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Zero Click Marketing is a marketing strategy podcast about content marketing, audience research, and how brands grow when clicks matter less. Hosted by Amanda Natividad, Chief Evangelist at SparkToro, the show explores how marketers reach audiences, build influence, and earn attention in a zero-click internet. New to the show? Start with Episode 2: What Zero Click Marketing Actually Is.
[00:00:00] Kaleigh Moore: When you find the right person who's very hands on with the product, is talking to the customers, is solving problems, is experimenting, that is such a great source of information for content. Super valuable, unique point of view. This isn't published anywhere else because it's all firsthand experienced.
[00:00:16] Kaleigh Moore: Those people, when you set them up with the right framework and the right structure for content and, and just kind of get them rolling, that is really, really powerful.
[00:00:26] Amanda Natividad: I'm Amanda Natividad and welcome to Zero Click Marketing.
[00:00:32] Amanda Natividad: Kaleigh, thank you for joining this podcast. I'm super pumped because I've talked a little bit about the how to content side of Zero Click Marketing of what it takes to win and like the AI answers all that good stuff, but it's only been my perspective so far. So I'm super excited to bring you on because I know you've been really deep diving in all of this and your career history as a really experienced writer.
[00:01:00] Amanda Natividad: So. I'm just really excited to talk to someone who's approaching the A-E-O-G-E-O stuff. With truly the high competence in writing, in content development, in content strategy. Before this, you were focused on e-commerce writing. How do you feel about moving on from e-commerce?
[00:01:22] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah.
[00:01:23] Amanda Natividad: To the AI stuff.
[00:01:25] Kaleigh Moore: I had my Forbes column in the retail vertical for seven years in December.
[00:01:29] Kaleigh Moore: They laid a bunch of us off because I think things, again, are shifting towards ai. And so that for me was a real moment when I had to think about, do I wanna stay in the swim lane for the rest of my foreseeable future, or do I wanna pivot? And I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I wanted to do next.
[00:01:46] Kaleigh Moore: As we were talking about before this call, I had a couple of opportunities that were outsourced to ai. And so to me that was the slap on the head of like, Hey, you need to start leaning into ai. And so pivoting away from e-commerce and retail felt like a strategic shift in that I needed to, I needed to expand my niche a little bit, and so now I focus mostly on B2B software, which E-commerce and the Shopifys and the BigCommerce of the world were part of.
[00:02:10] Kaleigh Moore: But I needed to step back a little bit because I felt like that was too narrow of a focus. And the way that e-commerce and retail uses AI and a EO and AI search and they think about all those things is very different than software as a service. So I felt more, I guess just I had more context on the B2B SaaS side of things.
[00:02:30] Kaleigh Moore: So that's, that's kind of how that decision played out.
[00:02:34] Amanda Natividad: Cool. I mean, what a way to turn lemons into lemonade.
[00:02:37] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I certainly spent a few months just floundering and feeling very overwhelmed and very behind. So if anyone else is feeling that way, saying,
[00:02:47] Amanda Natividad: but then as a writer, like a reporter writer, and you know, someone who researches a lot.
[00:02:54] Amanda Natividad: You also know how to learn things, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. So how did you get started in like, when you're like, all right, I'm gonna l learn more about this world.
[00:03:04] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah,
[00:03:05] Amanda Natividad: why you next?
[00:03:06] Kaleigh Moore: I gave myself one project a week, you know, I started listening to a couple podcasts, started trying to learn the glossary of vocabulary terms so I could listen to podcasts and understand what they were talking about.
[00:03:17] Kaleigh Moore: Gave myself one project a week. Then it turned into, let me try one T new tool. So I would do the university if they had one, go through the knowledge base on a tool, get really competent on how to use it, how to talk about it, how to think about it, would kind of. Prioritize those efforts based on what are the names I'm hearing most often the clients that I'm working with, what are they talking about using?
[00:03:38] Kaleigh Moore: So yeah, just really chipping away at it systematically and getting hands on. I feel like when I initially was just like passively learning and, and listening to the podcast and reading things, I still felt very intimidated. It wasn't until I started getting in the tools and getting hands on that I felt like, oh, okay, this isn't as hard as I thought it was.
[00:03:54] Kaleigh Moore: I can figure this out, et cetera.
[00:03:56] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. That's cool. And you know, I mean, to that point though, those niche podcasts. Are a really good way to upskill fast because you, they
[00:04:04] Kaleigh Moore: are
[00:04:05] Amanda Natividad: right, because you learn like the terminology. You're like, oh, that word sounds important. I should look that up. Or you're like, oh, that's how you say that.
[00:04:12] Kaleigh Moore: Of course, of course.
[00:04:15] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So something we've covered a little bit on this show before is some of the initial technical stuff around GEO and AI answers. I have talked a little bit about like, make sure, you know, the, the AI tools can crawl your website, make sure it's readable, all those things.
[00:04:35] Amanda Natividad: But what I haven't covered a lot of is. The like, well, how do you do things? You know? And I think there's so much content out there that's like, don't get left behind, bro. Like get on chat GPT, bro. Like look what this cool, look at all these cool things I made. But there's not a lot of like, okay, but how do you dive into this?
[00:04:56] Amanda Natividad: How do you leverage these tools with a discerning eye? How do you do this correctly? Like one thing you've pointed out, um. Is that okay? There are a lot of content teams or teams that are using AI and sure the output is up, but the quality is really inconsistent. And I know that you've been doing a lot of work in doing this actual work, but also trying to like, give people a framework for how to do this.
[00:05:25] Amanda Natividad: Can you tell me a little bit about that and like how you go about doing this correctly?
[00:05:31] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, so I think it, it all started from exactly what you said of. A lot of content teams are being told to 10 x content production, and what happens is the quality bar kind of goes to the wayside. And so the source signal stack is the mental model that I use to explain to brands.
[00:05:46] Kaleigh Moore: There are essentially four levels and you have to think like an LLM, it thinks and evaluates content. So it's, it's looking at content, it's looking at who's the author of this, what's their expertise, what kind of data is referenced. So a lot of SEO best practices, right? Like this is kind of content marketing 1 0 1.
[00:06:04] Kaleigh Moore: What doesn't always carry over is that third party validation offsite is so important within the AI context and so. I think brands really need to think about layers three and four of the source signal stack, which are essentially getting your employee experts to start offering content either on LinkedIn or on on the company blog, or leveraging B2B creators on places like LinkedIn, YouTube, having a presence within Reddit is a huge piece of all of this, so it's not just about.
[00:06:37] Kaleigh Moore: First party publishing on the blog, sending out the newsletter. You have to think about all these efforts way more holistically now, which is probably how it always should have been, but it's not so shortsighted to just what are our own properties and what kind of content are we putting there? It's how do we show up across the entire ecosystem of the internet?
[00:06:55] Kaleigh Moore: It's a really big challenge and a lot of marketing teams I think, are really struggling with this. But I mean, zero click is a huge piece of all of this. So I think you know this probably better than most.
[00:07:05] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, I appreciate this. I mean, to your point, what you were saying about like getting employee experts to publish or leveraging.
[00:07:12] Amanda Natividad: B2B creators. I mean, the other thing there too is Reddit and LinkedIn are among the most cited domains or URLs, right in the AI answers. I feel like we're both circling around this idea that like a lot of this stuff, you know, like making sure you're a content is you have the context, you have reputable authors, right?
[00:07:32] Amanda Natividad: So like the s, some of those SEO best practices, plus getting that third party validation. I feel like a lot of this is circling around. The ways that we should have always been doing marketing. Yes. Right? Absolutely. People like you and me were like, our worlds are a little bit more, like more content, more brand adjacent, more PR adjacent, where I would just wager that for us we're like, yes, this is what we've been saying.
[00:07:57] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah. And I think, I think we have seen companies kind of get on board with this. Mm-hmm. Where maybe the founder or the CEO is on LinkedIn doing the thought leadership thing and that's a piece of the puzzle. I just think it needs to expand quite a bit and quite quickly if people want to keep up. So that's why I'm beating this drum of get your employees on LinkedIn.
[00:08:14] Kaleigh Moore: This is not just employee advocacy. This is, let them put a stake in the ground and say, I think this about X when everybody else thinks Y. And then build out a content plan around that. What does your Reddit presence look like? What do you look like on YouTube? Are you working with creators who are doing, you know, tutorials and things like that?
[00:08:31] Kaleigh Moore: And so, yeah, it's just way more involved. And like you said, it probably always should have been this way.
[00:08:35] Amanda Natividad: I mean, something I'm so curious about now. I mean, is the measurement side. Like I have a way that I've been kind of looking at about looking at all of this stuff. It's not always like the right way or the most scalable way.
[00:08:48] Amanda Natividad: I kind of, I, I look at a lot of those like early signals of, okay, are people seeing this? Are they talking about this topic? Are they paying attention? I look at like. You know, uh, at Spark Toro we essentially do a lot of PR and events. And when we have those key moments, we annotate it in Google Analytics.
[00:09:07] Amanda Natividad: So if there are little spikes in traffic or conversions, we can almost always tell like, oh, that's because Rand spoke at Social Media Strategy Summit last week. It's probably that. And a lot of it is because we're able to do the, we're a lean team, right? So we don't have like 50 different things happening at the same time.
[00:09:24] Amanda Natividad: So we kind of can stagger that. My rambly way of saying like, what are the ways that you are measuring success? And you don't have to. You don't, I mean, you can answer this in two ways, but you don't have to answer this. Like, here's what companies need to do. It could just be like, this is what I care about.
[00:09:40] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah. So attribution is hard with all of this, and I think a big piece of this conversation is that. The way LLMs like Claude Chatt, BT, perplexity, all these tools come up with the citations that they do. It is a black box, so there is no one size fits all to like, this is how we figure out what's being.
[00:10:00] Kaleigh Moore: Sided and we attribution is this perfect, clean, black and white thing. It is pretty gray area, at least right now. And so I do the same thing as you. I look at what's causing traffic spikes. I look at how quickly are the articles I'm publishing on a place like LinkedIn, surfacing two spots, one through three on Google.
[00:10:20] Kaleigh Moore: What's really crazy is that especially with the thought leadership and the long form newsletters and the articles on LinkedIn, you can get in spot one within 24 hours, which I feel like was such a tough, tough thing before. So I think that that's also a piece of the thought leadership and having a named framework and, and being very specific about your subject matter expertise.
[00:10:39] Kaleigh Moore: But. Looking at things like that to quick turnaround of how quickly is this surfacing within either AI overviews or it's in spot number one within an organic Google search. I don't have a clean system, and there are lots of fancy tools out there that can help with tracking these efforts, but a lot of it is just kind of like you said, I, oh, I noticed a spike today.
[00:10:59] Kaleigh Moore: Let me go dig into the analytics and see what's causing that. Did this get cited somewhere else? Did someone reference it? How often am I hearing my name framework come up on LinkedIn? There are lots of different ways to go about it and I, I think it's going to get more clear and concrete as we get a little bit further down the road.
[00:11:15] Kaleigh Moore: But all of this is so new. I mean, this didn't exist 18 months ago-ish. So it's, it feels very wild, wild west. I don't know about you, but it feel, it certainly feels that way to me.
[00:11:25] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, no, I fully agree. And I, I mean, it's all changing so quickly too. Like, I don't know if you can hear like the hesitation in my voice when I say like G-E-O-A-E-O, because
[00:11:37] Kaleigh Moore: what are we calling it
[00:11:38] Amanda Natividad: exactly?
[00:11:39] Amanda Natividad: Right. Because it's like, well, I think a EO is like under the umbrella of GEO and, uh, in a way doesn't, doesn't matter because I think. We're usually just referring to like all of this as like a nebulous blob and like how do we find success in this blob and like. It was also reminding me when, as Rand and I have been finishing up our Zero Click Marketing book, we do have a chapter on AI marketing, but we've rewritten that chapter like six times.
[00:12:08] Amanda Natividad: Like,
[00:12:08] Kaleigh Moore: man, it is hard to put out a book on anything AI related right now.
[00:12:12] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. I mean like we don't, we don't need it to be like 100% accurate, but like we have tried really hard to make it at least like, okay, is this going to. Is this going to stand the test of time for the most part, you know? So we took out some details about like how often the models are updated.
[00:12:30] Amanda Natividad: Like, I think we, we had previously said like, oh, these get updated like every nine months or so, but like, that's not gonna be true. Like. I mean, Claude gets updated like 10 times a day
[00:12:43] Kaleigh Moore: constantly. Constantly. Yes. And and that's the other thing too, with it all being so black boxy, is that we don't know when changes are coming.
[00:12:49] Kaleigh Moore: We dunno what the changes are gonna be. They're not giving us a lot to work with as marketers. So yeah, it's, it feels like a moving target a lot of the time.
[00:12:57] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. And I think a lot of the work you and I are doing is around like, okay, how can we find success in a more durable way? Yeah. So I, I think you and I are less.
[00:13:07] Amanda Natividad: Like super worried about like what are the bots doing right now? Are they crawling this page? You have this script, right? I'm not saying that doesn't matter, it's just that a lot of those things are very fast changing. The things that at least I think right, aren't going to change are the things like, do you have reputable, trusted authors saying the things that they are qualified to say?
[00:13:29] Kaleigh Moore: Right?
[00:13:30] Amanda Natividad: Whether that's an employee who has a, has a point of view about the product or whether that's a true subject matter expert talk like deep diving on a certain topic.
[00:13:39] Kaleigh Moore: It's a lot of SEO fundamentals, you know, and it's a lot of journal journalism best practices to. Of, do you have third party sources?
[00:13:46] Kaleigh Moore: Have you used the inverted pyramid to structure your article where the bulk of the meat is at the top and then you funnel down from there? Do you have a nut graph? There's a lot of overlap between all these disciplines, I guess, and so a lot of it boils down to just really high quality content that people walk away from thinking, oh wow, I really learned something.
[00:14:04] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Oh, that's so right. I kind of. Forgot about the journalism aspect. Yeah, you're, I mean, you're totally spot on. Like a lot of, like, pretty much all of that matters here.
[00:14:13] Kaleigh Moore: It does. It's super relevant and, and I hope to see more journalists pivot, pivot into this work because they're so well positioned to, to do it.
[00:14:20] Kaleigh Moore: Well,
[00:14:21] Amanda Natividad: let's talk about the employee experts. Yeah. So you talked about like, how do you engage employee experts or just employees to publish on LinkedIn? What kind of success are you seeing in the companies or the employers that are enabling this?
[00:14:34] Kaleigh Moore: So you have to find and screen for employees who are invested in doing the work, who have a strong opinion, they feel confident talking about in a public forum like LinkedIn, and they have to have the time.
[00:14:46] Kaleigh Moore: So I think those are the three main qualifiers that I think about in what makes a good candidate and what makes for a successful program. But I just do think that when you find the right person who's very hands on with the product, is talking to the customers, is solving problems, is experimenting, that is such a great source of information for content.
[00:15:05] Kaleigh Moore: Super valuable, unique point of view. This isn't published anywhere else because it's all firsthand experienced. Those people when you set them up with the right framework and the right structure for content and, and just kind of get them rolling. That is really, really powerful and I have seen incredible results, not just for SEO but for the AI visibility piece too in a very short time span.
[00:15:28] Kaleigh Moore: So a lot of opportunity there and I think that this is something you know super well too. So I wanna hear like, how are you thinking about this?
[00:15:36] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, I mean, wait one, sorry. When you said first buy-in is hard, so you're saying buy-in for the employees themselves, not from, not buy-in from the executives.
[00:15:46] Kaleigh Moore: Buy-in from the employees themself, because that's
[00:15:48] Amanda Natividad: interesting.
[00:15:49] Kaleigh Moore: There's a couple things happening here. Number one, they're feeling like I have a 20 pounds in my 10 pound bag already. I don't have time for this. And number two, I don't have anything to say. That's a big one. And really it's just a matter of put your journalism cap on, talk to them, pull out their insights, and oftentimes you will find, oh, they do have opinions.
[00:16:06] Kaleigh Moore: They maybe just didn't realize it. So it's kind of this figuring out every, like I said, everybody says this in the industry, but what do you believe that kind of pushes against that? That's informed by your experience. Digging up that nugget is really, really valuable. And then the other thing too is people feel nervous about getting on social media and being a creator.
[00:16:26] Kaleigh Moore: 'cause you kind of are asking them to be a creator. It's a very visible, very vulnerable thing. It's hard.
[00:16:31] Amanda Natividad: I just think it's so interesting you brought up that point because it sounds so obvious now because, I mean, I just often tend to hear about this from the flip side perspective of like, how do I get buy-in from my boss and being able to post here?
[00:16:43] Amanda Natividad: But you're right. I think the problem you're describing is probably the far more common one, where you have the executives who are like, fine, we're in. How do I get my team to do it?
[00:16:52] Kaleigh Moore: Yes.
[00:16:53] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. People are like, I just wanna clock in and go home. Maybe.
[00:16:56] Kaleigh Moore: Yes. Or it's not a
[00:16:56] Amanda Natividad: bad thing.
[00:16:57] Kaleigh Moore: Right. Or they're like a very technical person.
[00:16:59] Kaleigh Moore: They're a developer, they're a project manager. They are working closely with the product and they're just like, I don't have time for this LinkedIn thing. You know? So it can go both ways, for sure.
[00:17:09] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. Okay, so two things came to mind here. When I think about good or effective employee, sort of employee advocacy programs, I think a lot about this company Dream Data.
[00:17:19] Amanda Natividad: They're sort of like revenue intelligence platforms, so B2B, but they have an employee advocacy program and so like the CEO posts. But then so do some of the folks in the marketing and sales teams, and I think one of the women on the marketing team has the, has the most followers. Like I think she has more followers than even the CEO, but they're all just posting.
[00:17:39] Amanda Natividad: Just their thoughts on like revenue or like marketing attribution, ways to figure this out when you don't have a big tech stack or, yep. Sometimes even just like, hey, like, I'm really excited about my job for these reasons. And the result is like, I feel like we see like, oh, these are people at work who like their jobs and who do cool things.
[00:18:02] Amanda Natividad: You know? It doesn't feel to me like, oh, they're, it's a commercial. It, it just feels like it's like. Coworkers in my LinkedIn feed.
[00:18:11] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, there's a nice authenticity factor there, which I think is also again, very important within the LLM context. You know, they want authentic, they don't want copy paste from an AI tool.
[00:18:21] Kaleigh Moore: They want actual, authentic experience based things, because that's what AI can't do. It doesn't have lived experience. Right. So. People who do that is your new most valuable asset.
[00:18:32] Amanda Natividad: And one thing they do, so like all their content's different. I mean, 'cause they're all human beings. One thing they do that is always the same is they all have the same link in their headline.
[00:18:42] Amanda Natividad: Like in that top part of LinkedIn, they all have the same link and it's to book a demo.
[00:18:45] Kaleigh Moore: Smart.
[00:18:45] Amanda Natividad: So what's really cool is like since they've been doing this advocacy program, they've seen a lot more demos booked. So they, they might not know like, okay, well, whose profile is driving the most? Or maybe they do know, right?
[00:19:00] Amanda Natividad: But maybe they don't. I would wager that they probably don't care that much. Whether one person is driving 50 demos and one, one other person's driving 46, like they're probably like, the point is like, these things matter, or these things work at scale. It doesn't work when you're just, when it's just one person doing this alone and you're putting the pressure on them to be like, did you get one more demo this week?
[00:19:26] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, and I think that's a good call out too. This is an effort for three to five employees. This is not a one. Man show, and I think for a long time it has been a one man show or one woman show because it's been the CEO or the founder doing this work. And so when you expand it to the employees, I do think it needs to be a group effort, a team effort.
[00:19:44] Amanda Natividad: I was thinking about like my time back at Fitbit where like none of us at Fitbit really had like. A forward facing presence, you know, like, or maybe some people did, I don't remember who, but there were a lot of folks internally like who would lead cross-functional meetings or who would do sort of like talks for other, for other team meetings to be like, Hey, here's a peek into the world of ux.
[00:20:08] Amanda Natividad: Here's what I do. And there were so many people who were just super talented, super smart. Really good at their jobs and who also just had this generous spirit of like, I really wanna share what I'm working on. And so that has me thinking in hindsight or if that were to happen today, right? It's like, oh, these would be the perfect people to be posting on LinkedIn.
[00:20:29] Amanda Natividad: 'cause like they have so much like intrinsic care and motivation about their job. They genuinely wanna solve these problems. And you can see that excitement and that passion like in their personality and in their voice. And I'm like, oh. Those are the best people to have.
[00:20:43] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you have any sort of initiative like that at your company, I mean, truly, you could even just film those and use that as the LinkedIn content.
[00:20:51] Kaleigh Moore: I mean, you could repurpose it and repackage it into, okay, turn this into 10 weeks worth of content based on this one hour session you led for the group. And I think also too, it's a great way to identify people who feel comfortable being up in front of other people. 'cause again, LinkedIn is kind of that.
[00:21:08] Kaleigh Moore: So yeah, that's a great way to kind of reverse engineer who would be good candidates for this.
[00:21:12] Amanda Natividad: Yeah. And to your point, like you can record that. Put it on your YouTube channel. Yeah. You know, do some optimization around the headlines because Oh yeah, you would do that anyway, but, and then plus it could like over time it could also become like a recruiting tool.
[00:21:27] Kaleigh Moore: Oh,
[00:21:28] Amanda Natividad: for sure. For sure. People see it and they're like, oh, that could be me.
[00:21:30] Kaleigh Moore: Yep. That could be me. Or look at all the cool things that they're doing. Look at this great company culture they have. That's the great thing about this. Employees as creators type of initiatives, like it accomplishes so many things.
[00:21:41] Kaleigh Moore: It's good for AI visibility, it's good for company culture. It helps with recruiting. It's a great source of information for future content or repurposing, repackaging. It does a lot of things at once.
[00:21:52] Amanda Natividad: So the thing you said earlier about it was related, well, it was about the employee experts. I really like that you were thinking about a couple of questions or ways to get people thinking, to get employees thinking about what they could say.
[00:22:06] Amanda Natividad: One thing really stood out to me was like something you hear a lot is employees saying, I don't have anything to say. And I think that also is broadly applicable. To anybody who has like. A little bit of that feeling of wanting to be a creator, but they kind of back down and go, oh, I don't have anything to say.
[00:22:22] Amanda Natividad: What do you say to that? Like what's your advice to people?
[00:22:25] Kaleigh Moore: There are certainly two kinds of people. There are people who have thoughts and opinions and maybe just haven't been able to surface them, but once you find them, they are so excited to lean into this work and to just run with it. But then there are also people who don't really have strong thoughts or opinions, and like you said, they want to just come and do the work and not have to do this other thing.
[00:22:43] Kaleigh Moore: So I think you have to filter for what's actually true, and it's a. Often a personality trait kind of thing of are you comfortable with this? Do you want to do it? Does it excite you? Does it, does it motivate you, et cetera. But I think also. Probing and doing that journalistic style interview is a great way to dig up and asking questions about what's, what's a question you hear all day long and how do you solve for it?
[00:23:05] Kaleigh Moore: And maybe what would you want other people at your company to know if they were thinking, oh, I, I think the general consensus amongst our customers is this, what, what's the reality of what you see day to day? And then start asking questions that support that initial. Query kind of, which is the same way you should think about AI search.
[00:23:24] Kaleigh Moore: This all just ties back together. But yeah, digging up that little nugget, and again, put your journalism cap on and get really curious and ask somebody. I think the status quo is this, is that true? And often from there you will find, ah, there's the thing that we can lean into.
[00:23:39] Amanda Natividad: I think digging into the status quo, pushing back against it is just such a great place to start because that's where you get people thinking about like, oh, I don't agree with this thing.
[00:23:49] Amanda Natividad: And it, you know, whether or not they're right in that moment of like brainstorming and creating and working through drafts. It doesn't, doesn't really matter yet. Let's just work through it. We'll see what's here and like, let's figure out how we can get this to a. Finished product that you feel comfortable posting about publicly.
[00:24:09] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, and I think the other thing too is why do, why do you push against this status quo? What from your, again, lived experience and hands-on work, experimentation, talking to customers, working with customers, what's the data you have that's unique to you that we can leverage to support this claim you're making?
[00:24:25] Kaleigh Moore: So yeah, again, those conversations are really, really insightful, both for the interviewer and for the person, because they're like, oh, I didn't even, I hadn't thought about that.
[00:24:35] Amanda Natividad: It is one piece of unsolicited advice I would give to people. And it says to anybody who is early in the creator journey, whether or not you self-identify as a creator, right?
[00:24:46] Amanda Natividad: 'cause somebody might be an employee posting and they're like, I'm not a creator, I'm just posting things. That's fine. Something I I, a fear that I hear a lot is, well, what if nobody engages? And like, I don't get a lot of likes and it's embarrassing. And I get it, even today, I still have a couple posts per month that are total clunkers and like no one engaged.
[00:25:11] Amanda Natividad: I'm like, well, it happens. The thing I always say to that is. Well, if not a lot of people engage with it or like it, that means it won't get a lot of reach, which means people won't see it. Which really just means if, if you only got like two likes, then people won't see it anyway. Just move on.
[00:25:30] Kaleigh Moore: Right. And it's informing your data set.
[00:25:31] Kaleigh Moore: Okay. This one didn't work. They can't all be winners, you know? We know this. As marketers, you've got to throw things out to see what sticks and what doesn't. And it's just part of the process.
[00:25:40] Amanda Natividad: Totally. It's just data.
[00:25:41] Kaleigh Moore: Yep. Just new information. Okay. That didn't work. Onto the next thing.
[00:25:46] Amanda Natividad: Okay. One of the, one of the last sort of questions I have for you is, let's talk about underrated.
[00:25:52] Amanda Natividad: Underrated high impact stuff like,
[00:25:55] Kaleigh Moore: Ooh, yeah,
[00:25:56] Amanda Natividad: somebody's gonna get started next week on Monday. What is an underrated high impact or high leverage program or tactic they can start on? Then
[00:26:07] Kaleigh Moore: I have started publishing my newsletter every week on LinkedIn as a newsletter there, and it is an expansion of my syndication, essentially, but that has been great for AI search efforts.
[00:26:19] Kaleigh Moore: I do see LinkedIn in the very near future, becoming a huge newsletter hub. So if you have a newsletter, already syndicated it there or do like a slightly different version there. That has been great for me. I have grown to almost 2000 followers, I think in the span of a few weeks, so there's a great opportunity for eyeballs there.
[00:26:39] Kaleigh Moore: It ranks really, really well, builds thought leadership and it's very engaging. I've had really high engagement on all those sins, so I would say do that.
[00:26:48] Amanda Natividad: What? Yeah, that's blowing my mind right now. Yeah, so I, I think especially because you're saying the word syndicate, so you're not saying that you have to create very unique, discreet content.
[00:27:00] Amanda Natividad: You can. Re repurpose or copy and paste.
[00:27:04] Kaleigh Moore: So what I do is I send out my newsletter to my subscribers, and then I publish it on LinkedIn as a long form newsletter there, which is essentially the same thing as an article there. And then I will put it on my website. And what I'm starting to think is maybe the, the long form published public facing ungated version just lives on LinkedIn because that's where I'm seeing the highest return.
[00:27:24] Kaleigh Moore: And I know that sometimes duplicate content can be bad for SEO. So. Running some experiments right now, but yeah, I'm, I'm just seeing a lot of return from syndicating to LinkedIn.
[00:27:33] Amanda Natividad: That's cool. And you said 2000 more followers? Yeah. So that's, yeah,
[00:27:37] Kaleigh Moore: 2000 subscribers
[00:27:39] Amanda Natividad: subscribe. Is that different from followers?
[00:27:41] Amanda Natividad: It
[00:27:41] Kaleigh Moore: is. It is. Okay. What's nice is you can put the view my newsletter right in your, it's a clickable thing, right? In your headline that people see within the feed. So it's a really fast paced to growth. No, I haven't spent any money on advertising this, and it's just grown that fast organically. So I just think there's a lot of potential there.
[00:27:59] Amanda Natividad: Dude, that's cool. Yeah, that is so good. I wanna hang up on you and like set mine up right now.
[00:28:04] Kaleigh Moore: Go do it now.
[00:28:04] Amanda Natividad: Gotta go Kaleigh. I don't have time for this.
[00:28:07] Kaleigh Moore: Yes,
[00:28:08] Amanda Natividad: uh, but on that note. My last question for you is, so you've been very generous just now in sharing all your insights with us. What is the best place, or where is the best place for people to learn more from you?
[00:28:20] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, I would say LinkedIn. That is where I'm focusing all my time and energy these days. I have newsletter there, which is called Context Window, but I publish almost seven days a week. I've made a goal to publish super, super consistently there, like you said, to grow the muscle and yeah, that's where I spend all my time.
[00:28:35] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, too much time in fact.
[00:28:38] Amanda Natividad: But I like seeing you there. It makes me happy.
[00:28:40] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, I know. Twitter's not what it used to be. I feel like Twitter used to be our water cooler, so we've gotta have a new one. And LinkedIn happens to be the spot.
[00:28:47] Amanda Natividad: Yeah, that's the spot. Thank you so much for joining, Kaleigh. This was
[00:28:51] Kaleigh Moore: fun.
[00:28:51] Kaleigh Moore: Yeah, this was fun. Thank you.
[00:28:52] Amanda Natividad: Thank you for listening or watching Zero Click Marketing. We'll see you next week.