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Elite Heat is the All Elite Wrestling podcast for fans who want more than just a recap.
Every week, Tim and Dug — two AEW fans who've been All Elite since day one — react to AEW Dynamite and Collision, break down the latest storylines, analyze the characters driving the product, and give you their unfiltered take on everything happening in All Elite Wrestling.
From weekly show reactions to PPV breakdowns, roster moves to long-term booking analysis, Elite Heat covers the full spectrum of AEW. No fluff, no filler...just two passionate pro wrestling fans who care deeply about the product and aren't afraid to say exactly what they think.
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I do not like when they do worked concussion stuff. I don't like when any wrestling company does it. I don't like it because you're going to do something in that match that may lead to a real concussion. I don't think it's something you should use as a work. Welcome back, Douglas. Welcome back. Let's see
Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be back. Good to be back.
Let's see if we can find you some redemption. See what I did there?
Do. And I'm really glad you did that. I'm really glad you did that. Thank you for that.
Honestly, I'm out. I'm out on that one. You have fun. Take it the rest of the way. Bye.
Okay, there was a redemption pay-per-view tonight from Canada.
Yes. Yes there was. From Montreal. I don't know why I said it that way. That sounded more like Dracula than anything, but all right. Whatever.
Can we have one from Transylvania, please?
I don't see why not, frankly. But yeah.
Thank you. That's all I needed. That's all I needed.
Yeah. But anyway, so let us talk about the first ever redemption that came to us from Montreal tonight. Kind of a lot going on with this show, and also kind of not a lot going on with this show.
I felt exactly the same way about that. That is bonkers, but yes, you—
Yeah.
—were 100% accurate in that bizarre statement. But it's very accurate. It's true.
It is true. And I'm sure we'll talk about this more as it goes on because we've kind of been talking about it in the lead up to it anyway. But yeah, I have some thoughts. I have some thoughts on the idea of redemption and specifically where it fell on the calendar. Because like I said, we've been talking about that, but we'll get more into that as we go through this, I'm sure. However, real quick before we dive into the heat check. Let's welcome a new friend to the show. And that friend is Doich Foods. They have cookie dough
Yes, yes.
That has like protein in it. And I'm super excited because we're teaming up with them. And I put my first order in. I got a variety pack because you can't ask me to pick between the flavors. That's not gonna happen.
No, that's it that's exactly what I'm doing too, for that exact same reason.
Yeah, I can't pick between those. And
No.
The names of the flavors are fun. And like I've been eating cookie dough since the eighties, since like before they said, hey, don't do that.
Exactly.
But I also watch my macros, so I'm pretty excited that this is lower in sugar and higher in protein. I'm very excited to get those in. If you'd like to try it, go to doichfoods.com. Let me spell that for you: D-O-I—
Please do.
Yeah, Doich. D-O-I-C-H, doichfoods.com. When you check out, use code ELITEHEAT, all one word, and you'll get 20% off. Again, I highly recommend the variety pack because I don't know how you pick between those flavors.
Exactly. Exactly. And then you find your favorite and then you get to you know, then you can either get more variety packs or just get the one or two
Yeah.
You really, really like.
Right. Get a four pack, six pack of it. I don't care. Do it. I'm not your mom. Do what you want. But look. I accidentally bumped the mic and Scott—hell, Scott Hall fell. All right, let me get him back here. But
Man. You know, y you could do an all elite thing and just get like ten flavor or ten ten of one flavor, ten of another flavor, and then pit them together to battle it out. And that is such an AEW thing to do.
Ooh, there you go. That really is. You could call it an all-star match, an all-star eight cookie dough match or whatever.
Yes, yes.
But anyway, Doich Foods—very excited to be working with them. That's doichfoods.com. Use code ELITEHEAT when you check out and you'll get 20% off. Your tum-tum will be happy because this—
Yes, no.
Is smarter snacking, which is something I'm all about.
Look, if you if snacking's snacking's in it, I'm in it.
Yeah. I mean, like I said, legit, I'm trying to watch my macros and I have a sweet tooth and I'm always looking for ways to get sweet things without it wrecking my body. Because as you can tell, I treat it like a temple. Not a word. Not a word.
I was just gonna say I treat mine just like a temple, but my temple is Indiana Jones's Temple of Doom.
The Temple of Doom? Yeah, yeah. Well done. Well done.
You know, that out of the way, I feel like your summation was really accurate and it plays out during the buy-in. Because
Yes. Well, okay. So let's talk about the Buy-In real quick. I th I didn't realize that they had backed it up an hour. I thought it started at six our time, like usual. So I pretty much missed the Buy-In. I turned it on at like five fifty and went, that's just Jeff Jarrett, Mick and Renee. Alrighty.
But here's what's weird, because this was a show that had a lot going on, but not a lot going on. And the buy-in is a perfect
Mm-hmm.
Example because for the first time we had one match during the buy-in. It didn't even start for
Yeah, so like I went yeah, I went and looked
30 Minutes.
Yeah, I went and looked it up because I was like, well what did I miss? And I saw literally the only thing I missed with the was the trios match and I went, so I didn't miss anything. And
Yep. Nope.
Also I don't know why they did that on the on the buy and I thought that was gonna be on like Collision or something. Which
Yeah, I don't understand the placement of that. But
I don't either. Anyway, that's gonna feed into another thing that I'm gonna debut here tonight, which is you know how there's like this meeting could have been an email.
Yes.
This match could have been on Dynamite. We're gonna do several of those tonight.
Love it.
I we are we are, but I'm I have a justification behind it. But so anyway, so let's talk about redemption here. Let's begin with the heat check. What did you like, Doug?
Okay. There's a lot there actually it's weird because, like you said, there was a lot of story told and yet not a lot of story told. And that's because so much of the actual story being told really centered around the elite. You had
Mm-hmm.
You had basically the Bucks and a big story with them and Deathspray and Then the biggest story happening was at the end with Kenny, the Bucks, and the Death Riders. You had some other beats in there with Willow, of course, and Thekla. So the storytelling, what was there, I really, really liked. And then the stories that were kind of absent, the matches were still good. It just
Yeah.
Made the whole thing feel weird. But if we're going for the things I really liked, I liked the Bucks versus Deathspray. I liked it the
Mm-hmm.
Whole thing. Start to finish. I thought the Fletcher Bendito match was solid, solid, solid. I gave bonus points to the sign in the crowd that says Kyle Fletcher is a fashion a fashion icon. So I really like that. The Death Riders for some reason I'm okay with them helping the dogs, but I still don't understand it. We can get more into that later.
I don't get it either.
The two story beats I really, really liked was the Maya World story beat and the Willow Nightingale story beat. I thought those were both really good matches. And I just I really, really liked all of that. Cope and Cage versus Pac and Claudio. That's okay, I guess I'll wait for the meh part of that.
Yeah.
But the Andrade. Andrade Mark Davis. Great match, great ending, loved it. And the main event. Here's what I love about the main event. You and I both criticized the main event for not having a lot of story going in, not having a lot of heat, not having a lot of buildup. What I liked about it is for the first time, I think Kevin Knight legitimately looks like a world champion contender and challenger. He looked So good. I thought this is possibly my favorite Kevin Knight performance since joining the Don Callis Family. I thought he looked amazing in this. I thought his performances and the nuances he was adding between moves and just his weird smiling and like, haha, you can't get me. Loved it. And I think he looks like by the end of that match, I'm thinking, yeah, you know what? He's not gonna win today. Give him a year, maybe two. He's going to be holding. A bigger title, possibly the world title. And he should, 'cause he's phenomenal.
Yep. I agree with all that.
So those those are my those are my real heat checks, those are my likes there. So yeah. Little little rambly, but yes.
No, I mean, I agree with you. I could make an argument the show is a little rambly, so that kind of fits. But
Okay, that's fair. 'cause yes it is.
Yeah, here's the stuff I liked. Very similar to in fact I think it's gonna match up entirely with yours. Ladder match I thought was really good. The Yeah,
I totally forgot, but you're right.
The ladder match I thought was really good. Bucks versus Mox and Ospreay were good. Although I'm gonna nitpick this when we get to it, and I'm
It's fine.
Gonna preface it with, I realize this is a me thing, but I that went from a match that, like, the best way I can put it is I think logically I know it was a good match, but I did not enjoy it as much as I think I should have. So we'll
I understand that completely.
Yeah, we'll we'll talk about that here in a minute. Fletcher versus Bandito, at one point, well, I after the match, I was like, It's gonna be hard for somebody to take match of the night from them. But I did know Kenny Omega was on the card, so I wasn't ready to just hand it over, but they were tremendous.
Yes. Yes, they were.
I thought the dogs and the Bang Bang Gang were very good.
Mm-hmm.
Andrade and Mark Davis were excellent.
Yes.
Thekla and Willow were very good. The main event was excellent. And I will say the promo that With Renee talking to Ospreay and Moxley was good. And again, part of like you're talking about the storytelling of it, because the Elite and the Death Riders are the two main characters of this show tonight, period.
Yep. Yep.
And you're right, there's a few other beats in here, but they're the main characters.
The elite Death Riders in Will Ospreay.
Yeah, what yes, which
There's there's a reason I separated them.
Right now I'm still putting Ospreay in yeah. Right now I'm still putting them in there just in case somebody's listening to it that hasn't watched the show yet. But if you're listening to this and you haven't watched the show yet.
Sorry
Quite sure. You know what you need to do? You need to just hit pause and go get your cookie dough and then come back. Okay. Like
We'll wait.
Yeah.
And we're back.
Yeah. So the stuff that was mid. Do you have anything in that category?
The stuff that was mid, weirdly, the ladder match, even though it was really, really good, there was
Mm-hmm.
A real big awkward lull when they were getting the tables out. And it just for me, it sucked all the air out of the room and it took a while for that to get back. Still really liked
Fair.
It. I'm not gonna put Painmaker versus Psycho Killer in the dislike. I'm gonna put it in the mid. I just there weren't a lot of there weren't a lot of story beats in this, and there was weirdly a lot of comedy in it for a match that's supposed to be just brutal. And I didn't understand that. And I felt that it went way too long.
Mm-hmm.
As far as other mids go, that's basically it. I felt like the only Overarching mid, I will say, is I felt like a lot of these matches were giving a l were given a lot of time, which is fine, but you can't
I agree.
Give every match 30 minutes.
I agree.
And I feel like that's what they did.
Yep. I totally agree with you. Mid stuff for me, The Demand promo falls in the mid for me. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it fell in the mid. Cope and Cage versus PAC and Claudio is in the mid for me. Not a bad match, but it's gonna be part of the theme of the night that we're gonna talk about. Mick Foley with Divine Dominion goes in the mid for me. It almost fell in the bad for me. It's weird.
I put it in the bad, dude. I Yep.
It's I don't blame you. It's weird. It like I said, it almost fell there for me. It's friggin' weird. The bad for me, Jericho and Ciampa went in there.
Okay.
Actually for the reasons you were talking about.
Yep.
It went in the bad for me. This one, I'm gonna be just straight honest. This breaks my heart, but Maya World and Shida were bad. That match was bad.
You know what? I will give you that, and here's why. Because I was behind, and that is
Mm.
One of the matches that I fast-forwarded some of the things through. So I do I don't think I had a good picture of the whole match when I put it in my good. I think I was just giving it the ending and the story for Maya World, but not the match quality itself. So I'll give you that.
Yeah, so I totally get that. And at one point I actually wrote down I'm gonna put it in the mid solely because of the finish. But the more I thought about it, the more I went, This match was bad. And I'm gonna be honest and put it in the bad, even though it makes me sad. I didn't mean to rhyme that, but here we are. Yep.
I will have to I'd love it, but I'll I'll have to rewatch it from start to finish to probably just confirm you your judgment.
I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I
Okay. Wow. That's too bad. That's you're right. That makes me sad.
It makes me sad. It really genuinely does, but I wouldn't. I would not go back
Okay.
And watch it. And then the last thing in my bad category kind of
Okay, because
Goes along with what you were saying there, the show length. They gave too many matches too much time. And Not it's exactly
We do.
What you said. Not all these need 30 minutes. It felt to me like you were stretching for the sake of trying to get to five hours, which is about what we clock in at, give or take.
Yes it was.
Didn't need to be that long. And I'm gonna show you when we start doing the this match could have been an email, how this didn't have to be a reach for five hours. So
So have we gone from this match should have been on Dynamite to just it should have been an email now? Yes. This match should have been a storyboard.
Yeah. Yeah, I like that better. Should have been in it should have it should have been an email. Anyway, maybe it should have been a promo. I don't know. But
Oof.
Did was any what's on what if anything is on your bad list?
Like I said, the bad for me, the divine dominion thing I think is what I put in the bad too because it was
I get that.
It served the only purpose it served was to say, Hey, brawling birds, you haven't fought them. Well, yeah, because they haven't been a tag team in forever and whatever. And
Yeah.
That was the only real point. And then Mick doing a weird that dog thing when they said bow down, but he was
It was weird, man. Yeah.
Bow Wowing it and they let it go and let it go until
Yeah.
He called a stop to it. And I was like,
Yes.
What is happening? That was so weird and bad.
Yeah, so we'll break that we'll break that down when we get to it 'cause I have some thoughts on it too, but yeah, it was weird. Okay.
But that was that was the biggest bad for me, other than like I said before, the overarching too every match was too long.
Yeah. Okay. So with that, let's break this show down. We begin with the six man ladder match, which like I said, I thought was pretty good. Now I
Mm-hmm.
Hear you on those beats that took some of the air out. I was like, this match actually should have ended in about three minutes because The Beast Mortos had so much time to climb the ladder and instead was pointing and doing all this stuff, and it makes zero sense. There's yeah.
Yep. There was a there was a lot of that in that match for me for the and
Yeah. I don't know if it was a thing where the timing wasn't there because they didn't have as much time to try to work stuff out because guys were clearing up visa issues. Like there's a reason that there were unannounced people for it at first because they
Yeah.
Didn't know who they were gonna have and who they weren't.
Exactly.
I don't know if that was part of it. I don't know. But it entertained me enough that I put it in the good. I
Mm-hmm.
Think if you're gonna do a ladder match. And you said to me, like pick six dudes that aren't, you know, the top guys, those might be the six dudes I pick, you know.
Yeah. I don't have any problem with who was in it at all.
Yeah.
I actually really, really liked the selection, but as they're going through and announcing, they get to speedball Mike Bailey and I literally wrote, Hmm, is the Canadian going to win?
Yeah. I will say going into it, I thought Jack Perry was gonna win just because he had just
I did too.
Re-signed and they kind of don't know what to do. He's kind of been in limbo while they were working out the contract and everything. I thought Jack might win it, but man, when I heard that pop for Speedball, I went, Wow, he's gonna win.
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. But I mean the
Yeah. So I Yeah.
The action in the match was great. Like I wrote down holy crap, Komander. You can pick almost
Yes.
Any moment and you're gonna be okay with that
Mm-hmm.
Statement. So you know. I thought Yeah, I
Yeah. Yeah, good match, but
Thought the ladder bridge spots, both of them were amazing.
I agree.
And the speedball double knees at the end, loved it. Loved it. And
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah.
The thing I like about it is the story beats coming out of it is clearly this is, I think clearly, this is gonna set speedball up and try and rekindle the feud with him and Kevin Knight is my is my guess, because he's gonna go after
I think so too. Yeah.
The Don Callis Family, a title, and he's probably gonna win it, in my humble opinion. And then you sort
I think so too.
Of see those two beef again.
Yep. I think you're probably right about that. I hope you're right about that, because I think we left a lot of meat on that bone.
Yes, we did.
But we shall see. Then we get the first of the this match could have been an email for me. Because it's the Young Bucks and Moxley and Ospreay. Now, here, yep.
Interesting.
Here's my justification for why. Remember, the original premise is this should have been on Dynamite.
Okay.
Here is Th this is gonna encompass a lot of the pretty much everything of the matches that I went. This didn't need to be on the card tonight.
Fair enough.
First thing that made me put it there is there's not really story behind this headed into it. There's not a lot of heat behind it. Like the Bucks have kind of been on the fringe of it, right? And
Absolutely. Yep.
You've got the Mox Ospreay team that they're sort of doing some with, but sort of not doing anything with, right?
Yep. Uh-huh.
And so. Not a ton of heat going into this one, right? Not a ton of storyline going into it. So that's my first issue with it. And again, on a pay-per-view where you had a bunch of matches that were too long anyway, and where it felt to me like you're stretching to get to five hours, and I don't need it to be five hours,
No, I do not.
This would have been a great Dynamite main event. Would have been
Yeah, it would.
Great. It didn't need to be the second match on this card. So again, this is kind of the theme. So here were all my thoughts on it. And I'm curious to see what you think about it. So, first off, I was thinking we're teasing an Ospreay heel turn. More and more,
I Yep.
As I thought about it leading this week leading into the show, I was like, I think they might turn him heel, which was kind of interesting because I'm not sure you get him over as a heel in London, but You got time between now and then and you got stories to tell. So I was really thinking he's turning heel on this. Now I will say this. I was I went to the bathroom, so I missed whatever happened that set up the Nick has a concussion thing.
Okay, yeah. That was just him and Will Ospreay, they were both coming at each other and they bonk heads. And that's what started that
Mm-hmm. Okay.
For me, that's the first big story beat in this in this match. And I feel like there were a ton of story seeds in this match, but
Mm-hmm.
Continue.
No, I agree with you that there are a bunch of story seeds in it. But again, you could have planted them on Wednesday just as easily as on a Sunday, you know.
That's true. Yep.
Here's where I'm gonna nitpick this match. And like I told you in the heat check, this is what kept me from really enjoying the match. I do not like when they do worked concussion stuff. I don't like when any wrestling company does it. I don't like it because we know so many wrestlers have had their brains legit scrambled. I don't like it because you're going to do something in that match that may lead to a real concussion. Okay. That's a massive risk that they take on when they sign up to be a professional wrestler. I don't like it because I've had concussions and I know how it feels. Okay. So I don't like when they work that angle. It bugs me, it makes me feel weird. I don't like it. Okay, especially when you think about all the different wrestlers who have either died or lost their career over traumatic brain injuries. Like it's not I don't think it's something you should use as a work. Okay.
No, considering Adam Cole is on the bench right now because of it.
Yeah. And is probably never gonna wrestle again because of it. You know, I mean, Bryan Danielson is employed by your company and had to retire because they told him your brain is basically mush, you know. I mean, so I don't like that. The other thing that held me back that's more of a kayfabe thing, I guess, or more of a psychology thing, is I'm sorry, but if somebody is legitimately attempting to murder my brother. Because if he's supposed to be that concussed, right, this is now quite literally life or death. If somebody's trying to murder him, I don't give a damn about if I'm gonna lose the match via DQ or not. I'm getting a chair and I'm swinging for the fences. You're not coming within five feet of him without getting smacked in the face by a folding chair.
Or even better, I'm grabbing my brother and I'm going to the back.
Yeah, that too. I mean, like if the doctor's not going to step in, if the referee's not going to do what a referee is supposed to do in that situation, and it wasn't that long ago that we saw a referee in TNA stop a main event because one of the people was concussed and said, No, we can't go on. Like, we know how this is supposed to work, which is why you can't work it as an angle. We know how this is supposed to go, and we know how serious this is. So I'm sorry, but if my brother, if my flesh and blood is a Is literally life and death situation. You're not getting near him until somebody stops the damn match.
Yep. And to double down on what you just said, how long ago was it when we had referee stoppage for Will because of his
Yeah.
Neck?
Yeah. It wasn't that long ago, a couple of months. I mean
And it was every time he hit the ring, there was a doctor ready. And yet here we have Nick on the outside wandering around like me on a Monday night at 130 looking for some kind of snack in the kitchen because I haven't got my Doich yet.
Mm-hmm.
Logically, it doesn't flow.
No. And Matt doing the whole like, are you sure you're okay? Are you sure you're okay? No, I'm not letting you in the match. I'm not tagging you in. Like,
Right.
If somebody's got to be the adult here, and I
Mm-hmm.
Know I'm in the ring with an attempted murderer and Jon Moxley, because don't forget he's attempted to murder multiple people.
Yes he has.
I'm so like I'm getting a weapon and you're not coming anywhere near him.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, that's just the bottom line. And so that really took me out of the match. And so when I say logically, I can look at it and say this is a good match, I mean that. But I also know that
Yep. No, I get it. Yeah.
The way they told this particular story of this particular match took me out of it. And that sucks. That
Yep. Yep.
Bums me out.
Yep.
Otherwise it was fine.
I have nothing I mean I it's interesting because, you know, I have a whole bunch of notes about story seeds and what what's going on
Mm-hmm.
And yada yada, you know, Nick gets his bell rung and it's lingering. And notice at no point, which is I find really telling now that we're looking back on it, not once did any announcer say he should be checked for concussion. Like the word concussion never left their mouths, and I'm sure it was intentional. You know, but you have Will checking on Nick. That's a little seed for him and Mox. Mox piledrives Nick on the outside, continuing that story. Will hits Mox accidentally, that continues that story. Will wants the ref to make Nick tag out. And again, like and I wasn't connecting the dots like you did, but it makes so much sense. The ref should have stopped the match. Period. Because how many
Yeah. I mean
Times do we hear Taz or anyone else say the ref is there for the well-being of the wrestlers?
They said it in this match. They said it in this match. They said the referees got to make a decision. And Taz said they're there for the well-being of the wrestler. They said it, or I don't think it was Taz, because I don't think he was out yet at this point.
Might've been Excalibur, yeah.
I think it was Excalibur. Yeah. But they so they said it in this match. And so at best, you once again made the referee and the ringside doctor look bad at their jobs, right? Like l you made them look straight up negligent. At worst. You're taking us out of the story, right? By doing
Mm-hmm.
That. And so I think you could have, A, you could have done this match on a Wednesday night and saved me 30, 40 minutes, whatever it was. B, you could have worked this exact same angle, but it could have been his knee. It could have been his shoulder. It could have been an ankle. It could have been any non critical injury. You know what I mean?
Yep. Any other body part.
Any other body part. And you still get it across of Nick is hurt and Mox is going for the kill and Ospreay's got to make a decision of who he wants to be. And you could have done all that without it being brain trauma, which is not fucking funny in the world of professional wrestling.
You know what? None of the fact that it was brain trauma w it didn't enter into my head because clear I think the reason I didn't make that leap was Nick clearly was just pretending, like clearly. And
Yeah.
So and so I wasn't making but I should have. And after going over this, you're you're right. It's no longer on my like list. And yes, there's a lot of story seeds from it, which made me like it a lot. But the fact that they are going to use an injury like that, a you know, a kayfabed injury like that, to
Yeah.
For you know, it's as egregious as when they've the WWE used Hawk's alcoholism or Scott Hall's alcoholism was brought into a storyline. That's egregious and should never happen because it's too close to reality and all you're doing is exploiting it. And this isn't something to fuck around with.
Mm-hmm.
And you're 100% right. No, they should have done almost anything else but that.
Yeah. I mean y like I said, you can get it across with any other injury and
Mm-hmm.
The you know, I think an ankle even makes more sense for them because of the style that the Bucks wrestle, but specifically how Nick wrestles, the way he
Yeah. Or
Bounces around and all that.
With Will on the other side, have it be a neck injury.
Yeah. I mean, even that I'd be a little hinky about, but I'm less hinky about it than a concussion, right? And the other part of it too is, and maybe this is why it rang with me differently, because I missed the setup of it, because I didn't see, you know, the setup.
Set the setup the setup wasn't worth the payoff to be to be frank because it was one of those
Well, that's fair.
Things where they do something and it's like they hit heads and normally when you get people hitting their heads you know it's like you know they wobble around for a moment
Yeah.
And then they come back and everything's fine but they let this linger. The
Yeah.
The only reason I would say they could use the neck injury is because Will knows how how that goes. And so
Right.
At least at least with that kind of severe injury You have it dovetailing into a story we already know. This you're right. This concussion
Mm-hmm.
Thing is bullshit. And now then now you know what? I've talked myself into I don't like this match. Nope, I don't like it.
Well, again I'm not gonna say All right, fair enough. But you know, like when when I sat down, I came back to the couch and I sit down and Nick's doing the thousand yard stare and they're going, I don't know if he's okay. I'm my first thought was, crap, what did I miss? Like, and I'm thinking, he's legit hurt and then he starts hitting offense. I'm like, okay, he's fine. But like, I don't know, man. I didn't I don't like concussion angles. I don't like that they did it. They could have done this differently. And again, this match could have been an email.
I'm with you on that one now. Yep. Take it off the take it off the pay-per-view and we would have been okay.
Yeah. Again, great main event on a Wednesday night. You know? And yeah.
Yeah. If you leave the concussion out of it, then it's a great main event.
Yeah. And I also kinda have to wonder if they were trying to do something like that, if like TNT would have gone or TBS would have gone make it a different body part, you know.
They should have.
So but pay-per-view, nobody's doing that. So I and I get it that this is gonna play into the to the rest of the show. I get all that. I have ideas on how they could have booked this and still made it happen on a Wednesday night, but we'll deal with that later.
Yeah.
So from there, Fletcher and Bandito fought for the international title, which I think you and I have established we both thought was really good.
My God, so good.
I thought it was really, really good. I really don't have anything to add to that other than the only problem I have with the match is a problem that I have with a couple matches on this card tonight, which again falls into the I don't know that I would have put redemption in this spot on the calendar. I never really believed Bandito was gonna win.
No. Not really, no.
I mean, especially with Speedball winning the contract for the international title earlier in the night, you could pretty
Yes.
Clearly see where we're going with it. I just never thought he was gonna win. That said,
Mm-mm.
It's a hell of a match.
It is a hell of a match. And one of the things that I found weird was Excalibur points out early on that Fletcher's wearing different boots. And then they go on to talk about that for what I felt was it too long to not have it be anything. So unless they're, you know, trying to sell us on, ooh, pay attention. This could be a thing to get us. I it was just weird to me because it
It was.
And I know I'm nitpicking that, but you know, whatever. The biggest story beat that came out of this is that Kyle proved he could do it without the DCF. And you know, again,
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. And
That could have been a Dynamite.
It could have. I don't have a problem with them putting it on the pay-per-view, even though there wasn't a ton of setup on this. I don't mind them putting it on the pay-per-view.
No.
And you're gonna, you know, again, it's this is kind of again of the several themes that come out of the show. Match A has something to do with match B down here on the card, right? There's
Mm-hmm. Yep.
A lot of that happening. I don't mind them doing it on the pay-per-view. It was it was a really good match. A little bit more story going into it would have made it would have justified it a little more on the card for me, but I don't have an issue with it. But again, when you have the ladder match first and then this, and the guy who's got beef with the Don Callis Family wins, and there's a Don Callis Family member in it. Like I can connect those dots, you know. Yeah. So it takes
Yep. Kinda see where that one's going and we did.
Some of that drama out of it. So I might have I might have stacked it differently. I might have taken. The international championship match and had it be first on the card and then move Yeah.
Yeah, that probably would have made more sense logically.
And move that ladder match down because now less obvious on the outcome of the title match, you know.
Here's the other thing that took a little bit away from this match for me. And it was right near the beginning. And I just wrote down, wow, Fletcher absolutely did not kick out of that first pinfall attempt by Bandito.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And that wasn't the only time it happened to the point where the announcers called out not one, but two different pinfall attempts that were so close that they even went, I don't know. And even
Mm-hmm.
On the replay, the announcers are selling it as someone messed up.
Yeah. Yeah.
But that first one was so egregious in my humble opinion that
Yeah.
I'm like, why are why are we do why do we continue to have you don't need to cut it that close.
You don't.
Period.
There are a lot of there are a lot of things in professional wrestling today that are a trope, that are cliche at this point. The kick out at 2.999 Is one of those and it keeps creating these situations. You don't always not everything has to be the false finish. Like I miss the days. Where they would kick out at one. I missed the days where they'd kick out before the ref even started to count. Because then the false finish brought that much more drama. Like, crap, we got to two. You know what I mean? Like
Yep. Yeah.
You remember that I know you remember that. You remember those days? Because I do.
Do. I absolutely do. And to your point, the more you have these 2.9 Pinfalls, the less impactful they become every single time. And you're using them a lot. Now,
Yes.
In mild defense of this, I do understand having that first pinfall be close because it helps
Mm-hmm.
Tell the story that holy crap, maybe he can't win without the Don Callis Family so quick
Mm-hmm.
And he needs to take this seriously. So I will forgive. The attempt at a false finish early. But man, Kyle, or whoever's responsible, kick out before three and don't make the ref look bad because and you did.
Yes, I agree. But I mean, like you know, same as I do, they used to build the match that way, right? So they would kick out real fast and then they start slowing down and then they slow down more and then they slow down more because you're tired. You've spent
Yeah.
All this energy, you've had the crap beaten out of you. Like it makes sense. It just makes complete sense to do that. Even in that situation where part of the story is can Kyle Fletcher win without the Don Callis Family? You can start getting those false finishes later in the match and still tell that story, you know, because the deeper, you know, as he goes into deeper water, as Bandito drags him deeper in, like, you sure you can do this on your own, bud? And that and that's what the announcers should be doing, right? That's what commentary should be talking about. I don't know if he can do it on his own. Like, you can still tell it without putting the referee in that position, and they do it way too much.
Yep. Yep they do. Yeah.
And it's not just AEW. It's everybody. You gotta go. And the other thing too, I've talked about this before. We live in the era of HD. I can see you. We live in the era of 4K. I can see
Yeah.
You staring at the referee. I know you're gonna kick out. I know you're gonna.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
It's lost its pop. Like, let it go. Let it go.
Yes. And like I said, this one I get the close one at first, but to make that impactful, the rest up until near the end need to be kicking out at one, kicking out at one and a half. You need you can't just have them all after that fall under
Yes. Yep.
That category. Because again, now it takes away that story beat and that point of being made and you've diluted it and now we're just waiting for
Yep.
Someone to win.
Well, we're waiting for the finish and we know the finish when we see it. You know,
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Like the false finish works when you put together a sequence that I see and I go, we're going home. And then you kick out and I go, now you got me. And by
Yeah. Yep.
The way, credit where it's due, they're very good at that. There
Mm-hmm.
Were several times on this show where there was a sequence I went, we're going that I thought we're going home. And no, we were not. And that's okay. You know what I mean? Like that's when the false finish works. But when every pinfall attempt, every pinfall attempt is
Mm-hmm.
Two point five or later, it just it's like I know that the first pinfall is not gonna be the you know what I mean? Like I know the first
Right.
Attempt is not gonna be the pinfall. Go ahead and kick out at one. It's okay.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
I really wish we had the cookie dough right now because I'm all fired up. But all right, that would settle me. But hopefully I get it this week.
Right? Exactly. Exactly. Well let's let's move on because
Yeah.
In spite of all that, that was still a really, really, really good match, a possible match of the night.
It was a very good match. Yeah. Yep. It was it was a strong contender for me. Even after
Mm-hmm.
The show was over, I thought about still giving it match of the night. I did not, but I thought about
Gotcha. Right.
It.
No, I understand that. Yeah.
Yeah. Then it got kinky 'cause we got chains out for the
Hey.
Dogs and the Bang Bang Gang.
I mean you got Bang Bang Gang and chains.
I'm I've seen that movie. But anyway, I'll be honest. I don't know if you listened on Wednesday. The chain thing confused me at first. I was like, I don't
Mm-hmm.
Understand how it factors in. And I was like, are they gonna chain all four of them together? I don't understand it. The answer was no. They chained two and two.
Mm-hmm.
The chain did not factor in as much as I thought it would, especially
Right.
When commentary setting it up going, it's about to get bloody. And I think this is like the one match where nobody bled.
I think you're right. I think you're right.
I mean, I think everybody else either they either bladed or got busted open the hard way. And I think this is the one time it didn't happen, which is really funny to me. That said, I did enjoy this match. These guys are really good together.
Yeah, they are.
Juice, I thought, was super entertaining in this one.
Mm-hmm.
I do feel that I have to ask you how do you feel about Jay White's pajama band pajama pants and cowboy boots?
I look, Jay White usually can do no wrong. I thought that I mean, cowboy boots, I understand because it's a chain match, okay? I get that.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The pajama pant combo. Well, but that being said, it is still better than Juice's old puffy shorts. I will take. Jay White's pajama pants over those weird brown fuzzy puffy shorts that Juice was wearing until Jay got back, so. Yeah, but yeah, weird, weird get up, but okay.
Yep. Yep. I just I just felt I should ask.
I appreciate it.
Yeah. This I think was the first or second time that I noted they got the camera angle wrong when I believe Juice was the one chained to Clark Connors, if I recall correctly. When Juice pulls him off The I believe he was up on the ring post. He pulls him off and he hits the steps. We didn't see it. We heard it, but we
Mm-hmm. Right, yeah.
Didn't see it. I would have liked a camera angle of that. That felt like a big spot and we didn't see it.
As you're telling me that, I'm like, wait, I don't I didn't see that. I was like, what are you talking about?
Because you didn't see it. You'd never saw it. You just all of a sudden because they're they're on the hard camera and it's the shot that we're all used to where they're pulled back more, right? So
Mm-hmm.
They're on the hard cam shooting this way. But your eyes then naturally go to what's happening in the in the middle of the ring, and that's Jay White and David Finley doing whatever they were doing. I imagine if I go back and look, you'll see Connors go flying. But what happens is Because I'm looking at these two guys, all of a sudden I hear thwack and I go, What was that? And luckily commentary said what it was, but probably should have gotten an angle of that. That's a bummer that they didn't get it.
Probably. Yep, probably.
What did you think about the Death Riders getting involved post match? Or maybe it wasn't post match, but just getting involved in general. Okay.
Again, I it wa it No, it was it was afterwards and I wrote down Death Riders attack Juice and Jay White. Gunn Club clears them out. Story C Death Riders continue to help the dogs, but that continues to be unclear. I don't understand it.
Mm-hmm. I don't either.
I know they have been talking about how they kind of work together on certain things. I don't know if they're doing after school projects together. I don't know if the dogs are doing push-ups with the Death Riders outside. I don't know what's happening with them.
It might be that. It's probably that. Because if you do push ups with him then your besties for life, I guess. I don't know.
But it d it still doesn't make a ton of sense to me. And
So the I agree with you. The only extremely tenuous connection here is Gabe Kidd, right? Because who's
Who's not even here now?
Who's not even there? Yeah. Because he was running around with the Death Riders, kinda, but wasn't
Yeah.
Really in the group. It was just the mercenary. And then he's in the
Mm-hmm.
Dogs. And then all of a sudden they're no, no, no. Gabe Kidd a death writer, but we've not we have yet to see him with the group, like officially part of the group. So it's a Weak ass connection at best.
Yes, he is in the Death Riders version of New World Order Japan.
Yes. My god, yes. That is exactly yes, nailed it. Good job.
Because that's the only time he's been referred to as a member of the Death Rider.
Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't love it. I didn't get it. It's confusing.
Yeah, I don't know.
And I noted here again I had to ask, are the Death Riders heels? Which would be made clear later, but at that point was still not clear. So
Mm-hmm.
Anywho.
I did make a comment, earlier during the Bucks Deathspray match, the thing, and again, I find this super weird. I said weirdly, Tony says Mox does the right thing by attacking Nick. And so you've got it's so weird to hear Tony say weird positive things about Moxley.
Yeah.
So how are we supposed to feel about them?
Yeah. And it had at to this point in the night it had not been cleared up. So
Nope.
Then Renee with Ospreay and Mox. And
Mm-hmm.
Once again, this was another one of those t moments where I went, There's foreshadowing here. And my thought was we're either getting this is what I put, we're either getting the Ospreay Moxley split or I'm guessing this is I'm just reading word for word. Or I'm guessing Mox gets involved and tries to beat up Omega tonight.
Mm. Yeah, I
I'm gonna pat myself on the back a little bit for that one.
You should. You should. That was clearly what this whole this whole interview was meant to do was to set
Mm-hmm.
Up the drama at the end with this trio. And I kind of was left with the same feeling that I was left with the feeling that Will is either gonna gonna go full on heel and finally
Which is what I thought.
Finally pull the trigger on Kenny or we were going to see the implosion of Deathspray and either Ospreay was gonna wail on Moxley or Moxley was gonna wail on Ospreay. So that was my two choices at that point.
Yeah. At this point I was yeah. At this point I was still leaning towards Ospreay's gonna go heal.
Mm. Yeah.
And with the way the Death Riders had just acted and would act, I was thinking it's a bullet club thing, right? Like he's gonna turn on the leader and become the new leader, right? It's
Right. Mm-hmm.
They're doing the bullet club. So at that point, this is what I'm thinking. We would see it play out. Okay.
But again, kudos to them for the storytelling because it has
Yeah.
Us guessing a lot.
Yeah. This story is very good.
Mm-hmm.
No, no, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's very good. There's some others that
Yep. Yeah.
But this one was very good. And from that we go to very bad.
Yeah, this one, apparently luckily I didn't get to see ninety percent of it. I just kind of went click, click, click. That's cool. Click click click. That
Yeah.
Click click click. She won.
Dude, it makes me sad. It legitimately makes me sad. So Maya World and Shida for the TBS title. I will give them this. The ending surprised me. I did not think they were gonna switch the belt to Maya World. I'm glad they did.
I didn't either. Yeah, I didn't either.
I'm very glad that they did, but the build up to it, well, I mean, so this was another one that I had marked as could have been an email, right? This didn't have to be on the pay-per-view. And again, it goes too long. And so you would have saved us, by my count, I think I've already saved us about an hour. With the matches that could have been in email or could have been on Dynamite.
Probably yeah.
It makes me sad that this wasn't good. And I have to lay the blame for this actually primarily on Shida.
Okay.
I don't think that she like since she came back, they haven't fleshed out the character. We know she's a heel, but I am not really sure why. And I'm not really sure that she is. She's just kind of cocky and weird. I didn't think that Shida was great in this tonight. Like I didn't think she was very good. I didn't think she looked very good. She needed to help Maya World along. And I don't think that she did it. Because I don't think Maya World is bad. But like at one point in the match, I was sitting there thinking, you know, I'm glad that they put Maya World in this spot because in my mind, the parallel is Kevin Knight. I'm going, this is a good spot for you. It gives you a taste of. The spotlight on the pay-per-view, you're gonna learn some stuff. And in a year or two, you're gonna be in this, right? Like you're
What?
Gonna legitimately be a challenger, but you aren't right now. That's what I'm thinking. Okay.
Yes.
So I'll give them credit on the finish. You got
Mm-hmm.
Me. I didn't think you were gonna put the belt on her. I'm glad that you did. I legitimately am. I hope we do something cool with Maya World here. But she's gotta be in the ring with somebody that can make her look like a star. And Shida did not do that tonight.
That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. Mm-hmm.
She just didn't do it. You know, this is another one. There's there's really no story headed into it. There's really no heat headed into it. And then they put on a match that is, you know, and part of it is the bar that AEW as a whole sets.
True, absolutely. They put it up high.
But you put this, you know, and this isn't their best pay-per-view, you
No.
Know, which is not to say it's a bad pay-per-view, but this wasn't their best by any stretch. But again, that bar is high, right? And when
Mm. Yes it is, yeah.
You're out here preaching this is where the best wrestle and you're on a pay-per-view, you gotta bring your A game. And I just don't think they did tonight. And it makes me sad. It really makes me sad. It went too long.
I don't think they brought their A game in do you mean just these two or d the entirety of the show?
Well, I think both are true. I'm specifically this match, they didn't I they
Okay. Okay, that's right. Sorry.
Didn't bring their best. Shida didn't bring her best. And this is the same woman that you got to remember kind of carried the women's division in 2020. You know, she and Britt Baker,
Mm-hmm. Yeah, early on she was there. Yep.
Yeah, really carried the women's division. And I don't know what it's been since she came back. Something's not right. The timing's not there. She hasn't really looked good since she came back, from what I've seen.
That's fair. That's fair. I really liked the story of Maya getting the title
I agree.
Because I think it's it was A, it was a surprise. B, of course it's a feel-good story. But that's also part of my concern is you put the title on Maya, it's this great feel-good moment. I just don't
Where do you go now?
Feel I just don't feel she's ready to hold this belt. You have no one really set up. The title contention is murky at best in any of the women's title belts. This
Mm-hmm.
One in particular, because there wasn't much, like you said, there wasn't much buildup going into this. And don't get me wrong, I'm super happy Maya has the belt. I think it's again,
I am too.
I think it's a great story. But to me, it's like, okay. Is that the end of this story? Do we have more for this? What are we gonna do? And I and I have this bad sinking feeling. Maya World, when she gets her, she might win a title defense. I don't think she's holding that title very long. And then and then she's gonna be gone. That's my secret.
Yeah. I agree with you. And that's part of what makes me sad about the whole thing. The finish was very good. I mean,
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm thrilled for Maya World. I get why they did it. I'm not trying to take anything away from her here. And I know
Hello?
That it sounds like it, and that sucks. Like it's like I said in the heat check. I wanted to put this, I wanted it, I wanna believe it's better than it is. I wanted it to be in my midsection, but it's just not very good.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't think it's you know, I don't think it's Maya World's fault. I don't know I'm laying a lot of the blame on Shida because I expect better from her. I don't
Mm-hmm.
Know, man. Sometimes you put two people in the ring, you think it's gonna be good and it just isn't. I don't know. It happens.
Yeah. And again, people have off nights and maybe this wasn't maybe this was an off night for Shida. Again,
Yeah.
We're not trying to disrespect her abilities in the ring. I think for me the biggest flaw she has coming back is an undefined character. But yeah. So there you go.
Yep. Yep. And I'm with you of I don't know where we go from here with Maya World because I think they'll probably have her defend it and win once, maybe twice, but it's not gonna be against big names. And the first time she gets in the ring with a big name, probably it All In. I gotta believe she's gonna drop it.
I do too.
I may be wrong, but we'll see. The what what sucks the most to me about this is the person That Maya World needs to be in the ring with to really like really slingshot her forward, really slingshot her to the moon with the TBS championship is Toni Storm. Because Toni Storm would make her look like a million dollars, but Tony's not there right now. Mercedes is the other one. So I have three people
I thought you were gonna say Mercedes Moné is what I thought you were gonna say. She's the only one Yeah, right, yeah.
In mind that she needs to be in the ring with. Toni Storm's number one, but Tony's not available right now because Tony would make her look like a million bucks, right? Mercedes Moné is number two. But you can't put her in the ring of Mercedes right now. The third one is one who might be on her way, but it's gonna be a while. And it's Bailey. Bailey would pull a really good match out of her. I really believe that. Bailey is, I think, wildly underrated. I think she's on her way.
When when one of the three women when one of the three women aren't even in the company yet. Wow. Wow.
Yeah. I think Bailey is on her way, but the problem is if you debut Bailey in a match against Maya World for the title, you have to switch that belt, I think.
It makes all the sense in the world to
Yeah.
Do that if that happens. So
Yeah. So I don't know. But those are the three that are in my mind that if you put her, if you put Maya World in the ring with one of them, they're gonna really, they're gonna help her. They're gonna make
And so.
Her better. They're gonna help her. I'm not saying there aren't other people on the roster that can do that. There probably are, but
Right.
It goes to the bigger issue that we've been talking about for a while of the women's division is still a little bit of a mess. You're relying
Mm-hmm. I mean
On a lot of people who aren't quite ready yet.
Yeah. The other person I would put into that mix would be Athena. I think Athena.
Good call.
Because they have had a re they've had really good match like when Maya beat her the first time.
Yep. Yep.
They did a they had a really good match. And so it's tough to compare that match to this match tonight
Yeah.
And know what you can what Maya can look like and what that championship range should look like. So,
Yeah.
You know, and this is gonna sound like sound weird. It might have made more sense. To shift Maya World into becoming the ROH Women's Champion over Athena because
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
A, there's more, A, there's more built-in storyline there just because they used to train and run together. And B, you have Athena calling herself the Forever World champion. And she's held that title for a long, long, long, long, long time. So
Yeah.
It may have made more sense from a longevity process with the story. For Maya World, because now you've elevated Maya World. You have her with a world title. Sure, it's the ROH title, but that gives her some credibility. She can be on ROH. She can continue to get her chops. And then you can bring her in, and then she can challenge for the TNT
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Or the TBS title and look really great. And it's no longer just a feel-good story, which
Yeah.
We all like them, but unfortunately, I have this sinking suspicion that's all this is built on is that feel-good moment. From a tra you know, coming
Yeah, I
Out of a tragedy.
Yeah, and on her birthday too. I don't know if you might have fast forwarded past that, but yeah. It is, it's awesome. I yeah.
Yeah. Yep. I did get that one detail and I was like, that's great. And again, one. Perfect.
I agree with you. I agree. Athena makes a lot of sense. They need to put her in the ring again with Athena to make her I forgot about Athena because unfortunately being on ROH, I forget that she's in the company. But yeah, you're
She's not online. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. That's a good call right there. I mean big pop for the win, which is good, but it went too long and the crowd is really quiet through a lot of the match, which kind of tells you everything. So now I'm sad.
Yeah. Just like our analysis of it.
Yeah. That is all accurate. Yep. This'll speed us up. The Demand cut a fairly short promo, basically calling their shot for the trios championship. I thought that was gonna be the match on the pay-per-view. I don't know why it wasn't, but all right, whatever. I'm just glad they're doing
Mm-hmm. But hey,
Some with the trios titles.
Thank you. That's exactly what I was gonna say. This was worth being on the pay-per-view in order to get the trio's titles onto Dynamite. So thank you,
Yep.
Man, for making that happen.
Yep. Then our next this could have been an email, Cope and Cage versus Claudio and PAC.
I didn't think I would agree with you on this match, but I do. With it could have been an email.
Yep. It this could have been again, you put this on Dynamite, banger. You know,
Mm-hmm.
You put it on Dynamite, I'm completely fine with it. Because aga what this felt like to me, and I think I mentioned this on Wednesday. This felt to me like, hey, we got to get Cage and Cope on the pay-per-view. We don't want to put them against the Bucks yet, because we're saving that for All In. FTR is taking time off. Claudio
Yep. Mm-hmm.
PAC, here you go. Logically, this should have been a spot for Ospreay and Moxley.
Yes.
Because you've been building them as a team. They had wins.
Mm-hmm.
That would have made more sense here. But no, we throw Claudio and PAC in. And not only do we throw Claudio and PAC in, we have the champions call them out, which I it's another one of those things that I don't like. Unless you're telling a story of I'm gonna antagonize the hell out of you until you give me what I want. It makes
Right.
No sense for the champion to call them out.
Because their excuse was, look, we know you're gonna try anyway, so we're just gonna get it over with, and we're gonna be the ones calling it. Okay. But
Yeah, it's okay. Yeah.
But
So you've got virtually no story here. What story you do have
We first.
Isn't good. At no point,
Yeah, it's pretty weak.
And again, this comes into play with the shadow of All In covering this whole show, at no point did I think Pac and Claudio and Claudio were gonna win. I at no
No. Nope.
Point did I think that.
Not at all. As a matter of fact, I just wrote down solid match. And I have story beat. Question mark. They're a great team. Question mark.
We knew that.
And so the only other story beat is the Bucks are gonna take them on it All In, which I think you and I have said was gonna happen for the last two and a half, three
Yeah.
Weeks now. So
We've we've been saying that for months. We've been we you know, once they
So no, you know.
Took it off of FTR, we've been saying they're building to them in the box.
So no real n no real storyline going in, same storyline coming out. I didn't think I was gonna agree that this match could have been an email, but it definitely could have. 100%.
I mean, you put it on a Dynamite and I'm like, all right, cool. You know, because I don't have any problem with you slapping random matches together on Dynamite. I don't. I'm fine with that. But the pay-per-view in my mind is pay-per-views function for one of two things. They're either going to further a story well, one of three. They're either gonna further a storyline, end a storyline, or start a storyline.
Yes.
This does none of those.
No, this pay-per-view was, Hey, we can get a pay-per-view in Canada and up our
Mm-hmm.
Buy rates and make our Canadian wrestlers look good.
Well, and I mean I'll give the pay-per-view as a whole this, it did further some story, but this match in particular does not check any of those boxes because they're not running this back, nor should they, you know. Like
No. Nope, they should not.
I said, this would have been great on a Dynamite. I would have preferred the Young Bucks and Claudio and PAC and Winners the number one contender.
Ye okay, see now that makes sense. That makes all that makes way more sense than what we got.
Yeah, I probably would still say that should have been on Dynamite, but at least then, like it makes some sense. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So okay, Cope and Cage versus the Young Bucks at All In is now official. Thank you for finally making that official. I'm calling it now. If the Bucks win, and I think they might, the New Day comes out. The New Day's going to debut in London.
Interesting. I didn't even think of that and I now that you've said it, if it doesn't happen I'm gonna be disappointed.
I am too, and I don't know that the timing works on that, but I think it does with the non-competes and stuff. I think it works. So
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm calling it now.
I love it. Love it.
And then Yeah and then
You know what I'm not calling? This next match, great. Not doing that. Now don't don't get me wrong. Okay? Painmaker versus Psycho Killer. Jericho versus Ciampa.
Yeah. Yeah.
This match, on the whole, was probably their best one so far in this
Mm-hmm.
Poorly thought out feud.
Yes.
This storyline should have was a pamphlet, maybe a post-it, and it
Mm-hmm.
Turned into a novella, and it shouldn't have. Though that being said, even though this was their best match, it A, way too long. B,
God.
Why are we doing so many comedy bits when then you take sandpaper to his skull the way you win is by almost drilling a hole in his skull with a drill? What? What? No,
Yeah, going for a lobotomy. Yeah. The
No.
I mean, I agree with all of that. For me, it lost a lot of its mojo right out of the gate. Because I'll give Ciampa a lot of credit. His entrance, I was like, okay, he's selling it. He's this is serious. You know, he's he's coming for a fight. I'm like, okay, you have my attention. And then Jericho. Comes out in the painmaker thing, which I which is always goofy, but I knew it was going to be goofy. It's not nearly as badass as I think he thinks it is, but whatever. But then he couldn't get in the ring without losing his hat. Did you catch that? He stumped,
I missed that part. No.
He had to catch the hat and try and put it back out. He's trying to put it back on. I'm like, hey man, if you're gonna wear a hat to the ring, maybe take like, I don't know, a minute or two and go watch just one old Undertaker entrance and see how he did it. Just a thought. Just a thought.
Yeah. You hold it on your head and then you duck under the Yeah, come on, man.
That's all it is. Yeah. But he knocks his hat off his head. So that kind of took me out of it. And then you get into it, it's exactly what you said. This is supposed to be, we're both crazy and we're gonna inflict pain on each other. And
Mm.
This is supposed to be like two jokers going at it, right? And I don't mean jokers like like ha ha. I mean like the Batman
No, you B Batman jokes, yeah.
Villain. Yeah.
Yeah.
And instead, we're getting these weird ass comedy spots like first of all, Tommaso Ciampa, who the hell puts the helmet on before the hockey sweater?
Okay.
That's just that's just dumb. And in the other thing, that whole sequence was when I went, I'm done with this match, because he goes from that. And look, I'm a hockey fan, I know the rivalry, I get what he was doing. But he goes from that to then you hit your finisher on a stuffed animal or you know, stuffed mascot, a toy, and then you go for the cover on the toy, and you're the psycho killer.
Yeah.
You're the guy who's like, I hate Jericho so much that I have to end him, and you take time out to fight a toy?
That's what I mean. I mean that makes sense in a in a Orange Cassidy match.
Sure. Sure.
In this one? No. No.
Yeah. Yeah. Once that happened I went done. Done. And I mean like I would glance up, but I was on my phone for a lot of that match, just like
Mm-hmm.
Zombie scrolling. I saw, you know, the attempted lobotomy and all that and w whatever. Whatever.
And again, that so I don't understand the internal logic of this match because I don't think it had much, I think I know a little bit about having watched wrestling for a long, long, long, long, long time. You
Yeah.
Can't go from Ciampa pinning a stuffed animal to Jericho attempting to drill a new hole in his skull.
Mm-hmm.
And I guess Ciampa tapped because they just Ring the bell.
That's what I said too. I wrote down what the hell was that finish? Did he tap? And I went and looked it up online. And the way that they listed it is that he just is that he yelled, I quit. That he basically said, I quit to the ref. I didn't hear it,
All right. I didn't hear it.
But I don't know.
Watching in the replay, at one point he's like flapping his arm and
Mm-hmm.
Maybe hitting Jericho, but I'm sorry if you're coming at me with a drill. I'm probably gonna flap more than my arm. I'm probably gonna flap anything that will.
Probably. Yeah, probably. So I don't know. It was bad. Like I can't even say that this match should have been an email. This match probably just shouldn't have happened, but here we are.
We talked about that this should the blow up should have been two matches ago.
Yeah. It should have been a Beach Break. Yeah. It sh that should have been it.
The first indication that this match was gonna be off. Jericho brings Sand to the ring so that he can
Yeah.
Have a Beach Break throwback.
Yeah.
No thanks. No man. You didn't need that.
I would have been better with him doing that and them saying like you know, it's a callback to Mr. Fuji. I
But yeah he would have needed salt then but
I know, but
But it's just and then having him come over at the end of the match and just be weird with the green dye in his mouth I'm like my okay so are you gonna what are you gonna fight Leo Rush now is that what you're gonna do?
Well yeah that was the thing too. Well that was the thing too, like he missed he does the great Muda Mist and Ciampa like barely sells it. What it
Yeah.
What the hell were we doing here?
I mean look, he already took sand to the face. You think Mist is gonna be other him at this point? Come on.
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. Look, he had hit his finisher on a toy, like, yeah.
Yeah, he thought he had won.
Bad. All right. Yeah. I
Speaking of bad, let's move on to the Mick Foley Divine Dominion bit, which
I fully understand why you thought this was bad. The promo is like whatever, I guess. Like, I agree with you that it really serves no purpose. And Mick barking was extremely weird. The reason that I didn't put it on the bad is because when Mick at the end says this is going nowhere, I laughed. And I went, All right, okay. I was like, at least
That's fair. That's fair.
He's self aware enough to go. This is terrible. And I and it what bothered me about it, and I think this is what you were getting at, is the reason it's so long is they're covering for them to clean up the ring after the debacle that we had just watched.
Mm, mm-hmm.
And I'm like, Okay. But I don't know, maybe like have a video package for All In and maybe have like the video package for Andrade and Mark Davis be just a touch longer and
Mm-hmm.
You know, maybe have it be a pre recorded video of Divine Dominion going, brawling birds, you've been running your mouths, but you haven't actually done anything yet. You know what I mean? Like there was a better way to attack that than whatever
Yeah.
The hell that was.
It's okay to show them cleaning the ring for a little bit. Because
It is. Yeah.
Then we know what's going you know, it that's fine. And you're right. The Divine Dominion thing should have been pre recorded. And they
Mm-hmm.
Should have been saying, Are you sure you're gonna be a team long enough to challenge us? Because
Mm-hmm.
Seems like every time you get running you break up. So
Yeah.
There's so many ways you could have done this better. And for just to introduce the fact that they're probably gonna take on the birds at All In and I did they make that official? I don't know. They're gonna
I don't think they made it official, but they're gonna
Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately for Divine Dominion they'll probably be on the Buy-In, which is a shame, but whatever.
They might put on the actual card just because they're two Brits. Yeah.
Yeah, it's 'cause of the birds, they're right. Mm-hmm.
Which by the way means Divine Dominion probably gonna lose.
I c I can't even talk to you about this right now.
That's fair. That's fair. But yeah, this was rough. And I would have
Mm-hmm.
Preferred them just putting a camera in commentary's face and them talking about, you know, hey, tickets are on sale for the next, you know, 10 dynamites and collisions. Here's where we're gonna be. Hey, go
Yeah.
To shopaew. Com. They haven't done one of those promos in forever. Like
No.
I any of that would have been better.
Yeah, you've got plenty of matches that you could still run down that we can look forward to. There's plenty of that to go around, but instead we get
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Divine Dominion Okay. Okay. Andrade and Mark Davis. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Let's move on to that. Because this was really good. I really enjoyed this. Andrade just continues to be so good since he came back to AEW.
Yeah. I've said it before and I will continue to say it. This is my favorite version of Andrade. And I think
Yeah.
He's looked better in this run in AEW than he has. And again, I this is with a mild caveat. I did not get a lot of his NXT work, but this is my
You know what?
This is my favorite version of him, period.
I did watch a decent amount of his NXT stuff and it was good. It wasn't in my opinion, it wasn't this good. Like I think he has just found something. I don't know what it is, but I think he's just found something where it's really firing on all cylinders for him right now.
This latest run is the first time I felt like he's lived up to all the hype that I've heard about Andrade. And now I'm
Yep. Yep.
He is on fire right now, and I'm super happy
Mm-hmm.
For him. And I was so glad he was gonna win. And it's like at one point I didn't make the note, but I was like, okay. He got he because commentary said Andrade has yet to win a title. Singles title in AEW,
Yeah.
I'm like, okay, well he's winning tonight.
Yeah. And I going in, I thought he was gonna win. I think the best
Same. And he should have.
Yeah, yeah. I think the best thing they can do, put that leave that belt on him for like minimum three months. Minimum. To make it matter. Yeah.
At least. Yeah. Didn't we talk about this? How he can make he can be the guy to take that belt and keep it and make
Yes. He can make it matter. Yep.
It matter and hold it. But he's gotta hold it long. He's gotta hold that bitch for like a year and defend it a lot and win all the time.
You I yeah, I yeah. I think they gotta throw the whole Don Callis Family at him, like one by one. They gotta
Yes. Yes.
Keep coming and he's gotta keep beating for that belt. And
I mean, my God, if they do that, it th they could take that for eight months almost. My god.
They could. They could. So I think he needs to hold it for a while. I also agree with Taz. Velcro pants, my guy.
Mm-hmm.
Velcro pants.
What was all the nervous I
The line where he said he's having a match between his boots and his pants right now was really funny. It was really, really funny.
And then Excalibur going. That's why you're the best color guy in the biz.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, really, really good match though. Really good match.
That was that was great. That was really good. Mm-hmm.
Then Speedball did a fairly quick promo. I find it interesting that he called his shot for the international title in Mexico, that we're not doing it at Wembley. That's interesting to me.
I agree. And I liked his take on it because it's international. I thought, well, clearly you're gonna say Wembley, but it's like, well, okay. And whatever. I
Yeah.
Thought this was a really good promo, possibly his best promo he's done in AEW. It kept
Mm-hmm.
It short. He made way more sense than he's had in a long time. I'm super glad he's gonna get a shot at the title, and I hope. I think he should win it.
I do too. I think they should switch it. I don't know if they will, but I think they should.
I 100% think they should. Mm-hmm.
Yep. We'll see what happens. But I think the other part of it too is you do need to put something semi marquee on Grand Slam Mexico. So I get that's part of it, but
Yep. Weird that it's speedball and not, I don't know, a plethora of the Mexican wrestlers that they currently have. But we'll hear about that in a little bit.
I'm Yeah. Then it was Thekla and Willow for the women's title. And I thought the match was pretty good. I'm not gonna tell you it's the best one on the card, but I thought was pretty good.
Mm mm. It was really good. I enjoyed it a lot.
Yeah. I had a suspicion they were gonna switch the belt because I think Willow and Mercedes makes more sense than Thekla and Mercedes.
Yes, it does.
I'm just a l and I don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that they put it on Willow. I think it's the right move. Making her the first Grand Slam champion for the women is very smart. Triple crown, whatever. I was just a little bit bummed because I felt like we finally hit our stride with Thekla, and now I don't know
Yeah.
What you're gonna do with her.
Yeah, that's that bittersweet moment for me in this match
Yeah.
Too, because I'm super happy that it's Willow who is like you said, she is the first Grand Slam winner in AEW's women's division and absolutely deserved. And I think she's the person to carry that flag for the time being. But man, I'm gonna miss Thekla being the champ because she was, like you said. Finally, I think we've gotten her into her stride. She's looking the way she should look. She's sounding the way she should sound. She's performing extremely well in the ring. She's just off kilter on the mic, which I love.
Mm-hmm.
Ugh, and now she's part of the startup trios champions, I guess, so
I guess. I like I said, I don't know what they're gonna do with her now.
No, I don't either.
And that bums me out. The other thing that bums me a little bit is they're not gonna make Willow just a transitional champion, are they? I mean, Mercedes is
I mean
Looming.
Yeah, 100%. It is really hard to look at that and go, you've got Mercedes Moné, not the world champion, taking on Willow Nightingale in London at one of the biggest pay-per-views they're gonna do and not have Mercedes win.
Yeah.
I mean, don't get
Yeah.
Me wrong, winning the winning the Owen was really good. The only two time person to win it back
Mm-hmm.
To back. That's not the world title. And this is Mercedes Moné. So
Nope. Yep. And they made a point tonight to say she's never held it and she hasn't. It's like the one belt she's never held.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. So unfortunately
I don't know. We'll see.
I think I think we are gonna see Willow be a transitional champion.
Yeah. That sucks.
It does suck.
At that point, if that's how it's gonna go, if she's only gonna hold it for a month, I would have preferred they just keep it on Thekla. But we'll see.
And then and then have her hit the Grand Slam moment by beating Mercedes again. But
Mm-hmm.
Let that build for a while.
Yep. I'll tie this all back when we wrap up here in just a minute. 'cause then it was Kenny Omega and Kevin Knight for the world title and this is part of where I'm going with it. But look, this is probably the match of the night. They were wow, they were good. This is match
Yeah. I
Of the night.
I 100% believe that because like I said, Kevin Knight looks so good in this match. And
He did.
It's you talk about people that take that next step in momentum and performance or whatever. I don't know what it was,
Mm-hmm.
But I honestly feel like that tonight was Kevin Knight's night to make
Yes.
That next step and really kind of grab that brass ring and go, Look, I can be a world champion. And it was he gonna beat Kenny Omega tonight? No. Would I've been, would I have been completely disappointed if he did win and he was going to be the champ for a while? No. I mean, it messes up plans for All In and all that. But in any other given moment, I'd be like, okay, I can now believe you, Kevin Knight. So, like I said, in a year or two, like we were talking about when Maya World and Kyle Fletcher, back when Kyle.
With Maya World, yeah. Yep.
Was really on a tear and we're like, that guy's gonna
Yep.
Have the world title around his waist waist in a couple of years. That's how I feel about Kevin Knight tonight because of this match. And his performance I thought was through the roof tonight. And
Mm-hmm.
He looked so good. He I don't know if he's ever fired on all cylinders like this before, but he was amazing in this match.
And he really I felt like this was the first time he really wrestled like a heel. Because
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The heel turn has fallen a little bit flat for me. Not a lot, just a little bit flat for me.
Mm-hmm.
And tonight really helped it. So if they keep him heel, and I think they should, this
Yes, they should.
Helped it a lot. He was great. He was absolutely great. He's gonna be world champion someday. He's not there yet, but he will be, and he will be soon, I think.
Okay.
When I say soon I mean year, year and a half, you know.
Yeah, I'll give you that. Yeah, I'll give you two at the most. But yeah, I think he should be
Yeah.
World champ.
If the idea was to put him in this match to help show, hey, this guy is gonna be a main eventer, then mission accomplished. And I do think that
Absolutely.
Was the point. I genuinely do. Because I don't think
I do too.
Any of us went into it thinking he was gonna win, which is again
Mm mm. Nope.
The bigger issue with redemption as a whole. I've been thinking about this a lot all week. Do you remember when WWE had put like fast lane in between the rumble and mania, and they had
Mm. Yeah.
To figure out a reason to get you to buy it? And so they were like, the number one contendership is on the line. No, it's not. You're not gonna have the person that won the Royal Rumble then turn around and lose.
Right, yeah.
But it was like the best they could come up with, you know? Until they figured out, here's what we'll do. The rumble winner challenges one champion, and now that we have two world champions, and we'll put elimination chamber in between them, and the winner of that gets the other champion, and now it matters. Now you got now, I got a reason to watch it, right? When
Right. Mm-hmm.
You smack redemption in between, I mean again, I think you have to throw forbidden door out because forbidden door is its own thing, right?
Right. Yeah. It yeah.
When you put redemption in between double or nothing and All In. Those major stories, the world championship, the tag team championship. I didn't think that they were in danger for even a second.
No.
And that's the problem with it, is All In looms so large over this show. And because You're doing some long-term storytelling, which is which is great. There's nothing wrong with that. But like, we know Ospreay's the number one contender, and it's pretty obvious that the story is him and Omega, not him and Kevin Knight. You know? So, like, either they need to just not do it, just not put a pay-per-view the month before All In, or they've got
Okay.
To figure out a different way. They've got to figure out a different hook to it. Because Putting the world title on the line that close to your biggest show and the and the champion is not defending against the actual number one contender. I don't like there's not a lot of like great. I look, it was a great match. It was a great match. But at no point did I think Kevin Knight was going to win. Now you do this
No. This it
Match, you know, September, whatever the first Wednesday is in September coming off of All In, you would have had me. You
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Would have had me going, holy shit, he might win. You know. But tonight, no.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. This is this is the if you're gonna do a pay-per-view like this and you're gonna continue to do it, this is why I think what's so important is having those those B storylines be interesting so
Mm. Yep.
That you can have you can have those kind of run, you know, kind of lead the way on this pay-per-view so that you know, okay, we're not gonna see the world title, but the women's world title changed hands tonight. So build that story going into it and make sure those B-level storylines are effective so that we have that reason to watch this pay-per-view. Are we gonna get the biggest titles out there? Maybe one, not all of them, because we have All In coming in 30 days. So make those, you know, like I said, layer those stories, make sure we have some solid B-level stories going going on. That's why those other storylines are so important. So you can do a pay-per-view like this and we aren't gonna feel like, well, we kind of know what's gonna happen.
Yeah. And that's where I was kind of going with the women. If you had made that a bigger deal, right? If that had been a better story, that
Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Could have been your main event tonight. And imagine that. Imagine if that had some real, real heat on it
Mm-hmm.
And Willow wins that. Dude, the roof would have come off the place, you know. And as a as it was, it almost did, you know.
Absolutely. You put some heat you put Yeah. You put heat on that, you put heat on the Shida Maya World match.
Mm-hmm.
Now you could have two back to back, you know, basically co-headlining matches with the women take because now you've succeeded on multiple levels. You've got given us stories that are worth watching and we're invested in and you've put time and effort into it. And you are elevating the women's division by giving us two solid women's title matches and here's a bonkersville idea. I don't know. Build a tag women's tag team title story and pay it off here. Or wait, have them make Mick Foley bark like a dog.
Yeah. No, I mean I agree with you on all that. And the other thing you could have done here as well is if you get some more heat on the tag titles. Right now that match matters more. And I'm not saying you switch it, but if you have heat on it, you have a real
Yeah.
Story going into it, that match matters. If you had a skosh more heat, like a little bit more story going into the international championship story, or that match, I should say, that could
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Have been your main event tonight.
Absolutely.
Andrade and Mark Davis could have been your main event tonight, even as it was. Because the story was
Yeah, absolutely.
Never Andrade and Mark Davis, it's Andrade and the Don Callis Family. That could have been your main event tonight as it was, right?
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep.
And I think that would have made some sense. And I'm not saying you don't put the world champion on the show, but I am saying maybe he just cuts a promo.
Mm-hmm.
I'm saying maybe there's a backstage something between him and Ospreay, right? Because again, you could have told every bit of the story that you told tonight on a Wednesday. You could have done it.
Mm-hmm. Or better yet, you could have taken every story beat tonight and played it out over the weeks between now and All In. And you didn't you didn't cram a bunch at us all at once. You continue that slow burn. You continue to show us layer after layer and you continue to keep us guessing because now the one match we haven't talked about kind of really draws the line in the sand of where we stand and there's still four weeks, five weeks to All In.
Exactly. Because now everything that happens after Kenny Omega and Kevin Knight, right? Where again there's attempted murder and Ospreay stops it and everybody's getting beat down and Kenny maybe with the soft heel turn there.
Here's what I found interesting was early on, I put it was shortly after the Snapdragon on the announce desk, which by the way, so good. I put
Mm-hmm. My god, yes.
Kenny is looking a bit crazed with saying he wants more. Like he was starting to like he was a different Kenny Omega in that ring tonight.
He started l about halfway through that match when he starts doing the come on, gimme more, gimme more. Yeah,
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about exactly.
I know it is. Yeah. That's when I started going, shit, I think the I think he might be the cleaner.
Yes, that's what I was thinking. Yep.
I started going I started going I'm like kind of looking around going Bullet Club is alive, y'all.
Yeah. Yeah.
Which is awesome. But like in let me put it this way. I think it makes a lot more sense to make Omega the heel because Will Ospreay is not gonna be a heel in London, period.
Mm-hmm. Nope.
I you could have him killing puppies on live TV between now and All In, and I still don't think he'd be the heel in London, you know.
No. No he wouldn't.
So it makes sense to have Kenny kind of morph back into the cleaner. I get it and I'm here for it. But my question is, and I think this is kind of what you were alluding to, but please correct me if I'm wrong. My question is okay, so now we have drawn a line in the sand. Will Ospreay is the face and he is on his own. He is out of the Death Riders.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Omega doesn't have his back anymore, and the Bucs are going with Omega.
Mm-hmm.
So right now Ospreay has no one.
Exactly.
What are we gonna do over these next couple weeks? Because now my only concern, and it's not a big concern, but my only concern with the story is the Death Rider aspect of it muddies the waters some, right? Because to me, I
Yes, it has.
Thought from here to All In, the story is Omega and Ospreay.
Mm-hmm.
And now I'm not sure it is. Now I think the story
No.
Is Omega, Ospreay, and Moxley.
Right. I mean
And I'm not entirely convinced we aren't gonna end up in a triple threat match here.
I think it's a mistake to do it at All In if we do the triple threat match. I don't think
I agree. I agree.
You're wrong it's entirely possible. But the story has always been about the trio between the three
Mm-hmm.
Of them. So I'm not mad that it is still that, but you what what does make me and again I agree with you. I'm here for the cleaner if Kenny Omega is coming back to that. I'm here for it. What I find interesting is the Bucks don't seem to be as here for it. Because they came out and was like, what? What's up? You know? He's like, look,
Mm. Yeah.
He thought about putting a bag over my head. Screw
So
Him.
Yeah, and I get that. And I get that there's distrust that they started sowing that seed on Wednesday. I mean, they'd been sowing it anyway, but you know, when they really got they've physically got into it on Wednesday. Like, I get it. I get it. Let me be clear.
Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
I just think the way you could have played this out is you could have had it go for the next five weeks or whatever it is between now and All In. Mox continues being in Ospreay's ear of you have to pull the trigger. It doesn't matter who's across from you. Because one of the things that I think they got across, but maybe not as explicitly as they might have liked is Mox is trying to teach Ospreay, you don't understand what it takes to be the AEW world champion. And I'm trying to tell you it doesn't matter who it is, you
Anything else?
Got to be willing to do whatever it takes. Why they didn't reference the multiple attempted murders of Bryan Danielson is beyond me. They needed to point that out. They needed to say, look at what I had to do to get it back. That guy was like my brother, and I tried to kill him, literally.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
They need but you so you could have had multiple weeks of him doing that and multiple weeks of Ospreay escalating the violence, little by little by little by little, right? Like doing things
Yeah.
He doesn't usually do. You could have been doing that all the way across, and you could have had Omega going, I don't know what you're doing, man. This isn't you, and it's the battle for Ospreay's soul along with the title, right? And you could have been doing all that. And then you get them in the ring it All In. And they are gonna have they look, they are gonna have the fucking match of the year. I'll be shocked if they don't, right? They're gonna tear it down. They're gonna go an hour and it's gonna be orgasmic when it's over. But you could have been doing that, and now we're at the crescendo of the match, and it's exactly like what we saw tonight of Ospreay's gotta make a choice and he can't do it. And now, you know. And maybe it costs him the title, or maybe he ultimately wins it. But then now Mox turns on him exactly. This is what you said. Mox is mad at him because you didn't do what I told you to do. So now I gotta do it or what, you know, and I kept telling
Mm-hmm. Yep.
You, you pull the trigger no matter who who's across from you, and I want that belt back. Like you dare you see this path, right? You see this is 10,
Absolutely you do. Yep.
12 Weeks start to finish of TV. And I feel like we took 10, 12 weeks of TV and went and smooshed it down
Yeah.
Into tonight.
Yeah. Again, there were so many story beats and so many story seeds throughout the Elite and the Death Riders matches that we could have not crammed all those into tonight. We could have parsed those out
Yeah.
Over the next several weeks, and we would have still have been just as satisfied satisfied with this pay-per-view and All In.
Yep. Yep.
Now we have to go man, what's what's happening Wednesday?
Yeah. And look, let me put it to you this way. I'm sitting here going, Wow, what is happening Wednesday? But I mean it in a good way. I mean it in a like, I am really curious to see what we're gonna do on Wednesday. Really curious. But with that said, Think of it this way. If they had put Moxley and Ospreay in that tag title match, which would have made more sense against Cope and Cage, right?
Yeah it would. Mm-hmm.
And Cope and Cage ultimately win, but like they hurt him. Like you took these two legends and Will Ospreay, who's the good guy, right? He's always been the goofy, fun, good guy who can go. Hurts them, hurts these legends in their home country. Dude, like if that's part of the building block of we don't know who Will Ospreay is anymore, he doesn't know who he is anymore, which is kind of what they were doing with him staring in the mirror and all that stuff.
Yeah.
You had multiple weeks of TV there, and I really feel like you smushed it into tonight. And if you remove that element from redemption, like you said, this is still a good show,
Mm-hmm.
And now you can space it out. Really curious to see where we go. Really curious about, I still think hangman's an X factor here because he's got history with everybody involved. I'm very I actually thought he was going to come out at some point tonight. I was fairly surprised he didn't, like in that post-match stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe he shows up on Wednesday to try and talk sense into Kenny. I don't know. I think he's an interesting X factor in it. I think Swerve is an interesting X factor in this because we don't know where he's gonna be. And I think MJF is an X factor in all this. And the reason I bring those three guys up, other than I seem to do it every week, is All In is the biggest show. And those are the three biggest guys.
Yep. I am gonna say something that you may not like.
Ooh.
I don't want to see Hangman get involved with this angle. I don't
I don't either, believe it or not.
I don't want to see Swerve get involved with this angle.
I don't either.
The only name that you mentioned, MJF, is the only one that makes sense. And while I'm intrigued by Hangman's tertiary involvement, I do not I would rather not see him show up than muddy the waters even more because While this is their best storyline, and don't get me wrong, I'm in I'm in on it. I think it's been I think that's the most thought they've put into to any of the storylines going forward at this point. And I'm happy on the whole with it. But they've done enough to be like one more element could break this and make it not good. And even if that
I agree.
Element is someone like Swerve or Hangman, I you really risk ruining This really compelling storyline. Have you taken enough time with it for you and me? No. No, they could have stretched this out, but I'm still intrigued by it. There is still room to move this story forward. So I'd much rather just have Hangman do something else. I would I'm surprised they haven't bothered to bring Hangman back to challenge for any of the titles after he made the semi-surprise return at Collision.
Mm-hmm.
And then we haven't seen him since. So I
Mm-hmm.
Mm that's that seems to be a habit that we like to do in AEW.
Yep.
If you're gonna have at All In, I better see him Wednesday.
Yeah. No, I agree with you on that and I don't want those guys to get directly involved in the storyline. I think that they can show up in a way of Because they're connected to everybody involved, they can show up again in sort of just a ancillary sort of almost NPC, right? Type of type
Yeah. Yeah.
Of character where I'm gonna give you just a little bit of advice if it's Will Ospreay, or I'm gonna try and talk some sense into Kenny Omega, or
Mm-hmm.
You know, I'm gonna stare down Jon Moxley because fuck that guy, you know, like like
Mm-hmm.
Whatever it is, you know, make and the reason that I specifically go to hangman as an X factor in it is The elite are still outnumbered by the Death Riders, right?
Yes. Yep.
So he could get involved in the elite side, but you've also got Ospreay, who, as we talked about, is out on an island by himself. That guy at some point's gonna need somebody to get his back. I could see that. I don't love it being a major part of the storyline, but if he helps clear the ring, I don't hate it, you know.
Yes. That's if that's where it comes, I'm okay with it. And if and if Swerve gets involved and just looks at Ospreay and is like, Mox is trying to tell you something and he's trying to teach you something.
Mm-hmm.
I don't think you're smart enough to learn it or whatever, because
Mm-hmm.
Swerve gets that idea. He understands that aspect. I don't want him see him be a Death Rider, but if he's gonna be involved, I can see him do that because I can't see him really having Ospreay's back, I can't see him having anyone's back in regard to this storyline. So he makes less sense for me. Hangman does make sense if it's like, look, you want to take out Claudio, great. You want to
Yeah.
Back up Kenny and stare down Marina or Mox, great. Do
PAC or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
That. Don't insert yourself too much farther than that.
Yeah, and here's the other w area where I think potentially he gets involved. It goes back to something you said of he listed every title, but he hasn't gone for any of them.
Mm-mm.
It's easy to forget, but Jon Moxley has one of those titles. And Jon Moxley right now does not have a date for All In.
No.
And because I think the worst thing in the world would be to insert him in the championship match. So please don't do that.
Mm-mm.
I think maybe hanger and mox for the continental title. I'd be okay with that.
If you have Hangman come at Mox on Wednesday and be like,
Mm-hmm.
Hey, bud, I want a title. I can't have the world title. What do you say you mean you dance? Perfect. Perfect. I'm in.
Yeah. We'll see. We'll
Mm-hmm.
See. So anyway, a lot on this show and yet also not a lot on this show, like we said at the beginning. It was a weird show.
Weird. You can tell 'cause we've been talking for an hour and forty minutes about it.
Yeah. It's a weird show. I wouldn't I would say it's a good show, but it was a weird show. And as AEW Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it's not like you said, it's not their best. It was good. But there was a there like i and I didn't think I would be so on board with your call of so many of these matches should have been an email, but you're not wrong. We take three of those
I mean
Matches out, we reduce the show by an at give us at least an hour. We didn't need to go
Yeah.
Five, dude. We did not need to go five.
I think if you took everything that I thought could have been on a Wednesday out, we cut an hour and a half off that show. I'm not I'm not kidding. I think we cut an hour and a half off it.
Yeah. I agree. I agree. And I and that I thought here's here's what is so weird to me, which again, good but weird with the buy-in. I thought, ooh, only one match, and then everyone gets introduced on the buy-in for the for the ladder match. I thought, okay, they figured out they don't need to cram so many matches into a pay-per-view. And we're gonna get a three hour pay-per-view. Didn't happen. Didn't happen.
Yeah. No, I they don't need to be five hours. They don't need to be four hours all the time. But I mean he
No, no. Mm mm.
Yeah. Yeah. I get it. On one hand, I get it. We're getting our money's worth and then some. I get that.
Yeah, we are.
But
Yeah. Dude, I'm tired.
Yeah. You can cut you can cut three matches off this show, put on Dynamite, and it makes Dynamite better and it makes this show better. But anyway. All right. So with that, it
Absolutely it does. Absolutely. Absolutely.
It will be speaking of Dynamite, it will be a very interesting one because we're gonna see, hopefully, we'll see the beginning of this next chapter of the world title story.
Mm-hmm.
Willow and Mercedes is gonna be interesting to me.
Yep.
What, if anything, are they going to do with Thekla will be interesting to me. Who do they line up for Maya World will be interesting to me.
Yes, absolutely.
So a lot of things here to watch for on Wednesday. It should be a very interesting one, which means you, if you have not, should subscribe so that you don't miss
Absolutely.
Us breaking it down and talking about cookie dough.
Subscribe, follow everywhere you can. Tell a friend, leave a
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A little bit of a slip, maybe.
Well, I think what that was is I've been talking for an hour or plus and I don't know if you noticed, but I finished my water before we actually even started recording, so gonna
What do you say we wrap up here?
Yeah, gonna go ahead and hit stop now.