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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of youth sports parenting in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
America, the land of opportunity.
And guess what?
This time I'm talking about soccer.
Not because the path is clear, not because the system makes
any sense, and not because every family knows exactly which club,
which showcase, academy, prep school, or college camp matters.
But because sometimes a kid can take a path that
doesn't look right
and guess what?
It all of a sudden works.
Now, this kid, he plays basketball, he plays golf.
Now a 24-7 soccer household.
He's now touching the ball every day and doesn didn't start when
he was six dribbling nonstop.
Because one of the traps in you soccer is that parents start to believe there
is only one serious route
Specialize early.
Find the elite club, travel farther, pay
for the camp, get into the extra showcase, stay
on the l ladder.
But the Farr family story pushes against all of that.
Don has three sons, three different soccer outcomes,
and no perfect blueprint.
One plays division three
One chooses a big school without college soccer,
and Ryan Farr takes the post-grad route through Northwood Academy,
lands at Stony Brook.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I got to laugh, but I mean,
30 episodesodes down the toilet.
what makes Ryan's story so useful is that it's not a fantasy.
It's not like ignore the system and everything will work out.
Let's be straight here.
It's a lot more direct than that.
There were trade-offs, there were mistouches, as he said.
There were showcases with nobody watching. pressure on
him, recruiting confusion, international player
transfer portal realities, and the question every
parent eventually has to face.
Where can my kid actually play, grow, and
be seen?
So today, we're talking with Don and Ryan Farr
about the college soccer pathway from inside one
family in upstate New York.
We get into high school soccer, prep school
division 1 versus Division 3, ID camps,
recruiting emails for foreign players in college soccer,
and why being a multisort athlete may have helped Ryan more than it hurt them.
And maybe most importantly, we talk about what opportunity really
looks like in American soccer.
Sometimes it's not a clear ladder, and sometimes
it's just a family staying open for a long enough
just to move to the next stage.
This is chasing the game, youth soccer in
America by America.
Wow.
Liron: Don and Ryan,
welcome to Chasing the Game.
what I like about this family story is
that it's not a real clear soccer pathway.
I know Dad, you got three boys,
and you have a representative here
of one of them three different
outcomes, and they're all valid in
their way, and they're all exciting.
So, before we lock into Ryan and Stony
Brook, just give us a little simple
version of the Farr family soccer story.
Don: Yeah, so i think having three boys,
they were all athletic, they liked a
lot of sports when they were growing up.
I sort of steered them away from
football because I had played
football in high school, had a few
injuries, and always liked soccer.
I went to the '94 World Cup had
a lot of friends that played,
played myself a little bit.
So I always felt like I w- you
know, if possible, I'd want them
to, to play soccer and try it out.
And they, they all at a y- pretty young
age kind of, were pretty adept at it.
So we sort of started our, our h- our
soccer journey when the boys were pretty
young and you know, really focused on it.
Matt: to us a little bit about-
when they started to focus, they
were playing other sports, and maybe
Ryan, you can even just jump in here.
When did you realize that soccer
was your w- was, was the sport that
you wanted to primarily focus on?
And I know you were... It sounds like
you're an incredible basketball player.
You're a scratch golfer, so
clearly y- the, the athletic
gene you were gifted with.
But soccer specifically, when did
you fall in love with the game most?
Ryan: Yeah, I would say early on I played
baseball, soccer, basketball, and golf.
So I was a four-sport athlete for a
while growing up, and then I dropped
baseball 'cause it wasn't-- it was a
little boring for me at least personally.
And then soccer and basketball were
kind of the two main ones I would
play and it was difficult because
oftentimes I played soccer in the fall
and the spring and then basketball in
the winter, so during each season I
wouldn't really play the other sport.
So I was constantly kinda losing it
and then getting it back and then it
was difficult to kind of stay on top
of the game when you're constantly
switching sports and switching seasons.
So I'd say probably 11th grade I started
to take soccer, like pretty seriously when
recruiting was kind of a thing and sending
out emails and showcases and stuff, but I
was still playing basketball at the time.
And then as senior year progressed, I
kinda had to either make a decision or
play both, and being only five-eleven
as a point guard, I couldn't really...
D1 basketball wasn't an option, so I was
kind of debating maybe D3 and to do both.
But playing soccer and, you know,
seeing my level, I wanted to see if
I could take it to the higher level.
So, prep school seemed like a
good option to get more exposure.
And that's kind of when I really
truly fell in love with it, was not
really till like almost a year ago.
So, before that I, I, I loved the
sport, but it wasn't like in the
winter I wasn't, I wasn't touching
a ball for maybe three months,
Don: I would say initially basketball
was Ryan's first love, right?
If he was six-three, six-four and
had some opportunities basketball
is such a, a size driven recruiting
process and, and game these days.
So if you don't, you know, you don't
get past that six-foot foot mark
your options are, fairly limited,
especially at the, the D1 level.
And I think as he became a sophomore
junior, you know, it started to
become, he started realizing that he
was not gonna get to that height and
have the opportunities in basketball
that he might have in soccer.
So I think he sort of, naturally
headed in that direction because he
was really driven to, try to play
at a, at a s- at a, a high level,
whatever sport he chose in college.
Liron: I mean, this is mind-blowing.
You're not, you're not this soccer
family, soccer factory, I'm making soccer
players here, watch it on TV, analyze
it, s- and all of a sudden you're still
producing in-in-incredible athletes.
I mean, it's like, what?
Matt, I think, I think we
gotta close the podcast.
This is completely counterintuitive to
everything we've done for 30 episodes.
Don: my older two boys
were very soccer-focused.
They didn't play as many
sports into high school.
Ryan was that one who had that
capability to play multiple sports.
You know, when I look at Evan, who's
my oldest, he's 25 now, he played
at Union College, you know, he was
also a really good soccer player.
And I think the difference was he
wanted to play high school, and our,
our section of New York State playing
high school soccer is sort of a big
deal, high school sports in general.
And so y- you know, it's hard,
I think, to give up high school
to try to go to an academy.
I, I think that's one of the main
challenges that kids have, at least in
our area of, of Albany capital region
of New York, is, "Hey, if, if you wanna
play academy soccer, y- you're not
gonna be able to play high school."
And we, we tend to have very competitive
high school teams around here.
They get into the, you
know, the final four.
The states often win.
The other thing is we don't have
an academy around here, right?
So you have to go down to
Westchester, which is a couple
hours away, or go over to Hartford.
So some of the people that, you
know, we looked around, they were
really sacrificing a lot, right?
To spend, y- you know, a couple hours
driving, you know, to an academy.
And so for us, it's like, "Hey,
what can we do if we continue to
play high school and play the best
soccer we can in the Capital Region?"
And, you know, I think for the, my
oldest, that sort of limited him.
You know, he didn't have the looks
that Ryan had at the Division I level.
I think it was a huge decision
with Ryan to go to prep school
and, and do that post-grad year.
But at the same time, my oldest had
a, a fantastic career in the Liberty
League at, at Union, had a great time,
and, you know, I... We asked him a
couple of times, "Would you like to
go to Oakwood or down to Westchester?"
You know, we're open to trying to
figure out how to do that as a family.
But he came back and said, "Hey, I wanna
play high school. I'm gonna continue
on my team here, and, you know, however
the chips fall, they fall." Right?
And he had a lot of good opport- options.
He had at least 10 or 12 options at the
Division III level in the Northeast,
but, you know, ultimately he didn't,
he didn't get that D1 look, you know.
And I think a lot of times we would go and
spend that money, go to the, the ID camps,
and he would be one of the ones that the
coach would talk to at the end, but it
never really translated into any serious
recruiting at the Division I level.
You know, so I think you have to sort
of, you know, know what you're willing
to do as a family and I think at least
for him it, it was, "Hey, I wanna play
high school soccer and let the chips
fall in terms of the recruiting process."
Matt: You know, it's interesting you
mentioned Oakwood, and I know just
recently Oakwood and Rochester both
pulled out of MLS Next to focus on ECNL.
I don't know all the details, but from
what I could read, it had to do with
the fact that they play in regions of
the country with, Upstate Connecticut,
which I'm pretty familiar with, then
Rochester, where high school soccer is
very, very meaningful, and they were
losing really good quality players who
wanted to play on their high school teams.
your middle son, it sounded like, was
also a really good player, but decided
he wanted to go to a big university
and then not play college soccer, and
then you've got Ryan in Division 1.
Did it ever feel clear to you, even as
your third son came through the process?
And, and, and what did you learn
from going through it three times?
Don: I think every family, every
player, every situation is different,
even within siblings, right?
And so we learned a lot with Evan, but I
think over time, he was an academic kid.
He had some fabulous Division III
opportunities, and then you realize,
I mean, I think one of the things
that parents should think about
is, where can my kid play, right?
Where can my kid have an impact,
especially potentially as a freshman?
And I think, you know, Evan
had a chance to, you know, play
meaningful minutes at Union as a
freshman and, you know, and do well.
I think that it, you, you have to also
realize what can you do as a family?
What are you willing to do, right?
He chose, he had a few good friends
that went to Oakwood, and they
were, changing their class schedules
in high school so that they could
manage the, the three days, two
hours each way to, over to Hartford.
That was something that he realized
that he wasn't willing to do.
So then it became, well, given that,
what's the best, best that I can do?
I, with my middle son, Garrett, it
was nice because pretty early on he
said, I'm a good player." His brothers
even gave him a hard time about,
"Hey, you're good enough to play
college." But he said, "You know what?
I wanna go to Penn State." He
just graduated, last week. "I,
I'm, I'm fine not playing college.
That's not a commitment.
That's not something I wanna
make." And so it was really nice
that he early on decided that.
He continued to play in the same
a- academy program or I guess club-
Locally, yeah ... cl- club program
that the others did, but he made a
decision pretty quickly that he, he
wanted to go to a big school and, and
that's what was gonna be his focus.
Ryan, I think, was, an All-American
high school player, and I thought,
"Hey, he's an All-American. That must
mean that Division I schools are gonna
come clamoring for him." That was not
the case, right, in New York State.
Like, we actually walked out, I remember
the, the day we walked out of a Division
I coach's office at a school that he
wasn't super excited about, and we had
the option to go over to Northwood as a
post-grad, and we got in the car, and I
really didn't know what he was thinking.
And, you know, I'll let him tell the
story, but, he decided ultimately not
to take that Division I opportunity
and, and to go to Northwood.
Ryan: Yeah, I would say, Obviously,
like Division I was my goal and it was a
offer and an opportunity at that level,
but experiencing like high school soccer
and at the club level in our area,
it's, it's a good level but there aren't
really many D1 players in the area.
So having the option at Northwood
was a bunch of guys from overseas,
from different levels of co- of
soccer, whether it was... I mean, we
had maybe five Americans on a roster
of 26 and we ended up with maybe 13
Division I commits in just my class.
Playing at that level with guys in the
ACC and the Big Ten and all these levels
and just kind of experiencing that culture
for a year I think really set me up in
terms of, like my dad said, playing as a
freshman and just kinda coming in ready.
'Cause I feel like coming from high
school, I mean, I was just playing
basketball season, so I wasn't really
even ready for soccer, you know?
So just having a full year of soccer
and just experiencing like what's
a pro-level culture is like kinda
set me up well.
Yeah.
Matt: how much of a, a shock was that
to your system and that level, and
how quickly did you adapt to play
that consistently at that level,
not even having been, quote-unquote,
like a full year-round player?
Ryan: I mean,
for sure.
it was a pretty major shock.
I mean, I was always one of the
better players in my area, probably
the best player in my area.
And even when I went up there, I
was talented and I have certain
assets to my game that a lot
of other guys there don't have.
But a lot of
it for them is they touch the
ball every day, they're on it, and
they're really consistent, and they
have, professional-like mindsets
in the way they go about their day
and the way they play the game.
So just kinda going up there and just
getting on the field with them the first
time was just like, "Wow, this is gonna
be a lot different." It was a lot, it
was a lot faster just the communication,
just the whole level of it was definitely
a step up from what I was experiencing.
And initially, like I had a decent
start, but I mean, I was on the bench
maybe the first five or eight games,
and then from there I, I made my way
into the starting lineup and then was
the second leading scorer at like the
se- second semester I probably scored
15 out of 20 games or something.
So just seeing that progression
and, and really playing with
these guys who are going to these
like big programs was like, wow.
So I mean, that kind of built my
love for the game because you can
kinda see progression really fast
once you're playing in that type
of environment.
Liron: so many notes of things that
we've discussed in theory with coaches
and directors, and just to see this
story solidify in front of our eyes
is so exciting, especially, Ryan,
considering that your journey, right?
This is a, a kind of like a real
American kind of story of, of what
soccer can be and is all about.
you're saying developing a love of
the game at a very kind of late age.
As the recruitment and the college
pressure became more realistic and your
goals became solidified, was it also
then, "Okay, this is the position I
wanna play, this is the kind of player I
wanna be," or you were still discovering
it through that process as well?
Ryan: Yeah, my senior year of high school.
I mean, before that I was kind of
a little bit all over the place.
I think playing basketball really
developed my game as a post up
forward, um, and like using my
body and kind of turning and
twisting and maneuvering that way.
that was one of the main assets
of my game that a lot of players
didn't have, especially at my size.
Most forwards are like 6'4", 6'3", who are
the hold up forwards, but a lot of times
I'm up against, we played at FIU this
year and they have 6'4", 6'5" center backs
and I'm posting them up and nagging them
all game and, um, that's just kind of my
role and kind of what I enjoy out there.
Matt: Tell me if this is true or not,
but it seems like you never thought of
soccer as a job when you were a kid.
And,
Ryan: not at all.
Matt: it's it's hard it's always
hard to generalize, but I think
a lot of these academy kids that
play 10 months a year, it's the
only sport they're playing, they're
playing four nights a week, they're
playing a game or two on the weekend.
But you didn't necessarily lose
ground by not playing every single
season and only focusing on it.
And, uh, you know, may- maybe the,
maybe the outcome would've been
different in that you would've hated
soccer instead of falling in love
and finding your passion for it
Ryan: Yeah, I, I do think back and,
like, at times maybe I could've went to
Northwood a year earlier, and I think
a lot of it that the guys who went
to the big programs up at Northwood
were there for two or three years, and
the coaches saw these guys develop.
So, like, me being only there for a
year, and these coaches see you a certain
number of times and then make a decision,
it's not like, oh, they watch you
play, you have a good game, and they're
gonna invest all this money into you.
So I'd say that was kind of a
thought as well, like even now.
But looking back, I think I did it
exactly how I would like to because I
just loved my high school and my friends
and kinda that whole environment.
So doing the post-grad year was kind of,
the best option for me, to be honest.
Don: You know, I remember calling
the coach, and he, you know, the
coach saying he could play college
basketball, but probably not at
the same level as he could soccer.
And then you realize too, like,
in our area, how do you get this
talented kid visibility, right?
Ryan was definitely skeptical.
He's like, "I don't wanna do that. I
wanna go right from high school into
college." And that's where I think
we came to that, that moment when we
walked out of that coach's office.
We got in the car, and it's like, "Okay,
it's this Division I program or Northwood.
You know, what do you think?"
And he said, "Dad If I don't go
to Northwood, I wouldn't know
what would be possible, right?
Like what kind of opportunities could
be created through a program like that.
I mean, it was pretty obvious that
Northwood was the type of organization
that had many Division I players at
some of the top schools in the country.
And he was actually lucky.
Another funny story was his opportunity
at Northwood to play the nine was
because Georgetown, you know, had
asked one of the nine that was, you
know, his age to go early and play.
And he ended up getting drafted
in the MLS in the top 10.
Liron: Did you find any points
where- soccer people or were
saying to you, "Okay, it's time for
Ryan to only focus on one sport."
Don: because he was such a
strong athlete, you know, the
basketball coaches were fine.
Like I remember one year he was
literally every other week was
basketball, soccer, basketball, soccer.
And both coaches were
okay with that, right?
Maybe it would have been better if
someone was saying, hey, Ryan, if
you really want to do soccer, you
need to go to Northwood earlier.
You need to focus.
But, you know, he, I think if
he had to run it back again,
he'd say, hey, this was great.
Matt: "Oh,
Ryan: you know, you always look back and
say, "I could've done it differently."
I mean, I could've... I watch, I see
some of the guys at the ball, on the
ball even at Stony Brook, um, or even at
Northwood as well, and they've-- you can
just tell how many hours they've spent
on the ball and how natural they are.
Um, so yeah, potentially looking back,
if I would've focused from a really
young age on soccer, I think for sure
I could've been a even better player.
Um, but would, would
I have been burnt out?
Would I have had the
same love for the game?
Would I have had the same experience
socially, um, in Saratoga?
Would I have enjoyed it,
enjoyed my time as much?
I'm not sure.
Um, so I'd say I wouldn't have done it
differently, but there definitely is
certain aspects that, you know, you could
always go back on and change.
Matt: The, the PG year
is fascinating to me too.
I mean, now we're at a place with college
freshmen, especially from, from overseas
who are typically 20, 21, I'd love to
hear a little bit more about that at Stony
Brook and what your roster looks like.
And because it's incredibly difficult
as an 18-year-old to compete with
22-year-olds who've been playing
overseas for four years, right?
Ryan: Yeah,
exactly.
I mean, a few of my best friends this year
are Norwegian kids who are 21 years old,
or 20 turning 21 in September as freshmen.
So, while there's guys who are there
who are 2008s versus 2004s as freshmen,
there's, there's big differences just
as freshmen, even just at Stony Brook.
And I know, I know certain schools
where it's even crazier than that.
So yeah, I'd say the PG year
definitely was huge for me.
I was, I was a late
bloomer physically as well.
So just kinda growing into my body.
I went through puberty late, and I went
from like 5'4" to 5'10" in one year.
And that was like my sophomore
into my junior year, I think.
So just getting used to like being a
bigger kid and, and kind of experiencing
that for an extra year I think
was huge for me.
Liron: just to see that I understood
this clearly, you got a D1 offer,
and you refused that offer, right?
So first of all, why did
you refuse that offer?
What was that dialogue between you
and your dad, if there was one?
And when did you previous to that
realize, "Oh, this is now outside
of New York high school experience."
So sorry, I know it's a two-part question,
Matt: no, and actually I'm
gonna add one more part to it
to make it
Liron: I'm gonna have one more part.
Oh, three parts.
We're very good with
Matt: We're very- A- academics.
We haven't talked anything
about academics yet.
That's a obviously a core part of this.
How does that play into all of this too?
Ryan: I'll start with the academics one.
So that
Liron: great.
Ryan: That's definitely, that's
definitely usually the first questions
a coach asks to you is "Can you
send me over your transcript?" And,
and if it's not what they like to
see, they don't answer you back.
So
Matt: unless you're foreign.
Ryan: That's true.
Then you can maybe...
but I mean, for sure, like I was
saying, it's, it's the first thing
coaches ask you, and it's something
that I've always prioritized.
I think having two older brothers
helped in seeing them do successful
in the classroom, and, and my
parents did a good job pushing us
to s- do well in the classroom.
And I think a lot of coaches on the,
like, club level really push that
because a lot of them know that the
way us players in our area are gonna
make it is through D3, top D3 programs,
which you have to excel in academics.
So in my area it was, it was
definitely, like, pushed upon us to
be good in the classroom so we can
play at the schools we wanna play at.
the D1 offer I had was, I mean, it was
just not a school that I was targeting.
Like there were schools that
I wanted to go to just based
off size or the school itself.
And it was an offer that I had and I was
seriously considering it because I didn't,
I didn't wanna do the route of Northwood.
I didn't wanna do the PG year because
all my friends were going to college.
I wanted to stay on the same
track as all my friends.
I, I didn't really know
what to expect at Northwood.
I had a pretty closed mind, to be
honest, about the whole situation.
I think my dad pushed it upon me
'cause he had a lot of conversations
with Coach Moody and kind of did a
lot more research than me at the time.
And so over time, I just, like I said,
or like my dad said earlier, it was just
kind of, what else can I do with soccer?
I haven't really given it
a full year of attention.
I haven't been at that level
and really seen what I can do.
And also going in as a guy who's
a year older and physically
adept is huge as well.
Don: the stars aligned a little bit.
they also invited Ryan to go to
a tournament out in Las Vegas
before he even made the decision.
And he went out with the guys, he
experienced the team, what the environment
was like, and I think I remember him
coming back from that trip and saying,
"Yeah, this really solidifies that I wanna
go do this." And, I remember going up
there and you're talking to these kids.
It's like, "Where are you from?" "I'm from
Japan, Hong Kong, Chile, Europe-" Bermuda.
"... Bermuda." "W- why are you here?"
"Well, my f- my brother came here."
"Well, w- where's your brother?
What's your brother doing?" "Oh, he's
playing at Stanford." "Oh, he's playing
at Notre Dame." Some of the top programs
in the country, and you're like, "Wow,
this is an hour and a half from us
in Saratoga to Lake Placid." And they
have this program up there with two
teams, a 17 and a 19-year-old team,
with some of the best, high school
age players around, getting, as M-
Ryan mentioned, many, many incredible
opportunities in college soccer.
And the-- it's still, I think, relatively
new, but if you have a, if a kid who's
good enough can go into a program like
that, then especially an American, and
actually do well, the sky's the limit.
And I think the only thing that held
Ryan back, ho- honestly, in my opinion,
from even better opportunities, some
of the top, programs, was that he only
had one year to sort of show these
k- these guys what they could do.
And he had a couple of big coaches
come up to him and say, "I wish
I knew about you last year when
we actually had slots," right?
So, it's interesting too about
when you decide to do it.
I mean, post-grad definitely
opened up opportunities for Ryan.
He ended up with a number of
opportunities after Northwood.
But if he would've gone there sooner
and really focused on soccer, who knows?
Liron: Right.
So I, I wanna take advantage of, of the
fact that this family is-- have a, a D1
and a D3, Matt and I love a two for one.
This is a question for both of you really.
It's On the, on the sibling side,
Ryan, you saw your older brother go
through a D3 process, so I'm sure
you've learned a lot from that,
and I'd be curious to know what.
And for you, uh, Don, as a dad, what
did you see as the main difference
between the D3 and the D1 soccer life?
Don: Um, in a lot of ways
D3 and D1 are very similar.
the one thing you do see is
that on the D1 level, it's, it's
definitely more professionalized.
There's a lot more commitment
and, you know, there's, you know,
situations where you sort of
have to limit your academic load.
You know, if you wanna be an
engineer, et cetera, in a D1 program,
it's, it's much more difficult.
Where in a D3 program you can pretty
much study whatever you want and make
sure that you're, you're focused on,
you know, the academics, which for
most people, that's what really counts.
I loved watching Union play.
I like watching Stony Brook play.
I don't really... As a parent, it,
there's not a lot of, honestly, a lot
of difference, from that perspective.
Your kid's still on the field.
You're still watching them play.
It's competitive soccer, if I'm honest.
Yeah.
Ryan: Yeah, I would say a little
difference that I learned from
him is that in the spring it's
a lot, it's a lot different.
I'd say the fall season in
particular is pretty similar.
That's like the meat of the
season and when the, like, games
are actually played that matter.
I think the spring for us is a little
more commitment in terms of we have
practice pretty much every day.
We lift three times a week.
And I just think it's a little more
year-round than the f- than D3.
But overall, I, I think it's just more
of a level difference than anything.
I would just say it's might be a little
lower level D3 compared to D1 obviously.
But overall, I think the
experience is pretty similar.
Obviously academics might be a little
more prioritized at the D3 schools.
But I think overall it's, it's not as big
of a difference as people might think.
Liron: You know, Don, I, I think I
know the answer to this, but I were
you a hands-on dad for the three kids?
And then are you now able
to finally step back?
Don: So I think that, What's been nice
is, you know, both myself and my wife
Stacy are, big sports nuts, right?
So we've sort of enjoyed the
journey, whatever the journey is.
You know, we really... I, I think
there's nothing as great as watching
your kid play any sport, right?
And you know, I'd much rather watch my,
my son or daughter, play a sport than,
you know, a professional athlete, right?
And when you see them perform on the
field, there's nothing like it, right?
Ryan's got this fantastic photo with
his mother after the Hofstra goal, you
know, that he gave her for Mother's
Day, and it's, you know, it's,
it's just a special moment, right?
So, you know, I think we've
kind of, you know, stayed close.
You know, and that journey sometimes,
though, is, you know, quite tough.
I think I mentioned, you know, my
oldest had a, a, an injury that
really set him back his senior year.
You know, you do have
those moments, right?
When you're like, "Why..." You know,
"Why are we doing this?" 'Cause it
doesn't always work the way you want.
But ultimately, you know, we get so
much joy out of and have so much joy
out of watching them, right, play.
And it's, I, I, I really, I, I think
for you know, US parents, like soccer
parents, you just have to have, you
know, a lot of openness to sort of
go with the flow because you just
don't know what's gonna happen, right?
I, I, I think we had a great athlete
with Ryan who, you know, had a
ton of accolades in high school,
but he, you know, his journey to
Division I soccer wasn't easy, right?
And there was a lot of
sacrifice and, and challenges.
You know, I had another son who
said, "Hey, I don't, I don't wanna
really do that college thing.
I wanna go to Penn State and, you know,
just be a student." And, you know,
we, we... That was actually a relief
because then you're, you're not worried
about, you know, the angst of trying
to figure out where they're gonna go.
And the other thing is some... You
know, so often when you do play
a sport, it really dictates where
you end up going to college, right?
Because you have to kinda combine
where they're wanted at the same
time with the academics and the
other f- you know, elements.
And it's so much easier when it's, it's
just where academically do they wanna
go, and where do they get in, right?
And make a choice.
Matt: And it sound
Liron: like your kid still likes
you, so, great success over here.
Obviously, he's, he's sitting
next to you right now.
Matt: Hey, you got him to do something.
I see my son doing something as well.
This is
Ryan: actually, he's upstairs and he's
like, "Hey, can I join?" You know?
Matt: I don't wanna
Liron: hear this.
Then Ryan's like, "Nah, not happening."
Matt: I have a question for you guys
about the college recruiting process.
I've had the pleasure of getting to know
this guy by the name of Kyle Hagenberger.
He runs the whole college recruiting
process for Albion nationally.
he's just told me that it is just,
there's very little transparency.
It's really hard to understand what
is happening, when it's happening, why
it's happening, and just be prepared
for the unknown is what he said,
and it's not a process that you can
actually control yourself, but there's
so much you need to do to be out in
front of it, What can you share about
what you guys learned in the process?
Ryan: I think being at
Northwood I learned a lot.
I think John Moody, the guy up there,
has a lot of experience with recruiting
and kind of what works and what doesn't.
And one thing that he mentioned a lot
that works well is just kinda emailing
as many schools as possible and gaining
as many connections as possible, even if
you maybe don't wanna go to the school.
Because getting offers and getting
opportunities allows for other
offers and other opportunities.
So before tournaments, you wanna
maybe say something specific about
the school in the email to feel like
you did a little bit of research.
And you can send out a mass list of emails
to coaches days in advance of showcases.
And, and one thing at Northwood that
really made me go there was when I went
to the showcase tournament in Las Vegas,
there's 20 college coaches lining the
sideline of all the top universities.
Whereas playing with my old club,
these coaches were on the list to
come to the games, but they're all
on the field watching Northwood play.
They were all on the field
watching the top programs play.
So just kinda having them on your
field watching you play is important,
Don: You don't realize how elite, elite
is until You're in New Hampshire in
February and there's eight prep schools
on one field and 50 college coaches,
including, all the ACC schools, et
cetera, just watching this one field.
And it wasn't even a full field,
it was 9v9 in the middle of
February, and they had to cancel
the second day because of the snow.
And you're like, all these coaches
from around the country made their way
up to that showcase with only eight
teams, and they were all prep school
teams, and they had the caliber of
talent that these guys wanted to see.
And if your, if your p- son or
daughter's on that field, they're
gonna have an opportunity to
showcase, like no other place.
And I, I didn't realize until
you're in that situation, what...
there's, there are these places where
they have that kind of exposure.
Liron: you had showcases where
you felt like, "Oh, this is a
complete waste of time and energy"?
And I, let's... 'Cause we-- I mean, I, I
know that there were, and I wanna know it.
Tell us a little bit about that and
Matt: knows- Liron, see,
you do ask good questions.
I was just waiting.
We're like-- We're an hour into
this, so at least we're there.
Liron: my wife this question for me.
Ryan: No, I'd say mostly on like New York
Elite, I would say I'd say as I got older,
I started to realize that like the process
of going to these showcases and playing in
these games is almost more important than
just the coaches being there watching,
'cause you're just getting better.
But being at Elite there was
tournaments where I would write all
these college coaches and then I'm
out there on the field and I score a
goal and I'm just trying to see who's
watching and there's no one watching.
Liron: So you're looking,
you're looking, you're aware of
Ryan: yeah, I'm trying to see
who's watching 'cause like it's,
as players there are people who
don't, don't wanna look because
it, it, it makes you feel pressure.
And I'd say the first couple showcases
at Northwood that I played in You know,
I felt a lot of pressure 'cause being
at, at New York Elite, I didn't really
have coaches coming to watch me play.
So it was kind of new looking at the
sideline and seeing all these logos
and labels that you see on TV, and you
wanna go to these schools and, and, you
know, you get there and then it's like
you, you're more focused on that in your
head than the actual, the game itself.
And, you know, kind of having experience
with that and as it came into the
spring of my post-grad year, I kind
of learned how to deal with that and
kind of focus on the game and play.
So even my post-grad year was difficult.
Like as the year went on, I, you
know, built into it and got better.
But it wasn't always easy.
Liron: did you have someone
to mentor you how to showcase?
Ryan: That taught me how
Don: to showcase, um, like as in...
Liron: like
Matt: worry, he,
Liron: tells you how to
Matt: Liron is still, he's
still learning English.
I mean, does he mean...
What do you mean, Liron?
Is he, is it,
Liron: like a showcase
is a unique thing, right?
It's like, uh, my son was at
the, uh, at the US Talent ID.
So you start to hear people speak and
they're like, "Well, you only get five
minutes, and in those five minutes,
don't play your game. Play another
game because they're only looking
at you at a certain amount of way."
And
Matt: That's such a good... That is a
Don: No, that is, that's a good question.
I, I'd say... Yeah,
Liron: No, I know it's a good question.
I don't
Ryan: it was
Matt: Let me tell you this for you guys.
Liron: I have a podcast
Ryan: It was... I didn't understand.
No, it's a good question.
I'd say yeah, I'd say a lot of it
is like body language and kind of
just being overly excited and kind
of just communication out there.
Like a lot of the things that
don't involve the soccer ball are
kind of what's most important.
the soccer ball matters a lot, but how
you're initially gonna get your eyes from
these coaches is maybe stepping up as a
leader, saying something or like there's
different moments that you can do that.
I think coaches appreciate when
you walk up to them at showcases
and tell them you're interested.
Like there's different things you can do.
But I would say, yeah, like just
communication and body language out
there are a huge place to start.
Don: Yeah, I, I think the
other thing we've learned is,
We had some people we knew who were
coaches and, had some connections
and you, you, you realize, hey, if
you reach out to certain people that
sort of behind the scenes, if they
believe in your, your son or daughter's
capability and they have a relationship
with you, they can help out, right?
They can, they can put in a good word.
There was this Stony Brook assistant who,
wasn't with the program but knew Ryan a
little bit and, I reached out and said,
"Hey, Ryan's interested in, in Stony
Brook. Can you, put in a good word?" And
he did, and it made a difference, right?
And so I think these coaches are-- have
a lot of players to consider, right?
And they're trying to shape their rosters.
They've got a lot of
international players.
They have kids coming out of the portal.
They have some high school kids, and
they're trying to put it all together.
And, and a lot of it too,
honestly, is, the economics of it.
I mean, it's not, it's not...
Ryan went to Stony Brook.
Hey, it's a state school.
We're in, we're in New York State, right?
That makes a difference.
He had some other programs where they were
willing to give him nice scholarships, but
even with the scholarship, the cost of,
going to those schools was high, right?
And as a family, you have
to make those decisions.
So you might be recruited to a
school, you might even get, s- a-
a- athletic money, but maybe it's
not enough to make it affordable.
So there's a, there's a lot to it in
Liron: No, we didn't even talk about that.
Of course we always assume that,
okay, you're, you're top kid, you're
gonna get merit and, and enough
to have a run through college,
but that's actually not the case.
Don: No, I mean, in a lot
of situations it's not.
I mean, it's interesting or oldest,
as he looked at Division III,
two of the schools offered merit.
He was a good student, so he got
really nice packages for merit.
There was a school that,
he was interested in.
There was no merit, so
it was sort of full pay.
And then you're looking at these three
schools, they're all liberal arts, and
you're saying, "Hey, do I wanna pay,
X, much higher for one school versus,
the other schools and, what they're
able to, to give you?" So you n- you
need to understand the financials,
where, where, any sort of merit or
athletic money's gonna come from.
If it comes your way, what does that
mean for you, honestly, as a family?
Ryan: Yeah, and for me, coming
in, I, I wasn't like a highly
regarded recruit to Stony Brook.
So, initially it was just kind of what
the what the price of the school was
as an in-state, which was pretty good.
But he kinda just said, "As you play and,
like, perform, that'll base, like, each
meeting we can talk and talk finances."
So after the fall, like, that
helped a lot, which was great.
And I think like, you go to these
schools and they can say a certain
thing at the beginning, but if you
perform like, there's kinda no other
option, 'cause then you can just say,
you can always transfer if they don't.
So, like...
Don: yeah, and I think honestly
for U.S. Players they wanna see
you perform on the field before
they're gonna throw dollars at you.
Unless you're an absolute elite
recruit at, the very, very top
schools, for the most part,
they're looking for performance.
They're gonna throw some dollars maybe
at European kids or, or, or transfers
because they know they're a little bit
more proven, and ultimately their jobs
are on the line if, if you don't perform
and the team doesn't perform, right?
So they have limited resources.
They've gotta put that where they feel
that they can get the best performance.
And, I'll say this for Ry- like,
I think Ryan was a really capable
player who performed, really well and
surprised a lot of people at Stony Brook
Liron: Yeah, I mean, for, for the,
for the sake of our of a friend of the
podcast director Tom Bowen from Long
Island Soccer Club, who is involved
with a school named Hofstra, tell us
a little bit of, just a little bit
about that, that goal, how it felt.
Ryan: it was great ' cause we, We had lost
twice to Hofstra in the regular season.
The second game we played versus
them was at home, and we were up
2-1 with four minutes left, and
then they scored two late goals.
And we had, like, a big crowd
that game, and, and it kind of
pushed us down in the rankings.
And then we played them in the CAA
semifinals, and they were, I think,
maybe top 20 in the country, and they
kind of had solidified themself a bid.
But they had won, I think, the CAA
four years in a row, and we were
down 1-0, and then they got a kind
of a soft red card, to be honest
with like 12, 13 minutes left.
And then we scored like a cross from
our right back over into the box, and
then it was 1-1, and then 30 seconds
later, I scored a diving header with
like 10 minutes left to make it 2-1.
And it was a great feeling, honestly,
'cause Hofstra, Stony Brook is like
our biggest rivalry, and it's can
you make Long Island red or blue?
And it's always a big game for
us, so, it was a great feeling.
We were super excited to knock them
off and obviously the finals didn't
go how we were expecting or wanted it
to go, but we have a similar, similar
core guys coming back next year, and
I think, I think we could make a good
run at it again, so.
Liron: What a, what a soccer story.
Oh, Matt,
Matt: shirt, a shirt
Liron: did you, uh-- have you, you figured
out your celebration ahead of time?
You're like, uh, you, you had like
Ryan: Yeah, I usually do the Ronaldo
Liron: that said, "Thank you, Dad"?
Was there like a-- Did you do that?
Ryan: I- I've usually-- I've been doing
it for like three or four years now.
I do the siu every time, the Ronaldo
SIUUU, even though I like Messi better.
I don't know why.
Just, I just like Ronaldo's celebration.
Matt: so what are... You just said you're
coming off an incredible freshman year.
Liron: Yeah.
Bravo.
Matt: Yeah, really, I
mean, congratulations.
And you clearly are not a kid
who's gonna settle for for
coming off a great freshman year.
I'm sure you're working really hard.
What are your aspirations?
Ryan: Yeah, I would just say, like, having
success makes you wanna have more success.
And obviously, like, I don't know.
Honestly, I wasn't really expecting
to have the year I had 'cause
I didn't really know what to
expect going into Stony Brook.
I'd say playing with the guys at Northwood
did, did set me up for that, though.
Playing with all those Division
I guys and then coming to
Stony Brook that helped me out.
But going into next year I've kinda
think solidified myself as potential
guy to play the nine and, and obviously
will put work in the summer to make
sure that's my role on the team.
But going into next year, I just wanna
be, you know, hopefully the leading
scorer in the CAA and try and, try and
really play a big role and a big part
on our team to go as far as we can.
I don't really think too much
beyond that in terms of pro
soccer or anything like that.
I try and just take it step by step.
But yeah, I'd say just going
into next year I'm really driven
to have a, have a big year.
Don: I'm trying to get Ryan to realize,
" Hey, there's, you know, if you work at
this, there's something out, there out
there for you." But I think for a lot
of American kids, it's, "Hey, soccer,"
unlike maybe some other cultures,
"is not their whole life," right?
And so, it, it, it's hard
because they're trying to do a
lot of things in life, right?
He still wants to play golf this
summer and, do other things and
have fun and, where there's other
kids who are so focused on soccer,
it's like a 24 by 7, like you were
mentioning, their whole lives.
So it's sort of, kind of, how
do you kinda handle things on a
professional level, like this summer?
What's your, your goals,
physically and, and how are
you gonna continue to work out?
What are you gonna be
doing with the USL2 team?
and, connect to that aspiration
and see what can happen.
Liron: So Ryan, so much
for your dad letting go.
Matt: ahead.
He's letting go.
He's just guiding.
He's done an incredible job.
I mean, listen, m- I, I, I feel like, I
feel like 95% of kids who are just coming
off of the season that Ryan had probably
would've said like, "I wanna be a pro,"
but he's thinking about, one week at a
time or one season at a time, and then I'm
sure he can put it into overdrive if that,
if, if that possibility is there, right?
If you can start to see it.
I mean, we, we've talked a lot on this pod
about how We feel like there's a there's
something that happens to American kids
at 14 or 15 when they realize that they
may be really good, but they may not
be quite good enough to go play in the
Prem, for example, or in La Liga, and
that vision of being a pro goes away.
And then it's like they lock into college,
like, "Okay, great. Well, I'm gonna go
play college soccer," which is also a
great, amazing outcome, which happens
for very few percentage of the kids.
But it's also refreshing to hear
what Ryan is saying, which is, "Hey,
you know, I've come into this fairly
late as far as, like, focusing
on it exclusively, and let's see.
Let's roll the dice, right?
And keep working hard
and see where this goes."
Ryan: Exactly.
Yeah, I don't
think I've never been like, "I wanna
go do this down the line. I'm gonna
do everything in my power to do it."
I kinda just kinda go with the flow,
take it step by step, and focus on
the summer so I can have a good fall
next year.
Matt: What is the biggest myth parents
believe about college soccer recruiting?
Don: sending a lot of emails is
gonna get them an opportunity.
Ryan: It's kinda
counterintuitive to what I said,
Don: but
Liron: asking your dad.
Matt: Well, no.
I mean, look, I, I think there's a
nuance to the way you both answered
it, which is send the emails, but then
realize when you don't hear from them,
then take them off the list, right?
So I, I think you, I, I think
you guys both got it, just
in a slightly different way.
Don: Yeah.
Liron: No, is there anything that you
think that parents usually oversee or miss
Don: see a lot of people talk about,
overseas, number of touches and play
less games and, focus on training and
the ability to, to control the ball.
I think to Ryan's point, like because he
was a multi-sport athlete, if he focused
only on soccer, maybe his, ball skills
would've even improved that much more.
I know he, he feels like he made a huge
improvement when he went to Northwood
and he was just focused on soccer.
So I think that, it, you... It's
not about scoring a goal in a
game when you're U7, U10, U15.
A lot of it is really about that ability
to command the ball and focusing on
the training associated with that.
Matt: Thing one thing parents
should stop paying for too quickly?
Don: You know, you get these invites,
all three of my kids really, but, but
my-- the two that played college, like
they would be out of 50 or 60 kids,
that three or four that they would
talk to at the end of the year, at
the end of the, the ID camp, but it
never really led to anything, right?
So i-i- ID camps are really, unless you're
being recruited and they truly wanna
see you play, you know, I think most of
them are, are, often a waste of money.
Ryan: Yeah.
I'd say if you talk to the school before
the ID camp, then it, it might be worth it
if you have like real conversations with
them about you being in their program.
But if it's kind of a general broad email,
Then don't.
Matt: just a follow-up to that, when did
you actually start going to ID camps?
Is it before your junior year,
before your sophomore year?
Ryan: I went to only three in
total to a URI one, a UNH one,
Wesleyan ... and Wesleyan, a D3 school.
I went to, I think all three of
them my junior-- after my summer
junior year before Northwood.
And, and with all those schools, I
did have some prior communication with
the coaches and I think that helped.
Don: And I would say with my oldest,
we went to a lot more than that,
and, ultimately, I would say we
didn't go-- for the three schools
that he's being recruited primarily
we didn't go to their ID camps.
So I, I think ID camps are a tricky one.
Matt: Yeah.
Don: It really comes down to have you had
communication with the coach to, and even
like a conversation with the coach, and
is it an opportunity for them to see you
play?
Ryan: I think certain schools use it
as a money money grab, and certain
schools use it as a recruiting tactic.
It just kinda
depends on the school.
Liron: Guys, what, what
a pleasure this was.
Don, thank you so much for reaching out.
I'm, I'm surprised you still listen to
the podcast after all three kids are
out of the house, but you know what?
What can I say?
Matt: Well, now he's
got time and it's PTSD
Liron: Now you miss it.
Yes.
You're from upstate New York.
Give me the wow.
I am not from upstate New York, but I did go to school in upstate New York.
Wow.
The practical takeaway from Don and Ryan is that parents
should be careful with one path thinking.
Because this story is not saying specialization is wrong.
It's not saying showcases do not matter
It's not saying prep school is the answer for everyone.
It is saying the answer depends on the players., the
family, the timing, the finances, the school,
the level, and the opportunity in front of you.
Yeah, one of Ryan's lines that kind of frames
this episode, and there's so many of them, but when he looks back and says
would I have been burnt out?
Would I have had the same love for the game?
I'm not sure.
And this is when we were pushing him.
Did he start to play too late?
And this is what what parents need to sit with because we always
wonder what would have happened if our kids did more earlier, more
training, more touches, more travel, more focus
But the harder question is, would they still love the game at
a later age?
Yeah, and Don does a wonderful job, I think, giving parents
another very clear way to think about the process.
He says, you have to have a lot of openness to go
with the flow. because you just don't know what's going to happen
That may be the most honest recruiting advice there is.
You can prepare, you can send the emails,
you can send the videos, you can go to the right events,
you can ask good questions.
In fact, you cannot control the process at all.
And then we learned about something I've never heard of, which is post-grad
program and Northwood.
And this is another opportunity.
It's It's an opportunity for exposure, opportunity being
at the right field when the right coaches are actually watching
Opportunity is walking into a faster, sharper, more international
environment, and realizing that the game is bigger than
the place you grew up in.
And this is in Lake Placid, New York.
Who knew?
Beautiful.
But Don also gives us a warning parent shit here.
On ID camps, he says, unless you're being recruited and
they truly want to see you play
most of them are often not the best use of time.
That is useful.
His parents get invited Players get invited.
Camps shoot showcases, clinics, emails that
sound personal, but are really broad.
And this episode makes the distinction.
Exposure matters.
The right exposure matters the most.
And another line of when Don says
I'd much rather watch my son or daughter play a
sport in a professional athlete, and it's just,
it fills my heart.
This is a family.
It's a story, a day. dad, a mom, three boys, different paths,
different outcomes, a lot of driving, guessing, adjusting, hoping.
And somehow, they came out of all of it with this perspective.
I mean, Ryan, what what a great kid with a bright future
still does not talk like someone who thinks the story is
remotely close to being finished.
He talks about the next step.
He's not looking too far ahead.
That is a good reminder for us parents too..
The goal is not just to find the path, is to keep learning
once the path opens.
Yeah, I'm a massive thanks to Don and Ryan Farr
for sharing their story so openly
and they if this episode helped you think differently about
recruiting prep school, multisport athletes and
your own player path, share it with another parent, family, or team chat.
I know I've learned a lot, so, and I know
a lot more than most of you guys, so you must have learned something here.
No?
This is chasing the game, Youth soccer in America by maths.
Goodbye, Laure.