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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
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My name is Yuda Caldas and I am from Afiliapub. I am business manager. And today we are talking about affiliates in Brazil market. So it's a great and a pleasure to be here. Currently, we lead the global ranking in website traffic for online bet in Brazil. And our market has been very attractive to various operators. Could you share your opinion on this high demand and what operates need to remember when you start the operation, Simon, please? I can definitely kick that off, yeah. So, I moved here with my family exactly one year ago, coming from Europe, from Denmark, where Beta Collective is having its headquarter. And it's been a steep learning curve in that one year. for better collective, but with everything that's going on in the business with the up and coming regulation. My advice and input to the operators based on this year would be localization. Take it serious, remember. And Brazil is definitely not just one market. Essentially, every state is very different. Their behavior is very different. The interest of the people in every state is very different. It's all about sports, of course, that is the one common thing, football. But localization, when you build your team and your operations, I'd be focusing very much on that. That's what we've been doing, hiring a lot on the ground in both Sao Paulo and in Rio for the last year. And I think that was a good decision. Anastasia? Yeah, sure. So obviously, Brazil, the town is a great market. It has a lot of players and it can be certainly attractive for its affiliates as well. You just need to dive in the culture, do your research on like cultural differences so you know how to promote. But overall, I think Brazil is a great market. Wanda, please. Brazil is a huge country, 22 times the population of my country, which is Portugal. So we are very humble to believe that entering the Brazilian market, although we speak Portuguese as the same mother language, it's a different country, different culture. So we have to be very humble, get to know the different states of Brazil, different people in Brazil because it's not the same. We cannot treat Brazil as just a country. It's like a big, big continent. So we are very humbling on our approach to Brazil. And we believe that a very localized approach from the operators is going to get them better results and after that for as affiliates too. Please, Thomas. All right. First things first, guys, thank you very much. SBC. This is amazing. I'm so proud. to be sitting at my very first SBC, which is the very first SBC in Brazil in Rio de Janeiro. I've been a part of SBCs in Barcelona, Miami, all over the place and now in Rio, guys, I couldn't be prouder. Thank you, Vanda, for the question. I'm Thomas Carvalhoz. I used to be an operator. Most of my career in iGaming has been as an operator for the last 12 years now. I'm on the other side as a provider with Great Tech. And I think, Vanda, perhaps the first thing I need to tell operators coming into Brazil and affiliates coming into Brazil, of course, and affiliate companies, media companies, marketing companies, whatever you want to call it, is of course, 100% agreeing with Simon with his massive experience from Better Collective and all the other markets is do your homework, try your best to understand the local culture. Because what happens a lot of times, and I've seen the happening, Vanda, is... operators from overseas come into Brazil, launch their business, Google translate it, put a sombrero on Ronaldinho and say that's Brazilian enough, you know what, we should be making money in Brazil, then they don't make it. And then you know what? Market's not good. The market's not good or you haven't done your homework? Have you hired local talent to understand the culture of people and make it relevant to them? So it might sound very simple, but it's actually a very crucial part of the strategy. I totally agree. We are talking about this because we are different. We are all in Brazil, but it's different in the North. It's different here, the accent, the way we talk. So I think the operators need to learn how to introduce our brand inside the Brazil market. I totally agree with you about this. And yeah, I think they need to learn about this. Our market has gained significant recognition through influencers and streamers, which is excellent for the visibility. However, regarding affiliates, we face difficulties in reaching a substance audience. Please, we can start with Flanda, if it's okay. Well, we work with influencers and streamers in the Brazilian market. It's obviously a great way to communicate. to a part of the Brazilian population, especially the young ones. But the traditional verticals we work with, like SEO, PPC, media buying, they still work in Brazil. We just have to make sure that we're not speaking to 220 million. But we are getting for each state, for the people from soccer, football club, if we're speaking to Rio, Janeiro, or to Sao Paulo, we have to show different promotions. different set up of colors because that's important to get the relationship with the people who are watching your brand. Yeah, totally agree. Please Simon, could you share with us about this? Yeah I think with the acquisition of football sites, we have all the great people from football sites sitting right there. Obviously we're in a little bit of a different situation that we can do both the traditional media play with... within the all our assets in South America with the within sports media. We have some really strong assets. But that being said, even if you have legacy media, if we can call it that you in this region, there is no way around it that you need to be doing streaming. You need to be working with influencers. You need to be in that whole social media sphere. That's where it's going on very much. The platforms are ever changing. The audience will move around, you have to adjust if you want to be relevant. So that's our approach. Okay. Could you share first, Thomas? Yeah, it's absolutely a must. You know, if we consider that Brazil is a country with not everybody in Brazil had access to internet because that demanded a computer and not everybody had money to buy a computer back then. Now the mobile phones, smart phones have revolutionized that entirely. But you know what, Brazilians we like, and I think that's why, one of the reasons why influencers are such a success here, which is kind of like being told and being explained, not being told in a bad way, but being like explained and shown the way. And that's what influencers do. You know, actually influencers nowadays, they have much more influence, which is a redundancy, but they have much more influence on to the lives of youngsters and everything else than teachers. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but again, if you have an affiliate or an acquisition strategy for Brazil, that doesn't include influencer marketing, social medias, you know, the new tools, new trends. It's very unlikely that it's going to That's going to work. We can, though, maybe later down the panel, we can, though, start talking. And I can talk as for what I believe to be responsible or irresponsible, because, I mean, that's a completely different topic. But as for the need for having influencers pushing out a marketing message for an operator that wants to be a hit, to be a success in Brazil, absolutely a must. Anas, ask it please. Yeah, I think that compared to other geos, influencers in Brazil as a type of traffic is much larger. And the main focus of influencers and streamers is to boost visibility, enhance brand image, and as an affiliate who's other traffic sources, you have to work in common to like operators, affiliates, influencers, everyone has to show the same vision. And if you're talking about other traffic source like PPC or SEO, obviously you need to do your research as well. Like Thomas said before, don't use Google Translate or so on. Try to launch separate campaigns. So do some A-B testing. See how it works. See how it works better. So yeah, pretty much it. I totally agree. And I believe the education, the local. the government has been education in the local place. So we have this responsibility and they have been doing. We have a lot of problems about the influencers in the past, but nowadays I think we have so many things to learn, so many things to have a great solution. So yeah, I totally agree about you. And how is the process of working with new operators? Yes, you can. So that's a good question. And as with all new markets in Brazil, even though it's been, Thomas said he's been around for a few years. So it's not like it's a new market, but it's still not regulated. Right. So, so in that sense, things are flowing and evolving all the time. And of course you will have, you have the big international operators, but you will also have some new local ones that will work. in different ways and being, let's say, very creative from time to time. I think that that's something you have to navigate. It all comes back to, again, compliance whenever there is a regulation in place, ethics, stuff like that. But we've seen that coming from Europe and rolling out in the US, it's the same everywhere. It's the same playbook. The market needs to stabilize and find its ways. And of course, regulation needs to be in place at the end of the day. It's for the benefit of everyone, not least the users. So they get some sustainable set up to have fun in. Zolinda, please. Well, I think we all agree that regulation is going to be a major part of this year. We've been in Brazil for a long, long time. And of course the market has been changing because the first approach was the global brands coming here without even knowing the market. So for example, they didn't have the right methods of depositing. And then they started to adapt. And now it's going to be another big period of adaptation for a regulated market, which is good for everyone. It's good for the brands, good for the affiliates and even good for the players that will be able to. trust the brands. So it's going to be good. It's going to be, we are going to need to adapt ourselves to the values of the market. But everybody sees potential. You have more than 140 brands going for the licenses. So everybody sees potential here. And I believe there's space for everyone and everybody is going to find their niche to work on. I just think we need to set some basic foundational truth here. First, of course, Brazil is in the process of being regulated. However, I think we, people working in the industry, we need to be careful in saying it's a regulated market because that's not the case yet. That's an incorrect misleading to an extent, not a statement, because we're still waiting for the actual licensing, the tendering process to take place. There's a few, I don't call them decrees, but it's almost like portarias, which is specific direction for specific, like say platforms, what should we do and what they shouldn't, PSP. So we call them portarias, which I don't really know the correct translation over to English, but it's like small clauses to the whole law as well. So we need to wait for all this to be published, for companies to adapt to those. And then once that is done, the operators will be then applying for their license, their gaming license in Brazil. From the moment in time licenses begin being issued, then we can say, yes, we are now a regulated market. We're in a fantastic process, Vanda and everybody here. We've been waiting for this for very long. I remember from working in Jackpot City, the Wintec group, you know, that way back in the days, you know. We used to dream of the day Brazil would be a regulated market. It was back in 2007, 2008. We're now in 2024, and we're still in the process, but I mean, there's been some major advancements. But I mean, I need to split this, because one thing is your gaming operator license. The other thing is your marketing, how you do marketing, what's allowed, what's not allowed. I think that's going to form part of the law. However, most of the time, if we look at Brazil, the way things are enforced, there's CONAR, which is the self-regulated agency who looks at all forms of publishing advertising in Brazil, specifically for publishing and advertising. And I have specialists here in marketing. I have Juliana. I have Better Collective. I have Vanda, everybody that knows way more than me when it comes to advertising and publishing. But for that end specifically, there's been some guidelines, right, for which you guys already have to adhere to. But one thing though is if there's any operator here, anybody willing to come into Brazil as an operator, for that purpose, we're still waiting for some final guidelines. And please, guys, I'll stand corrected by anyone here, not only by the panel. If there's any... remarks, observations, please feel free. But I mean, that's the current picture as far as I'm aware. Anastasia, please. Yeah, I won't go in depth. I will just, there's no like step-by-step guide as to how you should work with a new brand, with a new operator. The most important thing is trust. And conferences are a great way to show your trust, show your brand, make some deals. and stay connected. We love in our company, we love to schedule calls with all of our partners just to do some heads up. So we're going to do that. How do you feel about it? Or they're asking us to do something and we say, yeah, we can do that. No problem. So yeah, of course, there are some mistakes. No, no people can escape mistakes. But The trust is the most important thing in our partnership in affiliate marketing in iGaming industry. Yes, totally. How do you see the overdevelopment of the affiliate marketing in Brazil at this stage? We can start, Thomas, please. Development of the affiliate marketing? I think it's amazing. I think, I mean, if I look at the development of it, I mean, I don't really try hard here not to go into the bad examples. because we've seen a lot of those lately, which became a bit of an issue. But if I look at how it's developing, I think it's fantastic. In fact, I think there's two reasons why, Vanda, the sports betting or the fixed quota, online betting regulation is at the stages it is at the moment. There's two major catalyst forces here. One of them is that the industry has Imposed itself we operators we came in strong. We were making money to the point that the government were looking at us I said, you know what we're actually missing out on the party. We're missing our piece of the pie here We got to jump in, you know, this is not gonna stop Online gaming sports betting casino is here to stay eventually they woke up and the second force here is the power of influencer influencing marketing, you know, I think those two forces have led us to be as Brazilian as a Brazil market. This is what has brought us to be where we are. Operators imposing itself irrespective of a regulation and to influence their social media market. Please, Simon, you can. I can definitely tip in. So I agree with Thomas. I think I won't repeat all he said, but I think it's definitely advanced just in the last year, but for the last many years in reality. I think the big topic and something that is very much top of mind in Better Collective is safer gambling and how to help the users. navigate in this jungle. Here in Rio, we basically have the jungle right out here, right? But the bedding landscape is a jungle and can be very not transparent. So I think from a political point of view, that's something that's needed. There is some education that needs to be done. And I think the affiliates play a big part in educating the users as to... what they can do, what they should do, what they should not do. And that's something we're investing a lot in from Red Pellective, in companies, in technology. So I think, yeah, that's probably my input for this one. As far as the value of the market, I think we're just repeating ourselves. We all believe in Brazil. That's why we're all here. And this event is such a huge success. Taking on what Thomas was also saying, I believe that we as affiliates are part of the responsible gaming part of the process. So as far as Brazil is still on a process of regulating the gambling and the sports betting, as far as advertising, we already have, for example, the hashtag propaganda, and we'll have more guidelines. And for example, for us at Clever, we are working with a lot of influencers. We take. A lot of time in educating our influencers guarantee they say all the compliance sentences and guidelines the brands gave to us. And also we guarantee that they are not selling a fake dream. You're not going to be living out of it. You are playing with real money. So that's part of us as an affiliate. If we're doing a good job, if we are following the rules, it's going to be better for everyone. So That's part of what we're doing in our strategy in Brazil, in all regulated markets we are working in. Anastasia? Yeah, so if you're working with iGaming, you already know that the industry is constantly changing. And the new market in Brazil is just another trend, another step. And you just have to adapt to it, hop on the train to work, basically. So yeah, you. of course have to have some experience but even if you keep trying, no matter what you're doing you're going to do something right. Yes, of course. I think one thing though for marketing agencies and I really include everything in there from SEO over to affiliate social media, everything. You guys have a proper weight, a proper wagon to pull when it comes to that because you know what I see? some marketing companies doing and you know it can be deemed as incorrect, it can be deemed as unlawful but I mean selling at any cost to the point of not educating your influencers and allowing them to sell gambling, allowing them to sell sports betting as means of income and as means of changing your life. It can be good today. You may make money, you can make an extra buck here and there, but in the end of the day, what we're doing by doing that is shooting our own foot. Because you see, the government is watching us. They're watching everything. And not only learning best practices from European markets, but they're seeing and people are complaining. And then you know what? They're going to start cutting off. And if I'm not mistaken, part of the Connors guidelines for marketing is that influencer marketing is not allowed. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that's part of the marketing guidelines from Conair. But I mean, that's only one example of things we should be avoiding. You know, in fact, in order to actually help creating a healthier market in terms of responsible gaming as well. Because there's been many, many cases, you know, this became national news. And please, you guys correct me if I'm wrong, okay? I don't mind. I don't have such thing as... is a pride here, really, I really want to be corrected if I'm wrong. But there's been national news around specific games, not the games itself, but the way it was being sold, the way the message was being portrayed over to their target audience. That's where the problem was. So I think marketing agencies, and I'm kind of including myself in the pot here, carry a massive responsibility in that. I just want to say, I don't know if it wasn't clear enough, we do the exactly opposite. We don't sell the dream. They say they are, oh, okay. Okay. Because we say they are playing with real money. They are losing money. We explain everything. That's that just want to make that really, really clear. But I think you guys are doing the responsible way. What I'm saying is there's been cases where influencers, you know, you know, we're like, we're very. How do I say this? Very vulnerable in a lot of ways. And I'm not of the opinion that government should be overprotective as in having a fatherly role, but it is what it is sometimes in Brazil. And then you have an influencer that you love, that you wanna be like them, and you see them in Dubai driving a Ferrari, you know, yellow Ferrari and saying, I made this on this game. If you bet now, you're gonna change your life, you're gonna be just like me. No. Let me just say it feels close to home for you because it's Brazil but it's like that everywhere. Portugal is small but we're very of course connected with influencers. It's a way of living today, it's the generation of today. So it's just not a Brazilian subject, it's pretty much a subject everywhere we're working. And Mayel said that with influencers there is a fine line for brands, for operators to research them fairly because... if the audience is very young, it's like a disaster. And a lot of influencers, like their main audience are kids and they're going to like show advertised gambling and it's just not the way it should go. Yes, yes, I totally agree. Unfortunately, we have this culture to see the easy part and say, OK, we go there and we make this. And sometimes we don't have the truth. and some people say, okay, I can't believe and like in the past last year we faced this. The media always talk about the problem with influencers, the problem with operators, branding and actually like I think the other panel told betting in the past is not so good for Brazil. So for now we have this power to educate the population to show the betting is a a way to be someone, you know, a way to do some good things in the country. You know, the money we spend in bed come to the country and we can help. You know, so I think we have this power today. What do you think Simon about this, please? I think, I think it all comes back to everybody, probably in this room, what we want and what we should be working for is to create a sustainable. market because it's of no use for anyone. One thing is compliance, again, ethics, but in the long run for running a business, you need a sustainable setup. You need to treat the users right. And that way, the market will develop in a positive way for everyone. go into details on influencers and lots of stuff. But at the end of the day, we all need to work, affiliates, operators, everyone in this ecosystem for a sustainable setup. Otherwise, it's of no use. Okay, I think we have finished, please. I even feel honored to be here. Thank you for attention. Thank you for sharing with me your expertise. Thank you.