Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Ever wish you had a mentor to help you become who you were meant to be? Crystal Ware is redefining what it means to become your best self, in business, life, and love and sharing everything she she knows to get YOU there faster.
Are you stuck? Feel like you are meant for more but not sure how to breakthrough? Every week, we will explore all of your questions on building a path to true happiness, achieving success and creating our dream life. Brick by brick, we will work through the issues and mindsets that keep us stuck, dive into finding our passion and how to take ACTION. Clarity (vision) + Confidence (Owning your worth) + Courage (to live life on your own terms and become your own CEO) propels you to your destiny. And the good news it: its all within you!
Each week, host, Crystal Ware, will bring you all of the practical wisdom to grow every aspect of your career and life including mindset, vision, goal planning, social media management, financial acumen and so much more. You'll also meet top business leaders, entrepreneurs, mompreneurers and innovative thinkers who invested in themselves and found their way success and happiness by leading on their own terms.
You were made for more, so start living like it today. Join us as we take action, grow together, and get inspired to reach for your dreams.
How Enneagram can help you improve your career, life, and leadership skills with Kelli Thompson {Career}
===
[00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of get clear with crystal where we have a repeat guest on the show today. And I'm so excited. Kelly Thompson is back to talk to us about Enneagram, which I just find so fascinating. We taught, touched upon this in our last episode. So I really wanted to have Kelly back to talk about it, to ask some more specific questions about how Enneagram can help us in our business and our career and in our life.
And just to recap, for those of you who may not know, Kelly is an award winning leadership and executive coach, keynote speaker, and. The acclaimed author of closing the confidence gap, boost your peace, your potential and your paycheck. And you guys know that I am all about all of those things. So you can see how I really felt super aligned with what Kelly loves to talk and coach about and what I love to talk and coach about.
So welcome back to the show, Kelly.[00:01:00]
Thank you. I'm excited to chat about the Enneagram today.
Absolutely. And just for everybody, I know I gave a quick introduction, but tell us a little bit more about yourself. just a really quick recap on how you got to be where you are today. And then a quick introduction on what brought you into the world of Enneagram.
Yeah. They all kind of intertwined. So, I started my journey in corporate America by being in banking for almost 14 years and working in very male dominated environments. I was in sales. I was in sales training. I was in HR and then I managed learning and development teams. Nowhere. It wasn't uncommon for me to be one of the only women in the rooms where decisions are made.
And after I left banking, I went to technology, which wasn't much better. And, you know, one of the things that I reflect on that I always really loved was just coaching women on so many topics related to confidence, mostly because I struggled with them too. So it was like, Hey, we're, we're trying to figure this stuff out.
You know, I loved talking to them about negotiating their salaries, obviously being an HR person, you know, going for [00:02:00] jobs that, you know, they were. Saw on the job posting board and they were excited. and so I just focused my entire career around learning and development. And so as part of that, I never met a personality test.
I didn't like, you know, I've taken so many of them, the disc, the gallop strengths finder, the Myers Briggs. And I use a lot of it in my development programs. I went to go actually go work for an author and a leadership consultant, and I was traveling quite a bit. And that's what led me to start my own business was I wanted to get off the road and I really just wanted to focus on coaching.
and so I have been running my own practice, with a mission of helping women advance to the rooms where decisions are made since 2019. And I found the Enneagram in like mid 2020. So I will never forget. I was working at my last corporate job and my coworker had like this little circle up on her desk.
And I said, well, what is that? She's like, Oh, it's the Enneagram. I'm like, what's the Enneagram? She's like, Oh, it's like a personality test. And she tried to explain it, but I was a very data driven person. I'm like, Oh, whatever. I'm like, that [00:03:00] isn't even validated. Like it's not as good as the Myers Briggs blah, blah, blah.
I totally had a sassy pants attitude about it. And it was probably about like six to nine months later, I was listening to a podcast with Oprah and she was interviewing, a gentleman named Father Richard Rohr. for those of you who don't know Richard Rohr, he is a spiritual, but I wouldn't say necessarily religious leader.
and I started following him, really enjoyed his teaching and his books just about personal and human development. And then he started talking about the Enneagram. I'm like, okay, so if this guy's talking about it, maybe I better look into it. So I went online and I took a free test and I think that's where a lot of people start.
And the free test came back and said that I was an Enneagram one. And I read through the Enneagram and I was like, and the Enneagram is basically a personality assessment that tells you what motivates you, what your blind spots are. And, I'll just stop at that for now. And so I was reading it. I'm like, yeah, behaviorally, this, this kind of sounds like me.
It kind of sounds like me. I did some work believing that I was a [00:04:00] one for quite a long time. And I found enough of it helpful where I wanted to get certified in the Enneagram. Because again, we're going to talk about this behaviorally. I do some very one ish things, but as you're about to find out, I'm actually not a one.
And so as I went to go get certified, I went through the integrative Enneagram, which they kind of bragged that their test is 95%. Accurate. And in my practice, it has been, it came back and said that I was an Enneagram five. I had like an identity crisis because, and we're going to talk about this, but Enneagram Fives, are motivated by the need to be capable and competent and not rely on other people for resources.
And so what they can tend to do is they can tend to be miserly with like their calendars, emotional generosity. And I remember reading it and it hit home so much. Like somebody had put language to things I'd only ever felt or were annoyed by, but never articulated. And I remember going to my husband, I'm like, does this sound like me?
And he's like, yeah. And so that was really my journey. Not only of like typing myself accurately by recognizing [00:05:00] that the Enneagram is about motivation, not behavior. So many other tests are about, these are your behaviors. So this is what you are. The Enneagram is like, this is what motivates you. This is why you do the things that you do.
And so when you are motivated by common things, you might have some tendencies and behaviors, but it also tells you kind of like, here's what's got you by the tail in life. Here's what holds you back from accomplishing your full potential. And so once I really typed myself accurately. Like that's when real transformation began and that's when I started using it with my clients and it's a required that if you want to work with me as a client, we start with the Enneagram because it helps us achieve results so much faster because we can so quickly go in and say, this is why you're doing the things that you're doing.
This is why you're frustrated. This is why you're having conflict with that person. It just gives us a better snapshot. So that was a really big intro into how I got here and how I found the Enneagram. So, we can unpack this even more.
[00:06:00] Yeah. And I know that, in talking about that and what we talked about before is you are adamant that these free online, which are abundant, abundantly available online. Are not going to accurately depict. So for anybody listening and anybody that's really interested in diving in. And I know there's like series of books that are written specifically for your Enneagram type and different things like that.
So you have a resource of that's a trusted site that you can share. That's a paid source.
yes. So if you want to, okay, so tests are, let me just back up and say, okay, I've just discovered this thing called the Enneagram. People are talking about it. Okay. It's a personality assessment. It's going to tell me why I do the things that I do. What are my blind spots? You know, my triggers and those things, you know, how do I move into my highest self?
Okay. Where do I even start? Okay. If you're going to start with a free test, let's say like truity. com. I want you to take your top three results. But I want you to go to a reputable [00:07:00] site like integrative9, integrativeandthenumber9. com, and I want you to read those three results. Or I want you to go to Beatrice Chestnut's site, she's an author and writes tremendous books on the Enneagram.
And her website is cp. com. And I want you just to go and read through your top three results because what a lot of folks find is they've taken a free test and they come back and they say, I'm an Enneagram three. I know I'm an Enneagram three. I do all these things. And when we really get into actually slowing down and typing them, we start to understand that actually they're not an Enneagram three.
There may be a certain type of Enneagram two that looks behavior like three, but the motivations of why they're doing the things that they're doing are different. And that's key because then when they go, Oh, yeah, I am, you know, maybe I look like a very successful, motivated, efficient Enneagram three, but we have different motivations.
And now that I know what my actual motivation is. This makes so much sense on why I [00:08:00] approach projects the way I do. Why this person ticks me off, you know, why I've chosen my field of study. I mean, just so many things start to click. So integrative nine is the test that I use. It's validated. It's 95 percent accurate.
The cool thing about the Enneagram is you don't need a test to discover your type. Get a wonderful book by Beatrice Chestnut. It's called the complete Enneagram. You can also get another wonderful book, called. The Road Back to You by Ian Morgan Cron, and those can be great places just to start reading about these types.
And just start to notice what resonates with you. And just go out and live, live life, and just kind of, you know, see if that's accurate or not.
I love that. I mean, that's really, really helpful. And this is why I knew there was just so much, too much to back into the other episode that we were talking about to dive into Enneagram. So I want to get into a little bit, if you can help us. uncover and understand why is it so important in your mind that we understand and that this is [00:09:00] really the focus of Enneagram, what our motivations are, because a lot of people want to slap on the band aid, look at our behaviors, look at how we're interacting with one other people.
And dissect that, and you're backing it up to really what is motivating. So what is it about that motivational piece that is so important for people that want to grow, change, shift, better, reach success, you know, elevate themselves, whatever, whatever their motivation is. Why is it what their motivation is important to discovering how to motivate them?
Yeah. Well, would it be helpful, especially maybe you're some newbies? What if I walked through the nine types and said what motivated each type and I can give an example of how using that in our coaching has helped them move beyond that. Does that sound good?
that's amazing. That sounds excellent.
So Enneagram type ones, they're motivated by the need to learn.
To be good, to have integrity, to be kind of right, perfect and avoid mistakes. Like they don't want to be seen as corrupt. And so when I'm coaching Enneagram ones, [00:10:00] one of the things that they have an aha moment about is not everybody seeks this level of perfection that they do. They are motivated by the, uh, need to have things flawless and continually improve.
So as leaders, sometimes they'll walk into a room where a team has done really nice work and the team is really proud of themselves. And the one I'll be like, Oh yeah, but you missed that. And the one's mind. They're thinking, Oh, I'm just giving helpful feedback to get us to our highest standards, which is what makes great ones, great leaders.
But all their team heard was that's not good enough. So when ones as leaders understand that that's their motivation, they can start to recognize and kind of get into their highest self, as a leader by recognizing what is good enough, look like. What does good enough look like so that, you know, we can, maybe temper my perfectionistic expectations a bit type twos type twos are motivated by the need to feel loved, needed and appreciated.
And so what this causes Enneagram two leaders to do at their best honestly is to create killer workforces [00:11:00] where everybody feels loved, appreciated and taken care of. But what, because they're motivated by that, sometimes they can overemphasize their relationships with keeping people happy. So that they feel appreciated instead of making maybe really hard decisions, sometimes because they love to feel loved and appreciated.
They jump in and take on work. That's not their own as a leader, and that can keep them from being strategic. Enneagram threes fit very nicely into corporate America because corporate America is an Enneagram three culture. So Enneagram threes are motivated by the need to feel valuable and worthwhile to succeed and be the best at what they do.
To avoid failure or feel useless. So when my Enneagram three clients come to coaching lots of times, they are unhappy in their jobs because they've climbed the ladder of success. Because the world has promoted them to that success because they're so dang efficient and they want to do a great job and they want to get the gold stars.
But those threes have never actually asked them. Do I even want this? Like, is this even a life, my skills and talents, or am I just saying yes to [00:12:00] this, to impress somebody that I admire? Enneagram force. They're motivated by the need to find themselves and their authentic significance, like to create like this unique and original identity to express themselves, as individuals.
And so when Enneagram fours are in corporate America, sometimes I'll be honest, they struggle if they don't work in an organization that has a strong connection to purpose. Fours are motivated by originality and purpose. And so as leaders, they're brilliant because they make people feel like they're part of this unique and purposeful thing.
And so that's what motivates them is to create these purposeful, unique endeavors. And so when that's missing, they can feel really out of place. And a lot of times they feel out of place in corporate America because corporate America is a little bit void of those sorts of things. Enneagram fives. I am an Enneagram five.
They're motivated by the need to be capable and competent and independent. They do not want to rely on other people for resources and they want to avoid feeling overwhelmed. So fives I'll speak to fives. When I coach [00:13:00] Enneagram five leaders, including myself, they never believe they're competent enough.
So they will research, research, research, research, research, input, input, input, input, and never output anything. They will get stuck in a research cycle, thinking that they are not competent enough to take action. And so that hinders them as leaders, because even though they know a lot of things, sometimes they struggle to actually, to get into action on things.
Type sixes are motivated by the need to have security and support and reassurance to feel safe. They want to avoid being without security and support and security and support can look like good solid processes, a good rule book. It could also look like a solid team of coworkers. And so when I'm coaching Enneagram sixes, one of the things sometimes that they don't are, are great at is creating good systems and processes to create loyal teams and efficiencies, uh, because they're motivated to do so to create that security.
But where they can struggle sometimes is when they have to create something that doesn't have a rule book, or they want to make a change, but they're going to leave behind their old team. And so they can kind of hold themselves back, [00:14:00] fearing that they won't be without that support. And you grab sevens are motivated by the need to be satisfied and con uh, content.
To have their needs fulfilled, avoid pain. Mostly they want to avoid boredom. So sevens are the folks that work, that bring the fun. Okay. Sevens are visionaries because sevens bring this gift to the world where they can see all of the possibilities because they're motivated by excitement and doing new things and they don't want to get bored.
And that idea was yesterday, but where sevens can struggle as leaders in the workplace is they can be a leader. Who's constantly changing ideas for the, you know, all the newness of it, but they don't actually implement things. Type eight leaders. They're motivated by the need to protect themselves and to be in control of their own life and destiny They want to avoid weakness or being taken advantage of by others And so AIDS naturally make really great leaders in corporate America because they're like people I got a plan.
I'm in control I got this where AIDS sometimes though can struggle as leaders especially women Because Enneagram 8 is a very [00:15:00] masculine, so is Enneagram 5, a very masculine quality. Sometimes 8s are very in touch with their anger, they can be overly direct, they've often been called assertive, and they can sometimes put on this hard exterior and don't Approach teams or individuals with a lot of vulnerability.
And so sometimes that can hinder their connections. Finally, we've got type nine, type nine. They're motivated by the need to have inner stability and peace of mind. They want to create harmony. If you're a nine and you've listened to me, a good clue that you're a nine is you probably have such good perspective taking.
You may have Enneagram except for eight. They want to avoid conflict or being disconnected from others. Nines make tremendous leaders because they're so dang inclusive. They can get everybody's point of view and then make a decision from including everybody's point of view and move teams forward. But sometimes where a lot of my type nine leaders struggle is they are so conflict diverse.
They sweep things under the rug. They don't address real issues. you know, and sometimes they won't advance their [00:16:00] agendas for fear. It may conflict with somebody else's agenda. So that was just an overview of the Enneagram in action by motivation. And so maybe even when you were listening to that, you got some clues.
Oh, that sounds like me. Awesome. Go to the websites, go to a book, read about yourself, dig in and see if one of those things resonates with you as you research further,
Yeah. So you obviously Kelly think that this is so impactful that you spend the time you got certified, you continually read and research about this. Is there, one or two types that you have seen or know that are more prevalent in society than others or like any of them more rare or more heavily weighted?
the answer is, is we don't know because we only know what's been typed and reported now, some folks might say, okay, well, there's very few Enneagram fours or fives, but I think they will also then say, that's more of a microcosm of. One, they aren't interested. Two, they're not taking the test. They're one, they're two of the most introverted types on the [00:17:00] Enneagram.
So we maybe just don't hear from them as much. So no, we don't know the answer to that because not everybody's taken an Enneagram test. And so, you know, we just have to, you know, know that, you know, all types exist. And there's eight other ways of viewing the world besides yours. Now in corporate America, we see a lot of Enneagram threes and eights rise into positions of power, but you can be, and I have, but here's the thing.
I've coached leaders of all types that have been successful. So if you're not a three or an eight, like. No big deal. Like any type, and this is what I tell my clients can be a successful leader. If you are willing to overcome the blind spots and just move through the transformations and the ahas and the awareness that the Enneagram gives you, and you know, it's part of doing the work.
And that's why anybody can be a great leader, no matter what type you are.
Yeah. And so for women who are really interested and motivated to learn more, to see how this, you know, knowing more about their motivations can help them grow and learn and improve their lives and whatever facet, [00:18:00] how do you, how do you see this? Knowledge and understanding. how much can they dive into that?
and the impact on them as a mom. And as a spouse, as well as, as an employee and a leader.
Yeah. Well, I'm only just going to use myself as an example. I can't speak to everybody else. You know, my clients have their own journeys, but you know, in my journey of learning that I was an Enneagram five, I realized I was motivated by the need to be competent and capable. And so that led me to do a lot of over researching to really protect my time and energy.
So that I have would have a lot of introversion thinking time. And so as a mom, I would say, you know, If I would have known that I would have probably just been more aware. My daughter's very extroverted. I would have been more aware of how maybe my needs for a lot of alone time thinking, planning, reading, researching was maybe not all that helpful to her because she was an extroverted only child who [00:19:00] needed friend time.
And as us, as parents know, sometimes if, or if you've ever been around children, your children social means you are social too, many of the times, right? Because you're interacting with all the other parents and those sorts of things. And so I think that that maybe, you know, held me back from like fully engaging her in some things that maybe would have benefited her to be completely honest.
You know, as a leader and even starting my own business, recognizing I was an Enneagram five made me realize how much I would stall on things because I didn't feel like I knew enough. I didn't think I was ready enough. I didn't feel like I was smart enough. And I remember, you know, Learning the Enneagram is why I wrote my book because I wanted to write a book from the time I was a little girl, but I was like, Oh, I don't know.
It's not ready. I don't know enough. But when I can, the cool thing about the Enneagram is each number, and this is, this is Enneagram 2. 0, has what we call a growth number and a stress number. So for Enneagram 5, when I'm at my healthiest, I look like a healthy enneagram eight. And so what that means is I can let go of my bad habit of being greedy with my time and my energy and move into this [00:20:00] place of like not being so attached that I have this limited amount of energy and I can actually get into action and put myself out into the world like eights do eights are action oriented leaders.
And so when I was wanting to write my book, I would say. Okay, if I was putting on my Enneagram 8 hat, what would this look like? How would I just assert myself that I already know enough things and I can start the writing process? I don't need to read one more book. so in my own journey of transformation, just really understanding what my blind spots were, where I thought my ego needed. You know, these things and recognizing that that was just a lie. And there were other ways of living and being in the world was helpful. I will tell you my marriage, you know, my poor husband has to take every single thing that I'm into. He is in fact, an Enneagram one, and it has been transformational for our marriage.
I'll be honest, because number one, I started to recognize where I was hoarding my time and energy and saying, maybe notice some social events that were meaningful to him. And as a one, we can laugh and joke about his needs for like, Righteousness and [00:21:00] perfection and needing things absolutely perfect without taking any of it personally.
And that's the thing that I love about the Enneagram is it helps us stop taking things so personally. Like we literally laugh in our marriage. We're like, Oh, you're Enneagram one in it today. Aren't you? And he's like, Oh yeah. You know? I mean, it's just, it just adds humor to the whole dynamic. Cause you're like, gosh, none of this is about me.
It's about the lens that other people are looking through.
Yeah. Well, I think that's really, that was totally going to be my next question is, did you have your husband take it? because I do, you know, I have, experience with several of the other, personality tests types. I've also had my husband do them and it's really interesting to dive in and read some of it and say, Oh my gosh, that's so you, that's so you.
I know that it can take. some time to understand and not to not take it personal. but yeah, you know, there's always that saying that, opposites attract, but in reality, it's really a lot of times the longest standing relationships are often very similar, but you may not know it. Maybe your, [00:22:00] your motivations are the same, but the way you behave through them is different.
And so I think that would be really interesting to see, and cultivate through the Enneagram for people to understand that. Like, because often I know with, you know, you can use your own experience. Me and my husband will have arguments about stuff that is like the dumbest things. And it's like, we're not really saying like once you calm down and the dust settles, you're like, you're not really saying that much different.
You just have a different way of saying it. And Our goals are all almost always aligned. It's like, how do we get there through the communication process? And so, you know, as being a, you know, whole holistic life, it's really important for women to understand, you know, the career, understand the motherhood and understand the, the, relationship aspects.
So to the extent we can talk about those and bring those in, I think it's really helpful. And this gives us a solid base for not only improving that. I also was curious, did you have your daughter take it?
I have not. So my [00:23:00] daughter is almost 19. And I probably share the same school of thought that a lot of Enneagram teachers is, is, we, I have, I have a hunch that she's an Enneagram too, but I also don't want to have her take this test and label her as such before she's like fully an adult because then it creates this self fulfilling prophecy where it's like,
Yes.
Does that make sense? And so I'm, I'm cautious. I really encourage folks like let's maybe start dabbling this. Maybe when we get into college, we've got some like adult things going on, but I, I'm fairly certain she's an Enneagram too. And we have these discussions all the time. And you said something really important is yes, opposites attract, but when you value the same things.
That's where you can find common ground. So when we talk about family stuff, my daughter, again, now being an adult off on her own, she's done some things that weren't the smartest as we all did when we were 18, you know, and my
All of us.
will have conversations about this and as a one, he'd like, Nope, this is the way we're going to do it.
This is the process. This is the [00:24:00] right way. You know, where I might be like, Oh, there's a little gray area. Let's stand back. Let's wait and see what happens as a five. I want to observe things. I can see both sides. I can see a lot of gray area and he's a black and white. And we, we know this about each other.
I'm not saying anything that we don't talk about. And so we might, you're right. Get into a discussion about the right way, quote unquote, to handle something. But at the end of the day, you're exactly right. Our goals and values are the same. We value the same things when it comes to marriage and family and the outcomes.
We value the same things for our daughter. And this is the same with teams. So like when I go in and I do Enneagram training with teams, this is exactly why we get results is because at the end of the day, if the teams value have common values and share goals, we stop taking people's behavior, things less personally.
Like I've gotten into teams and like lots of times it's like, All the sales peoples are three and sevens. They're all assertive types. They're all out there like, you know, flashy selling all of that. Right. Well, and then they get ticked off at, let's say like the legal team. Cause we're like [00:25:00] legal sales prevention.
They don't want us to get new sales. Well, no, the legal person wasn't Enneagram one legal person's keeping you out of prison because they want to do the right thing. They want to make the right decisions. They want to have right contract language, right? Whereas sales is trying to get the deal done. So they look good.
And so when you can have common language that saying, Oh, legal doesn't hate me. Legal also wants to achieve my goals. But legal is keeping us safe. They're monitoring our contracts for errors so that this doesn't come back around to bite us. And legal can say salespeople are out there trying to close the deals.
They want to win because that's how the organization stays alive. And so when we can have names for this, and we know that none of this is personal, it helps us communicate better. It helps us have more empathy for our colleagues. And it really helps with, you know, reducing a lot of unproductive conflict in the workplace.
Mm
I love that. I'm like feverishly writing it down so I can remind myself of this quote is what I want to take away for everybody to share because I, I think that's so [00:26:00] great and it, and it just further indicates how important these things can do as we do this work on ourselves to figure these things out and figure out how we work and operate and communicate, where we stand with other people.
It really does help in all aspects of our life, you know, and I, I've had some of the same conflicts where I remember I, I got a report from my boss who I think knew me very well, you know, and I'm not, I like things to be done the right way. I'm a lawyer by background. but I also have a business mind where I know people need to make money.
So I was always straddling the middle ground, but in, in, in some ways I would be the gatekeeper of certain things and. I didn't know exactly who it was, but I got some feedback from my boss one time that I was too aggressive and I just, I just literally laughed. I was like, yeah, I don't think anybody is going to be surprised that knows me to hear that.
Maybe somebody said that, [00:27:00] but what surprised me was that somebody would dare go report this as if I offended them when it was very clear that I was working to protect the company. And that I simply was not going to agree with what they, I didn't tell them they couldn't do what they wanted to do. I just said, I'm not going to put it in writing that I agree with you, period.
Cause I don't. and, and if you call that, you know, if that's something to report, it's just like, but I had already done work at that point where like maybe my younger self may have been offended, may have been worried about, well, what does that mean? What is this get moving through the executive leadership?
Like what does that mean for my, the view of me? but I, it also, I had grown enough to take a step back and say, yes, I can be aggressive. I don't know exactly what conversation, cause I don't know who this person is. but could I be a little softer in my way, you know, and adjust that, because yeah, we are who we are, but at the same time, we all have to learn how to communicate differently because [00:28:00] clearly I offended this person somehow and that's why they felt the need to say something to somebody. So monitoring and updating the way we talk with different people in our lives, whether it's career work or even our, you know, I have three children and I do have to treat them slightly different the way they perceive and experience things is different. They are, it's so crazy having three kids, 21, each one of them are 21 months apart, but they're so vastly different.
Kelly
Mm hmm.
being a parent to children is definitely a mirror to you and where you need to learn and where you need to grow. but I do think that's really helpful for people to understand. All of this and how doing some work on this can really improve and help you get to where you're going. So I just love that you dive into this so much and are so in tune with this.
One of the other interesting things that I wanted to know, that's not necessarily on the corporate aspect, but you mentioned it, with Richard, [00:29:00] what was his name?
What?
that You know, he, he may be in the kind of spiritual genre. I have noticed in doing some research myself that it seems like in the religious and the spiritual space, the Enneagram is quite popular.
I was curious if you had a perspective on why
Yeah. Well,
about them with the Myers Briggs, right? It's not.
So the, the Enneagram has found stakes in the Religious community, but it is not religious in origin. It is, its origin is actually like ancient psychology. there's even like traces back to, uh, oh gosh, I can't, you're putting me in the spot. I can't remember the book, but anyways, no, the origins are not religious, but however, let me just make this link.
The reason why Religious communities tend to like it is because each type has a vice or what we call a bad habit. Okay, and [00:30:00] these vices or bad habits tend to align with what some religious groups would label as the seven deadly sins plus two. There are a lot of things like that language. So it's anger, greed, pride, deceit, gluttony.let's see. Oh, sloth. There's another one. and so I think that that's where it gets some of that language. There's a lot of like transformational spiritual language. And so that's why a lot of those religious communities have adopted it, but it is not inherently religious in nature. And there's honestly.
Even some religious communities that have like shunned the Enneagram because they're like, Oh, it's a replacement for our Bibles. And, you know, having a relationship with, you know, Jesus or whoever you follow, right? So what I really try to tell folks is this is not religious. Yes, the Enneagram does use terms sometimes in terms of growth called like a holy idea, but that doesn't mean religious idea.
Holy just means the highest idea. And so like, sometimes when I'm going into companies, I'm like, I say [00:31:00] the highest idea here is. And so it's the language sometimes I think that lends itself to religious communities, but it is not inherently religious.
Yeah. No, that's interesting. I appreciate that feedback because I was just curious. Noticing that trend. But now that makes sense. I was just trying to figure out the connectivity there because I knew it's an, it's an agnostic, you know, template it, it, yeah, it had nothing to do with the origins of religion, but it did seem to be widely adopted, in certain faiths and being utilized.
And you just didn't see that with any other kind of personality test. So I was curious what, if you had some feedback and that perfectly answers it, what else do you think is meaningful for women to know? about the Enneagram when it comes to work. I
Yeah. You know, one of the things that you asked the question deliberately says, what do you think you want women to know? Where it has [00:32:00] helped a lot of my women leader clients is they start to recognize that There are certain types on the Enneagram that go against maybe the feminine archetype. Okay, so let's just talk for just a moment about twos, sixes, and nines.
Enneagram twos are motivated by the need to feel loved and needed. Sixes, motivated by the need to have security and support. Type nines, motivated by the need to avoid conflict. So what that means is they have tendencies of behaviors to be warm, caring, supportive, loyal. And if you think about the feminine archetype, that tends to fit with feminine norms.
Okay. Then you have other types, specifically fives and eights, sometimes ones who don't necessarily fit that feminine archetype. Okay. So like as a five, One of the complaints about a five is that I've always been unemotional and blunt. And so as a woman that doesn't, hasn't served me well, because be like, well, she doesn't get social niceties.
She's [00:33:00] blunt. She's direct. Like, you know, if I was a dude, we'd have no problem. Same thing with AIDS. AIDS are often called very assertive, aggressive. And again, if you're a man, if it's masculine norms, and sometimes ones, ones can be exacting and they can be very direct with their feedback. And so if it is a female leader, they start to go, Oh, okay.
Like this is why maybe I haven't fit into these pockets of norms. I feel like I'm like constantly butting against, but I'm going to just offer that to the flip side because I coach men who are twos and sixes and nines and fours that don't typically fit a masculine ideal. And so they've always just felt like, not, not odd, but just not right.
Like I had just always been more sensitive and attuned to people's needs than my male counterparts have. And so I think sometimes when it comes to like gender in the workplace, it helps name some of the reasons why we don't fit into those certain gender norms. But again, it just also says, okay, well, we're not going to change you given that you are an Enneagram five and you're direct and you tend to be unemotional, you know, that's a superpower of yours.[00:34:00]
So let's talk about what your strengths are and let's not change that. But let's also talk about what your leadership values are at work so that you can blend like I'll just talk about me personally. So like my core values, my leadership values are love, respect, family, creativity and learning. So I had to learn how to blend my directness.
With respect, like how can I be direct and respectful? How can I be direct and loving? I'm not going to change that. No, I'm talking to eights. How can I be assertive and balanced? How can I be assertive and attuned? Whatever your values are. And so that's really how we start to use the Enneagram, you know, for maybe some of those more gender based things, uh, that come up for us at work.
mean, I'm really leaning into that because I will tell you, Kelly, that has been my number one, probably struggle in life is just hit it on the nail on the head. How can you be direct and so respectful? I mean, I feel that that [00:35:00] takes me back to even talking to my mom. Like, What do you mean? I'm not respecting you.
What do you actually mean? I'm just telling you exactly what is on my mind. And to me it was always that like putting it out there, utter transparency. This is who I am. I do not shy away from that. I believe that sharing your opinion is what a good friend, family member, caring person does.
Yeah. Let's pause there for a moment. Do you know your number? Have you
I, I don't, I was trying to look at the book because I did not take the paid one yet. And I had a book from the free one and I feel like it was an eight. But I can't find the
So when you said that, let's just pause for a moment because this is where the rubber hits the road. You said a kind and caring person shares their opinion because it's important that aids would say that ones would say that, however, if you were an Enneagram too, you would say, I have an opinion, but that opinion is going to hurt someone's feelings.
So I need to keep my [00:36:00] mouth shut. That's the kind of thing to do. So that's where like we can start to have conversations and teams or in families to say, Okay. No, like this individual is not meaning to disrespect you. A little bit of conflict is their love language. And for an eight, that's true. And so to an eight, it's like, Oh no, I'm going to tell you because that's the kindest thing to do.
We're going to be clear around here, people. Cause if we're not clear, I'm going to get ticked off. Whereas a two was like, Oh, I'm going to withhold any opinions because I just want to be liked and appreciated. I want to make sure that there's team harmony. Everybody's getting along. That's the kindest thing to do.
And when you can start to recognize that there's two different world views there and neither one is correct. That's where you can start to meet in the middle and, you know, Start to have more shared understanding.
Yes. And it, and it also brings to light, you know, that of course, you know, you're a woman, I'm a woman, you're beautiful. I can't even believe that you have a 19 year old daughter. You do not look old enough for that. and it's, you know, we all want to worry about. Staying young and vibrant and, and, and youthful, but getting older and having the worldview and having the [00:37:00] experience and the knowledge. I know a lot of people say, but I really could never trade that in the world. And that just reminded me, I'm going to see if I can get my oldest and best friends to take the test too. We've known each other since I was five and she was four because we had an argument once when I was 24 or so. And I told her something at the time I did not know that.
She was sensitive about this at all. She had never shared it. I'm wondering now if she is more on the two, six side. She had never said anything. She was talking to me about her boyfriend and the relationship. And I just said what I thought, like, why is she talking to me about this? Unless she wants some feedback. I did not talk to her again for like, I don't know, 15 months. It was the first time in our entire lives. And finally, after all this time, I sent her a little gift. Her grandparents live next door to me or to my parents. I sent her this little gift and was like, you know, I really miss you. I don't know what happened.
I really didn't know what happened [00:38:00] until she told me later that I had said something to the effect negative about her relationship, trying to help her. Wanting the best for her. And it just totally hit her wrong. She agreed that she probably took it wrong as well, but it was a big learning, uh, curve for me to having a little bit more feel reading what somebody else is giving the vibes, whatever it is before you say stuff.
and I'm not perfect still, of course.
Dang it. None of us are crap.
but I do try to be a little bit more understanding of sharing my opinions when they're not asked for. It still sometimes can be very hard where I'm like, Ooh, I see the wreck that is about to happen here. And as your friend, I owe it to you. To tell you, this is not going well, but if the person is not ready to receive it, they're not going to receive it.
And it goes to leadership too. I could tell somebody [00:39:00] all day long that the reason you're not growing or succeeding or not getting the promotion you're putting in for is because of these, these things that you're doing. And those are not that hard to fix, but if they're not open and ready. What good is it going to do other than souring our relationship?
So, you know, again, it works as much in the personal and the professional, and I have learned, so I've shared a story about my professional and now my personal, it goes both ways. but I am going to have to get on that and take the test now.
Yes. Let us know.
I know, everybody take the test. Well, that is excellent.
I think this was a great introduction and really not even an introduction. This is like 201 level, Enneagram stuff. You guys, Kelly works with people on an individual and a corporate level. If this is something interesting to you guys for information, we'll be in the show notes. Is there anything else that you want to leave a parting information, on this for the audience, Kelly, before we sign off.
The only thing I'll say, and I say this every time we talk about the [00:40:00] Enneagram is that leaders, and remember, you don't have to manage people to be a leader. You're a leader in any place you influence others. Okay. And that could be your, your kids, your friends, your workplace, whatever
Leaders cannot develop others to a higher level. Then they've developed themselves. And so that's why the Enneagram has been so transformational is we start to do all this self and inner work to develop ourselves to a higher level. And that frees everyone else to do the same. So have fun with it.
I love it. I think it's brilliant. I love it. I really do. I think it's really insightful. I have so many notes to take away and thoughts about where we can further take this, with, you know, reaching down and encouraging people to learn about this and how it can prove no matter where you are in your life, because some people may be in a holding pattern.
Some people may be stay at home moms. Some people may still be working hard to, you know, get into the ivory tower that is executive leadership. It's not really an exact [00:41:00] ivory tower. You guys, that's what people feel like that sometimes. And like, they're just normal people too, and you can be there. but I really think it's impactful and that's why I wanted to have this conversation as always.
I am so thankful that you shared your time with us. This is so brilliant. So amazing. You guys, Kelly is exactly as she appears. It's so easy to talk to, so easy to work with. So if you have any interest and definitely go buy her book in the meantime, go check it out, get yourself tested, read more about it, and you know, do a little bit of inner work because everybody can continue to get clear on where they want to go, what their values are, own their worth and become the CEO of their own lives, no matter where you are in life or where you want to go.
I truly, truly, truly believe. that you can achieve it. Just have to put a little elbow grease in there and do the work. So maybe this will motivate you guys. Thank you so much. Have a good afternoon. Keep getting [00:42:00] clear.