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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:02.02)
Last week, the good, the bad, and the simply unexplainable of Spain's gambling market was examined at the Gaming in Spain conference in Madrid. Discourse over the cumbersome overhaul of gambling compliance and governance unfolded against the backdrop of another general election called by PM Pedro Sanchez. The much maligned sheriff of DGOJ insists the regulator remains on track to deliver its core programme of transformative projects.
Yet despite the noise, political distractions, and regulatory disenchantment, Spain somehow remains on track to be an attractive growth market. Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner, and to discuss this with me today, I'm joined by SPC Media's editor at large, Ted Menmuer. Ted.
Ted Menmuir (00:52.172)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (01:01.938)
Okay, you want me to go from the top? Okay.
Last week, the good, the bad, and the simply unexplainable of Spain's gambling market was examined at the Gaming in Spain Conference in Madrid. Discourse over the cumbersome overhaul of gambling compliance and governance unfolded against the backdrop of another general election called by PM Pedro Sanchez. The much maligned sheriff of DGOJ insists the regulator remains on track to deliver its core programme of transformative projects. Yet, despite the noise, political distractions, and regulatory disenchantment,
Spain somehow remains an attractive growth market. Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner and to discuss this with me today I'm joined by SBC Media's editor at large, Ted Menmuur. Ted, how's things?
Ted Menmuir (02:00.267)
Very well, Charlie. Glad to have grabbed a room for this iGaming Daily Pod. And yes, going to discuss the Spanish market.
Charlie Horner (02:10.999)
W yeah, one of Europe's more interesting markets and you you were
Ted Menmuir (02:14.667)
yes, yeah, yeah, Parts, so bonkers, yeah.
Charlie Horner (02:20.572)
But a complicated one nonetheless, and y and you're you were there in Madrid last week at Gaiman in Spain. Firstly, just tell us about that conference last week a and its context given what's happening in twenty twenty six.
Ted Menmuir (02:33.301)
Okay, so yes, on the road again with FBC and I, a expert, last week and I was in attendance at the Gaming in Spain conference in Madrid. So I begin by just to shout out to William Van Oort, who directs the gaming in conferences. And he always delivers kind of a very kind of granular and cold faced depiction of a gambling market. And for me, they're really needed at a Euro level, especially with markets as complex as Spain. Like I mentioned before,
I think what gaming really shows about a market is that there are so many kind of cultural and nationalistic trends that need to be understood about a gaming market.
And as industry publishers or someone who just reports on the industry, I think we can sometimes just be hung up on the regulatory and compliance play out. And we kind of ignore kind of these wider kind of cultural elements of gambling, which are just as important and just tell us just as much about kind of the engagement with the consumer at a national level.
Charlie Horner (03:43.26)
Wow. IGaming daily being a bit too regulatory and compliance heavy. I've never thought I would hear the day.
Let's let's put this in context then, Ted, as as you mentioned, because it's a fraught time for for Spain, in in the political context, because there is going to be a snap election next month. do you think this is gonna have any short or long term impact on the governance of of Spanish gambling?
Ted Menmuir (04:02.861)
Mm-hmm.
Ted Menmuir (04:10.295)
So yes, Pedro Sánchez, he's proven to be kind of the big gambler.
in European politics and he's called on his third snap election to drive housing reforms for a much needed Spanish electorate. And from a short term perspective it will likely have zero impact as the DGOJ has confirmed that it is settled or it will begin to implement the central deposit system, its in-game risk messages, a new common standard for customer verification in the next six months.
The more interesting aspect is the longer term intrigue on how a potential or opposition block or opposition coalition would reform the governance of Spanish gambling. And this is because we have to remember that in 2021, the Pessoa government led by Pedro Sánchez, they gave the oversight and the handling of the overall overhaul of Spanish gambling to the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, which took
a very kind hardline approach to implementing consumer rights and implementing new standards on Spanish gambling.
The big question here is that what direction would a conservative government or conservative leading government take on Spanish gambling? And what kind of sensitivities or ideology would they implement on the direction of Spanish gambling? And again, this kind of returns to that cultural theme of Europe and European markets and their relationship with gambling. It's very, very interesting.
Charlie Horner (05:52.551)
Certainly complex and we've got yeah, about about five weeks until that election. So we'll we'll keep an eye on that and and report any developments when when the result does come in. but let let's return to the the conference itself, because as as we mentioned, you you were there. and the DGOJ president Mikhail Arana kicked off proceedings and
Ted Menmuir (05:54.742)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (06:12.486)
Seem to be in somewhat of a defensive mode, and we said in the in the introduction that he's much maligned. what did he have to say to to audiences on on the authorities' status and and and I guess the the regulator's track record of of Spain's gambling market?
Ted Menmuir (06:29.047)
So yes, this was a lively kick off the conference given by DJJ president Miquel Arana and it's also good.
still always have the regulator kick off a conference as localized as gaming in Spain. The DJO, as you said, have been kind of much maligned for their management of key projects, primarily the deposit limit system and the detection risk algorithm. These are kind of viewed as the two headline projects announced that were first announced in 2023. And the other factor here is that they carried very, very limited consultation processes.
Aranek has kind of been in his deliberation. He hit back at kind of the critics of Spanish gambling and actually stood by the track record of the DGOJ, in which he said that these projects were delivered in time, not over a period to, they'd be provided in time over a period in which the overhaul of the Spanish gambling began, which is in 2020, and were taken in consideration of changes that had been applied at the start of 2020.
and how Spanish gambling market has evolved from the key mandates of the Royal Decree on Advertising and the Royal Decree on Safe for Gambling Environments which were two very distinct regulatory projects that had to be unfolded one on advertising and one on actually consumer protections. Then the definitive is that as he said look
Charlie Horner (07:58.639)
Mm. Yeah.
Ted Menmuir (08:04.363)
The DGOJ is now heading towards a critical six-month period of implementation of key projects that will be delivered.
Charlie Horner (08:13.852)
Yeah, well th the advertising the advertising standards and and the consumer protection measures, those are those are two two projects or two measures that you would say are are are in tune with what what is happening elsewhere in Europe. And and you could perhaps say the same with the central deposit limit system. What I find interesting is the detection algorithm. I think that's something that we don't really see anywhere else. but let let's look at those two headline projects that are that are ongoing now in in the detection algorithm.
And the the central deposit limit system. Where are those two projects on on the on the roadmap for the regulator? A are they imminent?
Ted Menmuir (08:52.459)
Yeah, so for gambling licenses, these two projects have been the clear point of rupture. The DJJ wants all licenses plugged to the central deposit limit system by March 2027 and has even begun kind of its beta testing of systems.
Come 2027, Spain will apply an individual 700 euro deposit daily limit across all operators and weekly that is carried out 1,750 euros across the system. In the total cap is 3,300 euros a month. some, not all Spanish cabinet ministers, but some have pointed to why is the cap even needed when there's data pointing that the majority of Spanish players only play on one or two operators.
Furthermore, as always, they are pointed out to markets such as Germany and the Netherlands where they say that deposit limits have made the VIP transfer to illegal operators and become black market encroachment for the market. Iran totally rejected that criticism stating that deposit limits are much more flexible in Spain than they will be applied in the Netherlands or Germany and you just don't see them especially given that 700 deposit limit.
It's much more about caring and having kind of an intervention on vulnerable consumers rather than high value VIPs. The one...
project that the DGROJ really thinks is transformative both at a national and European level is the detection of problem gambling behaviors, which sets kind of 48 parameters for identifying problematic behavior linked to problem gambling. However, again, it faces criticism for really for having no tender. It had a consultation period of five days and, you know,
Ted Menmuir (10:49.025)
Pedro Romero from Betblock has stated that he can understand why they'd had not had any kind of reach out on independent oversight of the project. then Paula Murphy in one panel replied that she did not, she thought the project was too binary in which it just applied a kind of traffic red amber and green light for detection and for which customers should be kind of intervened with and what is their status. And she said that was too kind of simplistic.
for a gambling, for any form of intervention project on customer care.
Charlie Horner (11:28.4)
Yeah, that's a really interesting measure, that one, the the d the detection algorithm. It's w one one concern that I've heard from from people within the industry is if a a regulator mandated algorithm or an a a regulator mandated piece of technology fails and people suffer because of that, who takes the blame? Is it the the operator or the regulator? That's that's one of the concerns that that that's been raised from the industry and that's that's certainly one that I think needs to be settled before
Ted Menmuir (11:41.834)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (11:57.681)
before before implementation. okay, Ted, look, let's let's take a very quick break and then we'll come back and we'll we'll continue our discussion all about Spain.
Break
Charlie Horner (12:56.592)
Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Spain is on the menu today after the Gaming in Spain conference last week. Ted, on reflection, what what the exact fractures in Spain's gambling market and I guess the big question is are those fractures fixable?
Ted Menmuir (13:16.255)
Okay, so looking at the cold phase, and this has been a stressful five years period for Spanish gambling and its overhaul of...
governance and compliance standards and it started off I mean it's been you know have this kind of strict oversight from the Consumer Affairs Ministry and it started off with the mandate of changing kind of gambling ads the gambling ads overhaul and that was a mandate that was approved and was immediately kind of struck down by you know parts of it were immediately struck down by J digital the trade body because they because simply because the DGOJ the Consumer
they skipped federal processes to allow for the law to be implemented. So it was believed to be kind of an illegal maneuver. Also on the set of gambling environments, it's been a project that's been under works for 2023. I think the licenses believe that they've been given kind of no technical consultation on how to kind of apply these changes, how to kind of reconfigure systems for problem gambling.
and customer care duties and a lot has just been left up to licences to kind of interpret the laws and that's kind of the feedback that has been given at the conference and also towards the regulator itself as in yes you guys you know you are pushing the barriers on on compliance but what is needed from the actual licenses themselves it's all I think it's all very kind of frustrating for the licenses to have to deal with and they've spent you know a lot of resources on a road
map which is not really clear.
Charlie Horner (14:57.212)
Well that's it, we we're pointing here and we're discussing a market where there's a lot of uncertainty and confusion, I think, and that's that's obviously not ideal for any market, although we know that in many European markets we're we're dealing with a similar situation. But despite all of that, is Spain a growth market in in the context of Europe and what what are the underlying metrics saying about Spain?
Ted Menmuir (15:21.737)
It is, it is, and this is the fact that I think...
blows the gambling license. It's not only that it's a growth market, but it's also kind of a hyper competitive market. So yes, in 2025, Spain's online gambling market grew by 14 % and now stands at 1.7 billion. Yet that doesn't tell you the whole picture because it still only remains that kind of 21 % of the actual gambling pool itself, which combining lotteries, which is by far Spain's biggest vertical is at 8 billion.
Another key metric is that in 2025 Spain passed that kind of threshold of 2 million kind of active adults in the gambling industry. What we got to see was an actual breakdown of the competitive makeup of Spanish gambling, online gambling given by kind of H2 capital and what it sees is that yes, the Dom as stands the market leading brand with 20 % of online market share is believed to be.
Bet365. This is followed by Thursa and Cordere having an online share of about 7 to 8 % each. However, the following brands are really, there's a very, very big long tail of competing or challenger brands in Spain. These are made up of Betway, Winamax.
who are each kind of taking a two to three percent share and they seem to not being able to grow their share for the last three years. So it kind of points to, yes, it points to a, know, disrupted market, but one where if you make the right moves and you localize well, you could take up some quick market share.
Charlie Horner (17:16.624)
Yeah, certainly. It seems like a very competitive market despite all that turmoil. and I guess maybe some of those smaller challenger brands might point towards the advertising standards and and think, well, if we had a little bit more relaxation in those rules, maybe we could maybe we could take a bit more market share. But yeah, that's something that that might be in the debate in the future. But really, as we come towards a close, Ted, from a from a market standpoint, do you do you see
Ted Menmuir (17:26.443)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (17:44.016)
sort of foreign and domestic operators keeping keeping the faith in Spain. We we talk about the the potential there and the competitive nature, but there's also th all of those liabilities. Do you think in the long term Spain remains an attractive place to do business?
Ted Menmuir (18:01.254)
but it's a good question to come in the podcast with. Look, there's skepticism across all elements of Spanish gambling.
However, the one point where Spain has remained remarkably constant is that there's been no taxation increase for the past five years since the gambling sector has been under its overhaul. you know, whatever you think of that, Sanchez's government, they have kept the kind of that promise that there's tax until the final implementation of all gambling laws. So whether that's kept by an opposition government is yet to be seen. But again, Charlie, just don't...
want to come back to say that tax is the definitive factor in why anyone joins a gambling market or chooses to compete in one. I think that there are kind of fundamentals of what makes a market attractive. I think that what we've seen in Spanish player loyalty is good. There is a big transfer from land-based gaming to online. However, I think with Spain...
The number one dynamic is localization.
I think Bet365 have been the best there, that's followed by very domestic brands of Thursa and Cadena Online. The other factor here is, especially with the online market, is that there's going to be a new giant in town with the formation of Lotomatica and Thursa. How much money will Lotomatica be willing to really kind of amplify its space in the Spanish online gambling market is yet to be seen, but I think it will be significant and it will look at that and say, there's such a big long tail there.
Ted Menmuir (19:46.401)
we can really take market share.
Charlie Horner (19:49.98)
Well, an absolutely fascinating market and it's great to have a deep dive with you on the show, Ted. So th thanks a lot for for joining me and and breaking all of the the latest and greatest news coming out of Spain with me. thanks to Optimove for supporting the show as always, and to our listeners, thanks for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.