246: The Pricing Strategy That Doubled Amy’s Freelance Income (without doubling her workload)

Ever feel like you’re undercharging for your freelance services? Amy Barnhart shares how a smart pricing shift and one game-changing service helped her nearly double her income in just one year.

In this episode, Amy Barnhart, a freelance fashion designer, reveals the strategic decisions that transformed her business, including raising her rates for tech packs and introducing a new print design service tailored to the men’s golf fashion niche. These moves not only boosted her revenue but also strengthened her client relationships and positioned her as an industry expert.

Amy also spills her secrets for running successful discovery calls that consistently convert leads into paying clients. Whether you’re trying to figure out when to raise your rates, how to expand your services, or ways to stand out in your niche, Amy’s insights are packed with actionable advice and real-world examples you can use right away.

If you’re ready to grow your freelance income, click play now to learn how Amy’s strategies can work for you!

Resources:
133: The Fashion Freelancer Who Never Wanted to Be a Freelancer with Amy Barnhart
197: How to Sell Yourself As A Freelance Fashion Designer (without feeling gross) with Nikki Rausch

About Amy:
Amy helps men's golf startups transition from design to production, collaborating on creative designs while managing the intricate technical details, allowing them to focus on the bigger picture.

Connect with Amy:
Visit her website
Email her at: [e-mail]
Follow on Instagram
Connect on LinkedIn

Download my Freelance Price List just for fashion (it’s free!): sewheidi.com/price

Creators and Guests

Host

Heidi Weinberg {Sew Heidi}

Heidi (aka Sew Heidi) is a self-taught freelance fashion designer who built a six-figure business without a degree, portfolio, or industry connections. After years of burnout in the fashion industry, she went freelance—and never looked back. Now, she helps other designers ditch toxic jobs, land better clients, and build flexible careers they love. Through her podcast, courses, and resources, Heidi has helped thousands of designers take control of their fashion path and finally get paid what they’re worth.

What is Fashion Designers Get Paid: Build Your Fashion Career On Your Own Terms?

This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers, textile designer and beyond) who want more flexibility in their career while still doing work they love.

You'll learn how to build a freelance fashion business, so you can do the work you love on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk).

Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want.

Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)

Heidi [00:00:00]:
Imagine being able to nearly double your freelance income in 1 year just by shifting your pricing strategy and introducing a service that clients didn't even know they needed. Today, I'm talking with Amy Barnhart, a freelance fashion designer who has built a thriving business. Between 2023 and 2024, she has boosted her income by over 75%. She is hitting 5 figure months, and she is building lasting client relationships along the way. So how did Amy know when to raise her prices? And what is the secret behind the unique service offering that has skyrocketed her revenue? If you're a freelancer wondering how to price your services, grow your client base, and position yourself as an industry specialist, this episode is for you. Let's dive in. Amy, welcome back to the podcast. I am really excited to chat because you have almost doubled your revenue this year compared to last year.

Heidi [00:00:52]:
So 2023 to 2024, and I wanna hear all about how you did it. So just spill all the secrets. Now go.

Amy Barnhart [00:01:00]:
No pressure. Thanks for having me back. I'm happy to be on again. All my secrets. I can give it to you in 30 seconds. Not really. Not really. That's a lot of pressure.

Amy Barnhart [00:01:13]:
Pressure, Heidi.

Heidi [00:01:14]:
That's alright. We've got 45 minutes to chat through it.

Amy Barnhart [00:01:17]:
Yeah. So I don't know. It's basically was 2 things. 1 was I added a new service. So I added on print design, and it turns out all my clients wanted that. And then the other was I almost let's see. I'm not credit math, but I increased prices on Techfax by a lot.

Amy Barnhart [00:01:34]:
By a lot. So it's basically yeah. Those two things.

Heidi [00:01:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Did you increase any of your other prices? Any other prices?

Amy Barnhart [00:01:43]:
I did. So Okay. When I was doing print, I started out, like, pretty low, just because I was kinda figuring it out, and I was nervous about it. So I more than doubled that.

Heidi [00:01:52]:
Okay. And that's a flat rate. Right? Do you do any hourly, or you always do flat?

Amy Barnhart [00:01:58]:
Generally flat. There's some stuff I do hourly for, not for prints. Generally, I could do a flat rate. So that, and then I started doing some premade prints, and I had my first sales from those, which was nice. So that's another another additional revenue.

Heidi [00:02:11]:
Okay. Alright. So I wanna dig into all of this. Also, real quick to celebrate because we just we just confirmed this before we hit record was that you also had your first very substantial over 5 figure month, meaning over $10,000. And in 2 months, it came really, really, really darn close. So that's amazing.

Amy Barnhart [00:02:30]:
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. It was pretty exciting. My husband's like, we celebrate that. And I said, we should celebrate that. That's a good idea. Not yet.

Amy Barnhart [00:02:37]:
But, I mean Oh. We don't have a lot of time together without the kid. You know? But we will. It is exciting. It's very exciting.

Heidi [00:02:44]:
Please put a pin in that and make sure it happens. It is important to celebrate those wins.

Amy Barnhart [00:02:48]:
Yeah. It is.

Heidi [00:02:50]:
Okay. So you almost or roughly or something really drastically increased the rates for your tech packs. Did you just do that? Were you all of a sudden, like, hey, this is the price for tech packs? Or how did you handle that with existing clients versus new clients? Or can you talk us through the process a little bit of of how you kind of enabled that increase?

Amy Barnhart [00:03:09]:
Yeah. So for, existing clients, I did not increase it for everybody. K. It just kinda depended on, like, that relationship. So some people, I kept it the same, but I let them know, like, hey. I've raised my price to this. I'm gonna keep you here for now. So I don't know.

Amy Barnhart [00:03:26]:
I would like to hear that. Like, I would like to know you're keeping me at the old price, so I feel like, makes them feel good. And then also, as I said, if I did wanna do wanna increase it later, I can. Okay. For the people that I increased it with, they were generally people I haven't worked with in a while who came back. And so I was just like, hey. Just so you know, I've increased my prices, like, pretty substantially. If you still wanna if and then and then I would, like, get their so I increased my prices.

Amy Barnhart [00:03:50]:
Let me know if you're still interested. I can send you the new pricing. And so they would say, yes. I'll send them the new pricing, and then we would go from there. Okay. And Yeah. What was

Heidi [00:03:58]:
the reaction from those people? Like, did you get some no's, or did you get mostly yes's? I got yes's.

Amy Barnhart [00:04:04]:
I had someone no no's. I had someone who wanted to split it into 3 payments, instead of that. But otherwise, yeah. No no's.

Heidi [00:04:11]:
Amazing. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:04:12]:
I I feel like it wasn't that many older client like, I feel like it was only a couple older clients that Okay. Like, came back after a while that I increased it with. Otherwise, it was just, like, people I had worked with more recently, and I it's a a large bump, so I kept it for them.

Heidi [00:04:29]:
Okay. So any plans to, like, slowly get those people up? Because I'm I'm actually a little surprised to hear that you didn't increase it for them at all. Like, I I know the numbers of what you jumped to, and and I know we we keep that private. But, I'm surprised that you didn't, like, give them an incremental bump or something just to make them still feel good, but also, like, this price is a little higher.

Amy Barnhart [00:04:50]:
Yeah. I think I will I think I will eventually. One of them, it's just, like, projects I'm very excited to work on. Okay. So just in case, I just kept keeping it the same for now. Yeah. And the other person I don't know. I think I'd probably worked with him, like, very recently, and Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:05:07]:
I don't know. I guess I could have. It just seemed easier not to yet, but I let him know. So next time, I'll probably bump it with him. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's kind of I have a lot of, like, new clients, So it doesn't feel like that big of a drag to have, like, a couple people at the older price or a few people at the older price.

Heidi [00:05:28]:
Okay. Okay. And then can you talk through, like, the price increase strategy? Because you and I worked on it. Like, I coached you through parts of it, and and I I kinda had to nudge you at the beginning. You were like, I don't know. And and so can you talk a little bit about, you know, some of the stuff you and I talked about to first make the decision that, yes, we're going to try a price increase, and then there was a few stages to that. So I'd love I'd love to share that process because I think it'll be interesting for people to hear, like, why we intentionally chose to to do the increase and then how it sort of grew in an incremental way.

Amy Barnhart [00:06:07]:
Yeah. Like, how we had that call, and then we talked about, like, the different different pricing. Like, from there or from, like, the very, very beginning where I was, like, I'm try not charging enough for a print. Like, I I'm thinking you mean from when we had the, like, strategy call?

Heidi [00:06:21]:
Yeah. I mean, I get well, my

Amy Barnhart [00:06:22]:
head was specifically?

Heidi [00:06:23]:
I guess I was kinda thinking with Tech Pack specifically because

Amy Barnhart [00:06:26]:
got it.

Heidi [00:06:27]:
You you were first, I knew your price, and I was like, how often do you hear no? And you're like, pretty much never. Like, everybody says yes. And I go, you need to raise your prices. Like, you should be getting some no. So, like, that was the first signal. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:06:40]:
And you

Heidi [00:06:40]:
were like, I don't know. It's if I feel like it's already a really good rate that I'm getting. And, like, do you remember that mental space and that conversation a little bit?

Amy Barnhart [00:06:47]:
I do. Just wanted to make sure that's where you wanna be a start from. Yeah. So I had made, like, my Excel sheet for you with, like, this is what I made last year. This is what I wanna make this year. This is how I wanna get there. And you started playing around with you you asked me if I was getting a lot of no's, and I feel like I hardly got any, and so you said that I should raise my prices, which made total sense, like, in theory, and I think if someone else had been telling me that, I would've said, like, yeah, you can obviously charge more. But in my head, I didn't know anyone who was charging more than that, so it didn't seem like I could.

Amy Barnhart [00:07:21]:
But you I feel pretty easily convinced me, because I watched you play with the numbers, and I watched my, like, my annual income go up, like, a lot. Yeah.

Heidi [00:07:32]:
Just by changing, like, a few numbers based on how many tech packs you do each year.

Amy Barnhart [00:07:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. So that was a pretty, good incentive to try it. So, yeah, the the next call I had, I just said, like, the slightly higher number. Yeah. And they said yes. And then the next one, I said a slightly higher number, and they said yes. And I kinda kept doing that.

Amy Barnhart [00:07:49]:
Yeah. And then, I feel like I'm at I kinda still play with it sometimes depending on the day and who I'm talking to, but I did have someone's I had a couple people say hi to, like, double the price.

Heidi [00:08:05]:
And It was a little high.

Amy Barnhart [00:08:06]:
No. They said yes. They both said yes.

Heidi [00:08:08]:
They said yes.

Amy Barnhart [00:08:09]:
Oh. One of them ended up falling through. He might have ended up falling through anyway, but for some reason, I'm still, like, scared to go back to that higher price. So I have to Okay. Okay. But yeah. So I I think hearing it from you, I trust, and then seeing you play with the numbers and what can happen, and then just it was really hard to say it those first few times.

Heidi [00:08:27]:
Mhmm.

Amy Barnhart [00:08:28]:
But I got the words out, and people kept saying yes. So Yeah. Does that does that answer the question?

Heidi [00:08:34]:
Like, what Yeah. I do. Like, we just kind of we said first, like, you're getting too many yeses. Yeah. So something's gotta change. And so we said price increase, and you bounced up, like, a little bit and, like, got some yeses. And then you're, like, okay. Let me just like, kept pushing it until you reached a little bit of that tipping point.

Heidi [00:08:54]:
I think altogether, there might have been, like, 4 or 5 different stairs that you hadn't stepped on the price. Right?

Amy Barnhart [00:09:00]:
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I think there were, like, 4, and then the 5th one that I'm still a little scared of.

Heidi [00:09:06]:
Okay. Would you got one yes on, but then you got one you lost the product or something?

Amy Barnhart [00:09:12]:
I yeah. I got 2 yeses. One of them fell through, but I don't know that it was price related.

Heidi [00:09:16]:
Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:09:17]:
I mean, he said yes initially. I think he just had a lot going on.

Heidi [00:09:21]:
So the 4th increment, do you still all get all yeses?

Amy Barnhart [00:09:26]:
I don't get all yeses. Okay. Good. I I want to because I still play with it, I don't have, like, the solid numbers of, like, what percentage I'm getting, but it is on my list of things to do to be, like, I said this price, and, like, for this price, as many people said no or, like Right. To figure out

Heidi [00:09:42]:
how to do this. Price 10 times and 7 people said yes and 3 said no. So a 70% close rate is still really great.

Amy Barnhart [00:09:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. To see what one of the percentages for each

Heidi [00:09:51]:
and Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:09:51]:
If I should raise it again or yeah.

Heidi [00:09:53]:
Okay. So that was variable 1 to increasing your revenue this year. Do you, like I don't know how closely you track, like, your hours or how much actual work you're putting in. But do you feel like you're working comparable schedule compared to last year, but you're just, like, making a lot more money?

Amy Barnhart [00:10:11]:
I'm working more. You're working more? Okay. Also making a lot more for what I'm doing.

Heidi [00:10:17]:
Like, if you broke down, like, per hour or something Yes.

Amy Barnhart [00:10:19]:
What you were getting?

Heidi [00:10:20]:
Okay. Okay. So the first big variable to almost doubling, your year your entire yearly revenue, which is amazing. Like, that's a huge number. It's not like one project or something. The tech pack price increase. And then the prints. Talk about the prints.

Heidi [00:10:38]:
And I'd love to hear a little bit too about, you weren't doing them before, and I know you like, I don't know where you're even at with, like because you do men's golf and lifestyle, but then I know there was a kind of pivot ish to women's prints. Like, can you talk about where where you're at with all that? Because you and I haven't even caught up on that.

Amy Barnhart [00:10:59]:
Yeah. So, I'm feel kind of all in with men's right now, just kinda where I am in life, and I already have that customer, and they're all great. Like, my clients are great. Yeah. I did do a women's, like, accessory print, and that was, like, fun. And I did some kids golf, which was, like, super fun. So I think, like, I do get those clients sometimes. So I think I'll keep working on those.

Amy Barnhart [00:11:22]:
Like, the kids' prints are really fun. But, yeah, mostly men's golf prints. Yeah.

Heidi [00:11:27]:
Okay. And you weren't doing that before? Like, you were really pretty much doing just tech packs for them, not really even design either?

Amy Barnhart [00:11:33]:
No. Because they don't really need design. So, yeah, I was just doing tech packs, and then I'd always been interested in prints, but I figured, when I was gonna start freelancing, I wanted to start with what I already knew and hadn't done prints. So I started without them, and then, yeah, I added them on, along with when I was working on, you know, maybe switching markets. And most of my clients wanted them, which was great. So because a lot of them will be working with someone else for prints, so then I could do all of it

Heidi [00:12:03]:
for them. Okay. And how did you, sort of, like, let people know that you have this new service available?

Amy Barnhart [00:12:11]:
So existing clients, if it made sense, I was sending an email and let them know. So then, if they wanted to talk about it with, like, the next project or whatever, so, I did that. And then with new clients, I just kinda let them know, like, what I could offer. So I could do type packs. I could do prints. Okay. And kinda walk through that with the initial call.

Heidi [00:12:31]:
Okay. And as far as, like, building out that skill set, what did you I think you took, like, some online courses or something. Right? And did some self directed projects? Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:12:42]:
I did, like, Leslie Kenahan, has, like, a portfolio boot camp. And she had a live round, and I did that. And so, like, I got feedback with from her, which was, like, incredibly helpful. And then there was, like, a group. So I was in a group for a while, and I could ask questions, from people who had more experience, which was nice. And then I have a friend that I used to work with, who is a, like, a very experienced print designer, and she was very nice, like, helping me out too. And she freelances on the side too, and she was Okay. Very nice.

Amy Barnhart [00:13:10]:
Like, sent me, like, her pricing and everything, which is really, really helpful and Yeah. Nice of her.

Heidi [00:13:15]:
Yeah. And so then from there, like, you got all this support and help, and you just create, like, a self directed portfolio, and you're kind of, like, hey. I'm offering prints. Like, here's kind of my aesthetic or, like, what I've got going on.

Amy Barnhart [00:13:26]:
Yeah. For the first one, they didn't even show a portfolio. And they just I think because I had so much golf experience already and had worked with so many golf brands.

Heidi [00:13:37]:
Yeah. And were those existing clients or new clients?

Amy Barnhart [00:13:41]:
New clients.

Heidi [00:13:42]:
What? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. How do you sell? Where do these clients even come from?

Amy Barnhart [00:13:49]:
Factory for a referral from a factory that I do a lot.

Heidi [00:13:51]:
Referral from the factory that you have really good connection with. Okay. Yeah. So does your factory now know that you do prints? So they funnel people to you for that as well?

Amy Barnhart [00:14:00]:
I think they know. They kind of funnel anything they think I might be able to help with.

Heidi [00:14:04]:
Okay. So you've built out this really great connection and relationship with this factory. They've had a lot of clients to to you because they do men's golf. Mhmm. And they just explained this for people listening who don't know the context. And the clients that come to you, even some of those first print clients who had never worked with you before, were just like, sure. Let's do it. Didn't even see a portfolio.

Heidi [00:14:28]:
Just kinda gave you some ideas, and you took it and ran and did the project and they were obviously very happy.

Amy Barnhart [00:14:33]:
Yeah. We're still working together. That first client, like, he emailed me the other day. He was like, I want 5 more prints. I was like, cool. Yeah. So

Heidi [00:14:41]:
Okay. And I know that you and I had chatted and you had said that like, I forget how but you had somehow because at this point when you and I were working together you were you were focused on trying to change your niche a little bit into the women's print world. But then you had said you somehow kind of discovered, like, this hole in the market, like, this gap in the market for men's golf prints, like, on any of the stock print websites and stuff. Like, it was just a category that wasn't filled. I how do you how did you find that? I can't remember. But you told me, like, oh, I did some research, and there's just it's a it's a hole. People need help in this space.

Amy Barnhart [00:15:19]:
Yeah. So it's just, like, this certain kind of print that's, like, in right now. Like, some of the men's golf brands are doing this, like, certain type of print where it's, like, small scale, kind of conversational, but you can't from a distance, you can't tell what it is. You have to get up close. And so a lot of my clients want those prints, and you can't just find them on, like, pattern bank or whatever. Mhmm. And so my initial idea there was to do, like, a set of premade prints so they're already made Yeah. That they can buy from.

Amy Barnhart [00:15:47]:
And I started that, and I meant to be, like, keeping it up and sending it out, like, once a month. But I've been so busy that I haven't been able to keep up with it. But, yeah, I feel like there's definitely a space there where if I could get my stuff, like, on on, like, an online shop, it's, like, a long term goal, and have it, like, searchable. So, like, you find you're looking for men's golf prints. Mhmm. It's really not out there. Like, the types of prints that they're doing and that they're wanting, like, they're not ready made, and a lot of them want ready made. Mhmm.

Amy Barnhart [00:16:19]:
So that was that's that's what I was talking about when we were doing that. And I did kind of start it, but the long term goal is to get get it, like, searchable.

Heidi [00:16:26]:
Yeah. And it's amazing to me, I gotta be honest, that in the print world, there's still gaps. Because it's a it can feel like a really saturated market, I feel.

Amy Barnhart [00:16:40]:
Yes. Yeah. It's just it's unique to that space. Yeah.

Heidi [00:16:45]:
Yeah. But, like, that's all you need. You don't need a 1000000 clients. Like, if you can serve this one client in a really hyper specific niche, and there there's plenty of clients. I mean, you're one person. You don't need a ton. Mhmm. So I think it's really cool that you found that hole.

Amy Barnhart [00:17:03]:
Yeah. Yep. Because people were asking for it and telling me, like, they weren't finding it out there. So I had more than 1 person do that, and I thought, it would be easier for me and easier for you if this was just, like, already made, and you could choose

Heidi [00:17:15]:
Yeah. What you liked. Yeah. But you said you have sold some that you had already made. So how did you do that?

Amy Barnhart [00:17:22]:
So I so I made the print catalog, and then I got all all up in my head about it and didn't wanna show it to anybody. I think I only showed it to, like, one client.

Heidi [00:17:30]:
What was in your head about it?

Amy Barnhart [00:17:32]:
Oh, I don't know. It's not any I don't know. Just like I was thinking too much about it. And so I barely showed it to anybody. But I did send it to, like, 3 people, and the last person I sent it to pretty recently bought, like, 6 prints out of it. So there were some some of them that are, like, we like this one, but, like, let's put our logo in this one spot or, like, that kind of thing.

Heidi [00:17:50]:
Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:17:51]:
But, yeah, I think, that was a sign, like, I need to, sell it a little harder.

Heidi [00:17:55]:
I was just gonna say that's a huge sign.

Amy Barnhart [00:17:58]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:17:59]:
1 out of 3 clients, and they bought 6. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:18:05]:
Yeah. Do you have any help? List.

Heidi [00:18:08]:
Just sorry. Go ahead.

Amy Barnhart [00:18:09]:
Oh, it's on my list. Like, I have a perhaps quieter month this month, so I'm gonna, like, double down on working on that.

Heidi [00:18:15]:
Okay. I was gonna ask, do you have any help yet? Because I know, like, you had talked about, like, maybe hiring another freelancer or 2 to help with certain parts of the process and, like, just help with I forget what maybe flats in the in the tech packs or something.

Amy Barnhart [00:18:30]:
Yeah. I have someone that I used to work with, and she does the sketches and the measurements for me. Okay. And she might start helping me with, like, the trim the trim stuff, like, the trim. I put them separate from the tech pack, but, basically, the the depth card for the trims, like, the logos and all the sizing and all that. She might start helping me with that too. But, yeah, I do have help there.

Heidi [00:18:49]:
Yeah. Which has been, I imagine, quite nice.

Amy Barnhart [00:18:52]:
It's so nice. Like, the other day, I was like, you you don't need to. But, could you give me a couple weeks notice if you don't wanna work with me anymore? Could you tell me in advance?

Heidi [00:19:03]:
Like, I'd really love a heads up.

Amy Barnhart [00:19:05]:
Yeah. I'm terrified. She's gonna lead me. But, yeah, that's great

Heidi [00:19:10]:
news. So a question that comes up with a lot of people is, do your clients know that someone else does part of the work?

Amy Barnhart [00:19:18]:
It's in my contract. So I have subcontractors covered in that. So if they read it, they do. If they don't, we don't really talk about it.

Heidi [00:19:25]:
So is it basically just, like, it is at my discretion if I pull in subcontractors to help support with various parts of the project or something like that?

Amy Barnhart [00:19:33]:
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi [00:19:34]:
Okay. Alright.

Amy Barnhart [00:19:35]:
Like, it might be subcontracted, and the sub the contractor is sub contractor is covered, just like I'm covered. Like Okay. It's all in there.

Heidi [00:19:43]:
That's really smart. But then it's just, like, you know, you have to bring it up, but it's there.

Amy Barnhart [00:19:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I am in the end of the day, like, I'm responsible. So, like, there's a snake in the sketch. Like, we're not gonna blame her for it. So I'll be like, oh, shoot. Sorry. I missed that.

Amy Barnhart [00:19:56]:
Right.

Heidi [00:19:56]:
And I imagine, like, she's not communicating or in touch with them at all. Like, she's working exclusively with you, and then you everything up, prove it, make sure it's right, and then, like, you're the sole point of contact. So Yeah. As far as they're concerned, whatever can be going on behind the scenes, but their experience is just working with you.

Amy Barnhart [00:20:09]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Heidi [00:20:10]:
Okay. And then, how do you build, like, her price into your price to make sure that, like, she's taken care of, but also you're taken care of from a budget perspective?

Amy Barnhart [00:20:27]:
So when I first, like, approached her to see if she would be interested, and she said yes. I asked, like, if she would wanna, like, do, like, a fixed rate per thing, or she wanna start hourly, and she gave me an hourly rate that was way too low. Okay. And so I said, like because she doesn't know. She's not a freelancer, and she doesn't know. I think she gave me her hourly rate at her last job. And so I was, like, okay, I'll pay you, almost double that.

Amy Barnhart [00:20:48]:
Is that okay? And it's such a reasonable rate, although it is more than what she asked for, that it doesn't eat in enough to my profits for me to need to raise the price of anything, especially considered I've already raised the prices. So

Heidi [00:21:03]:
Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:21:04]:
Like, I feel good about what I'm paying her. It's a lot more than what she asked. Yeah. It's not enough that I feel like I need to raise prices more.

Heidi [00:21:12]:
Okay. And then you're you're still taking care of on, like, the price you're getting, even at that first base price that you haven't raised with some of those existing clients?

Amy Barnhart [00:21:21]:
Yeah. I still feel okay about it. Because then when I look at, like, my expenses of paying her for the year. Like, it's really not that high. Like, really Okay.

Heidi [00:21:30]:
Like, we're gonna take data, like, your overall income.

Amy Barnhart [00:21:33]:
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Because it can vary per, like, tech pack, how long it takes. And I think maybe considering what she's going on, like, if her kids are home, it might take her longer. You know, that kind of thing. So I don't it's not, like, an exact number that it costs per tech pack. It can vary.

Amy Barnhart [00:21:50]:
But, like, overall, for the year. Yeah.

Heidi [00:21:52]:
Yeah. Like, a more complex or a more simple garment? Yep. Yep. Or yeah. Her day. And are you or what? Oh, her day.

Amy Barnhart [00:22:00]:
Like what she's got going on.

Heidi [00:22:01]:
Yeah. And then are your is your tech pack price a flat rate regardless of the type of garment?

Amy Barnhart [00:22:11]:
Yeah. I'm not doing like, if someone asked me for, like, a seam sealed jacket, I would raise the price. But otherwise, I keep it kinda flat just to be keep it simple. Because usually, it's like a polo, it's a quarter zip, it's a hoodie, it's a t shirt. Like

Heidi [00:22:23]:
Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:22:23]:
There's not that big of a difference. Yeah. Sometimes, like, shorts or pants. Okay. But they're all, like, relatively close in complexity. I think I would consider raising it for complicated outerwear.

Heidi [00:22:37]:
Yeah. Like, more outerwear type of items. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:22:40]:
I see also, I think it's easier for the client to understand that the price is always the same.

Heidi [00:22:46]:
Yes. So if

Amy Barnhart [00:22:47]:
they wanna come to me for something else, it's gonna be the same.

Heidi [00:22:50]:
They just know. Yeah. And then you do, like, a tremendous amount of men's golf with a lot of men's golf brands who are arguably, air quote, like, competitors. How do they feel? And then and in my head, where my head goes a little bit is, like, how much are you able to, like, copy and paste or file save as from 1 tech pack to the next or one fashion flat to the next for the technical sketch? And is that something that ever feels like a gray area for you or, like, your clients or, like, there's a lot of concerns from freelancers with being so niche that, how do I work with even 2 clients who are, like, in the same category that they might think their competitors, and then they've got the same freelancer working for them, and that feels like a conflict of interest or something like that. Mhmm. Like, where I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your client side of that as well as where you're at in your own head with it.

Amy Barnhart [00:23:52]:
Yeah. No clients have been concerned about it. They like that I only work in golf, and they like that they know some of the brands that I'm working with or have worked with. Mhmm. In my head, I don't worry about it because, like, the flat sketches, it's per what they tell me. Right? Like, to some degree, Apollo is Apollo is Apollo. Like, there's they're vaguely the same no matter what you do, but, like, I'm giving them what they're asking for, style it how they asked it for. Sizing, I always base it on, like, a sample that they send me.

Amy Barnhart [00:24:28]:
And then Mhmm. Everyone's sending me, like, Peter Millar is really big and golf. So 12 clients send me a Peter Millar sample. My subcontractor measures 12 Peter Millar samples. Like, I don't Okay. Cross them with each other. Yeah. I don't do that.

Amy Barnhart [00:24:44]:
First off, because they might not all be the same. Mhmm. Like, they might fit differently. Maybe this one's 10 years old. Maybe this one is, like, athletic fit, and this one's, like, classic, whatever. And then also it feels wrong. So I don't I don't do that. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:24:58]:
It's it's new every time even if Yeah. Apollo is Apollo is Apollo is Apollo. Yeah. So, yeah, I haven't run any of the issues with clients being worried about it, and I feel fine about it because I'm not Yeah.

Heidi [00:25:10]:
Totally.

Amy Barnhart [00:25:10]:
Giving anyone else anyone I'm not giving any client any other clients' information.

Heidi [00:25:15]:
Right. And it's interesting too because, like, do they ever ask you for design input? Or they pretty much, like, kind of come to you with an idea, like, a napkin sketch? Or what does that process look like?

Amy Barnhart [00:25:28]:
You I mean, with polos, it's usually, like, I like the way that this collar sits. I don't like the way that this collar sits. Okay. I may ask me, like but I get people wanna talk about this a lot. Like, an embroidery logo versus, like, a heat sealed logo or that kind of thing. So I will give them input on that kinda thing or, like, a lot of people want, like, a unique identifier on their thing, you know, that, and so, like, I don't generally design that for them, but, like, I can give them things to, like, think about as far as, like, ways they might wanna do that or, ways they could do it. Mhmm. But, yeah, usually, it's they just kinda wanna polo the designs more in the print.

Amy Barnhart [00:26:15]:
They care a lot about how the collar lays, and they'll ask for my input on, like, certain things, like the durability of a printed logo versus embroidery. Or they'll want me because I have a lot of people tell me, like, don't let us do anything stupid. Will you tell us if our ideas are stupid? I'll get that. But, generally, they know what they want it to look like, and it's kind of based on an existing sample. Okay. And then I'll generally change it a little bit so we're just not completely knocking something else off. Yeah. But, yeah, for for them, it's more about the print and then, like, that collar, like, the stiffness there Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:26:53]:
And the interfacing. You know? Does that answer the question?

Heidi [00:26:56]:
Yeah. I did. I mean, I come from the men's golf world. I did women's as well and some kids, but I come from the golf world as well. And I there's only so many ways you can slice and dice a polo.

Amy Barnhart [00:27:06]:
At the end Or you should slice and dice a polo.

Heidi [00:27:08]:
Yes. Yeah. I've seen some stuff. The PGA trade show, you see some stuff. Are are all of them like similar, like, more start up y or like where are they at in their business journey? Typically,

Amy Barnhart [00:27:25]:
there's a lot of startups. There's also a lot of, I have a lot of clients who have another business that's either, like, golf adjacent, and they wanna start doing apparel, or they have, like, an accessories brand, and they wanna start doing apparel, or, like, they own a bunch of restaurants, and they wanna start this other business. Mhmm. So those are the 2 that I generally get. Or, like, I had someone that they had, like, a like, one of those brands that sends out boxes of, like, stuff, like, golf stuff, like a like a thread up not thread up.

Heidi [00:28:00]:
Like a like a stitch box or what is it? Yeah. Kinda like that. But like golf.

Amy Barnhart [00:28:03]:
So they wanted to do their own brands or their own, like, apparel in there. So, like, that kind of thing. So, yeah, either complete brand new start ups, or people who have an existing, usually golf adjacent business. Or, you know, golf industry business.

Heidi [00:28:19]:
They're doing something in that world.

Amy Barnhart [00:28:21]:
Yeah.

Heidi [00:28:22]:
Okay. Alright. It's so cool. Like, this little this tiny little corner of the world you've built out for yourself, and it's it's treating you quite well. I mean, I know you have an exceptional freelancer to work with, but Oh, well,

Amy Barnhart [00:28:36]:
I hope so. But yeah. And my clients are all very nice, which is helpful. Like, they're all really good. So yeah.

Heidi [00:28:43]:
You haven't, like, you haven't had much PETA situations?

Amy Barnhart [00:28:48]:
Many. Especially, not recently. Yeah. Not recently. Like, they're all really great, like, super nice and, like, appreciative and

Heidi [00:28:55]:
Yeah. Just, like, a joy to work with. Yeah. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:28:58]:
I've been lucky. That's part of the reason why I was, like, I think I'm just all in on golf men's golf now. Yeah. Like, what do I have to complain about?

Heidi [00:29:04]:
Yeah. I feel like in a way, I mean, although it's interesting because I'm like in a way, I think it's reflective of your prices because often when, like, when any when anybody pushes on price or, you know, the freelancers really low price, like, that's I feel like when you start to see a lot more paid to clients and your prices are definitely not on the low side. They're arguably on the high side. And so that attracts a certain quality and caliber of client that tends to respect the freelancer more. But then you're, like, also not really getting any noes. And so it's like, where are they getting weeded out? They're not getting weeded out. They're just all great. Maybe the factory is weeding them out for you.

Amy Barnhart [00:29:46]:
Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I do. Most of my clients are for sure from, this factory, but I also I do get people from, like, Instagram or Google sometimes. Okay. So they're not all from the factory. Yeah.

Amy Barnhart [00:29:58]:
But, yeah, that that it's definitely possible.

Heidi [00:30:01]:
Yeah. What are you doing on Instagram and Google that's bringing people in?

Amy Barnhart [00:30:05]:
I haven't touched my Instagram in years, but if you search men's freelance golf designer or golf designer, I'm the first thing that comes up on Google in my Instagram. I don't know why.

Heidi [00:30:14]:
Okay. So This is what niche can do, dear listener. Like, literally haven't touched it in years.

Amy Barnhart [00:30:21]:
No. No. I haven't.

Heidi [00:30:23]:
But people find that and then reach out to you and are like, are you still do they are they like, are you still alive? Are they just, like, anyhow?

Amy Barnhart [00:30:30]:
They just yeah. Sometimes they'll message me on Instagram, which I don't check all that often. Those guys never seem to come through, but the people who come through my website Okay. Who found me on Instagram or found me on Google. I don't know if they found my Instagram on Google. I don't really know.

Heidi [00:30:47]:
Yeah. That's really interesting. And I know last time you were on the podcast or when the last time because this is your is this your 3rd time or second? 3rd. 2nd. 2nd. Okay.

Amy Barnhart [00:30:56]:
Then it

Heidi [00:30:56]:
must have been the last time you're on the podcast. You and I were chatting about you were tossing around the idea of possibly putting prices on your website to maybe act as a little bit of a filter. Did you ever do that or where are you at with that?

Amy Barnhart [00:31:07]:
I did. No one reads it, but they're on there. Yeah. I don't ever well, I rarely talk to someone who has looked at the prices. Even if someone emails and asks prices and I send them to my website, when I talk to them, they're like, what are your prices? So no one seems to look at it.

Heidi [00:31:23]:
They're not even paying attention.

Amy Barnhart [00:31:26]:
That's fine.

Heidi [00:31:26]:
I just wanna they just wanna hear it from you. Yeah. That's

Amy Barnhart [00:31:29]:
fine. Yeah. But, yeah, no one seems to look at it, but it is there. Yeah.

Heidi [00:31:34]:
One other thing I'd like for you to share. I know you've shared it elsewhere. I can't remember where we talked about it, but I think it'll be really valuable for people listening. Like like we talked about, you get a lot of yeses. You get almost all yeses. But you you lead your discovery calls really strategically. Would you talk through what you do on those calls and how you, like, show the clients the benefit of what they're gonna get?

Amy Barnhart [00:31:56]:
Yeah. A lot of this is from Nikki Rauch, who I know you've had on the podcast before. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah. So, like, I listened to a podcast with her describing a discovery call process that was, like, game changing. So I generally start it with actually, I don't really do this anymore. I probably should start doing it again.

Amy Barnhart [00:32:11]:
But, like, okay. I'll be scheduled for, like, 20 to 30 minutes, so they know, like, right away. There is a time limit to our conversation, kinda box it in. And then, yeah, I'll say, like, I'll generally already know something about them. So I'll say, like, yeah, I'd love to know more about, like, what you're working on, see if I'd be able to help you out. And then at the end of the call, if it makes sense for both of us, we talk about ways to work together. Does that sound good? They say yes. And then we talk about what they need.

Amy Barnhart [00:32:38]:
They generally get tech pack, and then I will offer to walk them through 1. And so then I'll do, like, a screen share, and I have a client facing, tech pack with, you know, no brands information in it. And I kinda walk them through each page, what's in it, like, the features, like, the benefits of the different parts, and then I'll show them, like, with this, you also get, like because I do trims as a separate, like, trim development card. So it's like a mini tech pack for the trim. I do it separate. So I'll show them example of that, tell them how many of them they get with the tech pack, show them, like, the point of measure guide, and then talk through how I they get, like, the tech packs in Excel and, like, the benefits of that. It'll be editable, they get the edit the native files, and then I usually say, because I know this is I work with people who I work with clients who have had an issue with this, so I know it can be an issue. Say, like, I know some freelancers or agencies only get, like, a PDF, and then if you wanna work with someone else, you have to start over.

Amy Barnhart [00:33:32]:
I don't do that. All the files are yours. They're all editable. So I kinda talk through Mhmm. The benefits of everything they're getting, all the extras that they get, and then the things that they don't know they need to be worried about yet that I don't do. Because I feel like when I'm buying something, the people that I've worked with who are the most, like, good at selling themselves would do that, where they'd be like, I used to do this thing, and then I learned it didn't work, and I don't do it anymore. Like, I know some people who do this job do it this way, and here's why I don't do that. So I kinda talk through, like, all those things, so they know.

Heidi [00:34:04]:
What would be an example?

Amy Barnhart [00:34:06]:
So, like, how I get them to edit little files.

Heidi [00:34:09]:
Oh, okay. I thought you Oh, sorry. The new one

Amy Barnhart [00:34:11]:
is a good example.

Heidi [00:34:13]:
No. No. No. The Oh. The PDF versus the Excel was a great example. I just I didn't understand that's exactly what you were referencing. I thought you said things that I don't do. Like, there's things within the scope of your work that are not included is what I thought I heard you say.

Heidi [00:34:25]:
But I think it was No.

Amy Barnhart [00:34:26]:
Like, I I don't do like, I don't give you the uneditable files. Like, I give you, like, the editable files, like, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I just walk them through all that, and then, we'll say, like, I could definitely, like, help you. Do you wanna talk about pricing? And then they'll say yes, and then we'll I'll tell them the price, and I'll ask them how it works with their budget, and then, yeah, go from there. And then talk about, like, if they wanna work together, like, how the next part of the process works. Like, I'll send them, like, the contracts, that kinda thing.

Amy Barnhart [00:34:55]:
Yeah. And then what they can expect after that. So then after that, I send them, like, next steps. So they kinda know what the phases look like, and I'm gonna be, like, walking them through it, especially because, like, when they're start ups, they kinda need you holding their hands so that they know they're, like, taken care of through it. So I walk them through all that.

Heidi [00:35:12]:
Totally. I love thank you for explaining that. And I love, like especially when you're working with a start up brand that doesn't really know, and you're like, a tech pack, and you attach this price to it, and they kind of don't even really know, like, what is a tech pack, or why is it this price versus it's not a $100 or something. I don't know if you saw the video I just did on YouTube. We'll link to that video in the show notes, on what you get for a $10 between a $10 $150 tech pack. And I think that, you know, especially with startups, there's a lot of, there's just a misunderstanding because they don't quite know why there's a certain price attached to a tech pack. And so when you walk them through and you visually show them, here's all the things that I'm gonna do. Here's how I'm gonna deliver it.

Heidi [00:35:57]:
Here's why this is beneficial for you. Here's why you need this. Specifically, talking to some of the pain points that, you know, some of them have already had, like, getting the uneditable PDF, it become the price becomes like a no brainer. Like, it's a secondary compared to, oh, and I'm this is why, you know, this this tech pack is going to be so thorough that the factory is gonna do an exceptional job, and it's gonna make the product development process so much smoother and quicker and less money because you're not wasting money on, like, protos and all the sampling and stuff. Yeah. I mean, to me, it's it's so clear why your sales funnel and, like, your sales call strategy works extremely well?

Amy Barnhart [00:36:39]:
Hope so. It seems to be going okay. Yeah.

Heidi [00:36:44]:
I mean, clearly, it's working. And I think you were the one that rec that that told me about Nikki Roche. Mhmm. You were. Yeah. And then I brought her on the podcast, and then we brought her in for, like, a special training because she's so amazing.

Amy Barnhart [00:36:54]:
Mhmm.

Heidi [00:36:54]:
So we'll link to her episode as well on sales strategy and psychology. There's there's so much to it.

Amy Barnhart [00:37:00]:
Yeah. So, like, super helpful. Like, yeah, definitely changed, like, the way I handle things and, like, the way things are received, for sure.

Heidi [00:37:09]:
That's amazing. That's amazing. I know you've been asked this before, but I'll ask you you the question again that I ask at the end of every episode, and that is what is one thing you wish people would ask you about freelancing in fashion that they never do?

Amy Barnhart [00:37:22]:
Alright. I think I have the same answers last time.

Heidi [00:37:24]:
I don't even know what it is. So Oh, that's a surprise for me.

Amy Barnhart [00:37:27]:
No one will. So that's okay. Yeah. I feel like people hear you work in the fashion industry, and they have this idea in their head of, like, what it is. And it's, you know, not usually I feel like it's not like a it's either a very unrealistic, like, Project One Way expectation of what it is or, like, a like, that's not a real job. Like, why would you get paid for that? And so I think maybe asking, like, what do you actually do? So, you know, you can walk through, like, oh, I make a tech pack, and the tech pack is, like, the blueprint the factory needs to make the garment, like, what the actual job is. Yeah. To kind of explain why our industry exists, I think would be a good question.

Heidi [00:38:08]:
Yeah. We'll save that for another episode. Thank you for coming on the show again. It's been lovely to have

Amy Barnhart [00:38:15]:
you. Yeah. Thanks so much.