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Industry leaders get real on the business of running a thriving studio in motion, production, or sound. Hosted by RevThink. © 2015–2024. All Rights Reserved.
Have you ever heard of a challenger brand? A challenger brand is a company or a product that is neither the market leader nor the niche brand, but it is instead one that aggressively pursues market share by challenging the status quo. These brands typically position themselves as alternatives to establish leadership in the industry by highlighting their unique qualities or innovative approaches or superior value propositions, which, of course, then attract a loyal customer base. And today on rev thinking, we're gonna dive into the story of a true challenger in our industry, Alannah Thompson. Alannah's journey from passionate dancer to visionary filmmaker entrepreneur is a testament to the power of challenging the status quo and leading with purpose.
Host Tim Thompson:You know, running a creative business is not an easy feat, and Atlanta shares these challenges by wearing mini hats and learning business skills that aren't always innate to creatives. She emphasizes the importance of community support in navigating these challenges. Much like challenger brands thrive on understanding and meeting the needs of its audience. But one of Alana's most remarkable achievements is her intentional effort to hire women led crews, or I should say her intentional effort to hire women only crews, providing opportunities and addressing gender inequality in the industry. This bold positioning challenges the traditional norms and highlights the value of diverse perspectives in storytelling.
Host Tim Thompson:And in today's episode, Atlanta and I delve into these topics and more, exploring the intricacies of leadership, purpose, and then making an impact as a woman entrepreneur in the film industry. I'm Tim Thompson, and this is rev thinking, where creative entrepreneurs get inspired and equipped to thrive in business, life, and career. Let's join my conversation with Alana Thompson.
Host Tim Thompson:Could you tell as a kid who you're gonna be? Like, the person you know today making those decisions and having that internal mental conversation, Is that the same voice you've always had?
Alana Tompson:It's funny that you should mention this because I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. And I was listening to a podcast purpose, and they were saying that your purpose is the thing that was there when you were a little child, the thing that you liked to do, the thing that brought you joy. And it made me really start to think about what was it that really lit me up as a child. And it was always storytelling because I was a dancer from the age of 5. Loved dancing, and the thing I loved about it is, like, using my body to create shapes and movements that told a story and affected an audience in a way and made them feel something.
Alana Tompson:And I did that my whole life, and I just loved the energy and the exchange between me and the audience. And I actually ended up doing a dance degree at university, and it was in the middle of my dance degree that I discovered photography and then film. And so I changed my major over to film and TV, and that's how I got into film.
Host Tim Thompson:But it's the expression. Right? You there was an expression when you're a dancer, this expression now that you can feel, that's the storytelling person inside of you?
Alana Tompson:Yeah. I had the realisation that it's the same thing. Now I'm just dancing to the camera. Oh. But it's the exact same process.
Alana Tompson:And that's how I feel when I'm behind the camera, when I've got my shoulder rig. It's part of me. I'm moving. I'm interacting with the subject. It is this beautiful intuitive dance.
Host Tim Thompson:That's amazing. What a great question. I didn't even know if there's gonna be such a great question.
Alana Tompson:It's been on my mind so much lately about purpose, and and I just you know, you have that click and you're like, oh, it has always been there.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. I personally had a drive of just knowing, like, no matter what, I was gonna be in Hollywood. I don't know. I can't as early as I can remember or as early as my mom can remember, there was just something I was gonna all I thought was this actor because that's all I could see. When your kid is the person in front of the camera.
Host Tim Thompson:So you wanted to be the person that you saw on TV, but be exposed to this industry and all its nuance and all this opportunity to contribute and to know actually whatever I wanted to do was way gone before I ever got to Hollywood anyway. That television or that film was didn't even exist anymore. It's been amazing to have a career in an industry you love and then to express this childlike desire. When I think of how people become natural leaders, it's just that they're following their purpose. And my belief is that everyone has a calling.
Host Tim Thompson:Like, they're meant for this time and this generation to do something very specific.
Alana Tompson:I agree.
Host Tim Thompson:And for to tap into it and find it, I have a feeling a lot of the maybe charisma that people see in you or can feel in you and wanna follow, in your way is because you're drawing that, because you're so confident of who you've always wanted to be, and then you're allowing yourself to be that person.
Alana Tompson:Thank you.
Host Tim Thompson:Do you feel like if you give yourself permission, do you ever feel a little bit like, I don't know, an imposter? Like, oh, why is everyone listening to me? Or do you feel like it just comes naturally?
Alana Tompson:Doesn't doesn't every creative feel like that? I feel like that's just part of being a creative. Imposter syndrome. I feel like it's embedded into all of us. I think particularly women as well.
Host Tim Thompson:Why is that? What makes it why do you say the that it's particularly women? Is there some other cultural element that makes that?
Alana Tompson:I have 2 young sons, 2 and a 4 year old. And you become very acutely aware of gender and the roles that they play and how they're enforced upon children from a very young age, even just in day care. The things that they come home and say to me make me go, wow. Like, where did you get that from? And it's just naturally there.
Alana Tompson:And there is this thing, if you look at the clothing for young children, you know, all the ones that the boys have is, like, be brave and, like, adventurer and all this kind of stuff. And the ones for the girls are, like, cute, happy. And it's just, like, from a very young age, reinforcing that men can be these brave adventurers and women are just kind of cute and happy and very passive. It's very, like, you know, active and then very passive, and so I think, subconsciously, that has to feed in to us as we grow up and affect the way that we see ourselves. And I notice in the industry all the time that the women are the ones that are undercharging, or all the time that the women are the ones that are undercharging, or when they go for a job, they're the first ones to say, well, I haven't really done that before.
Alana Tompson:You know, I'm not a 100% confident. Whereas I see the men that I know are saying, yep, no worries, I can do that, and not having any doubt in their abilities whatsoever. And for that reason, they get jobs and they move ahead. And I think that that naturally inbuilt sense of doubt in women does affect us. I could be totally wrong.
Alana Tompson:That's just what I've seen through my kids. And it's like, wow. It's it's just really obvious from a young age.
Host Tim Thompson:I maybe, fortunately or unfortunately, have the same family path as you. I have 5 boys, like, no girls. Woah. So I only have one gender experience also in raising. And, of course, I'm the father instead of mother too, so I have a different perspective.
Host Tim Thompson:But my wife came from only sisters. And so she had to come to terms with the difference of raising sons instead of, you know, knowing who she was or raising daughters. One thing that she'll point out is that there was more sound effects in our house than ever in the house that she grew up in. Yes. But there are way more words in her house than in our in our house because my boys don't use words to express things.
Host Tim Thompson:They use sound effects. So I always think that's, like, a funny, like and I grew up with only brothers, so I'd say, like, that's that feels natural to me. But there is something interesting about I, you know, I think that we're challenged often in the roles that we have because we also can't change them. Like, it's not necessarily if that's the result of the society, then who we become as leaders has that embedded in us. So we have to be making other choices.
Host Tim Thompson:I would say, like, I know men who aren't natural leaders. Right? And you probably know women who are not natural leaders and then women who are and men who are not. So there is something maybe when we compare genders, but if you compare just lead what makes someone a leader, we know we know what a leader looks like regardless of gender. I I always think there's something interesting about how society we like leadership, and we actually hunger for it.
Host Tim Thompson:We want somebody that is putting themselves out there and showing us how to do something we all want to accomplish. And when I look at your posts and you're always you're posting things about the work you're doing, but you also bring in life and lifestyle. It's the reason why I reached out to you. You seem to be doing something that naturally is coming out as a leader.
Alana Tompson:Well, I would actually say it's not natural at all. I feel uncomfortable sharing and posting and putting myself out there on LinkedIn, but I know that it's an important tool in growing a business, so I force myself through that feeling of being uncomfortable to do it because I know how valuable it is when you're trying to grow, and that's the phase that I'm in. And I know that you need to show up, and you need to establish authority, and let people know who you are and what you're about and what you stand for, and so that's the process that I've been going through. I started with a business coach, Dan Lenny, just over a year ago. And when I first started with him, I had posted once on LinkedIn my entire life.
Alana Tompson:So I had zero I had zero visibility on there. Yeah, 0 followers, 0 visibility. And so I just started posting and started digging and thinking about, well, what do I want to say? Who am I? And also just getting over the anxiety that comes with speaking up and going, you know, it's actually okay to be loud and to take up space and to talk about what I care about.
Alana Tompson:And so it's actually been quite a process to get to that stage.
Host Tim Thompson:What are we seeing then? We're not seeing a manufactured person. I think that the person that's coming out when you finally type those words, maybe you're not feeling comfortable. But you have a voice inside your head that knows what you're driven to do. Are you finding that people are following you and asking you questions about the work that you're doing or some of the more stronger convictions you might have or the type of effort you're putting into something and recognizing something different in you and and following you because of that difference?
Alana Tompson:I mean, I can't speak to why people follow me, but I do know that it's opening a lot of amazing conversations with people, and it is bringing like minded people to me, and I'm finding fan like, meeting up for coffee with amazing, you know, producers and directors and crew and people that run other production companies. And so I am having this amazing networking opportunities come from it with people that are very like minded.
Host Tim Thompson:Who are some of your role models that you know, as you strive to become the person you're becoming, that you would wanna be like them?
Alana Tompson:That is a great question. That's something that I've been grappling with lately because, as I said to you, I'm mother of a 2 and a 4 year old, and I run a production company. And there's not really anyone for me to look to that is like me doing what I want to do. If you know someone, please tell me. But I don't really have role models like that that are in a similar boat to me running a production company on their own whilst juggling kids.
Alana Tompson:So I don't have any role models that I can look to at this stage that are doing what I wanna be doing. But I have had some incredible mentors. David Finegan is one of them, who you know well.
Host Tim Thompson:I don't even. Yes.
Alana Tompson:He has been fantastic in guiding me and helping me through things, and he's actually the the entire reason why the podcast exists. He was the one that said, you need to do it. You're so passionate about this. Start talking about it. Put yourself out there.
Alana Tompson:And I was like, Oh, I don't know. People probably don't want to listen to me. And he's like, Just do it. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then he kept, like, sending little prompts and, like, are you doing it yet?
Alana Tompson:Here's an idea. So he's the whole reason why I even started the podcast. So I would say he's really been an amazing guide for me, but I am definitely lacking in role models and people to look up to that I could see myself in that are doing what I wanna do.
Host Tim Thompson:Well, first of all, I'm gonna agree with you, David. He is I feel like he's a great cheerleader. He is a lovely and friendly person the first time you ever meet him. But I also there's something interesting about needing that outside voice, a person you'd love and trust that will give you that feedback and you're willing to go along with it. You know, there are other people that would give you advice, so you're like, thanks for the advice, and you kinda just move on.
Host Tim Thompson:And then there's those that you know are guiding you towards the person you want to be or recognizing you for who you actually are and then giving you that direction and holding you accountable. I think that's
Alana Tompson:And believing in you as well.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. Totally.
Alana Tompson:I've come to terms with the fact that I probably won't get a mentor, but it gives me even more energy to be that mentor for the other people that are coming behind me. So I regularly meet up for coffees with people who are entering the industry or who wanna go from being a freelancer to starting a production You know, there's all those things that we've learnt through pain and mistakes, and it's just so easy to be able to pass that information on to someone else and help them avoid those things.
Host Tim Thompson:I read a book about mentorship once and it talks about the 3 strands of a rope and talking about how your your life is actually been mentorship life as these three strands of rope. And the one is finding the person that's further along than you, who's giving you a sense of, you know, what it what happens next so you can kinda guide yourself through it and make smart choices. And then the second strand is your peer group. So, it's kind of looking to your left and to your right and recognizing there are unique needs in your peer group of just how old you are or how long you've been in the industry is just so different. And then the 3rd strand is you becoming the mentor and bringing someone up, because you learn so much more by being a mentor.
Host Tim Thompson:You learn more about yourself and someone's asking you questions and being challenged. So it sounds to me like when you stack up those 3, that you have some of that going on for you. The 3 strands are there.
Alana Tompson:Yeah. For sure. And it's also it's so important to look back at how far you've come, and I think being a mentor helps you do that because you're like, oh, I actually do know what to do in this situation. And you can kinda have that self reflection and see how far you have come and grown.
Host Tim Thompson:I guess I have a question for you, first said and done, your business and the the stuff you're doing. I'm gonna ask an obvious question maybe to give the audience some perspective of what I see in your LinkedIn posts. And I think I know the answer to it. I just wanna point that out there as this question seems too obvious. In all the posts I see, there are women on your crew.
Host Tim Thompson:Is it an all woman crew?
Alana Tompson:They did some research recently in Australia into camera crews, and the, research paper was called A Wider Lens. And they looked at who was in the industry and what percentages they make up. And it found that the industry, particularly in camera, was 96% men. And that statistic, as a female cinematographer, really struck me, and I was like, wow, I think I need to make my crews 96% women, and just flip those statistics completely upside down and in some small way try to balance out the imbalances in the greater industry. So some of my crews are all women, but we do occasionally have a token man.
Host Tim Thompson:Oh, a token. Give me that.
Alana Tompson:Just joking, you know. But going through our industry, sometimes being the token woman, it's nice to kind of flip that upside down sometimes. And so I do try to prioritise women and gender diverse creatives. And then since starting to do that, I've then expanded out and tried to look at other ways that I can be diverse. And it's bringing in people with neurodiversities or different, you know, gender, sexuality, race, disability, all those different kinds of things.
Alana Tompson:So I'm starting to try to become more, intersectional in my approach to crewing.
Host Tim Thompson:It's incredible. Because one is is that we'll say, like, there's probably some easy ways of getting projects done, not putting as much effort into it. And you just find someone with experience that you already know, regardless of gender, and you hire them and you always hire them. And it perpetuates who your crew is and therefore, most likely 96% of them are men because that's the ones that you have always used or whatever, without any making any conscious decision to challenge yourself and to move forward with a vision and a purpose, and then knowing that it works and it would work because, one, you have a vision that is going to happen. But also taking and making a choice that other people don't make.
Host Tim Thompson:There's a unique quality in that ability to do that. So was the report the tipping point, that research paper that you read? Was that the tipping point for making that decision?
Alana Tompson:I think it just happened slowly over time. Definitely seeing those results were like, wow. Like, I knew it was bad. I didn't realize it was that bad. And, you know, any type of crew that I'm on, I'm always the only female camera operator.
Alana Tompson:It's very incredibly rare that I'm there with another woman unless I've hired them or I've bought them on. And so it just slowly became a thing where I was like, I just want to diversify, at least my crews, because I think, at the end of the day, the whole reason that we do what we do is because we're storytellers. Right? And how can you tell a truly impactful story if you're only telling it from one point of view? So I think the more diverse people you can get into a crew, the more diverse perspectives you can get, the richer the storytelling becomes and, ultimately, the better your final product is.
Alana Tompson:You know, for a lot of people, it's not like they're deliberately trying to exclude women. It's like, as you said, it's just that they know men, and so men come on their crews and they've worked together and it's easy. And I also understand that it's not easy to find new people. You have to go through a process of trialling them out. And even just to find diverse creatives, it's you have to search harder, you've got to look further, you may have to mentor them, you might have to help them through.
Alana Tompson:It's not just a put them on crew and then off they go. You know, they're gonna need your guidance and help, especially if they're new to the industry. So it is it is a commitment, and it is a process. But I think it's something well worth committing to just, if nothing else, for the sake of storytelling.
Host Tim Thompson:I love the e is in the word commit. There's an intentionality that's necessary in order to change things or do things differently. There's a a greater need for something. Somebody has to make the difference. And if you're gonna if you're gonna do something intentionally and be committed to it, you're clearly gonna stand out in the crowd.
Host Tim Thompson:So tell me where help me for a moment, right, and tell me where I'm naive and understanding something that I I'm not gonna know it from anywhere else besides you. And can I just say it in a silly way or, like, in a simple way of just saying, like, isn't it the same? I mean, don't you get the same results regardless of gender? Or are you finding you get different results because you've made a choice and then you're seeing the results of that intentionality, where people who aren't ever asking the question or trying something different, they'll never even recognize there is a diversity in the execution of the work.
Alana Tompson:So recently, we did a job for Air Canada, and they contacted me and said that they wanted No, it's totally possible. I can get you an all female crew. No problem. And they're like, really? Like, even the camera operators?
Alana Tompson:And I'm like, yeah. Soundies, camera ops, everything. It's fine. It's no problem. I've got them all here.
Alana Tompson:We're ready to go. And they were shocked that we could bring it together that quickly. And we did the shoot, and at the end of it, the feedback that they the client got from the people who were interviewing was that they felt that the set was way more nurturing, and they just felt more kind of held and supported in the process. It's not for me to draw comparisons between, you know, certain types of people on set, but the feedback that we do get the most often is that people say that it's a more nurturing environment.
Host Tim Thompson:It sounds like you've discovered something pretty amazing then. And and you were intentional on doing something, but you're seeing amazing results. Do you feel a burden that you have to keep up with it now? Like, do you always do you have to stay with that clear purpose? Or do you personally know that you've discovered something and you're open to a different direction in the future if it presented itself?
Alana Tompson:Yeah. So it's not a burden because this is something that I'm really passionate about. So for me, it just it's just the way I wanna operate. And it's not a burden at all to keep doing it because it makes it's what makes me happy. The podcast lights me up and makes me happy.
Alana Tompson:As I said to you, I don't even care if anybody's listening. Just being able to do it is so exciting, and to hear from all these people that are pushing change, I guess it definitely ties into the entire reason that I got into film, and I told you it was a transition from dancing to film. But what actually happened was that I watched a documentary, and this documentary had such an incredible impact on me that I couldn't sleep the night after I watched it. And from the very next day, it completely changed my life around. And I thought, oh my gosh.
Alana Tompson:If a documentary can have that much impact on me, then film just is such a powerful medium for change. And that's what made me want to switch into film because I was like, I want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of pushing change and making people feel something to such a degree that it it changes their actions for the better, for the betterment of the world. That sounds very grand, but, yeah, I have always been about pushing change and trying to contribute in some way, and whether that's through activism or whether that's through, you know, pushing diversity on crews, in any small way, making change for the better, it's something that just excites me and lights me up. So it's never a burden.
Alana Tompson:It's it gives me energy.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. I can you keep using the word passion as a core that you know that it's something that when you are doing what you're supposed to do, it's comes very easy, doesn't it?
Alana Tompson:It feels different. It feels different.
Host Tim Thompson:The things you're passionate about.
Alana Tompson:Yeah. Your passion or your purpose. Things just kinda fall into line, and you seem to meet the right people and everything just kinda works and flows. You can definitely feel when you're in alignment and when you're not, don't you think?
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. Give me an example of when it you weren't in alignment, where you knew that you're being challenged and maybe you just need to push through to to deliver, but you were like, I I don't wanna ever do this again.
Alana Tompson:Yeah. I can give you an example right now, but I'm not going to because it's where I could get a particular client, in an industry that I don't
Host Tim Thompson:Don't give me details, but kinda give me give me some sense of, some characteristics of some of an issue that
Alana Tompson:Okay.
Host Tim Thompson:That's come up in the past.
Alana Tompson:So yeah. I think, obviously, being in video production, we work with lots of different clients and lots of different industries. And to give you a really vague example, there was an experience where I was working in an industry that I didn't wholeheartedly support, and I could just feel in myself that I wasn't happy. I wasn't aligning with my purpose. I wasn't aligning with my beliefs.
Alana Tompson:It was going against my ethics and what I believed in. And so I think it's really important that you are working on projects that you do line up with and that you do believe in because you can just feel that tension and friction when it doesn't line up, and it doesn't feel good. But when you're doing something lines up with your ethics and your beliefs, it just pushes forward easier. And you just feel happy. You feel at ease.
Alana Tompson:There's no friction.
Host Tim Thompson:Choosing to work with creative entrepreneurs instead of just entrepreneurial issues or whatever. I feel like one of the things that I've in that choice for me is to recognize that creative entrepreneurs have something on the inside that have to come out. It's often a client finds that that they ask a creative person to come alongside them. And what feels like trapped inside of that creative person is the story has to come out, and they're gonna use whatever means that they've been trained to get it out or have this natural skill to get it out. So it might be acting or directing or animating or whatever, but that story has to come out.
Host Tim Thompson:When you apply that to the entrepreneurial edge that they're trying to accomplish, I also find that there's a purpose that they have that wants to come out. And I often say it's, you know, we get into this industry for fame, fortune, or freedom. So there's this idea of, like, I'm gonna go towards that industry because I have the independence to express my thoughts, or I can use fame to be an influencer, or, honestly, there's some easy money in it compared to other ways or other positions that don't make us a good of, of a don't have as as affluent of an opportunity to make money. But I often find like when working with a creative entrepreneur, they they do have that limit you're talking about. That when they're outside of their comfort zone, only working for money, it doesn't drive them.
Host Tim Thompson:And I often find like I don't even personally, the entrepreneurs that are only going for the cash, the biggest dollar amount without any filters, aren't the ones I jive with as much. It's not the ones I connect with as much. Because I think I've built more to try to get the thing out of the person and into the, into the marketplace then just, like, can you make profit? You can make tons of profit. Right?
Host Tim Thompson:You can just basically, you know, outsource work to people and not pay them what they deserve. You can make lots of profit.
Alana Tompson:Join the race to the bottom.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. Exactly. Right. The commoditize everybody and and own and you're only one that gains. So I feel like you're recognizing the similar pattern yourself.
Host Tim Thompson:It's There's a passion and understanding and a filter that says, hey, when finding purpose, real purpose, it aligns with what you your goals or your your convictions that you might have. And then if it doesn't, regardless if it's profitable, even as a business person, it just feels kinda yucky.
Alana Tompson:There's definitely a balance there between trying to grow your business and increase income and then also work with the things that you believe in that feel good. It's it's definitely a balance, and it's not always easy, you know, particularly when you've got kids, and you've got to provide for them, and you've got the cost of day care, and you're trying to get your family into a house and all those things. You know? So it can be easy to, kind of, look at the the profit and the income, but then all of a sudden, you're like, why don't I feel good? And it's like, oh, okay, because you haven't been doing these things that feed your soul, and it's finding that balance between the 2.
Alana Tompson:And I think, for me, if I was to win the lotto tomorrow and I didn't have to worry about money anymore, I would probably go back to being a freelance DOP and not running a production company and only working on impact documentaries that make, you know, a massive change in the world. Like, that's what would just light me up. I would 100% do that for free. And so I think that's when you know you found the right thing, when you know that if money wasn't an issue, you'd still be doing that thing. But then, granted, you can't always make money doing that, so you have to then expand it out to being a production company, but still finding that that balance within that.
Host Tim Thompson:Oh, well said. And and gosh, doesn't that that's the part that sucks about the entrepreneurial thing is that, yeah, I really wanna only do the passion projects. Right? The freedom and the fame elements and the fortune thing is, you know, not always one that's driving me. But there is an obviously a need of providing and sometimes you're saying yes to projects or doing certain work that, you know, some call it trash for cash, like you're simply just doing it for payroll.
Alana Tompson:It's hard. Right? Because we get into this industry because we're so passionate about it. But then you grow up and you have kids or you have a family or you wanna buy a house, and it's like all of a sudden you've gotta make money and you gotta be accountable and you gotta pay bills, and all of a sudden the thing that you are so passionate about becomes just a job. And it's very hard to then find ways to reignite that passion again.
Alana Tompson:But I think leaving a space to, like, take on a certain amount of passion projects really helps with that.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. I told I mean, the the term starving artist is a term because if you were only the artist, there seems to be a compromise for everything else than just that's that part. There is, you know, one of the things that we often try to work with with entrepreneurs is this thought of, like, you're actually making all those choices. You have the opportunity to make those choices and you can. I think that some people get pulled into something so deep, and then they wake up one morning wondering how they got down this certain path or known for something that when they started their career or started their business, they had a different intention.
Host Tim Thompson:But this is where the money was and they find themselves deep into it. And so working someone back out to finding that passion, the term I often use is purpose. If I know your purpose, then you have a compass and I can build you a roadmap back out or build your roadmap to that future, where if the purpose is strong, that compass is very strong. Actually, I think it becomes like a magnetic attraction, almost a true north for other people. And that's what is driving you in that leader position where other people wanna see you and follow you because you're like, wow.
Host Tim Thompson:Your your compass is so strong. Your sense of purpose is so there. Can I wanna watch you and be part of it and learn from you? And then I it might rekindle my my desire and my purpose by watching yours.
Alana Tompson:I don't know. It's funny. Every time you say, you know, people are watching you and and, you know, saying, I wanna be like that, it makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't particularly think that anyone's watching me. I just do it because I love it, and I don't know if it resonates with anyone else. And frankly, I don't care.
Alana Tompson:It's just it's what I care about, and hopefully other people can tolerate it. But, you know, I I can't do it any other way.
Host Tim Thompson:I think the I don't care is the filter. Yeah. But you're because the I don't care is the filter because you're saying, like, with you didn't have to care about money, you would do it. Like, the I don't care is how strong it is. It's black and white.
Host Tim Thompson:You know what to cut away when you when you wanna get rid of it. But I think that the sense when you have a strong sense of purpose, it does give you energy. Right? That's one of the key elements. It brings a lot of joy.
Host Tim Thompson:So fun is part of it, and it makes you a lot of money or makes you, let's say the right amount of money, because you don't have to go for a lot of money. But it, it does provide for you. There's just a need to recognize, especially as an entrepreneur, and maybe that's the same idea of the balance you're talking about is that the market is asking you for something. And if your purpose aligns that you are created for your time and your generation, then your generation is asking for something and you're supposed to do the thing for your generation. So there is something to push away from what the market is asking from.
Host Tim Thompson:It can also be some of you holding yourself back. So I think that you're you might be finding acceptance, like your Air Canada example. Acceptance because the marketplace is actually asking for something, and that is matches your purpose, and so you're thriving, because of that. I
Alana Tompson:think it's definitely the right time for this. I think people have really been focusing more on diversity and that it's important to for all types of people to see themselves on screen, but I think it's also equally important for all types of people to see themselves, below the line, you know, making the content as well. So I think it's definitely a time where people have started to become a lot more aware of that. There's still a long way to go, but it's definitely starting to shift, which is fantastic. So I suppose it is definitely the right time, but, yeah, we do have a long way to go.
Alana Tompson:I spoke to I'm not sure if you're familiar with Gretchen Waltham, her handle's lady camera guy on Instagram. She's an amazing camera operator from the States. You should definitely look her up. But, yeah, she does a lot of work in getting women onto sets and, like, shifting diversity. And she was saying that she crunched the numbers recently and looked at, you know, how many were women used to be on set and how many shows were running and how many camera operators there were per show.
Alana Tompson:And then she looked at now how many shows are running with streaming and how many different camera ops there are and looked at the percentages. And she said that, unfortunately, it doesn't actually look like it's changed that much at all. So she's saying a lot of work actually still needs to be done. Like, there's a lot of people, kind of, celebrating how much it has changed when, actually, it hasn't really changed that much at all. So there is a lot of work that still needs to be done in in pushing that forwards and diversifying our crews.
Host Tim Thompson:So you're saying that we're only seeing it more often, but it's actually not may having an impact as as often as we're seeing it.
Alana Tompson:But, yeah, I mean, there's so many more shows now because because of streaming and so many more camera ops on those shows. And, yeah, if you if you look at the numbers, it actually hasn't changed that significantly.
Host Tim Thompson:Mhmm. That's interesting.
Alana Tompson:It's a bit of a text statement. I don't know if you should keep that in, but that's what she was saying when I, interviewed her on my podcast. And, yeah, she specifically tries to build crews and lists full of women and gender diverse people to push them on. Like, that's her whole thing. Her platform lady camera guy on Instagram is just basically a hype woman for everyone and just pushing all their content through.
Alana Tompson:And she's got about, I think, 90,000 followers, and that's all that she does, is just try to amplify other people's stories and lift them up. So she's kinda all about that.
Host Tim Thompson:All groups, all societies, all industries need these, strong voices to put themselves out there in order to advocate for others. I think there's a beautiful moment that when you can get to that point in your career where that you're no longer, almost like in a Maslow hierarchy, you're no longer worrying about just providing for yourself or maybe providing for the people that are immediately dependent on you, but you can push even further and say, I'm not making money off of this thing. I'm just have a purpose. And I'm by promoting others and pushing it out there, we all get stronger together. So those voices in our industry, they're so amazing when they come about.
Host Tim Thompson:You can respect them a 100% because you know there's a lot of effort, unselfish effort being put into that kind of promotion.
Alana Tompson:Yeah. 100%. And I think that definitely coincides with when you start to move into that mentor phase as well.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. Exactly. When I think of legacy and purpose, right, a lot of us, you know, when we first get started in our naive way, we think legacy and purpose is like holding a statuette in our hands and thanking our our agent and our mom for getting us here. As you live out the career, you realize, no, it's the people we're standing next to and building them up is a much such a greater purpose than just, I don't know, pulling attention to yourself. And that concern for others and empathy for those other voices and knowing, like, wait a second, this is my moment to speak up or my moment to do something.
Alana Tompson:I think when you've been speaking up for a long time too, you get tired when you get into your forties and start getting a bit older. And I think that's So I think it is important to, like, nurture those people coming up and and to get them ready for their time to to take over when we can step back in our rocking chairs. Well, that's
Host Tim Thompson:how we got to where we were. Somebody somebody gave it to us. Right? That's where the somebody saw something in us and said, hey. I I have an opportunity.
Host Tim Thompson:I'm gonna give it to you. So now it's our turn as we get older to to pass it on to the next generation and be intentional about that, not just keep it all to ourselves or whatever. Yeah.
Alana Tompson:100%. And there is a lot of that kinda guarding in our industries, isn't there? I find that so often. And it's like, actually, no matter what you're doing, whether it's like mentorship or speaking out about something or going for jobs or whatever, you know, like, coming at it from a point of generosity, just everything flows and works so much better. But when you have that that mentality of closing yourself in and keeping it all to yourself, it just doesn't seem to you see people who do that, and they don't seem to do too well.
Alana Tompson:I think coming at it from a point of generosity and sharing, no matter what it is that you're doing or what aspect you're working on, it just everything flows so much better.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. I think it's there are desperate people that as they get older and they haven't earned what they needed to or done what they're supposed to do, I find that they're they become bigger and bigger takers because they think they either deserve it because they've put all that time and effort into it, or they are desperate and they're trying to capture the last pieces before their career finishes. And you can definitely feel that energy in those companies or those leaders when they're doing that, opposed to those who, no matter what situation they're in, they recognize the value is in other people. And knowing and, meeting them and building them up are is the greater purpose.
Alana Tompson:A 100%. I come across those people a fair bit, actually, and you can really tell.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. It's, it becomes I don't know, their sales tactics become they sound a little bit more desperate. Their desire to connect, feels a little bit more superficial. Empty. Yeah.
Host Tim Thompson:Empty. Yeah. Instead of, I don't know, I think when you're investing in someone else's story. And so there's a desire to have that little girl inside of you who wanted to grow up and tell stories to then recognize it's not just your story, but other stories that you can capture and pull out of others. It's like a it's more fulfilling.
Alana Tompson:And there's a story on the screen, but I think that the story that happens behind the camera, behind the screen is equally important, and that's the story in and of itself.
Host Tim Thompson:I've raised my kids to be appreciators of the auteur. So it's the filmmaker and the story it takes to get that film on the screen and how that director was able to convince that studio to back them up to leverage 3 films to get to that 4th film, and to get these actors that they've collected over the years and these little projects to get these big projects done. All of that is hard, long term work and to appreciate the effort that some of these filmmakers really put into it. I so I think you're right. It's it's greater to appreciate the artist in that form than just the art itself.
Alana Tompson:Mhmm. 100%.
Host Tim Thompson:Alright. So what comes next? What do you desire to have, change because you were around and made the effort to to make that change?
Alana Tompson:Do you mean on broader picture or in my business?
Host Tim Thompson:Let's say both.
Alana Tompson:For me, personally, in my business, I think it's just about moving forward and continuing through this growth phase. I'm in a bit of a growth phase at the moment that's uncomfortable and hurts a little bit. Things are stretching, so I'm just going through that, one foot in front of the other at the moment. I'd love to come out the side of that and be in a place that's a little bit easier and where I'm not so much on the verge of a burnout all the time. So I'm really looking forward to just getting through this particular phase, which I know you're probably very familiar with, moving into a place where there's more support and it's a little bit easier, and potentially stepping back off the tools a little bit more as well.
Alana Tompson:And big picture, I want to just keep doing what I'm doing, and I really hope that through the podcast and through meeting these incredible people out there that are pushing change and doing things differently and trying to disrupt the industry and make it a better place, I really hope that through all those little connections, it just kind of creates a bit of a momentum that maybe inspires some of the younger people coming up to to carry that on and that ultimately, our industry just becomes more diverse and beautiful and open and richer.
Host Tim Thompson:You have a very strong understanding of who Alana is and how she's going to make a difference. And you're gonna make a difference by being exactly who you need to be to other people. And also recognizing that you're willing to, in a way, push through what's a hard season right now for your business in order to make that contribution. So, that's how you get to the other side of the stretching goal is that you have a goal even greater than the one you're in right now. And that's why you stretch and that's why you get through the stress moment to build up that muscle.
Alana Tompson:In the meantime, it's just staying positive, continuing to take action and not giving up, just keeping
Host Tim Thompson:going. There's something so true about that as an entrepreneur, isn't it? The the not giving up days. Because some days, you're just your first thoughts in the morning can be very stressful thoughts, aren't they, when come mornings.
Alana Tompson:It's funny. I have a conversation with a lot of people that I work with who are in a similar situation, and we all have this little fantasy of doing a really mundane job, that has absolutely nothing to do with film. For me, it used to be like moving to the hills and, like, selling homemade moisturisers at a market. For someone else, it's being a pizza delivery driver. For someone else, it was being a lawn mower driver.
Alana Tompson:And it's just the idea. I wanna be the, parking lot valet. There you go. See? And I feel Put all
Host Tim Thompson:this stuff in a tight spot, and that's all I have to worry about.
Alana Tompson:I feel like everyone in this industry has this fantasy of this job that that doesn't require them to be creative or to be stressed out or any of the things that it does. And that's about having community and people who understand that, that you can go and speak to. David Finegan's been fantastic, like that for me. I say to him, I need to have a lawnmower chat and talk to you because I'm feeling like quitting again. And we can go and we can break it all down and talk about it because it is it is stressful.
Alana Tompson:It is challenging to to keep going, and I think surrounding yourself with like minded people that support you and that understand the struggles of running a creative business is so important.
Host Tim Thompson:That's why, like, the systems and routines, the method keeps you moving so you know what the next step is even if you're not ready for it. We call these the 2 AM issues.
Alana Tompson:Uh-huh.
Host Tim Thompson:Now that we have this community of nearly, at the time of this recording, about 650 creative business owners
Alana Tompson:Wow.
Host Tim Thompson:We can literally see that 2 AM is when people are jumping on and throwing out the question, is everyone slow right now? Or does anyone know how to do cash flow? It's the darn thoughts that keep you up at night or wake you up in the middle of night or the first thing in the morning where you're thinking, am I gonna get that job? Is that pitch gonna happen today? And it's those first thoughts, like, wow, why why did I choose this burden of ownership?
Host Tim Thompson:It wouldn't be just so nice to be naive again and being someone's employee and just, just doing the job at hand.
Alana Tompson:And that's it. And I think that's why we all have these, fantasies about jobs where we aren't the boss, and we're just doing a very simple task for you know, the variety and the you know, the variety and challenges, and it's it's what's exciting about it. So we wouldn't do it any other way, but it's okay to have that fantasy about something else. But I just don't know if there's any other job in the world where people fantasise about being, what did you say? Was it a valet driver?
Alana Tompson:Or, like, you know, just these where you fantasize about these jobs where someone tells you what to do, and it's just you don't have to think, and it just sounds blissful, doesn't it?
Host Tim Thompson:My valet driver fantasy actually was because my office at Imaginary Forces was I had the back window view of the parking lot. And one day, I was absolutely stressed. I mean, there's no there was no no doubt that it the task in front of me was impossible, and I had to, like, find a moment. And I looked down the parking lot, and I saw the valet driver, and I thought, gosh, I just wanna go park cars right now. And it stuck with me.
Host Tim Thompson:But I swear, like, within 10 minutes, I looked at that guy, and he was super stressed because he had, like, 7 people waiting. And I realized, damn, every job has that
Alana Tompson:stress. You don't
Host Tim Thompson:get you never it's just a fantasy.
Alana Tompson:Right. When you first
Host Tim Thompson:said do something.
Alana Tompson:The valet parker, I felt a sense of calm. I was like, that sounds really relaxing. But yeah. You're right.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. Until the end of lunch hour, and then you're stressed or whatever. It just all has it. Right?
Alana Tompson:It's just our human existence.
Host Tim Thompson:Game we play. So we're all we're constantly almost out of breath, but it's not drowning. It's you're just on the 20th mile of your marathon. It's just you're out of breath because there's more to do, and you have a bigger goal than where you are right now.
Alana Tompson:I mean, you could stop the feeling of drowning by just being comfortable with the way you are, just sitting and not growing, you know, but nobody wants that. So that's the conundrum, isn't it?
Host Tim Thompson:Oh, that our industry will will take you. There'll be somebody who compete with you or a technology that will move faster than you, and you're just not gonna be able to make it. So it is the ride that we're choosing to be on. It's kind of the fun part too, though.
Alana Tompson:It is. Yeah. I love a good challenge. I love having to think on my feet and, you know, I think the challenge is, like, ultimately, we're creatives. Right?
Alana Tompson:So our brain works in creative ways, and we wanna be hands on, which is very different to being a business owner or being an entrepreneur. It's a totally different set of skills, and so it can be really uncomfortable trying to learn those skills. And it's almost like you need to wear 2 hats because they're very different ways of thinking, aren't they? And it's that whole thing of getting out of your business to be able to work on the business and change that mindset and learn those new skills.
Host Tim Thompson:My theory is is that it even just not only is it a different way of thinking, actually comes from a different part of the brain where the brain itself is looking for the muse. It's looking for this, this moment. And it has to let go because the spot where that thing comes, shows up in the brain is lower on the brainstem and it hijacks all rational thought. Or in a way, you have to let go of rational thought to get there. But it's also in the same part of the brain that does fight and flight.
Host Tim Thompson:So I almost feel like, you know, as a creative person, you feel like you're taking a risk because you have to go into that place. And then, you know, it has to be a safe place. And there and when you get in there, you can explore and you can see so much. But if I said, hey. Can you be logical for a minute?
Host Tim Thompson:You know, it's just like a record scratch, like, and I have to pull you out of all this effort and work to go like, can you just look at this balance sheet? And you're like, I don't even like, you just wanna blow up.
Alana Tompson:It's far too relatable, an example.
Host Tim Thompson:Yeah. It's how it feels. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Host Tim Thompson:It's really unfair. It's like, well, it's tax season. You have to put on a different brain. You're like, I make a living inside of this other space that feels very dangerous and very odd edge. And when I find it, I'll know it's there, but I have to keep on looking.
Host Tim Thompson:And you want me to look at something. Can't can't anybody look at a balance sheet and just tell me if I'm okay. Right? That's how you want to delegate that decision.
Alana Tompson:Yeah. Oh, that's the power of outsourcing that, isn't it?
Host Tim Thompson:You know? What I've learned is to make promises to creative people that, hey, if you follow the lead, almost like the your idea of a dance. If if, if you follow the lead, I'm not gonna ask you out of turn. So you know what to expect, and therefore, you come prepared. You know what the meeting is or what the purpose is or what the report's supposed to do or what the decision points are, they're not a surprise to you.
Host Tim Thompson:So you can engage, make the decision, and then go back into your space instead of being disrupted. Like it's otherwise, it's no one without those routines or at those systems, people just knock on your door whenever they need to knock on the door, and you don't know when to expect it, and it's almost like a chaos for you. You don't know when to jump in and when to jump out and the pressure's on here and the pressure's on there and it just becomes too much. Their company is called Said and Done Media. I like the name said and done.
Host Tim Thompson:It is very fitting for, you know, intention, purpose, completion. But your podcast is said and undone. You've mentioned it many times, but I want people to know that the said and undone is really you unraveling what it takes to get the work done, isn't it?
Alana Tompson:Yeah. Exactly. And just speaking to the people that are doing amazing work in our industry and hearing their stories and finding out what is being done and what still needs to be done to make our industry a more inclusive place. So it's really opening things up and hearing about what's going on on the inside.
Host Tim Thompson:It's so wonderful to have this conversation with you. Thank you for the work that you're doing in our industry. Thank you for being the purposeful person that you are. Making a promise to yourself and giving yourself permission to to be the leader that you've become. And I know you might say to me one more time that, you don't you might not feel like the leader that you are, but I'm watching you from the outside.
Host Tim Thompson:David, introduced us, through social media, and I can see that the voices that need to be in our industry are coming through you and your purpose. So thanks for doing that.
Alana Tompson:Thank you for saying that. That means a lot. And thanks for taking the time to chat. It's been fantastic to connect 1 on 1 with you and hear a bit about your story as well.
Host Tim Thompson:I'm gonna download all your podcasts right now, by the way.
Alana Tompson:It's a work in progress, but do listen to the lady camera guy 1 because she is over there, and I think you'll find it really insightful. And she's actually really funny. It's a great episode.
Host Tim Thompson:You're gonna need more subscribers, so I'm gonna hit that subscribe button. I'm going to tell everyone listening to this podcast, you need to hit 2 subscribe buttons today. 1 to this rev thinking podcast, if you're not already on there, but also to the Set and Undone podcast from Alana. There's so many great stories that are taking place and we'll keep on following each other as time goes on. But it's amazing.
Host Tim Thompson:Thank you again. And, we wish you all the luck, and we'll connect again sometime in the future.
Alana Tompson:Thanks, Tim. See you later.
Host Tim Thompson:Thank you for joining us for another episode of the rev thinking podcast. And thank you for being part of this journey where we dive deep into the heart of creativity and the business behind it. If today's conversation inspired you, sparked an idea, or gave you a tool to move forward, please share it with someone else who could benefit from it. Your support helps us reach and empower more creative entrepreneurs just like you. The Rev Thinking podcast is a product of Rev Think and hosted by myself, Tim Thompson, founder and chief revolution thinker at Rev Think.
Host Tim Thompson:Don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with our latest insights, stories, and conversations. And if you're looking to dive deeper into mastering the 7 ingredients of a creative business, visit us at revthink.com. Here, you'll find resources, tools, and a community of like minded business leaders like yourself. If you are a studio owner, join us at revthink.com/community, and join our community of over 600 business owners learning, discussing, and sharing life together. At Revthink, we're here to help you thrive in your business, life, and career because at Revthink, we believe the best way to deal with the future is to create it.
Host Tim Thompson:So until next time, keep creating, keep innovating, and remember, your best work is yet to come.