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Introducing ReFolkUs, a new podcast by Folk Music Ontario, where we talk to artists and music industry professionals about building sustainable careers as creative workers, with a focus on folk.
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to [00:00:30] ReFolkUs. Our guest today is Tom Coxworth. Tom has been a part of the folk and roots music community since 1979. Since his early teens, he braved the stormy and murky waters of Roadey, Artist management, studio producer, tour manager, and even as a booking agent. He has worked as a columnist, reviewer, interviewer, and as a juror for numerous music award categories, and has participated in many Alberta music festivals as organizer, advisor, MC, and board member.
[00:00:58] Rosalyn: In 2009, he was [00:01:00] recognized by the Edmonton Folk Festival with a special life membership. Having survived those many career deviations since 1995, he's been folk roots for the legendary CKUA radio network each week on Sundays from 11 a. m. till 1 p. m. now going on 30 years. Welcome, Tom. How are you doing?
[00:01:19] Tom: I'm doing very, very well and it's very funny to hear that bio to me because I actually didn't write it. So, uh, I, I sound like I've been around for a [00:01:30] long time, so I guess I have been.
[00:01:32] Rosalyn: it's an impressive bio and, and, varied, and, the end of it, really takes the cake that you've been doing this radio program for 30 years. That's quite spectacular. I'm wondering if you can, start us off by telling us a little bit about this wonderful merry mixed road that, got you there.
[00:01:51] Tom: Oh my goodness. I don't know the answer to that. I can also say that none of this in the folk community is done alone. So while that's my bio, there's so many [00:02:00] people around me that have influenced me and helped me to get to, if you want, this point, I'm very proud of the program. I'm very proud of the listeners and to be connected to so many people with something I'm very passionate about.
[00:02:13] Tom: so if you went back in time. It was always there for me. I was born in Orillia, 12 years after Gordon Lightfoot. I remember seeing Gordon Lightfoot on Country Hoedown and how much he was loved and appreciated before he hit fame, throughout the [00:02:30] world. And my mom came from a place called Kansal, Nova Scotia.
[00:02:33] Tom: So I always had what we would term in Canada as Celtic music. But it would be Canadian Celtic music. So that's what initially got me started. And then of course, the deviation would come in 1962 when I fell in love with the Beatles. And so the combination of what I would call trad music and then rock and roll essentially, kind of started me on that path.
[00:02:57] Tom: And, 1970, [00:03:00] Kmart, Sheridan Mall, uh, it would probably be Chum FM with new music in the afternoon and they played a group called Fairport Convention. And, I would say when it comes to a fundamental root, of the music, uh, that's where it kind of started. And, being an obsessive collector, uh, Of music a follower of music.
[00:03:21] Tom: the journey just continued from there. I started, through my friend, Roddy Campbell, uh, the man that put together Penguin Eggs, and one [00:03:30] night at a concert, he wanted to do more writing. the concert was Michelle Schacht and David Lindley with Willie Smith from Toronto on keyboards. And, Roddy said, Hey, you know something about music, why don't you do some radio with me?
[00:03:43] Tom: then that was on CGSR in Edmonton. So community radio. really provided the platform for, for so many of us just, just to get a start and to, speak with our own voice and share our own music. So that's as condensed as it can be, I guess.
[00:03:59] Rosalyn: were just [00:04:00] chatting before and you know, I had the pleasure of being on your show, a decade and or two, a decade or a little while ago, we'll say. and you mentioned to me as well that, that you're not sure if you yourself have ever been interviewed.
[00:04:15] Rosalyn: So which I will say also intimidates me a bit, you know, to be interviewing the interviewer. I'm wondering if you can maybe just share a little bit about what makes a good interview and, and how you kind of approach, what's [00:04:30] your thought process when approaching an interview?
[00:04:32] Tom: When approaching an interview, I like to do as much research as I can, even though I may know the artist personally or, very well connected to the music. Because if you do a good interview and, and I interview and usually edit, so not too many live interviews. So you have to add the energy into that.
[00:04:50] Tom: But I also want to connect with the artist on a level that the listener who doesn't know the music just accepts that the music is something they like. But the entrance from the artist [00:05:00] into creating some wonderful comments and commentary and get their point across, that's what I want to do.
[00:05:06] Tom: An artist will spend two, three years putting 10 or 12 songs together. But after it's done and it's released, now what do they have to say about them? I just had a wonderful interview with my friend, Martin Joseph from Wales, and we've known each other for 25 years. I was fortunate enough to spend enough time with his new recording that he had to think about his initial [00:05:30] intent, and to me, that means the audience is listening and engaged, especially artists themselves, artists who follow Martin Joseph, they'll go, Oh, I didn't know that.
[00:05:40] Tom: Oh, how did that happen? And I try not to do bio interviews. for example, uh, you won this award in this period of time and things. Bruce Coburn once said, uh, we were all backstage and I think it was in Canmore or Grand Prairie. And he said, you know, these bios, that's not about what I'm going to do on [00:06:00] stage.
[00:06:00] Tom: All the audience wants to know is what I do tonight. The bios are there. That's part of my history. I appreciate that. And I keep that in the back of my mind because I want the listener to go, Oh, I know you as a different person. Now I love your music. I love what you say in your music. Now I know why that occurred.
[00:06:19] Tom: Cause a lot of times, listeners don't really engage in the lyrics. They engage in the courses of course. So the idea is to, to bring them in a little [00:06:30] deeper into, uh, how the artist creates.
[00:06:32] Rosalyn: but it takes, two to tango. I'm sure to really make an impactful full conversation, you have like, Uh, tips for somebody who's being interviewed? Like what, what is something that, people can exhibit that gets you excited or really kind of ignites the
[00:06:47] Rosalyn: conversation?
[00:06:47] Tom: Know more about the artist and the artist's journey than the artist knows about themselves. I have some rules that I follow, that I think work. I do a lot of [00:07:00] research. I try to figure out where the artist is now as an artist and not so much their history, an artist that just releases a new recording.
[00:07:09] Tom: That's what they're engaged with. That's what they're excited about. They've done the best job they can and now they're promoting it. So that's more important than their history. What I've learned is that their history is part of them. So as they talk about what they're doing now, they will go back.
[00:07:24] Tom: in time and say, you know, in 1980 when I did this or 1990 or when I [00:07:30] worked with so and so. It creates a bit of a nightmare in editing because now you're doing the editing in reverse. Most listeners, I believe, want to hear about the early journey, not the latest journey. But the latest journey is what's most important to the artist.
[00:07:43] Tom: and I try not to make it boring for the artists. I want them to engage. I want them to sit forward. I want them to have a casual conversation. And if I do that, then they're actually connecting with the audience. will have the artists. [00:08:00] CDs out. I will have notes on the back of the CD so that when I go back to, In the Lonesome Hours by Oh My Darlin track three has some sort of classical thing.
[00:08:14] Tom: Uh, etc. So, I actually engage in their history. And to my surprise, because an artist is always moving forward, they're surprised themselves of their own history. I think that works. I think that's it. I used to [00:08:30] say, I have 100 questions, most of them not very good. And if I get them down to 10 questions that I try to follow and then have what I call outs, which means that if the artist doesn't want to go there or the question doesn't land, where do I go next?
[00:08:46] Tom: And you know, you can have interviews with certain artists where they don't want to engage, their publicist brings them over and sits them down in front of you and you just go, Oh, what's going to happen here? So, in a live setting, that's difficult.
[00:08:59] Rosalyn: have you [00:09:00] had, and you don't have to name names, but have you had the experience been asking questions of, of someone and they're giving you kind of nothing, you know, not, not the responses you're looking for.
[00:09:10] Tom: I have, and that's a sad situation for me because I've also done it. a lot of research to engage artists and they haven't shown up, or they don't want to show up. And sometimes you can recover from that. But quite honestly, in those cases, and I won't mention their names because there've been quite a few over the, [00:09:30] uh, 1800 or so interviews I've done where You know, it creates a negative impression for me, but more so for the audience.
[00:09:37] Tom: The audience is out there, and if you ask a question, and it's a good question, and they don't want to engage, then you'll get the, yes, no, I don't know. think when you're doing an interview, it's not about me, it shouldn't be about me, because I'm the individual, it's about those people that want to hear from those artists.
[00:09:56] Tom: found that in a sad situation. will mention something [00:10:00] that was really, really good. And, the artist was Graham Nash, Grosby, Stills, Nash Young, the Hollies, so such a wonderful and storied career and such a very knowledgeable man as well about his career and about how he developed what he is.
[00:10:17] Tom: And I learned many things from him. So I had 12 minutes to talk to him that was it. And come 10 minutes, I said, Graham, uh, we've got two minutes left. And he says, [00:10:30] well, I won't tell you exactly what he said because it won't go on air. He said, he said, this is wonderful. He says, I don't talk about music.
[00:10:38] Tom: People always want to know about my personal life, especially if they're from the UK. He says, let's keep talking. We talked for 45 minutes. Uh, what a generous giving person. Who knows his history and also knows the history of the people around him that he's helped. He's been an advocate for so many artists over the years.
[00:10:58] Tom: You know, you're talking about a man that, [00:11:00] probably has a 60 odd year career. And he talks with the same excitement when he met the Everly Brothers in 1959 as he does about working with the musicians around him, these days. So, you get somebody that is at the top, of their game in their career that is generous and wants to speak beyond me to the audience.
[00:11:20] Tom: And that's a beautiful thing.
[00:11:21] Rosalyn: Do you have advice for the artists themselves when they're coming into an interview situation. You know, maybe if somebody's, you know, not [00:11:30] used to doing interviews, how they can prepare, what they can expect.
[00:11:34] Tom: think I do, and there's both sides of it. That's what I do, and I hope I'm constantly improving and understanding what the artist is doing. But from the artist coming into my studio or a live setting, know where you are. it's a very confusing for many artists on long tours.
[00:11:52] Tom: know that this is a giving situation. This is a conversation with 150, 000 people know that this [00:12:00] is, your audience, my job is to make you as the artist as good as you can be. Know what you want to say, which is an audience is going to listen for two or three minutes after a question and then they might tune out.
[00:12:14] Tom: Well, that's not good. So know what you want to say, the points you want to make. So if you're doing a new album, the question might be something along the lines of What was the process to record such and such a song? And obviously, I've done an in depth view of [00:12:30] that song, and then I might even quote a lyric. The artist now has to do that journey into themselves, and be honest, and be succinct, and say, usually, hear it a lot, from many interviewers, which is, Oh, I've never been asked that question. That's what I want to engage in. I want that artist to go into their own journey. Because that journey started two years ago with bed tracks and things like that.
[00:12:51] Tom: started their journey? How did they get here? And where are they now compared to where they were? How have they reconciled their career? [00:13:00] From 35 years ago. Are you friends with your career then? Because imagine an artist that has had that longevity and then they come around the corner and all of a sudden they go, Oh, geez, I can't play those songs anymore.
[00:13:12] Tom: you know, I can throw out a name like David Franci, who has done so much in his 25, 30 years. How does he even reconcile with the songs he's going to have to leave out when he's so excited about the latest stuff he's releasing or, or, uh, [00:13:30] Julian Taylor, you know, who has a career that he keeps reshaping.
[00:13:33] Tom: I love that. And I love to have that artist say what they mean to say about who they are today and who they were. Because that artist's journey is usually the listener's journey too. They can all relate to it. So if you can relate to the audience, that's probably the most important thing about it.
[00:13:50] Tom: And then I, as the interviewer, I should really basically shrink in the background and, and the artists say what they have to say,
[00:13:57] Rosalyn: turning to your program, so Folk Roots, I [00:14:00] mean, I'm going to say that it's, I don't know if it's the longest running, it's sure been running for a long time, but arguably now one of the most well known folk shows in the country, you know, clearly, much of that, uh, It's coming from your ability to connect with, artists and, and, and folks really, keeping engaged.
[00:14:18] Rosalyn: What do you think is the secret to keeping up that listenership and, keeping folks wanting to, come back and listen to the show.
[00:14:24] Tom: So I'm like the conductor, I have the history, I have the, modestly the, [00:14:30] the musical knowledge, which I keep growing on, but it's also listening to the audience and to the listener. We have a wonderfully vibrant community here in the province of Alberta. To share not only that music, but to go beyond.
[00:14:44] Tom: my history is, I've lived in various places in Canada and I've absorbed the music based on what I started with back in the sixties and it's listening to that audience about what they want to hear. And when they give me, and they do, challenges, uh, [00:15:00] Can you play this? Well, that's their folk music.
[00:15:03] Tom: So I think when I reach into an artist that may not be generally considered by myself, I have to realize what the listener wants. I just played a track by a very popular pop artist. And I had a little issue with how am I going to fit that in? It wouldn't normally be there. And then when we look at the audience about their folk roots.
[00:15:25] Tom: Then you kind of go, that's what I have to fit in. And I was really pleased with [00:15:30] what I did, on the program. And I was just talking to somebody that heard it and said, I didn't know you would play. And I did. And it was kind of cool in a way, even though it was more pop oriented. The music makes you feel.
[00:15:43] Tom: And if the story guides you to the music, the audience will sit down and listen. So I hope it's not all about me. I hope it's about the music, each and every piece of music I choose. I hope so. So I think that's the connection and I think that's the longevity. I [00:16:00] learn, I hope from my own, what I call mistakes, but when I hear something that is really good, I will adapt that to the program. not give credit to anybody because now because mine, so you do something good, it's now mine.
[00:16:14] Tom: Uh, so. I hope it's just a connection and staying in connection. look at Alberta. Edmonton Folk Festival. Canmore Folk Festival. Bear Creek has come along so amazingly well in Grand Prairie. And these are festivals that are into their 40s and [00:16:30] 45 years, uh, Bear Creek being a lot newer. and again, a vibrant music scene.
[00:16:34] Tom: So I think, We as hosts, producers, just have to always be aware of connecting. and trying to say something that meets with what the audience wants to hear. I don't go into politics on my program, but it shouldn't take somebody too long about, socially and politically where I stand.
[00:16:53] Tom: And maybe there's some people who will make comments on something I might play that, I think is socially [00:17:00] responsible, to our audience, our folk arts audience. Maybe they shouldn't be listening to my program.
[00:17:05] Rosalyn: Yeah. You can always turn down the volume, you
[00:17:07] Tom: can always turn you know, but it's, I've been asked about my legacy and I have a real problem with that because I'm playing music and interviewing artists that I think should not be forgotten that need a space and a place. And I think that's at the root of it. and let's remember, CKUA, going on almost a hundred years now, has developed a connection [00:17:30] with the audience. It's, it's a connection with the music to the audience and the audience back to the music and, and to the hosts. So, I think I'm always talking to friends.
[00:17:40] Rosalyn: that's a beautiful way to think about it. I'm wondering, what you see in the future and, certainly, you know, the music industry has changed. drastically many times within, you know, the last 30 years. I'm sure there's folks wondering where you see kind of the future of radio going.
[00:17:57] Tom: I think, I'm more optimistic than I used to [00:18:00] be, Rosalind, about, terrestrial radio, radio stations. Because the one thing that streaming and, satellite radio, misses is, is that local connection. We see it all the time in the big media where they cut back on local broadcasts and centralize it to Toronto or Vancouver, that talks about the global view, but it doesn't talk about the local view.
[00:18:24] Tom: So with CKUA, I'm very optimistic. There's, there's challenges there. No doubt about [00:18:30] it. We just had a, um, a listener event recently and I become very, very humble by how we connect. The thing we have to do is grow that connection. we find that people come listening to CKUA in around their 40s. And you can see how that happens because, you know, people carry on with life.
[00:18:48] Tom: my worry, who's going to fill my shoes? Who's going to replace me? who's going to honor what I think are traditions. we have two monthly meetings as what we call [00:19:00] folk DJs and anybody that would love to be a folk DJ, please join us. And for people who are invested in singers, songwriters, folk music, indigenous music, Francophone music, who love the roots of that music.
[00:19:15] Tom: And, you know, there's, there's music that. goes beyond what I would call folk, but be engaged because we're going to need people to come up and replace us to keep the tradition going. if you're a bluegrass performer, who's going to carry on that tradition? [00:19:30] Who's going to support that tradition?
[00:19:31] Tom: I love Celtic music, but more of an English trad person. I realized that an English trad song from 1956 may not meet my audience's ears. But I need to do that, Scarborough Fair being one of the classic ones, you know. It wasn't written by Paul Simon. Having said that, here's the root with Martin Carthy.
[00:19:51] Tom: Here's that very root. Now, let me also show you where that root has become. And we need people to invest in that. once I move on, [00:20:00] geez, that sounds, that doesn't sound very good. Does it?
[00:20:03] Rosalyn: From, from radio.
[00:20:05] Tom: radio. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I expect that, uh, somewhere down the road, I'll say, thanks for being out there and sharing in the music safe journeys.
[00:20:13] Tom: Take care and we'll see you next week on, you know, that's it on the microphone, hand it over to somebody else. Uh, keep the playlist together. I mean, we as folk DJs. And folk. org online, join in the conversation. We share our playlists. We [00:20:30] talk about what's happening in North America, what's new in music. wonder about our aging way of doing things and who's going to take that forward. We have folk festivals out there that are doing a pretty good job. You also need somebody to help support them.
[00:20:47] Rosalyn: well, yeah, and, you know, I wanted to touch on a couple of the things that you've said. one being that, that connection to the local music scene, it just seems like such a vital. part of it and, you know, yes, you can listen to some sort [00:21:00] of playlist or satellite radio, but they're not going to give you direct access to the artists that you're listening to because they're coming to your town in two weeks and you can buy tickets and go see them live.
[00:21:10] Rosalyn: And what a, great conduit for folks to, you know, all of a sudden get this connection to live music through their, local radio. but also it just kind of hit me. That, you know, the, very process of, the way that you approach folk roots, it's folk in itself, you know, as, as a folk DJ, you are, weaving a story and you're, you've become a storyteller and [00:21:30] you're, weaving music into that, story and, and, kind of making, a folk art in itself.
[00:21:35] Rosalyn: I just got, I got chills.
[00:21:36] Rosalyn: I,
[00:21:36] Tom: I, I, I, I I actually got chills as well. I like that so I'm the bridge and the guide and the conductor, the artist. is the player. The artist is the one that really listener wants to hear. Sometimes I worry that I go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then hit the crescendo, which is the artist playing. So I try to make that as concise as possible. [00:22:00] in my program, there's poetry, there's prose, there's indigenous music, there's Celtic music. I want to turn a corner. And with each turn, like the doors in a hallway, the audience is following me. And, and it is a folk art.
[00:22:14] Tom: I try to keep the stories short. because you have to realize those that are out there sharing in what you're doing are being taken on a little journey. And if you ask them to listen to, oh my goodness, uh, the Carter Family [00:22:30] 1929 from W.
[00:22:31] Tom: S. M. the Grand Ole Opry, and it's three minutes, maybe you're going to edit that down to two minutes, because that journey says it starts here. It's like on the bumpy road, okay, now here's why it exists today. So, bear with me and I'm going to tell you this story, but let the artist take you on, on, on that.
[00:22:51] Tom: so, we have to be considerate of that, and so, you inform, maybe educate a little, I'm not an ethnomusicologist, I got put down one time [00:23:00] because uh, they heard that I had a good radio program and, and the person reached out and said, show me your playlist. I, I was so pleased and sent them my playlist and they said, that's not folk music, goodbye.
[00:23:13] Rosalyn: Oh my
[00:23:13] Tom: oh jeez, oh jeez, rejected by what I thought I was doing. Yes,
[00:23:19] Rosalyn: it sounds to me too that you, try to highlight is, um, and this is like a term that I use all the time, but I don't know if a ton of people are familiar with this, but like the full process,
[00:23:29] Tom: yeah, [00:23:30] Absolutely.
[00:23:30] Rosalyn: What does that mean to you? Wouldn't you hear those words?
[00:23:33] Tom: It means to me, the artist has gone deeper. It means to me that the music, if it's a music of tradition, you can hear those earthy stories, real, real stories. It doesn't matter whether it goes back 200 years or last year or yesterday. It's a story that people relate to. So if it's a mining disaster, Spring Hill mining disaster, oh my [00:24:00] god, go a step further and realize that those things are still happening today.
[00:24:04] Tom: go a step further and talk about the floods in the environment. No, I don't get into that, but I want you to relate to that, um, on Father's Day recently, and I highly recommend this track, because it's a pop track. The artist's name is James Blunt, and he did a song called Monsters. Now it's pop produced.
[00:24:23] Tom: But the lyrics are so well put together, and the story, which is what we relate to [00:24:30] today, came in to me from several donors and supporters during our fundraiser saying, In memory of, or my father or mother is facing or we're having this challenge or that challenge. And it's about protecting somebody. And that's what got to me about it. So it's a pop tune, but it's a folk process that he went through to create that. And it created the reaction I wanted, which is sit down, listen, feel, and by the way, I follow [00:25:00] with a humorous piece. Because life isn't always sad.
[00:25:04] Rosalyn: Well, that's, that's beautiful though. I want to try to connect folks who want to, engage with your show and if, if, people are outside of the, bandwidth, of CKUA, can they listen online if they want to, if tune into your program?
[00:25:16] Rosalyn: How can they, how can they
[00:25:17] Rosalyn: listen?
[00:25:17] Tom: Uh, CKUA. com, you can listen online. The programs are up one week after they air. so they're on demand as well throughout the world. CKUA has [00:25:30] 16 transmitters through the entire province of Alberta. going over into the borders of B. C. and Saskatchewan and northern Montana. So we get most of those listeners from that.
[00:25:42] Tom: I would say the listenership is around 250, 000. And so there's a lot of people that know CKUA. It's easy to find me just go to Tom Coxworth or just going to Folk Routes. And I must say that it should come up easily. I also recommend joining Maple Post or Folk [00:26:00] DJ if you want to go a little bit more.
[00:26:02] Tom: And anybody that wants to share in the music, support the music, and maybe become part of this Folk DJ event, there's Folk Ontario, there's also the Folk Alliance, Canadian Folk Music Awards. We're all connected. This is a family. I'm only You know, in the middle of the crowd with a soap box, it's a little taller than most people.
[00:26:23] Tom: if you want to be connected to this open, vital music [00:26:30] scene, then please join us and you know, we're the most welcoming people you'll ever meet.
[00:26:36] Rosalyn: I echo that And also I wanted to, to also mention that, you know, I'm in, I'm in Smith Falls, Ontario, but we listen to CKUA really often just on, There's, there's all sorts of like tune in radio and in different sorts of apps as well.
[00:26:49] Rosalyn: So if you're, you know, want to listen in real time, not asynchronous, if you want to listen in real time, I, I highly suggest that folks, tune in, you know, however they can on Sundays, even if you're not in Alberta to, uh, [00:27:00] listen to the magic as
[00:27:01] Rosalyn: it's happening.
[00:27:01] Tom: Well, we have the CKUA app, which is brilliant on my iPhone. And every Sunday from 11 to 1 PM, Rocky mountain time, I'm listening to that guy on the radio. Sometimes I like what he does. the good thing about it is that I always play good music. And the program is forever changing. So don't just stop down once, stop down on a regular basis.
[00:27:23] Tom: We also have other programs on CKUA, Why Cut Country, Terry David Mulligan does Mulligan Stew. Andy Donnelly [00:27:30] is the, the authority in Celtic music. He's from, uh, Scotland. We have so many programs that really reach beyond, uh, we say contemporary or commercial radio. And I think we reach into the audience's heart in many, many cases.
[00:27:44] Rosalyn: Well, Tom, thank you so much. I feel like I could talk to you all day about this. And so I hope that we get a chance to do it again, soon. It's been such a pleasure to chat with you.
[00:27:53] Tom: well. Thank you for making this easy. Thank you very much. Pleasure.
Credits
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[00:28:03] Rosalyn: That's all for this episode, friends. The ReFolkUs Podcast is brought to you by Folk Music Ontario. Find out more by heading to folkmusicontario.org/refolkus. That's R-E-F-O-L-K-U-S. The podcast is produced by Kayla Nezon and Rosalyn Dennett and mixed by Jordan Moore at The Pod Cabin. The opening theme is by King Cardiac, and the artwork is by Jaymie Karn.