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I Love Your Stories is a soulful conversation series hosted by artist and creative guide Hava Gurevich, where art meets authenticity. Each episode invites you into an intimate dialogue with artists, makers, and visionaries who are courageously crafting lives rooted in creativity, purpose, and self-expression.
From painters and poets to healers and community builders, these are the stories behind the work—the moments of doubt, discovery, grief, joy, and transformation. Through honest, heart-centred conversations, Hava explores how creativity can be both a healing force and a path to personal truth.
If you’re an artist, a dreamer, or someone drawn to a more intuitive and intentional way of living, this podcast will remind you that your story matters—and that the act of creating is a sacred, revolutionary act.
[MUSIC]
Welcome back to All of Your Stories.
I'm your host, Tava Gurvitch,
and my guest today is an award-winning
international artist,
scuba diver, and marine conservation
advocate, Janvi Fonsby.
Janvi's work lives at the
intersection of art and science,
and her passion, curiosity,
and sense of purpose
are truly inspiring to me.
Shaped by a life-changing first dive,
her practice brings together research,
collaboration with scientists,
and a deep love of our oceans to create
work that connects people to the beauty
and complexity of marine life.
In this episode, we
talk about ocean optimism,
interdisciplinary art, and what it means
to create work that resonates both
emotionally and scientifically.
I'm so excited to
have Janvi on my podcast.
Janvi, welcome.
Now, quick word from our sponsor,
and then we'll get
right back to the show.
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All right, welcome back
to "I Love Your Stories."
I have a very special guest
here with me, Janvi Fonspi.
Janvi is a multimedia artist.
She's also a diver and an advocate for
marine conservation advocate.
Thank you, Janvi.
I've been so excited to speak with you.
Welcome.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
So let's start with maybe if you want to
say a little bit about your background
and how you got to marine conservation,
how you got to make art about it.
Just a little background.
Yeah.
So I started diving when I was
done with art school in 2008,
which is interesting.
Wait, I should tell
you why I started diving.
It started with us.
So I grew up in Mumbai across the ocean,
like the Arabian Sea,
and water, like whenever I
was down or feeling lost,
I'd go and sit and look at the ocean.
And I would just meditate really to get
calm and try to understand answers.
Being a woman, being a young woman in
India at the time where
I wanted to be an artist,
where it was not socially acceptable was
very difficult, honestly.
At least in my community, I come from a
family of civil engineers and architects.
And they all wanted me to
take up the family business
because I was the oldest in my family.
And I just remember being 16 and told
like if I wanted to be an artist,
I would have to have my first exhibition.
And if I sold art, they
would let me become an artist,
which was kind of weird, honestly, to
think of and messed up in
the world at the same time,
but also very realistic.
You know, I have my own battles with
that, the consumerism of
art at the end of the day.
And so, yeah, I mean, I had
my first solo exhibition at 16.
I sold art and my father said, OK, which
art school do you want to go to?
I applied to three and I got into all of
them and decided to go to the coldest
weather-wise art school.
Which was where?
Chicago, at the School of the Art
Institute of Chicago.
I fell in love with the museum.
I said, wow, I have to go
to art school over here.
But it was so cold and there was this
little tropical Indian
girl coming to Chicago.
And I was so lost.
There was no ocean, but there was the
lake and water was like a common thing.
And again, you know, when I felt like I
go to class and I'm like, you know, I
fell flat on my face.
I had never left the country in terms of
just like going to live somewhere other
than traveling all over the world.
I'd never gone and lived alone.
I didn't know how to do laundry.
Like I was so
sheltered in my Indian society.
And I mean, like I love to cook, so at
least I knew how to feed myself.
I learned how to cook for my grandma.
She taught me a lot of things, but
clearly laundry was
something no one taught me.
When you so you did art school at the Art
Institute in Chicago, were you what kind
of art were you doing then?
OK, so my practices were
very well rounded, like SAIC.
Is the kind of school where you can take
all these different classes,
you build your own practice.
And that's why I have a super
interdisciplinary art practice because I
studied this so weird French
revolutionary art history.
I majored in that. And then I studied
like painting techniques, old school
Renaissance techniques and like pigment
theory and the chemistry of paint,
which is why I have a really strong sense
of color and color theory.
I make a lot of my own oil paint in the
studio for my oil paintings.
I use pigments. I work with pigment labs.
It's been very difficult past covid,
honestly, because a lot of places have
shut down and we don't get a lot of the
same pigments we used to.
So, you know, I gravitated naturally
towards color after
learning pigment theory.
And I have the scientific brain.
Like everything I learned in school has
been very helpful, weirdly.
It also teaches you to be innovative and
learn new techniques, because even after
school is over, new materials come up,
new technologies out.
So my brain is always
constantly adapting.
You learned the base. You learned the
framework that lets you
sort of adapt to anything new.
Exactly. So weirdly, if anyone tells me
today art school wasn't
helpful, I'll be like, I disagree.
It was super helpful for
me. And I learned a lot.
I also was taught how to have a tough
skin because I went to school in the
early 2000s and there were definitely
things said that were not OK today.
Yeah, back to the ocean.
Anyway, I went home and then my mom asked
me anywhere in the world,
where would you like to go?
And I said, I want to go to Vlaxchodip,
these islands above the Maldives.
I had childhood memories that were really
beautiful and special.
And so that's where I
wanted to go diving.
And I picked those islands and we
actually weren't planning to go diving.
We're going to go snorkel.
It was literally like you could walk into
12 feet of water and
a reef is right there.
And it was like squids everywhere.
Beautiful creatures that don't come out
during the night, you know,
because it was just such this.
It was this natural
reserve and it was rare.
Not a lot of people go to
it unless you're Indian.
You wouldn't you
wouldn't really know about it.
I ended up going
diving for the first time.
Not knowing how to use my equipment was
terrifying, but I wanted to
see what was in the water.
I said, you know, water
has been a constant for me.
Growing up as a kid, it's been the one
thing that has given me peace and
solitude and happiness.
And I feel like it physically and
spiritually does connect us all on this
planet, which is why I say.
Absolutely.
And what's fascinating to me was when I
first dove, I just remember this moment
of feeling one with my breath and invited
into a beautiful world that I
definitely didn't belong to.
But I felt welcomed and invited.
And it was so beautiful, like the colors,
the and just hearing your breath.
So it is it is very meditative.
It is very spiritual.
And so I said this, I don't know what
this sense of euphoria is.
I want to recreate this
this moment for the viewer.
And so that has been a
constant for me in all my work.
Is recreating this kind of tension or
space where the viewer can
stand and look at a work of art.
They don't have to feel like
it's part of anything for them.
It just gives them a moment of calm and
collectiveness where they can breathe
within that sublimity and enjoy it.
Wow.
So from your very first dive, you were
hooked and so much so so much so that it
became the subject of
your art from that moment on.
So much so that it
became a big part of my life.
And like every year I would dive and not
make it a point to go diving to a point
where I got certified into like being
able to do some really advanced diving.
And take it on as a sport as a part of my
philosophy, as a part of who I am.
A person, a scuba diver,
an artist, a ocean advocate.
So you you became an avid scuba diver.
You this passion
translated itself into your art.
Where did the ocean conservation come in?
OK, so after diving for quite a long
time, maybe five or six years, I started
bumping into scientists and
people and then local divers.
A lot of the local divers would tell me
about what was happening on the reef and
I would communicate that information back
to marine scientists
working in that region or field.
To a point where I started getting
invited to make art for scientific
papers, collaborating with scientists
where they're like, I don't know how to
explain this theory visually.
Can you help me?
So I worked with like
several marine labs.
I worked with one out of Rice University
and I did like these weird scientific
diagrams that turned out to be like
studies for paintings
and actual works of art.
They were published in
the Global Change Journal.
And then eventually I went into like
creating art towards advocacy, where
because I really feel like
out of sight is out of mind.
It sucks. There's a reason
why artists exist in the world.
Right. Like I feel like you think about
even going back to French Revolutionary
Art history, because that's my like
something I studied.
I think about Amara and like all the
paintings that we've made and how
historic and important
they were for their time.
And people need to see that even though
like we could look back in the news, art
leaves like a person wanting.
They leave the memory of what happened.
So I ended up working a lot
with marine scientists locally.
Locally, wait.
Texas, like in Houston.
And it's very interesting because we have
some of the largest institutes for marine
science are in Texas,
interestingly, with Texas A&M.
Which works on a global platform.
And then, Noah, I started working with
like, you know, I there was this
scientist named Dr. Adrian Korea.
I did a presentation for the Flower
Garden Bank during National Sanctuary.
And the way this happened was
I started making public art.
I really believe in divine timing.
I think things happen for a reason.
Every small project I've done in the past
has led itself to where I am today.
So but that doesn't mean you say yes to
everything as an artist.
Right. I've been very particular and just
said yes, only to things that make sense
with what my work is about.
If it's something it's strange, I really
believe the things that have not worked
out have not been in my best interest.
One of the themes that I like to explore
is this idea that sometimes when
something is going right or you feel like
you are where you need to be.
But you look back and
you see how you got there.
Like, and sometimes it's just things that
at the time felt like a failure or felt
like, you know,
something that didn't work.
And thank God it didn't work because it
led you to the to the thing
that you're supposed to find.
And the thing you you
said how that very first dive
really, you know, up and up until then
you loved water, but that's about it.
And then suddenly this vacation and you
go on a dive that's not even like you
haven't even learned how to dive yet, but
you go and it it changed your life.
I think this is part of being mindful and
aware also just to be receptive to the
universe and what it sounds your way.
I trust my instincts.
Sometimes I've said no to projects that
might have been really large and I'm I
look back and I see how they were
executed or they didn't work out.
You know, there was there's been times
I've had public art projects I've been
selected for final stage and I've even
procured the project.
And then all of a sudden the program
changes and I realized, oh, and it didn't
work out. And I'm like, oh,
thank God it didn't work out.
You you mentioned that this this kind of
dynamic between scientists and divers and
I really want to pick up on that because
you said you said something like, you
know, you would be talking to other
divers and then you'd share that
information with the scientists.
But when we talked earlier, you put it in
another way that was just beautiful.
This this advocacy like talking about
diving from the context of advocacy.
Yeah. So, OK. So one of the reasons I
think I have had luck with this is
because I really believe if you want to
get someone incentivized to understand or
care about something, if you show them
just hardships, they're
not going to understand it.
And I feel like we are so overloaded with
negative information today on our like on
a general platform that it is nearly like
exhaustive and like the
brain can only retain so much.
And then I feel like people are more
depressed than they've ever been.
For me was like, personally, you know, I
have my own battles.
We all have our battles.
But when you talk about negativity, I
don't think it does anything good.
And I'll never forget like Jane Goodall,
like has always said,
hope is so important.
Yeah. And and I mean, it's tough as an
artist is constantly making art about the
ocean and wanting to get people to care.
I'm like, sometimes they don't.
But that doesn't matter. I feel like if I
can show them a different part of it that
they don't see every day and I use the
optimistic side of showing them, oh, look
at this cool sea slug.
It's a sea slug. But can I tell you why
it's cool and what does it do and how
does it fertilize this area on the reef
or, you know, what is it eat?
And it keeps things in check.
And look at how blue it is, even though
it's ugly and black.
You know, I can sell a sea slug.
I can sell I know de Bronx
are like my favorite things.
They're beautiful.
The ranks are cool.
Like I really believe in the power of
ocean optimism is what I call it.
And I call it ocean abundance in terms of
like our bio abundance in terms of
species and just having multiple species
and why they work together.
It's like the importance of each one on a
reef and what it does.
Yeah. So that's kind of
what my work is about.
Say like it really lends itself well into
the science because it works
as a tool towards education.
I think the first step is educating
people once they know more, then they
feel more incentivized
to care. If I, you know, I share your
affinity to marine life and, you know, as
far as my arts
concern or just in general.
And I like to say that if I had another
life to live, not live this life over,
but if I had another one that I, you
know, I would become a marine biologist
because that's I just I
just love marine life so much.
But then I take a step back and this is
something I really love to say and I love
your your reaction to it.
I think one of the most like the best
things about being an artist, like one of
the things I'm most grateful about being
an artist, is that I can I can pick any
subject that's interesting to me, whether
it's like spirituality,
evolution, marine biology,
ecology, whatever it is, and I can study
it for myself as much as I want.
I can go as deep as I want, but I can go
as deep as I want to make my art.
I don't have to like become a scientist.
I don't have to like
write theses and all of that.
And it's it gives me that freedom, that
multidisciplinary freedom to explore
subjects and then they
become part of my vocabulary.
Yeah, I mean, who is it? Was it Schubert
or Stad? Are it is greater than science?
Because one of the likes, I think science
is all about accumulation of data as the
other one actually is
translating that data.
Oh, I love that.
I'm paraphrasing it, but that it's
actually in it's called The Book of
Philosophy by Will Durett.
And there's actually a
quote about this by Schubert.
And it's true. And I remember reading
that when I was young and thinking.
That I want to be an artist.
It makes sense. Yeah.
No, I mean, like so for me, just working
with the marine scientists that I've
worked with, I've realized like they're,
you know, science is so.
It's heavy and it is
accumulation of data.
It is literally calculating all of these
the information
that's been put out there.
But beyond that and
presenting it, what happens next?
Right. Like you can get investors to a
certain degree, but it's so
heavy and dry as a subject.
It's hard for the general
public to comprehend it.
And it's hard. And I think that that's
why me as a public artist all of a
sudden, it's a tool
like even it's interesting.
Even my paintings, I feel like work as
like they're I'm an
installation based artist.
I look at even each painting or series
that I do as an install and like even the
work that collectors buy.
I feel like our installs are plants that
go into their home to share the stories
of different locations.
Like I literally have
something called the Lockett series.
They're my version of diptychs where they
look like diptychs together, but they
could be sold as
individual oil paintings.
And the idea is for different parts of
the planet to be conversing about it.
Oh, I love that. I love that.
It's kind of neat. Like now when you get
work from the Olympic Northwest and all
of a sudden it's like in Asia or in
Persia or like in Portugal somewhere.
So I mean, then one goes back to where
it's from, which is in Canada.
It feels wholesome to me as an artist to
know that that's where the art lives.
If that makes sense. It's not about being
attached to the work.
I have this strict rule of every work of
art. Move on to the next.
The next idea is the better one and just
keep going because the ocean is so
abundant and my inspiration is endless.
What are you most
passionate about right now?
Right now, I'm very curious about
exploring something called Coraline algae
and how it works on a coral reef system.
I feel like it's something we're not
studying enough of scientifically.
And it was actually a question that was
posed to me by marine scientists.
I work with out of Australia to consider
thinking about it, to bring more
attention to coraline algae, because it's
literally where a coral spore goes and
sits and turns into an entire reef.
Oh, it also functions.
Yeah, like that's where
your coral starts to grow.
It's I call it the magic pink stuff.
Coral nursery.
Yeah. And it's it's the sticky looking
pink algae that you could see in
different regions all over the world.
So I'm like, but I'm like not only
photographing them when I'm diving, I'm
also photographing them in tide pools.
I'm also painting them in my paintings
and I'm showcasing all the different
places and how and a
lot of the marine species.
So really, I am very
focused on bioabundance.
I'm focused on how different reef systems
and tide pool systems work together to
keep species in check in
their food chains as well.
The work is very like a scientist.
Yes, it is very research based.
And like the interesting part of it is
I'm also very intrigued about how some
species are doing better, not in their
natural habitats, as opposed to how they
are in their habitat.
So it started with me thinking about how
we have something called ocean cup coral
that's an invasive species in the Flower
Garden Bags National Marine Sanctuary.
And I was really curious because in
Mumbai I saw ocean cup coral
and it's not growing very well.
It's doing terribly.
And Indonesia, when you see it at its
natural size, it's so beautiful.
But then when you see it overgrowing in
Texas, what was
interesting to me is to see
when you see one of these coral species
in the natural habitat and how they're
growing and they may not be doing so
well, I started to really think about how
are things doing better on other sides of
the planet that are not
supposed to live there.
And so that's a
conversation I'm curious about.
Yeah, that's really interesting.
And it is an anthropogenic thing.
When anthropogenic means changes to the
natural habitat due to human changes.
So like they some of these things were
brought over on boats and how they went
over from one side of
the planet to the other.
That's us. Right. Right.
But if it's thriving there, I'm
wondering, well, can we not do something
as a human being to do a reverse
anthropogenic change,
which sounds bizarre.
So that's the artist's brain, right, like
to question science and
push scientists to think more.
And it's yes, it is. You you're kind of
like a Renaissance woman in that sense
where artists and
scientists were the same person.
So I know you you're
having an exhibition.
You get an exhibition that's opening by
the time this podcast airs.
It's going to be open. Yeah.
So do you want to tell us a little bit
about this exhibition?
Oh, yes. The exhibition's at the Rockford
Center for the Arts.
It's in Rockford, Texas, on the Texas
coast, which I think is really succinct
for it to be like my
first solo museum exhibition.
And the works are inspired from all over
the world over 10 decades
of like 10, sorry, 10 years.
So one decade of like
stupid diving, I guess.
I'm not that old. I'm not 100 years old.
Now, it's kind of it's really beautiful.
The exhibition is titled Magic Water.
And it's it's this the space
is a large space that I treat.
I've literally approached it where each
wall is a different installation.
And so it starts with the work called
Conversations of our Sea.
And then it goes into my lenticular
underwater photography, which I have been
using now for a long time.
I think it captures
movement underwater really well.
And it shows you some of the references
directly to the work in the show and my
work, obviously, like my oil paintings.
And then, yeah, it's called
Portal Magic, which is cool.
It's neat. The exhibition has all my
research drawings in vinyl print forms.
So I'm doing a mural to say.
And then I've got over one hundred and
forty different sculptures that are
porcelain pieces that are really cool.
I've seen those on your
website. They're gorgeous.
They don't look like one hundred and
forty sculptures when you see them.
It's like an installation.
They're all these sea anemones inspired
by different colored sea anemones from
South Africa and from the Olympic Coast
National Marine Sanctuary.
So the exhibition opens on April April
18th and then it's on till June 7th and
it's open to the public.
It's free of charge. There's no ticket
fee or anything to enter
and see the exhibition.
And I'm also having a opening reception
on May 9th from six
from five to seven p.m.
It's called the
Rockford Center for the Arts.
And it's in Rockford, Texas.
It's in Rockford, Texas.
OK, for somebody that doesn't know your
work and just like just a member of the
community that just happens to walk in
and look at the work.
What are you hoping
that they will get from it?
Well, when they first walk in, I want
them to be completely enthralled and feel
the same thing I said when you first when
I first experienced when I was diving.
It's about beauty for sure. Showcases the
beauty of our oceans in
both abstraction and realism.
I think that is one of the things they
don't have to think of
anything if they want information.
That's where I leave them wanting.
And I feel like usually when you see the
work, some of it is self-explanatory.
Each title of the work is named after the
dive site or the tide pool location or
where I was working.
The work is witty in that sense.
It naturally makes
people want to know more.
You know what I mean?
I want to leave them happy, hoping and
wanting to learn more, which usually
happens most of the time.
So yeah.
So you want you want like the advocacy to
like get into the back door.
They get so excited
about what they're seeing.
And then think of it.
That's that's that's kind of what I've
done and been successful with.
I've realized like when you bombard
someone with heavy information, it's not
something they are necessarily going to
gravitate towards in
the most polite manner.
So I've learned this is
the technique to do it.
Like no one knew what the flower gardens
like until we did the Aquarius Art
Funnel, which is this massive
installation in Houston.
People weren't so aware.
So I was like, let's start.
I'm talking about India.
I'm talking about the Pacific Northwest.
And it's literally the
show is called Magic Water.
That's the title.
It's about the magic in our oceans and
the water and how they function.
So yeah, I think it'll be interesting
like to see the
response and reaction so far.
I tested it out with a few scientists to
see what they think.
And it's been kind of fun.
So I'm excited to see
what comes out of this.
I'm really excited for you.
I wish I could be there.
Yeah. Oh, and it gets there.
It's also like been
officially endorsed as a U.N.
Ocean Decade activity,
which I think is important.
So it does. Yeah, I I worked hard.
Like there is a catalog that goes with
the exhibition and there's like
scientific research
based into all the work.
And it's a fun way of telling people like
this is what we have.
And how can you help?
There are some answers there, too.
And what we can do to
start with our own community.
It's very focused on the concept of one
ocean, which is how we're globally
connected on one planet throughout.
What's with that's what you're talking
about, seeing the map
with just the water.
It's all one body of water.
And that's honestly the
work conceptually does. Yeah.
So that's what you would walk away with.
If that makes some sense.
That's absolutely makes sense.
Final question for you.
And this is something I
like to ask all my guests.
You've been involved
in so many different.
Scientific projects, advocacy,
your art, exhibitions, dives,
you know, school, all
this amazing life so far.
What is your definition of success?
Oh, my God, this is a tough one.
I keep getting asked this
question by many people.
And, you know, success is contentment.
If that makes sense.
I feel like you could always want more.
I've learned just even
trying sometimes that whole.
I don't know, like because I come from an
Indian family, if you understand,
I was told if I didn't get an A in
school, I was not doing well.
But I was never getting any school
because I was studying physics and math.
And when I see your whole
body of work executed or I see
an entire public art installation and I
see somebody walking through it
and smiling and happy, that has given me
more of a moment of like,
you know, the tearjerker or something
that pulls at the heart.
It's more than like any
grant proposal or anything to do.
It's that connection with another human.
Yeah. And like I realized like.
Any I mean, like I
could list my accolades.
My resume is there. I don't need more.
Honestly, it's about it's about what the
art does for people.
I've seen kids to families who don't
speak a word of English
rejoicing and enjoying my art.
And when I've seen it actually functioned
towards science and helping scientists,
that has been more reportful than any.
Yeah. I love that.
And I feel like my work is not done
because there's a lot I have to do.
But I learned to be really grateful and
set in gratitude and thank those moments.
And I really believe in divinity.
I really believe in divine timing.
I believe in manifestation.
I wouldn't be here if I
didn't do all of this.
Just like me connecting with you.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you love the ocean.
I love it when other artists
are inspired by the same thing
because I'm like, we all have to care.
This planet, it's for everyone.
I say water is for all of us.
So yeah, yeah, like that.
Like literally, you know how your hair
stands up when you're like,
hi, like it's awesome, because I'm just
thinking like I've won awards.
The awards have not felt they feel great.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not going to say no to an award.
I've won like
international public art awards.
I've won awards and
grants, but that's not.
That's nothing in comparison
to seeing a random stranger
like photographing
themselves with your art.
Yeah.
Or you know what I mean?
I don't know how to explain that.
If that's sounds weird, it's different.
It's not. It's not.
Because at the end of the day, art is
visual communication.
It is. Yeah.
It's you know, you're you're telling a
story and someone
listened and understood.
And that's that's what makes it real.
Or even even when a collector purchases a
work of art, but it's in their home
and they're so happy with it, it's not
even about making the sale.
Really.
I feel like the one thing I love to do is
an installation,
multidisciplinary artist.
I like to be there to see the install in
the home and help navigate it
because I want everyone to be happy.
And when I see someone smiling at the end
of the day, I don't know.
That to me is success like that.
We can apply to grants and do things for
the rest of our lives.
We can apply to 100 projects.
We could have 100 people buy the work.
But every time you see
somebody actually moved by it.
That's what counts.
I want to thank you for this.
I could talk to you all night.
I know. I'm sorry.
I feel like I I I'm very sciencey.
So I don't have a science.
Like, there you go.
You don't have to be a
freaking marine scientist.
Really. But I will say I
love working with them.
And I have some really good friends who
are marine scientists.
And right now, I think they need more
more like inspiration than ever
because it's tough at this time.
They just when you're
constantly getting data
and nothing's happening with that data.
And I feel like that's
something I can help with.
Yeah, it's been fun.
First, thank you. Thank you so much.
One last thing.
How can people find you if they want to
learn more about you?
They can definitely find
me on my website, for sure,
which is Germany and phones be dot com.
But I will have will
have the information.
Also, they can definitely
find me on Instagram. Awesome.
For my more like more information on what
I'm doing at the time
and up to date stuff.
You see Studio Sneak Peek.
You want to see my stories.
I usually post that.
Fantastic. Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Really appreciate it.
I appreciate you too. All right. OK.
OK. Thanks again for tuning in.
That's our episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
And if you did, please help us out by
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Every little bit helps,
and I really appreciate it.
And before we go, I want
to give a huge shout out
to our sponsor and
producer, Art Storefronts.
If you've been thinking about turning
your art into a real business
or just want to level up your online
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especially with the holiday selling
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I can't stress this enough.
Art Storefronts isn't
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They're a full blown
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They'll give you a free art review and a
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So go to artstorefronts.com.
Tell them how I've sent you, and I'll
catch you on the next episode.