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Welcome to Untethered Consciousness, hosted by Rod Bland, where we share stories and insights to help you answer the most fundamental of questions: Who am I?
Through the conversations that we have with our guests, we aim to help you reach your own conclusions about the nature of our existence.
Father Nathan Castle: It was
before we had televisions on
walls, but it was like that,
and it got right up close to
me, and inside the picture
frame, something like a video
played of a car from the late
1950s, the kind with lots of
chrome and fins on the back.
There was a young man sitting
on the radiator of it with
the hood open, and he had not
been in a collision, but for
some reason, he burst into
flames on the engine of a car
and was screaming as he died.
Rod Bland: My guest today is
Father Nathan Castle, who's
a Catholic priest of the
Dominican order and author of
several books, including the
one I'm reading now, which
is Afterlife Interrupted,
Helping Stuck Souls Crossover.
Father Nathan, welcome
and thank you so much
for coming on the show.
Father Nathan Castle:
Great to be with you.
Thanks for inviting me.
Rod Bland: All right it's
fun actually, I'm really
enjoying reading your book.
And what I'd like to do is to
start with your early years.
Can you tell us a bit
about what it was like
growing up for you to the
point where you decided to
study to become a priest?
Father Nathan Castle: Sure.
I'm I'm 67 years old.
I was born in 56 and I'm
from Southeast Texas,
right on the Gulf coast.
My parents are Catholic
folk and my dad had two
siblings, two sisters who
both became Dominican nuns
and first grade teachers.
My mom was a great woman.
She and she was not only a
religious person, but you know
how some people say they're
spiritual, not religious.
She was both and she really
taught me how to move in the
spirit, how to pray and talk
to the saints and so on.
So I was raised in Catholic
faith that was not just about
rules and regulations, but
was really very spiritually
grounding from the beginning.
And part of that comes into
this conversation about
the afterlife and souls
and so on, is that I was
taught very early on that
we were all kind of dual
citizens of earth and heaven.
That by our nature,
we are God's children.
We belong to God.
We're here for a while
on the earth and after
our deaths, we'll go home
to our heavenly home.
I was taught that
when people die we can
pray for their good.
We can help them advance
or progress or something.
And so I went to sleep
most nights doing that.
So I've been at this
for really 60 years,
Rod Bland: All right.
Father Nathan Castle:
more than that.
Rod Bland: That's a long time
to be praying for people.
It takes, that's a
lot of commitment.
It's something you just said
then about knowing that.
No, it wasn't knowing,
it was that we're dual
citizens in, here on
earth and also in heaven.
It's one of those things
that's, even though I've
not, don't have direct
experience of that, it's one
of those things that I've
always felt like was true.
Some things you just have
a inner knowing about them
and that's always been the
basis for my fascination in
anything that's not to do with
our actual physical reality.
Father Nathan Castle: I had
a really good advantage,
a nice head start, but you
know how, have you ever been
around little kids that are
fascinated with dinosaurs?
Rod Bland: Oh yes, I have
a nephew who is autistic
who is very fascinated
with dinosaurs, yeah.
Father Nathan Castle: That
I'm much older than wherever
the, however that got started.
But in my childhood,
I was fascinated with
pirates and I had a record
player and a little book
that had pictures and
I couldn't even, before
I could read, I could
play the records.
The records lived
inside little sleeves
inside the book.
it was Peter Pan and
that involves pirates.
And there was a picture of an
island with a should like you
live in the South Pacific, an
island with a palm tree and it
had a broken boat and a crab
and a dotted line with an X.
Well, of course, kids learn
early on that a dotted line
and an X on a map means that's
where the treasure's buried.
My mom taught me how to make
the sign of the cross that
Catholics do, where we touch
our forehead, our heart, and
shoulder to shoulder, making
a cross over ourselves.
And she said, she asked,
what letter does that make?
When I was still
learning the alphabet.
She wanted me to say X.
And she said, yes, X marks the
spot, and right in the middle
is your heart, and that's all
you have to do is knock on the
door of your heart because the
treasure is buried inside you.
God, who created you,
placed himself inside you.
And if you want to talk
to God, you just make
the sign of the cross.
You knock on the
door and you talk.
You just say, God, I
want to talk to you.
So I was doing that
really early on.
Rod Bland: Interesting.
And at what point obviously
growing up in a Catholic
family and surrounded by
those of that faith, was that
sort of what made you decide,
okay, I'm going to become a
priest or did that come later?
Father Nathan Castle:
It did come later.
I went off to college
and studied sociology.
And, my parents raised me
with the idea that I be
anything I put my mind to.
Did you grow up that way?
Rod Bland: I did, yeah,
I grew up in the bush
in Western Australia.
We were miles and miles from
any other person and you had
to become so self reliance
and doing, being able to do,
to put to any challenge, to
take on any challenge was
something that we learned
from a very early age, yes.
Father Nathan Castle: My
parents didn't go to college.
They were, they graduated
high school in, I think
1939, just on the cusp
of the Second World War,
and they didn't have that
advantage, but they made sure
that their five children all
had a college savings fund
the first week of our lives.
I think my dad went from the
delivery room to the bank
and created a college fund.
So I just knew very early on
that I would go to college
and I would become something.
And they instilled in me that
I could become just about
anything that I wanted to be.
But once I was in college,
I had a spiritual experience
at 18 right before leaving
home to go off to college
that persuaded me if I
needed any persuading that
it was all real and that
God was near me, loved
me, was paying attention.
And I began to think this
is the most important
thing that I could think of
spending my life on, but it
was really after college,
four years later, that I
really had to get serious
about the specifics of it.
Would I stay Catholic?
For one thing, I went to
a Presbyterian college.
Many of my friends
were not Catholics.
But anyway, I did decide
to try out the Catholic
system and I ended
up sticking around.
It'll be 44 years next week
that I joined the Dominicans.
Rod Bland: Wow.
The spiritual experience
that you spoke of then,
would you mind sharing a
little bit more about that?
Was that the one where
you were with your friend
and you were seated
Father Nathan Castle:
At the Grand Canyon.
Rod Bland: Yeah, at
Father Nathan Castle: No, it
was even earlier than that.
I had I, I grew up in a
household of five kids.
I was the middle it was
a busy household and
I grew up without feeling
like I knew my dad at all,
even though he was there,
but he worked really hard.
He had, he worked on
ships and was asleep
in the daytime a lot.
And anyway he and I just
didn't mesh somehow.
And my older brother and
he had a very strong bond,
and I just felt that's
just the way it was.
There wasn't anything
to be done about it.
And right before going off
to college, I was invited
to go on a retreat at a
Catholic college campus
center near my home.
I didn't want to go, but I was
not exactly forced into it.
Pretty close.
A lot of my friends were
going, and I capitulated
and went on it.
And I thought it would
be about prayers,
sacraments, commandments.
I'd been Catholic all
my life, so I figured as
long as we stay to those
things, I'll be fine.
But when we got there, the
people leading it said, the
theme this weekend is what do
you think about your parents?
I was really angry at my
father and hadn't spoken
to him in about five years
other than pleasantries.
I was not impolite.
I just shut down.
He hurt me and I nursed a
grudge and I I just, you know,
it's not that uncommon for
teenagers and parents to have
a difficult time communicating
and I just closed down inside.
And then on this retreat
they asked us and people
started telling the truth
and I had never seen
that depth of sharing.
Have you been in groups
where people talk uninhibited
about their personal lives?
Rod Bland: Yeah, I actually
have a very similar
story to the one I think
you're about to tell.
But,
Father Nathan Castle: These
people who looked as just
to be as ordinary as could
be started talking once
they knew that they had the
full attention of others
and compassionate listeners
And tell their stories.
And so when it was my
turn, I told my story about
how my dad had hurt me.
It was all over report cards.
I had our Catholic school
closed when I was going
into the eighth grade,
which it was in a K through
eight school and it just
blew what it blew up.
It went away and I lost my
whole community that I'd
had since kindergarten.
And I was, I felt thrown into
a school of 900 kids that
were always saying the F bomb.
I thought they were
talking about forks.
And I didn't forks are
pointy and I thought maybe
they're talking about
jabbing somebody with a fork.
They're so angry and they
talk about forking you.
And I didn't know why
they were so angry,
but I came home.
I was, I had my growth spurt
later than most kids did.
And I couldn't climb a rope to
the top of a gym in a physical
ed class and I got a B in
PE, A's in everything else.
And I came home on report card
day, and my dad just said,
is report card day in it?
And I said, yes, sir, it is.
And he said let me show you.
And he flipped past five A's
to a B in PE, and all he said
was, what happened in PE?
And on the outside, I said,
I couldn't climb a rope.
And on the inside,
I said, fork you.
And I went to my room and
sat on the edge of my bed
and just shook and made
the tears run on down
the inside of my cheeks
In Texas, big boys don't cry.
And so I just, I was
just furious and angry
and wanted to run away.
And I decided, you
know what I'll do?
I have to stay here
five more years.
I'll be so perfect, they
won't need to parent me.
I had two brothers and
two sisters, and I thought
they're very busy people.
If I just never give them
a reason to pay me any
attention, that'll be my plan.
And I pretty much did that,
and I had a little brother
who obliged by needing a
lot of parental attention.
it was working just fine
until I went on this
retreat, like a month, two
months before graduating
and going off to college.
This thing opened me up,
and I told the truth.
And I said, I need to talk to
my dad and I don't know how.
I don't want to leave his
home in what I felt was pretty
much a once and for all event.
I knew that I'd only
come home as a visitor
and that was true.
So I just thought this
was a life moment that
needed to be done right.
And I tell these people
that and I said, I
don't know how to do it,
but I know I need to.
Anyway, they brought in a
priest and said, anybody
want to go to confession?
And I hadn't done that
in years, but I already
did the hard part, all
I have to do is repeat
it and shorten it a bit.
And the priest gave me
absolution and I went
to communion at the mass
that concluded this thing.
And when I went to
communion, I had my
own private Pentecost.
People call it
different things.
Kundalini Awakening
or whatever.
I had all this energy that
just flowed through me.
I felt loved.
I went to sit down and my body
quaked and my hands heated up.
I started crying real
tears on the outside of my
face and I felt like I was
starting life all over again.
And it stayed with me.
I went home and that
was about a half an
hour, 40 minute drive.
And when I got home, I
sat on the edge of my bed.
I'm an 18 year old.
I woke my dad up, which
was one of the rules
of the household that
you'd never to do.
And I just thought if I
don't do it right now,
I might lose my nerve.
So I woke him up,
which was difficult.
And I outlined that
in my first book.
My first book is on
the wizard of eyes.
You might, I don't know
if you can, it's dark over
my shoulder, but it's on,
there's a picture of it
on the wall behind me.
And in that book, I described
this event and that I woke
him up and had a heart to
heart with him and told
him why I was so angry and
that I asked if he knew I'd
quit talking to him and he
said, yeah, I just didn't
know what to do about it.
Which was extraordinary for
him because he was a big manly
man who never admitted defeat.
And for him to say, I didn't
know what to do about it was
really humble and truthful.
And so we had a conversation
that and I told him I loved
him and actually all the way
at the end of his life he
died of Parkinson's disease
and was in dementia for
probably two years at the end.
And the week after his death
he, he told me, whatever you
did that day, do more of it.
It's really important.
Rod Bland: He was referring
to when you spoke to him
when you were 18 years old.
Father Nathan Castle: Exactly.
And he was, I was, I
think I was 53 or 4 at
the time of his death, but
he said, whatever you did
that day, do more of it.
It's really important.
So anyway, that just made
me, all that happened in a
Catholic religious setting.
And so it just made me think
there's more here than I
have paid attention to.
I'm going to, I'm going
to pay more attention.
And then one thing
led to another.
And then four years later,
I was entering a seminary.
Rod Bland: yeah.
I grew up in a a very, not
a religious background, so I
may ask questions that seem
obvious but I'm eternally
curious about all religious
faiths, all kinds of people,
so that's what I, that's
Father Nathan Castle:
Fire away, that's
why we're together.
I'm, I'll answer any
question you ask me.
Rod Bland: How does the
process work, so obviously
going to college is part of
that, getting a degree and
then to the, how did things
evolve after that, I guess
you would have joined the
priesthood at some point
in time and then when did
something occur where you
have, this current work that
you're doing with Helping
Stuck Souls, when was the
first inclination that
something was going on there?
Father Nathan Castle: By
that time, I was ordained a
Catholic priest when I was
29, and by that time, I was,
I've been in campus
ministry most of my life,
especially after having
that powerful experience
at a Catholic campus center
for college students.
That's what I've done.
I'm at the University of
Arizona in Tucson, and school
is just starting next week.
I don't, I'm not employed
here, but I'm still living
on a college campus.
That's been my life.
And I was at Arizona State
University, which has
about, at the time, it had
about 50, 000 students.
It was a very big job and
I was on a retreat with a
number of people in the...
In Arizona, we're a desert
and it's hot but if you go
north, it's mountainous and
it's, it gets cooler as you
go to the higher elevations.
We were up at a, we were on a
retreat and I was the, I was
helping to give the retreat.
But I was asleep on a
Friday night when we
had just gotten there.
And in the middle of the
night, I had a dream that
was, I was playing golf
with another priest and we
were finishing the round.
Do you know the
phrase, the 19th hole?
Rod Bland: I have heard of
it, yes, where you go to have
Father Nathan Castle:
It's the bar.
It's where you go have
drinks after a round of golf.
Golf is 18 holes.
The 19th is the bar.
We went into the 19th hole.
And in the dream we walked
into a silent auction.
Are you familiar with those?
Rod Bland: Yes I am.
So you, there's nobody's
putting their hands up.
It's all written down.
Father Nathan Castle: yeah,
it's mostly you walk around
the room and there are objects
lying on tables or whatever,
and there's a sheet next
to it, and you're having
cocktails or something,
and you walk around, and
you bid on objects, and if
you're really interested
in something, you have to
keep going back and checking
it because somebody else
might be overbidding you.
Anyway, I was at this
silent auction and I looked
across the room and saw
this ghastly piece of art
on the wall, and to my
partner I said, look at that
god awful thing, who would
donate that to a charity?
But it was so compelling,
it was horrid, but I needed
to see it more clearly.
I walked toward it and
it moved off the wall and
began moving toward me.
It was before we had
televisions on walls, but
it was like that, and it got
right up close to me, and
inside the picture frame,
something like a video
played of a car from the late
1950s, the kind with lots of
chrome and fins on the back.
There was a young man sitting
on the radiator of it with
the hood open, and he had not
been in a collision, but for
some reason, he burst into
flames on the engine of a car
and was screaming as he died.
And I woke up.
I've had to, at different
times in my life, keep
a pager on my nightstand
if it was my turn to
respond to an emergency
call at a local hospital.
Most priests have had to
take their turn doing that.
And so if that happens, you
might be in a sound sleep
when the pager goes off and
you suddenly have to rouse
yourself and talk to the
nurse's station and get the...
Patient's name and then the
room number or whatever.
It was like that.
I felt like I was called in
an emergency way to help a
man who was burning to death.
And so I woke up and
said, Hello, I'm Nathan.
I will help you any way I can.
I prayed for him right then
and I said in the morning I'm
going to meet with a partner
and we'll figure this out.
So that's how it started.
In the morning, there was
a woman on this retreat who
had been a prayer partner of
mine and I knew her to have
uncommon spiritual gifts.
I said, could we get together
at a break and pray about
this and see what we might
be able to do to help?
She had what I call
the gift of prophecy,
of prophetic speech.
It commonly gets called
channeling in other circles.
But in the Catholic Church,
that word is radioactive.
It upsets people.
I don't use it, but she had
that gift and we prayed to St.
Michael the Archangel and
Holy Mary and surrounded
ourselves with protection.
And she said, whoever
this man is, he really
wants to talk to you.
Is it okay if I let him?
I said, yes, it is.
So she allowed him to speak.
And the first words he spoke
were, who the hell does he
think he is taking me just
when my life was getting good?
You're probably familiar
with that story because you
told me you started reading
Rod Bland: I have yeah.
It wasn't clear who he was
speaking through when I
first read that that he was
speaking through your your
Father Nathan Castle:
my partner.
Yeah, speaking to me
through the prayer partner.
I also have that gift,
but it wasn't manifesting
hardly at all 27 years ago.
Now it's common, but
that I knew that I had it
because it had happened
once before when I was
at the Grand Canyon after
graduating college, but it
lay dormant for a long time.
But anyway, that's what
happened and we learned
that he had died in 1960
when I was four years old
and we said what is it
that, why are you here?
What can we do for you?
What is it you want?
And he said, my wife
she's an old woman now.
I've been watching
her since I died.
Now she's an old
woman in her sixties.
She's dying of cancer
and I want to greet her
when she passes, but
I can't the way I am.
I said, oh, okay, now at least
we have our marching orders.
And I said what have you been
doing for the last 40 years?
And he said, nothing much,
just watching my wife.
And I said it sounds like now
you want to be in a big hurry
to be ready to greet her.
So I'm probably going
to have to push you.
People don't normally like
being pushed, so if I push
too hard, you can push
back and tell me to stop.
Just know that I'm only
trying to serve you, and
we'll figure this out.
That was this assignment, how
to help a man who had been,
he was, he was so mad at
the world, he was mad at God
because he was taught that
the reason that people die
is because God takes them.
Heard that?
Rod Bland: Yeah, I think
it, depending on people's
beliefs or as they grew
up, I often hear that,
that term used, yeah,
Father Nathan Castle: and
for him, that made God
a body snatcher, and it
made him like a tyrant.
Nobody asked me to have
my, I didn't ask to be
burned to death in a fire.
Who the hell does
he think he is?
So he entered the afterlife
angry and desiring to
isolate, except he wanted
to be able to watch his
wife and he kept it, he kept
tabs on her over the years.
For about 40 years, so we,
we had to break the problem
down into component parts.
And we did that and it's
described in detail in the
1st afterlife book, but we
were able to help him get
what he wanted in the end.
He just, I had to tell him.
I think the problem is
that you're just a caveman.
Every time you talk about
it, you sound like you own
the exclusive rights to her.
She's loved by other
people besides you.
I think if you just calm
down and take your place
among a few other people
and be a gentleman about
it, I think you'll be fine.
And that's the
way it turned out.
He was able to greet
her in the end.
And then finally when it
was time to say goodbye.
I said Ray, it sounds
like you got what you
what you came looking for.
But I said, now that you're
an afterlife greeter and
you know how to watch people
before they die, would
you keep an eye on me?
And when it's my time
to die, would you be
there to greet me?
And he said, why, sir,
I would be most honored.
Just look for the
perfect gentleman.
So we call that chapter
Ray the Perfect Gentleman.
Rod Bland: yeah, I enjoy
that part of the story.
So what do you think
it is that how, let
me rephrase that.
How do the people who contact
you through your dreams, how
do you think they're chosen?
What is it about them
that, that makes them
a candidate, let's say?
Father Nathan Castle: I
only have a clientele,
I guess you could say,
who died traumatically,
violently, suddenly.
Shootings, stabbings,
drownings, lots
of car crashes.
Once in a while a medical
emergency that caused their
death quickly, but mostly not.
Mostly non natural,
sudden violent deaths.
And once in a while I'll
get people that had some
trauma that happened to
them during their life.
That kind of broke their
soul and they might have
lived on for years, but
only as a kind of a shell
of their former self.
Once in a while I'll get
that but most of the time
they've all been through
trauma of one kind or
another when they pass.
Their trauma is too large.
When you go to funerals, have
you ever heard people talk
at funerals about what they
hope the joys of heaven are?
And you're, we're hoping that
Jack is up there with all of
his card buddies or whatever.
That people have some idea
that there are joys that
people are now free to pursue.
Not if you're, not if you
died suddenly, violently,
tragically, and you're a mess.
You might not want that.
You might just be
angry that you died.
So some of them need a
kind of a team of people
to assist them at the front
end for a while and help
them calm down, heal a bit.
And then there comes a
time when they're, I think
of us as the discharge
staff at a medical center.
Have you ever had to be
overnight in the hospital?
Rod Bland: Thankfully no.
Oh, and one time, one time,
Father Nathan Castle: yeah,
I've been very healthy too,
but I know that if you've
had surgery or whatever,
and you have different
follow up therapies and
medical appointments
to meet and so on.
There's maybe a social worker
whose job it is to help
you get all packed up and
ready to leave the hospital
and make sure that you
understand your medications
and follow up detail.
I feel like we're like that
where they're brought to us
and they show up in a dream.
I've had some of them.
I used to ask often,
how did you find me?
I quit asking because
I got the same answer
just about all the time.
One of them was, I don't know,
somebody brought me here.
One time it was,
your light was on.
One lady used to shop, catalog
shop from big paper catalogs.
Growing up in the outback,
did you have to do that?
Rod Bland: Yes, that was the
only way we could get stuff.
Father Nathan Castle:
Yeah, when I was
growing up in the U.
S., there were two companies
that had really big catalogs.
Sears and J.
C.
Penney.
And this lady was from
about the 1950s and she
used to catalog shop.
And so when it was time for
her to make this crossing
thing, they said, there's lots
of ways that you can do this.
Why don't you sit down here
with this catalog and page
through it and see if there's
something that appeals to you.
And she turned a
page and I was on it.
And she said, oh, look
here, there's a Catholic
priest that does this.
I think I'll pick him
'cause I was a Catholic.
That's what she told me.
Rod Bland: It makes sense.
I have a good friend of
mine, Nicky Alan, who's a
psychic, and she has had that
described in the same way.
It's like she has a
light, and her light's
on, and that's what
brings people towards her.
So it makes sense.
Perfect sense to me.
So I wanted to ask
you, oh dear, I lost my
train of thought there.
Oh, that's right.
So when you have the dream
and given that these are
all somewhat traumatic ways
that people have died, how
do you experience that?
Is it like first
person, third person?
Are you detached somehow?
How do you,
Father Nathan Castle: That's
a great question, Rod.
You must, you're a podcaster.
I imagine you probably
are a storyteller too.
Podcast is storytelling.
It really depends on
the point of view that a
storyteller or a writer takes.
For example, a lot of the
deaths that I've been witness
to were in automobiles.
Sometimes it's the driver
who died and so they'll
have me behind the wheel
of the car and they'll show
me a truck that suddenly
crosses the center line is
about to hit them head on.
Other times I might be as
though in a helicopter and
seeing it from above and
watching cars crash into each
other almost like they're
toys or the size of toys.
Maybe I'll be on the
sidewalk next to a thing.
So it really depends on the
way a person tells a story.
Once in a while they'll
especially in the car crashes,
what that they're merciful in
that they don't make me suffer
and they don't terrorize me.
They do what they can to
make their point without it
being too graphic or gory.
But they helped me understand
that this is not my experience
and it's not a normal dream.
And I call them
a contact dream.
I make the distinction
between having a dream
or receiving a dream.
For me, having a dream is
my own psychobabble, like
the golf game that I was
talking about earlier.
Receiving a dream is the
part where there's violence
and circumstances that
I've never been in, falling
off a cliff or being shot
or something like that.
Rod Bland: And do the dreams
themselves, apart from the
fact that they're events
you've not had any experience
with, do they have a different
essence about them as well
that makes them distinct
from your everyday dreams?
Father Nathan Castle: They do.
They just feel different.
I don't know how
else to put it.
They and very often they have
a little, they can have a
perplexing quality because
I'm still receiving it.
I had one last night and
it had in it, dreams can be
either very short or they
can feel like they're very
long and but yeah, there's
a texture to them that
that is somehow foreign.
In fact to me, you're a
foreigner you're on the other
end of the globe in Australia
and I'm in the United States.
Sometimes I get it, most of
the time I'm dealing with
people who died in the United
States, but not always.
I'll get an inkling that
I'm in Iraq, or I'm in
South America or something,
and usually that ends
up being borne out.
I'm in some place that
I've never been, but the
person that's showing me
their death died there.
Rod Bland: Can you tell us
about one of those experiences
where you've contacted someone
from another country that has
Father Nathan Castle: I
can, and and this, the
book that you're reading is
the first book of two, and
there'll be another one out
in that series this fall.
It'll be Afterlife
Interrupted, book
Rod Bland: I think I'm
probably about a quarter
of the way through.
Father Nathan Castle: In the
second book, there was a man
who who showed me a dream of,
I, I felt like I was a Muslim
man at prayer in a bunker
like room without windows and
there was a machine gun fire.
I was with other men and we
needed to decide you know
how the Muslims don't, they
Pray separated by gender.
Rod Bland: I didn't know that.
Father Nathan Castle: They do.
The women pray in
one place and the men
pray in another place.
They were in Baghdad
during the war and their
mosque had been bombed.
And they really
had no proper Imam.
Some of the elders, he was a
businessman, Nadi is his name,
had to step up and reorganize
the congregation and find an
alternative place to pray.
They chose a windowless
warehouse for security,
but the women were across
the street in another
place when they heard
this machine gun fire.
So he decided he couldn't bear
thinking that his wife and
daughters might be endangered,
so he went out into the street
and saw people bleeding.
And he turned to his right
and saw a ten year old girl
with a machine gun with two
men pointing guns at her head.
Forcing her to shoot at him
and kill him and she did.
He died because of that and
then we worked with him and
it was, he was very sweet.
He said, I would never
have thought that
I would be talking.
First of all, he didn't
speak English, but
that didn't matter.
He said, all I'm doing
is forming my words and
they're coming out in your
language and he said I
would never have thought I
would be doing anything like
this at all, but certainly
not with an American, a
Christian, and a priest.
I was about as other an
alien as he could imagine.
He said, I would never
have thought this was
going to be my life.
But I said here we are.
Let's let's figure out how to
get you where you need to go.
And I used to ask them,
can you think of anybody?
I said, you, the reason
you've come to me is your
team deems you ready to
move on to a next afterlife
level where you don't
need as much, healthcare.
Apparently you've healed to
the point where you're ready
to take on new adventures
and you just need to move
from one plane to the next.
That's what we facilitate.
In the end, for him, I used
to ask them, can you think
of anyone who loved you,
who died before you did,
who you know loves you?
And would it be okay if
we invite them forward?
After a while, we didn't
even need to ask anymore.
People started showing up.
And in his case, if you
remember a little bit of
geography from that region
of the world, the Tigris
and the Euphrates rivers run
through it, and it's called
Mesopotamia because it's the
land between the two rivers.
He said that part of the world
that we lived in would hardly
be habitable if it weren't
for the two big rivers, and
almost everything we did
depended upon the rivers,
and all of our festivals were
somehow linked to the rivers.
He said there'd be different.
Instead of having a parade
down main street, we
usually had floats that
floated down the river
with different holiday
themes attached to them.
So when it came time for him
to cross a parade of floats,
started drifting in and he
said, the space that I then
has, it's the water's rising
and there's now about a foot
of water that I'm waiting
in enough that floats can
be supported by the water.
And in his case it was
a decorated float with
his father and other
family members on it.
And he said, it's
time for me to go now.
My father's beckoning me
to get on his float and
we're going to float away.
So that's what
happened with him.
And then he's ended up
coming back and helping
another Iraqi child who died.
I have that happen sometimes
where somebody is an alumni
of the process and they
return and help somebody else.
Rod Bland: That's fascinating.
There's have you ever read any
of the books by Bruce Mohen?
Father Nathan Castle: No, how
do you spell the last name?
Rod Bland: It's M O H E N.
Father Nathan Castle:
M O H E N.
Rod Bland: Yeah, he's a
graduate of the Monroe
Institute, which I'm sure
you've probably heard of
and they did some things
that were quite similar as
people, because everybody
takes their, I guess their
mindset, they seem to, we
seem to take it with us.
Father Nathan Castle: We do.
We definitely do
it by experience.
Rod Bland: And that can hold
you in a certain place and
he, especially like with
you, people with traumatic
experiences the earthquake,
the the bombing that was in
Oklahoma and they would help
people move a bit further
and often there would be,
loved ones who had already
passed and others and I
thought, wow that's, it must
be such a rewarding thing
to be to participate in.
Father Nathan Castle:
It really is.
I've been I wasn't public
about it until 2018,
because I was still a pastor,
usually a pastor in a campus
church, and many of them were
very large congregations,
and staff, I had about 20,
21 staff members, and all the
fundraising, and five services
every weekend, and lots of
retreats and service projects.
I was a really busy guy.
I was just afraid that
if I went public with
this, it would be too
upsetting or jarring.
I just thought I can continue
to do this on the down low
and there'll come a day maybe
when I'll go public with it.
And I decided when I was
about 60 years old, that
it was time to do that.
Rod Bland: And what's the
general reception been like
from people who have learned
about this other work that
used to be on the down low?
Father Nathan Castle:
It's very gratifying.
For, there are sometimes
people who disapprove many
people who are disapproving
are polite about it.
And just don't want to
hear any more about it.
Others, sometimes there
are snarky remarks and
stuff on the internet,
Anybody that has an
internet presence is
going to get some of that.
I should think that you've
had your share of that.
I don't know.
You really just have to
not pay too much attention
to that kind of thing.
And on the whole, I've
been received sometimes.
It's my day started this
morning with a Catholic man
who found my work upsetting.
He had just learned about it.
And he wrote me an email, but
he took the time to lay out
his questions and concerns
and he did it with with Grace.
But I called him on the phone
and we talked for about half
an hour and we'll talk again.
And I get a lot of emails
from people that don't just
have an academic interest
in this topic, but whose
child committed suicide,
Or they're grieving their,
especially drug that in
this scourge right now of
Rod Bland: I think we
probably have it in equal
portions to what other
countries like in the U.
S.
would.
Yeah.
Father Nathan Castle:
fentanyl.
The illegal drugs that are
coming for us, they come
up mostly from Mexico but
they're candy colored and
they, one pill can kill.
And so there's a lot of
grief coming from that and
so I end up doing a lot of
grief counseling and helping
people I teach them spiritual
practices that they can
do and I do some, I don't
do long term counseling.
The subtitle of my
first book was Helping
Stuck Souls Cross Over.
And using that metaphor
of being stuck, I'll say
to a person that wants
help from me, I'll say,
I think of myself as
the tow truck driver.
I might be able to pull you
out of the ditch, but I can't
follow you down the road.
I'll make 1 hour long
appointment and help a
person assess a possible,
a lot of times people
feel stuck because they've
arrived at some certitude.
And I'll challenge the
certitude and say, what if
that's not what if there's
another way to think of it?
And if they're willing to
shift a bit, sometimes that's
all it takes to get unstuck.
For one thing, the idea
that you would be in charge,
do you have children?
Rod Bland: I've
got four actually.
Father Nathan Castle:
All right.
Sometimes parents who have
lost a child, especially one
who was depressed or suicided
or a drug death, sometimes
they feel like now they're
responsible for their, that
child in the afterlife.
And they panic and feel
all stress about how do
I help my deceased son?
In the afterlife and so
sometimes I have to sit
with them and challenge
some of that and help them
stay in the present moment
and do the present good.
Anyway, I end up with
a gratifying work to do
for for people that...
A lot of people are searching
for some sort of spiritual
meaning and they're using
the internet as the place
to look around, especially
during the pandemic.
Even people that had houses
of worship and communities
that they were attached to,
many of them were locked
'cause of the pandemic.
Rod Bland: Yeah, I
think that's true.
There are people, we're
all looking for answers.
And, People are starting
to question what they
know and accept other
things that may other
information, other evidence.
I think this is where things
like near death experiences,
your own experiences, there's
no real way to prove these
in the sort of scientific
sense, although I think
that's also making progress.
And, but there's this
truth, there's this element
of truth that rings,
something that rings true
about it, and people are,
that's what they need.
People just want to
have some reassurance
that it's not the end,
Father Nathan Castle: Yes.
And it's, it really isn't.
And it's not about
religion, I believe
it's about metaphysics.
It's about the kind
of thing that we are.
I believe that we, from
the time that we come into
existence, we always will be.
And.
Do you know ions?
The Inter International
Association for
Near Death studies?
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Many of my guests have
are part of that, or
have, spoken at their
conferences and whatnot.
Father Nathan Castle: I'll be
speaking we have one coming
up at the end of the month,
and we're recording this
in August, and it's, it'll
be at the end of August and
the beginning of September.
I'll be speaking there, and
there, there is a lot of
scientific research, and even
on the campus where I live,
at the University of Arizona,
there's a lot of research on
especially on mediumship here.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Father Nathan Castle:
double and triple, quadruple
blind studies to try to...
See about the veracity
of the medium and the
messages they bring through.
So I'm hoping that I'm going
to be in that milieu more
and more as time goes on.
Rod Bland: Yeah, it's
a fascinating area.
Somebody once said to me,
there's a lot of work
that's going on to try and
prove things in a, in an
empirical sense of, about
the validity of things like
mediumship, about what you
do and psychics, et cetera.
But I think the most
important thing is what is
the impact of that information
on you as a person?
Like when I, I read your
story, that, that sort of
further cements the belief
that we do go on after our
physical death and there
is more to our life and
we're an eternal being.
Like that just cements it
even further and gives me
more confidence about that.
And so the feeling for me
is beneficial and positive.
I think that's the thing
that's most important, whether
or not it can be proven or
not, I think is secondary
to how does that actually
impact your life and whether
Father Nathan Castle: Yes,
and I'm happy to hear that.
If reading only a quarter
of the way into my first
book has had a positive
impact on you good for you.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
Father Nathan Castle: I can
also teach people if they...
If they're frustrated that
they wish they had psychic
gifts and could talk to their,
back and forth to their loved
ones and so on, I can at
least teach them how to send,
How to convey a message to
their loved ones, that's
standard Catholic praxis.
How to think about where
they are, because oftentimes
people will talk about the man
upstairs, or they'll presume
that, that God, whatever
God is at a faraway place.
And as I told you earlier,
my mom taught me, no,
it's right in your heart.
All you have to do is, all you
have to do is cross yourself
and say hello in there.
So I can teach people to, to
at least experiment with some
different practices that are
common to Catholic Christians.
Do you have any, do you
know anybody that does yoga?
Rod Bland: Yeah, I used to
for many years myself, but
Father Nathan Castle:
All right.
Rod Bland: Here in
Sydney especially.
Father Nathan Castle:
yeah, sure.
And the next thing I ask is,
do they want to become Hindus?
Rod Bland: No.
Father Nathan Castle: Usually
Rod Bland: None
that I know of.
Yeah.
Father Nathan Castle: They're
just borrowing a practice
from one of the great
world religious traditions
because it looks beneficial.
And so I feel like I can
be that Catholic priest
that's not trying to turn
you into a Catholic, but I
can say to you, if you want
to borrow a practice from
this tradition, I can teach
you about how to do it.
And we have a lot of different
practices and tools that I
think are helpful in dealing
with life, death, afterlife,
and being connected to loved
ones that preceded us, ones
that we knew in this life
and ones that lived long
ago, the saints, right?
I have lots of saint friends.
I'm talking with
them all the time.
I'm hardly ever alone.
Rod Bland: Yeah.
I like this idea.
This is often, I don't
know very much about the
saints, but I'm learning and
I'm sorry, I was actually
thinking of archangels just
then as well, like Archangel
Michael, but the saints is
something fairly new after,
as I've started to learn
from reading your books.
So now that's a, another
area of explanation,
exploration that I'd
like to learn more about.
Father Nathan Castle: If
I can help, let me know.
I feel like that's
really my strong suit.
I have great, they're
all delightful.
The saints are all all
human persons who have
died and lived on.
And many times in the
Catholic church, some
saint will be the patron of
architecture or the patron
of gardening or something.
And it's usually because
they loved that thing
in their human lifetime
on the earth and they,
because they loved it, they
don't need to give it up.
They just take it to
the next level somehow
Rod Bland: Yeah, I see.
So if if people do want to
learn more about what you
do, Father Nathan, or get in
touch with you, what's the
best way for them to do that?
Father Nathan Castle:
through my website, which is
Nathan, n a t h a n, Nathan
Castle, c a s t l e.com.
Nathan castle.com.
There's a And the thing
I don't do, or a couple
of things that I don't
do, I don't do demons.
Sometimes people immediately
associate Catholic priests and
spirituality with exorcism,
and that's not my gift.
I don't do that, nor do
I deliver messages from
deceased loved ones.
I would discourage people
from saying, Would you
please let me know how
my grandmother's doing?
I wouldn't do that.
But I'd be happy to listen to
whatever their concerns are.
And then you and I are
talking via technology all
the way across the Pacific.
It's not hard to set up a Zoom
Rod Bland: zones.
Father Nathan Castle:
Yeah, yes, and many times,
and a different day.
Isn't it a different day?
Rod Bland: It is.
Yes.
It's Friday here.
Father Nathan Castle: In
fact you were patient with
me in just setting up this
call because it took us
a few tries just to agree
upon what day and what
time, but I'd be happy to
do whatever I could to help.
The thing that I ask
people to do first is if
they're really interested
in what they've heard, buy
and read the first book.
Rod Bland: Yep.
Father Nathan Castle: Please
don't ask me to explain things
that I've already explained
in detail in a book that's not
very expensive and that you
could order from Amazon and
have the day after tomorrow.
Rod Bland: Yeah, and
it's a good read.
I ordered the Kindle version,
so it's I got it instantly.
Father Nathan Castle: And
we also have all three,
all four three of my
books are on audible.com.
They're all audio books that
people prefer to do, that.
A lot of people do
that while they're
exercising or commuting.
Rod Bland: Yeah, I'll put
all those in the show notes.
And is there any final message
that you'd like to leave
people with before we wrap
up our conversation today?
Father Nathan Castle:
I also have a podcast.
My podcast is coming
up on a year old.
It's called The Joyful
Friar, f r I a R Dominic St.
Dominic the founder
of our order.
That was his nickname.
And I've just borrowed it to
for my show, but you can find
The Joyful Friar wherever
you get your podcasts.
And I would just encourage
people to to keep exploring
in that direction and trust
that, that they're really
not only a temporary being.
You're, we're both temporary
and permanent at the same
time in different ways.
There's a part of you that
will die and the essence
of you will live on.
It's just the way the
universe is built.
Rod Bland: Father Nathan,
thank you for that message.
I appreciate you and thank you
for coming on the show today.
Father Nathan Castle:
All right.
God bless you.