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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:01.39)
Howdy, friend. How are you?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:03.453)
Hello. I'm a little sleepy. I binge read some fanfic over the weekend and haven't quite recovered yet.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:12.422)
no, it feels like it's becoming a theme because I feel like the last couple of episodes you've been like, I'm tired because I was up all night watching something or reading something or whatever.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:21.413)
Yeah, apparently I have no self-control, but anyway, how are you?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:24.34)
No, no, the podcast has developed like it reveals things about yourself over time. I'm you know, I'm good. I'm good. I'm thinking about AI and aging and I don't know, creativity. But I don't know. In some ways, I think it relates to what I think you want to talk about, because I've been feeling I think it's because I've gone on some hormones to help with my paraminopause.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:31.557)
It really does.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:41.554)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:52.818)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:53.474)
And I can feel myself coming out a little bit of my fog that I've been in and talking about here for months and feeling more energy and more like back into the among the living. And I'm feeling this pull to be more creative. I think partially because I have more energy, but also a big part of it feels like a response to what's going on in the world. And just like, I can't focus on the heaviness all the time because it really wears you down.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:03.249)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:18.734)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:20.11)
And I find that when I need something to pull me out of the heaviness or when I need something to keep me away from the heaviness for a while, creating feels really useful to me in doing that. And I've been using AI for some creating. So anyway, that's where I have been. And I know you want to talk a little bit about like ways to like what to do at this moment, which I think is important because a lot of us feel like what the fuck can we do?
Taina Brown she/hers (01:29.243)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:41.883)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, think I was saying I've come across a few posts on social media about little things that people can do. And I think when we talk about things like anti-fascism and resisting and things like that, and we've talked about this before on the podcast and just off also how those things feel really big and overwhelming. And it's like, how do you do that on a day-to-day basis?
make that microscopic for you, like how do you narrow that down. And so there are a few things that I think could be really easy that I've seen on these posts that I think we should share, or I wanted to share with you specifically. But.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:33.022)
I love that. Before we share them, I want to just share. I'll just share something because I am currently listening to a book called The Ministry of Time by I don't know how to say her name. I think it's Kalani Bradley. Maybe it's Bradley. It's K-A-L-I-A-N-E Bradley. And the book's OK. So I don't mean to because I'm about to share some stuff that sound really powerful and there are powerful parts, but I don't know on the whole that I would give it like five stars, but it's OK. It's fine.
But there it's this time travel thing, which is also part of the problem. I'm not real big into like sci-fi and time travel. But the premise doesn't bother me. It's just a little like the pacing and the, the plot. But anyway, there's a couple of quotes because she's introducing this person to, from the past to the concept of like the Holocaust. And he's of course, like in horror about this whole thing. And he says, well, here's what he said. He said, how could this have been allowed to happen?
Taina Brown she/hers (03:06.639)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:25.602)
Why did anybody do anything?
Becky Mollenkamp (03:31.18)
And she said, people know, and then they chose not to know. And I thought, like it really hit me because it made me think about what's going on with El Salvador in particular and the prison there and innocent lives that are there and this feeling of like, what the fuck can I do? And one other thing they said was everything that has ever been could have been prevented. Cause he said, why wasn't it prevented, right? And she says, well, everything that has ever been could have been prevented and none of it was.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:44.28)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:00.866)
And the only thing you can do is mend the future. I quoted both these things on Blue Sky. That's how I was able to look them up. Because they both just really hit me in this moment of where we're at and that feeling of like, I think so many of us are feeling that we're living through, I don't want to ever make a direct comparison to the Holocaust. This is its own time in history. But in this moment of like, we know something big and terrible is happening. And people have always talked about that feeling of like, well, what would you have done?
Taina Brown she/hers (04:25.015)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:28.608)
in that moment and thinking about that quote of they first they came for the creatives and I wasn't a creative or the artist and I was an artist. And it's like we're in that moment and it does feel a little bit of like, I don't know what to do, right? Like I can see it happening and I feel so out of control to be able to stop it other than voting and, and, you know, protest. So this, I love this idea, especially with what I've been reading and thinking about. And I think where a lot of people's heads are at of let's talk about
Taina Brown she/hers (04:32.845)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:57.876)
little things because none of us have control over the big things. We don't have to march and like force the, you know, Trump to and to actually do what the Supreme Court tells them. We can't, like right now anyway, we don't have that level of one individual isn't starting that revolution probably. But a lot of people doing little acts can build to it. So what do those little acts look like? So I'm really excited. I just wanted to share those quotes because I thought they were so like what a wonderful way to sort of set this up.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:02.07)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:08.79)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:14.173)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:25.362)
Yeah, yeah, so the first one that I wanted to, let me try to pull it up on Instagram because that's where I saw it. Hold on a second. Where did I see it? It was, let me go to my stories. I might have shared it. Hold on.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:45.282)
You know, and we complain about the internet, the truth is about social media. there are, like, this is the reason that we still can't leave it, because we do get great information.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:52.267)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So I saw something shared by the Shabby Creek Cottage on Instagram. And it's called Project Maelstorm. And it's basically the concept is to create chaos through mail delivery to, let's see, what do they say? To the
Becky Mollenkamp (06:19.364)
so Maelstorm, M-A-I-L and M-A-E-L. Wow, aren't they creative?
Taina Brown she/hers (06:22.542)
MAIL, yeah. So emails, the premise is like emails can be deleted, right, or can go to junk. But when you mail something physically, like that takes time. Like they have to process it, they have to... And processing looks like making sure there's nothing potentially hazardous or illegal, right? Because this is going to a government building. They have to open it, like somebody has to sort it. And so the goal is to flood.
the delivery system to just create.
an overabundance of work for people. And this is similar to like the, it feels a lot like that weaponized, what's it called? Fuck. Yes, weaponized incompetence, right? Where you're just like.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:10.305)
and competence.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:16.246)
You're obviously not married to a heterosexual man because you would be far more familiar with the term.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:23.432)
I also, I just have brain fog and I'm running on like, I don't know, 10 hours of sleep for the past five days. yeah, so the goal is to send at least
Collectively, at least collectively, right? This is not on any one community's shoulder to do this. But the White House Daily Mail numbers is about 5,000. So the goal is to at least double that. Double it, triple it, 10 exit, whatever. And what I love about this is that like, once she says like, don't do postcards because
Becky Mollenkamp (07:54.264)
Well, that seems easy.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:08.979)
That's yeah, it's a beard a process
Taina Brown she/hers (08:09.959)
Yeah, because postcards are, what did she say about postcards? They're easier to process, and they don't take up as much space, and they don't feel as serious. The goal is to create processing friction, is what she says. And what I love about this is that we all get junk mail, right? It doesn't have to be a real letter. It can just be.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:13.646)
Well, they're easier to process, I would assume, because there's no
Taina Brown she/hers (08:38.151)
that weekly flyer you got in the mail, and you just put a sticky note on it and said, and just say, please fight for us or whatever. And then you just pop it in an envelope, put a stamp on it. And of course, I was just talking to my wife about the rising cost of stamps, which is a big problem. I was like, I don't know when stamps were like $1 or $2 or something, when a book of stamps was like $3 or $4. No, they're almost $1. They're like $0.70 or $0.80 something cents now.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:01.006)
Oh, I was gonna say, are stamps a dollar now? I knew they were over 50 cents at this point. That's one of those questions I feel like they've asked people in history. How much is a gallon of milk and what does a stamp cost to see how out of touch you are? And that's the amount of privilege I guess I have now because I don't even know what a stamp costs anymore. But that's less privilege and more, I just don't mail things.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:07.996)
Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:15.11)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:19.505)
Yeah.
Yeah, we don't mail a whole lot of things either, but my wife collects stamps.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:26.23)
So does my kid. He's starting to because my dad might. Yeah. Anyway.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:30.215)
So we buy a lot of stamps. I mean, it's gone down a little bit because the cost has become so high, but.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:38.478)
Don't you wish you had bought books and books and books of those forever stamps when they were a lot cheaper?
Taina Brown she/hers (09:42.394)
We have some of them. We have some. Yeah, yeah. So if you've got forever stamps laying around, if you... I'm not advocating that people should steal from their employers, but if...
Becky Mollenkamp (09:54.783)
No, never.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:58.328)
But if you work for the man and some stamps disappeared, things happen. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:02.145)
Well, yeah, things happen. Things happen all the time. But yeah, it doesn't have to take a lot of effort. And the goal is one letter a week for as long as you can. And this is also something that could be fun doing in a group setting. You could just get your friends together. It's basically scrapbooking or vision boarding.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:21.398)
Yeah, well, I'm with your kids as an example of showing what good trouble looks like, right? Because I think that can be hard. And some people are nervous about taking their kids to some of the protests that are going on, which I can understand. Although they're, I would take my kid. I wasn't able to because he had something going on, the one I went to on April 5th, but I would take him. But I also can understand some of the anxiety around it that's not unfounded given the world we live in now.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:28.367)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:48.313)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:49.954)
But this is the kind thing you're doing in your home. And it's a really great way to have that discussion with your child about what good trouble looks like, what it means to civil disobedience in a way that is perfectly legal for now. And that shows that we can still rebel without it having to look like necessarily. And again, I'm not at all opposed to also when it's needed.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:58.287)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:10.383)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:19.79)
violence and other things, but I think it's important to show the ways that we can resist and rebel without that.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:21.253)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can, again, it's group setting, family friendly, you can make it a spaghetti dinner with your people and do that. And I was thinking about it on the way home from the doctor's office today and I was like, I can't wait to get started. And I was like, our mail system here in Baltimore sucks. Like I sent my brother a package for his birthday in December and it just came back to me like two weeks ago.
It's fucking April.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:55.054)
It is not just your issue there though, just so we know. is, it is an intentional dismantling of, I mean, if you've done any reading, if you go back and read about DeJoy, who just is now leaving, but that Trump appointed in his first term and they, it's a position for which you can, it's almost impossible to get rid of them. I mean, Congress could have done more, but anyway, the, the postmaster general is like this sort of independent.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:58.371)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:18.839)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:22.602)
acting officer that's really hard to get rid of. And he was put in by Trump very much purposely to destroy the US Postal Service so that they could do what Republicans want to do on everything privatized, right? They want to take it privatized because they can make money off of it, right? There's profits to be had. We can make, turn this into it because the post office historically has not been a for-profit organization. That's not what it was about. It's a for-loss program because it
Taina Brown she/hers (12:24.322)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:36.514)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:46.313)
Right, it's typically for the people, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:52.142)
Even though stamps are expensive, they still don't cover what it costs to run a system like that. But DeJoy was put in specifically to destroy that system because they want to privatize. And also, what's the other big thing that we use that people are using it for? Mail-in ballots, right? And they want it to destroy voting. It's another way to disenfranchise people. So it's not just where you are and it's not an anomaly. That is, and it's not accidental. All of it's by design.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:06.571)
Hmm. That system. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:16.768)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:18.176)
system, one more example of these very big systemic ways of trying to oppress people. And sometimes people think like, she's male, who cares? Because a lot of us don't use male anymore, but we forget about rural folks for whom the male becomes the lifeline literally to staying alive for medications, for them to be able to exercise their freedom to vote, things that are really important. And so of course it's been happening on purpose. So I think there is something though also poetic then about using that system sort of against them.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:21.308)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:34.143)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:39.506)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:45.181)
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's what I was going to say because I was thinking, was like, how, like, if I, if we did it here, like, wouldn't even, wouldn't even matter because the system already is like so fucked up and mail gets lost or just held onto for months at a time for no fucking reason. But then I was like, that's beside the point. Like that would just.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:05.752)
think it's actually part of the point though, isn't it?
Taina Brown she/hers (14:07.071)
Yeah, yeah, like it would just perpetuate the very weak structure that is in place, which, like you said, that is the point to like, I cannot fucking think today. There's like a word. Exacerbate.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:25.934)
It's all right. It's like to bring it to a head, right? So that it becomes, yeah, exacerbate the problem, to bring it to a head, to punctuate what's going on and sort of force people's hands into discussing what's going on. Because eventually, if enough elderly folks, what we're learning about some of the protests now is when elderly folks start to feel the pinch, they aren't quiet about it, right? These are the Karens of the world. They are happy.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:31.987)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:37.598)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:47.856)
No.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:50.36)
to start getting real mad. They're the ones who have the time to show up at town halls, who have the time to write letters, to make phone calls. They're the ones who will say, I'm not getting my medication. I'm not getting my social security check. I'm not getting, right? And they rely on me also because they also are scared often or hesitant to use technology. They're like, this is now affecting my ability to stay alive, to pay my bills, to get my grandkids their birthday card. This is no good. And that's part of the point, I think, is to...
Taina Brown she/hers (14:51.816)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:02.13)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:05.918)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:17.81)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:19.802)
How do we, when it doesn't affect them, force it to affect them so that they will engage in the ways that politicians tend to listen to? Not to mention all of our politicians are like freaking 70 and 80 years old. And so for them, they also notice it when it's like that.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:34.107)
Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm totally, looking for the other thing on small actions. What do you think about this space trip?
Becky Mollenkamp (15:51.203)
now you're back. Sorry, I don't know if it you or me that was frozen, but...
Taina Brown she/hers (15:54.991)
I don't know. I'm looking for the other posts that had a list of other things. But I just saw something about this all-female flight crew this week. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that? Intermission.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:07.214)
with Gail King and Katy Perry and Jeff Bezos' girlfriend. What do I think about? I think it's utter bullshit and a waste of money, which I know that it is in part or in theory privatized. So it's not tax dollars, but I do not believe there weren't tax dollars because they are getting giant government funds to be able to fund these trips for research and to further, you know, space science because we've cut NASA out of the world.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:37.231)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:38.016)
to do it for joyrides. Like there's no real, because this is, it was truly, there was no science being done. Everything I've heard about and read about it, there was no science being done whatsoever. There's nothing about this trip that was to further anything for mankind. It was basically a joyride. And Gayle King was, you know, I've heard her saying like, everyone basically should have this opportunity because it changes your life and I'll never be the same. That's love. Thank you.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:47.707)
No.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:01.551)
You know what would change my life? Universal health care.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:05.133)
That's a lovely idea, Gail King, but also you're a millionaire, a multimillionaire. I don't know what she makes, but I know she's a multimillionaire. Her best friend's a billionaire. Like these are not the people, and Katy Perry's a millionaire, and Jeff Bezos' girlfriend, I don't know what she earns, but her partner is one of the richest men in the world. Like these are not the people that need opportunity. And if it takes that for them to realize life is valuable and precious and amazing, then
Taina Brown she/hers (17:27.907)
No, no.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:34.99)
Clearly money's not the answer in life to happiness, joy, or anything else. The whole thing pisses me off and yeah, like I could go on and on, but it's just this utter waste of money, time, resources, everything. yeah, stop. If you care, exactly. Pay your employees better.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:37.879)
It's yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:47.278)
Yeah, I saw.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:52.506)
Play your employees, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give them better wages, better working hours, better benefits.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:57.518)
Stop making them have to run so fast that they're getting into car accidents because they have to deliver X number of packages and X amount of time like
Taina Brown she/hers (18:05.026)
And also stop monopolizing other industries. Like why do you need to buy a healthcare system? Like the one medical.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:13.366)
I know why he needs to. Yeah, that's a good one.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:15.201)
information.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:19.961)
I saw something on, what? She's a prophet? Yeah. I saw something on TikTok. I haven't verified this. I don't know if it's completely true, but that flight costs a million dollars a minute.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:20.558)
Profit? Profit? Money? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:35.406)
to run it.
I mean, that's nothing to him though, which is disgusting.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:40.601)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:45.312)
Yeah, I mean, those kinds of things make me so mad. And that's why I just try to avoid a lot of that kind of news at this point, because and the fact that the media participate, I don't know, I guess part of what we've talked about media criticism, media critique, being more critical about your media consumption. But I'm just disgusted by the way the media participates in.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:51.097)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:08.482)
Yeah, I think.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:09.262)
And they always have a degree, but it has gotten so much worse because media is now so corporate and just as bad about making money. they're not just participating in the system, they are perpetuating the system. And it's gross. Where's the critical thought?
Taina Brown she/hers (19:13.09)
So out of hand, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:26.776)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:28.898)
from mainstream media, won't happen. why can't there be critical thought for mainstream media to ask these kinds of questions? Like instead of asking Gail King, like, what was it like and what are you gonna take from it? And whoever be like, why should you be there? Why should this mission even happen? What was the point? Do you think there are better ways this money could have been used? Right, like I think asking those kinds of questions and I don't know, mean, again, I haven't consumed a lot of the news, but I could almost guarantee mainstream outlets aren't asking those questions.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:33.656)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:55.316)
No, they're not. They're not. actually, so the flight was yesterday morning and she's a CBS News anchor. And that's what my wife likes to watch in the morning. So we were talking about how like they probably put her on that flight for a variety of reasons, but also because she's such a well-known news anchor. Like the entire news show that's like three hours long was about this flight.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:15.832)
course. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:21.794)
Like there was hardly anything else that they covered when they usually cover so much. And it was just all these different like space experts and people who have been there before and astronauts and engineers and scientists and celebrities weighing in on it. And it was just, it was disgusting.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:25.411)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:36.374)
And trying to talk about the historic nature of it, and I'm gonna use big giant air quotes around historic nature of it, because this is all woman crew, also big quotes around crew, because they're not a crew, they're just tourists. It was all women tourists on a ridiculously expensive 11 second or whatever it was, 11 minute tourist trip. But this is where intersectionality to me really matters and where there isn't enough of that critique in the media, because you could focus on it being all women.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:48.194)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:58.069)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:04.928)
and turning this into then some historic important leap forward for women or whatever, right? And even the fact that Gayle King's a black woman, like all of those things can be true, but if we don't explore all of these other issues around oppression and marginalization, then this story becomes that and goes into the record books as this historic moment for women when the truth is it's not remotely a historic moment for women, right? But for exactly what you said, what about universal healthcare for women?
Taina Brown she/hers (21:22.313)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:34.126)
What about childcare for women? What about maternity leave for women? You know, all those other issues that would actually benefit women instead we're spending this money on a tourist trip to space for 11 minutes that accomplishes nothing. And it's disgusting to me that this will be like, it will go down because of the way the mainstream media handles it, including like the New York Times, the, you know, the paper of record, because they're going to turn it into a story about a historic journey for women. That's what.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:35.975)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:43.816)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:48.841)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:01.792)
will be remembered when there's no amount of analysis or critique about the fact that this is how does this help women at all?
Taina Brown she/hers (22:03.465)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:09.36)
It doesn't. It doesn't. And it's a distraction. I mean, I know this has been planned for months, but it's a distraction from all the things that are going on that are really affecting women and Black women and trans women and Asian women, like the SAVE Act and other things. So I can't find the.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:16.334)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:28.834)
Which, and by the way, Gail King's part of the mainstream media. And how delightful would it be if she had, instead of going on this journey into space, used the invitation for it as a moment to provide that kind of critique and analysis about why she said no, why she's not gonna do it. She can't do that because her bestie, God love Oprah, you know, but like her besties also.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:32.307)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:44.308)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:55.756)
as much a part of the problem as anyone else by being a multi-billionaire. And I know she does good things. So we have to separate, you know, being good from being ethical or from being good from ethically having the money. Like it's a systemic failure, not just an over failure or any billionaire, but like when you're engaged in living in the world in which she's living, I don't think Gail Keane can provide that.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:57.978)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:05.982)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:11.828)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:21.192)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:21.782)
analysis, which is probably part of the reason she's chosen. And it just makes me sad. The whole thing, clearly, even though I haven't watched the news about it, I'm pissed and have thoughts about it. Especially from that feminist perspective, just because I hate these kinds of things when they happen, where people make this conscious decision to make something seem historic and important for a marginalized group. And this is not the only time this happens.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:31.412)
You have a lot of feelings about it, a lot of thoughts and feelings.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:51.17)
When in fact, right. And when in fact you do any amount of analysis and you're like, this is not remotely a benefit or a historic and good moment for this group of people. In fact, it's just masquerading is that it's packaging that little bow so that you can use that angle when in fact you're hiding the fact that this is, it's not remotely helpful, right? And sometimes it's detrimental. So anyway, yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:51.42)
It happens all the time.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:57.982)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:06.525)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:14.706)
Yeah, yeah. It's a smokescreen. And the thing is with me, and I say this all the time, it's like, if you're gonna be that horrible person, just say it with your fucking chest. Like, don't try to pretend like this is some feminist moment. It's fucking not. It's not.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:32.652)
Yeah, no. Just be Gail King and say, you know what? I thought it'd be cool. They're paying for it. Why the fuck not? Fine, say that. And if you're Jeff Bezos, yeah, Jeff Bezos can say, I'm doing it because I want you guys to pay attention to this thing that I'm doing so I can get more government contracts for this thing that I'm doing.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:38.278)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for everybody, for everybody.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:46.844)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm doing it just because I can. Okay, great. Now I know where you stand. Now I know where you stand.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:52.238)
Yeah, well, we know where you stand, but now at least you're being honest about where you stand. But people can't be honest. And I think part of it is they have to fool themselves. I think Gail probably has to fool herself into believing that this, she did it because it was historic and because it was important and because it mattered. She needs to fool herself and to believe that so that she can sit with herself and feel okay with her values. And I don't just accuse her because we all do this to varying degree, right? I have to convince myself.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:56.616)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:08.226)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:18.083)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:20.854)
like of reasons why I can stay with Amazon instead of making some other switch that would be more uncomfortable and more difficult or whatever the things are, the little choices that we make every day, we all do it. So like, this is not just me being in a glass house throwing stones. Like I recognize I'm also in the glass house.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:31.449)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:37.451)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And just to be clear, we're, like, we're not specifically singling out Gail Keene. She's just a name that, one, I think both you and I are most familiar with, and the name that I brought up because we watch CBS News in our home.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:44.824)
Katy Perry!
Becky Mollenkamp (25:53.55)
Well, the only reason I'm interested is because I feel like as a news person that she had an additional kind of responsibility in of the three women that I know that were there. I mean, Jeff Bezos' girlfriend, as far as I know, she's just Jeff Bezos' girlfriend. Maybe she has some career I don't know about, but I know nothing about her. Katy Perry is a musician and I think, you know, there are there is a responsibility of that platform. But Gail just being from the news media and specifically as talking about like how the media has covered this is problematic. But frankly, it could have been any three women and I would have had the same feelings.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:58.831)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:05.519)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:15.64)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:19.074)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:23.298)
Yeah, was six of them total. I don't even know. I don't even know. All I know is, I didn't even know Jeff Bezos' girlfriend was on there. I knew Katy Perry and Gil King. I don't know who the, I didn't know the other four.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:23.864)
Unless it was three scientists, perhaps. who were the other three? Were they scientists? Yeah. But as far as I had to say, wasn't.
And then I knew his girlfriend. Maybe the other three were scientists, as far as I know, they weren't doing any science. They're just two. I mean, this is what's next, right? Space tourism is, is hap, it's already happening. It's what's coming and happening. You know, eventually we're to have something that happened like the submarine of, you know, people going down to look at the Titanic that imploded and these billionaires and very rich people die. And it's going to happen with space. One of these tourist trips is going to be the one that.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:42.368)
No, they weren't. They weren't. I don't think any of them were scientists.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:05.099)
we lose these very wealthy people and suddenly people are gonna be questioning it and is it really worth it? Yeah, and all I can say is no, it's not worth it, but it was never worth it and it's stupid when we have, and this is why Elon Musk and all his spaceship drives me nuts. It's like we have humans right here on this planet suffering in this moment that you could help with the money you're wasting trying to figure out how to build a colony on Mars for rich people. But it just shows a real lack of compassion, empathy, care.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:09.982)
and prayers.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:27.798)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:33.802)
Yeah. Sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to. I'm looking again for the post. I still cannot find it. Fuck. But I do remember, I vaguely remember a couple of things. It was like, here are some anti-fascist things that you can do over the next week or something like that that are really easy. here's what I want to say first before I dig into my brain to try to remember what some of those things were.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:33.91)
See now you got me riled up. Give me a few more things I can do.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:40.59)
Hmm. Well, my moms were doing postcards.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:00.716)
Again, when we talk about being anti-fascist, yes, it's an ideology. It's definitely an ideology, a philosophy, a point. It's very specific political ideology. However, it's not anything that you do that is in contradiction to fascism.
or capitalism is anti-fascist or anti-capitalist. So mending your clothes instead of buying new clothes, anti-capitalist, right? Getting super involved in some kind of community organization or like the cleanup crew that cleans the neighborhood parks or whatever, like learning about your local ecosystem, anti-fascist, right? Because anti-capitalist, because one of the premises of like...
or some of the premises of fascism and capitalism is like destruction for the sake of progress, right? And like isolating people from their neighbors. So just want to preface that for people who are unclear about what that means. So when we say you should be anti-fascist, we don't say you should be like throwing bricks and windows, unless it comes to that. then we'll have that conversation. So a few of the things that were on that list were like take an elderly neighbor to their doctor's appointment.
Right? Mend your clothes instead of buying something new. Have dinner with your friends. Fuck, I'm trying to remember some of the other things. I hate that I couldn't find it.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:42.262)
Well, let me try and think. These may not be the ones you're talking about, but another thing that comes to mind is like buying local and from folks with marginalized identities whenever possible. Right. So like if, if you can go support a local small business that's owned by a regular person, trying to survive in the world of Walmarts and Costcos and whatever.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:51.722)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:57.652)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:04.241)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like join like your local CSA. And I forget what CSA stands for, but basically it's, yeah, it's basically a local farm that has surplus. And so they sell boxes of like produce, sometimes meat, cheeses, and dairy to the community. And it's on a subscription basis. And if you can't afford it on your own, do it with your friends, right? Do it with some of your friends. And you can split the cost, and then you can share the resources. I think.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:09.71)
Mm-hmm. Unity something.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:32.034)
Join a co-op, which is similar.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:33.35)
Join a co-op, yeah, yeah. Give something away for free. Do something pro bono was on the list. So if you own a business, decide what you have the capacity to give away for free. A lot of people are getting laid off. And one thing that I've seen on LinkedIn recently that I've really been loving and have been thinking about is there are people who are career coaches or recruiters that have like
have been in recruiting and talent acquisition for a lifetime. They're like, if you recently got laid off, I have 10 spots open to look at your resume and just kind of give you some pointers and whatever. Or here's a resume that worked for me when I was trying to find a job that made it really easy. And so little things like that, I think, any time we are trying to help people with no strings attached, that's the caveat.
This cannot be something that has strings attached to it. It cannot be a strictly transactional engagement. It cannot be a strictly transactional act. It has to be, go ahead. No, go ahead.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:43.726)
There's also, sorry. No, I'm sorry, I cut you off. Just think about clothing swaps also, like swaps, like in your own community, whether it's a community of friends, your neighborhood, your kid's school community, hosting like a swap meet sort of a thing where there's no entry fee because that again goes back to like, then you're expecting something. Some places do it for money as a fundraiser and that can also work for, but what we're talking about here is more.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:50.534)
Mm.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:59.526)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:07.686)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:10.296)
doing it just because it's a good thing to do. So no entry fee and everyone like for every item of clothing you bring, you can take that many or you don't even have to have it that be just bring what you can and take what you need. And some people can bring more and not take any but having people bring so it's basically a garage sale without prices, right? Where everyone just take things that they need. And that I've been to some of those kinds of things and they're really, it's really great. Cause like
Taina Brown she/hers (32:12.454)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:20.079)
and take what you need.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:27.471)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:33.616)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:34.222)
That's just trash. How often do you take up the goodwill because it doesn't fit anymore, but it still has tags on it. Or, you you just never used that thing because you thought you would, or somebody gave it to you. And for someone else, it might be exactly the thing they need. Sorry, I totally cut you off, but yeah, it was that.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:38.469)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:47.265)
No, no, it's fine. It's fine. But it also brings to mind something that Robin Wall Kimmer wrote in her latest book, The Service Berry. Have you read it yet? Okay. Well, yeah, she talks about in her neighborhood, one of her neighbors, they have a farm. She lives in a really rural area, so it's all farms. But when they have an abundance of crop,
Becky Mollenkamp (32:55.918)
I haven't. I haven't. I want to, but I haven't. I have it in my audio books to listen to.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:15.279)
they put a little free farm stand on the side of the main road. And they'll just put their produce there or whatever. And people will drive by and just take what they want to take. And it's fresh food. The farmers who do it, they already have what they need. They're not trying to make money off of this because this is coming out of their abundance. And so think if you, well, for me, if I'm
I have to remind myself that if I'm trying to do something, it has to come out of my abundance, not out of my scarcity. So that way I make sure I'm taken care of. But also, I have to decide. I have to figure out where that line is. And I can't do that unless I know what I need first. And so it's really important in the times that we are living in for each of us on an individual level, but also on a communal level. You as an individual.
What are your needs? And are they getting met? And then if not, how can they get met? By doing things like resource sharing and knowledge sharing and things like that within your community. But then also as a community, are your community's needs? What are your community's needs? And how are they getting met? And then you can figure out where there is scarcity, real scarcity, not just imagined or manufactured scarcity, but also where there's abundance where you didn't know.
there might have been abundance because you haven't evaluated before, So just want to throw that out there. What's one anti-fascist thing you think you'll do in the next week?
Becky Mollenkamp (34:55.32)
Ooh, I don't know.
the next week. I mean, for me right now, there's a lot of education, which I also feel does feel anti fascist in learning, because I'm getting ready to start a new podcast. Do I need it? No, don't lecture me, but I don't care because I am in this place where I'm like, I just want more creative expression or outlets for myself in the time that aren't specifically about news. And I'm so it's called assigned reading and myself and again. Yes, I know. You know, we'll be a guest at some point.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:10.924)
Hahaha!
Taina Brown she/hers (35:18.38)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:24.418)
I guess I'll have to finish the form.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:28.238)
But we're going to read just really, to me, it's just really interesting essays from all sorts of really great, mostly feminist thought leaders. And I've started reading some of those and just reading those kinds of things that feels inspiring and feels motivating and also helps me better understand ancestry and history and lineage, feels really good and feels a bit like I'm like an anti-fascist exercise. And then talking about this with others and spreading some of that message.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:41.654)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:54.658)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:57.23)
I know that's not exactly what you're talking about, because what you're talking about feels okay. Because I mean, mutual lady, I don't know at the moment, although we are talking about like, here's a small example too, with just our kids in our little community here that are playing sports together a lot, we're talking about creating some sort of lending resource, because like I just shared my kid's shoes have gotten too small, his friend needed new shoes, they had an extra pair of shoes somebody had to get cleats.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:59.56)
No, it is though. It is though. It can be.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:09.855)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:23.758)
that somebody had given them that were too big. And so like just the swapping within our community of things that otherwise I would either spend a ridiculous amount of money for shoes that these kids wear for one seat, like eight games, right? Because their feet grow so fast. Or that I would have to spend a lot of time on Marketplace Train 5 and gas driving. And so we're starting to get a little more structure around that so that we can talk to each other about what size our kids are and what they need and that kind of stuff. So I think that may be more aligned with what you're talking about.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:35.562)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:45.376)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:49.994)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:52.29)
But also I feel like for me right now, education and just like creative outlet in a way for me feels like resistance to what's going on because I'm not letting it defeat me. Like I had been and I'm trying to stop that. What about you?
Taina Brown she/hers (36:59.999)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:03.429)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all of those things count for sure. Well, I'm going to tell you in a second, but you said reading and using your local library was also on that list, which I think is so important these days, too, in making sure you have a library card, you use their resources, and all of that. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:13.122)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:21.72)
Can I just toot my own horn? Not really a toot because it's also embarrassing that it took me this long, but I finally this year left Audible, which is an Amazon product for audiobooks. I should have left long ago, but it's one of those executive functioning things where these little tasks really weigh me down. But I finally did it. I'm using Libby through my local library and I have never been reading more. I've never been more excited to read more.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:31.506)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:35.208)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:45.452)
And like, I feel really good about what I've done, just that simple shift. So anyone who's still using Audible or any other kind, like if you're not getting your local audio books from the library, I think part of it was originally I just thought like, I can't read physical books, I don't have that time. But you can also do audio books for your local library and holy smokes, like I get, it'll tell me there's a long wait, but I'll skip the line and get really quick. Like it's amazing. So I highly, highly recommend Libby.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:58.238)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:08.848)
Okay, yeah, I stopped using Audible. Also, I haven't completely made the switch over to Libby. And I am embarrassed to say I don't have a local library card because I just, I know I need to get one. I need to get one. It just, it hasn't been a priority since we moved up here like a couple of years ago. Yeah, I need to renew my passport. I need to renew my passport. So a couple anti-fascist things that I'm going to try to do over the next week is,
Becky Mollenkamp (38:17.934)
Get one, it's so easy. Walk in and...
Becky Mollenkamp (38:24.142)
I know, we'll work on it. I don't have her passport and I should, so I get it. Yeah, mine's well expired.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:38.065)
Well, one of my goals is to on the same train as like getting away from audible. It's like, and this is kind of, it's not selfish, but like, you know, I've been into fanfic lately and so I'm just like, want to spend a lot of time on AO3, which is Archive of Our Own, which is like a major platform for writers, creators who write fanfiction.
And so I want to do more reading from that level as opposed to the more commercial type of book buying or book borrowing or things like that. I do need to go to the library. I don't know if I can do that this week. But the other thing is there's a tool library here, tool, T-O-O-L, here in the city that
Our realtor actually told us about when we first purchased a home and then because of the situation we were in with all the medical stuff, just totally forgot about it. And then I came across it on Instagram again the other day and I'm like, oh God, we need to join that. And so there is like a small membership fee to join because they have to house the tools and they obviously have to replenish tool supplies and things like that. it's one, it's tiered, right? So you can enter at the price point that makes sense for you.
And even then, it's not super expensive. You can become a member for as little as $5 a month. But then you don't have to buy tools. It's a shared resource for the community. So if you need tools for your house, if you need tools for gardening, they also have classes on how to use certain tools and how to do things. They also have Mend-it days where you can bring things, clothing.
small appliances, things like that, and somebody will fix it for free. So yeah, we're going to join that.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:39.318)
And ask your local library. People don't always realize the things that are available through local libraries and every library system is different and what they offer is different. But a lot of them have not just books and not just audio books, but they also have some of them have what they call like a library of things where it's like puzzles, which a lot of libraries have, but you can even get like musical instruments if your kid's going to be in instrument in band and you don't want to, you can't afford to buy them a tuba.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:01.079)
wow.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:05.082)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:05.728)
of them will have that where you're not having to pay because renting those things is expensive. Sewing machines, some places even have tools. like it just depends. Libraries have different things that people don't always think about. And a lot of them also have things like book clubs and different kinds of activities. Our local library, we can take our kid to so many activities around like Legos and Pokemon and all kinds of things that are free. Where going and taking your kid to after school activities and stuff is really expensive.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:09.955)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:19.802)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:25.599)
wow.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:31.866)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:32.984)
So there are just so many things with local libraries that I think people don't even know, but finding other resources like that in your community, search like library of things or tool library, resource libraries, things like that, and then your city name. And you might be, especially if you, the larger the city you live in, the more resources you'll have, which is also a problem, obviously. But look, because there's more than you think and local libraries are.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:47.054)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:56.729)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:57.998)
so undersold, like they're just so underappreciated for what is available when we just ask. And going and asking your local library, like, what are some things I can get here that I might not know? Obviously you can get DVDs and CDs. We always go and rent video games for our son before we ever will buy anything. Because I am tired of buying games that he says he wants. And he's like, I don't really like this game. It's like, OK, so we rent them and give him a chance to see does he actually like them.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:59.842)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:04.386)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:09.368)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:17.57)
Hmm. And then he's like, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:26.445)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:26.542)
and they have so many games. There's just so much. Like now I want to go to the library today and just hang out. I love libraries.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:31.298)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you are in an area where there's not a whole lot of these kinds of resources readily available, maybe start something with your friends. Go in on purchasing a lawnmower together, right? And then you just share it. Or if you have a specific skill, if you know how to mend clothes, but maybe your friends don't, maybe you offer that as something that you can do for your friends. And then they offer something that they can do.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:59.928)
Maybe they mow your lawn, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:00.834)
For the circle, yeah, yeah. So there are ways to tap into resources that are already available, but then there are also ways to creatively create those resources for ourselves, whether your friend group is three people or 30 people.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:17.516)
It feels like we keep going back to mutual aid and people may be like, you've talked about these things, but it's because it's that important. And it really is, I feel like in a lot of ways it's at the heart of what we're talking about when we talk about, when people say like, what's the alternative to capitalism? Like, I think our brains, for many of us, it's all we've ever known. We've been made to believe it is the only thing and the best thing. And so people will often have a hard time picturing what an economy looks like when it's not rooted in that, in capitalism.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:24.184)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:45.823)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:45.932)
And I think mutual aid provides such a clear answer to what it can look like, right? And it's not to say that there can't still be commerce, but it's re-imagining what commerce looks like and how it exists. And just think, like if we were doing more of that, then it would force, as an example with tools, suddenly John Deere and Skill and these big giant corporations that are making these things, they're gonna make less money.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:51.839)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:15.896)
And they're gonna have to figure out what that means, right? Because we're making our tools last longer, we're sharing items, and that changes corporate structures. have to learn to, like, profits just aren't what they once were, and they have to shift. We can't force them to shift while we're still using, while we're still buying into what they're doing, right? And we can't escape it entirely, but we can start to shift our relationship with it, so then that begins to shift it.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:18.613)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:35.253)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:41.179)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not shifting a relationship with it is giving it permission to continue to function as it does.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:52.48)
It makes me think of that quote that I shared earlier again from this book that I'm reading. It's not the same thing, but it's that like people know and then they choose not to know. Right. And it's like, once you know everything that happens from the time you know after then becomes the choice. Before that, was ignorance. And I don't mean that in like stupid anyway. Ignorance, not knowing. And when you don't know, you don't know. But as soon as you do know, like, there is an alternative. there is another way of doing this.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:08.725)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:14.815)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:18.841)
Now you have responsibility.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:20.748)
Yeah, and everything after that does become a choice. And then you have to start to live with that choice. And by, again, going back to like us all making, being in glass houses, like there are choices that we still make that are not, that we know we could make a better choice for whatever reason. And we have to live with those. And I know I have them. You know, there are choices I make. There are times I buy fast fashion. There are times that I'm, you know, using a plastic straw when I could just use a reusable straw. there are, these are little things.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:40.104)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:49.361)
Yeah, there are a lot of little things, but I think in the context, you have to take what your context looks like on a day-by-day basis.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:51.085)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:55.746)
Yeah. but it's also knowing that we can't make all the right choices all the time and we can't shift all at once. And it does take time. Eventually. I hope that I get to enough of a habitualized place where I'm always using my reusable straw because I have them and I do a lot of times, but other times I'm like, I forgot it or whatever. Right. Some of it is just habitualizing yourself into a new way of showing up. And so that can take time and I keep myself up over it, or I can just say like, okay, I'm, I'm a work in progress as we all are.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:13.35)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:20.018)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:24.943)
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:26.871)
Anyway.
I talked more than than you today and I hope that everyone knows I know that. I feel like I need to acknowledge it because I also feel like well I know you're having brain fog and you're tired and stuff so I did feel like I hope it's okay and that it doesn't seem like I'm trying to monopolize the conversation. I can feel that you're like like you're just like oh I'm trying.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:35.057)
I'm also just really tired. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:46.362)
No, not at all.
Yeah, no, not at all. I think you noticed the deer in the headlights look in my eyes when I'm just like, don't have, I don't know where I'm at.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:56.556)
I could see where the thought faded off into oblivion and then you're like, back. I mean, we've all had that moment. And then when you get into your forties and to fifties, you're like, boy, life becomes nothing but those moments. And the thought was there and now it's out there and I can't pull it back.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:08.741)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:12.367)
And now it's not. Yeah, it becomes the norm. It becomes the norm. All right.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:16.706)
Yeah. All right. Well, hopefully it still made sense what we talked about. Yeah. Thank you.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:20.983)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you.