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In this episode of the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, hosts Chris and John dive deeply into the intricacies of 1099 forms with the help of guest expert Kaitlyn Rummel from EH Business Services. Kaitlyn brings her experience to the table, discussing how 1099 forms work, their significance in tax documentation, and strategic tips for businesses to manage them efficiently.
Opening with an introduction to the topic, Kaitlyn sheds light on different types of 1099 forms, emphasizing the infamous 1099-NEC. With a focus on how businesses can minimize tax burdens legally and ethically, the episode uncovers best practices, common misconceptions, and the dos and don'ts of 1099s. The conversation explores the close interplay between professional bookkeeping and foolproof tax planning, presenting guidance that listeners can implement immediately.
Key Takeaways:
- 1099-NEC forms are essential for businesses to report non-employee compensation, and they must be filed by January 31 each year.
- Businesses should collect a W-9 form from contractors before commencing financial transactions to facilitate accurate 1099 documentation.
- Payments made via credit card do not require a 1099-NEC because they are reported on a 1099-K by the card processor.
- Penalties for not filing 1099s can range from minor fees to substantial charges, depending on the delay and the nature of non-compliance.
- Keeping organized records and leveraging bookkeeping software like QuickBooks can significantly ease the process of issuing 1099s.
Notable Quotes:
- "It's better to have [a W-9] and then find out that you don't need it." - Kaitlyn Rummel
- "Just because you have a contractor doesn't always mean that you will file a 1099 for them." - Kaitlyn Rummel
- "Quickbooks will automatically take out those transactions made with a credit card and just give you the transactions that count towards the 1099." - Kaitlyn Rummel
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www.repstracker.com/affiliate/teachingtaxflow (CODE: IFG)
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What is Teaching Tax Flow: The Podcast?
Welcome to “Teaching Tax Flow: The Podcast”, the show that’s all about demystifying taxes and helping you keep more of your hard-earned income in your pocket.
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Welcome to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, where the goal is to empower and educate you to legally and ethically minimize taxes paid over your lifetime.
Disclaimer:Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the podcast here today. We are gonna dive into episode 75. It's got a little bit of a ring there. Those 10 90 nines, the what, when, and how they are issued.
John Tripolsky:But before that as always, let's take a brief moment, and thank our sponsor on this episode.
Disclaimer:This podcast is sponsored by Repstracker. Are you a real estate investor who is bogged down with the huge tax burden? Real estate investing can open the door to powerful tax benefits. Reps tracker can streamline the process of accelerating these tax benefits. To take advantage of a special TTF community discount, go to www.repstracker.com/affiliate/teachingtaxflow and use the code ifg.
Disclaimer:You can look in our show notes or email us at hello @ teachingtaxflow.com.
John Tripolsky:Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Teaching Tax Flow, the podcast. We have got a great topic today. I know some of you were waiting for. We are gonna talk about those 10 90 nines. So as I always like to poke fun at, if you took the all of 13 seconds or so, listen to the intro of this show, or if you know how to read, you probably read the show notes already.
John Tripolsky:Kinda like the cliff notes. But without giving away too much information on these 10 90 nines, Chris, welcome back to, well, let's call it what it is. It's your own show. How's it going, man?
Chris Picciurro:It is going wonderfully, John. It's it's our show. It's our little baby. Oh, my goodness. Social Security number.
Chris Picciurro:Maybe we can put it on our tax return. We'll have a custody we'll have a custody agreement.
John Tripolsky:Oh, boy. See where see where this is going? Oh, man. Well, well, Ian, let's take let's take the fun out of you wanting to, formalize our child here. I guess we can call this podcast.
John Tripolsky:But we brought on somebody that knows a lot more about this than I do, which is Chris likes to poke fun at me with. It doesn't take a whole lot to do that. So Caitlin Rummel from Business Services is gonna run us through what these 10 90 nines actually are and maybe even more importantly what they aren't. So, Caitlin, how are you doing today?
Kaitlyn Rummel:I'm doing good. How are you?
John Tripolsky:Well, we're doing pretty good. Obviously, you can tell by, me and mister Pecuro poking fun at each other. So, hopefully, you know what you signed up for.
Kaitlyn Rummel:Yeah. Sounds like it's gonna be a good time.
John Tripolsky:Well, we well, I apologize for anything that Chris may say. So we,
Chris Picciurro:Right. Yeah. That that goes without saying. Well, Caitlin, welcome. I know we've worked a lot on some mutual clients together.
Chris Picciurro:Thanks for joining the podcast. Before we dive into the 10/99 issue or issues, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into bookkeeping and and what kind of kind of clients that you typically work with.
Kaitlyn Rummel:So I got into bookkeeping because of my mom. She was a bookkeeper. And just growing up seeing that kind of got me interested. And where I learned most of my stuff from was her. I'm sorry.
Kaitlyn Rummel:Somebody just walked in.
John Tripolsky:Hey. You know what? It's kinda like a 10.99 when they randomly show up in the mail, you know, unexpected. You need to know what to do with these things. Right?
John Tripolsky:So as is life. It's totally fine. Yeah. Exactly. Totally fine.
John Tripolsky:Exactly fine.
Chris Picciurro:So, Caitlin, man, where do you do do you where where did you grow up? And, I mean, what what you know, did you work with clients in a specific area or or all over the country?
Kaitlyn Rummel:So I grew up in Pennsylvania. I still live here, and mostly I've worked remotely, with clients all over the United States.
John Tripolsky:And then to Caitlin, so here here's a question for you. So, obviously, Chris knows more about this than I do. You know more about it than all of us. So a lot of our listeners being self employed. Right?
John Tripolsky:So I'll I'll kinda use myself as an example to kinda get into this. So first question. Right? I always used to call Chris and other people like him, you know, oh, well, they're they're my bookkeeper. They're my accountant.
John Tripolsky:In your eyes, they're different. Right?
Kaitlyn Rummel:Correct. Yeah.
John Tripolsky:Obviously. So and I know we talked about this in a previous episode, but I really want people to kinda get their get the grasp on this. Right? So give us kind of your your comparison really between the 2 of those, and then I'll get into a 10/99 specific question for you.
Kaitlyn Rummel:So I work throughout the year, with their transactions, their daily transactions with their bank account, categorizing their expenses, looking at their income, if they do, like, accounts receivable, that kind of stuff, just making sure that their invoices are all being paid, and sending reports, that kind of stuff. I kind of prepare their books so that Chris can, at the end of the year, do his thing.
John Tripolsky:Makes sense. Makes sense. So so here's the the 10.99 question. Right? So, again, kind of using myself as an example, had a marketing agency for a number of years.
John Tripolsky:We had a couple employees, a lot of contractors. Right? And when I first started off, I just assumed that, you know, we just kinda paid these people ad hoc as the projects came in and projects were delivered, and and that was kind of the end of it. And then this thing, you know, 1099 rolled around in my mind. And it kind of takes you a little bit by surprise.
John Tripolsky:Right? So I know they're kind of walk us through, you know, what exactly these are, But then, you know, we'll get into it a little bit later in the show or feel free to to talk about them at your will. But so let's talk about what they are, but then also if somebody doesn't issue them. You know, what what are the potential issues with that as well as anything else really around it? Kind of approaching this as if nobody knows anything about what a 1099 is.
Kaitlyn Rummel:Okay. So a 1099, the most common one is the 1099 NEC. So that's what I will be referencing here. It's just a way for businesses, to report income, or stuff that they money they paid to either a contractor or another small business for services. There is a tax gap in, income that is reported to the IRS, and this is kind of the IRS's way to capture that income.
Kaitlyn Rummel:Of course they want their money, so they want everyone to pay taxes on the money that they make. So, you want to businesses wanna make sure that they're giving 10.90 nines to, people that perform services for their business. So if they have, like, a graphic design design company they work for, they work with or if they have, like, a landscaper. Both of those are gonna be, issued a 10.99. There are penalties.
Kaitlyn Rummel:All 10 90 nines, whether we're talking about the NEC or any of the other 10 90 nines, they are all due, to be filed by January 31st every year. And if they aren't, there are some penalties in place that you could get.
John Tripolsky:Makes sense. And what are what are those penalties actually? Are they pretty substantial, or are they, you know, just kind of a nuisance? Chris, you probably know that one.
Chris Picciurro:Right. No. They're both John. So yeah. No.
Chris Picciurro:They're both John. They could be they are a nuisance, but they could pile up. You know? And I think that, you know, one of the things excuse me. One of the things that Caitlin pointed out first is that there are several types of 10.90 nines.
Chris Picciurro:Right? We we get them all the time. We get 10.99 INT for your interest, 10.99 DIV dividend, 10.99 b, 10.99 r's for retirement distributions. But it's the the 10.90 nines that caused the most confusion by far are the 1099 NEC. So Caitlin nailed the nailed the nail ah, hit the nail on the head.
Chris Picciurro:That used to and there are 1099 MISC for miscellaneous income, but really that changed a little bit ago where that NEC, so non employee compensation. The penalties are can be significant. There's there's a couple different issues. There are, first of all, there's the the worst penalty would be backup withholding. Right?
Chris Picciurro:So if let's say you paid someone, $10,000 and you didn't issue them a 10.99, well, you can get charged 28% backup withholding. Because essentially the government's saying, well, that's the that's the tax rate we would assume that someone would pay on this, so you're just gonna pay the tax because you're you bozoed around and you didn't get the required information. The the late filing penalties, they range from $50 to $280, per form, depending on you know, it's kinda like speeding ticket, John. If you're going 5 over, it's probably a little less. The way you drive, John, you might be going 50.
Chris Picciurro:No. Actually, very
John Tripolsky:Depends what we're driving here.
Chris Picciurro:You're very safe, strong ever, John. You've got that big diesel so you can't get going too much. But but if you're very negligent, it could be higher. Same thing with, you know, if a business fails to file, those penalties can range, you know, range not only so there's a late filing penalty and then there's a failure to file penalty. So just like in the income tax, there's a late payment or tax penalty and then there's a failure to file.
Chris Picciurro:Those are 50 to $560 per form with the intentional disregard being up to $560 per form. It's very rare that someone have has an intentional disregard. Usually, what we see is there's a they might not understand, but, hence, why we're doing this podcast. Right? They might not understand the reporting requirements.
Chris Picciurro:So there are always, you know, reasonable cause exceptions or there there there might be, yeah, there might be a good reason you didn't issue a 10.99, but that's where bookkeeping and Caitlin and the team at Business and other bookkeepers really come into play. It's it's a good question about penalties, but we wanna do is we wanna prevent the penalties before they happen. So, Caitlin, I'm gonna throw it back to you. What are some of the things that you recommend that you guys implement within your guys your bookkeeping business to identify a problem before it's a problem? Meaning, oh, gosh.
Chris Picciurro:I'm I see a contractor popping up in someone's books. What should someone do to make sure that they could they they collect you know, what do they need, first of all? What kind of information do they need from that contractor? And second of all, what what's best practices for tracking?
Kaitlyn Rummel:So first thing that you wanna do when you start any relationship with a contractor is get a w nine. This is going to give you the information that you need to collect, to file your 10.99 at the end of the year. You wanna make sure that you're getting this from the start so that in January you're not scrambling around trying to get all of the w nines that you need. It's better to have it and then find out that you don't need it.
Chris Picciurro:Well, what are, you know, what are best practices in in how, you know, for tracking how much someone's been paid. So for instance, most business small businesses use QuickBooks online at all of them. You don't you're not required to, obviously. It's a private organization that has that software. But what what are some of the practical tips, especially for someone just starting out?
Chris Picciurro:I mean, let's say someone just starts a you know, starts an ice cream stand, scoops in in at a county fair, and they hire some labor ad hoc. Obviously, we have another podcast episode that talks about labor classification, but let's assume they hire an, a a, a contractor. Best yeah. Best practice for making sure that the amount paid to that person is kept track of?
Kaitlyn Rummel:So I would recommend getting some sort of software. We like to use QuickBooks online. But if your business isn't quite there yet, you could do it manually. Just make sure that you're tracking all of the payments that you're paying to your contractor, and keep on file their w nine so that you have that to reference at the end of the year. Just because you have a contractor doesn't always mean that you will get, file a 1099 for them.
Kaitlyn Rummel:If you pay them under $600 a year, they won't need a 10.99. If they are a corporation, either an s corp or a c corp, they won't need 1. And how you find that out is on that w nine. It will have, a little box checked if they are a corporation, and then you won't have to send them a 10.99. Also go ahead.
Kaitlyn Rummel:No. Also, if you are paying them with a credit card, you won't have to include that, in the amount towards the 10.99. So if you pay them, through your bank or ACH or checks, you will include that, in those transactions. But with a credit card, those are reported on a 10.99 k, so those won't need to be included for the 1099 and c NEC.
Chris Picciurro:Then that is a great point. So if you're and and that's a question we get a lot, you know, in the teaching tax flow community. So as Caitlin said, let's say I paid, you know, John no. I had a birthday party for my for my, son. I hired John to jump out of the cake.
Chris Picciurro:Wouldn't have too many people thrilled about that. Well, let's say we did that.
John Tripolsky:No. They they'd think I was a pinata, and they just try to hit me with a baseball bat
Chris Picciurro:or something. And for some sort of broken I paid John more than $600 to jump out of this cake. Right? That that would be an awful, awful way to spend my money, but let's say I did. I would wanna get John's w nine information.
Chris Picciurro:Well, I guess if it's my kid's birthday party, I wouldn't really issue him with that. Well, let's let's assume it's a corporate event and I'm trying to impress my clients and and John jumps out of the cake. I would want, like Caitlin said, that w nine information, so so important. That's a withholding certification. Just like an employee fills out a w four that tells its employer how much tax to withhold, that w nine is telling the payee or payor rather how much money you know, what are they classified as for business tax business purposes?
Chris Picciurro:So, Kayla and Eilich, you could have an LLC that's taxed as an s or c corp, hence you wouldn't issue a 10.99. Now, unfortunately, the $600 threshold is extremely low. There's some legislation out there to increase that. I think we'd all be happy if that went up. But so but if you meet the $600 threshold, then you then I would have to issue John that 10.99, but if I wanted to make sure I got my Southwest Airline points or Marriott points, oh, I shouldn't have said those 2 because they are not sponsors of this podcast yet, although they should deeply consider that, and I pay with a credit card, then the credit card company actually takes care of that 10.99 with, requirement issues, John, that 10.99 k.
Chris Picciurro:So, Caitlin, that was very helpful, and and good for people to know. You know, it does get kind of tricky when you're paying people with, like, a Venmo or a Stripe app. You know, you've gotta really look at making sure, you know, in general and, Caitlin, you you could speak to this a little more than I can, I'm sure, but that if you know, to determine if if the the third party is going to issue that 10.99 k to the person ultimately getting the payment. So
Kaitlyn Rummel:That's where having those software the bookkeeping software in place really helps out. QuickBooks will automatically, take out those transactions that are made with a credit card and just give you the transactions that count towards the 10.99. So you can easily see how much you're supposed to file that 1099, and QuickBooks will do that for you. With a push of of a button, you gotta go through the steps.
Chris Picciurro:Nice. Well, I want and I wanna clarify some backup withholding's 24% and at 28%. So I apologize. You know, I just wanna give the government more money, I guess. Usually usually, the opposite is what we're trying to accomplish in in teaching tax flow.
Chris Picciurro:But, yeah, I mean, there are I mean, there could be challenges. I I mean, Caitlin, you know, maybe you could speak to some of the challenges common challenges that you see out there with 10 90 nines, but I'll give you an example. What if you had a corp company that was only open 8 months of the year, they close-up shop, they're still obligated to to issue 10.90 nines to people that they paid. And who knows? They may have closed their bank account.
Chris Picciurro:They may have gone, you know, bye bye. We don't know what you know, who knows? So that's any any other things that could be a challenge that, or or tips that you can give people to prevent those challenges?
Kaitlyn Rummel:I think the the best thing is just staying organized throughout the year, and knowing when you're starting that relationship, oh this landscaper I know I'm gonna have to give him a 10.99 at the end of the year. Or, whoever it is, just knowing who they are and having your books in order is, gonna set you up for January being able to do those 10.90 nines. And if you haven't, just go back to your your bank records, your statements. Look at your statements and look at your transactions and do it manually. Make a spreadsheet of each of the contractors' names, and look for the transactions in your statements to find out the numbers.
Chris Picciurro:Well, we've talked about that 1099 NEC. That's the really the focus of this specific, episode. We've talked about when when you issue it. Galen, you know, said that these are due on January 31st, for unincorporated payees that are paid $600 or more. Final thing we we wanted to talk about was the how.
Chris Picciurro:So, you know, do these get mailed in? Do they get submitted electronically? What are the best, you know, best practices? I mean, I'm I'm and, John, you know, in our pre show meeting, made made some cracks about my age. Yes.
Chris Picciurro:I'm a little more mature age than you 2. So back when I first started, we we would have a rent copy, I think, that went to the IRS, and we'd have to mail copies to the to the to the person getting paid and then another copy to the state. So, Caitlin, is there are there options for people to do this electronically versus mail it in? Are there you know, what are
Kaitlyn Rummel:There are. There's many different softwares out there that you can use. Some are mixed in with your bookkeeping software. Like I said, QuickBooks online, you can go through easily. But there's other softwares that you can use outside of QuickBooks, just for 10.99 processing.
Kaitlyn Rummel:And then you pay per per 10 10.99 that you file.
Chris Picciurro:No. I appreciate that. So we've hit the who, rather the what, the when, and how. I mean, we also, I guess maybe one more question for for Caitlin and and then, see if John has anything anything to throw in the mix. But we've got, you know, sometimes you see taxpayers get a notice from the IRS that there's a matching issue.
Chris Picciurro:And sometimes people either could be could be on purpose or could be on accident, give someone the wrong information, wrong Social Security number, and and what happens is a 1099 gets filed with IRS and it doesn't match the records that the IRS has. In that case, yes, Caitlin, have you ever run into a client that has had that situation?
Kaitlyn Rummel:Yes. We have. You're gonna wanna go back to whatever side you're on. You're gonna wanna go back to whoever filed that 10.99. Also, look at your records, and see if there was something, that was missed and if you can narrow down what the difference is.
Kaitlyn Rummel:Go back to who filed it, and once it's resolved, you can do a correction through that same, software that you used to file the first 10.99, and issue the correct amount for the 1099.
John Tripolsky:And that's actually a great point to kinda wrap up with this, right, is sometimes it's not done malicious, neglectful, or people just forgot sometimes, you know, the, the 8 turned into a 0, and then, you know, all the, the chain links don't go together. So I appreciate both of you kinda running through this. So I kinda feel like I was sitting here taking notes. You know, like, I'm in a I'm in a lecture session because it's interesting because Caitlin really, you know, knowing the relationship that you guys have had working with Chris so much in the past, and it's like a, we'll call it a harmonious process. Right?
John Tripolsky:Because, Chris, you guys, you know, you're you're not the ones on the tax side filing 10 90 nines. And, Caitlin, you know, you guys and your team do a fantastic job of of really preparing them. And I wouldn't say out of sight, out of mind, but you guys handle it so well for clients that when it comes time, then, you know, we we won't call it tax season because we don't want Chris's head to, you know, explode on us. We'll call it tax time. When it comes time to collect all those, you guys obviously preparing a well ahead of time.
John Tripolsky:Chris, you're you and your team or your team specifically, you know, you guys have them in place. So there's not really, oh, I wonder if they were done or what are these things. And Caitlin, you went into some really, really good points. I think that a lot of people don't maybe they don't think about. I mean, to be honest, I didn't even know that with the credit card payments, you know, not requiring filings.
John Tripolsky:That was I appreciate that personally. But then also, you know, kind of reiterate what you had mentioned, really just the importance of getting that w nine as early as you possibly can, even if you don't need it. Right? So case in point, you might have somebody that you're bringing on, say you hire them $100 an hour. You got them 2, you know, 2 hours.
John Tripolsky:You know, you're well under that $600 threshold. You're at $200, say. But who knows? You may ramp up and kick into another, contracted project with them later in the year. So it's nice to get that, from the beginning.
John Tripolsky:But then also too from the employee or I shouldn't say the employee, from the company side of things. We don't wanna get into employee classification issues, which is a whole previous podcast, but it almost I would say it puts your best foot forward. Right? Say you begin working with a contractor. You request that w nine from a right out of the gate.
John Tripolsky:It kinda shows that you got your act together. You respect the relationship, and, obviously, it makes your life easier on the on your side, Caitlin. So thank you for thank you for joining us. I I really appreciate it, and I Thanks
Kaitlyn Rummel:for having me.
John Tripolsky:You know, we it's nice to get another voice on here than just me and Chris. You know, he's referencing all the old way of doing things and filing these forms. They probably you know, he probably had a stack of these forms right next to his abacus sitting on his desk too is the way he used to do things. So Well,
Chris Picciurro:I guess but we'll make a bond we'll make a bonfire out of them and make sure that Avis get filed electronically. And and if you have any questions, definitely reach out to us. We can get you connected with Kate Caitlin's all all her information, and business will be in this in this podcast, link and show notes, I should say.
John Tripolsky:Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you both for joining us, and thank you everybody for joining us here as well on the listening side of the podcast. Hopefully, you took some notes from this. And, you know, as mentioned, myself included, we covered a couple things here that you probably didn't know before.
John Tripolsky:But really just harping home, as I always say harping home because it makes absolutely no sense when I say that. I did it about 15 episodes ago, and they called me out on it. So I just make up my own terms here. Obviously, you can't do that figures out of 10.99. So all joking aside, we will see everybody back here next week, same place, different time on the Teaching Tax Flow podcast.
John Tripolsky:Hey, everybody. Thanks for hanging out with us here on this episode as we dove into those 10 90 nines, those pesky little 10 90 nines sometimes, but nevertheless, very important. So Caitlin, thank you again for joining us on this show. Go into some great, great topics, some little components as we could say of those 10.99s that a lot of us maybe not have knew about, I should say, and actually again kind of throwing myself in front of her under the bus, I should say I really didn't know about that with the credit cards. So now I do and hopefully you do as well, but as always, any questions you guys have for us or if you want an introduction to Caitlin and her team, please drop us a line.
John Tripolsky:You can even email us at hello at teaching tax flow dot com or better yet, connect with us on social media on pretty much every platform out there or even easier. Just go to defeating taxes.com. It'll send you directly to our private Facebook group. Go ahead. Join that.
John Tripolsky:This is your invite. Drop us a line through there or just ask any tax questions. Either myself won't be giving any real tax advice. Let's be honest with that. I'm just the marketing guy.
John Tripolsky:But Chris or other thought leaders in that group will will be more than happy to answer your question or connect you with somebody who does. And I guarantee if you have that question, like you always heard back in school, if you have the question, we almost bet that other people have the same one, so don't wait to ask it. Feel comfortable. Ask those questions. Let's do it together.
John Tripolsky:Let's defeat taxes. Sounds very, Viking ish of us, but, anyways, we'll see everybody back here very soon. Keep dropping us those questions, comments, feedback, anything you have. We are here for it, and hopefully y'all are ready for, for tax prep time. So creeping up sooner than you things.
John Tripolsky:See everybody back here very soon.
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