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NWA Founders is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, and is hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
'NWA Founders' is a voice for Founders, Owners, and Builders driving growth in Northwest Arkansas, hosted by Cameron Clark and Nick Beyer.
To recommend a guest or ask questions, reach out at nwafounders@gmail.com and follow us on YouTube and LinkedIn for video content.
[00:00:00] Carl Garrett: Two things will kill
[00:00:01] Cameron Clark: you in a restaurant business. Rent and labor. If one of those was out of balance, you're done 2011, the 2018, taking some mails, taking some losses, what would you tell that person who's maybe in that season right there? Don't discount,
[00:00:14] Nick Beyer: don't cheapen what you do. Open three restaurants now, but then the next two are acquisitions.
Would you recommend that? Do you like building it better from the ground up? I mean, table masa,
[00:00:24] Carl Garrett: it, it annoyed me when the other taco place opened up and then you had a, a tequila Mexican joint. That annoyed me, but I forgot the reason why I was here. Those are distractions. We just had a focus within our four walls.
You could do social media and go come on out and show 'em great pictures. Forget about that word of mouth. That's the best advertising. It'll never fail. Why build a business in northwest
[00:00:46] Cameron Clark: Arkansas?
[00:00:46] Carl Garrett: Well, northwest Arkansas is.[00:01:00]
[00:01:00] Cameron Clark: Carl, thanks a bunch for coming on this morning. Carl Garrett with Table Restaurant Group. Yes, sir. And so before we get rolling, how many restaurants do y'all have now? Eight. Uh, well actually
[00:01:12] Carl Garrett: we're nine, excuse me, 10 on paper. Seven that are active operating. Um, the eighth one, uh, we're not sure who's gonna be number eight.
We're, we're doing one simultaneously in Jacksonville, Florida, which is a Tablo
[00:01:29] Nick Beyer: mm-hmm.
[00:01:29] Carl Garrett: Italian style restaurant. Some people say Ola, but it's
[00:01:33] Cameron Clark: actually Tabla. Yes, sir. So we get Right. Yes. That's, anyway, like, you know,
[00:01:36] Carl Garrett: but, but tablet is how, how we pronounce it. And then we have table at the center, which will be on the new Walmart campus.
Mm-hmm. So they're both vying for about January, February, you know, to open. Yeah. So we think at this point in time, Jacksonville's building is far more head and, um. Than, than the one at the Walmart
[00:01:59] Cameron Clark: campus. So, [00:02:00] so, so tell us what's the most challenging part, kind of today, of, of being an owner of a restaurant group.
Like there's very few people here in northwest Arkansas that are like, they kind of have that scale. Like what, what is the biggest pain point kind of, of managing all of this right now?
[00:02:20] Carl Garrett: I think the biggest challenge for us, it will always be people. You know, uh, I think people, uh, uh, will bring a great res.
You, you have to have them. And so I think that we have to get folks that are grounded, that have goals, have values, um, want to do the right thing. Um, it's more important, I think, than, than the iq, how smart you are or how many restaurants you worked at. Whereas we prefer people who have a high, uh, hospitality quotient of thinking.
Mm-hmm. Wanting to serve. And I think that's the toughest [00:03:00] thing that we run into is, is the heart of the servant, you know? Mm-hmm. Wow. That would, that would be, and from the top down, finding those people. Yeah. Finding them. And I hoping that mom and dad did a great job with them, you know, and that's where begins in the family at home and then you come in and then we can, uh, because you know, when you get a job, the nurturing kind of stops.
'cause now you're getting paid. To do something to make that person's business better. So whether you're working in a restaurant or you're in construction or you know, real estate or something, that person, whoever you bring on, has to better your business. Sure. 'cause you're paying them.
[00:03:37] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[00:03:38] Carl Garrett: Oh yeah. You know, so that's, that, that's, that's a bit of a challenge I think, um, because, you know, you get nurtured at home, right?
Mm-hmm. You get nurtured at school. College, I think you might be on your own for, as you guys can testify, I don't think anybody, you got about an hour in a class or something and then you gotta do a lot of study on your own and you [00:04:00] hope to get a great. Great. Right. So, and work is kind of like that too. So, but sometimes people need more nurturing and, um, that may be okay in some cases, especially if you're hiring, uh, some teenagers, you know, we try to go maybe 16 to 18 on, on the low range where we can train 'em to bus tables and work at our front desk and, and just kinda learn the ropes.
Mm-hmm. You know, so, um, and then, then we can help develop them and hopefully, you know, help with, in the community with some good life skills as well.
[00:04:34] Cameron Clark: Yeah. So, yeah. That's, that's amazing. So talk, talk about, so y'all moved here, you and your wife, uh, moved here from Seattle, correct. Uhhuh and 2008, right? Right.
Mm-hmm. And why Bentonville? What was the, what was the big reason and you moved here to start Table Mesa, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know why Bentonville?
[00:04:53] Carl Garrett: Uh. You know, I could give you the short answer, you know, it was a [00:05:00] spiritual journey and give you this pontifical stuff, you know, and some people may get that and some people won't.
I think it really goes further back.
[00:05:08] Nick Beyer: Hmm.
[00:05:08] Carl Garrett: You know, um, yes. My, my wife, you know, one time we, we were talking about, 'cause we had a partner in Seattle, we had a very high volume restaurant in downtown Seattle, but we wanted to totally be out on our own, you know? And, uh, so my wife just came across something.
She saw something that said Rogers a fast growing area or something like that. And, and, but she didn't know where it was. She didn't catch the state or anything like that. And then she had a, actually had a dream about it. She said, make, you know, I think we're supposed to go to a place. 'cause we were looking for areas.
And when she said, well, I think it's this area called Rogers. And, um, I thought for a moment, Rogers, Rogers, uh, you know, look. Scanning around Seattle. I couldn't find a Rogers. I mean, there's Bellevue, there's Redmond, and you know, stuff like that. But there was no Rogers. And then I went far south as Portland, see if there's [00:06:00] a Rogers in the Portland area.
'cause you know, we were willing to do that. But no, no such thing. And then a few weeks later, I'm driving home and it hit me that I did know Rogers, and I think I mentioned to you that I opened Cozy Mels a Mexican restaurant in Little Rock. Yep. And I met a guy, he asked me how I like, um, uh, little Rock. I said, eh, it's, it's okay.
And he goes, yeah, yeah, it's tough here. And I said, well, where do you live? And he says, well, I live in Rogers, Arkansas. He says, I live in God's country. So exactly what he said. And I said, oh really? I'll have to go check that out. You know, and it, and that was the end of the conversation. So that was 1993.
Fast forward to early 2008. Late 2007, somewhere in that range. It dawned on me. Isn't that funny? How we can remember Wow. Mm-hmm. Things like that. So, so that kind of started it. My partner opened a couple of restaurants in the Denver area. I went out there to help him, and United happens to have a direct flight from Denver to [00:07:00] x and a.
So I thought, I'll go, go check this Rogers place out. So I took a flight over, drove around the area, had a commercial real estate guy show me everywhere around here. Um, but the square. I. And so the last day that I was here, I went out on my own just to investigate the market.
[00:07:19] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[00:07:19] Carl Garrett: And I, and I, I was going down, headed north on, uh, Walton, Saul, central Central's like Main Street, right?
Yeah. So you gotta be good stuff down there. So I took a right and I came across as charming, historic square. And I called the real estate guy, guy and I said, uh, hey, how come you didn't tell me about this historic square? He goes, ah, you don't wanna be down there. It, it'll go bankrupt. Mm-hmm. So I thought, wow, you know, but who wouldn't want to be in a little historic town and have a little bistro and, and just enjoy life, you know?
No. Yeah. Uh, major traffic anymore with 4 million people and all that stuff. And so that's kind of how it went. And then it just started [00:08:00] to connect
[00:08:01] Cameron Clark: more after that. And was there, uh, so 2008, was there any, was there a restaurant where Table Mace is right now? No, no, no. That was an
[00:08:09] Carl Garrett: office
[00:08:10] Cameron Clark: supply.
[00:08:10] Carl Garrett: Matter of fact, that place had no infrastructure for a restaurant.
How it's a restaurant to this day is miraculous. I don't know. But there was no place for a grease trap. No place for a hood. Wow. I mean, it was just, uh, you know, a crawl space. You're always repairing floor jo in that restaurant. Yeah. And there's always a lot of work. It's kinda like that movie, the Money Pit, it's kinda like that.
It's a great location, I would say on the real estate. If you're great in it, I'd give it an a plus. But on the trade off, you gotta do a lot of
[00:08:42] Cameron Clark: fix it up. Oh yeah. So well talk about, so like, getting into that space, when did you know, hey, this was like, I mean you saw that, hey, this, this like charming square.
Obviously there wasn't all these super nice houses around there at the time.
[00:08:55] Nick Beyer: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:55] Cameron Clark: Um, maybe a, maybe a few. I, I don't know. Yeah. Actually had a few. Yeah, yeah. But like [00:09:00] talk Yeah. Talk about okay, this is the site and then like building it out, choosing what the concept was gonna be. Did you know, kind of leading up to it based off of, 'cause you worked in restaurants pretty much your hospitality all, all your life.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:14] Carl Garrett: So how did we know the question is how did we know to pick that spot? Yeah, sure. You know? Sure. So, um. Like I said, on my last day of the journey, you know, I was walking around and I went over to this little coffee shop, I think it's called Java Coffee or something, and they were jackhammering the sidewalks up.
They're always, even back then they were doing construction, right? And uh, I went in to the coffee shop. I said, man, you must like being in this really small town, isn't this, you know, how's business? And he goes, uh, it was like he talking to ior. He said, no, it's not good. It's bad. They're tearing up, you know, nobody's coming down here.
And then I noticed there was Joan Soda. I don't know if you know anything about Joan Soda that originated outta Seattle. Mm-hmm. He had a whole cooler of Joan Soda and [00:10:00] I, I took that as a indicator for some reason. I don't know why I said, you know, I said, you know that Joan Soda, where that's from? He said, no, I don't, I said, it's from Seattle.
You, you guys, guys that Seattle product. Big deal. Right? So, um, then like I said, I made that phone call to the, uh, the real, the commercial real estate guy and that's what he told me. You know, you, you're don't want to be down there. That's be a bad move for you. Then I thought to myself, if my wife likes this, 'cause she doesn't like change.
If I get her down here and she sees this and she feels the way I do, it's a done deal. Mm-hmm. So I came back a few weeks later with my wife. I showed her where the commercial real estate guy showed us, wasn't impressive. And she was, she really loved the square. So I call, I saw a sign flapping in the breeze.
It was, you know, it was, it was supposed to be a banner. Nicely tack, but no, it just broke loose. And so I was looking for the phone number on it, you know, and, and I, and I called the guy and, and there was an answering service or machine, and he said, look, my master actor, you know, [00:11:00] and, and I thought, well, I'm not gonna call that guy that seems grumpy, or he's like an angry guy.
I don't, you know, we'll keep looking around. And my wife said, why aren't you gonna call him back? I said, nah, he sounds like a grump. I'm gonna call this guy. And something in me said, call him again. Just like that, you know, like almost like a voice. Get up and call him pretty direct, you know, that may sound spooky, but that's how it was.
So I call him real nice voice answered, you know, hello, how are you? Said, Hey, I did leave a message on your machine. He goes, oh yeah, yeah, I live in Missouri, but I'll, I can give you 45 minutes. I can be down and I can show you the place. So he comes down and the pickup truck overall cigarette hanging out his mouth.
And I thought, Hmm, interesting. And I thought, well, let's don't judge. 'cause you never know these guys, you know, it could be like Jed Clampett, right? He owns, you know, probably the whole town. You never know. So, um, he shows us around and very, very smart business guy. You know, things aren't always as they appear or as they sound, right?
Mm-hmm. So we got a nice conversation and we started getting excited, [00:12:00] you know, this, wow. We could nice little bistro be like one of these little, like in New York and, you know, someplace in, uh, Greenwich Village. It kind of gave you that feel, you know, and, uh. And then it dawned on me, oh, what do you got for amperage?
You need power and gas and all. He goes, well, there's a gas, little skinny gas line was through there and he said, we got about 60, maybe 80 amps. And I said, well, we need about. 400, 600. Oh no, we can't do that because the city passed an ordinance. All the utility grounds gotta be underground. So all the utilities are underground.
So unless you wanna jackhammer and tear up the roads and the sidewalk, go for it. I said, no, we can, we can't, we can't do that. At that moment, when he said that the mayor of Bentonville is walking by, his name was, uh, Bob McCaslin. Hmm. And he, you know, impeccably dressed, they got a carnation, like typical small town, you know man.
Yeah. And he says, Hey David, how you doing? David Coggins owned the building. And he says, good, good. Mr. Mayor said these folks here from [00:13:00] Seattle and they wanna open up a restaurant, but they can't open up a restaurant here 'cause you guys got all these utilities underground and we can't be tearing up the sidewalk.
He goes, hold on David, hold on, hold on, let me make a phone call. So he whips out his cell phone, makes a call to the utility company. Within three minutes, he gets an answer and he says, David, there's a big telephone pole in the back alley that has three face power. They can get all the amps, they can just hook up to their panel, get all they want.
Wow. Done.
[00:13:27] Cameron Clark: Wow.
[00:13:28] Carl Garrett: Right on cue that that mayor can, so we made a handshake deal and um, I said, wow, just like that, you know, no lawyers, nothing like that. Well, later we had to have a lawyer finalized lease. But that's how we did. We made our, we made our deal. Got on a plane. Then I was thinking, how in the heck am I going to figure out a kitchen and a bar?
[00:13:47] Nick Beyer: Yeah,
[00:13:47] Carl Garrett: because it was one storefront.
[00:13:49] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm. So
[00:13:49] Carl Garrett: if you look at Table Mesa, so when you go into the main entrance where the awning is, that space to the left, that was the one storefront, 1600 square feet, maybe a little bit more. That was it. [00:14:00] Wow. So how do you make money, you know, with that, with how many seats and how many, you know, table turns.
And by the way, after five o'clock, nobody is on the square. Might do a little bit of lunch trade with the court and you know, and I don't know, maybe prisoners. I know, but you know, you, you get a little bit of daytime business.
[00:14:17] Cameron Clark: And were there any other restaurants downtown at the time?
[00:14:20] Carl Garrett: I think there was the station cafe.
Yes, there was the station cafe. Okay. He is the first guy, actually he had a little cafe over there. His name was Cecil. Nice guy. Mm-hmm. Nice guy. And uh, but you know, we were on the plane, I guess we probably were back home in Seattle, maybe a day. And he calls me and he says, uh, hey, uh, Mr. Garrett, the people next door just went up and left and didn't pay the rent.
Do you want that space? And I said, yeah, that's all kitchen and bar like that. Wow. So that's how that happened. So everything came in, you know, in order, if you will. And I'll tell you something, [00:15:00] being a developer, you would appreciate this, that, um, we moved here in August. 2008 and, and Table Mesa opened its doors, uh, uh, October 16th.
Oh my gosh. Of 2008. Wow. It's a couple months. Wow. No, no, it's crazy. No, I, I don't ask me how, how to explain that. Um, I'd love to be able to spin you a story on how that came about, but it is what it is. And it came about, and then gradually, now, you know, it, it's been a process. You know, when I, I, I feel like, uh, when God opens doors for you.
It's still a process.
[00:15:37] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[00:15:38] Carl Garrett: Still a process.
[00:15:39] Cameron Clark: And, and about the process. So talk about, I mean, did your previous experience managing restaurants being, like, in all the different parts of the hospitality business, did, did you know how to manage the build out, how to hire, you know, do like, manage cost of goods and all, all, like, or was, or was Taylor Mesa kind of the first one, Hey, we're, we're [00:16:00] figuring this out?
[00:16:00] Carl Garrett: No. You know, having worked for corporate America and, and I've worked for Gilbert Robinson, what's owned all the hoi hands, so very, it taught me business, you know, and, uh, working for, uh, Houston's restaurant taught me operations and working for Brinker International taught me how a publicly c held company is run, very bottom line oriented.
Um, and so I was, I knew how to open restaurants, so they put me on opening restaurant teams so I could, I could open a restaurant, hire the staff. Do all of that. Uh, I didn't really get my real training until Seattle, until my partner Jack gave me the opportunity to change the, uh, uh, uh, a tired concept that I ran back in the, in the, uh, mid to late nineties to change the concept.
So it was a restaurant in downtown Seattle called Desert Fire. We switched it over to, to, and rebranded it to Mexico [00:17:00] Cantina. Now, the reason why we did that, 'cause Desert Fire was a southwestern restaurant, nobody really understood what Southwestern restaurants were. You know, we had a little bit of California, you know, cuisine and Tex-Mex all hodgepodge.
And I had to explain when we put Mexico up there, well that fixed that they knew what kind of restaurant that was. Right. So, but he, um, I got to hire the architect. I interviewed several architects, builders, and got, and I was that practically the GC on that job. So I, that's where I got my real training.
From that regard to, um, you know, dealing with subs and mm-hmm.
[00:17:39] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Carl Garrett: And budgeting and all of that. So operations I had, but I, I lacked, but I got that training in Seattle and that helped me and I'm still learning, you know, so,
[00:17:50] Cameron Clark: and well, and, and what would you tell someone who's like, thinking about opening their first concept?
I mean, I guess even here in northwest Arkansas, it's like, you know, can we handle more restaurants here? But just, but really like [00:18:00] that first time business, like maybe they've worked in the kitchen of restaurant, maybe they've worked front of house. What would you tell them? First concept? Like, do you recommend it?
Do you not?
[00:18:11] Carl Garrett: Yeah, I think everything's worth if, if, if it's burning in you to do it, you'll never know. Listen, we're all on the planet, you know, whatever. 70, 80, 90, a hundred, you make it a hundred years old. You know, when you expire and you, and you. Because we're all, we're never gonna get off the planet alive, are we?
I don't think, you know, maybe, maybe, but you know, there's no planning when you're dead. There's no creativity, there's nothing. I know it sounds a little morbid in a, in a sense, but do it now. If you got it and you're, you have that entrepreneur spirit, do it. You don't have to go broke and be stupid about it and take on a bunch of debt.
I would not recommend anybody to go, uh, I've just, I would recommend people to [00:19:00] save as much as they can and get into a place that you can afford. Mm-hmm. And if you need to partner up with somebody, fine, but don't. Take on something so big now you get lucky. I've seen lucky people do, do something. Yeah. And become, but they're few and far between.
That's an anomaly, you know? But I think that if you have that burning desire, get into something. If it's a food truck, if it's a thousand square foot deal, you and your wife got work it out and go for it. Go for it. You know?
[00:19:28] Nick Beyer: So talk about that. Talk about inception. Do you remember, I mean, how much rent was or what your cap, what capital requirements there were for you to start in that space?
Sure. It
[00:19:37] Carl Garrett: was just, are you talking about Table Mesa, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you,
[00:19:39] Nick Beyer: you, you get outta your partnership in Seattle.
[00:19:42] Carl Garrett: Yep. So we made a little money. Okay. There. Um, 'cause I was a minority partner, okay. You know, uh, very minority. Um, but it was a blessing for me to be part of that. And we saved our money.
We drove the same car. As a matter of fact, the car I was driving was probably 18 years old. Mercedes [00:20:00] 300 E. It's bulletproof. You can get ahold of one, keep it, or if you have it, keep it. But, um, but we both, my wife had a 98, I think little BMW nice luxury cars, but old. So, but we, you know, you don't have any payments on those things, right?
Mm-hmm. So we saved our money and so we basically, you know, uh, we're underwriting the whole project at Table Mesa. So we, I think we have a little loan. I don't even remember what it was. It wasn't much. Maybe eight, 9,000 bucks. That was about it. And, uh, we had some credit cards. You have, be careful how to use, but we didn't have a lot of credit line limit on those things, come to think of it.
But so that helped you. So you had to use every little resource that you had to be able to do that. And so the rent was. Affordable because the owner had very little resources for tenant improvement. So I had to do the fixing up, and he gave me the, the economic rent at the time. So I, I, we had a good rent deal, but I had to fix [00:21:00] the place up.
Hmm. And so that was a trade off, you know, so if you're willing to do that and you've got some handyman skills, or you've got some friends or whatever that can help you do this, then, then do that. But I think that's worth the risk. I, I, I'd do it all over again. Hmm. You know, but we spent every. Last cent. We had to do table.
I'm, and I'm not kidding you, there were, we had to lift up a prayer to make payroll. There was, there was a few times where there was a freeze that came in, if I remember, I think it was in two, 2008, still late December. And, um, shut us down for three days. We weren't expecting that, you know? Mm-hmm. So it was an ice storm.
I know you may maybe remember. Mm-hmm. It was spring of oh nine. Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:41] Cameron Clark: Like maybe January. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was bad. Yeah, it was bad. Yes. So
[00:21:45] Carl Garrett: we were down for three, three and a half, four days, and stuck at the house, you know, couldn't even get on the road, you know, and so that, that was tough, you know, and we had a handful of employees and, but I had to be [00:22:00] chef, I had to be manager.
I had to be gm. My wife was in the medical world. She worked for a dermatologist, so she had to learn the art of front of the house. But she's pretty, pretty, pretty savvy. So she, she caught onto it. So it's doable. You can, you can do this, you know. That's cool.
[00:22:15] Nick Beyer: So you spend all the money you have. Yep. You open up Table, Mesa, you move from Seattle to Bentonville, Arkansas, which at that point is, is sounds like a very sleepy little town.
[00:22:24] Carl Garrett: Well, the housing market was collapsing.
[00:22:25] Nick Beyer: Right. And so that's what I want to talk about. Yeah. I wanna talk about, you open your doors October, 2008. When does the recession hit and what does that look like for your business? You spent all the money you have, what does that look like? Right.
[00:22:37] Carl Garrett: Well I think I was a little shielded of that because my partner is a very sa savvy business guy and, and his partner was a guy named, I'm not just trying to name Drop, was a guy named Mort Myerson who worked for Ross Perot.
You know some, I tell you that 'cause they know what they're talking about. There's they're savvy investors. And he told me, he said, Carl. I told him, I said, we're, I'm gonna give you, I think we gave him [00:23:00] like a little over two months notice just to make sure everything was in order. And he said, Carl, this is the worst mistake you're ever making.
You're gonna go to some little hodunk town in Arkansas. Uh, and it didn't dawn on me that Walmart was a significant component. I didn't even grasp that. I just, I just saw it for what it is as a charming, neighboring place. But he said, you know, you're making a big mistake. This is the worst economy I've ever seen.
And that's what he told me. That's where, but it didn't land on me, you know? And, uh, I didn't realize that, that the economy was going, see Seattle was in a bubble. So you didn't really feel it as much, uh, as you would in certain areas of the country. You know, your Cincinnati's and Kansas cities, those are all close to home.
Walmart seemed to have its, you know, its, its its strength naturally, but a lot of builders are out of business. Mm-hmm. As a matter of fact, that's how we're able to build that place so quickly. 'cause so many builders didn't [00:24:00] have any work. Wow. And they came to us. And so it was very affordable. I mean, you're talking 18, $20 an hour, general contractors, wow.
Wow. That was beautiful. We'll ever see that again. But, you know, um, but yeah, I mean, um, yeah, we had everything on the line and, uh, yeah. So matter of fact, people would come in while we're building it out, looking around, and they would say, um, what are you doing here? And they say, we're doing a restaurant.
Are you gonna have a bar? And we thought, well, it's a dry county. I don't know if you guys like bars here. No, no. You need to have a bar. And then I would get the opposite. You know, I would get some staunch church type cats coming in. You can't have a, we don't want no that alcohol here and any of that stuff.
Right. So I thought to my wife and I said, well, hey, maybe we don't do a bar less headache for us and if this, this is what the public wants. But after about the 700th person to come in and ask us for a bar, we thought we better do a bar. So it was a [00:25:00] dry county and we had to have approval from the mayor.
The Bentonville police chief, the county prosecutor, and the county sheriff all had to sign off for us to have a, uh, a dry county liquor license. Wow. And every single one of 'em, as much as some of them didn't want it, let us have it.
[00:25:19] Nick Beyer: Wow. Wow. So 2000 au open economy's a little shaky, but sounds like it's fairly insulated here.
When do you feel like the business. Kind of starts to pick up, you start to feel some momentum. Maybe the town starts growing a little bit. When Yeah. When in your head for you, is that timeframe?
[00:25:36] Carl Garrett: I think the first two years, if you look on my income statement, uh, it was zero income. I, I don't even know how we did it.
But, uh, and then, then of course, you know, we had, we had negative amounts on, on our tax returns, but I would say that 2010 ish, you know, as Crystal Bridges was starting to catch [00:26:00] mm-hmm. Catch some momentum, I didn't really put any stock. Somebody told me, said, oh, you must have came here for Crystal Bridges.
Well, I was two blocks away from the Seattle Art Museum. Yeah. I think maybe 1% of those guys were my guests that would come in, not even one 10th of 1%. So I, I didn't think much of the art museum, you know, but turned out to be a pretty good deal. So after 2011. I think it really started, started to go, 'cause then we had a lot of visitors coming to Crystal Bridges.
We had parking in those days. You know, you can park anywhere on a square. But, uh, we can probably address that other issue later. But, you know, uh, but then I, I would say 2011, 2012, 2013 became heydays for us. It was good. It allowed us to do tabla. Yeah, I was gonna say,
[00:26:44] Cameron Clark: you opened up tabla in 11, right? Yes, sir.
Yep. Um, and then what, what was the. What was the inspiration for that and when, what, what queued you to
[00:26:54] Carl Garrett: Well, you know, we always wanted, I wanted, I was gonna do an Italian restaurant in Seattle and so, but [00:27:00] all the deals fell through, you know? Mm-hmm. We get really close and deal would fall apart. And so I guess we're not doing an Italian restaurant.
My partner was trying, but, you know, we just couldn't get the right deal. Um, and then one day we had a guy who would come, he's a local business man here. Um, matter of fact, he used to own this restaurant right here. You know, I won't mention his name right now, but, um, but good guy, good man. And he would come into our restaurant and probably eat five to six times, maybe five times at, uh, a week at lunch, and maybe three times for dinner.
So that's eight times a week he'd be in our restaurant.
[00:27:34] Cameron Clark: Oh my gosh.
[00:27:35] Carl Garrett: And I told my wife, I said, either. He's like a government agent or, or he's spying us out or just, he just really likes our food. I don't think he could, I mean, I mean, I'm not trying to discredit us. I think we got great food, but come on, eight times a week.
So finally he calls us over, you know, we got to know him a little bit and he calls my wife and I, we sit down with him and he says, Hey, I have [00:28:00] this, uh, property. Behind me and I wanna build a building there, but I like to have a restaurant there and I wonder if you would be interested. And he gave us a really good deal to do it.
Mm-hmm. And that's where Avila came in at. And so we've been there since 2011. So, you know.
[00:28:17] Nick Beyer: And what same setup downstairs, upstairs? The, the rooms upstairs. Was that from Inception or? We had, we
[00:28:22] Carl Garrett: had, no, it was, it was the, mainly the, the first floor. Okay. With a little, if, if you recall, when you go up the stairs, there's a room to the right.
Mm-hmm. It was that one little room that we could have for private. The other one he leased out to a, a, like a software company or something like that. And then that came up and then we took a risk. We thought, well, we gotta have private dining. We need, that was the best move. One of the best moves we made besides Table Mesa is to acquire that room.
Mm. And so now we got the whole building. Yeah. You know, and that's, that's been a. Matter of fact, Avila, and it took two years. It was like, you know, in a negative for two years after the [00:29:00] third year it started making traction and TLA has been probably outperforming Table Mesa as far as our two, two, uh, bookends on the square.
Mm-hmm. So it's awesome.
[00:29:12] Nick Beyer: And so you, you kind of take your, your profits from Table Mesa and you roll it into Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm just trying to get that picture for people who are like, you know, if you're in the restaurant world and your goal is to grow, how, how are you doing that? And it sounds like you did it fairly responsibly, and I know the economy's different now and things are different, but yeah, just your approach to that I think is important for people to understand.
Yeah. That, that's
[00:29:34] Carl Garrett: all we knew to do. You know, you hear about certain investment, um, strategies, but that was the stay outta debt is our best, is our number one strategy. Mm-hmm. And so to your point, that's exactly what we did.
[00:29:49] Nick Beyer: Cool. So yeah, talk, talk a little bit more about Avila and like kind of open that.
When did that start to really feel like it's picking up, you know? Mm-hmm. It [00:30:00] feels like between Table Masons and Avila, there was a, a good stretch before the next concept came. Yes. Which I think was Mirabella, is that correct?
[00:30:08] Carl Garrett: Yes. Yes.
[00:30:08] Nick Beyer: So kind of talk about that stretch, you know, between 2008 to kind of 2018, that's 10 years.
Sure. You know, in that, in how those businesses are doing. Well,
[00:30:18] Carl Garrett: there's a, there's a couple of stumbles on, on the way Yeah. To Mirabella, um, tabla, you know, is who doesn't like good Italian food and a good wine list? Mm. I mean, it's just, it's just a great marriage, you know, with pastas and pizzas and things like that.
But I got a little cocky. Truth be told is that we have, people would call us up and, and in shopping centers, we had people from Dallas and all over, and a local doctor, uh, contacted us to do something in Joplin, Missouri. And this was right after their tornado. I wanna say, wasn't it a tornado 2011 or 2012, something like that.
Yeah. Somewhere around there in high school. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought, you know, this, this doctor [00:31:00] calls me and says, I got this great warehouse and my practice is, is above, it's on Main Street in, in Joplin, and I sure would like to have you do a restaurant out there. My wife and I talked to, I said, wow, we can just grow into a big chain, you know, and, uh, took the wrong business approach, you know?
Uh, and when I say the wrong business approach, I mean, you get a little. A little arrogant, you know, and you think that that's gonna work well, it'll, you'll no problem. Matter of fact, they'll, after the tornado, they're gonna welcome us. They're gonna need a really good restaurant up there. And we get up there and, uh, uh, phenomenal building.
But, um, wrong market for us. Wrong market. And we just, we tried and we tried, but the deal I made is, is that I'll take the kitchen equipment, and I won't give you a personal guarantee because we're just f. Thank goodness I had enough sense to do that. Mm. If I would've signed my life away on it, I'd still be paying for it [00:32:00] to this day.
Mm. But I said, I'm not gonna take that risk, but I will go up there. I shouldn't even took the risk, regardless if he was gonna give it to me for free. It was a bad decision. Did it in in Fayetteville too, at the um, oh, what is that? Legacy building? Legacy building, yeah. You know, I did that too. Gate screaming deal.
Wasn't gonna guarantee it. Just take the kitchen equipment. Now, Fayetteville though was more interesting because you thought you'd made a brilliant decision from September to May, right? I mean, it was rocking and rolling after May. You could shoot a cannon off in a place not hitting anybody. I mean that it was just devastated.
What year? What year was that? I wanna say it's 2013.
[00:32:37] Cameron Clark: Okay. Okay.
[00:32:38] Carl Garrett: Okay. So we had some wounds that we had to go home. Me and bandage Shep before we got into 2017 with Maribel's table and even Maribel's table. And here's the thing, you gotta be careful about when people tell you. This is a great location, you'll kill it.
Be careful of those words, you know? 'cause more likely you probably [00:33:00] won't, you know? Now how do you know, how do you know that it's gonna be the perfect location? You don't, matter of fact, I know people that, um, and I won't mention the big corporation's name, but they would bring a, uh, one of those, uh. Uh, I don't, I don't know if he's, uh, some sort of a Buddhist priest or something and would pray over the real estate to make sure that was the right deal.
And this is a big, huge, publicly held company. Now, I don't think they do that anymore. I, I don't think they can do that, but that's how weird it can be looking for a location. So now my, I I just, I'm just gonna be very transparent. We pray about these locations. Hmm. And if that's the right place we're gonna be then that's what we do.
I mean, you can't beat that. See, we don't know what the future is.
[00:33:54] Nick Beyer: Hmm.
[00:33:54] Carl Garrett: You know, and if you, if you, if you were, uh, had a GPS [00:34:00] look at this, but not just, uh, miles, uh, high in the sky, you gotta know what's gonna happen 10 years down the road.
[00:34:07] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[00:34:07] Carl Garrett: And we don't know that, you know, so, so that's kind of, you know, but you never know about the location regardless of how many commercial real estate guys 'cause Maribel's table struggled.
Struggled for about two and a half years.
[00:34:21] Cameron Clark: Well, and so before we kind of really go into that Yes. Talk that, that more in that seven year period, 2011, the 2018, what would you tell someone who's taken some, taken some Ls, taken some losses, or what feels like, Hey, we've, this one hurt. This one hurt. You took, you decided to take another risk.
Kind of. Yeah. Go. Going on. Yeah. What would you tell that person who's maybe in that season right there, um, that, that you went during that time? Oh, okay. Time. Great. That
[00:34:46] Carl Garrett: great question. Well, I just don't want tell myself don't, don't discount, don't, don't cheapen what you do. Don't, um, start cutting costs and get so wrapped up into cutting to you.
Cut [00:35:00] yourself out of business. Focus on the top line. The bottom line is what it's going to be. Focus on one guest, one table at a time. Go back to basic fundamentals. I, I like to call it Vince Lombardi football. You may remember some of his, the story of Vince Lombardi. He took over the Green Bay Packers and the first thing he did, he took out a football.
He says, gentlemen, this is a football. And it's like that. You gotta go, Carl. These are guests. These are people. They work hard for their money, value their money, value their time. Uh, let 'em have a great experience. Go out of your way. Figure out how to be a servant again. Hmm. Be a servant. It, it's, you know, its power in serving.
Power in humility. There's no power in, uh, people serving you. Don't, I think we all feel a little weird when people give us all the gifts sometimes, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then don't we feel a little better when we give the gifts out? It's just, it's just a [00:36:00] natural thing. And that's just how it is. You just have to give, give and give and give your way out of it, you know?
And, uh, but I mean, giving your time, giving your, your, you know, everything you have to put into it. Restaurants require a lot of time. Mm-hmm. And people will tell you, you know, I'll tell people, you know, I always wanna know what you do for a living. What do you do for a living? You say in the restaurant, first thing they always say, that's hard work.
Oh, I don't know how you do that. I think everything's, anybody's gonna have success. Works hard, right. Puts in the hours. I remember my daughter told me, dad, um, I gotta, I need to spend more time with my kids. So I got, I'm gonna be a mortgage banker now instead of, um, she was in some sort of part of other, part of real estate, but she'd take her lap.
She now, the office opened at nine and the office closed at five. But the work didn't stop. So she soon realized if she's gonna make that type of income, that what she was used to, she had to work till three o'clock in the morning.
[00:36:57] Nick Beyer: Mm.
[00:36:58] Carl Garrett: Yeah. Get deals [00:37:00] done. 'cause people were, some people were in other nations, you know, their time zones are different.
And, and, and so lawyers, I mean, we, a friend of ours is A-O-B-G-Y-N. I mean, I don't know how the guy sleeps every time I see he's got really dark circles and, but he makes a good living. But, you know, uh, I had a preacher one time tell me, he says, Hey, can you tell some of those people that are working for you that they need to go to church on Sunday?
You can't work 'em on Sunday like that. And I said, well, who, who's gonna serve all your folks when you get outta church, when you go to brunch? Think about that one. Did he, you know, so, you know, yeah. We, we all have family responsibilities, but we can still be with our families and put in the quality time.
We can put down the phone. We don't have to watch the tv. We can read to our kids. We can spend that quality time. And after a while they say, dad, dad, gimme some space. You know? Yeah. I'm good. You
[00:37:54] Nick Beyer: know, you know. So go, go a little deeper on those wounds. So for people who are unfamiliar, you, you [00:38:00] try, you try to spot in Joplin, you try to spot in, uh, Fayetteville,
[00:38:04] Carl Garrett: I got, I'll give you one more.
Yeah. Since, since we're, we're, we're, we're letting it all out here. Yeah. In Conway. So we did, we did three. Okay. Uh, all out of the wrong motive. All to be, grow
[00:38:16] Nick Beyer: and be a big chain. And were those copy paste of current restaurants that you had? Open Table Mesa.
[00:38:23] Carl Garrett: Okay. We thought Table Mesa was the deal. Come to realize that Table Mesa's only at this point in time in our, in our life, it's only meant to be on the square.
It's not supposed to go to Dallas. It's not supposed to go to Little Rock. Definitely not supposed to go to those other places I told you about. So, um, so what do you, what do you, I'm sorry, your question is what do you do during this interim? Or Yeah, I
[00:38:47] Nick Beyer: mean, what do, what do those look like? You know, you've got some profit now.
Rolling. You're putting those in these other ventures. Okay. They're not working out. So just kind of talk, talk to someone who's going through that [00:39:00] or maybe Yeah. Could go through that. You know, just get out,
[00:39:04] Carl Garrett: go to your landlord or whoever and say, hey. I made a mistake, this is not working. Work out something for 'em.
You know, listen, in Conway, I had to pay six months of rent because, you know, but don't, don't get sideways with them. You know, keep that because you never know those, they're gonna need you and you're gonna need them one day, you know? Mm-hmm. So try to mitigate it along with them. I, I mean, I tried three or four different, helping to find different tenants and I did that in Joplin and uh, and I did that in Conway and, but Fayetteville's a little different.
They wanted me out 'cause they found some guy from, uh, where, what's the University of Mississippi is at Oxford or something? Yeah, Oxford. Oxford, yeah. So he comes over and he wants to do a, a same type of restaurant that he had in Oxford and he's in Fayetteville. So kind of the same type of, and they want, so they gave me money to get out, say, please get out 'cause I can [00:40:00] get more rent out this guy.
So that was cool. That worked out good. The other two, I had to humble myself. I said, Hey. I screwed up. And that's the best way to do. It's just don't go and get your lawyer. Uh, that's the worst thing you can do. Just go there, man to man or man to woman or whatever, and just say, Hey, this is my, my situation.
If they have any type of integrity, they'll work with you. Mm.
[00:40:25] Nick Beyer: You
[00:40:25] Carl Garrett: know, they'll, they'll, they'll help you through that process. 'cause they, they don't want, you know, put yourself in their shoes, you know? Now they got an empty building and you were there. So, but you gotta let 'em say, Hey, this is just, man, I, this is, I'm, I'm, I'm getting beat up here financially.
I can't continue to go this. What can we do to work this out? And I think in most cases, you know, and if you're in a big shopping center. You're a pinnacle or whatever it is, promenade. I don't know how that would go. Uh, typically, I, I personally stay out of those places, you know? Mm-hmm. [00:41:00] Unless they're just willing to give me a phenomenal deal.
It, it'd be dumb not to take it. But typically I work with smaller people and that I can have a relationship with, and I, I, I try to be real and say like this, we could have a, a downturn on the economy. What are we gonna do? Get all the gory, ugly stuff out when you're negotiating your lease, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, it, it, it, we like to think we're in a perfect, everything's sunny and rosy, and then all of a sudden we get a nine 11, or you get a 2008 housing market, or who knows COVID.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Who would've thought that? I don't even know how we got out of COVID.
[00:41:34] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:35] Carl Garrett: We had, we, and I'm jumping ahead probably, but 10 10. We lived on 10% of our income
[00:41:41] Nick Beyer: Wow.
[00:41:42] Carl Garrett: And paid the same bills.
[00:41:45] Nick Beyer: Labor was a little less, but yeah. That's crazy. So, so talk about, um, yeah. In those, in those moments, how, how soon did it take you to figure out this isn't working?
[00:41:58] Carl Garrett: How soon did you know? Oh, it didn't, it didn't [00:42:00] take long. I think it took about six months. Okay. You know, you know, it's like when you buying something, you know, if you don't trust your inner self, 'cause I knew Conway was not gonna be good, and I knew John Poin was not gonna be good. I convinced myself it would be good.
Now that's bad if you gotta convince yourself that that's the right deal. You, you need counseling.
[00:42:24] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:25] Carl Garrett: Yeah. You know, go to, go to, go to some advisors, spiritual advisors, business advisors, somebody who's got some better common sense than you, but, but don't do it. Um, unless you just feel like, oh, I, I'm excited about doing that.
I can't wait to do that. Mm-hmm. Don't do it because we can make more money. That's why we did it.
[00:42:48] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[00:42:48] Carl Garrett: That's why Joplin came. Well, we can make more money. We can come big chain. We can be a big deal. You know? So
[00:42:55] Nick Beyer: that's good. So you get through that tough period. Sounds like you learn a lot from those, those [00:43:00] mistakes.
Oh yeah. Yeah. We did 2017. You open up Mira Bella's table. Talk about what Pinnacle was like back then. Seems like you're kind of right on the places you're opening are right on the cusp of. When things are starting to accelerate there. Yeah. So, so talk about what it was like when y'all opened. You said it was a bumpy, maybe bumpy start to open.
Yes. Talk a little bit about that.
[00:43:21] Carl Garrett: Well, you see, you have to take, you know, not being a chain since I've learned, don't be a chain, be different, uh, do different con concepts, if you will, if you wanna call it that. Uh, you brand differently. So people don't, didn't get maribel's. They thought maybe it's a woman's clothing store or who knows what, you know.
Um, and so we had to work the fundamental part to get people back in there. And then pinnacle. I mean, he had chewy's crushing it across the street from us. Um, and then restaurants started coming on and piling up. It was a big pile on game. So [00:44:00] then you had to fight your way through that. And it's still kind of going through that right now.
A lot of restaurants coming out there. And so, but you can't worry about those guys. See, we all get anxiety when someone else comes along. They wanna do something similar. I mean, table mesa, it, it annoyed me, you know, when the other taco place opened up, it just annoyed me. Mm. And then you had a, a tequila Mexican joint.
That annoyed me, but I forgot the reason why I was here. See you, you, those are distractions. So you know, when all the other restaurants are popular around Maribel's, we just had a focus within our four walls. And even though they didn't know what kind of concept we were or what we were about, we just had to do it the old fashioned way.
You know, you could do social media and go, come on out and show 'em great pictures. And they come out there and they look at the play, go, that's not the same picture. That's, you know, and then they leave. Forget about that. Focus on your four walls. Marketing what you do with those guests. Let the word [00:45:00] of mouth go back to the old fashioned way.
That's the way I like to do it. I prefer it that way. Word of mouth. That's the best advertising. It'll never fail. Someone has a
[00:45:08] Cameron Clark: good
[00:45:08] Carl Garrett: experience. They're gonna tell their friend. Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, they like to tell when it's more. They, there's a, there's a tendency to tell you about the negative before the positive.
I guess that's human nature. But, but they, but the good stuff does get out. Permeates eventually, and that's how Mirabella came to be. And now I think we're like, and then this is not trying to blow a trumpet, but I think people really recognize this as, as a good brunch spot, you know? And, and we just had to figure out, I'll tell you what, the, the, the, the deciding factor on Mirabella was Thanksgiving.
Our sales were so mediocre at Maribel's table. How do people are gonna know about us? And it dawned on me that open up for Thanksgiving because hardly you got a handful of restaurants in the whole state that are open for Thanksgiving. We opened for Thanksgiving, brought in a bunch of people, they didn't know what we were.
[00:46:00] And fortunately we, we executed, you know, pretty good and it, and now we're Thanksgiving. Oh wow. That's the place to go.
[00:46:08] Cameron Clark: Wow.
[00:46:09] Carl Garrett: Thanksgiving is a big deal at Maribel's table. Take home boxes. We do more, we do more take home boxes than we do in sales with guests coming in for Thanksgiving. Wow. So that was the catalyst that changed the whole deal.
You gotta find that one day. I don't care if you have to open up for Christmas, heaven forbid, but you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. But find that day, you know, Mexican restaurants like doing Cinco de Mayo. You know, now everybody wants to do sink in a mile. You, whether you're Mexican or red, you know, but find something that works.
Mm-hmm. What, what are the Irish places? St. St. Patty's Day. Yeah. Yeah. March 17th or something like that. So, you know, you know, those are nice to have, but if you don't have any of that, if you're not that type of concept, well I'm not on an Irish pub and I'm not a Mexican joint and so what works
[00:46:56] Nick Beyer: for me? Yeah.
So talk a little bit more about the Maribel's table concept. [00:47:00] Yeah. 'cause we've, you talked about table mesa, a little bit of the Latin kind of Yes. Cuisine. Then you got to vault tabla and that's mm-hmm. You know, the Italian talk. Talk a little bit about Maribel's table. So,
[00:47:10] Carl Garrett: Mari Maribel is, uh, if you ever, I was inspired, you know, we get inspired by other people.
I like to say, I think of the, I'm the original. No, I'm not. I borrow, I borrow stuff just like everybody else does. Mm-hmm. I mean, I don't know anybody who has an original idea. Somebody does. Maybe 5,000 years ago, maybe somebody had the original, you know, whatever restaurant concept maybe. But, you know, but Mirab, Bellas was inspired by Italy in New York.
Mm-hmm. We just happened to my, my, uh, my wife's from South Africa. Her brother was coming in town, so we met him. He flew into, uh, New York. We met him there and we wanted to find a place. And we stumbled into Italy. And Italy is this beautiful big market. You've probably been, have you been as a big market Cool, cool, cool spot.
I thought, man, this is nice. Wouldn't that be nice to be able to do something like that? I don't know how they make money. That place. I mean, good Lord, I just, I don't know how they do it, but they do. [00:48:00] And uh, so I think if we could do a baby version of that. And so it kind of started that way, but it just kind of evolved into its own thing, you know?
So it's not like evilly at all. You're gonna, like, you're trying to compare the two, but know, you can see that distinguished difference, but that w that's kind of inspired us to be like a market. So, you know, you walk in, you got the display mm-hmm. Uh, with merchandise in there and we do fresh baked stuff and cakes and pies and, and, and do that sort of thing.
So we, we like that. I'm a sweet tooth. So I, I say get a some cake. I'm a sucker for a donut or a cake or something. So that's all me. I love coffee, I love bread. I can live. Personally in a bakery that makes fresh bread and coffee. Mm-hmm. I mean, find a booth or a little, uh, that could be my house, you know?
Um, if I wasn't married, that's where I'd be, but, you know, um, so that, those are those components of bakery, fresh baked stuff, good coffee, nice Italian food. Um, and then anything else [00:49:00] whimsical we can do? Hmm. Now I, I'll say this in case anybody has a question. They say, who's that girl you got? That's my daughter.
There's a little, uh, not a little, pretty big picture. I'm not, I'm, I'm a, you might think, well, that's a proud. Arrogant Dad put his picture of his daughter up there that, I'll tell you how that happened if since, I'll throw that in there real quick, is that, um, the, the architect said, let's, you, you got a mural, you what you need is a beautiful girl running through the field or something like that.
And, uh, I said, uh, I don't, I don't think so. And then one of my staff members says, well, nothing better than a child. Once you get a child like your kid or something. I go, what? You know, who wants to put their, and I started, I started thinking about it. I said, that might not be too bad. Everybody likes kids, you know?
Yeah. So we found one where she's, where my daughter's making pizza with the chef. Mm-hmm. We thought, man, that's gonna work. So we stuck that up there. That worked out pretty good and then evolved. And now we do the, I think the, what is it? The Morton Salt Girl [00:50:00] look. So that's up there. And now we're getting ready to change over to, uh, Tiffany, so you'll Yeah.
Give you a heads, heads up on that one. So, but that's why that's up there for whatever. So.
[00:50:09] Cameron Clark: Anyway. Well, on it's phone, I wanna make sure everyone kinda has a perspective here. So, so that's, it feels like after Miller Maribel's is like, when the velocity really starts, like mm-hmm. You, it's almost like a restaurant a year after that.
Yeah. And we wanna kind of get, get into that, but that's 10 years in to Yeah. To doing this. It's like 10 years of, of grinding it out, making mistakes, doing some, doing things right. Maybe even getting lucky with how the market's forming. We're all in northwest Arkansas. Mm-hmm. Call it lucky. Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, we, I mean, on your end, did it feel like, okay, okay, now we know who we are, we really know who we are.
Like kids keep mm-hmm. All gas, gas on the, on the pedal or what was the, what was the feeling then after you knew Maribel's was working
[00:50:55] Carl Garrett: well? Uh, so after Maribel's, [00:51:00] um, 2019, feeling pretty good, 2020 comes around and the bottom falls outta everything. Now I thought. In my little prayer time, I said, well, I guess this is the end of the road.
I've been doing this a long time and I'm already pushing 40 years in the business, so I guess this is the end of the road for me.
[00:51:18] Cameron Clark: Yeah.
[00:51:18] Carl Garrett: You know, I mean, sometimes we come to that realization, but it wasn't on the on on. It just seemed to be like, Nope, you need to get in there and get after it and start fighting and be compete with the grocery stores.
'cause that's who your competitor is. Not other restaurants. You gotta get out there with the grocery stores. But what you have over the grocery stores, you have really good prepared food. Mm. You know, and you guys know what you're doing. Right. So we are blowing a Trump a little bit. So, so we did these really nice takeout meals mm-hmm.
That, that saved us, you know, we had, uh, 20% of our business then became takeout. Mm. You know, pretty usually 5% is pretty significant. 20% [00:52:00] it's off the chart. But everybody had to do that anyway, you know? And then, and we got a little bit, you know, truth, you know, we, we told, yeah, we, everybody got any business had what they call the PPP deal.
Yeah. And, but, but you had to pay that back if you didn't have the labor. Well, we had a lot of labor, so thank goodness that we had this big payroll that we were able to get forgiven on that, that stuff. But it didn't pay for cost of goods or anything like that. You could, you could, you could use it on rent, you could use it on, I think it was utilities and, and your payroll.
That was it. All the other stuff couldn't use it, you know, so you had to get creative in how, how are you gonna, how are you gonna make it? Whole operation changed. The whole, uh, strategy of service changed the, we lost all of our seasoned employees every season's. Just about every one of 'em left us. Wow. You know, uh, for a variety of reasons.
You know, people were scared to death. They, they didn't wanna bring COVID home to their elderly parents or so, I mean, just all kinds of stuff. But everybody was freaked out for that [00:53:00] first month or two. Right. Hmm. Uh, and then, um, then it just kind of went down. Fortunately, I'm glad we're in Arkansas. I think if I were in Seattle, a matter of fact, I know if I were in Seattle, I wouldn't be talking to you at this table.
So, um, fortunately we're here and, um, and then things just got better and then it just ramped up. And then we, and of course, you know, during that time, uh, we, I failed to mention Table on six, 'cause we bought that in 2019. And then COVID comes. So is that
[00:53:30] Nick Beyer: pre pre COVID, right? Yeah, I mean, like, just,
[00:53:32] Carl Garrett: just a year before COVID.
Okay.
[00:53:34] Nick Beyer: And is that your first time acquiring a restaurant? That's
[00:53:36] Carl Garrett: correct. So that's my first time buying property in Bentonville, Arkansas. Okay. So that was our first time being a developer and improving sidewalks and buying certain trees, learning all, learning all that stuff. Right. You know how that goes.
So in buying a park bench that was, you know, uh, 15 times more than what you would like to spend on a park bench. But yeah, that, that was our first experience doing that [00:54:00] and annexing our, our land to the, to the city too. We didn't like that, you know, and paying for certain parts of the driveway and roads and giving that up and Yeah.
But didn't like that. Yeah. But that's what you gotta do, right? If you're gonna, you're gonna play the game,
[00:54:16] Nick Beyer: right? Yeah. So you own the building. Yeah. And it was the station cafe That was the name of it. Yeah.
[00:54:24] Carl Garrett: So the Cecil. Interesting enough. Mm-hmm. The guy that we met in 2008 when we were opening Table Mesa, he had the station cafe on the square.
I guess after a while, I don't know what all the details were, but he, he, he got outta business and, uh, a guy through, uh, his name was Todd. Uh, had a, has a company called Lamplighter. He's a developer, uh, in around our neighborhood where Table on six is. And he said, well, hey, let's do a burger spot. And that's what they did.
And um, I would ride my bike by and I'd see people sitting out in the patio. I said, man, that sure is a cool [00:55:00] spot. Then he was selling his house. He had this beautiful house where Better Homes and Gardens is. Yep, right on. Was that D Street or six? I think it's six. And he had that for sale. So I entertained that.
But something in me said, well, you don't, don't buy that. By his, by his bur, by his little house there. And I said, yeah, but it's not for sale. I thought, you know, who am I talking to? And he, some people might think I need psychiatric help, but I was, I was talking to somebody much smarter than me make a offer on that.
So I called him and, and left it on his, on their voicemail or something. And I think Ty if, um, Todd could probably speak to this better, but I think his wife mentioned, you need to go talk to Carl about selling this place. 'cause they didn't wanna be in the restaurant business. So he came in at Table Mesa, at the bakery and we made a deal and we bought it and uh, and we bought the land next to it because we had to have a parking lot.
Yeah. So it was a very significant financial undertaking to do. But, uh, it, it worked out, you know, and trying to figure out how to get a restaurant in a [00:56:00] 1500 square foot house. Same, same stuff, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dealing with that. So remodel and, you know, hundreds of thousand dollars later. You know, here we are.
But it turned out to be a really good move. And now, but my only way to grow is up. Mm. So we could go four stories up if we can figure out how to, how to do that, you know?
[00:56:19] Nick Beyer: Yeah. Well that's, that's our personal favorite. Uh, we love the steak salad. And, uh, thank you. The san the steak sandwich I think is one of our
[00:56:27] Carl Garrett: favorites too, so, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. The, the, um, uh, uptown, BLT Yeah, I think it is. So it has tenderloin and bacon. Mm-hmm. And the jama that's my favorite too. So,
[00:56:36] Nick Beyer: but the patio out there, I, I just think that that restaurant is so unique, the neighborhood feel of it. And Cameron and I were talking about that, prepping for this, just, it seems like all of your spots are very neighborhood.
They just have a, a certain feeling of walking, biking, run. They just feel homey and yeah, I think that's a very interesting, I don't know if how intentional that was [00:57:00] or, or, um, if that's just kind of part of your brand identity at this point, but I think,
[00:57:04] Carl Garrett: I think some things just go without you trying to do it.
Mm-hmm. It just evolves that way, you know? Um, I, I, I can't say, yeah, I could see it being a nice neighborhood factor, but I, I, I didn't look at it like, well, that's what that's going to be. Mm-hmm. It just, just turned out to be that way. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Can you, is it, you want me to
[00:57:28] Cameron Clark: start with you guys? It's good.
It's great. Okay. Well, you know, now we're sitting at table in the Hickory Inn. Like, tell us, I mean, tell us about, so from. You kind of gave us a little snippet on COVID tough time. And then when did you know the, the idea for this place come into, um, the picture and like, I mean, you kind of told us before we started here, like it it was, it was a long negotiation process.
Yeah, it was a very long, I
[00:57:56] Carl Garrett: think we talked for about five years, like I'd mentioned to you [00:58:00] and I was on again, on again off, you know, that sort of deal. Um, I wasn't sure if it was gonna be for us or not, but then an, a strong impression said, yeah, let's, let's go for this, you know? Um, because the owner wanted to sell it to us and he, he, he approached us a few different times.
I think he probably was talking to a few other people. He's, you know, he'll, he'll entertain, you know, some, some whatever, the best offer obviously. And um, but you know, we looked at him, we thought, well, north Bentonville is going to evolve. It's going to change. Uh, and things will go this way, like they're headed to Bella Vista.
So, um, and just the property's nice in that little cabin and, you know, and it has so much potential. Mm. And I don't think we've seen anything yet, what this place can do. So we're yet to see what, what's gonna evolve outta here. We're gonna do our best and try to do a little bit of remodeling, but we're gonna try to just stay true [00:59:00] to our cuisine and try to just to get better at it, you know?
And, and, uh, but we, we love the property out here.
[00:59:08] Cameron Clark: And if someone hasn't been here before, give us a sn bit of like, what is the, the, you know, the, the, the feel of this restaurant.
[00:59:15] Carl Garrett: You know, this feel would remind somebody if, especially if you're from, um, probably the northern parts of the country, um, some of those old steakhouses.
Um, in the seventies, you know, just a lot of old world charm to it. Mm-hmm. Uh, waitresses with name tags dressed up with a tie and a vest. Mm-hmm. Um. You know, um, it might get noisy here, but, um, that, um, that's kind of what, um, that's what reminds me of, yeah, this look and feel a good steak steaks, chops good fish, um, and warm, engaging service and bringing it back [01:00:00] from, you know, a, a period where, you know, hospitality was.
Was really essential. Mm. You know, and that's, that's what, you know, table at the Hickory Inn, that old place and the little fireplace going on. And, um, sometimes, you know, you have staff. It's one of those places if you've been, where you see the waiters been there for 40 years. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, we're trying to get there, you know, so we got we to go.
We, we got ways to go to get there, but that, that's what we want to be. And that's different from our other restaurants. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Um,
[01:00:34] Nick Beyer: so, so more elevated experience, more old school.
[01:00:37] Carl Garrett: Yes.
[01:00:38] Nick Beyer: Uh, y'all are open for lunch. Mm-hmm. Dinner. Dinner. Yeah. Di
[01:00:42] Carl Garrett: dinner is, is is the thing here. Okay. But we, we, we, we do, we keep the doors open for lunch just to be inviting, you know, to, to our, to our guests, you know, so, yeah.
[01:00:53] Nick Beyer: And my wife and I have been in the foods Amazing. And the, the charm of this property, like you said, it, there's not many like [01:01:00] it in northwest Arkansas. No. And we, we were talking, I was reading online. Rumored to be one of Sam Walton's favorite spots to eat in his brother, bud Walton used to come here That too.
Every, every Friday too. Yeah, we heard that too, was the rumor. We haven't
[01:01:14] Carl Garrett: seen Sam, or, but yeah, only in spirit here, you know, but I, I'm sure you know, some of the family members have probably come in. We, we wouldn't know, you know. Um, but, um, but yeah, I think when you look at this property, you can't find anything like it.
Mm-hmm. I mean, it's, it's become a rare situation to find anything like that around here, the way the, the growth is going in Bentonville. Mm-hmm. So,
[01:01:38] Nick Beyer: so talk a little bit as a, as a restaurant group, you've opened, uh, three restaurants now, but then the next two are acquisitions and this one, and table on sixth.
What, what are your thoughts on that? You know, if, if there's another person in the restaurant world listening to this. [01:02:00] Would you recommend that? Do you like building it better from the ground up? I mean, it sounds like more of the acquisitions had to come from the property specifically rather than the actual restaurant, but I don't know, just talk a little bit about that.
I find that unique.
[01:02:14] Carl Garrett: Yeah. You know, we could have kept this spreads, but we didn't, so we made the acquisition, um, and we, we scrapped the name, we kept some of the memorabilia, but I was strongly led to let go of all of that and, uh, be who you are. And, um, and that's a risk that, that you have to take. Now. You can take over somebody's restaurant.
Never miss a beat. There's nothing wrong with that, that that's not a bad business decision, especially if it's, if it's, if, if the, uh, the sales volume is strong and, uh, the profitability and you happen to take it over, now that's gonna cost you more. Right. But if you take over something that's, uh, [01:03:00] pretty tired and it is weathered and it's slipping well, you can't hold on to that, that same concept.
Mm-hmm. That, that would be impractical. You'd, you'd go broke, you know? Yeah. So you need to make your, your, your personality change. You can still keep some of the roots, but you need, you need to put your own identity. Into it. So that, that's what I would recommend, depending on the circumstance. I've seen people, you know, some guys had a place for 50 years.
He's tired now. He and, and he wants to, to sell it and then Great. Yeah. And you, you move along and, and you, you buy it. Especially if it's beachfront property. Right. And you can't, you can't lose out here, you know, different ball game table on six. It was table of station. We couldn't run table at the station.
We couldn't sell. I think we're, what is he doing? 6 95 cheeseburgers? You can't, can't, yeah. You know, we, I'm not, not knocking that we wanna sell Wagyu beef. Why? Because we think it's a, not only is a, a good [01:04:00] quality product, but it has good marketing appeal. Mm-hmm. So, but you can't sell it for 6 95. That's what it costs.
So you gotta bump the prices up, you know? But one thing I'll, I'll just say this, that we believe in keeping the prices reasonable. 'cause we realize how hard everybody works for their money. Um, you know, to go for a 20, $25 cheeseburger, just because it's some sort of Kobe beef or something, uh, is totally contrary to our values.
Mm. Just not gonna do it. And we're not even, you won't, you won't find a 55, $60 steak at the Hickory Inn. Just not gonna do it. We'll buy a great product, but we're not gonna do that. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. And if that makes us to some, in some people's eyes, mediocre, then we're mediocre. But we're gonna give you a good value, you know, for what it is.
But I would, I would just try to make it my own. Back to your original question. You make it, make it my own if I could. That's good. Well
[01:04:55] Cameron Clark: talk about Bella Vista. Bella Vista was next. Yeah. Um, [01:05:00] where did that inspiration for, um, yeah, like why, why kind of move even further north? Um,
[01:05:07] Nick Beyer: yeah.
[01:05:07] Cameron Clark: How did the site come along?
Well,
[01:05:09] Carl Garrett: uh, we had the owner of the property came into Hickory in and asked for me, and I wasn't here. And he led his card. He came in a couple times. He was a pretty persistent guy. And, uh, I met him really, really nice guy. And, uh, he gave us, uh, a good deal out there. It was a restaurant called Duffers. I think a lot of folks in the Bella Vista neighborhood, remember Duffers, it was a little breakfast spot.
And it was, uh, but I, like, I thought, I thought the shopping center had a nice mature feel to it. Mm. It was wooded area, little shopping center out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. And you imagine Dr. Driving along, go ahead.
[01:05:47] Cameron Clark: In the middle of neighborhoods, like back to this Yeah, yeah, yeah. The middle of neighborhoods.
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You
[01:05:50] Carl Garrett: know, you're driving along, you see this little shopping center, you go, oh, that's interesting. And, and, uh, but with the way those neighborhoods, what you don't see behind the scenes, [01:06:00] that those people are buying lots up left and right. And that area's getting populated. And it's not just retirees, it's young families moving that area.
Mm-hmm. So I think in the next five, 10 years, you're really gonna see a shift. And we're already seeing it at Bella's table. So it's not just one demographic, it's a, it's a multitude of different demographics coming out. And, and then, so the, but when the, uh, owner of their property, uh, gave us a, a phenomenal rent deal.
And just to be out there for 10 years and with another 10 year option, we, we, we went for it. And so now we're in position, you know, for, for growth. And we've already had some good, good stuff, you know, happening over there. And then with the bakery next door too, it too, mm-hmm. We opened up the little bakery I thought was needed.
And so when you put both of them together, they make one really good, solid restaurant, you
[01:06:51] Nick Beyer: know? So. And how do you define that? How, how, when you say one solid restaurant, is that, is that a revenue goal? Is it just your ability to [01:07:00] service? Like what, what, what do you mean by that?
[01:07:02] Carl Garrett: Well, I think that, uh, certainly from a revenue perspective, yes.
Because when, when you combine the both of 'em together, 'cause they're, they're, they're 2200 square feet. Okay? So they're small. So you put 'em together and you got a 4,400 square foot restaurant, which is pretty typical, you know, and so, and so it's doing the, it's doing the volume of a, of a, probably a mid to high volume restaurant.
In middle of those neighborhoods out there. So it shows you the potential that it has. All we have to do now is figure out how to make money on it. So, and we're, we're in that phase, you know, you know, there's three phases to this business. You know, there's the entrepreneurial phase like we've been talking about, you know, you get in there and you're rocking and rolling and you got this great idea for stuff, and then you gotta go through an operational phase to where you gotta have systems and checklists and great recipes and refining all of that.
And then you gotta have a, we, we we're in now [01:08:00] the strategic phase. Yeah. So we've been through entrepreneurial. I think we'll always be in, in a sense, somewhat in entrepreneurial land. That's where we live. But, uh, but through operations now, strategy, now we're growing outside of the market. And growing. And that's our strategy is to, and we're in that strategic phase, so now we gotta bring on HR person and who knows more accountant type people, and we're kind of dealing with that sort of thing.
[01:08:30] Cameron Clark: Yeah. Talk, talk about the structure right now. You've got like, like in the, in the future of that, um, like of the restaurant group.
[01:08:38] Carl Garrett: Well, right now it's my wife and I still at the helm. Uh, and then we have a, a director of operations, uh, with a young lady, uh, with Whitney, who's been working for us since 2011.
I mean, what's, what's that? 13 years? Something like that. And then we have a, a culinary. Uh, uh, [01:09:00] um, overseer who's been with me for 10 years. And then we have Aina Smith, who's our, um, catering, uh, director. She's been with me for 10 plus years. Mm-hmm. So we have some good seasoned vets on our team. That's where we are.
And so we try to do as much work as we can until we have to really, till we just can't do it anymore, and then we have to hire somebody. Yeah. That's kind of how we roll, you know. So next is accountant type person to come on board. And pretty soon we use, we outsource some accounting and, and a little bit of HR here and there, but eventually we have to have it in-house.
Yeah. You know, so, and our, our, our biggest goal for a strategy is to develop our own proprietary POS system. So why I think it will allow us to, to manage our own bookkeeping and have everything into one. Where you can do your accounts payable, you can do your payroll. Um. [01:10:00] And then you receive all your financials and generate a good financial statement and help the tax man.
And even who knows if we can even, uh, do most of our, our tax reporting and pay our, you know, our, uh, we're already paying, uh, payroll taxes to the IRS through the system, but also through sales tax. We're doing that as well. Okay. So we need it, we we're looking to do an all in one right now. You gotta do with all these third parties mm-hmm.
With all these services.
[01:10:26] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[01:10:26] Carl Garrett: You know,
[01:10:26] Nick Beyer: it adds up. So it's more for backend stuff. It's not, it's not really like related to the operations of the restaurant inventory, stuff like that. Yeah. Is that
[01:10:34] Carl Garrett: okay?
[01:10:34] Nick Beyer: That's
[01:10:34] Carl Garrett: correct. Okay. Yep. Cool.
[01:10:37] Nick Beyer: So we've got Bella's table. That was 2024 and then kind of bring us up to right now, 2025.
[01:10:43] Carl Garrett: So right now we got a bit of agro growth spurt. We thought we were done growing for a little bit. You know, we hit whatever, whatever height we wanted to be, but all of a sudden, boom, we ate some Wheaties and now we're. Where we signed a deal, uh, in Johnson to do a one A table. Mm-hmm. Which we're really excited [01:11:00] about.
So it's gonna be a Florida style. I'm a native Floridian, got all my travels, but like, that's where I really, uh, my, my best fond memories are growing up in a sleepy beach town, being a surfer kid.
[01:11:11] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:11:12] Carl Garrett: So, so we're gonna do a one A table if you've probably been down a one A there's 30 a, a lot of people around this area, they all know about 30 A.
Yeah. Not many people know about. We're gonna try to introduce a one A to people. So coastal, uh, cuisine, lots of between red snapper and grouper and all kinds of wonderful fish, you know, from the gulf and from that region. So that's a one, a table, which I guess in your neck of the woods, Fayetteville, right?
Mm-hmm. Uh, and then we're, we're going to be at the Walmart, uh, home office in our new beautiful campus. Mm-hmm. Called table at the center. So we're gonna do a Euro bistro. They're called table, uh, all center or table at the center. And then we also sign something for a Avila. We call it Avila, FLA, or legal name is Avila, San Marco in the [01:12:00] San Marco area of Jacksonville, Florida.
So that's our first venture outside of the market. And so our, our goal is to, to support Tabla and Jacksonville by trying to open another restaurant or two there for, they have friends they, they can piggyback off of mm-hmm. And have some, so we're looking at one in Jacksonville Beach. And then, um, hopefully we can get into Atlantic Beach, but that's, you know, a little, uh, incestuous if you will over there.
So it's, it's a hard nut to crack, you know? Yeah, yeah.
[01:12:32] Nick Beyer: So, yeah, a lot of growth. Are those all 20, 26? Yeah. Kinda openings? Yeah. Okay.
[01:12:38] Carl Garrett: We were hoping the winter 2025 doesn't look like, so it'll be, so you got two restaurants, got all three opening in 2026. So we're gonna be busy. In 2026. And then we have one last concept called Table Mesa X, which is a fast food concept that we're developing with drive-through.
So a lot of interesting popular items with, with, uh, table [01:13:00] Mesa on there. And we might throw a few other concepts in there, but keep the menu pretty simple. Uh, but good, you know, favorites. Yeah. And there's some table, do you have a
[01:13:08] Nick Beyer: location for that, or that's just northwest Arkansas in general, or
[01:13:12] Carl Garrett: it's, it'll be northwest Arkansas when we kick that off.
Cool. You know.
[01:13:15] Nick Beyer: Cool. So, and that's kind of where the puck's headed, is that, is that your thought there? I mean, a lot of drive through, a lot of takeout, so yeah.
[01:13:23] Carl Garrett: I think that's gonna be an interesting segment to get into. Um, and I think that that's where we'll have a limited dine in. And we're also gonna do it where you just walk up.
Do it. You know that Chick-fil-A that you like over in Fayetteville, you can just, you have to walk up to and drive through them. I kinda like that, that
[01:13:41] Nick Beyer: gig, but we'll do a little bit of dine in. Yeah. Too. So, so I mean, I'm just trying to rack my brain around this. All your concepts are different and all different cuisine styles.
[01:13:54] Carl Garrett: Yes.
[01:13:56] Nick Beyer: A lot of different locations. Mm-hmm. Different. [01:14:00] I mean, DD you know, you have some neighborhood spots, you've got some big pla This is a big restaurant. Yeah. I don't know the square footage here. It's 8,000. Yeah, 8,000. So double the kind of normal size that you cited.
[01:14:10] Carl Garrett: Yeah.
[01:14:11] Nick Beyer: You just have a lot of complexities in your business and you still found a way to be really successful.
How have you navigated through those complexities, whether it's your team, things you've learned, whether it's been your failures, you talked about, just talk about what It's very complex business restaurant in general is, is a complex business. Then to add on top of it. Eight different concepts. Not, I mean, 10 really different concepts.
Yeah. Just talk a little bit about that.
[01:14:39] Carl Garrett: Well, I guess I don't look at it as complex, you know, when you're deep in the weeds of it, you don't look like you're in the weeds, or if you're in the forest, you don't think you're in the forest, you know? Um, well, what that is alarm. Yeah. But, um, we look at it as a challenge in a lot of ways, but, um, I think [01:15:00] we look at it as more of passion and, and it's more fun.
Mm-hmm. And I think when you, when you take that perspective of it doesn't, it doesn't come across as a, um, as a hard, difficult thing. Mm-hmm. You know, you just, you just don't look at it like that. And I think that's kind of our. Um, that's our thing is different stuff.
[01:15:19] Nick Beyer: Hmm.
[01:15:19] Carl Garrett: Not a good chain guy. I told you man, we fell right on our face trying to be a chain.
We, we, our thing is what's happened and you know, the interesting thing is that the table is the brand now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's not table, mesa is not tabla. No. You don't recognize, you know what I mean? Yeah. A little bit. But what you do recognize now is the table. Mm-hmm. And then we can, we can, and so that's, that's more fun when you can diversify.
Mm-hmm. You know, that's more fun when you, when you can get out there and do that instead of doing the same old thing. And my brain doesn't work that way. I mean, my attention span is very, I know they say is a gnat. I don't know. Maybe, but, you know, that's just, [01:16:00] you know, you know, we're all wired. We're all wired.
Everybody has a gift.
[01:16:03] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:16:04] Carl Garrett: I don't know it all. Uh, I have managers that all have unique different gifts. They don't know it all. But collectively we could make a pretty good team. You know, and, um, and it can't certainly rest on me because, you know, if if they think I'm the smartest guy in a room, we're in trouble.
Right? So, but I think I just draw from, um, experience and, and, and things that have, uh, come across my way. And fortunately, thank goodness I paid attention to people who, when they came across my path, I happened to be paying attention. Then most time I'm not. Right. So, but when good chefs and good culinary artisans would come across my path, it was like, it was almost like a divine thing that it was meant to be.
Hmm. And, um, I didn't go to culinary school, but I sure did love being, matter of fact, I hated being in the kitchen for a number of years, but I realized that I'm, if I'm gonna be [01:17:00] successful in this business, I better learn the culinary part of it.
[01:17:02] Nick Beyer: Mm.
[01:17:02] Carl Garrett: And when I got back there. I actually had a knack for it.
Mm-hmm. And, and I enjoyed it. And so, uh, then I would do, I almost got myself killed. I'll share this with you real quick. I was 15 years old. I was working at the Holiday Inn. I showed you that picture of the Holiday Inn. Mm-hmm. And we did really nice gourmet seafood, believe it or not, at the Holiday Inn.
And I took, and the chef had, had me, uh, harvest some lobster tails. And he gave me a piece of lobster and he wanted me to saute. Well, I took the lobster and I put it, I battered and I fried it and I ate it. He about killed me. So you never do this, the lobster, you bullet head. So he called me, well, now what are we doing?
We're frying lobster, we're frying shrimp, we're frying everything. And I was a, I think I was ahead of the time frying lobster, you know, because sure was tasting to me, you know, I didn't have to poach it in butter and do all that stuff, you know. So I was always a little wacky when it came to stuff, [01:18:00] you know?
And when I worked for Hoa Hands. Uh, we did wacky stuff. I mean, we, we had food. We took a potato skin and made an entree out of it, you know, just, you know. Yeah. And, and then we're all over the board. So I, I was perfect in my element. When I went to work for Houston's restaurant, I learned about precision and expertise and strategy, but, you know, just execution.
But there is no creativity there. And it was their way or the highway in, in a, in a nice sort of way. Mm. But, but I learned that that was valuable to me, you know, as an operator. So, uh, whether it's complexities or not, it's a, it's, it's joy. It's fun. Mm-hmm. It's allowing you to be creative and allowing you to plan.
And what better way. You know, to earn a buck than, than and to do unique things like this, you know? Absolutely.
[01:18:50] Nick Beyer: Well, before we get a little bit more into where, where we're headed, and maybe we can talk about a couple of those concepts. Okay. Or more just kind of your growth in general. We kind of give [01:19:00] just a, an overview of where y'all are at right now, whether it's a, you know, just a, a scale perspective.
So it could be employees or revenue or Yeah. Uh, you know, whatever that looks like. How you're evaluating the business, the scale of it so people can understand that.
[01:19:15] Carl Garrett: Well, I think we're now 400 plus employees. Wow. At least that's what the accounting people tell me. So it's a lot of people to keep track of, but we don't, you know, we just try to, as far as training and development, give them a plan.
We, we tell them that you have basically four responsibilities that's engaged with our guests. Go out of your way for them. To merchandise yourself, your attitude, your thoughts, be the same person you try. We, we try to get 'em to be the same person outside as inside as we know. That doesn't always work.
Right. And then teamwork is a huge deal. You know, teamwork should be an unsolicited approach. You know, you learn that in team sports. If you're a basketball player or something, you realize that's just not all about you, you, it's, [01:20:00] it's a team effort. That's the way it is in, in, in our world. And the technical part of the job, being technically proficient at what you do, knowing, having wisdom.
You know, wisdom is basically taking, understanding and putting into action, you know? Mm. And that's what we try to get people, you know, to do volume wise. I mean, you know, 10 restaurants, we probably see a few more after that. Who knows? Who knows? You know, I can't say, yeah, we're gonna do 20 and we're gonna stop.
I mean, we may do, uh, 11, and that'll be the end of it, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, or we may do. A hundred. That may be the end of it, you know? I don't know. So whether we're a $20 million company roughly, or we become a $200 million company or a billion dollar company, I don't know. But if I get caught up into that, I got problems.
[01:20:51] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:20:52] Carl Garrett: You know, I can't do that. Mm-hmm. That's what got me into trouble before. That's good. Let's try to get the top number and try to be something. Hey, [01:21:00] life's short. You get to learn that a little bit. Wisdom put into action. You don't need to do all that. You don't need to be the big rockstar, like, you know, I'm the new shiny restaurant.
Come, come see me. We're it, we're the big deal. That, that's a short period of time. That's only a season. You know, someone told me a long time ago, when you're a, when you're a restaurateur or your your own business, you have a print shop or something, you have five seconds of of fame. You walk out the door.
If you put your name on the place, you see, you know, Cameron's place or something, and you go back in. Nix or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. Nix is a great name for a pizza joint, by the way. I was gonna tell you that. But you know, you, you come in and that's the end of it. Now, what are you, you're a fabric of society.
You're an employer. That's it. Game over. You're an employer and you're part of society. You're part of the neighborhood, and you gotta operate like that. You know? And then one step at a time, and [01:22:00] God willing, if there's a great place and you go want to go and you want to be there, then do a little bit of an analytical thinking, do a little bit of homework, do some due diligence, but you can do all that and still fail.
But go where you feel that you're led to be and trust that gut. And then it wouldn't help to have some finances. And you can do your competitive, you can look around you and say, this restaurant does 5 million, this restaurant does 10 million. Well then I get a good chance to do 4 million. I'm gonna go there and, and never make it because two things will kill you in a restaurant business, rent and labor.
Mm-hmm. And if you don't have those things under control, if one of those is out of balance, you're done.
[01:22:41] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:22:42] Carl Garrett: So you can't, can't go on, like, I gotta be in this great shopping center, there's a marina and, and my rent is, uh, 30,000 a month, but I think I can do eight or nine or 10 million. Mm-hmm. Well, what happens if you don't do eight or nine 10 million?
You're still gonna pay 30,000 a month.
[01:22:58] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm. [01:23:00]
[01:23:00] Carl Garrett: Yeah. That's a scary number, isn't it? Yeah. But I've seen people do that, you know, and, uh, and it takes, they say high tide raises all boats. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, you have a lot of restaurants and you have a few dogs, and those other ones gotta raise that up, you know?
Mm-hmm. That's what's having in Bella Vista. I think those guys are lagging 'em behind only because they're having matured yet.
[01:23:18] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:23:18] Carl Garrett: The fruits still growing on the vine out there, and pretty soon they'll stand on their own two feet. That's
[01:23:23] Nick Beyer: good. So why, why keep going? Not even keep going, why accelerate?
You know? Yeah. You, you have probably so many options, whether it's selling the business. Yeah. Like why, why keep going?
[01:23:35] Carl Garrett: Well, you know, that's a great question because most of my friends are retiring and I don't have a, I don't have the faintest desire to retire. I don't know, I think my wife would just. Go crazy if I retired, I mean, and I don't play golf, I quite frankly suck at golf.
Um, you know, sometimes I think I'm good and then the next day it's like I never picked up a club, so that's not [01:24:00] my sport. Um, and I'm not a runner anymore 'cause I had, uh, my knee scoped, so that's over with. And I like the surfing part, but I don't live near the beach, so what am I gonna do? Um, I like do doing what I'm doing, you know, and I'm in the fun part of the season of my life.
I like, I talk to people like Cameron and yourself and real estate guys and, you know, that's fun. And um, sometimes it's fun, so no, it's not. But you never know, you know, life, you know, you never know what happens another year down the road. Something could complete change. We just don't know. But, you know, but that's the beautiful part.
And, and the, the thing about my business, I get to be in the food part of it. And my palate hasn't died off. You know, I still can taste things and I think I've been given too strong of a nose, so I can smell stuff that people can't smell. So I know that's weird, but that's just it for me. But I just, this is, uh, I think if I'm 97 years old and I can still [01:25:00] be part of my, part of this company, I, I, that would, that would be awesome.
You know, and get to, that's cool. Get to do a little bit with my family, take 'em on vacation, you know, a couple weeks, a year or something. But, you know,
[01:25:13] Nick Beyer: but so why Florida? I mean, that, you know, from the outside looking in, people are like, okay, Carl's got eight or nine restaurants in northwest Arkansas and he's planning to open two in Florida.
Like, is he crazy? Why, why Florida? Exactly.
[01:25:25] Carl Garrett: That's why. Well, here's the thing. Only go to markets. This is just Carl's advice. You don't have to listen, but you know, or you know, you know, but, you know, sorry. But the, um. Phones are distracting. Get rid of that thing. Why Florida? I grew up in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, so I have a connection there.
Mm. I know the market and it's a dream for me to go there and do that. It's, it's, it's a dream and I feel so good about going there, you know, and I'm excited to go there and, uh, [01:26:00] I wouldn't be excited. I now, I lived in Houston for 20 years, but I'm not excited to go to Houston.
[01:26:05] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[01:26:05] Carl Garrett: And I know the market really good.
And that's, and, and that's a phenomenal restaurant town. Mm-hmm. It'd be tough not to make it in Houston. It really would, or Dallas, but just there's no desire. Tulsa looked, it seems pretty close. That's a couple hours away. That'd be, that wouldn't be bad strategy, but that market speaks to me. Know, and so that area speaks to me.
So I see, I, I envision from that part of Jackson where we're at, even to far as St. Augustine being somewhere in that area, that That'd be fun. 'cause I think if you're gonna grow your business, go to places that you like going. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, go, go. If you like going to Florida, if you wanna open one in The Bahamas, more power to you feel like if that's what you, you wanna do, but go to someplace that you really enjoy traveling and, and being there.
And that you could spend significant amount of time too.
[01:26:53] Nick Beyer: So that's part of it. But you have a strategy. I mean, you know, the market, you, but, but to also talk about what, and I know you may [01:27:00] not. I guess you have some experience, right? Joplin. Conway. But yeah. What does it look like to manage and own a restaurant in a completely different, that's a flight, right?
Jacksonville's a flight. Yeah. Yeah,
[01:27:10] Carl Garrett: that's right. Yeah. So talk about that. You can't, you can can't, so you gotta put people down there, you trust. So we're putting a team down there that work for us. I've got the general manager's been working for me for pushing 10 years. Wow. Mm-hmm. So we got somebody we can trust on that gets our value so she can pioneer it and get it and colonize it, if you will.
It's like going to Mars, right? She, you can go down there and colonize it. And the chef that we're putting down there, his work for us for over 10 years, so we got that going for us. Mm-hmm. And then we've interviewed, we've taken our time, we've interviewed. Yeah, we've got 200 applicants for management position and so we found one out of the 200 that we like.
Wow. So, so we're, we're going in, you know, with that mindset that people that we can trust. 'cause I told 'em, I said, Carl can't jump on a flight and come down there and fix you up, you [01:28:00] gotta fix it. Mm. So, and I think she gets, she gets it. Matter of fact, I know she gets that. And then we have, we we're developing more multi-unit.
So we have two multi-unit people. I have a director of operations and I'm also developed a, a multi-unit manager who's gonna go down there. So at some point, you know, you gotta go, I can't, I'm not omni president. Right. Yeah. I can't be in all these places. You gotta have people if you're gonna grow. That's how you gotta, you have to grow with people, you know.
You just can't go. Well, I like Miami. I'm going down there. Well, you don't have any infrastructure. You're not, it ain't gonna work out for you. Right. So talk about,
[01:28:37] Cameron Clark: I mean, you, you wrote a book. Yes. Tell, tell us about that. Uh, where can people get the book? What's the book called? So what's the book about?
[01:28:46] Carl Garrett: Well, you know, after, you know, lots of people ask me that, how did you get here? How'd you get here? How'd you get here? I don't know. After 6,000 people ask you how you get here. I felt like I need to tell a story about that. You know? And, and, and it's a [01:29:00] faith-based self-help, uh, business book all compressed into one.
I tried to throw all of that in there. Uh, for those who wanna start a restaurant, there's stuff in there that you can get out of it. For those who, uh, like me, who were never religious or spiritual at all until one day. I saw the light, you know, in Seattle that I struggled so hard. That was another struggle where I, uh, wanted to be an entrepreneur so bad that somebody actually gave me a piece of a restaurant and I could go in there and make it.
And this was in 1999. Um, but only that, the guy who gave me some of the restaurant had a lien on the place and owed the tax man and owed vendors and had multiple partners I didn't know about. And it was a hot mess. I got myself in very stupid just to be able to have a claim of fame and put myself in restaurant news or something, I don't know.
But, um, [01:30:00] but you know, the book tells that story of, of. You know, going through life, even as a kid, you know, um, my mother struggled. I don't, I don't mind be, you know, saying that I, I didn't know my dad. That's, that's okay. You know, I sometimes, you know, you hear people, I didn't know my dad. My dad was abusive.
This, I, you know, and I, I'm, I'm usually not that, um, uh, feeling for them, you know? 'cause I didn't know my father. I always tell people, I'm kind of, of this mindset that, well, uh, you're living now. Get over it. And I, I know that that's, that doesn't sound warm and fuzzy to some people. But that's just my, my nature, if you will, that Hey, you're living now.
Don't, you can't dwell in the past. Mm. You know, I, I, you know, if somebody was abusive to you and all that, I understand that's hard. You know, you need to get fixed up. But right now, look at where you are now, and you got a whole life ahead of you. So don't spend too much time back [01:31:00] there. You know, look, look ahead.
Mm. So in the book, I, I, I, I put stuff so it's. Uh, the story to Table Mesa, you know, from the, I think it's, it's the taglines from, from the crumbs underneath the table. Literally, you know, those crumbs underneath the table to actually a seat at the table.
[01:31:16] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:31:16] Carl Garrett: And I'll say this, that the name table, I didn't realize it, but the name was given to us.
I, I believe by, by the Lord Inspirationally. Uh, because, um, I, I thought it was this, I thought, well, table is synonymous to dining and restaurants and people are gonna get that right. The table. That makes sense. Actually, it wasn't that at all. I just learned a year ago what her name was all about strangely as enough.
Mm-hmm. So I was reading in the book of, uh, uh. Psalms 23 where it says that he'll present a table in the midst of your enemies. I don't know if you remember as a kid, you always read Psalms 23. Right? And, uh, you know, Lord's my Shepherd type. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and the [01:32:00] table it dawned on me is flat. Like if we came here, well, you guys came here, there was nothing on this table.
It's flat. What we've done now what do we do? We added drinks and stuff pre, I mean, we could have food. And then now you have people and you're having conversation. So the table's built on, I I was, I had to get flat, like a table for I could be built on where things could be built on me. And so that was it.
I had that aha moment a year ago. I've had this restaurant for 18 years talking about like, dull not getting it. And I realized it's just that aha moment. And I must have read that Psalms 23, 15,000 times in, in my, in my little tenure. Maybe not. I might be exaggerated, but mm-hmm. You know, and, and so that, that, that book will tell the story how we got here.
Um, and uh, and the struggles that you can go through and, um, and you just gotta hang, hang tough, you know, which is a [01:33:00] cliche, but you have to be, I think the power is humility and weight. It's a waiting game. So, you know, a lot of times we, we, we send a prayer up, we need a, we need an answer for a prayer about something.
We, we need it, we need it done now. Right? Come on, we need it now. But then you don't get it now and you say, well, that don't work for me. No, thi there's things gotta get orchestrated, you know? And we must have prayed for, for, for, to get on our own where we were in Seattle for, for years, you know, we even prayed to get into Seattle.
That took a lot of work. Mm-hmm. You just gotta wait it out and be cool.
[01:33:41] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:33:42] Carl Garrett: And, and, and be humble and, uh, just be a, just be a genuine, loving, good person. Mm-hmm. That's, that's tough to do, but that's what we have to do. That's the journey on the whole planet. We can figure that out. And it, not to figure out, it's pretty easy.
Pretty easy. But you don't have to be the big dog, you know? And I [01:34:00] still get troubled with co I'm a competitor, very strong competitor. So when I see other restaurants, what's the first thing I want to do? Go in there and, eh, let's go in there and knock some teeth out. Eh, you know, see that's not how it's done.
You know, they're gonna go through the same travels. We are, you know, we don't know what they're, what it's like to rest their head on the pillow at night. What they're dealing with may look really nice on the outside. And you may think when these new restaurants come and go, oh, we're in trouble. We gotta give up slices of the pie.
Nah, don't worry about that. You know, just do what you're doing and you'll be fine. You know?
[01:34:36] Cameron Clark: Well, I want to kind of get us to wrapping up here. I know y'all are about to open up, um, for lunch. Um, but two last questions we wanna ask every guest. Sure. Before, uh, so number one, why build a business in northwest Arkansas?
What would you tell somebody, um, who's thinking about starting a business here, whether they're here already or coming to the area? Why build a business here? Well,
[01:34:58] Carl Garrett: Northwest [01:35:00] Arkansas is, has a lot of offerings more than probably other markets. So you've got three or four, uh, I guess, uh, what, what would you call it, uh, on the Forbes list or something.
I mean, you, if you know, you've got, uh, major players like Walmart, aren't they? That biggest retailer.
[01:35:23] Nick Beyer: Mm-hmm.
[01:35:23] Carl Garrett: That's not bad. That's, there's, there's several thousand employees. You got Tyson, you got JB Hunt, you have a lot of satellite, you have a lot of vendors. You, you now, you're getting medical. You got a world class museum.
Um, what am I missing? You got a world class university. Um, you're getting hotels, you're getting tourism. The bikes are becoming a big deal. So if you're a mountain bike person, I mean, you have all these boxes you can check off. Why not?
[01:35:49] Nick Beyer: Hmm, why
[01:35:50] Carl Garrett: not? You know? Um, it's just trying to get a deal done.
[01:35:54] Nick Beyer: Yeah.
[01:35:54] Carl Garrett: Trying to get a deal done the right deal. And, um, so it's tough if you're a [01:36:00] tenant, if you're a tenant trying to negotiate something because the developer's costs are high, so everybody's costs are high. Mm. So even though we are in a wonderful market like northwest Arkansas, which is a good, fruitful place to try to make something happen, you know, but, uh, you, you, you gotta have, you know, if I had to, to do what I'm doing now.
18 years ago, I don't know if I could do it even with the money that I saved. Yeah. Based on inflation. Mm-hmm. I still don't know if I could, could, could do it. I just hit the right time at the right place and sometimes do it to invest, sometimes the economy needs to be a little meh, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah.
And then you stick your neck out there. But northwest Arkansas probably one of the best places in, in, and I think it's a safe refuge for us to be here. Mm. So,
[01:36:53] Cameron Clark: well, and last question, how do you define success?
[01:36:58] Carl Garrett: Well, [01:37:00] um, simple as that may see, and I like to tell you how, how professional and how smart I am, but that would be a lie.
I would say that success me is measured on, um, your willingness to serve. I can't help but. Express, I can't emphasize that enough. Your humility and you're willing to serve others. It's a phenomenon. It's like gravity. You can't see it. You know, stuff comes down. Mm-hmm. Uh, it holds everything in the universe in place.
And then I think the law of reciprocity, you know, uh, someone smiles at you, you smile back, somebody flips you off on the highway, eh, you might be tempted to do the same unwise. Right. But I think that law of reciprocity, uh, helps breed success, you know? Mm-hmm. And, uh, I think, uh, I'd stay, I'd just, I'd be meditating and staying in prayer and, 'cause at the [01:38:00] end of it, you know, you can determine your own step, but the lord's gonna determine, I, I know some people may not like spiritual stuff, but hey, it's out there.
You can't escape it. It's there. I'm, I'm one to tell you, I try, I ran from, it doesn't work. But if you accept that. That the things are out there that you don't see, again, like gravity or reciprocity, things like that help will bring success based on the type of person and how you're treating your fellow man.
You know, that, that, that brings success, you know? Hmm. Because people will like you and wanna offer things, do things, nice things for you. But if you're a jerk and you wanna go in there and you wanna, you know, bust people up and you think you're all that, that's not, that's not a good, good, good recipe for, for success.
I don't believe,
[01:38:50] Nick Beyer: you know? That's good. Well, one of the things we do at the end of every episode is really try to capture, you know, as we listen and learn from you today, what we think [01:39:00] are gonna be the key things that our audience learns from you. And I think, um. The first one, you hit on it a lot throughout the, the whole podcast was passion.
Mm-hmm. And you have a lot of passion for what you're doing. Mm-hmm. And I think you culminate it all culminated when you said, you know, I'd do this till I'm 90 if I can.
[01:39:16] Carl Garrett: Yeah.
[01:39:17] Nick Beyer: That is very rare in, in, in founders and general and business owners like having the, the passion and excitement to do what you're doing.
It's not for the money. It's not for, it's, it's 'cause I like what I'm doing. Yeah. And I get to serve people and I want to do that till I'm 90. Yep. And, uh, I think that was really, especially even hearing you talk about, I mean, from the outside looking at it is crazy that you're gonna open a restaurant in Florida, but you're doing that because you're passionate about it.
You're excited to be in that market. Yeah. And I think anyone who's a business owner thinking about starting a business, if that's not at the epicenter of what you're doing, it, it, it doesn't, it doesn't feel like that's a sustainable recipe. Yeah. So I think you highlighted that really well.
[01:39:55] Carl Garrett: Thank you.
[01:39:56] Nick Beyer: Um, I think the next two, two kind of [01:40:00] go hand in hand, so just your willingness to serve.
You talked about your employees, you talked about the power in serving. Um, you talked about give, give, giving. Those are some of the like kind of key highlights from the interview. And I think if you're a business owner and that is your focus, how can I give to my employees? How can I give to the clients, my patrons who come into my restaurants, how can I serve them?
Your employees, your patrons, they're all gonna have a great experience if that's the focus. Yeah. And so staying really centered on that. Um, and I think one of the really unique things about this interview was, was your humility and really. I mean, we've, we've covered failures with, with people that we've interview view, but you went, you went into depth on some of those.
Mm-hmm. And so thank you for that. Sure. And I think people will learn Carl a lot more from your failures and what you did wrong and your willingness to share those than they will from your successes. Because hopefully, if you can, if you can, if one person listens to this and they can not go to [01:41:00] Joplin or not go to Conway because of something,
[01:41:02] Carl Garrett: by the way, those are probably good markets.
Yeah. For
[01:41:05] Nick Beyer: others. Yes. But, but not make, make a mistake. Exactly. You know, because they're chasing the brand. They're chasing the, the high growth. Right. Yeah. Great markets, but they're chasing the wrong thing. Right. Yeah. Going back to your passion piece. Yeah. Like if it's just to build a chain and it's not to actually, I'm having fun.
I like having Latin, I like having Italian. I like having fish, you know, coming. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Those are fun. If, if it's not centered there, you know, it may not work out. And so thank you for sharing those Exactly. And going in depth there. Yeah. Um, Carl Garrett, we, we really enjoyed having you today. We're, you know, fans of what you're building and just thankful for your time.
How can people learn more about you or, or, um, reach out to you or, you know, all your restaurants. Well just
[01:41:48] Carl Garrett: come in and if I'm here, ask for me and, uh, I'd love to chat with you and visit with you. So, yeah. You know, um. Seven, eight restaurants might be tough. Depends on our timing, how we [01:42:00] meet. But I, I do spend a lot of time at Table Mesa.
That's our, that's our flagship, you know, that obviously it has special meaning. That's our original, you know, um, business. But, uh, yeah. But anyway, yeah. That, that's, that's probably about the best way to do it, you know? And, um, yeah. Cool. So thanks Carl. Thanks for your time. Hey, you bet.
[01:42:20] Cameron Clark: Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of NWA Founders, where we sit down with founders, owners and builders driving growth here in northwest Arkansas.
For recommendations are to connect with us, reach out at nwa, founders@gmail.com. Lastly, if you enjoyed this episode, then please consider leaving a rating, a review, and sending it to someone who you think would benefit from it. We'll see you in the next episode.