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Finding ways to make your impact is tough. Brett Hollenbeck interviews a wide span of people to learn how they make their impact and the journey they took to find it. Spanning national best-selling authors to local community members who are taking on big projects making a difference, Brett covers similar topics in interview form. Each episode contains powerful information to help you grow personally and professionally, and find your path to make your impact!
Brett (00:01.003)
Hello and welcome to another exciting and meaningful episode of The Impact Code, where today's topic is all about defying the odds and climbing beyond life's greatest challenges. I'm honored today to host Sean Swarner, a beacon of hope and resilience. Sean's story is not just about survival, it's a testament to the human spirit's indomitable will. Diagnosed with two terminal cancers in his youth and given only days to live, Sean not only triumphed over death, but also set himself on a path to make history.
Against all odds and with only one functioning lung, Sean became the first cancer survivor to conquer Mount Everest, the highest peak in the world. But he didn't stop there. His insatiable thirst for adventure led him to achieve the explorer's grand slam, reaching the North and South Poles and scaling the highest mountains on each of the seven continents. A feat that redefines what's possible. Beyond his breathtaking adventure, Sean's journey is a beacon of inspiration for anyone facing their own Everest. His work with the Cancer Climber Association, his motivational speaking,
and his authorship all pivot on one core belief. You have more control over your life than you think, even in the toughest times. So get ready to be moved and motivated by Sean Swarner's incredible journey from cancer survivor to world renowned adventurer. Let's explore how he transformed unimaginable challenges into a life of purpose, hope, and endless possibility. Please join me in welcoming Sean Swarner to the Impact Code. Sean, welcome.
SEAN SWARNER (01:25.997)
Wow, Brett, that was actually, that was a really nice intro. I appreciate that so much. And, you know, it's funny whenever anybody mentions the Explorers Grand Slam, which you said is the culmination of the seven summits and the two polls, I think to myself, man, it sounds like a Denny's breakfast platter. I wish they named it something else.
Brett (01:44.779)
It really does. It really does. It sounds so I wasn't familiar with this before and ended up doing a little research and at the surface it doesn't sound like it would be what it is. The title doesn't begin to convey the magnitude of that challenge.
SEAN SWARNER (02:01.325)
Not at all. I mean, it should be something like the impossible, the world's impossible challenge or, you know, the, the nine summits of the world or whatever it might be something different than, you know, you think you're going to get to the North Pole and have like a side of hash browns and bacon and eggs on the, up there waiting for you.
Brett (02:17.035)
Exactly, exactly. Well, man, I'm excited for this episode and there's a few reasons for that. One, I think it's going to be so relevant to the people that are tuning in and listening right now because a lot of the people that listen to the show and people including myself are just at a place in life where maybe we're still trying to figure things out, where we're trying to figure out our purpose. We're trying to figure out,
how to make our difference in the world, which is really where the name of the show comes from. And one of the things, Sean, that I've noticed in your work is that you talk consistently about this idea of hope. And so I would love to start today by talking about how do you personally define hope and why do you believe that it's so crucial in overcoming obstacles?
SEAN SWARNER (03:07.661)
You know, it's interesting. A number of years ago, the director of my film on Amazon, he and I put together a podcast. I think we had like three episodes, just him and I online talking. And we called it Helping Others Persevere Every Day. And it kind of, it kind of stuck. I was like, that's so true. You know, everybody needs help. And one of the reasons why is because I have a saying, the human body can live for roughly 30 days without food.
the human condition can sustain itself for about three days without water, but no human alive can live for more than 30 seconds without hope. Without hope, what do we have left? And I'm not just saying, I'm gonna sit in the corner and, oh, I hope I win the lottery. That's probably not gonna happen, especially if I don't get out of that corner and actually go buy a ticket. It's just not gonna happen. But it's having hope that I am worthy of certain things and having hope that life is gonna turn out okay and having hope and faith.
if you can want to combine the two, having hope in and faith in myself, as well as a higher power, whatever you believe. I've been to 70 different countries and seen Buddhism, I've seen Hinduism, I've seen everything you can possibly imagine, but the common thread, I think through all of them, is a belief in something. So you have to continue holding on to that and never lose hope.
Brett (04:32.171)
Yeah. So Sean, when you were going through your initial diagnoses and you were facing this news, what was your immediate response? Like what were the emotions that you felt when you immediately got the news? And did that change for you quickly or was it consistent? What was that journey like for you?
SEAN SWARNER (04:55.917)
Let's go back to when, let's just use an example. Remember back when you were 13, eighth grader, maybe freshmen in high school, 14 years old. When you're getting ready for school, when you're going to school, what were some of your biggest fears?
Brett (05:13.451)
I'd say probably fitting in was one of the biggest ones that was on my mind every day. I wanted people to like me. I wanted to do well also. I wanted to definitely impress my parents and make them proud. And so I saw that through social success, through school success, athletic success.
SEAN SWARNER (05:34.989)
And that's what most people are concerned about. You know, you show up in the cafeteria and you think to yourself, oh my God, where am I going to sit? You know, where are my friends? So you get those butterflies in your stomach. Now let's hypothetically say you're same age, 13, 14 years old, you're 60, 70 pounds overweight, bald from head to toe, looking at yourself in the mirror, your hair's falling out because you're going through chemotherapy.
And while your friends are getting ready for school that same day, you hop in the shower and you're now on your hands and knees pulling chunks of hair out of the drain so the water can go down. Literally having to fight for your life, bawling your eyeballs out, not concerned about what other people think. Because they don't know that you're literally fighting for your life. Being terrified to close your eyes at night.
because you don't know if your eyes are gonna open the next day. I developed a completely different perspective on life than most people. I don't care about making a fool out of myself. If people are gonna judge me, that's great. What I say is about me, what you hear is about you. How you're gonna judge me is a reflection of how you feel about yourself anyhow. But looking at myself in the mirror as the 60 or 70 pound overweight troll,
Brett (06:41.643)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (06:59.597)
I couldn't recognize who was looking back at me because I was an athlete, like you mentioned, I was worried about fitting into a point, but I was more concerned about literally living and enjoying every day because I didn't know if I was gonna wake up the next day or not.
Brett (07:21.259)
What a perspective, man. That is, I don't know that I have been through a situation that put that kind of mental pressure on me still to this point in my life. A question of literally life or death. And to go through that at that age, I imagine was...
both meaningful and difficult for you. So as you're thinking, okay, am I gonna open my eyes tomorrow? Like you're literally fighting for your life. Where do you find the hope in that situation?
SEAN SWARNER (08:04.109)
You know, human beings are creatures of habit. We are a representation of repetition. You know, I'm assuming everybody who woke up this morning had a pattern that they repeated yesterday morning, you know? Wake up, drink some water, maybe exercise, maybe do some crunches, push -ups. Maybe they just go brush their teeth, they turn on the coffee, maybe they rub their eyes, maybe they... Whatever it might be, you have a morning routine.
built consciously or subconsciously. My routine when I was going through the first cancer over and over was, like I said, terrifying at night. Every morning I woke up, it was like a new opportunity, a new day. But I eventually got used to being comfortable in the uncomfortable. So initially it was absolutely terrifying. Did I know what was gonna happen to me? Absolutely not.
But day in, day out, day in, day out, I eventually got used to it because that's my normal. It's a completely different scenario, but people who drive to work every day, they get stuck in traffic every day. Initially, when you first took that drive to your office, you're sitting there like, oh my God, this is awful. I don't know how I could eventually get used to it.
Brett (09:28.875)
Yeah, yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (09:31.277)
is the same thing.
Brett (09:33.291)
Yeah, and it sort of makes me think about this idea, which you may or may not be probably are familiar with the sort of stoic philosophy of memento mori, of remember death. And it's this practice of remembering that we're not guaranteed tomorrow. We're not even guaranteed the rest of today. So if that's the case, how would I live right now into the highest version of myself? And it's incredible to me that that,
was sort of thrust upon you, you know, that idea was sort of ever -present in your life. But I do think the more that we can have that sort of fresh mindset every day, the more we can be intentional about how we're living our day -to -day and remove ourselves from that autopilot that we tend to get into.
SEAN SWARNER (10:23.821)
It's interesting, when you make decisions, and it can be anything, how do you make proper decisions?
SEAN SWARNER (10:36.813)
What factors do you come into play?
Brett (10:36.907)
It's
Yeah, I think your values come into play. I think the people that you're close to come into play. But sometimes I think we do get into these autopilot decisions where it's almost like we don't even think about those things. We just, we go with the first thing that pops into our mind. So I think it depends for me on how intentional I am with that decision. Does that make sense?
SEAN SWARNER (11:01.805)
Absolutely. And you hit on one of the key words I was going to say, values, your personal core values. So if you go back to that shower scene that I mentioned, not like the eee, eee, eee, but the shower scene of me being, you know, 13 years old fighting for my life. One of the things I did was I projected into the future about a month, two months, and I thought about...
And I pictured what my parents, so my mom, my dad, and my family, my younger brother, what their lives would look like without me in it.
Brett (11:41.835)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (11:43.853)
And that was probably one of the biggest deciding factors to continue fighting for my life. I couldn't have my parents lose their firstborn son. And I also decided in that same moment, I didn't want to focus on not dying. I wanted to focus on living. You know, how many people go into meetings or go throughout their entire lives, their days thinking, oh my God, I don't want that to happen. Don't let that happen. Please don't. And it happens.
Brett (12:03.083)
Hmm.
Brett (12:13.483)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (12:14.029)
Surely, surely it's going to happen. It's because that's where your energy and focus and attention is. But if you focus it on what you want as opposed to the avoidance of what you don't want, you're going to be so much happier because you're focusing on positive things as opposed to avoiding negative things.
Brett (12:33.451)
Yeah, this is really fascinating me that you've brought this up. This isn't something that we had previously talked about or planned, but this is something that has actually been the key thing that I have been working on in myself over the past month or two is really instead of looking at what am I trying to avoid instead of being, hey, I don't want to be this person. It's like, no, who do I want to be? What is the inspiring vision of me in the future that's worth focusing on every single day?
that makes it worth getting out of bed every single day, whether that's being a role model to my kids, whether that's being there for my team because they need me to succeed and to lead and to step into tough conversations sometimes. And then pushing towards that with more excitement and momentum because that vision is expiring. It's not avoidance. It's like, it's a dream.
SEAN SWARNER (13:25.933)
You know, I've never done this before on any podcast, any TV show, anything. What just, let's see, let's see how this goes over. What are three of your biggest personal core values?
Brett (13:36.651)
Yeah, let's do it.
Brett (13:42.987)
I would say...
Integrity, so doing, and I would define that as doing what I say I'm going to do, being where I say I'm going to be, showing up as who I say I'm going to be, so integrity. Two would be being a good father, being a role model for my kids is incredibly important to me. I have a seven -year -old and a four -year -old, seven -year -old daughter, four -year -old son. That would be number two. And number three, I would probably put,
And this is one that I put up there because I don't always do well with it is discipline and having the discipline to even when I'm not really feeling like something or even when I, you know, I'm not feeling it to have the discipline to still take the action. I need to show myself that I'm serious about what I'm saying. I'm serious.
SEAN SWARNER (14:32.365)
Got it. Okay, so integrity and what I heard when you were saying being a good father, can we say that's family? So integrity, family and discipline. Knowing those are some of, let's just say they're in the top five, because I put you on the spot. They're your top five, in your top five of your personal core values. They must mean a lot to you.
Brett (14:38.731)
Family, yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (14:58.701)
So when you're making decisions, you're probably thinking, oh, how is this going to affect my children? How is this going to affect my family? How does this really go against my integrity? And am I focused on being disciplined or committed? Right? So now what I want you to do is tell me on an in just a hundred percent completely honest on a scale of one to 10, 10 being the absolute utmost. Like I am doing this at the best of my ability. There is no room for improvement.
Integrity, family and discipline, one being not at all. On a scale of one to 10, how are you actually living integrity day to day?
Brett (15:36.043)
integrity I would give myself currently maybe a six.
SEAN SWARNER (15:42.637)
Okay? And family, one out of ten.
Brett (15:46.443)
I would say seven.
SEAN SWARNER (15:50.285)
discipline.
Brett (15:52.875)
I would say...
SEAN SWARNER (15:56.493)
So it looks obviously the lowest one here was discipline, which in this, the first time I did this, I literally put down family as being a four or five. And it almost brought me to tears. Like, oh my God, I've been through so much. Family means so much to me. How am I ignoring this? It's because I wasn't being mindful of how I was making decisions. So if I'm looking at your integrity, your family, your discipline, obviously there's room for improvement. So no one, please don't.
Brett (16:13.739)
Yeah.
Brett (16:18.379)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (16:24.941)
If anyone else is doing this, don't get depressed. This is an amazing start, right? This is the starting point. This is, we'll get to it later, this is your base camp going up Everest, right? You want to reach 10 this summer. What I'm seeing here is you have family, you have integrity. Those two need to have discipline.
Brett (16:31.243)
Yeah.
Brett (16:36.011)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brett (16:46.315)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (16:47.149)
to help feed those other two core values. So if you're living discipline right now at a five, what's one thing you could do today to focus on that? Because a lot of times what happens is people get these programs, they do these things, they get these books and they're like, oh my God, I have 20 things to do today. And now they get this giant checklist and you throw it out the window after the first week because it's just not sustainable. What is sustainable?
Brett (16:50.763)
Yeah, yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (17:15.821)
is building on habits and making new habits and habit stacking. So just pick one thing today that'll help you focus on discipline. That one thing then will help you focus on your family. What's one thing that you can help focus on your integrity? Just those three things. And once those become a habit, then pick three more and then pick three more and you'll slowly move up. Like no one changes overnight unless you have something traumatic happen to you. You're like, oh my God, my life needs to change.
Brett (17:18.827)
Yeah.
Brett (17:42.603)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (17:44.461)
You know, I've been a smoker for 10 years and now I was just diagnosed with lung cancer. Guess what? I'm not smoking tomorrow. You know, done. But doing it this way, it builds in new habits. So now you have three things, three areas where you can start focusing. Integrity, family, and discipline. Now when you start making decisions, like, okay, how is this going to affect my family? How is this helping me support my integrity? Am I being disciplined?
Brett (17:50.859)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brett (18:04.267)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (18:13.485)
No I'm not? Okay, well then that probably brings down my integrity a little bit.
Brett (18:19.179)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (18:20.141)
So when we're mindful of how we're making decisions, because our brains make decisions all the time, right now our hearts are beating, we're breathing, our eyes are blinking. If we had conscious control over all those, our brains would freak out. We're making thousands of decisions every second. But the ones that we're mindful of and we can pay attention to that relate back to our choices, help us become who we want to be.
Brett (18:34.091)
Right, yeah.
Brett (18:45.931)
Yeah, I love that. I love that perspective. And I think for me, you know, discipline right now, I think the biggest area that I'm lacking discipline is really just dietary. You know, I feel like I've really gotten my fitness on track. I've been relatively disciplined with work and making sure that I'm moving projects forward. But for some reason, like the outlet for me for stress sometimes tends to be like food. And a lot of times it's
more processed food or eating out because it's more convenient. And I meal prepped for like four years. So it's not like I don't know how to do it. It's not like I don't have the recipes. It's really just the discipline to actually take the action there to make that happen. So that's the biggest thing that kind of came up for me there.
SEAN SWARNER (19:31.885)
Amazing and let's let's go back to that kid who was on the bottom of the shower floor fighting for his life when he was focused on Living as opposed to not dying How many times have you gone to the refrigerator and told yourself or you gone out you like I don't want to eat that And you do so as opposed to focusing on Don't eat unhealthily focus on eating healthy
Brett (19:48.747)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (19:56.493)
You open the refrigerator, put a Post -it note up there, and don't have it say, you know, don't eat the cookie, have it say, eat the apple.
Brett (19:57.067)
Yeah.
Brett (20:04.107)
Yeah, it's funny. This goes back all the way to in my undergrad, I was actually a music business major. And part of that through our music school was having to be a part in operas and musicals. So we had to do one opera, one musical per year. Yeah. And it was so much fun. And I love that. But our
SEAN SWARNER (20:19.437)
Nice.
Brett (20:25.547)
one of our musical directors, she would always direct all of our operas and musicals that we would do. She would literally say this. She would say, your brain can't process a negative, so give it a positive. And the way that she phrased that didn't necessarily, I didn't understand the weight of it at that time, but she would say, if you're standing on stage and you're saying, don't, don't step here, don't forget that line. Don't, she's like, you're going to forget the line. You're going to step where you're, yeah, it's going to happen. But if you focus on,
SEAN SWARNER (20:48.429)
You're gonna forget.
Brett (20:52.299)
Remember the line, remember where I need to be. She's like, you'll be there and it's going to come to you.
SEAN SWARNER (20:56.813)
Absolutely, and also going back to your core value of family, let's hypothetically say there are two people up on stage. You are approaching them because say their acting's off a little bit. You ask them each, who's the most important person in this scene?
The one person is gonna say, oh me? No, not just because you're the leading actor, it's you. So each person, for this person, that person's the most important person in the scene. This person, that person is the most important person in the scene. When you're making decisions based on family, oftentimes you're not the most important person there.
Brett (21:14.891)
Yeah, the fuck. Yeah, but.
Brett (21:30.411)
Yeah.
Brett (21:35.595)
Yeah. I had this moment a couple of weeks ago where I just, I really realized with the family piece and it was kind of this wake up call. I don't, I don't, I don't even, it wasn't a big event. Nothing really necessarily happened, but I was just like, I was sitting there and I was like, man, I just don't feel like I've been a good role model of my kids. I've had a lot of setbacks in the last year, sort of in my personal life that have been incredibly difficult. And there was just this moment of realization where I was like this, the person that I'm being right now,
is not who I want to show my kids who they should be when they're going through a difficult time, when they're going through a tough time. And I need to pull myself together and to be that person so that when they go through a difficult time, they can remember because they're still in those young and impressionable years. And that has been like this incredible change in motivation for me was having not just myself. So again, going back to the scene, the two people.
Now I no longer am working for myself. It's like, and I always had my kids there and I always felt like they were important, but for some reason I hadn't connected with high enough, I don't think pressure is the right word, but with high enough importance that like if I don't get my stuff together, if I don't start acting in a way that's congruent with who I want to be, then I'm not role modeling that to them and that's who I want to be for them.
SEAN SWARNER (23:00.205)
And they pick up on that. Kids pick up on that. But also so does your internal dialogue. Who do you speak to more than anyone else throughout the day? Yourself. And there was a study done, 77 to 85 % of that self -talk, I call it internal dialogue, is negative. How are you gonna lift yourself up and be who you wanna be or go where you wanna go if you're constantly berating yourself, constantly talking yourself down?
Brett (23:08.683)
Yeah, yeah, yourself. Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (23:28.621)
If I didn't think it was possible to climb Mount Everest with one lung, there's no way it would have been done.
Brett (23:34.283)
Yeah, no way. Absolutely not.
SEAN SWARNER (23:36.845)
No, you have to believe in yourself, even when others don't.
Brett (23:42.027)
This is another thing, it's kind of incredible. You're literally hitting on everything that I have been going through in my life. You're kind of checking every single box. So this piece of identity has been so important to me. And I had some time off where I wasn't very consistent in the gym. I'd maybe go like once or twice. I wasn't really challenging myself when I was there. And this was true in a lot of areas of my life. And so one of the things that I started doing every time I would go to the gym and I would push myself, I would tell myself, this is who I am.
This is who I am. I deserve to be here. I deserve to challenge myself. I deserve to be a role model for my kids. And then trying to integrate those things when I would finish a good set. That's the kind of person I am. So I'm reinforcing that with my self -talk of like, this is who I am. I'm a person who doesn't give up when things get difficult. I'm going to keep going. I'm going to keep trying. I'm going to keep fighting. And so you bringing that up just, again, it blows my mind that you've literally hit on every single thing that I've really been working on the past several weeks.
And it gives me some hope that maybe I'm on the right track.
SEAN SWARNER (24:43.981)
Absolutely, you know my question would be to take it even further when you say this is who I am a Who is that and then B? Why were you going to the gym in the first place? Is it because you wanted giant muscles? Is it because you wanted to be in shape? Is it because you hated your body? I know a lot of people who go to the gym like I'm going to the gym because I hate my body Well, you should go to the gym because you love your body No matter what it looks like. It's it's healthy for you to go to the gym. It's healthy for you to eat that way
Brett (24:53.259)
Yeah.
Brett (25:03.755)
Hmm. Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (25:08.493)
Yes, people slip up. You know, I've, I've been on the couch before on Saturday watching football games. And I look over to my right side and I'm like, Oh my God, who ate all those backup? Who ate the entire bag of potato chips? And it's like, I'm the only one on the couch, right? Do the math. And how the hell that happened? Jeez, you know, there's a dog. What's going on? But looking at it from like, why are you going to the gym? It's the same thing as going for anything. If, if someone wants a.
Brett (25:18.603)
haha
SEAN SWARNER (25:37.741)
Double their salary, why? If someone wants the Audi R8, why? All that shiny stuff is gonna be dull and rusty at some point. What does it mean to you? Does it mean success? Then fantastic, go after it, go get it. Does it mean that you have the security to take care of your family? Wonderful. But as soon as you find out one of the personal core values that it represents or a couple,
Brett (25:49.643)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (26:05.037)
Now you're going to stick with it because it means so much more to you. It's not just looking in the mirror and saying, oh yeah, damn, I look good. No, it's, hey, I'm doing this because I feel great. I'm focused on personal growth and I'm supporting my family.
Brett (26:12.939)
Yeah, yeah.
Brett (26:20.811)
Hmm. That's clarity. I like that.
SEAN SWARNER (26:24.141)
And once you have that, you can constantly use it as.
as internal empowerment. So I'm a keynote speaker. I've worked with corporations like Google, IBM, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan, Trans America, Unilever, all over the world. And they always come up to me and they're like, hey, well, we're looking for an inspirational speaker. I'm like, well, you got the wrong guy. What are you talking about? Your story is very inspiring. Well, how many times have you gone to an event where you've had this motivational speaker come in, do his song and dance or her song and dance, whatever,
And then 20 minutes afterwards, everybody's at the networking event on their fifth glass of wine and they forgot everything the speaker just said. It's because external motivation doesn't last. You have to have it internally. And the only way you can do that is by utilizing your personal core values and find a deeper meaning for why you're going after what you're going after. Not, oh, I'm going to get, I want to get a raise because my neighbor has a...
Brett (27:05.835)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Brett (27:11.915)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (27:28.173)
new pool in the backyard and I'm jealous, I want to get a bigger pool. No, you're focusing on what you don't have and you're focusing on the lack of what you don't have as opposed to what you do have, your family, your health, whatever. You just have to have a different perspective.
Brett (27:39.275)
Yeah.
Sean, what are those values for you if you don't mind sharing?
SEAN SWARNER (27:46.797)
Uh, no, not at all. So I actually, for the longest time, you know, I
couldn't find what I was looking for online. And during my presentations, people would always come up to me afterwards. And we haven't even gotten there yet. I've climbed the highest mountain on every continent, as you mentioned. And I've also survived two terminal cancers, 14 days to live. I was in a coma for a year of my life, and I only have one lung. So accomplishing what I have requires some deeper insight. And people would come up to me after the presentations and say, oh, that's a good presentation. That's a great story.
But how did you do it? And that kind of planted the seed. So it took me a couple of years to figure out, even if I didn't know it at the time, there was some linear path that I took because my first goal was to crawl eight feet from the hospital bed to the bathroom. 16 years old when I was given 14 days to live and read my last rights, I was tired of, without getting too graphic, I was tired of vomiting on myself and soiling the sheets. As a 16 year old.
You know, I'm supposed to be having my hormones kick in and growing hair in unusual places on my body. You know, having these hormones go through my body and like, ah, things are all jacked up. But I was losing my hair, losing my friends. And I looked back and I was like, okay, well, how did I make that happen? And it was piecemeal by piecemeal, you know, one thing at a time. And I also looked, because I take a group up Kilimanjaro, which is a fun...
Brett (29:02.411)
Yeah. Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (29:21.293)
which is the highest mountain in Africa. And I do it as a fundraiser for a cancer charity every year. And sometimes we do two or three trips up Kilimanjaro a year. And in July, I'll be leaving for my 25th trip up the highest mountain in Africa, right? And the average success rate on the mountain is 48%. But my groups are 99 % success rate. So double the average. And I'm thinking, what's the difference?
Brett (29:34.411)
Wow.
Brett (29:43.819)
Wow.
Brett (29:48.619)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (29:48.621)
And I kind of put those two together, how I accomplished what I did climbing Everest with one lung people thought was impossible to do. Double the average success rate on the highest mountain in Africa Kilimajaro. Like what's the deal? And it's because of a number of things, but the biggest ones are I lead from behind, right? I empower people to go do it on their own as opposed to being that external motivating stimulus.
I empower people to figure it out on their own. There's more ownership there. And I also help people figure out the reason why they want to reach their summit. Because if you're going up in the middle of the night, it's 4 a .m., you've been hiking now for five hours, it is the coldest you've ever experienced in your entire life. Every fiber in your being is screaming quit.
Brett (30:21.483)
Yeah.
Brett (30:26.347)
Hmm.
Brett (30:44.459)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (30:44.909)
But all of a sudden you hear from someone behind you, like, hey, remember your dad because your dad passed away from cancer. Remember your family. Remember why you're here. Yes, some people need tough love, like, oh, you're never going to make it. Oh, you know, screw you, I'm going to make it. Some people need that. That's fine too. Totally non -judgmental. But if you have a deeper purpose for reaching this summit, for reaching your goal, you're going to make it. And that's what I put together myself. And I actually...
Brett (31:02.731)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brett (31:11.499)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (31:14.509)
I don't have my real action, you know? This is my wife, so we're actually going through it right now. This is the journal I created for the Big Hill Challenge. And going back to your question, probably every other month I walk myself through this and I write down my top 10 personal core values. And this time, because of change, you know, what you value now probably isn't what you value when you were 10.
Brett (31:21.771)
Yeah.
Brett (31:40.651)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (31:40.845)
know, what I value now isn't what I valued in college. And if it is, I really need to do a serious look at my life.
But I wrote down adventure, boldness, consistency, family, fitness, generosity, happiness, health, success, and security. And I also rated them on a scale of one to 10. And then a week later, I rated them again and all of them went up. Because I'm being mindful of how I'm making decisions. And every time I don't do that, you know, it's like everybody else, you get on the hamster wheel and you get on autopilot.
Brett (31:56.491)
Hmm.
Brett (32:04.395)
Hmm.
Brett (32:09.867)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (32:16.621)
You're just sitting there running and running in place. And I was a competitive swimmer for, for years. And I put, I would put in, you know, three to five miles in the pool and I would end up with the same place I started. That's the point.
Brett (32:19.179)
Yeah.
Brett (32:29.067)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
fascinating. One of the things that I'm curious about Sean is along this journey, were there any moments where you needed a reset or a restart where maybe you hit a point where you're like, man, I don't know, maybe a point of doubt, a point of question. And if so, how did you move through that?
SEAN SWARNER (32:57.133)
I can think of a number of them, but the biggest one that resonates with me is I was actually on the side of Mount Everest at Camp 3 on what's called the Lhotse Ice Face, which is a sheet of ice at a 45 degree angle. And it literally goes on for about a mile and you chip down and out to put your tent. And I had some pickets holding the tent and myself to the side of the mountain. So I wouldn't rock it down and die.
And I remember one night while we were going up for the summit push, we were going to be sleeping at camp three and then wake up in the morning and move to camp four in what's called the South Cole and then go from there in the evening and push for the summit. I remember going to bed that night in my tent and I was eating, we call them freeze dried nasties, right? So it's like freeze dried food.
And it was the beef stew. It was like the spiral noodles, the cubed chunks of beef, the green peas and the cubed carrots. Right? So I chowed that down and I went to sleep and I woke up, I don't know, eight, nine hours later and I had this retching, nauseous feeling in my stomach.
Brett (33:59.915)
I know exactly what you're talking about right now. Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (34:19.053)
I unzipped the tent as quickly as I could and I vomited everything out. I could still see the spiral noodles, those cubed carrots, the green peas and the chunks of beef. Meaning my body wasn't functioning the way it was, the way it should. I was suffering from high altitude cerebral edema, basically altitude induced swelling in the brain. We were supposed to leave that day.
Brett (34:31.307)
Oh no.
Brett (34:44.011)
Mm -hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (34:46.893)
go up for the summit or go up to camp four, push for the summit that evening, I couldn't put one foot in front of the other. I was doubting myself. I was thinking there's no way this is even going to be happening. Maybe everyone was right. Maybe climbing Everest with one lung is impossible. And I slept on oxygen that night, the whole day on oxygen, the next night on oxygen.
Brett (35:04.907)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (35:11.501)
And it turned out to be a blessing in disguise because every other group who was on the same schedule as us left that same camp, went up to camp four, they went for the summit push, the weather turned bad and they all turned around and they lost their opportunity. They lost their weather window. So it was a blessing in disguise because if I would have felt perfectly fine and gone up, I wouldn't have made it. But I came down with this altitude -induced swelling in the brain. So I...
Brett (35:27.819)
Oh wow. Yeah. Wow.
SEAN SWARNER (35:40.845)
I'm a firm believer in signs. I do believe that things happen for a reason. But one of the things that kept me going was that constant reminder of why I was on the mountain. It wasn't for me. It wasn't to be the first cancer survivor to climb Everest. It was to give other people hope. Other people touched by cancer was the initial concept. And every step on the mountain, I had a flag that was about a foot and a half by about 10 inches. And on there,
Brett (35:45.227)
Yeah.
Brett (35:56.907)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (36:09.613)
were screened names of people touched by cancer. And it was folded up in my chest pocket close to my heart as a constant reminder of why I was doing what I was doing. So when I got sick, I unfolded this flag and I started reading the names. And some people I actually hand wrote on there because with my satellite phone, I called mom and dad and mom said, hey, can you add this person on there? One name, her lady's name was Yasuyo Suzuki. I'll never forget it. She's like, yeah.
Brett (36:18.219)
Wow.
SEAN SWARNER (36:38.285)
Can you write her on there? I was like, why? Mom goes, she just passed away. I was like, ugh, gotta be kidding me. So I wrote her name, excuse me, I wrote her name on there. And while I was sick, I kept reading those names. And I was like, you know what? Being where I was on the mountain was a success. Coming home alive is a success. But having that deeper purpose for the summit, that flag was it. And that's what kept me going. So anybody who's going through a difficult time, find a deeper reason to keep.
Brett (37:01.483)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (37:07.469)
putting one foot in front of the other.
Brett (37:10.411)
So powerful. Thanks for sharing all that, Sean. And I'm curious, so when you get there, when you finally were at the summit of Everest, can you describe that moment, what it felt like and what it meant to you?
SEAN SWARNER (37:15.885)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (37:34.061)
Am I allowed to say I wrote my name in the snow? I had to go to the bathroom so I wrote my name in the snow.
Brett (37:36.779)
Absolutely.
SEAN SWARNER (37:46.509)
You know, when I got up there, I collapsed to my knees. I put my hand in my head and my hands and I wept like a little baby. I did. It was so emotional. And having that emotional attachment to the end result made me, again, put one foot in front of the other. And I think a number of emotions and feelings, elation, nervousness, excitement,
You name it. It was like everything all wrapped up into one. But the instant I realized what I had accomplished, a millisecond later, I started looking around and thought to myself, I have to go back down.
Brett (38:29.291)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (38:29.741)
I didn't focus on it because most people when they're reaching for goals, they're like, okay, I reached the goal. Great. Well, you're only halfway.
Brett (38:40.395)
Yeah, that's powerful too. So from there, one of the things, and I think this is something that happened to me just being transparent in my life, is I accomplished almost everything that I had as a dream, you know, as a kid, and that I had sort of evolved into. And I got to that point, and I think, I don't know if you're familiar with Ed Mylett, he talks about this idea of the air conditioning in our lives. Like we sort of,
our subconscious will turn on the air conditioning in our lives to the temperature of the identity that we believe we have. And so I think I hit that point and that process sort of subconsciously unraveled a lot of the things that I had done in my life and a lot of the things that I was proud to do. And looking back in retrospect, I think I didn't know what to do next. I think I got to this point where I was like, I have a little bit of money, I've got a...
that I'm really proud of, that I feel like I worked really hard to get here for. I am involved in my church. I am, all these things that I felt like were checking all the boxes and I didn't know where to go from there because my identity felt like maybe even smaller than where I already was. I don't know, is that something that you, how did you in that moment continue to expand your vision? I guess is what I'm curious, instead of reverting back to,
a prior version of yourself, or how did you keep going after that?
SEAN SWARNER (40:15.533)
You know, it's interesting because not everyone's going to climb Everest, but we all do have an Everest to climb. And one of my goals when I was going through the treatments was to run a 5k race. And I remember training for it. I was, like I said, 70 pounds overweight. I finished dead last, but it was something that I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it.
climbing Everest, I had a deeper purpose for it. And reaching the summit, I realized that there are how many billions of people in the world who need help. You know, every time I travel, whether it's on an expedition, adventure, speaking engagement, even vacation, I've visited hospitals.
And I share my survivorship story with the patients because I get inspiration from them. They get inspiration from me. And there's this whole cycle of circle of hope. And when I'm thinking of quitting, I realize if I really wanted to, I could pick up the sat phone, call a helicopter and be backed out. People who are fighting for the lives, they can't pick up the phone and say, Hey, you know what? I think I'll do my treatments next year. You know, they don't have that option.
Brett (41:36.907)
Mm -hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (41:39.917)
And I think that looking at how giant this world is and how almost insignificant we are as human beings, collectively we can accomplish so much more. So I wanted to help other people believe in themselves. Because if we all come from a positive standpoint, looking for the best in one another, as opposed to this negative standpoint and being judgmental,
Brett (41:40.299)
Yeah.
Brett (41:53.291)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (42:07.277)
If we remove the ego, if we remove all that stuff and see ourselves as all being equal, then imagine how amazing this world could truly be.
Brett (42:17.771)
Yeah.
It's inspiring.
Brett (42:24.619)
And ego is an interesting one because it tends to, it almost works in two ways. I feel like ego, or I don't know if ego is the right word, but there's this component of it that's like, I'm greater than I am. Like I don't see myself accurately, I see myself as better than I am. But I think there's also maybe a darker side of ego that's like, I don't see myself as, it's equally as deceiving in the opposite direction where like I can't.
Like the ego in me believes that I'm different than everyone else, that there's something unique in my circumstances, like there's something unique in the situation that I'm going through that other people couldn't possibly understand because like no one else could get what I'm going through. Does that make sense?
SEAN SWARNER (43:08.269)
It does. And I also think that... Excuse me. I also think there's a huge difference between ego and confidence. Ego holds you back not from criticisms, but from refinements. You know, if you remove yourself from the situation, look at it from a different perspective, or if my wife comes up and says, hey, maybe you want to try this, or we were talking earlier, hey, you know, listen to some of my podcasts, any suggestions. There's no ego involved because...
someone who's looking to improve themselves removes the ego. If you have a giant ego, then you're not going to be receptive to any advice or suggestions to make those refinements. And I think we all can learn if we do take a step back from ourselves. We're human beings, man. We're all unique individuals who came from a different...
area in life, we all have two ears and one mouth for a reason. You know, we all have a story to tell and we just need to respect each other's stories, respect those differences. I've had conversations with my friends before where, can you imagine if the world, if everybody in the world thought the same, did the same, it would be so frickin' boring.
Brett (44:24.555)
Yeah. Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (44:25.421)
I enjoy having those deep conversations and disagreeing on certain things and coming out on the other end and saying, yeah, that's what you believe. Great. You're entitled to that opinion. Jokingly, I'm like, no matter how wrong it is, but you know, you're entitled to that opinion. You know, and that's, and that's perfectly fine. Just have that respect. That's what makes the world an amazing place. I've been to 70 countries. I've killed Majuro 25 times. I was adopted into the Chugga tribe. I was adopted into the Masai tribe.
Brett (44:37.067)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (44:54.573)
In Nepal, they call me a Sherpa when I'm over there. It's because it's coming from a non -judgmental standpoint and I believe their views. They're entitled to it. That's fantastic. Who am I to impose my beliefs on somebody else?
Brett (44:58.091)
Wow.
Brett (45:09.835)
Yeah. Sean, you have so many things that you've been able to accomplish and so many obstacles that you've overcome. Is there one particular thing that kind of stands out as most meaningful to you?
SEAN SWARNER (45:24.781)
Great question.
SEAN SWARNER (45:29.197)
I would say, and I might get emotional talking about it too, one presentation in particular, I got done and it was a giant conference and there was a queue of people lined up to talk to me to share their stories. And I love those one -on -ones, I do. And I was noticing the lady who was next up in line and I could tell that she'd been crying because her mascara was running, her eyes were bloodshot.
and she came up to me and just latched on, buried her face in my chest and she lost it. And I'm sitting here thinking, I'm supposed to be this pillar of strength and I'm like, oh my God, keep it together, because I wanted to lose it. And she collects herself and she leans back and she tells me that in the past six months, she lost her husband to cancer, she lost her son to cancer and she was diagnosed for the third time with breast cancer.
SEAN SWARNER (46:25.549)
And in her room, she told me she said that she had enough pills and alcohol to take her own life. She had a suicide note written out, you know, this is why, this is, you know, have a good life, whatever. And she told me that she came to one more presentation, one more talk, it happened to be mine, and she told me I saved her life.
SEAN SWARNER (46:51.565)
I was so awestruck, you know, in such shock. I don't even remember what I said. I didn't have the wherewithal to get her information. I wish I would have, cause I'd love to stay in touch with her and know how she's doing now. But that one always sticks with me when I'm thinking, you know, why am I doing what I'm doing? I feel like I'm beating my head up against a wall. I'm doing, you know, I'm swimming upstream right now against what everybody else is not doing. But it's, it's when you have that,
Brett (47:19.179)
Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (47:21.997)
happen to you. It's a great reminder that the effort's worth it.
Brett (47:27.435)
Yeah. Man, what a story. That one made me a little emotional too. That's super powerful. And I think it's important to remind everyone listening that you don't always, like sometimes you have experiences like what Sean had here where someone comes up and they tell you about that, but you don't always know the people that you're inspiring. Sean, for that person that came and talked to you, there could be dozens more that had the exact same experience that didn't get a chance to say,
to you or to walk up to you yet because maybe they didn't make it to the conference or they haven't been to one of your events in person yet or they haven't reached out via email. I think it's so important to remember the span of our impact in our lives is sometimes so much greater than we can possibly fathom. And so continuing to live from that place of purpose and from those values that are so important to you, like you don't know who's watching and who's inspired by that in your life.
SEAN SWARNER (48:25.581)
Absolutely, and going back to your one of your core values, personal core values of being family, you never know how your decisions could directly impact someone else. People often say, oh, I don't have enough time for that. Oh, I can't do that. You honestly, you create time. You create time based on what you value most. So for example, let's just say right now you're...
You're in your office. Your son comes in and says, Hey dad, let's go in the backyard and play catch. Yeah, sorry. I don't have time for that later. Same scenario. Son comes in screaming, Dad, I just stepped on a rusty nail. You're not going to say, sorry, I don't have time for that. You make time for what's important to you.
Brett (49:11.019)
Mm -hmm. You got time.
Brett (49:21.675)
I think that brings up an important, I guess, question and set of information is that the average American right now is watching Netflix or some version of TV for around, I think, average four hours per day. And then on top of that, using social media upwards of an hour a day in addition to that. I think for some people, it's hard to recognize how much time
is available. So if there's someone listening who's stuck in a pattern, and this is not from a place of judgment, if you're listening and that's you, because I've been there as well, is someone who's kind of stuck on the couch or stuck in their bed and they're having a hard time getting up and getting moving and pursuing the dreams that they have, what's the first thing that you would recommend?
SEAN SWARNER (50:13.549)
You know, it's funny, I know I mentioned the big hill challenge that I put together and I'm going through it right now and every day I receive an email and this one from this morning was all about being mindful. So this was a great segue from what you just asked. And I'm gonna read a portion of this email and it says, imagine you're coming out of a coma where you remember nothing about yourself.
Okay, so you remember nothing about yourself. Imagine you're coming out of a coma where you remember nothing about yourself. How do you think you'd act if the doctors told you that you used to be a violet instructor? How differently would you react if you were told you used to be a special op in the armed forces?
Every day you have an opportunity to decide how your brain is programmed and if you choose to see obstacles or opportunities. You can make positive conscious choices to become stronger every day or you can let your brain be programmed by external factors.
Brett (51:28.075)
That's relevant.
SEAN SWARNER (51:29.453)
Absolutely. So you're sitting there and you know, human beings are, we have a saying that you are what you eat, right? You are what you consume.
mentally and physically. So if you're not careful, your brain is going to be programmed. It's just like a computer. It's going to be programmed by external forces and things that go against your personal core values, or it's going to be programmed properly by you based on what you value and want for your own life. Why, for example, and I'm just making this up on the go,
Corporations, Netflix, Instagram, you know, first of all, the phone was created so we could use it, but it's using us now. And corporations are out to make money. They don't care about us as individuals. That's our responsibility. So why am I gonna give my money to someone and do something, listen to someone who doesn't care about me?
Brett (52:40.459)
Yeah.
Brett (52:44.619)
Great question. I think it's a good place for people to start as well is what if you could replace, let's say, so going back to the one action, right? Find your values. What is one action that you could take to replace that time in Netflix, right? One thing. I don't know, maybe it's listening to a podcast. Maybe it's joining Sean's challenge.
SEAN SWARNER (53:10.701)
whatever your personal core values are, focus on that. Take the challenge, get honed in on your personal core values. But with that thing, say you sit down habitually, and that's usually what it is. We're not mindful of what we're doing every day. If you habitually sit down, grab the remote, turn on the TV, because it's an escape from reality, great, you know what? Pick up a book.
Start reading for 10 minutes. I guarantee that 10 minutes will turn into 15, 15 will turn into an hour. Or listen to a podcast. Listen to something that's gonna be uplifting. Use Netflix as a reward to get that dopamine hit. Use Netflix as a reward after you do something productive.
Brett (53:55.659)
I love that suggestion. Sean, one of the things that I was thinking earlier and I want to circle back to is...
That version of you, that 13 -year -old, 16 -year -old version of you that was literally fighting for your life and had that first goal of I'm gonna crawl to the bathtub is still in there, right? And you have had so many experiences now to build your confidence, to sort of reinforce that identity of who you are and who you're becoming. What would you tell that version of you today?
SEAN SWARNER (54:37.229)
Interesting, interesting question.
And I'm gonna put a little spin on that, that most people don't consider because going back to that child, that's impossible, I can't do it. So, no offense, but why would I even think about going back in time because I can't change it? What I do is, what I do is I project myself five years from now.
Brett (54:54.251)
Yeah.
Brett (55:02.571)
I love this. I love this. Keep going, please.
SEAN SWARNER (55:10.669)
What do I tell myself five years from now?
Brett (55:13.963)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (55:15.021)
And then what does that person five years from now tell me?
Brett (55:19.979)
Interesting.
SEAN SWARNER (55:20.493)
That I can change. There's nothing I can do about the past. You know, we're looking at the camera here, so this is the past. Nothing I can do about the past. However, if I project myself in the future, see my goals, talk to myself, what do I tell myself? What does my future self tell me now?
I think that's more influential than hypothetically going back in time. Now, granted, it's a hypothetical question in the future as well, but it's more relevant because I can't change the past. My future hasn't been written yet. The chapters of my past, they're done. They're closed, they're printed, they're in a book. But I still have my own. Every morning I wake up, I have an opportunity to write what I want in those new chapters.
Brett (55:58.699)
Mm.
Brett (56:07.307)
Yeah. So would you say that we maybe focus on the past a bit too much?
SEAN SWARNER (56:13.517)
Oh, absolutely. I mean, how many people do you know who are lamenting and depressed? They're living in the past. People who are anxious are living in the future, but people who are living in the present, loving life. But I do think that most people, maybe going back and forth, because who you are in the past has helped you develop into who you are now, obviously. But people...
Brett (56:26.123)
Yeah.
Brett (56:37.131)
Mm -hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (56:39.981)
live in the past and they focus on all the things that maybe the regrets, the things that they didn't accomplish, the things that they didn't do, the chances they didn't take.
You know, knowing that, well, what's holding you back? A perceived concept of fear that you might have? You know, compare the past to what you're doing in the future. So how many times in the past have you worried about something that didn't even happen?
Brett (57:08.971)
It's gotta be over 80%. Gotta be.
SEAN SWARNER (57:11.437)
Now, how can you take that perspective and look at it in the future? Like, okay, if 80 % of my worry in the past didn't even come to fruition, didn't even happen, I'm gonna start taking 80 % more chances because it's probably gonna be the same in the future.
Brett (57:28.299)
And that's wild to think about from that perspective. Wild. And I love, again, I love this idea of, and thank you for flipping that question because I think it is so important to look at things in that way because you're right, we have the ability to change. We have the ability to grow. And if we're connecting to that version of us in the future that we're trying to grow into,
and getting advice from that version of ourselves and talking and conversing with that version of ourselves, how much more likely is it that we're going to reach towards that, to be inspired towards that, to feel confident in moving towards that versus if we're just looking in the past? Again, I think the depression is one piece. I think it's also like we tend to create more of what we're focused on. And so if we're focused on the past and conditions in our past, we may...
unconsciously or subconsciously be recreating those events in our lives even.
SEAN SWARNER (58:30.701)
Absolutely, absolutely because we're creatures of habit. And if you're so focused on what didn't happen, you're like, ah, it's gonna happen again, I know it. And then what happens? It does. You're gonna keep repeating the bad, you're gonna keep repeating the same mistakes. I mean, how many people have been in relationships, maybe they got married, maybe they had kids, whatever it might be.
And they're married to the same type of person they married, or the relationship was the same type of person who was the first relationship that didn't work out.
Brett (59:09.355)
Yeah, you see that all the time and often similar to like a parent figure or a support figure early in life as well.
SEAN SWARNER (59:17.645)
And if that didn't work out in the past, what's gonna make this one? Oh, she's a different person. She's the same type of person. You have an opportunity to change. You can't change the past, but you have every opportunity every single day you wake up to change and create the future you want. Looking back on those, I don't wanna call them obstacles, I don't wanna call them issues, they're opportunities to realize that and be mindful of what you wanna change going forward.
Brett (59:49.515)
I'm just imagining how different life could be for myself if putting these things more consistently into practice. I see so much more momentum and consistency and excitement and enthusiasm in my life moving forward if these things are put into, I think, a practice. And I think consistency, you mentioned earlier, like a consistent practice where they're constantly aware and in my vision and in my attention.
SEAN SWARNER (01:00:17.773)
You keep saying if, if, if, if these things happen, what's preventing them from happening?
Brett (01:00:21.323)
Mmm.
Brett (01:00:27.947)
That's a
SEAN SWARNER (01:00:28.109)
Who's preventing those from happening?
Brett (01:00:30.635)
I think the thing that I realized when you were talking earlier about the past and focusing on the past, I think maybe I've spent way too much time trying to figure out my past and everything that happened to me and deconstruct it to avoid it in the future instead of, again, looking at who do I want to become and what are the values that I want to embody and what does the person that I want to be look like?
and then focusing on that every day. So I think, I don't know that I'd say that maybe it is just the past. I think it's my focus on the past though, not my past specifically that's holding me back. I think maybe I'm hung up there a little bit subconsciously.
SEAN SWARNER (01:01:14.125)
Maybe you realize that what you valued back then, one of the biggest things that holds people back, I think, are little gremlins. And this is gonna sound way out there. But it's usually that voice on your shoulder saying, ah, you can't do that, you're not smart enough, you're gonna make the same mistake again, whatever it might be. And that voice came from your past.
Brett (01:01:35.211)
Yeah. Yeah.
SEAN SWARNER (01:01:42.541)
Usually a parent a parental figure your mom dad a loved one, whatever Hey, how many times have you said this to your children? Be careful. Don't do that. You're gonna get hurt Over and over and over again, we're learning what we can't do what we shouldn't do and That programs our brains that gets into it gets into the subconscious
Brett (01:01:53.419)
Mm -hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (01:02:09.901)
Now in the future, now well in the present, you have that voice chirping in the back of your mind like, look, I actually call mine Cooper. Like I said, this is going to be way out there. Cooper, listen, dude, we're going to have a serious talk here. I know at some point in my life, you were there to protect me, but we both want the best for me, right? Right. Let's move forward together and make proper decisions based on what we want for the best of me.
Brett (01:02:36.203)
Hmm.
SEAN SWARNER (01:02:37.261)
I appreciate you being there in the past. I have no use for you anymore. You got me to where I am right now. Time to cut ties.
Brett (01:02:50.187)
I think you hit the nail on the head actually. There was someone, and if this person is listening, this is just a self -awareness piece, but there was someone that was an important figure in my life who at one point I had some pretty big dreams to do these really specific things and they had told me, hey, you can't do that. It's too risky, you're not gonna succeed. The chances of succeeding are too small. And I think that voice has subconsciously
been there a lot. And I think part of it for me is it's almost like hard to let go of that because I haven't put enough focus into who's replacing that. Right? So it's like without that voice, maybe there's a void in my life that I need to fill with some compelling future version of myself or my why.
Brett (01:03:45.291)
I don't know if that makes sense, but that's what kind of came to mind there.
SEAN SWARNER (01:03:51.661)
It makes complete sense and you have to also remember that what other people say is a reflection. It's basically it's a reflection of their own beliefs and their ability projected onto you. That's not how they feel about your abilities. That's how they feel about their abilities, their own abilities. And I've always said, what I say is about me, what you hear is about you.
So how you interpret what I say, hey, I'm going to go climb Everest with one lung. Oh, you can't do that. No, you can't do that.
Oh, I'm gonna start a business and put an online program together. Ah, you can't do that. No, I can, you can't. That's your limiting belief, not mine. So when people tell you you can't do something, it's them projecting their own feelings of themselves on you. So what I say is about me, what you hear is about you. So how I interpret that.
it's not gonna hold me back. And one of the best ways that I've been able to get over that is, again, it sounds weird. When people start talking to me and say, you can't do that, you can't do that, oh, that's so negative, blah, blah, blah. I pretend like I'm covered in Teflon. Those words hit me and slide right off.
Brett (01:05:08.075)
Hmm.
Brett (01:05:13.163)
powerful though. It's powerful. And I think the visual, sometimes those, the visual representation or like the embodiment of an idea, it makes it so much more real for us because it's one thing to be like, nah, their words don't mean anything to me. And some people may, that may be the idea that actually clicks with them better, but then some people, the idea of the Teflon and of those words bouncing off, that may actually be something that resonates with them a little better because I could feel,
When you said those words, I could feel that. When you were kind of demonstrating that, I was kind of embodying it. And I was like, man, I feel like that's the mindset I need to have. I love that mindset.
SEAN SWARNER (01:05:54.861)
And that's probably for the general public, you know, people who don't know you that well. But if others are saying, hey, you can't do that, be careful. From them, it's stemming from a place of love because they're trying to protect you. You know, but just don't take those things personally because you know deep down you're capable of so much more.
Brett (01:06:16.587)
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that, Sean. This, this means a lot to me personally. This episode has been incredibly inspiring to me and my mindset. And the biggest challenge I took away from this is one, figuring out who is that person. So going back to the gym piece of like, why do I go to a gym when I was kind of reinforcing those beliefs? Who is that person clearly defined that and why is, why is that important?
and then I'm removing the word if, if I do this in the future from my vocabulary. So those are some of the big takeaways that I'm pulling from you right now. Sean, I'm curious, what are you up to now? And if people want to sort of get involved in some of the things that you have going on, what are some of the best ways to do that?
SEAN SWARNER (01:07:10.253)
That's the easiest question you've asked yet. Just go to SeanSwaner .com, my first name, last name .com. There's a bunch of information there. I lead groups up Kilimanjaro. I have a couple books out. There's a movie on Amazon. And I think the biggest one would be the Big Hill Challenge, which is a three week mental wellness challenge to help people utilize their own personal core values to get what they want from their own lives.
Brett (01:07:12.203)
Hahaha
Brett (01:07:33.963)
Yeah, I will link to all of those things in the show notes. And if you're listening and this episode has been inspiring to you, I'm going to challenge you to get into the Big Hill Challenge, to actually go to sign up and to do it because I think it will be transformative for you. I was talking with Sean before this and that is an action I'm going to take. This is not an if I sign up. This is I'm going to, I'm going to take the Big Hill Challenge myself and I hope that you all will, will join me in doing that.
SEAN SWARNER (01:07:54.285)
Hahaha
Brett (01:08:01.131)
Sean, one of the questions that I typically ask on almost every episode, if time allows, is that if somebody's just starting out in their journey and they don't have a super clear sense of purpose, but they know they want to do something big in the world, where would you tell them to start?
SEAN SWARNER (01:08:21.997)
I would honestly, and we didn't rehearse this, you didn't give me that question beforehand, the only person who's gonna make you successful and the only person who's going to make you unsuccessful is the same person. So start with those deep questions and look at yourself in the mirror.
SEAN SWARNER (01:08:43.214)
Who are you? What do you want? Why you want it? That's oftentimes people who don't take time to do that start, it's the shiny object syndrome. They start chasing things because it's shiny and new and they lose themselves in the process. So take a hard deep look in the mirror and figure out who and what you want and why you are.
Brett (01:09:05.547)
That is a beautiful answer, Sean. I'm gonna throw one other sort of follow -up question, and this one is a tough one as well. So if this one doesn't work out, we can always pop it out of the episode. But Sean, how would you, or who would you say you are? So in.
SEAN SWARNER (01:09:24.301)
You know what? That's... So going back to the Big Hill Challenge, that is kind of like my intake evaluation question. I call it a root assessment, right? And there are questions in there like, who are you? What matters most to you right now? What are the biggest fears or concerns you have right now? And...
Brett (01:09:34.731)
Oh, interesting.
SEAN SWARNER (01:09:49.645)
This was, I started my Big Hill Challenge April 1st. So what are we, 12 days into it? I don't know when this is gonna be put out there, but my question is, who are you? And I'm gonna just read it right off. I don't even remember what it says. I am a unique individual with so much potential inside me, but I'm holding myself back. I'm scared of true success and I'm a giving, loving, caring man who has so much to offer.
Brett (01:10:03.115)
Perfect. That's awesome.
Brett (01:10:20.651)
Wow.
Sean, thank you for sharing that. That resonates with me too.
SEAN SWARNER (01:10:29.325)
Yeah, it's difficult to do, but you have to ask, well, you don't have to. If you don't want to be successful, then don't do it, but you have to ask yourself those deep questions if you want to be whole.
Brett (01:10:29.611)
he does.
Brett (01:10:39.819)
Yeah. Yeah. And is there anything else, Sean, that you want to share with the audience while we're all together today?
SEAN SWARNER (01:10:48.397)
I think we covered everything.
Brett (01:10:51.115)
I think so too. This was a phenomenal episode, Sean. Thank you so much for your time and for all the wisdom that you have so hard earned. What do you got?
SEAN SWARNER (01:11:01.037)
I do. I do have something. I have never made it to the summit of any significant mountain by myself. I've always had a team in place. And one of the things that I want to give a shout out to is my wife. She just got her, she just passed her real estate license exam yesterday. And if anyone's looking for a house in Puerto Rico, she was born and raised in Puerto Rico. We're down here right now. And I realized as I was thinking that,
She's always been there. My family has always been there. I've always had the Sherpas. I've always had the guys on Kilimanjaro. Now you're in my corner. I have always had these people behind me believing in me and supporting me. And everybody needs that.
Brett (01:11:44.075)
I think that's a perfect place to wrap today's show. So Sean, thank you so much for being here today, man. And I'm looking forward to hopefully having another conversation sometime in the future.
SEAN SWARNER (01:11:55.949)
Absolutely Brett, thank you so much man.
Brett (01:11:58.347)
Take care.