay.
vicki (08:05)
a daughter in Seattle. It's a good pl very good place for people with disabilities.
Lonny Goldsmith (08:10)
Really?
vicki (08:11)
He he has so many friends in the community and there are many
Lonny Goldsmith (08:13)
that's amazing.
vicki (08:14)
here. everybody knows him. It's it's a very yeah, we yeah, he loves it here. So
Lonny Goldsmith (08:22)
I I I think there's a degree to which people you know, again, I'm i in up in the the Twin Cities and grew up in a the suburbs of another large city and then spent time in Chicago and I I've never spent time in small town America. so I think for for those of us who are sort of in that boat, the the close-knit
Lonny Goldsmith (08:49)
feel of community and everybody knowing everybody, you don't really get that in in in most places. Certainly not the places I've been.
vicki (09:02)
But you have tight knit Jewish communities, I would
Lonny Goldsmith (09:06)
Sure.
vicki (09:07)
and that's that's very different. And that's
Lonny Goldsmith (09:10)
Yes.
vicki (09:12)
and living here it's hard to become a part of that. It has been it has not been easy to and part of it is the distance and y you have a store open six days a week, you're not gonna drive up to the cities easily. But that's another
Lonny Goldsmith (09:28)
Right. Right. So the how have how have you sort of reconciled your desire to have a small town feel and live in that environment with not having that kind of Jewish community that maybe you would crave?
vicki (09:47)
I really did crave or do crave a Jewish community. and it's it's hard to to maintain one. which is another and I'm not just complimenting you, but under your vision that you wanna f we're all a world where all Jews find abundant entry points into community. That's
vicki (10:15)
That's a big that's a big goal.
Lonny Goldsmith (10:19)
That is a it's a huge goal. and it is certainly not my vision alone of l lots of co workers, the CEO, a COO, engagement people, marketing people. Like there there is a whole team that helps, I sort of keep hold on the editorial vision and drive that. But the the overall mission, vision and values of Jewfolk there, you it's
Lonny Goldsmith (10:45)
a a growing staff and a very engaged board. It's as as much as I would like to take cr credit for all of it, I could could not do something like that. But it
vicki (10:58)
It's
Lonny Goldsmith (11:00)
and the nice thing about being a digital community is that we can connect with with you and and your family and in New Home and people in small towns all over the place.
vicki (11:13)
That's true. And they I historically they really needed you in the past. I think they really were isolated. But I
Lonny Goldsmith (11:21)
Yes.
vicki (11:22)
but I have a question for you.
Lonny Goldsmith (11:24)
Please.
vicki (11:26)
Because I've always grown up thinking there are others. There are people who are others and Jews who are very poor. I mean there's a group of outsiders or
vicki (11:42)
that it's hard to connect and it's hard it's hard to in to be inclusive sometimes or t to feel that you Judaism is inclusive. Do you have you noticed that all or that that's more my perception.
Lonny Goldsmith (11:58)
No, I think it can be. I think I think every place is a little bit different. I've been in the Twin Cities now, with my wife, and we've for twenty-four plus years, both our kids were born here. And, you know, the community it it can be tough to break into. and I think that can be anywhere. I don't think this is just endemic to the Twin Cities. I think
vicki (12:25)
yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (12:26)
Community is hard to get into if you're not willing to put yourself out there a little bit. which is something
vicki (12:31)
Mm-hmm. It's true.
Lonny Goldsmith (12:33)
we we teach our kids all the time. You've gotta sort of get comfortable with
vicki (12:37)
Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (12:38)
the idea of being uncomfortable.
vicki (12:41)
You're
Lonny Goldsmith (12:43)
And we, you know, you also learn that not all people are your people. now I think we do, you know, there are there are abundant entry points. our editorial perspective at Jewfolk may not be for everybody, and that's okay, right? Like,
vicki (13:02)
Sure.
Lonny Goldsmith (13:02)
the things we cover you may not want to read about. That's all right too. We try to give a pretty
Lonny Goldsmith (13:07)
broad cross section of what's happening in the
vicki (13:08)
No.
Lonny Goldsmith (13:09)
community. But again, we know that that is not that's not what everybody wants to read. And that's fine. Like nowhere
vicki (13:16)
One size doesn't
Lonny Goldsmith (13:18)
one size does not fit all. We we cannot be all things to all people. We can, you know, be a lot of things to many people is sort of my goal. But I mean, and that's me personally. It's not speaking for the organization
vicki (13:30)
Mm-hmm.
Lonny Goldsmith (13:30)
or anything because I think others may disagree with me and that's okay too. Right. I I do
Lonny Goldsmith (13:37)
Hope we can engage as many people who want to be engaged, but you you know, you can serve up the headlines to people, but you can't make click. And that is the I mean, that is something that I think all editorial outlets sort of struggle with that concept.
vicki (13:58)
And you've never been a printed page, correct?
Lonny Goldsmith (14:01)
No, Jufok never been a printed page. I got my start working in newspapers, but so you know, I am old enough to have worked at a newspaper without a website. but yes, Jufolk has never been printed. it's just not where we think resources should be spent. And it's where I think most media is for better or worse starting to go. As much as I like to wax poetic about the old days of
Lonny Goldsmith (14:29)
Getting the newspaper from the box on a Sunday morning, I'm never gonna subscribe to a hard copy newspaper again.
vicki (14:37)
Okay. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (14:39)
But that that's that's just me though too. I'm I there are
vicki (14:43)
No, it's
Lonny Goldsmith (14:44)
others for whom it that's that's their that's their jam and that's great for them.
Lonny Goldsmith (14:52)
Love that for them.
vicki (14:52)
No.
Lonny Goldsmith (14:53)
But that it's not where we're going.
vicki (14:55)
Well, it's not the future and i for years if I didn't read it in the Jewish world I didn't know what was happening. So
Lonny Goldsmith (15:05)
So how how did you find or or how did you connect with the Jewish community and has that evolved for you since you were, you know, younger being raised in a, you know, as a in a small town community as a kid? With immigrant with immigrant parents, I believe, correct?
vicki (15:25)
Right,
vicki (15:25)
exactly. yeah, which is another subset. But I also grew up
vicki (15:30)
in the South and the experience for Jews in small towns in the South has been different. And my brother, sister and I have always said we'd never never experienced any antisemitism growing up in Temple, Texas. Yeah, we felt very accepted. Well, is that true? No, I I'm sure most people did not want their children to marry us. you know, there is a and and when I
Lonny Goldsmith (15:54)
Fair.
vicki (15:55)
and sometimes you know, we heard it. yeah, but my and going to the University of Texas, there were Jewish sororities and fraternities and the most outstanding kids, Jewish kids did not get invited to non Jewish. It was very segregated,
Lonny Goldsmith (16:13)
sure.
vicki (16:13)
very institutionally segregated.
vicki (16:18)
I can remember the first you and the invited to be in the s country club of our small town. You know. But you just accepted that. It was just the way it was.
Lonny Goldsmith (16:28)
Right.
Lonny Goldsmith (16:30)
So you moved up to Minnesota then after college.
vicki (16:34)
I met my husband in college and he was
Lonny Goldsmith (16:36)
Okay.
vicki (16:37)
so anxious to come back.
Lonny Goldsmith (16:40)
So how d I I'm curious, I know this is, you know, the interview about you, but I'm curious, how does Ben find his way to So you you met him at at UT Austin?
vicki (16:49)
I actually I went to UT Austin for a couple of years and I was, you know, eighteen nineteen and I decided it was too rigid. It was too it was too subtle
Lonny Goldsmith (16:56)
Okay.
vicki (16:57)
and racist, which what it so ac actually I wanted to go to the University of Colorado because they had, you know, it it was a party school. And I was a thousand miles away from my family and I thought I was gonna go there and party. And I met him on the first night and
Lonny Goldsmith (17:13)
Ha.
vicki (17:15)
that sort of limited the parties.
vicki (17:17)
But I we got married when we were twenty because our parents you know, small town Jews, you were sent well, to camp and then you were sent to college
Lonny Goldsmith (17:27)
Yeah.
vicki (17:27)
to meet someone. So it worked.
Lonny Goldsmith (17:30)
So how did your parents end up in Temple, Texas?
vicki (17:34)
My parents story is, I think, somewhat well, every story is unique, but my father father, who was a a little mishuggy he was a little crazy, traveled to the United States supposedly thirteen times. And he would work here and then he would take the money back, supposedly. Well, it's that's pretty much based on truth. On one trip he took his wife and two children.
vicki (18:02)
On that trip, my father was born in New York City. So he was an American
Lonny Goldsmith (18:07)
Mm.
vicki (18:08)
and that saved them. And the reason my grandfather went back is he thought women in the United States had too much freedom. And he was afraid his wife might flirt with the butcher or so he took his family back in the middle of the night. They never even had a chance to say goodbye to their relatives here.
vicki (18:31)
And because of that misogynistic decision, half of his children and his grandchildren died in the Holocaust.
vicki (18:40)
My father and two brothers, well, and my mother's family was from Prague. My father was from a shtetl She was a city girl. He met her going to medical school in Prague, which was the and it's by fact the only medical school in Europe taking Jews at that time. So
Lonny Goldsmith (19:03)
Really?
vicki (19:04)
yeah, so he went to medical school, sort of worked his way through, they got married.
vicki (19:09)
And he was able to sneak my mother out and my sister, but he could have taken my sister legitimately, but he had to really sneak my mother out. And he yeah, and he snuck he got her sister out. He lost two sisters and a brother. She lost anyone left there. So
vicki (19:30)
so he came here and he was a doctor, but he didn't speak a word of English. So he picked it up and he learned and he got a job and
vicki (19:39)
They worked their way up because basically they, you know, certainly came with nothing. They couldn't
Lonny Goldsmith (19:43)
Right.
vicki (19:44)
take anything out.
Lonny Goldsmith (19:46)
I mean, in a unfortunately, your your parents' story s of their relatives is terribly common.
vicki (19:56)
Yes.
Lonny Goldsmith (19:59)
Amongst people
Lonny Goldsmith (19:59)
who were there at that time.
vicki (20:02)
Yes, they were very and they were very grateful. They were very they they were he was so thrilled he could find a job and he worked for the US government. He was a at veterans' hospitals. He loved it.
Lonny Goldsmith (20:13)
Really?
vicki (20:14)
Yes. He never went into
Lonny Goldsmith (20:16)
I mean it
Lonny Goldsmith (20:17)
feel feels like such a nice way to give sort of I mean, he's getting paid for it, it's not volunteer work, but like as a way to give back to this country that that took him in.
vicki (20:26)
Sure, they were very patriotic. Yes.
vicki (20:31)
So they raised three children in Temple, Texas. And he worked for a VA hospital.
Lonny Goldsmith (20:38)
Where is Temple? I've heard of Temple Texas. I just have no idea in the geography where is Temple.
vicki (20:43)
It's in the middle, it's halfway between Dallas and San Antonio. It's near Waco. Now everyone knows Waco. But
Lonny Goldsmith (20:47)
Okay. okay. Yes.
vicki (20:51)
and that's where our synagogue was in Waco.
Lonny Goldsmith (20:53)
Okay. So what was it like growing up in this small community, but but you know, tied to a synagogue, you know, then going to these j big campuses and then ending up back in sort of small town, but not close to really any Jewish community to speak of, not that close anyway. What
vicki (21:14)
Right, right.
Lonny Goldsmith (21:15)
was that journey like for you as somebody who grew up practicing and having this, you know, tethered to a Jewish community?
vicki (21:22)
Well, when you say practicing, my father grew up in a very religious family, of course, in a shuttle. You know, his fa
Lonny Goldsmith (21:28)
Yeah.
vicki (21:29)
his grandfather was the rabbi that traveled, whatever. My mother was an assimilated city girl. So she she knew nothing. My in-laws were the same way. My mother in law grew up in a very observant family. I think my father in law had never been in a to in a synagogue until he married.
vicki (21:52)
And he was Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (21:52)
interesting.
vicki (21:54)
And he came from small town Jews. So
Lonny Goldsmith (21:57)
Yeah.
vicki (21:58)
I I don't know if I had any
vicki (22:02)
thought about what this meant for my future as an adult at all. When you're 20, you don't always think of you know, I knew we would belong
Lonny Goldsmith (22:09)
No, yes, you don't
vicki (22:12)
to a synagogue. I knew we would, you know, do some of the rituals, some of some of things, but but I did not have a good Jewish background, which I think also makes you feel like an outsider. I went to a reform synagogue. It was the 60s, we sang Michael, row your boat ashore.
vicki (22:32)
And did what would you do if a black person needed this? I mean, it was very sixties liberal, so I it you can try to educate yourself, but if I have to go on a BEMA I still get butterflies.
Lonny Goldsmith (22:47)
Look, I I grew up in it and had Bar Mitzvah and have read Torah and I still get butterflies going up there. Like that's that's totally normal, I think.
vicki (23:00)
Probably.
Lonny Goldsmith (23:03)
So what I I guess like, help me understand, what's the best part about living in a small town?
vicki (23:13)
Ugh well at my age driving is really easy. But you know
Lonny Goldsmith (23:17)
Ha ha ha ha.
vicki (23:20)
yeah, there is a a very comfortable you know, feeling about knowing people here for 40 years and Yeah. And it's yeah we've found people that we have things in common with and it's it's very politically conservative.
vicki (23:41)
Supposedly one of the most Republican counties in the state. Yes,
Lonny Goldsmith (23:45)
is that? Interesting.
vicki (23:47)
it is. so there's lots of and and very Christian and there's you know, there's lots of support in that and there's lots of sometimes a little discomfort,
Lonny Goldsmith (24:02)
Yeah. well Vicki, this has been fascinating and we will have a link where people can find your book on the Jewish historical society of the upper Midwest website. But before we let you go, last couple of questions. thank you for holding it up. I appreciate that.
vicki (24:20)
I'm not good at selling, but I I gotta I owe it to
Lonny Goldsmith (24:23)
Ha ha ha ha.
vicki (24:24)
the Jewish Historical Society. They've been great partners.
Lonny Goldsmith (24:27)
Well, that's fantastic. But before I let you go, Vicki, last two questions we like to end on. First, what is your favorite Jewish holiday?
vicki (24:38)
Passover because
Lonny Goldsmith (24:40)
Okay.
vicki (24:40)
it's so easy to it's I love having company for Passover. And I'm
Lonny Goldsmith (24:46)
Okay.
vicki (24:46)
not a cook. It but I it it's just you can do with it what you want though. And it's I love having people who aren't Jewish come to Passover and they feel I've had a bishop from this area for Passover
Lonny Goldsmith (24:59)
Really?
vicki (25:00)
and a couple other because this is a great time to it's a great time to
vicki (25:07)
let people know about what you hold dear. so definitely p Passover. and yeah. I I
Lonny Goldsmith (25:17)
Yeah.
vicki (25:18)
should yeah, Passover.
Lonny Goldsmith (25:20)
Passover. And what is your favorite Jewish food?
vicki (25:24)
You know, that's that's a tough one. My father was the cook it for Jewish thing. My father made great gefilte fish. And I
Lonny Goldsmith (25:31)
Ha ha.
vicki (25:32)
think most people would choose that, but his was so good. He also made great matzo balls. I mean he came from a family that were bakers. so mm, that's really hard. I guess I would say gefilte fish 'cause I can't I can't make it. It's hard to make but
Lonny Goldsmith (25:49)
It
Lonny Goldsmith (25:50)
Yes. that's one of those that I'm happy to let other people make. I don't need to I don't need to make it.
vicki (25:53)
No. Yeah. Fish heads. Yes. Yeah.
Lonny Goldsmith (25:58)
No. No, I'm okay eating the finished product. I don't need to see it done though, that's for sure. well, Vicki Pieser, this has been a blast. Again, the book is Jews in Germantown, The Diaspora in Brown County, Minnesota. thank you so much for joining me. we really appreciate it.
vicki (26:15)
Well, I thank you for what you're doing. I'm like I said, I've got a lot of reading to do to catch up.
Lonny Goldsmith (26:21)
Well,
Lonny Goldsmith (26:21)
I we appreciate that and we're glad you found us and glad that you recommended yourself to be on the pod. I I always appreciate when people shoot their shot that way.
vicki (26:32)
Thank you very much. Good visiting with you, Lonny Thanks.
Lonny Goldsmith (26:34)
You too.
Lonny Goldsmith (26:38)
The Who the Folk Podcast is part of the Jewfolk Podcast Network, a product of Jewfolk Inc. Episodes are edited and produced by me, Lonnie Goldsmith, the editor in chief of Jewfolk. If you have suggestions for a great guest, send me an email at editor@jewfolk.com For more great Jewfolk podcasts, go to TCJewfolk.com/podcast.