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Personal finance expert Tammy Barton, shares life changing money stories and looks at how money can transform every aspect of daily life.
By any standard that you wanna measure me against most of the world, I'm rich. I live in a nice house that I can afford to pay for. I don't have to worry about putting food on the table. This is the kind of rich I wanna be. I wanna be, hey.
Wil:Let's go and have brunch. Rich. Mhmm. I wanna be, hey, mom. I'll help you pay for the crack in your windscreen.
Wil:That's the sort of rich I wanna be, and that's the sort of rich I am. Yep. I don't wanna be any richer than that. It looks complicated.
Tammy:Welcome to my money, My Story, where we chat to some amazing people about their money story and hear just how much money can really impact your life. And I'm your host, Tammy Barton, founder and director of My Budget.
Danielle:We begin today by acknowledging the Kaurna people, traditional custodians of the land on which we are recording our podcast today. We pay our respects to their elders past and present, and we would like to extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
Tammy:Today on My Money, My Story, we're chatting with Will Patterson, who at 40 was living in Melbourne's Eastern Suburbs when he was arrested for embezzlement. Now after serving a prison sentence, Will came home and he rebuilt his life. Now his story is one of resilience and transformation. After hitting rock bottom, Will found the strength of character to take control of his life, and his journey reminds us that it's never too late to ask for help and make a fresh start. So, Will, thank you for being here to share your story with us.
Tammy:Let's start at the beginning. What did life look like for you before everything changed? What was ordinary life like for you?
Wil:Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. Life was I think a lot of people would have recognized my life. I I lived in a nice area in the Outer Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne. I was married.
Wil:I had a young son. We had a mortgage. We'd been lucky enough to, receive an inheritance, and we'd bought a house down the coast, a little beach shack. We both worked full time, and we had lots of debt. We had one mortgage.
Wil:We had credit cards, all of those sort of things. And, you know, so the happinesses of life were very normal, and the pressures of life were very normal. But the pressures of life started to mount. And I think, again, it's probably something I think a lot of people would recognize is you you can't pay that credit card this month, but you'll pay this one. And you've gotta get that mortgage payment paid so you can let your insurance lapse for two weeks because they won't cancel it until it's the third week, and then you can pay that with your next payer.
Wil:All of that that pressure was definitely starting to have an impact on us before I turned our lives upside down with what I did.
Tammy:Do you wanna get into that now? Do you wanna talk about, you know, it's that that moment where, you know, you felt like things were getting out of control financially, and then there was some events, I suppose, that happened that that led you to do some things that you later you obviously came to regret, but it has obviously shaped the person that you are, who is an amazing human being, by the way.
Wil:Thank you. That's definitely true. So we'd missed a mortgage payment. The bills were piling up. I wasn't sure how to get out of it.
Wil:My my son's mum, who I'm not with anymore, certainly wanted a particular sort of lifestyle. I would say that for a period of time, we weren't keeping up with the Joneses. We were the Joneses that other people kept up with, and we allowed ourselves to get swept up in that. And after we'd missed this mortgage payment, we'd almost finished a renovation on our kitchen, and there was bills piling up for that, and I didn't know how it was all I managed the money. That was a terrible idea, by the way, because I'm not good at managing money.
Wil:But I did, and I didn't know what to do. And I worked for an insurance company, and one of the things that I did was that if we sent a check out to you because we bumped into your car and you didn't live where we sent the check anymore, the check would come back to us, and I would cancel them. And in the midst of all this crisis, a check landed on my desk in my name. The the check said, Will Patterson. And it was for just under $3,000.
Wil:It wasn't a huge amount of money. And I just sat staring at it. What what I should have done, it should have taken twenty seconds. Cancel it cancel it on the system, throw it in the shredder. Done.
Wil:Mhmm. And I didn't. And what I did was I put it in a drawer in my desk, and I locked that drawer. And I went about my business for the day, and I I did that for two days. And all I could think about was that could be a way out.
Wil:You know? There's this well known criminology theory by two guys called X and Felson that's about the triangle of opportunity that you that you've gotta have a need. You've gotta have an opportunity, and then you've gotta have the willingness to do it. And so on the third day, I took that check and I banked it. And that night, I was laying in bed going, I know I've done the wrong thing.
Wil:Like, there was never any doubt in my whole journey that I knew I was doing the wrong thing. I've gotta do something about it. I've gotta go into it tomorrow and tell them that I did this. They might fire me. They might let me give it back.
Wil:I don't know what's gonna happen. They might understand. I've been there for thirteen years, but I didn't. And nothing happened. No one noticed.
Wil:No one. And then when my next mortgage payment was coming up, I went into our payment system, and I drew a check to that guy because I knew that it would come back to me. And that's when the real fraud and theft started. That was when my spiral really started.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:And eighteen months later and and almost $300,000
Tammy:Wow.
Wil:I was finally taken into a room with some forensic accountants and with, my boss. And they said to me, we wanna talk to you about some transactions. And by then, I was so desperate for it to stop because I didn't know how to stop it. It had just become normal and greed, and
Tammy:I was
Wil:used to the money. And I I was so self absorbed that there was a period of time when I got angry at them at work because I thought if they wanted to catch me, they could. And that must mean that they want me to have this money. Like, how self absorbed and and pathetic is that? And so I was so relieved.
Wil:I said to them, whatever you're about to ask me, I did it. And and that and that's when the that's when everything changed.
Tammy:So when you were getting the money, were you using that to pay bills or to, you know, fund a lifestyle?
Wil:Yes and yes.
Tammy:Yep. Bit of both. Yeah. So using credit cards
Wil:to
Tammy:live and then getting
Wil:We had a beautiful overseas trip to Japan. Yeah. We we had we bought a jet ski. Stupid stuff as well as life stuff because because it went from I'm gonna sound like a politician because I'm gonna give you a three word quote, but it went from need to greed.
Tammy:Yeah. You
Wil:know, you do it at the first because you meet that necessary stuff in that triangle that you've got the opportunity and the need, but then it becomes no one caught me or no one caught me again or no one caught me again. And now I can have this money, and that can just be part of my lifestyle. And I can be the Joneses again.
Tammy:Yeah. But you're obviously feeling guilty. Just wondering probably you probably knew that it would
Wil:I didn't know how it was at first, I didn't know how I could end it. Then I got to a point where I didn't want it to end, and then I got to a point where I must have been an awful person to be around. I'm sure I was. I've I've spoken to my son's mum since. And I've and and this incident happened nearly oh, it's ten years ago, and I was a horrible husband.
Wil:I was a bad person, a dreadful person to be around because of all the stress and the secrets that I was carrying.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:And I knew I was doing the wrong thing, and I didn't know how to stop. By the end, I didn't know how to stop. It would have been so simple. I would have gone to my best friend, and I would have said, mate, I've done this. Right?
Wil:And then he would have slapped me because fair enough, and then we would have fixed it. Yeah. And I probably would have got the same outcome because the outcome is what I deserved. Yeah. But we could have stopped it before I got to $300,000 and a broken marriage and a you know?
Tammy:Yeah. Yep. Yep. Well, thank you for being so honest and and raw with that because it's not easy to admit your mistakes. And we all make mistakes, but admitting them and even talking about them is very courageous, and it takes someone really, brave to do that.
Tammy:So firstly, thank you for doing that.
Wil:It's alright.
Tammy:So at that point, what what what happened next in your
Wil:So I just wanna say something about that about mistakes. From the moment I admitted what I was doing was wrong and told the truth, my whole life's turned around. From that moment, I've had grace and care and support from people when I've had no right to expect it, and I'm sure we'll talk about it. But it's it that that's the thing that turned my life around. What I learned was that the shame of what you think people are gonna do is way worse than what people are actually gonna do.
Wil:Yeah. Right? It's it's so in that moment, my wife worked for the same company. And so the forensic accounts had already gone through her before they went through me because I had stolen her passwords to continue my theft.
Tammy:Uh-huh.
Wil:So they had to make sure I wasn't involved. She wasn't involved. Sorry. Then they made me ring her. Once they'd finished discussing things with me, they made me ring her on the speakerphone and tell her what had happened and that that it was me.
Wil:And at the time, I thought that's so cruel. How could that be so cruel? But they needed to hear whether or not she was genuine, that she didn't know what was going on. Yep. And then I had to work out because I had a job where I had a company car, everything, company phone.
Wil:And so I had to work out, how am I gonna get home from work? Because she's already left. So I had to ring my dad who lives 40 k's from my work and say, dad, something dreadful's happened at work. I need you to drop everything and come. Right?
Wil:And my dad my dad loves through action. He doesn't he doesn't say I love you. Mhmm. It's it's one of the we he he and I had a stand up argument about it in as part of this journey that he doesn't tell you that he will love you, but he does stuff. And he dropped everything and he came.
Wil:Yep. And and he drove me home where where my wife was waiting who said, you've actually ruined our lives, and I need you out of the house for a while, which fair enough. Mhmm. And so I walked out the front and said to my dad, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know where I'm gonna go.
Wil:And he said, don't be stupid. You're gonna come and live at my house. And he just made space for me in his life.
Tammy:And That's amazing.
Wil:Yeah. That's
Tammy:I think that's that's what parents do. Right?
Wil:The good the good ones. I strive to be like him. I you know? Yeah. He's one of my heroes.
Tammy:Or what you hope parents would do.
Wil:Yeah. That's right.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so speaking of your your your parents, and we we didn't start that far back. No.
Tammy:But I suppose was there any moments that happened in your life that led you to, you know, have the relationship with money that you had?
Wil:I don't I don't
Tammy:I don't care. Something that just over time it was just I
Wil:I've always had a how I deal with this now is, having had all this happen, is I I behave as if my desire to steal is a a addiction. And it's not it's not really a desire to steal. It's a desire to take the easy way out. I can always see the easy road and the hard road. You know?
Wil:And the hard road is often the one I take, but it's it's what looks like the easy one at a time. And so I treat it like I, you know, like, I I will often get up and at some time in the morning, I will go, I'm not gonna steal anything today. Just in my own head. I'm not gonna take the easy way out today. I I treat it like an addiction because it's always been in me.
Wil:I've always had that desire to take the easy way out if I can get away with it.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wil:And but I that's not on my parents. Yeah. I mean, my parents separated when I was little, and we grew up live living with dad and spending time with mom. But it was very balanced, and they were very supportive, and I'd it's not on them because my sister's not like me.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I wasn't leaning towards whether it was your parents.
Tammy:It just might have been money was tight or
Wil:which it was. You You know, we grew up my dad was a school teacher, and we grew up with him, so we didn't have a lot of spare cash.
Tammy:Yeah.
Wil:But, yeah, I don't think it's the thing in me isn't about theft. I think it's about taking the easy way out.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what were the emotions you were feeling as the financial pressure built up, and did that affect any of your decision making?
Wil:You get these bands of stress across your chest. That's how I feel it. Like, it's like a rack that's tightening on your chest.
Tammy:You know? It
Wil:makes it hard to breathe. It makes it hard to concentrate. It you you've always got it in the back of your mind. How am I gonna I know this bill's coming next week, and I've got no money to pay for it. What am I gonna do?
Wil:And how am I gonna and then my wife wants this in the next pay, and I don't think we're gonna be able to afford that. So how am I gonna have that argument with her? It's just miserable
Tammy:Yeah.
Wil:All the time. Yeah. I I reckon there's a lot of people in the world that aren't real good at budgeting. I'm one of them. No.
Wil:That's why I had to highlight it with you guys. There's a bit of a step between where we're up to in the story and landing with you guys, but, you know, I'm one of them. And and I think it causes a lot of stress in a lot of marriages.
Tammy:Oh, absolutely. It's
Wil:it's one of the big killers, I reckon.
Tammy:It is the well, it's up there in the top two things that cause divorce in Mhmm. In families. And in fact, if they if we could measure the stat, I would like to measure the stat of our clients' divorce rates versus the general population. Yeah. We haven't worked out how we can do that because I think the feedback from our clients is we keep a lot of marriages together because they're not fighting about money.
Wil:Yep. And it was too late for that one for me. But the lady I'm married to now, there's there's been a couple of times when she said to me, oh, I reckon I could I could manage that. I could probably do what my budget do. And I go, nope.
Wil:Yeah. Don't want you to. And she's, why not? I said, because I don't have to think about it. I it's just something I don't have to think about it.
Wil:And you don't have to think about it, and our bills get paid, and let's not try. We've got it. It works.
Tammy:Yep. Absolutely. We had a client once who this is when I was first starting out.
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:And he left us because he got together with a partner who said, I'll manage the money.
Wil:Yep.
Tammy:And they broke up maybe twelve months later, and he rang my budget. And he said, you're the first people I've rung. I haven't even told my parents who have broken up. I just need to join my budget again. I know I can't.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. I can't do it.
Wil:Yeah. Yeah.
Tammy:Yeah. Which is which is funny. He's like, I need to come back.
Wil:You gotta know you can't do it. If you don't ride a motor if you can't don't know how to ride a motorbike, don't ride a motorbike. You're gonna hurt yourself. Right? Yep.
Wil:And if you can't budget, get someone to help you out.
Tammy:And and
Wil:it's because you know what? You're gonna hurt yourself.
Tammy:Exactly. And it and it's okay to say
Wil:Yeah. I'm not good at this. I'm not
Tammy:good at this. Yep. And I need some help. And I think a lot of people struggle with that in all different parts of their life, not just about about money, but it takes that brave, courageous person who can go, can you help me with this?
Wil:Absolutely.
Tammy:And then once you learn to do that, your life becomes so much better.
Wil:Well, I didn't even I wasn't even brave enough to do that, to be honest. I went to Westpac, who were my bank at the time, and said to them, I'm in trouble. I can't pay this. I'm I'm only earning this much money. You know?
Wil:I had we've jumped to the bit where I went to jail and came out. I don't wanna ruin the end for you, but I did come home. And they actually recommended my budget. The lady that was the financial adviser asked where at Westpac said to me, we can't actually help you with what you're asking for, but go and call these people because they're gonna help you out.
Tammy:Well, thank you to that person, that Westpac.
Wil:Yeah. Bigger thanks from me than you. I promise you.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. So we we we just go back. So you've admitted what you've done. Yep.
Tammy:You and your wife separate. And then, obviously, there was a process that you went through Mhmm. Where do you wanna talk through that?
Wil:Yeah. That was hard and funny. And and that that's that's a crazy thing to say that all the way through this journey, there's been really funny moments. So it was there was quite a period of time. I got I got, arrested in the September, and I went to prison in the following March.
Tammy:So that that seems quick. That's Was it because you
Wil:That's yeah. Because I admitted it.
Tammy:It and then Yeah.
Wil:So we didn't there was no case. They it was just it was just hearings and sentencing.
Tammy:Right.
Wil:But that's actually a long time when you're waiting for what you know is your fate. Because the first time I went to see a solicitor, the solicitor said to me, you are going to jail. My job is not to keep you out because you're going. My job is just to reduce the sentence as much as I can, and I was like, woah. And my my my best friend, I rang him, when I got to my dad's place that first night, and he did exactly what I thought he would do.
Wil:He came over and he said to him, me, I'm not gonna punch you now, but there'll be a moment when I do. But let's sit down and talk about what's happened. And then he made a couple of phone calls and said, right. I'm picking you up at 08:30 tomorrow. We're gonna see solicitor, and I'm paying for it until you get back on your feet.
Wil:So there's an example of that grace and
Tammy:Oh, kind.
Wil:Kindness that I got when I didn't deserve it. I'd just thrown a hand grenade into everybody's lives. I'd been lying to everybody for eight months. I didn't deserve that sort of kindness, but I got
Tammy:it. And
Wil:so we he went to that meeting with me, and we we did all that. And one of the things that Solicitor said to me was, pause your health insurance because you you can't claim it while you're in jail. So Yeah. Pause it. So I go to the health insurance, and there was a lady there that looked like you know that character in Monsters Inc who's the slug?
Wil:The
Tammy:Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Karen, I think her name is. I'll know.
Wil:She talks like that.
Tammy:Yeah.
Wil:So she was like that, and she's like, why would you want to cancel your health insurance? And I looked her dead in the eye and said, because I am going to prison. And she sat back in her chair so quickly. But the funny bit that was funny. But the funniest bit was on the form that you fill in, there is just a box that says incarceration.
Wil:It is as simple as ticking a box, and then you've you've paused your health insurance. It's crazy how simple it is. It must be so much more common than what we think.
Tammy:Yeah. Well, it would be. Think about, I suppose, how many people are incarcerated.
Wil:Yep.
Tammy:They probably most of them had a lot of them probably had health insurance.
Wil:People like me, right, who commit white collar crimes, who are, you know, middle aged, middle class, privileged white men. Yeah. And and so that's so so you sort things out from that sort of that September to the March. You sort of sort things out. And then I got to the hearing, and I went to the hearing, and then they say, you've gotta come back for sentencing.
Wil:And I was like, thank goodness, because I wasn't actually ready to go into jail today. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't I and so I I got on to Corrections Victoria's website, which has a page that is a checklist of what you should do when you're going to jail. Very helpful. Like, it it's not called, so you're going to jail, but it should be called that.
Wil:And so I went through
Tammy:give them the feedback.
Wil:Yeah. I went through some of that checklist. They're like, wear a belt that's easy to take off because they'll take it away from you. Make sure you've got money in your pocket because if you've got money in your pocket, it can go straight onto your phone account and you'll be able to ring people, you know, things like that. Really practical things.
Wil:So you get ready. And then on the day, I went to the court, and I'd had a bag ready. And the judge stood me up, and she just said, I'm gonna sentence you to a period of immediate incarceration. And then she said three years, and then I stopped listening. And as it what turned because my brain just switched off.
Wil:I'm going to prison for three years. What it actually was was the majority of my sentence was suspended because it was my first my my first crime. I only had to serve nine months inside. The rest of it was suspended. But you go that day.
Wil:You know? You go through the double doors behind you, not back into the courtroom. This lady was very, very kind, and she let me hug my family, which they're not supposed to do. They're not supposed to let you out of the doctor, hug your family. You know?
Wil:And I hugged my sister, and we lied to each other and told each other it was gonna be okay. You know? I'll I had my best friend who took me to the solicitors that day, and he whispered in my ear, is there anything on your laptop I need to delete? Because he didn't want me to be embarrassed by my web search history while I was away. And then you go to jail.
Wil:Boom. And you're off. And
Tammy:I I can't even imagine, you know, what that would what that would feel like. But I guess I mean, you have time to prepare, but nothing prepares you, I suppose No.
Wil:Not at all.
Tammy:For that.
Wil:And then and then the first thing that happens to you is you get given a cup of tea. And it's really hot and it's really sweet. And and I think its impact is to raise your blood sugar level again. Mhmm. For me, certainly, it stopped me from wanting to fight.
Wil:And they put you in a cell for about an hour that's perspex. The whole cell's see through. And it's a it's a risk management cell. It's the one that they assess whether you're gonna be a risk to yourself. You're gonna try and hurt yourself because of the shock or any of that sort of stuff.
Wil:Mhmm. And I found out later it's also the cell where they decide whether or not you're innocent or guilty. So because guilty people sleep because the worst thing that could've happened to them has happened to them. And that's what I I went I laid down, went to sleep for the time that I was in that cell. I was so exhausted.
Wil:I just fell asleep. Yeah. And they'd and one of the guards at the prison I ended up had said to me, oh, they would have judged you as guilty right then
Tammy:because they You you admitted
Wil:they I knew I was guilty. I was one of the few I was one in the few of the whole prison system who admitted that I was guilty. They actually did what I was charged with. Yeah. Yeah.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. And so I I'm sure that wasn't a nice experience, but you accepted the consequences
Wil:Yeah. That's
Tammy:right. Of your actions.
Wil:And I think that's another thing that's led me to getting the sort of support and kindness and love that I've received. This is that I went I did this thing. Right? I've been lying to you for long enough. I did this thing, and I'll take the consequences of whatever it is.
Wil:And
Tammy:I think, you know, I mean, your example is a more extreme example, but you could take inspiration from that Mhmm. In so many ways. I've I I I try and teach my kids, if you make a mistake, you just admit it. Mhmm. You might get in trouble, but you're not gonna get in much as much trouble if you lie about it or
Wil:you try and
Tammy:hide it. And you feel so much better
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:If you just admit to, oh, I did that or I did that wrong, and you just bring it up, and you get it off your conscience.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:And, it makes you just
Wil:feel a little bit better. Churchill said once in a in a address that he was giving to the school that he went to, mistakes aren't shameful.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:And and we we don't believe that in society that that mistakes aren't shameful. And and that's the problem. It's I made a dreadful mistake, and the shame of admitting it to anybody meant that I made so much more of a mistake.
Tammy:Yes.
Wil:And and it was the moment when I admitted it and chose to live life a different and and I wouldn't have been able to choose life a different way had I have not gone to prison. Yeah. I think that if if the judge had have sentenced me to a fully suspended sentence, I don't think it would have had the impact on me particularly Yeah. Than having nine months away from everything I cared about had on me. Yeah.
Wil:And I I I have to say, I have had a tailwind my whole damn life. I am white straight from a good family in Australia.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:By every metric that you can measure, I am privileged. Even my prison experience was privileged. Mhmm. I went to the prisons that everyone goes to when you first go through and are getting assessed. And then I went to a place which was a farm in in the country town in Beechworth.
Wil:Literally, it's 250 acre farm. It has cows. It has goats. It has a wildlife rescue center. It has a kitchen.
Wil:You work in the community. That's a privilege
Tammy:to create. It's almost like farm to table. Yeah. Yeah. In the prison.
Wil:More like farm to sell.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Farm to sell. Yeah. That Was it really?
Tammy:You you grew your own food and
Wil:We had veggie gardens. We had cattle that so the cattle lived there, and there was a slaughterhouse at one of the other prisons, and they used the meat in the prison system. But that prison is is about it's a transition for people that have been in jail for a long time, and they it's finally getting out. So they go and work in the community and start to learn Right. Some things.
Wil:Yeah. And it's a prison for idiots like me, who are white collar first timers that just need to be in prison for a little while, and and they don't wanna be responsible for them getting bashed or
Tammy:In a in the mainstream.
Wil:To to get drugs or all that sort of awful stuff that happens in the big prisons.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm sure it's still it's still a bit
Wil:shocking. But but let's temper it with a little bit of reality. It was privileged shocking.
Tammy:And and you no doubt had some time to think and reflect
Wil:A lot.
Tammy:Through that Yeah. Period and decide how you want your life to be and changes that you need to make.
Wil:So much of that. Yeah. And for me, it was just about don't let shame win. You know? Live your life the way you give give back to the world what they've given to you since you admitted that you were wrong.
Tammy:I love that. Don't let shame win.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:What was the thing you said after that? Don't let shame win.
Wil:Be honest.
Tammy:Be honest.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:I mean, that's powerful. I've got a question at the end, so I'm gonna come back to that. So you you've spent is there anything else through that was there any moments through that journey that you would like to share as part of your money story or your story in general?
Wil:The the story in general, I guess, that the the the thing I discovered when I was in prison is that most people are just people. So the first day I was at, it's called the Melbourne Assessment Prison. It's in the city, and it's the one they take you to straight from the court, and it's everybody. I didn't want I was too scared to walk around the yard because I'd seen lots of prison movies, and I know what happens when you walk around the yard. And I finally was brave enough with my cellmate to walk around the yard, and we were resolutely ignored by everybody because nobody cares about you.
Wil:They're all in there dealing with their own stuff too. They've only just come into the map, and they're normal human beings. Yeah. And I'm not a threat,
Tammy:which I was
Wil:a little bit offended by, but I'm not a threat. And and when I got to Beach Resort, like, there was times when we had laughs. There was a night when there was eight of us. We we lived in a shared at it's a lodge that's got eight cells in it, but it's got a, like, a shared lounge trimming kitchen area, and you prepare meals and stuff. So we were sitting after dinner playing Monopoly, and I looked around and went, five of us are in here for embezzlement, and we're playing Monopoly.
Tammy:We are.
Wil:This can't go well. This isn't gonna go well. But that was funny. And there were funny moments, and there were sad moments, and there was, you know, heartwarming moments, and there was there was there was a moment. And there's this whole economy in prison because it's not money.
Wil:So if you if you if you need help from someone, you invite them to your unit for a coffee, and you don't give them the garbage international roast that the prison provides. You give them the coffee that you've bought from the cafe the from the canteen, and then you ask them for what you need. But that's the that's the That's the attic. System. Right?
Wil:There there was a a young bloke who lived in the lodge that I lived in, and he came in to me one day, and he goes, Patter, you're smart. I'm like, oh, look. I do alright. And I go he goes, they call you professor. You must be smart.
Wil:And I'm thinking, I'm gonna get hit because I'm smart. And this guy's huge, big man blocking the whole doorway, and he handed me some letters. And I said, do you want me to read these? And he goes, yep. And I opened them up, and they were from his son.
Wil:And he said to me, I don't know words. I'm like, well, I said, can you not don't you know how to write, mate? And he goes, no. I'm like, so you want me to help write back to him? Yep.
Wil:So I was the first person he'd been in prison for nine years, and I was the first person he was brave enough to ask to do that. And so we wrote back to his son. We wrote back to his mum. You know, before I left, because he'd written back to his mum, his mum had come to visit him because she thought he didn't care because she wasn't writing back. Yep.
Wil:And and one day, I came back from the job I was doing. I worked in the kitchen. I came back, and there was a little bag of lollies tied on the door handle of my cell. And he and I never talked about it Mhmm. Because he didn't wanna talk about the fact that, you know and he didn't want me to help him learn to write.
Wil:He just knew that I could help solve his problem. And the barter system was, I've got a little bag of lollies. You know? So money works in jail. It's just different.
Tammy:Well, that's still thoughtful of him, isn't it?
Wil:It is. Oh, and he was just human. You know? He was It it comes back to what I just said. He was ashamed Yeah.
Wil:That he couldn't. There's no way he would have admitted that to one of the boys that he went and pumped pumped weights with.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wil:And and if I had said anything about it, god help me.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could imagine.
Wil:You know? Otherwise, my Yeah. As my grandfather would have delightfully quoted, I would have got my nose broken by my mouth.
Tammy:That's another good saying.
Wil:Yeah. So so that's the that was the thing that that so many people in there are just ordinary, and they've suffered whatever. They've got their own story. Yep. They're all the the the expression that I learned in prison was do your own time.
Wil:Yeah. And Yeah. And that means something in prison. What it means is you don't borrow off people. You don't lend to people.
Wil:You don't get in people's way. You don't get in people's hands. You just do your time the way you wanna do it Yeah. And then go home to your family. And I think that's true.
Wil:I can carry that into my life as well. Like, I'm doing my own time now. I'm I'm living my life the way I wanna live it, and that's that's that's enough for me.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Which is which is really important. People should be able to live their life the way they wanna live it.
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:So speaking of living life
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:The way that you want, you get out of prison, and then what happens after that?
Wil:When you work in prison, you get paid I was I was in a kitchen, so I was getting paid well. So I got paid $4.30 or $5.30 a day, I think it was. And they keep half that, and they give you half of it to spend at the canteen. So when you come home, you have a check for you know, I wasn't there for that long, so my check was about $40. So I came home with that.
Wil:And one of my friends who I probably hadn't seen for three or four years had contacted my dad and said, when Will comes home from jail, I can offer him a job. It'll be only for three months, but I can offer him a job and I'll help him get him back on his feet. If not for that, it would have been so easy to take one of the jobs that one of the guys I knew from prison offered me, and it could have turned out so differently. But, again, I got this kindness when I didn't have any Yeah. Choice.
Wil:You know, I didn't I didn't have any right to expect that. So I had very little money. I this guy gave me an opportunity to get a job. And so the first thing that happened was I immediately forgot everything that I'd learned while I was inside. And I got I bought a motorbike, and I got a loan for a car, and I did all that while I was at this job so I had payslips.
Wil:And then I left this job, and I didn't have a job, and then everything went south because I was I was straight back into that anxiety. I was straight back into the stress. I was straight back into and I knew that I was behind on the car loan repayments, and I knew that I I was struggling to pay the rent. And I knew that the house wasn't insured. My contents weren't insured because I couldn't afford that.
Wil:And that's when I sort of hit the wall. That that was sort of when I went, oh, if I don't go back and read the diaries that I wrote while I was in jail and the things that I was promising myself and actually start doing some of those things, this is just gonna go back to how it was. And that's when I went to Westpac and said to them, I can't I can't afford to do this, this, this, this. And then and then that lady at Westpac said, go and talk to my budget. See what happens.
Tammy:Amazing. Mhmm. And so were your loans with the Westpac at the time?
Wil:No. The car wasn't the car was it was Volkswagen, and it was through Volkswagen. And before I came and joined my budget, I actually handed the car back. So I rang Bolt because the lady at Westpac said to me, you could do this. So I rang I rang him and said, I can't afford to keep this car anymore.
Wil:And the guy was really nice. He's like, that's okay, mate. It happens all the time. Like, this is the place where you've gotta take it. Take it to this address.
Wil:Give them this reference number. They'll get you to fill out some paperwork. You just leave it with us. We sell it at the auctions. We take that price off whatever you still owe us, and then we sort out the rest.
Wil:I'm like, okay. So I've done that one thing.
Tammy:Yeah. I've got Which is great because that's actually very hard for a lot of people to do.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:And so you came you came in and had an appointment. You you made the phone call. How was all of that experience for you? So what what that would have been when?
Wil:2017, maybe. So I made the appointment. I went in and talked to the gentleman. He was really nice. It was at a, it doesn't matter where it was.
Wil:I sat down and had a chat to him. I I was still in the unit. I'd managed to stay in the unit, and he actually said to me, you don't have enough money in your budget to live. You know, how how would your girlfriend feel about contributing some money towards sort of food and and stuff so that you can pay your bills? And that was a real shock.
Wil:I was like, far out. I've got into that mess pretty quick. I'm really not good at this. So I rang I I said to him, I have to go up beside and ring her. That's something I try and do.
Wil:Right? Face the hard conversation. Mhmm. Let's not avoid that. Ring her and say, listen.
Wil:I'm doing this. They've said, I actually can't afford to pay all my bills. Can you help me out and contribute for the nights that you're there for for a little while? And she said, of course, I can. No problem.
Wil:Of course, I'll do that. So she did that. And that that's how I started. I'd Yeah. I'd,
Tammy:That's how you got the budget balance. But
Wil:I remember that he said to me and I'm like, well, take this and this out. And one of the things I love is formula one car racing. And we'd put in the budget for me to be able to buy a ticket to the formula one for me and my son every year.
Tammy:Yep. Amazing. And I
Wil:said to him, take it out. And he goes, no way. I remember him. I shook his head at me. He said, no way.
Wil:I'm not doing that. He said, no. If you haven't got something he said to me, mate, when it gets to July and the tickets go and say, I'll put this and you've got the money for it, how good are you gonna feel? Yeah. Okay.
Wil:So we left it in, and he was so right. Like, when I got to that time, I was like, oh, we we did that.
Tammy:Amazing. That's really cool. We did that. And I bet you loved that feeling when you bought that ticket and didn't have to worry. Yeah.
Wil:Because the first year I came home, I had already said to my son, we're not gonna be able to go this year. And my three mates who I always went with came and got my son and I on the Thursday and said, by the way, we've bought you tickets this year so that
Tammy:you can
Wil:still come with us. Again, grace and kindness when I don't deserve it. Right? It's the story of my life. It's it's you know, don't know.
Wil:Maybe I do.
Tammy:Well, I mean, I think you must deserve it. You must have done a lot of good in your life to get this karma.
Wil:I try and give it back now, though. It's I think it's even this sort of going coming and talking to you guys about this sort of stuff, I I always say, and there might be the moment to say it, if somebody is feeling the way I was feeling, particularly if they're in trouble with the police Mhmm. You know? And they're genuine and they're like me and they're willing to accept that they did wrong
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:Reach out to these people, and they'll get you in contact with me. And I've done it. I'd, the year before last, I had a guy reach out to me, and, I helped him through the whole process. I I went to court with him, helped his wife after he went inside because giving back is important.
Tammy:Yeah. It is. It is. And giving everybody deserves support.
Wil:Yeah. You said it at the start. We all make mistakes.
Tammy:We all
Wil:make mistakes. Mine was a pretty bloody big mistake, but we all make them.
Tammy:But we all make them. Mhmm. And it's about owning those mistakes
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:And dealing with the consequences and then changing your behavior and improving your life thereafter. Yeah. There's always something to learn.
Wil:Because my my wife that I'm married the beautiful lady that I'm married to now, she said that to me. She's like, sorry requires change. That's her rule. Yep. You can say sorry when you're sorry for something, but sorry requires change.
Tammy:And different actions to what you were doing before. Mhmm. Yep. Yep. So you've, you've joined my budget.
Tammy:You've you're going to the formula one.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:But my budget didn't just help you rebuild your finances, did it? What did my budget help you do?
Wil:It helped me in a lot of ways, really. It it it takes away the pressure. Like I was saying before, like, I'm not good at balance doing money, and
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:It's not an easy thing to admit. But once you admit it and you can and you see that there's a better way to do it Yeah. Then then it makes all those years where you struggle with it seem a bit silly. Because what it does is when I get paid, most of my pay goes straight into my MyBudget account, and everything gets allocated. Yep.
Wil:And then there's this little savings account that when I wanna take money out of it, I can. That's my that's my, you know, that's my spending money. It's my pocket money.
Tammy:Yeah.
Wil:Or it's my, hey. Let's save up for, you know I I think I think it helped me get into a headspace where I could where that job when that job was ending, and I knew I had to find another job, and I knew I had to find a and I really, at that point, needed to find a new career. And Mhmm. I was I was 42. And what do you do?
Wil:You're starting life at 42, and you're gonna start at the bottom of a company. And how do you do all of that? Not having the additional stress of, oh, by the way, is the is the power bill paid? Yeah. It just takes enough it takes enough of that away that you can you know?
Wil:So I remember the first time I had to apply for a job. I was so stressed and so certain that no one would want me because I was an ex cream, I wasn't had gel that long, and all of that
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:That I couldn't do it. I sat staring at my computer for about forty minutes, and that was before I I was with my budget. And after where I I when I remember having to go and do the same sort of thing, it just was less stress.
Tammy:Yeah. Because it
Wil:doesn't all just pile on top of you because and it's such a big chunk. It's just yeah. And I and we can make plans, and we do do things. And, you know
Tammy:We should be very proud of the changes that you've made in turning your life around and, you know, tackling those challenges
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:Head on. Because I'm sure there's a number of people that would be listening to this, who you're giving inspiration to, who might be feeling that way because of something else, and feeling challenges in their life, and, you know, starting their career again at 42 for lots of different reasons. And so you certainly, I'm sure and probably in your day to day life, I'm sure as well, are giving inspiration to those, you know, that just come up against a difficult time and a different and difficult challenges. Because that's not easy what you're describing, getting your life back on track, getting a job, getting your stuff together so you can sort it out.
Wil:Yeah. And then meeting someone and then Rebuilding your gets complicated again because I was happy over here, and now I want this as well. Yeah. And how does that all fit together? Yeah.
Wil:You said at the start, what was life like when it was ordinary for you? And I I think that that's the thing I keep in my head is I'm no smarter than anyone. I'm no I'm no wiser than anyone. I'm no clever. I'm ordinary.
Wil:Mhmm. And and the only thing that I did that isn't ordinary was I went, I did that. I made that mistake, and I'm not gonna do that again. And and I I have the benefit when hard times happen where I can say, jeez. Is this worse or better than my worst day in jail?
Tammy:Yeah.
Wil:Right? And guess what? Most of the time, whatever's happening is not worse Yeah. Than when I was in jail. So I've got this thing where I can balance it off, and not everybody has that.
Wil:Yeah. But, really, I'm not special. I've just made one smart decision Yeah. Which was to go, I'm not good at x. Like, we're not if we're talking about my budget, it was Yep.
Wil:I'm not good at budgeting. I need help. Yeah. I'm going to take up what that lady said, and I'm gonna ring these people and swallow my pride and get help.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:If we're talking about the crime, it was I did this, and I'm gonna take the consequences for it. I just did one brave thing.
Tammy:Yeah. But it's taught you a lot.
Wil:It's taught me a lot.
Tammy:And and, you know, just what you said then where you can reflect on those tough days, I'm sure that you get to have many days because of that Yeah. Where you feel grateful for the life you do have and the life that you're leading now
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:Because you're not in jail.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:You're you're out. You're you're free. You're breathing the free air. Mhmm. And and living your life and rebuilding your life, so you should be extremely proud of yourself.
Tammy:And what about are there any milestones or anything any financial goals that you
Wil:Yeah. There's a couple. I don't I don't I'm not very good at doing proud. I thank you for what you're saying. I'm just not very good at it.
Wil:There's a couple of things. So my wife is from Central America. Mhmm. And she moved back here just before I met her with her parents who were gonna retire here. And then, you know, we got together, and then she moved in with me and out from them, and we were going to see them all the time, and then COVID happened.
Wil:And then we were still needing to go and see them all the time because they actually speak beautiful English, but they're not confident. And they can navigate their worlds around way around life, but they prefer to have help. Mhmm. And so partway through COVID, and we were going to visit them. And and it would have been fine.
Wil:If I got pulled over by a policeman, I could have said to them, I'm going to give care to my aged parents in law. But partway through COVID, I I said to my wife, we really just all need to move in together. That's what we need to do. We just need to move in together, and we just need to rent a big enough house that all of us can live together, and then we don't have to worry about this. And during in in the space of one of Melbourne's not lockdown periods, we've been managed to find a house that was big enough that they had some space.
Wil:We had some space. There was room for my son, and we all moved in together. And I couldn't have done that if I wasn't financially stable. Mhmm. You know?
Wil:Because we all contribute to the rent, but I earn the most, so I contribute the most. That's the deal. Yeah. And we couldn't have done that if I if I hadn't have made the decision five years before to to say, I'm not good at this. I need help.
Wil:Let's go and work with my budget. That that's a massive milestone for me. You know? And I could talk about material things, but that's the massive one.
Tammy:Yeah. Where you got to help out your in laws We
Wil:get to we get to
Tammy:and spend time with them.
Wil:Yep. And we have a we have a great life. We have a happy life, and there's so
Tammy:much That's
Wil:amazing. There's so much fun. And and it's helpful And
Tammy:what about the food? I'm sure the food
Wil:is great.
Tammy:It's the food
Wil:you make. Yeah. They're all really good. And it's and it's helpful that life is half lived in Spanish and half lived in English. Yeah.
Wil:So it's not like a lot of people would think about it and go, oh, you know, my my mother in law's rabbiting on in my ear. I'm like, yeah. But half the time when she's doing that to me, it's in Spanish. So I don't really understand what
Tammy:she's saying.
Wil:But it's great. That's probably the that's probably the thing I am most proud of.
Tammy:Yeah. Well, that's amazing. Has your son managed to learn any Spanish words?
Wil:A few. The important ones, food.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. And he'll probably learn some good recipes and
Wil:I mean, he's 19 now. Right? So I'm not sure he even knows I'm out of the state.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wil:So yeah. Yeah.
Tammy:I've got a well, my 19 year old just turned 20 a couple of days ago. What does financial freedom mean to you now compared to how you felt before?
Wil:You know, I thought about this because I figured something like this had come up. This is what I want. I I don't wanna be rich. I'm rich. Like like I said about being privileged by any standard that you wanna measure me against most of the world, I'm rich.
Wil:I live in a nice house that I can afford to pay for. I don't have to worry about putting food on the table. This is the kind of rich I wanna be. I wanna be, babe, let's go and have brunch rich. Mhmm.
Wil:I wanna be, hey, mom. I'll help you pay for the crack in your windscreen. That's the sort of rich I wanna be, and that's the sort of rich I am. Yeah. I don't wanna be any richer than that.
Wil:It looks complicated. Yeah.
Tammy:And and I like the way you're describing that because really what you're describing is you wanna be able to be free to do those things, be able to afford them Mhmm. And do those things without putting financial pressure or stress Yeah. On yourself or your or your wife or your family.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:But have the freedom to do those things if and when you need to.
Wil:Yeah.
Tammy:Because if you weren't looking after your money that well Yeah. And those things came up, you would like to do them, but maybe you wouldn't be able to.
Wil:I think I've got enough man I've got enough financial stability that, you know, they say that money just makes the world go a little bit smoother. Mhmm. And I reckon I've got that.
Tammy:Yep. Most definitely.
Wil:There's things that I have to think about and there's things that we have to decide. Do we buy this sort of or is it smart to buy that? But they're more of the conversations we have. Is it smart to buy a new couch now? Yeah.
Wil:Or would we is it more important for us to go on a holiday at the end of the year or to buy a new couch now? But just to be able to have that conversation is pretty extreme.
Tammy:With my budget.
Wil:Where I was ten years ago and then where I was when I came home from jail and where I was before I started my budget. I would never have had that conversation. Yeah. Secondhand furniture and an old bed.
Tammy:Yeah. You know? I mean and we hear that a lot is that you're making far better decisions about the future because you can you can see it there.
Wil:Well, the money that I have to spend, I know I can spend.
Tammy:Yeah. Because all
Wil:the rest of the the other stuff's taken care of. Yes. But, yeah, like I say, I don't I I am so I feel very rich.
Tammy:Yeah. Well, I think you are very rich leading into we always have a bit of a theme about being grateful, and I can see that you're very grateful for a lot of the things that you have in your life. What what is the thing that you are most grateful for?
Wil:Going to prison would be it. Yeah. If that hadn't happened, I I wouldn't have reset my life. I deserved it. I did the wrong thing.
Wil:I absolutely deserved to go to jail, and I'm so glad I did. I'm so glad that the the the the judge didn't suspend my whole sentence. Everyone in my family wanted that to happen, and I'm so glad it didn't happen because it just gave me the time to really seriously think about how I wanted the rest of my life to look.
Tammy:And I'm sure in that moment, you didn't fit think that or feel that.
Wil:No. I feel it now.
Tammy:You feel it now. Yep. In hindsight. But I always say everything happens for a reason.
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:It might feel like a bit of a shit storm. Yep. Not sure of them that I swear.
Wil:Oh, it's your podcast.
Tammy:But it could feel like a bit of a shit storm. Yeah. But something is gonna happen where you're gonna learn something. It's happening for a reason. You just gotta get through it, keep your head up, push through, take all the action that you need to take Yep.
Tammy:To get out of that situation and keep improving and doing better, keep becoming a better human. And then you can look back and go, oh, that happened for this reason. And if that didn't happen, if I didn't, you know, embezzle money Mhmm. I wouldn't have ended up in jail. I wouldn't be If
Wil:not for that, I
Tammy:would be human I am now.
Wil:And if it wasn't that, I would say the thing I'm most grateful for is my life my my wife lost a bet to her sister, and she had to put her to face on a dating profile because that's how I met it. That'd be the thing. That's right up there.
Tammy:That's nice. I'm sure your wife will love hearing that. Yep. That's amazing.
Wil:What I said before about meeting people without judgement is is actually extraordinary. Like, if you think about all the service industries and and at the end of the day, a lot of the people you're talking to at MyBudget are in a call center or or, you know, some version of a call center. Mhmm. You think about how many call centers are there are in Australia where you ring up to us for help and they could not care less. Yeah.
Wil:Like, it actually is quite extraordinary.
Tammy:And and it's as I said, it's certainly what we look for in people. Mhmm. Because you can't you can't teach people that. No. And the nonjudgment thing is critical because people are already feeling shame, or some people are feeling shame about the situation that they're in.
Tammy:And all we really wanna do is be able to help improve that situation and get you back on track. Or in some cases, it's just doing better with your money.
Wil:And I imagine it's a bit like grief that that well, it was for me. It was a bit like grief. Like, in in that you feel a bit out of control, and you're not quite sure what's gonna trigger you being upset.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:Like, I remember getting upset after I left the first meeting that I had with my budget. I remember getting upset and thinking, you're a bit useless because you can't do this yourself. You know? And when I, you know, in the in my job as in the funeral industry, you never know what the thing is that's gonna trigger somebody Yeah. When they're grieving.
Wil:Yeah. It could be something so little that you didn't even see coming. Yeah. And I imagine your people, when they're on the other end of the phone, experience that a lot that all of a sudden someone's crying because they can't afford they got a stain on their wedding dress when they got married and they can't afford to get it dry cleaned and it's gonna be ruined or something really simple that you never saw coming. Yep.
Wil:And then all of a sudden you got somebody on the phone that's crying because of money. Yep. And you've gotta be able to switch and respond to that as well.
Tammy:You do. And I think the way to do it is through empathy. Mhmm. And just caring and putting yourself in that person's shoes.
Wil:But empathy is not easy. We we talk about it in my job that I I say to people when peep when when someone walks in and they're ready to organize a funeral, they're at war and they're in the trenches Mhmm. Of grief. Yeah. And if you jump down into that trench with them, you are of no use to them at all.
Tammy:No. But not sympathy.
Wil:That's sympathy. Right? Your job is to pull them out of the trench and to walk with them for a little while and help them sort out one thing before they go back to war. And your people are the same. Their their job is to to get that person.
Wil:Mhmm. Because that person's at war with something, you know, and just to help them with that bit that that bit.
Tammy:Yeah. Going back to I I I liked what you said before, but you may I mean, you seem to have a lot of quotes. So if you had a billboard
Wil:Yep.
Tammy:What's the message that you would wanna put out to the world?
Wil:Oh, be of service.
Tammy:Be I love that. I love that. Be of service.
Wil:Be of service. So I work in the funeral industry now. I won't talk about, like, the company or whoever, but I work in the funeral industry, and it has taught me so much about being of service to people. And I think it's what I'm meant to do in my life, not not to work in a funeral industry, but to be of service.
Tammy:I think almost all of us are.
Wil:Yeah. And I think your life when whenever I'm at my lowest, if I can just break that long enough to go stop being an idiot and go and do something for someone else Mhmm. I always feel better when I've gone and done something for someone else, when I've been of service for someone else. It's that's that would a % made my bill award in a thousand point font
Tammy:Yeah. Just trying to do it. I absolutely love that. And I completely agree. And I think people with the richest lives, and you could say happiest, but
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:Happy means different things to a lot of different people. I think people with the richest lives are those that are in service
Wil:Mhmm.
Tammy:To others that are helping make a difference in other people's lives through Yeah. Whatever way they can, wherever their skill set lies.
Wil:Yep.
Tammy:And you feel so good about yourself. It's almost selfish being of service to others because you feel so great.
Wil:It's a trick.
Tammy:You About making
Wil:You feel better and you made someone else feel better. It's a great trick.
Tammy:Yeah. Yeah. I certainly feel that of myself and my budget and the team at my budget. Our our service our our clients mean the world to us.
Wil:There's no doubt. There's no doubt. When I ring them, when I talk to them, when I've had to organize stuff, you know, when I had right at the start when it was hard, the the the most important thing with them is they meet you without judgment. Mhmm. And then they help you.
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:Oh, that's that is so invaluable. Like, you know, that's it's
Tammy:It really is.
Wil:Those the what those people do, and they don't know you from anything. But they get on the phone, and they have this attitude of, I'm not gonna judge you for what you did. I'm just gonna help you.
Tammy:And so that's what we're really looking for in our team members is those that wanna help others be of service. You can you can put it in lots of different words. Those who wanna make a difference in other people's lives, that's what we're really looking for because you can't teach that. You either care or you don't.
Wil:This feels a bit like a job interview now. What have you got? What jobs you got, Helen?
Tammy:Check out Seek. We've always got them, guys. No. I really, appreciated our conversation today. Is there anything else that you would like to share with anyone listening to your story today?
Wil:Look. I I think I've said some things that hopefully people get out of it. But, like, the the big thing for me is just talk to someone. Mhmm. It doesn't matter whether you're facing financial stress and you call my budget or you're feeling really depressed so you call Beyond Blue or you just call your best mate
Tammy:and
Wil:say, you know, my best mate and I have got this thing now. It's just three words I need you. If one of us texts, I need you to the other one, that means stop what you're doing
Tammy:Mhmm.
Wil:And go. So and and we've set that up over many years, but just don't hold the shame yourself. Like, just talk to one person. That's Yeah. The thing that I'd like people to you know, and if it's finances, oh my god.
Wil:Talk to these people. They're amazing. Yep. But if it's just that you feel sad, just ring someone.
Tammy:Yeah. I love that. And like you said, you're blessed to have Very a a a great friend and a best friend that you can do that. But like you say, if you don't have someone, there are organizations out there
Wil:that you can
Tammy:you can call in the marketplace.
Wil:Shame in it. Right? That's the key. There's no shame in it.
Tammy:Yeah. Which is amazing. Yeah. Well, thank you again for your time.
Wil:You're very welcome. Thank you. It's been lovely to have a chat.
Tammy:Chatting to you. Thanks for joining us today. To hear more about our stories and budgeting tips, head to mybudget.com.au to check-in our resources there. We've got free budget plans that you can download and if you're interested in taking that next step so you can start living your life free from money worries, just give us a call and book in your free appointment. It won't cost you anything but your time.
Tammy:MyBudget Australian Financial Services licence and Australian Credit Licence number
Danielle:391759.