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Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them. How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success, and most importantly, find joy.
Your Host is New York Times bestselling author Rupert Isaacson. Long time human rights activist, Rupert helped a group of Bushmen in the Kalahari fight for their ancestral lands. He's probably best known for his autism advocacy work following the publication of his bestselling book "The Horse Boy" and "The Long Ride Home" where he tells the story of finding healing for his autistic son. Subsequently he founded New Trails Learning Systems an approach for addressing neuro-psychiatric conditions through horses, movement and nature. The methods are now used around the world in therapeutic riding program, therapy offices and schools for special needs and neuro-typical children.
 You can find details of all our programs and shows on www.RupertIsaacson.com
Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free
Ride Free, where we talk to people who
have lived self-actualized lives on
their own terms, and find out how they
got there, what they do, how we can
get there, what we can learn from them.
How to live our best lives, find
our own definition of success,
and most importantly, find joy.
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.
Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.
You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free where
we talk to people leading self-actualized
lives finding out how they got there.
What they do how they make it work.
What can we learn from them?
How can we take this into our daily lives?
And today I've got Sophia Valenza.
Now, if you are in the horse
world, you may or may not know
who the Valenza family are.
They to some degree
are a well kept secret.
If you are in the world of classical
dressage you probably do know the name
and if you live in Europe and you've
ever seen This amazing show that goes
around called Cavaluna, which is sort
of like Cirque du Soleil with horses.
Well, you may or may not know that
they are a large part of that.
If you ever were seeing some of the big
equestrian shows like, Cavalia and so
on in the USA these really had their
inspiration from a lot of this work.
That has been done by the Valencia
family over many, many years,
but it's a greater story there.
And it's not limited to horses and horse
stuff because they represent the, the,
the Valencia family really represent a
culture within Europe, within Portugal
that is a hangover, a survivor, you could
say really from the Baroque age and.
It's almost like a national treasure
that exists there in Lisbon with
Sophia, her father and her sisters
running this extraordinary,
extraordinary place, but where they're
really a bit of a dream factory.
So whether you're into horses or not,
if you've, if you've had a sort of
dream of a fairy tale forest and horses
doing something in that, and you want
to go and look at that show or you
want to be part of that, or you've,
that's sort of what they do and they've
been doing it for decades and doing
it very, very well, but it's not easy.
It's the kind of thing many of us
would love to do, run away with a
circus, but they are the circus.
So, Sophia.
Thank you for coming
on live free ride free.
Tell us who you are.
Sofia Valenca: Well, thank you for
your invitation it's really a pleasure
to be part of this and Who am I?
Oh, I'm just a lucky girl that was
born in this family and I was lucky
enough to be able to grow up watching
my father teaching and learning
from him And in a very natural way.
So he was never forcing us to be in
this life was a life we chose and we
do it with a great, great passion.
It's really important to be in this life.
If you just, if you don't have the
passion, it's could be a disaster
because it's usually we say, if you
do what you love, you don't have
to work a single day in your life.
And this is what I do.
I don't work a single day in my life,
and I live not on holidays because
it's, it's quite a hard work, but
it's done with a lot of passion.
So, who am I?
I am just a girl that grew up around
animals, and I was always moved by the
passion of being surrounded with animals.
Animals, not just horses, but dogs.
And I was always like, you know, I
was the one always bringing dogs home.
I was the one only always having
more connection with the horses,
not just being riding them, but,
you know, creating good connections.
And yeah, I can, I'm able, I'm able,
no, I'm fortunate to be able to have
them every single day of my life.
So, what we do and you were, it was really
enjoyable to listen the way you describe
what we do because it's, it's true.
We live like in a fairy tale.
And when people come to us.
It's a little bit what we provide.
It's experiment, a dream, a dream
that they can bring home and then
start to create with their own horses.
And this is a little bit what we try
to do, not just with the shows, like
you said, and it's not just some people
come and they say, it's not just a
circus, or if you come here, it's
not, you will not just see the show.
You will see A real school and
when I say a real school, it's
not just about learning or how we.
might teach you to deal with your
horse or to understand or to develop
a language that will help you
to understand better your horse.
It's also a school of life.
And today we were here with some clients,
a lady from the United States, and she
was amazed the way we handle the horses,
the way she feels how happily the horses
live and how happily they work every day.
That it's, it's really beautiful.
So it's, it's, it's a bless.
I think it's a bless to be
able to do what we do daily.
Rupert Isaacson: So for those listeners
who don't really know what we mean
by the word classical dressage.
Let me just enlighten you a bit.
The word classical means handed
down from generation to generation.
Dressage comes from this word
in, it's a Viking word actually,
dresir, which means to put together.
That's why you have salad dressing.
That's why you are dressed
when you wear your clothes.
You dress a horse, you put it together.
And in this old manner of doing it, which
arose On the steps where Europe meets Asia
5, 000 years ago, probably, but they have
a very hot type of horse and the locals,
they went, well, I might be quite useful
for, you know, making that an extension
of my thoughts on the battlefield.
I wonder how I do that.
And they figured out this system.
Which got passed down, ended up in
Mesopotamia with the Persians and
the Babylonians and ended up going
over to Greece as those guys went
to war with the Europeans and then
of course the Europeans took it on.
As the classical civilizations of the
Mediterranean, Greece and Rome mostly,
expanded west, they encountered these
Ibero Celtic tribes down in the southern
end of what is now Spain and Portugal.
Where they found a particular kind
of horse, which was even better in
the battlefield, even better for
working the livestock, even better
for everything than the horses that
originally were coming out of Persia.
And so, and through the Renaissance
a number of great masters developed.
And if you've gone to an art gallery,
you've seen pictures of monarchs.
of kings and queens of Europe
sitting on these very beautiful
horses in the 17th and 18th
century, and they all look the same.
They all have these big necks,
they have these big flowy manes,
they're very, very beautiful and
they look like they're dancing.
And that's the horse that
was found in this part of the
Mediterranean and ended up being
exported out to the rest of Europe.
And everyone ever since then
has looked down to this area of
Europe for the expertise in this.
And This is the line that Sophia's
family and Sophia's father have
promulgated and create, allowed to
be a living culture even to this day.
So when you enter their riding
hall, you basically feel like you're
going back to the 18th century.
It's really extraordinary.
It's like, oh my gosh, I'm
in one of those paintings.
It's like, oh, that sort of exists.
That's real.
Oh, how wonderful.
How amazing.
So, Sophia, tell us about
this Lusitano horse.
What is it?
that made the Greeks, the Romans,
and everybody else and their dog
throughout the medieval period,
throughout the renaissance, and
ever since go That is the horse.
That is the meta horse.
This is the horse.
Why?
Why is it the meta horse?
Sofia Valenca: Because, you
know, we need to go back in time.
And the horse was created by the nature.
And the natural selection of this horse,
which is still nowadays the same horse
that The same kind, the same type of horse
that you were talking from those times.
That horse who create this horse was
The living together with the bull,
the wild bull, the ones that we still
have nowadays that were used on the,
that are used still on the bullfights.
And what what happened is that
this bull created a Nali, a pact
living together with the horses.
And this bull is very aggressive.
They can live together, but
they have a very fine line.
If you cross that territory, the
bull will attack you to kill.
So this is where it starts.
The men, the natural selection of these
horses, these Siberian horses that are
very fast, very flexible, very agile, very
noble, very warriors, very brave, very.
There's so many positive aspects that
when they, these warriors arrived and
saw the potential of these horses for
the war, they started to, to really
work with those horses because in the
battle one-to-one, those were the horses
that could save his ride is warrior.
When the war changed and the battle one
to one didn't when the, the machine guns,
sorry, when the machine guns arrived, the
type of horses needed in the battlefield
was another type of horses, was when
you have the cavalry where they need
to run on a straight line because then
they were charging with machine guns.
So in Portugal, we still had,
we, we started to use those
horses for the bullfight.
So that's why they always
kept the same lines.
Of this horse that is very fast,
very agile, very playful, very brave.
And it's the same horse that is
still now used in the bullfight.
What bring us to keep the classical
dressage is that if you use a
modern dressage, training this
horse in a modern way, you will.
Destroy this, this beauty of these horses
because what we need to always keep
them updated, it's their flexibility.
And with the modern dressage,
they kind of ruin the flexibility
the way the train is doing.
So we have always.
Respect the needs of these horses
to always, always respect their
morphology, the way they should
understand their own bodies, the way
they learn how to use their own bodies.
And in a very natural
way, this is what we did.
So we have developed our method
based on the training of those
horses to always respect their best
qualities, which is the flexibility.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, you
also mentioned playfulness.
This is really interesting to me.
Because one tends to think of
dressage riders as control freaks.
You know, any of us that.
Watch the sport of dressage
on, on TV for the Olympics.
For example, we can often appreciate
it's it's looks beauty, beautiful.
Maybe it looks very controlled
perhaps and disciplined, but it
doesn't look like a lot of fun.
In fact, one could say it looks
a bit, should it be dressage
or should it be stressage?
You know, it looks a bit stressy and one
has seen horses looking a bit robotic.
Yet you mentioned this playful
nature and this, this necessity.
of respecting that sort of
joyful side of the horse.
How do you bring that in?
How do you marry that with the need for
the kind of control that you have to have
when you're doing these massive balletic
shows that you send out all over Europe?
Because they can't go wrong, right?
Sofia Valenca: No, they can't go
wrong, but also they should not be
taken as robots or like machines.
So what we need is that, and when
we start a young horse, the first
thing we do, we start to analyze
his personality, his character.
How does this horse
reacts to certain things?
And another thing we do is
that we will never destroy the
beauty of the nature of a horse.
A horse should always be able to
be a horse and to express himself.
Like you said, we, we work for
the shows, entertainment shows.
So we do need a horse
to speak to the crowd.
That horse, when it goes into the
arena, He needs to speak for himself.
He needs to, to be proud.
He goes into the scene and he goes like,
I'm here and I'm performing to you.
And with the crowd needs
to, to listen to that.
And, and I think this is one of the.
The biggest challenge is and beauty at
the same time because I prefer to have a
partner that is enjoying and you know, we
allowed him to express himself, then just,
you know, ride a bike and no emotions.
Not that they don't ride bikes and
but I think mostly of you understand.
I prefer it's not machines.
Exactly.
Rupert Isaacson: When you have a horse
though, that is so powerful playing and
being playful and expressing itself on
a stage in close proximity with several
thousand people where you're asking for
an almost sort of an explosion of energy.
How do you do that in a way allows the
horse to express himself, but not so much.
that it could become dangerous.
How do you, how do you tread that line?
Sofia Valenca: But express himself,
it's not a horse that is bucking
or a horse that is losing his mind.
Express himself is like, if I ask
him, for example, to do, imagine
we do a transition to the counter.
That horse, he needs to bring emotion
to the way he will bring himself
into that transition encounter.
It's not just, now I have this horse,
and in A, I need to do this transition
to, it's, you know, they need, if a
horse, Goes a little bit with his head
a little bit more, he can look around
if he, if his ears look a little bit
to the audience and then he comes
back to me, it's okay to do that.
It's just, they don't need to
feel like a prisoner performing
and not feeling the crowd.
But when we want them to express
themselves in a way that we will lose
their mind, because then that it's
not expression then that is stress.
So a horse needs to be calm, it needs
to be zen, it needs to be with you, and
once you have his soul, he will go to
the end of the world with you, so they
can perform to, well, 10, 000 people.
And having lights, having the sounds
and they are still enjoying and they
are still there with you performing for
you, with you to, to, to the audience.
And honestly, I, I think the best world
nowadays, if you combine this fusion of
the modern dressage with a classical way.
Honestly, I think you have the best.
way of being with a horse in the world.
And I can bring my, my, the
name of my daughter in here.
She's, she's doing dressage.
She loves dressage competition, but she
has a very nice background on the shows.
So when she performs in the dressage.
And imagine she's doing
a free freestyle test.
It's like, it's like she's performing.
She's, she's enjoying the music and
she's, it's, it's really beautiful to
see because it's the fusion of this
classical world with modern dressage
where you respect the body of the horse.
The horse has to be understand
how to bring all his beauty.
And for this, and I think that the secret
lies on, if you want to allow the horse
to express himself, he needs to work
with suppleness and using his body and
not just, you know, performing like with
stiffness or forcing him to do something,
it's, you need to allow the horse to think
on himself so that he can really bring the
Rupert Isaacson: Right, you say
when you bring the horses in in
the beginning of their training,
you analyze their personality.
Do you look for a certain showmanship?
Do you look for a certain horse that, that
does have this kind of, hey, attitude?
Is that what you're looking for?
You say, okay, that's the horse.
Which we need to bring to the
show or how are you select that
Sofia Valenca: way the way
we the way we select them?
It's it's in a so every horse will be
special on Something like every words
in the world was born for something and
if you really understand in what he's
good at He will be amazing on it, but
I cannot force a horse That was not
enough skills to be a Grand Prix horse
And I cannot force him to be a Grand
Prix horse, but maybe this horse will
be an amazing working equitation horse.
And then if you really find
his own way, he will be amazing
doing what he was born for.
That's why sometimes, you know, in
the show and you have seen our shows,
you see, we have the horses that
perform the hairs above the ground.
Not everybody is able to do a capriole.
Only a few horses in the world
are able to do a capriole.
So when you choose a horse, and
this is a very specific exercise
I'm, I'm bringing here because
I think it's easy to understand.
If a horse, well, how you see a horse
is good to make, to perform a capriole.
So first, this first behavior
has to be a little bit too spicy.
It has to really be very, very hot.
And a little bit naughty, a
little bit naughty, and then.
You will use that and
giving him the right tools.
You will be amazing doing a Capriol.
But what is important to understand
is that this horse that can be a
little bit hot, can be a little bit
naughty, can be a little bit spicy.
Once he has the basics,
you will have the power.
Of telling this horse to
control his own strength.
Otherwise it's just a crazy horse.
And unfortunately we see a lot of crazy
horses out there just because people
don't know how to deal with this hotness
and, and sometimes it's, it's hard.
And if you, you cannot just force them
to do something they were not born to do.
And, and it's really important that
we, we understand their nature and to
explore their nature in the way that
they will understand how to, to become
the horse we want them to become.
So this is just an example.
We don't search for something
special, but this horse will tell us.
is special on something and then we
will drive the horse to his speciality.
That's why, you know, in the world you
have doctors, you have mechanics, you
have engineers, you have architects.
In the end, they're all people, but
they have to choose their own way.
And the ones that are really good in the
things they have choose to be something
professionally, they become very good.
It's the same with the horses.
So again, we will not choose
them to in a certain way.
They kind of tell us what they
are good at, and then we try to.
Give them the way in the best,
in the best lines that they
would, they can perform better.
Rupert Isaacson: For those
listeners who don't know what a
capriole is let's just explain.
It's rather spectacular thing.
So I just want you to sort of shut
your eyes for a moment and what you...
Imagine you may have seen pictures
or films from maybe the Spanish
riding school of Vienna or something
like that with the white stallions,
where you see a horse jumping into
the air in a really controlled way.
And, but really high into the air
and then kicking back violently, but
controlled in this sort of balletic,
yes, sort of martial arts type movement,
kicking back with the back hooves.
The front hooves are tucked up,
maybe has a rider on the back.
Maybe it's done with people
on the ground and it's always.
Something that when the crowd sees
it, and any of us who've ever seen
it, the explosion of power always
brings an emotional reaction.
You cannot...
see an animal that beautiful doing
something like that without having this
lift of the heart where whether you know
anything about horses or not, it's it's
just flat out beautiful and The could
that controlled explosion of power is a
very very difficult and somewhat dangerous
thing to do tell us There must be a
system, there must be a method, in the
these old books that were written by these
old masters down through the centuries.
I've looked at them, I've read
actually quite a few of them.
They're unreadable.
Unfortunately, they were written by, you
know, noblemen who were not particularly
worried about editing themselves.
They were certainly not trained
as writers and they contradict
themselves every five pages.
And what they're trying to get across
is if you already happen to know
an awful lot about it, it's like
reading a book about math written by
mathematicians for mathematicians.
Because if you're outside of
that closed priesthood, it's
very hard to To understand what
on earth they're even on about.
One of the things which I found
revelatory about coming into contact
with the Valencia family was that I
had always thought that this dressage,
this classical dressage, these
beautiful movements, this sort of,
was something a little bit reserved
for a higher priesthood of writers.
Certainly that not somebody
like me could achieve.
And when I walked through the door
in Lisbon with you and your father,
Saphir, the first time, someone said,
Oh, actually, no, I can explain it.
The concept is relatively simple.
Okay, doing it's going to be quite
difficult because we're dealing with
a horse who has his own ideas and
his own nervous system and his own
sense of humor and you're the joke.
But!
Nonetheless, the concept
is relatively simple.
And when you guys explained it I realized,
Oh my gosh, this is actually replicable.
Why isn't everyone else doing this?
So can you give us the one, two, three
of what this old master system, which
you would now call Valencia method
that you've inherited from these
many centuries of equine technology,
if you like, how does it work?
What do you do?
How do you train these horses?
Sofia Valenca: But not specifically
to achieve the Caprio, correct?
Rupert Isaacson: No, just in general.
Just how do you lay the base for Where
you would eventually end up there?
Yeah,
Sofia Valenca: because in, in a very
simple way, I could explain you how we
do teach at Caprio and if, if you put
it in small fractions, it's quite easy.
But to go there first, the horse needs
to understand what its primary school.
So what we do, and it's a
little bit the same learning
process as a, as a young kid.
So we start to develop.
primary school.
And I always defend that a kid with six
years old, you will spend the first four
years on his life learning in school.
So in Portugal, they
start at six years old.
I believe in Europe, it's a
little bit the same, right?
The kids go to primary school his
first year around six years old.
And those first four years are the most
important years in the life of a student.
If those four years they are weak
giving their basics, they will have
gaps and they go to college and some
they will never finish high school.
Some never be able to go to college
because they don't understand
because the basics are not good.
So when we start, we always like
to introduce the first level.
of the Valencia Method
as the primary school.
It's where the horse starts to
develop a language that will
assess him to understand you.
You want to develop a simple language.
So that the horse starts clearly,
understand, yes, no, the basics.
Once you have that, then
you can start to progress.
And those basics that you
will start on this first stage
that we are talking about.
So we usually start the horses with
the age of three and a half years old.
Between three and a half, four and
a half, it's the best age to start.
You can always start them later.
But the more the horse lives in the
freedom, the more difficult then it will
be to start to introduce those basics.
The same happens with a kid.
If you, you leave the kids starting,
imagine you put a kid with 10 years
old to his first year of school, you're
going to be a little bit more hard
for him than a kid with six years old,
just because they are more greenish.
They know less about life
and they are more open to.
Learn in a more simple way, the kid
with 10 years old is already more
naughty because life have taught
him a little bit more things.
And then when you want to bring him to
the basics on school, sometimes it's a
little bit more hard, not impossible.
just a little bit more hard.
Before three and a half years old, we
should not start because the horses,
they are still growing and maturing.
So the perfect age is between three
and a half to four and a half.
So when you start to work them,
you really want the basics of the
basics is the horse needs to learn
that you are there as friend.
And once you have this friendship,
the horse starts to respect you
and the real mean of respect you.
Respect.
If I want the horse to respect
me, I need to respect him.
Otherwise, it will never respect him.
Based on these feelings, you start
to, to gain the, the soul of this
horse and he starts to be there
for you because he respects you,
because you have respect him.
And and then it's easy.
Then once you have his respect.
And again, respect not in the mean
that he has to be afraid of me.
I mean the real mean of respect.
I'm here for you.
Let's do this.
Let's start this journey.
I trust you.
I will go to the end
of the world with you.
Then, simply, you start
to use your body language.
You start to use your voice.
You start to use a few tools, even
before he knows the rider on top of them.
When you have this, then
you can start to progress.
And the horse will start to have some
tools that if for some reason he starts
to be more stressful, he can rely on you.
So somehow you can down the stress because
a horse under stress, he will not learn.
So it's really important that we have
to create tools to control the amount
of stress that the horse can have.
Because either you want or not,
when a horse is learning something,
sometimes they get confused and
the way they deal with confusion.
It's with stress.
So we need to be able to control
those stress to calm them down
and then he's able to learn.
So a horse under stress will never learn.
And this is really important.
We develop tools to control
those moments of stress.
Rupert Isaacson: How do you
minimize stress with a horse?
What are your go to?
Sofia Valenca: The first tool you will
have to have, the most powerful tool,
is that the horse accepts you as friend.
Because, you know, in Portugal, the horses
are born in the wild, in the nature.
And for three, during the three
years old, three years, The first
three years of their life, they do
not have much contact with the men.
So when we start to train them,
there's a lot of stress in them
because they don't trust us.
And a horse is a fleet animal.
So as soon as he's afraid of something,
his first reaction is to run away.
That's why they are still
alive in this world.
Otherwise they would be dead.
So they need to have this
instinct to protect themselves.
So if you don't have, if you
don't gain his trust, a horse will
live in, in stress all the time.
So this is our first lesson.
It's a horse coming into the arena.
And learn that we are there to be friends.
He needs to respect me.
I don't want to be his best friend
where he will sit on my lap.
I want him to always be a horse.
I want him to understand there's a line
that will super me as a human being.
I love you.
I respect you, but you
will not jump on me.
This kind of respect.
It's important that there's boundaries.
And sometimes.
It's very, very easy to let them
cross this line, this boundary.
And sometimes they want to be more
friends than they are supposed to be.
So it's also important that we are smart
enough to always design this line of.
In the end of the day, I'm your friend.
I trust you.
I love you.
But I'm still the alpha.
I need you to listen.
And once you really start to
have this feeling of being the
alpha, then you are in control.
In control in a way that the
horse is not afraid of you.
He respects you and he will be as
soon as he takes you as your alpha.
You will, you will want to follow you.
Why?
A horse will always need a half.
That's why in, in a yard, you will
erd, yard, erd, my English sometimes
it's a little bit Portuguese but
in, in the, how you say, erd?
Rupert Isaacson: In the pack?
Oh, in the herd.
In the herd.
Yes.
In the herd.
In a wild herd of horses.
Yes.
In nature.
They, they,
Sofia Valenca: they need,
they need their leader.
Right?
And then they follow.
And the leader also has to be,
usually it's the smartest horse is
the one that is more aware of dangers.
So not everybody, not every
horse was born to be a leader.
And in nature, they will
develop this leadership.
When a horse comes into the arena.
You need to show them
you are their leader.
Rupert Isaacson: How do you do that?
How do you do that in a way that
doesn't make the horse feel threatened?
Because at the end of the day,
we are a horse's predator, right?
We spent two million years hunting them.
Now suddenly we want
to sit on their backs.
How do we cross that line?
Predators are predators.
Sofia Valenca: Exactly.
You need to really have a very good body
language and and, but the same, that's
why nowadays there's a lot of therapies
that are used for leadership, you
know, big companies that have problems,
people that are bullied by others.
So they use this kind of therapy and
they use the animals so that people
understand what leadership means.
And leadership means that
I, now you are afraid of me.
You do what I do.
Told you to do and now you have to do it.
It's not by fear because a good leadership
cannot transmit fear because they will
never have a good team working for them.
So leadership is that I'm here for you.
I will help you.
I will guide you.
I need you to trust me and
I need you to follow me.
So there's a few exercises that in
the first lessons they will learn,
which are quite hard to explain
them with just the voice, because
I need you to picture some images.
Rupert Isaacson: Well,
well, we can do that.
Have us shut our eyes and let's
go into the arena with you.
We, we we're going to the arena with
you with this three and a half year
old horse who's coming from the wild.
As you say,
Sofia Valenca: what's happening?
There's this exercise that sometimes
we don't give enough importance.
It's, it's really,
really, really important.
That is, imagine you're launching a horse.
And the horse, okay, he already
goes, well, into the circle.
He understands he has to do the circle.
But then we stop them, and we do
something that we call meeting point.
And what is a meeting point?
Is that you go...
Into a certain point and the horse
that is going on a circle, you will
keep going until you will meet you on
that meeting point and all the horses.
that come from the field and they
are afraid of the man because
we are predators for them.
They will stop a few meters and
even if they don't want to run away
because after a while they don't want
to run away, but they are still not
trusting you enough to go to you.
And one thing that we always explain
when we give our lessons and we start
to explain how we develop the method,
we always say, even if the horse The
horse stops like one meter away from
you, and you are happy with that, but you
want the horse to move forward to you.
But he's not going and you
say, Oh, it's just a meter.
No problem.
I go to him and the horse accepts you
going to him and you pat him and the
horse is quite calm and did accept that
you go into his world, but he was, he
didn't accept, he was not trusting you
enough to follow you to your own world.
If you don't have this, if you
to move this, that one meter
to bring him to my world.
I don't have the trust of this horse.
So he was being the alpha.
He said, I stop here.
I don't trust you.
You will come to me.
And this is what mostly of the people do.
They go to them and they pet him.
And the horse says, I got you.
I make you trust you to come to my world.
I don't trust you enough
to go to your world.
And you see, this is just a little detail
that people think, Oh, he stopped there.
I just go to him and it
will be something that.
Later on time there's a gap there and
Rupert Isaacson: you know,
how do you make the horse take
that meter step towards you?
So
Sofia Valenca: it's sometimes you just
need to be patient You invite him like
using your body energy, like, you know,
like you, you want him to follow you.
Like some, somehow, sometimes
we do this with dogs, you call
your dog, you want him to come.
So you kind of inviting him
because it's not the word that
will make the dog come to you.
It's the energy you put in the world.
And, and this, this is.
I can tell my dog, get away
from here, get away from here,
you will come to me, right?
It's not the word.
It's the energy you put in the word.
And if that doesn't work, sometimes
we need what we call a ghost help.
What is a ghost help is that you
ask someone to go into the arena
and from the behind of the horse,
like a little bit far away, but the
person from the behind will send the
horse to move forward a little bit.
That little bit that make the horse
come to you, trust you, because what he
will receive when he goes to you, love.
When he comes to you, what
you give him, you pet him.
The horse will feel your
hand touching his body.
And it's, it's nice.
Who does not love to be pet?
Right?
The horses are the same.
They love to be touched.
They love to receive love.
So they learn that when I go to her,
I can trust her because she's kind.
She will give me love.
And, and, and I'm not giving him treats.
I'm, I'm gaining his trust by the love
I can give him and not just by a carrot.
I don't want to buy his trust.
I want him to feel what love is.
And this is how we really, and you
know, after a while, this ghost,
why we say ghost, because the person
is there and then he's not there.
The horse is sending forward.
by someone that behind just said a little
bit just move or it does a sound or with
a whip sends him a little bit forward and
we need to do this two or three times and
the horse learns that he can come to me
he have trust that he can come to my world
Rupert Isaacson: and that you are
the safe you are the safe place to
Sofia Valenca: come to i am the safe
place but he needs to understand
that we are the safe place
Rupert Isaacson: Are you tapping in also
to the horse's natural sense of curiosity?
I mean, horses are intelligent animals.
They're curious about life.
And they need to be curious, presumably.
Otherwise, they're not going to be able
to explore their environments in nature.
How do you...
Are you tapping into the horse's
natural sense of curiosity as well?
Sofia Valenca: You have to.
You have to.
Remember when we started
this conversation?
When I, when we defend it, a
horse needs to express himself.
So when you analyze a little bit,
the horse, you need to, to, to
see his reactions to everything.
If he comes to me and he wants to smell,
we, we, we kind of, we let him smell.
When he starts to smell,
it starts to relax.
You touch him and you feel
how he reacts to the touch.
And if a horse is a little bit stressed.
When he starts to trust you and you
pet him, you have the power of control
stress just by the way you touch a horse.
It's like, it's like you, you can transmit
that energy to him when you touch his,
his neck, when you touch his eyes.
Another thing when a horse comes
from the field, they come very
suspicious about the touch in the head.
Some of them because.
They, they are in the field and,
and, but the vets, they need to take
care of them because they need to,
to be treated because they need the
vaccines because they need to, to,
to, to take medicine to clean inside.
And so their first contact with the men.
It's not the most friendly contact
because it will come this they will be
in a place and then they call this this
man that needs to give him an injection.
And sometimes things are changing and
people are learning, but sometimes they
hold their ears, so they don't move.
And that can be very traumatizing
for a horse when we start them to,
to be there to start their journey.
So it is really important that the horse.
starts to allow us to touch on
those parts of the body that
can be more reactive to them.
The ears Touching their eyes.
Well, their eyes not touching their eyes.
Now the vision of you.
We are not touching their eyes.
But if we pack a horse, it will
make them close their eyes.
And somehow that can be very calm.
The phrase some horses will not
allowed to touch their mouth.
They and especially if they are born and
growing in fields with electrical fences.
You see them a lot, right?
To contain the paddocks.
They, and all horses to learn,
they need to touch that fence.
And then they learn because they
touch it and it's a little bit ouch.
So they will not touch again.
But we start to feel that they get
very sensitive on their nose because
they get very like, Oh, don't touch
me here because when you touch me
here, I, I'm afraid of the fence.
So, you know, some horses,
they don't even care.
When we touch them, but some others,
they're very, very sensitive and the head
was really it's one of the most difficult
parts to to conquer their their trust.
We need to be able to
pet the horse everywhere.
Rupert Isaacson: So the horse must be
able to accept the human touch pretty much
all over the body before you can begin.
All over.
Yeah.
Yes,
Sofia Valenca: yes, yes.
Rupert Isaacson: In a way that makes them
feel this is a safe thing, this is...
Sofia Valenca: Exactly.
Because if a horse does not...
He does make me sick.
Imagine.
If.
Imagine, imagine now.
Imagine that you are afraid that I will
touch you because, you know, you had
something that, you know, you don't trust
and you are afraid if I, if I don't pass
this barrier, how can I handle this horse?
that not even being able to touch him,
it does not trust me to touch him.
How can I ride this, this horse?
You understand?
So it's really important that
we go through that phase and,
and that phase it's, it's really
important that we don't rush phases.
If a horse is taking more time to accept
you, we need to give them that time.
Some horses, the day they come from the
field, You can launch them, you can touch
them everywhere, and some horses, after
a month, you are still trying to break
barriers, and barriers, and barriers.
So, we cannot rush, and we need
to respect the time each horse
is showing you that he needs.
And, and this is really important.
Rupert Isaacson: So here you are now
creating these extraordinary equestrian
shows which go all over the place and
basically show a fairy tale on horseback.
It's sort of Cirque du
Soleil on horseback.
And then, but you also have, you
know, your daughter, as you say,
who's in the competition world
and you're the sort of excellence.
And.
You have this effectively living free and
riding free family culture of every day
you getting together with your your tribe
with with your father with your sisters
and Pretty and the rest of your family
producing these extraordinary Animals and
the teams that will go out and present
them to the world, but it wasn't always
so I believe I think It's always a it's
always a bit easy to jump to conclusions
and one would assume, Oh, well, you
know, if Sophia Valencia is coming out
of this family that produces these fancy
dressage horses everywhere, then they
must come from, you know, a lot of money.
They must be aristocrats or they
must have something like that.
And I know that that's not true.
In fact, I know that you were actually
born into quite difficult times 1974.
What was happening in in Portugal
in 1974, that year that you were
Sofia Valenca: born.
So, in, in 74, there was this
big revolution in Portugal, and
we, we went from a dictator to,
to, so you went for extremes.
We had a dictator, and then
we came with a communism
So you came from, so suddenly
from one day to the other the
life change of a lot of people.
And I was not born yet in April.
This was in, in, in April that happened.
I was born in December, but my father that
was working with horses was found in he
found himself in a very hard time because
he was working horses from other clients.
And some of those clients, they, they,
they had the money, but suddenly from one
day to the other, they lost everything
because suddenly if you had horses,
you were considered like a rich person.
And you know, as a communism thing
they, they would go after you.
So a lot of people that had
big farms that had horses.
So suddenly they said, I need to
finish all that or we are in trouble.
So what happened with my father,
he was not the rich person.
He was just working horses because he
always, I always say he had a rich life
because he was able to follow his passion.
So he was rich because he
was doing what he loves.
was being around horses and, you
know, working the horses and, and
follow, following this passion.
So suddenly my, I'm the youngest
of three of three sisters and
my father and mother, my mother,
she was not working at the time.
Suddenly they had no.
Job and my father had a few horses,
so he decided to move to Spain.
So there we went to Spain in 75.
I was born in December 74 and in 75
they just wait that I had a few months.
So that, you know, traveling with
a born baby, it's, it's not easy.
So maybe I was like four or five months
when they moved to Spain and they had
to start all over again, my father
and mother, they had the three girls.
They, we, the three of
us, we were very tiny.
And.
But they are very strong, and I always, we
always have them with a very nice example
of of a couple that love each other, and
and they, they believe they could just go
to another country with three children,
with a few horses, and, well, they did not
have a dog at the time, but there we went.
And two and a half
year, we lived in Spain.
My father always followed
his dream working with the
horses, so that's what he did.
He, he...
He works some horses in Spain.
Then we moved to this.
We started in Jerez de la Frontera.
My father had good friends.
Don Alvaro Domecq was a good
friend of him that have helped him.
He was having the horses where
the Spanish Riding School is.
in Jerez was actually beautiful because
we have been there like two weeks ago.
The, there was a show there with the
four schools and we, it was nice to,
for my parents to be back there and
see old friends and, and it was really,
really nice to, to be back there.
Then after Jerez, we
went to the Gran Canaria.
So my father had this proposal for
work there and this is where he start
to gain experience with the shows.
Gran Canaria, it's an island that
always worked with a lot of tourists,
so it was the proposal of work
there was to, to build a show with
horses to entertain the tourism.
So for two years, they,
they did this show.
We were not part of the show yet
because we were really small my sisters,
they were already riding horses.
But not part of the show.
And then in 78, 78, the end of 78, I don't
really remember the dates, they decided
things were more calm in Portugal, and
they decided to come back to Portugal.
In 79, My father met this Spanish
man in Portugal, and together they
decided to do the project of the
SELGE, so our writing center, the one
you know, the one you have been here.
And because of the experience he
gained in Spain during the show,
he, he could do something that
was really unique in Portugal.
So we were the ones
starting to create a big...
events.
So it was like evenings where
people came and have this gala
dinner with the show included.
And I have to say was we were pioneers
doing this kind of project and it
worked really, really, really well.
So it was our golden days when we
came back to Portugal and then they
developed this these facilities.
And Was really amazing.
So bringing back for your question, we
were never rich people in terms of money,
because, you know, if you want to make a
small fortune on horses, better to start
with a big one, like everybody knows this.
So we were always able to survive around
horses in terms of financial, but.
You know, money, it's not everything.
Of course, everybody needs money and
we need money because we have a lot
of forces that depend on us, but our
goal in life, it's not to be rich in
terms of money, but it's to be rich
in terms of the passion that we have
and that we are able to say that.
We wake up every morning,
and we do what we love.
I think this is the best it's the
most rich way of being in life.
So there you
Rupert Isaacson: are, you're a
girl, and you've, you've, you're
back in you're back in Portugal.
Your father and his partner are putting
together this sort of pioneering show,
sort of showcasing This old masters, this
sort of Baroque way of, of presenting
the horse as if it was like a royal court
to the kings, but the kings are now the
people, you know, sitting there having
the dinner and paying for the show.
And you at some point do start.
working in and writing in these
shows, presumably you must have
sort of seen this as a little girl
and go, Oh, my gosh, that's just,
you know, fairytale come to life.
And that's my dad.
And I get to be part of it.
How did you how did you yourself
and your sisters flow into?
Becoming part of these shows and,
and, and what did you do in them?
Sofia Valenca: You know, it just
said it, how did we flow in?
It was so natural that if, if I want
to remind myself, when was the first
time I was sitting on a horse, I
cannot remember because I was so young.
That was before where you develop
memories that, you know, those
memories that you remember when you're.
So it was so natural that I think we all
start to ride even before we were walking.
So it's a, it was so like, it was
just there, it's like breathing air.
Do you know how you start to breathe?
You have no idea.
You just did it.
So everything, it was so, so natural.
And, and another thing that was so
natural that nowadays I start to
think that was really natural was
the way we learn to do what we do.
It's also natural that you don't
even think what you are doing
because it comes naturally because
you have grown up doing it.
For example, the, when you work
the in hand work we, we started.
To, to train people like you do train
people to work the horses on the ground
or to do a little bit what we do,
and we start for with the groundwork.
So this is a primary thing.
If you want to learn the method,
you need to learn how to work
the horses from the ground and.
So we teach all kinds of people,
people with more experience, less
experience, people, older people,
younger people, and they all come.
And once we start to put them on
the ground with the horses and
you know, it's like dancing with
the horses, you just move around
with the horses, cannot even walk.
And you go like, but this is so easy.
This is so natural.
This is how can you not walk?
So it's, you see, it was so
natural that it just happened.
So I, suddenly If I try, I'm trying
to think when, when was my first show?
I don't remember.
I was really young.
I do remember that we missed a lot school
because we were already doing the shows.
And in those times, you know, you
were allowed to, to miss school.
It's not nowadays.
If you, if your sons or daughters don't go
to school, then you're in trouble because
school it's mandatory until a certain age.
Right.
So in my time, I remember my mother
sometimes was Called into school, like
saying, you know, your daughters, they,
they, they miss a lot, a lot school.
And my mother was like, I know, but
you know, we do these shows and they
do these shows and we travel the world.
And this is also important.
So it was a, was a really nice
school of life that we were
able to live and learn from it.
I'm not ashamed saying I was
not in college because, you
know, I achieve what I achieved.
Because I really had a very
rich life in terms of, of seeing
the world doing what we do.
And and we, we, with all the cultures
of, you know, when you perform for
those shows, you were performing for
different cultures because we, we
work with a lot of tourist people.
And that also bring us...
To another world, I think, was a very
rich way of learning what the world is.
So again, I don't remember how I started.
I don't know.
Was there.
Was always there.
Every day.
Here's
Rupert Isaacson: a question.
Here's a question about that.
When, when you grow up with something
naturally it can be quite hard to
teach other people how to do it.
Because if you, if you haven't had to.
Break it down yourself.
And then, as you say, there you are
trying to show somebody how to walk
with the horse for this in hand work.
And for those listeners who don't know
what in hand work is, in hand work is
basically where you, you teach the horse
to do the stuff that you're going to do
when you ride him, before you ride him.
So the horse effectively understands
before you add the rider what these
things are, and therefore there
is less stress and there's a...
a smoother learning curve and that
is really the basis of this of this
old master master system and what
different makes it different from.
just going for riding lessons and so on.
It is a relatively complex thing to learn.
I mean, to learn to dance with
a human is complex enough and
humans both speak monkey, right?
So one monkey can to the other monkeys
communicate in a way, even if they don't
share an actual spoken language in a
way that they can sort of work it out.
But a horse doesn't speak monkey.
And in fact, the horse regards
the monkey, the upright ape with
the eyes in front as a predator.
And they're a bit skeptical
of us with good reason.
Because It's terrible, but, you
know, if you got hungry enough,
you'd eat every horse in your stable.
You wouldn't, if your, if your kids
were gonna starve, you wouldn't be
happy about it, but you'd do it.
So the horse is right to
be a little bit skeptical.
So, when you come to something like
this, as you say so naturally, And
to such a high standard where from,
you know, very, very, very young,
you are, as you say, traveling the
world, showing what most people only
dream of being able to do with horses.
Now it's your job to go around the world
and teach people how to do what you do.
And I'm going to plug this
at the end for the listeners.
You should, if you ever want
to do anything meaningful
with horses, you should go and
work with the Valenza family.
Okay.
So how do you then, as a.
Natural, teach someone
who is not a natural.
How do you bridge that gap?
How do you break
Sofia Valenca: it down?
You know, it's, life is made of
opportunities and we have a very
dear friend, a very good friend,
that one time he said to us, you
know what, you have a method here.
And what is a method?
Is that when you do something in the
same way, you will achieve a purpose.
So if you break this method through
into little pieces, you are able
to teach even a monkey to do this.
And this dear friend that is actually
now talking to me, Rupert Isaacson, was
the person that really bring out the
name of method to the Valesa method.
So, How many years were you here?
How many years ago?
Ooh,
Rupert Isaacson: that, I think we first
came out to you in fifteen, was it?
I seem to, because Ileana was
pregnant, with little man.
No, no,
Sofia Valenca: no, no, no.
No, much before that, much before that.
Gosh.
Yeah, much before that.
Twelve?
Was it twelve?
It was a while ago.
Well, it was in another life, right?
Back
Rupert Isaacson: in the Pleistocene, yes.
When mammoth bellowed to mammoth
across the primeval swamp,
Sofia Valenca: yeah.
Anyway, so we were doing this because
we all were always doing this.
And when we want to teach someone
to do something that you are...
Doing so naturally, not always
is easy, but if you start to
break it down into little pieces,
it's more easy to pass the word.
So this is what we start to develop.
We start to break into small fractions,
what we want people to understand so
that they can be able to pass the same.
language to the horses.
So if that's why everybody that comes
here and even if they have experience
on the groundwork, if they have not
go through the Valencia method, if
I want to speak the same language as
this person that wants to learn the
method, we need to go from the basics
and we start to introduce you from the
beginning because it's in the beginning.
It's this basic word work that
will give you the pillars.
For the future work, if you really speak
the same language I'm speaking to the
horse later on, we have a lesson and
I can bring you to that world because
we speak that same language and we are
not, you know, this one is not speaking
Chinese and I'm speaking Portuguese and
we go like, Oh, can't you understand why?
And then he speaks in Chinese and
I don't understand why you don't
understand if I'm speaking to you.
So it's exactly the same
that happens with the horses.
So.
If the horse will not speak the
language I want him to understand,
it's more difficult to go somewhere.
So, this is what the biggest change we did
over the years was to become, we need to
put ourselves in the place of the student.
And, okay, this is natural for me.
But it's not for them and if he's not able
to walk, it's not because they are stupid.
They are not able to walk because
they are frozen and they are
not understanding what we want.
So we need to stop and, you know, go into
little pieces and then everything, Sorry,
everything starts to make sense for them.
Rupert Isaacson: I have a question.
I have a question for you.
So, you said that what people
need to learn how to do is
how to walk with a horse.
This is intriguing, in a
way that is like a dance.
What is the, what is this walk?
This isn't just a walk from
A to B to the supermarket.
to buy a bottle of milk.
It's a different kind of walk.
What are the steps of this
dance that somebody needs
Sofia Valenca: to know?
It's exactly if you are
learning how to dance.
So when you learn how to dance,
first you need to know the steps.
It's because they're so
different kind of dances, right?
So we will explain where you need to
move and then you need to understand that
when you move you will have a partner.
And that partner, so when you start to
dance If you're a man and you start to
dance and you know that when you use your
steps of dancing it's to move forward, you
know your partner needs to move backwards.
Simple, right?
So now let's imagine we do our partner
will be the horse and we always have
to bear in mind that our partner is
the one that needs to move forward.
Therefore, we always need to
think of moving backwards.
And this is the first step of learning.
It's to move backwards and
inviting the horse to follow you.
And then, of course, there's more things.
The horse needs to be familiar.
With the touches of the whip,
because the whip will invite
also the horse to move to you.
But then also, remember on the
first lessons, you were helping your
horse to trust you, to follow you.
So you need, that wall
was already broken, right?
The horse is following you.
So he's no longer afraid to follow you.
So all those little steps have to happen.
One after the other after the
other and if you block in one
step, you cannot move forward.
We need to find a way to pass that
step so that we can move forward.
So when we do the groundwork,
it's really like a dance.
And in the beginning, you feel like
you are Looking into your steps,
seeing where you are putting your feet,
and then suddenly it just comes out
naturally and it's like just music.
You will, you will start to dance with
a, with a horse and, and it's beautiful.
It's really beautiful.
Rupert Isaacson: That's quite intriguing,
the idea that you have to basically
take the male part of the dance in a
partner dance where you're the leader,
but instead of moving your partner
backwards in the traditional way.
you have to induce your
partner to follow you.
That is, so I would imagine that even
people that understand partner dancing
quite well, if you're the person in the
partner dance who's walking backwards,
you're being directed, you're being
led, yet you're moving backwards now
in a way that is the leader, which
that's an intriguing psychology.
Sofia Valenca: It, it depends
on the dance you're dancing.
I don't remember which one it is now.
If it's a Brazilian dance or like a tango,
there is one that the woman moves forward.
So you know, it's just a mindset.
You can still be the leader
and you say, you follow me.
I need you to, you will still be leading
just you are leading on a movement
more backwards because remember,
you always need to remind yourself
that your partner has four legs.
He needs to control four legs.
You only need two legs to control.
So it will be easier for you
to move backwards, right?
But you know, it's, it's, it's
just difficult until it becomes
easier and then it's easy.
Rupert Isaacson: So, okay.
Let's take a listener.
We'll take listener.
That one over there.
I'm going to pick him up and I'm
putting him in your living room.
What are the first steps that you're
going to teach this person how to do?
It's got to start.
Every, every dance, you go for a
salsa lesson, they tell you how to
put this foot forward, this foot back.
There is a step.
What is the first step of Valencia method?
The actual physical step with the foot
that someone is doing, that you show them.
It's,
Sofia Valenca: it's moving backward.
How?
just go backwards.
Okay.
And, and
Rupert Isaacson: what speed
am I running backwards?
Am I, am I going backwards on my bottom?
Am I going backwards on
a pair of roller skates?
You just,
Sofia Valenca: you just, you
just, you just close your eyes
and just give one step back.
Imagine someone is pushing
you and you just go back.
And then when this is backwards, then
you start to want to draw a circle.
And go a little bit backwards
and stepping on a circle line.
This is quite hard for me to
explain without visualizing it.
But...
You need to, to be able
just to be coming backwards.
And when you do this without the
horse, you just close your eyes
and you imagine the horse with you
and you just, you want to invite
him to come backwards and what is
Rupert Isaacson: the tempo
and what is the rhythm?
What, what, what you counting in your
Sofia Valenca: head, the tempo, the
tempo and the rhythm will, will be
because all horses are different.
And imagine if you have a little
horse or you have a big horse, you
have a laser horse, you have a very.
Sensitive horse, it, the horse will
give you the tempo, but just, you
know, just to start, you just, you
just move backwards on the same
speed as if you were going forward.
And imagine yourself on a shopping
mall, watching the shops, you're
not running, you're just observing.
I like this.
Pair of shoes.
Oh, but I like that watch and I
like this t shirt and you go from
one shop to the other and On a pace
that will allowed you to see the
clothes that shop has in the outside
Rupert Isaacson: So you're not rushing
you're going at a negative pace
Sofia Valenca: You just go on a
pace that you you need you can
go on a pace of a collect walk.
Imagine collect walk.
Rupert Isaacson: So a collected
walk would be, and what is a walk?
Is it a four beat?
Is it a two beat?
Is it, what is it?
A walk
Sofia Valenca: is a four beat.
So a walk, the walk,
the horse has four legs.
The horse has four legs, you'll
need the horse has to, the
walk is always four beats.
It's one leg after the other, after the
other, after the other, one after the
other, after the other, after the other.
This is one, two, three, four, one,
two, three, four, one, two, three, four.
A walk always needs to
have the four beats.
Otherwise, if you have two
beats on a walk, you'll have
how you call on blood on blood.
That's not a good walk.
I don't know the name in English when
they go like, like the natural steps.
Indeed.
I'm black.
I don't know
Rupert Isaacson: the name.
Like it's
Sofia Valenca: a good.
It's a bad.
It's a bad walk.
We don't want the bad
Rupert Isaacson: walk You want
to actually you want an even for
beer of one, two, three, three
Sofia Valenca: four
Rupert Isaacson: Four
Sofia Valenca: moving a little bit
if it's one two, three four one
two, three four, it's not good.
Yes Yeah, so really need that the pace
you want to go backwards will be the same
pace You want to move forward and then you
know, you just not go backwards Sometimes
you need also to move forward, but when
you move forward, you turn yourself and
you still move forward with the horse.
And, and this is where it's more complex.
It's that you need to move backwards
or forward, always thinking that
the horse always needs to move.
in that direction.
So for example, if I say, okay,
now you move backwards and the
horse will follow you, but now I
need you to turn and move forward.
The direction that the horse is
moving will always be forward.
Just you have to be the ability
of sometimes you turn facing
the horse and you go backwards.
Sometimes you turn yourself and you
give the back to the horse and you move.
Backwards forward.
Sorry.
Bear in mind, the horse will always be
moving forward unless later on you want
to work on more collections and you
start to teach the horse to rain back.
That's the different thing.
That's the only moment the
horse will move backwards.
later on, right?
So when we start to introduce the steps
of the groundwork, this is what you need
to be able to move backward, forward,
or sideways without interfering on the
pace that the horse needs to perform.
Rupert Isaacson: To guide and
allow rather than pull or hustle.
Never pull
Sofia Valenca: and have a
Rupert Isaacson: hustle and this I imagine
can be quite difficult for people if
they're feeling The natural stress that
comes, you know, it's something new with
a very powerful animal standing at the
end of your hand It is how do you stop
rushing the most calm down not stress
Sofia Valenca: because we use trained
horses So this is where the difficult
the difference comes is that if you come
to us, you will be learning how to dance
with a partner that knows how to dance.
So you are not teaching, you are
not learning at the same time
you are teaching your horse.
So
Rupert Isaacson: you're learning from
a dancing master that has four legs.
Sofia Valenca: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
It is really difficult to
teach at the same time you are
teaching your horse to do so.
So what we want when people come to us is
that we recreate feelings, experiences,
that people gain memory muscle, so that
when they go back home, at least they
can be fair enough for their own horses,
and ask them what they want them to ask.
Because sometimes, You know, sometimes
you just want to do a shouldering, but
you have never rode a shouldering before.
How do you know what your body needs
to feel when you perform a shouldering?
Correct.
Rupert Isaacson: Just for the
listeners who do not know what a
shoulder in is, let's just clarify.
A shoulder in is when a horse is
being asked to put its inside hind
leg under its point of gravity,
which is one of the first...
Exercises that will help the
horse to contain his energy in a
way that we would call collected
and learn therefore how to dance.
Later there'll have to be another one
for the, for the outside hind leg to come
under, but it's one of the foundation
exercises that you see in the horse
training world and it's not easy.
So back to you.
Okay.
So someone is trying to learn a
shoulder in, but they've Never felt it.
Never seen it.
Never done it.
Yeah.
How, how can they learn it?
Yeah.
Sofia Valenca: How, how can you
tell your horse to perform something
that you have never felt before?
And this is just a small example, so it's
not impossible, it's just it'll bring
your journey a lot more difficult because
sometimes, and sometimes it'll bring you
to a way of, Okay, my horse is doing the
shoulder in, and then we arrive there
to give a lesson, and we go like, this
is not a shoulder in, this is a head in.
So what happens?
The horse is turning his head,
he's not bringing the shoulders in.
You know what I'm saying, because
you, you understand dressage.
So for those who don't
understand dressage, maybe you
should bring another example.
But just so that.
We need to be fair teaching our horses.
We need at least to have felt them
at least once in our lifetime.
So that at.
You will become much more fair when
asking to the horse the feeling
you are searching for him to give
Rupert Isaacson: you.
Absolutely.
Now I went through this
learning curve myself.
When I first, obviously I grew
up with horses, but I didn't
grow up with horses in that way.
And then when I realized
that I needed to learn.
Something about dressage, as you know,
Sophia, it happened in a very strange
way because it was tied up with my
son's autism and my son had started
speaking in the saddle in front of me
when he wouldn't speak anywhere else.
And I noticed that when the rhythm
of the horse was dance, like what
people call collected, he spoke more.
And then I noticed that this
happened with other kids as well.
And then I thought, okay,
why is this happening?
So I went to.
Neuroscientists and they said, Oh, it's
because when the hips rock in this way,
in this soft way, the child is getting
filled with a communication hormone and
a feel good hormone called oxytocin.
I go, Oh, Oh, well, okay.
Well then I need to learn more about this.
So then I began this research journey.
And as you say, I started learning.
And even with my background in
horses, I found that people's
explanations were incredibly unclear.
And what happened was they
would sit you on your horse.
who also didn't know it.
And then they would try to tell you
and the horse at the same time, how to
do something that neither of you knew.
And I could see immediately just on
a practical level, well, that that's
just not going to work very well.
What do I do?
And so I started asking people.
Okay, if you're in my position and
you need to learn this thing that
everyone says is impossible to
learn in under 500 years in a bit
of a hurry, where would you go?
What would you do?
And then everybody said that was a
professional in the field that I asked,
they said, Oh, you should go to Portugal.
I said, but why?
And as you pointed out, they said, ah,
because of the Portuguese bullfight,
they still train the riders there from
the get go on educated horses, and then
gradually bring the rider up to that
level where they can educate a horse.
And they do a lot of the
work from the ground.
I thought, Oh, that makes sense.
And then of course, I went down
to Portugal, found it was true.
And then this name kept coming
up Valenza, Valenza, and.
People saying, well, if you really want to
learn, like if you really, really, really
like really want to learn, not just like
a bit learn, but like actually learn,
you got to go to this family because
they're doing it in the purest form.
And I said to them,
well, why is that then?
Why are they so good?
And it was pointed out to me
that your dad and you guys had
to not just train these horses.
To work in a normal context like a
riding school or or a competition had
to go out For three to six months of
the year two thousand kilometers away
up in Germany and do this show that
went around Seven months seven months.
Okay do this show in front of
the most critical audience in the
world the Germans where you're not
allowed, you're not allowed to suck.
You can't, you can't have a
bad day, you know, they'll,
they'll, they'll eat you alive.
And they're, they're an educated
audience when it comes to horse stuff.
It's an, you know, it's a horse
culture and you cannot suck.
You, you've got to, you've got, your
dad has to sleep at night, knowing
that that show is going to work and
he's not going to lose the contract.
Because if he loses the contract,
he can't feed his family.
And he's got to, if a rider falls
sick, he's got to replace that rider.
If a horse has a problem, he's got
to be able to replace that horse.
And I thought that's the person,
those are the people I need to learn
from because what they're doing is
they're creating a universal horse.
They're not just creating a
horse that an expert can ride.
They're creating a horse that.
Can go out and do something like this.
That means there must be
some secret to the training.
Of course, I went and found it was true.
You guys are geniuses.
Where I want to bring people
into your world a little bit.
Whether they're horse people or not,
let's say they've dropped now into
your riding arena and you've taught
them these first steps of the dance
in this Vivaldi type adagio, you know,
moving backwards, one, two, three,
four, inviting us moving forwards, one,
two, three, four, inviting the horse
moving to the side, one, two, three,
four, inviting and directing the horse.
Once they've learned to do some of
this at the walk, what comes next?
What's the next thing you teach them
Sofia Valenca: on the ground?
On the ground then we move
on more to the reading work.
We develop more the chat and
the canter on the reading work.
Later on, we will come back to the ground.
to work and start to introduce
more collected work like
the payoff Spanish walk.
Some people, and I, you'd have to
do it, you do develop the horses
and trot and canter on the ground
because you have a purpose for it.
You need the horses to work from the
ground because you need to prepare them
and then to to more collected work, but
still with assistance from the ground when
you work with the kids on the program.
So that's, that's a
very good tool for you.
When we don't like too much to teach
trot and canta from the ground,
just because you will start to, to
give, it will be a more difficult
journey to do it by yourself.
When you go to trot on the
ground, you start to go away
from the rhythm of the horse.
Some horses have big trots, some have
less big trots, but the horse to work
in a good tempo in trot to develop
well his rhythm, that one, two,
one, two, it's a bigger pace, right?
More difficult to follow
him from the ground.
So when we start, so in very, very
easy, I tell you in a very easy
way how we develop a young horse.
So the first month It will be 70
80 percent groundwork and then the
30 or 20 percent that we do the
written work is just so that he gets
used to have a rider on top of him.
We are not develop the horse
with the rider is not developing
the horse with the written work.
So we do launch work.
Groundwork the groundwork is a little
bit that kind of a dance that will
work his flexibility and then the rider
sit on him, but the horse is still
controlled by the person on the ground.
The horse can, is ready to move on, so he
says, like, I'm okay with you being on top
of me, I don't care that you are there, I
accept you, I'm not tense, I, it's cool,
I can do what a srot hunter, and I don't
feel that, what are you doing there, what
are you doing there, so he accepts me.
The horse can start to be
loosened from the launch work.
That means that the person that is
launching the horse on the ground
starts to become the ghost help.
What does that mean?
He's still there, but he's not there.
So he's still giving his presence from
the ground, but the horse is being more
controlled now by the rider on top of him.
Now
Rupert Isaacson: explain
to us what lunging is.
Not everybody knows what lunging is.
What is lunging and why is it?
Sofia Valenca: Lunging is the horse
is learning what a circle means.
Well a circle, I think everybody
knows what a circle means.
A circle is not a square.
The circle
Rupert Isaacson: is not a potato.
Why does a horse need to
learn what a circle is?
Why not a square?
Why not a triangle?
Sofia Valenca: Because a circle,
it's once the horse goes into the
dynamic of the circle, it will
start to develop his balance.
It will start to go into a
dynamic of going by its own.
It will start to have
this kinetic movement.
He no longer needs someone to be
pushing him because he went into
this, this rhythm, this balance.
And you really be starts to
be aware of his own body.
So, and when we launch the
horse, we create circles.
Sometimes we add some straight lines,
but then we come back to the circle.
So that's what lunging means.
Lunging means that the person there's
a person in a center of the circle.
There's a lunge that will connect the
person to the head of the horse and
the horse that imagine a compass, you
know, that things to draw a compass.
There's, there's one leg of
the compass, which is the rider
on the center of the circle.
And the other leg of the, of
the compass, it's the horse.
And by going on a circle, we'll,
we'll perform that perfect line
that a compass can draw on a paper.
It's exactly what we want when we launch
a horse to create a perfect circle.
So, later on, the horse starts to be.
more controlled by the
rider on top of him.
How that happens?
Because we start to develop contact.
The contact is developed through
a snaffle that he will use on his
mouth, connected with the reins that
will hold then on the rider's hand.
And so before the horse knows
what the reins means, he is
Connected with the person on the,
on the ground with the lunge.
And then when he starts to be aware
that there's a contact, there's the
right train, there's a left train,
this person on the ground starts to
have a less presence in the work.
This is when we start to
call this presence ghost.
Is there?
Is not there.
Is there?
Is not there.
And progressively, there's a passage of
the learning aids that the horse has.
learn from the groundwork
to the rhythm work.
And each horse we have
will have his own time.
Some horses, they start to be
less dependent from the person
on the ground easily than others.
So again, we always need
to respect those timings.
And if a horse is still very dependent
from the groundwork, it's because it
still needs to be more more confirmed.
On what he's learning so that we
can give him always good basics.
If we rush steps, we will create gaps and
those gaps later on, we will fill them.
It's like if you learn math,
you know, two plus two is four.
But when you start to put the things
more complex, if you keep going
and putting things more complex,
more complex, the person that is
following the math, it will collapse.
So sometimes we need to go back
a few steps so that we can move.
more, more, more steps.
And, and again, it's, it's, you
know, it's, it's hard to explain it.
Such a long process of learning
curve in, in, you know, in,
in a few, in a few hours.
It's, it's not easy.
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.
And obviously we understand that
this unfolds over five plus years
or so in an education which.
I guess, you know, really is, is similar
to education in any field, right?
Five to ten years is normal
to learn any skill, you know.
But here you've got two, two
things trying to learn a skill.
A monkey and a zebra at the same time.
With the zebra being vaguely worried
that the monkey might eat him.
And the monkey being vaguely worried that
the zebra might chuck him onto the ground.
Back him out.
Do something else, yeah.
One of the things which stands out when
you say you talk about the importance
of the circle is a couple of things and
earlier you said that your school in
Portugal that it's not just a school
of horsemanship, it's a school of life.
One of the curious things about the
literature of the old masters is
that this correlation is parallel.
Between the dressage of the horse
and emotional regulation in the human
seems to have been noticed from the
get go in there is, there was a Greek
writer who wrote the first manual of
horsemanship that we know of in Europe.
Of course, it's not a European tradition.
It goes back before.
I found out that the first exercises
that you were describing actually
were written down as the first
ones that we've ever found were
found written in cuneiform script.
In on clay tablets in Nineveh in Babylon
from 1375 BC, describing exactly what
you described, Sophia, and we even know
the name of the man who wrote them.
His name was Kikuli because he
signed these clay tablets and he was
managing the stables of the Royal
Hittite Kings in Babylon at the time.
So clearly we're dealing with.
Something that's been functioning
for a while, you know, millennia, not
just centuries, but when it came to
Europe after the wars of the Greeks and
the Persians, there was a man called
Xenophon who wrote what we know as the
first manual in a European language.
And what's interesting about Xenophon
is he wasn't just a horseman.
He was a philosopher and he was a
friend of a man called Socrates and
he was a friend of another man called
Plato and a lot of philosophers know
Xenophon not for his writing work at all.
But for his philosophy, which is very
similar to platonic, but what they don't
know is that he was actually a mercenary.
And that he worked for the Persians
who were actually the enemy.
So like working for Wagner or
something, because they were
the ones who had these skills.
And then he brought them
back after he finished.
Working for the Persians and what fought
for the Athenians again and opened
a writing school and wrote a book.
And he actually said,
I'm not the best at this.
The best is a guy called Simon who
has a writing school down the road,
but he doesn't want to write a book.
So I'm going to write the book.
So, Hey, and he writes this
book describing many of the same
things that you've described.
But he draws this parallel as well
between the circle as a sort of
sacred geometry of transformation,
almost like a sacred mathematics.
through which the horse and the
rider learn to balance themselves and
not fall over and find their rhythm
and learn how to carry themselves
to the point where they could go
into battle and become one mind.
And this business of schooling the
mind then comes up again in the, in
the 17th century, there was a very
famous French horseman called Pluvinel.
Who established the whole thing in France,
and he went to the French king and said,
our, our nobility are out of control.
We've had 150 years of civil war, all
our, all the aristocratic youth, they
just fight duels with each other.
They kill each other.
And then the estates never have stability.
And then they go fight
private wars with each other.
And if we keep going like this, we
will never be able to push Spain.
off the top of the pyramid
where it's sitting right now.
For this, we need to get control
of our young men, of our nobility.
I propose four riding academies in
France, in which they're also taught
mathematics and fencing and dance
and astronomy and, but, but music,
but specifically horsemanship because
of the need for emotional control.
What do you have to say about that?
You, you talked about
the school of life there.
at your, at SELGE, your,
which is the name of your, the
acronym for your riding school.
Tell us about this emotional regulation.
Tell us about this school of life.
Sofia Valenca: You know, I can, I
can just say it in a very simple way.
If, if you want, if you want to
gain the respect of a horse, you
need to learn how to respect him.
And in life, it's the same.
If you want to be, if you want to sleep
at night, you need to be a good person.
And our family, family, as an
example, we are three, three sisters.
And Honestly, I think my parents,
they really did an amazing work,
an amazing job, the way they always
have taught us the values of life.
And Rupert, you have been here, you
know how much we respect each other.
In this world, there's a lot
of, especially in this dressage
world, there's a lot of egos,
like I'm better than you are.
And the people go to the competition tests
and it's always about I'm better than you.
And it's not about themselves,
but it's like proving to the
others that I'm better than you.
And this is something you
will not feel at our home.
It's like, there's a respect for the work
of each other that This is what I think
it's really what will bring a good team.
If I'm, if I'm doing something and
I need help, I will be the first one
to ask either my sisters, either my
colleague that it's next there, or
my father, of course, and we go very
in a very humble way saying, you
know, I'm dealing with this problem.
What do you think?
What are you seeing that I'm not seeing?
How can I be better?
And, you know, my sister, she jumps
and she goes like, show me, show
me what you're doing, show me.
And then, ah, maybe it's this, or
maybe it's that, or maybe it's that.
And this formula, it's what will bring
you to success, success, success,
success and it's not just about the
horses, it's just, you know, we.
I'm 40, almost 49 years old.
My sister, she's 40, 52.
My other sister, she's 50.
We still, every day, sit at
the table with my parents.
Every day, every day from at one o'clock,
we go home, we sit, we have lunch and we
talk about, well, always about horses,
of course, but you know, just because
we are paranoid about horses, but it's
everything like in a very nice way.
Always to become better every day.
We want to be better than the day before.
And every day we want to teach
the people that work with us.
To be better than we are, you know,
it's it's the biggest proud we we have
is to see riders that have started my
father riders that have start with us,
either myself or my sisters, and that
nowadays they are teaching and they
are immediately you see the lines,
the way they work, the way they teach.
It's like you see yourselves and
And this is, I think it's the most
beautiful homage people can give us,
is that if I teach someone and he
becomes better than I am, then was a
good, was a good way of being in life.
It's always about trying to, we, we,
we, what we do, it's not a secret.
What we do, it's on the
benefit of each horse.
In the world.
So if we are helping people to
understand better their horses,
so why not give them the tools?
that it's not a secret.
We don't want to bring that to,
to the, to the, to our coffin.
We don't want to put it in a
book that only when we die,
everybody will see about it.
We want it to pass in life.
And every day the horses will teach
you new things because, you know,
it's a, it's a learning curve.
You, you learn every day you
are learning something new.
And and if we are really helping
people to understand better their
horses, then, you know, I think it's
a good, it's, there's no egos here.
There's not this thing,
I'm better than you are.
There's this thing, you know, let's
do this together because we will
become stronger if we go together
on the same, on the same way.
Rupert Isaacson: It's definitely one of
the things which I think anyone who's
come into contact with the Valencia
school comes away with is this sense of.
Of a wider family and tribe that,
as you say, you guys set the example
by operating as both a close knit
family and an extended family,
but you're very, very welcoming.
So it's like coming to an
African village or a Mongolian
gare and you're welcomed in.
I had this experience with you
guys, you know, you won't say,
well, we're off for lunch right now.
We'll see you, you know, back in the
afternoon you, it was like, no, no,
come to lunch, come to lunch with
us and engage in the conversations.
That we are engaging in and share with us
this family, this tribal, this clan life.
And if one traces back the whole
lineage with horses, one sees, Oh yes.
Well, it came from tribes.
It was a tribal thing.
It was granddad and grandma
transmitting the knowledge.
To the next generation, to the next
generation and the young people up on
the young horses, because it didn't
matter if they got thrown off because
they're made of rubber and the older
people who don't bounce anymore, you
know, with the knowledge directing
and the knowledge being passed on in
this familial really friendly way.
Not an authoritarian way.
And then of course, in the modern
world, so many places where one goes to
try and acquire knowledge, whether it
doesn't have to be writing, it could be.
It could be a musical college,
it could be any university,
it could be business school.
So often the transmission of the knowledge
is done in this top down hierarchical way.
Which of course is never as good and I
remember one of the first lessons I ever
had from your father When I at the end of
the lesson, I said, oh, thank you for the
lesson He said I know Rupert that wasn't
a lesson that was simply a conversation
about a particular aspect aspect of
equestrianism and that's let's continue
talking about this over lunch and it blew
my mind because everywhere else I had been
the the the transmission had been much
more militarized because of course You
know, so much of riding particularly has
come down through the military tradition.
This thing of, and then, and then, as,
as one meets the other people who've
kind of gone through contact with
the Valencia school, a lot of them
support each other and remain in touch.
And then those of us that now run
riding schools of our own, we always
end up sending our people down to you.
You know, it's that logical thing where we
say, well, you know, at a certain point,
really, you shouldn't be learning from me,
you should be learning from my teacher.
And that there's this very easy flow
to the whole thing, which really
comes down to family and tribe.
And it seems to me that family and
tribe, it's one of the great lost
ethics, really, of our modern age.
Do you feel that in Portugal
that is just simply stronger?
Or do you think that your family and
what you do, it's even within Portugal,
it's something a bit exceptional?
You know?
Well,
Sofia Valenca: I think it's a
little bit exce exceptional.
I think, I'm not saying that other
families will not do this, but I
think my parents were really able
to transmit the, the good values.
of us to be able to work together and
keep working together with the respect
of always supporting each other.
Because sometimes, especially in
families, you always have a little bit,
this kind of jealousy or now I need
to be better than you because I want
to, you know, I'm the youngest sister.
I need to be a little bit
more smart because, you know,
I'm, I'm the smallest one.
And.
And this, because this is a little bit the
nature of the human being, it's a little
bit like unfortunately, it's a little
bit part of the nature of human animals.
They don't have this
kind of feelings, right?
There's, there's a dog is not, it's not
it does not want to be better than him.
It's just, maybe he wants to be
the, the leader, but not always
he is able to be the leader, but
it's, you understand what I mean?
They don't have this.
This, this kind of feelings that is only
part of the human being, and that's why
I think they really were very smart.
And again, don't ask me how they
did it because it was so natural.
I don't even know.
It's just, it's just there, but you
know, my father, a lot of you that
have listened my father's name.
It's like, for example, today, and
it, it, it just happened today, he
was on the phone with this Spanish
man and because he was just asking, he
saw a horse in, in in a public thing.
And so he was calling this man saying,
Oh, I see this horse and you know,
I'm looking for the horse with this
aspect and this, and and the man was
asking him, yes, but where do you live?
This, all this in Spanish.
And then my father said,
I live in Portugal.
Him in a very humble way.
I live in Portugal.
I have a writing center.
Yes.
What's your name?
I, my name is Felice Valenza.
And the man goes like, what?
You're not Felice Valenza.
You are Don Luis Valenza.
So the man knew him and he was being
so humble because, you know, he was
not, you know, I'm Luis Valenza.
Like he was like, no,
I'm just, I'm just me.
And it was really funny because sometimes.
People think he's in a pedestal and he's
not reachable, and then you arrive in our
facility, and maybe he's doing the garden,
or, you know, or putting water in the
arena, or painting a wall because it was
dirty, or, You know, it's the most humbled
man that I have ever met and, and I, it's,
I think this is beautiful because, and
if you go to him and you say, you are the
greatest master, it just shrinks himself.
And he says, no, I'm just a
person that every day tries
to be better than yesterday.
And every day I, and you know,
my father is now 77 years old.
And nowadays, if there's a horse that
arrives, and he goes, you know, a
little bit more complicated because he
needs to be, you know, the basics are
not there, and the horse is a little
bit more complex because the horse is
lost, that night, he will not sleep.
Or if he sleeps, He will dream
about what he will do the day after.
How can I help this horse?
How can I help this
horse to become better?
How can I help this horse
to understand what I want?
So it, and he's 77 years old.
And this is what real
still drives him every day.
To jump out from bed.
And he's the first one to arrive at
the facility is not the last one to
leave because it's like the chickens
when the sun goes down, he likes to
go to his home, but it's amazing.
It's amazing that the passion every
day he has to be there with the
horses, and I think this is, this is
very, this is very nice and unique
and and every day it gives us.
Lessons of life and and I just hope to be
as wise as he is passing all these values
to my, to my son, my daughters and well,
if, if I, if I was able to be half of what
he is, I was already very proud of myself.
Rupert Isaacson: Do you think
that whatever sphere in life,
it's not just about passion, it's,
it's about the tribe, the family?
And is it, do you feel that it's
as important in life to find
that tribe, to find that family?
You know, because not everybody comes
from a functional family, obviously.
And how do we, how would we,
you know, how do we go about
finding such a functional tribe?
Because I don't believe that
humans can thrive otherwise.
It's our
Sofia Valenca: nature.
It's hard.
It's hard.
It's hard and and you know, because
it's not, my father was also lucky
because it was not just his wisdom.
He was also lucky he had three girls and
the three of us in a very natural way.
And with the same passion,
we wanted to do what we do.
I give you an example.
Nowadays, my father has
seven grandchildren.
And only one is following this, this
passion which is Ines, my daughter.
She, she's crazy.
She, she was bitten by the bug and she's
like horse crazy, like as crazy as we are.
But then I have Beatrice.
She's a biologist.
And then I have Francisco.
That is still a 12 years old kid
that has no idea what he wants
to go to be when he grow up.
But as a tribe, as you mentioned, a
tribe will work with, with a direction
of bringing a project all together.
A tribe thinks in a
simple way, effective way.
But with the same purpose.
So for example, I give you the
example of my side of my family,
the one that I have built.
I choose for a man that I have married,
a man that has nothing to do with horses.
I do not regret it.
And just because.
He accepts who I am because he has
the same passion for what he does.
So he does understand there's, there's
this craziness about something that
make us work every day, every single
day, without stopping and without,
you know, there's no weekends, but
he has the same passion for what he
does has nothing to do with horses,
but he, he, he, he understands.
But then I was lucky.
Because he also has this
passion for something else.
So he understands, because if I had
a person in my life that would not
accept what I do, then the function of,
of bringing a tribe was not possible.
So it's not just what we do or
what my parents have created.
They were lucky because the three
of us, we wanted to do this.
So building this tribe, you know,
all the ingredients were there.
So will I be enough bringing the tribe
and having the tribe together like
my parents were able to do with us?
I don't know, because, you know,
Beatrice, one day she will want to
maybe go abroad and be a biologist,
a biologic, or a scientist, I
don't know, in German, or in China.
I don't know.
She will no longer be here, closer to us.
My son, I have no idea.
I know Ines, she will, she will keep
doing what we do, but I think the,
the ingredients to the success of, of
what we did was because we always, we
were all crazy about the same thing.
And so you understand
Rupert Isaacson: what I mean?
I do, I do, but it begs
another question though.
So for example, you say, so we all know
that horse people can be very insular.
We, we, we are a little
bit autistic in our way.
We, we are very, very, very focused on
one thing and we can send an entire dinner
table to sleep, you know, talking about
the shoulder in and then be mystified that
they were not as interested as we were.
But you said, for example, that your
husband does not share the passion
for horses, but he has a passion.
What's his passion?
Sofia Valenca: His
passion is a water sports.
So he's my husband is an athlete, okay,
he's an, is an athlete and he is a high,
how you say high level competition?
High level.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So to, to achieve
Rupert Isaacson: what he has, what's he,
Sofia Valenca: what's he doing?
He does kayak.
So he was running on marathons in
kayak and he won a lot of things.
And nowadays is the national coach.
Of Portuguese team of kayak in
marathon underwater in the open ocean.
So when someone has dedicated, you know,
as an athlete, if you want to be a top
athlete, you need to train every day and
you need to be focused in what you're
doing if you want to be on top, right?
So he understands this passion.
on his own world because, you
know, he's crazy about training.
He's crazy about, he
needs to train every day.
He needs to be doing
something related with sports.
He don't know the difference between
a donkey and the horse, even if
we are together for 28 years old
years, but is, is he always have
accept and respect and he share.
He is happy that I have this passion
because he also, he understands because
he also have a passion for another world.
So he understands because some
people, they don't understand why
we are so crazy about what we do.
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, this is it.
So, so it's what I'm feeling, groping for
here, I think is, is the, what, what makes
a tribe, what makes a tribe functional?
Because it, as you say, your, your parents
are quite lucky that the three daughters.
All wanted to do it.
But now there are these grandkids,
seven of them, only one, that's your
daughter, is going that direction.
Yet, your family's very tight, and you
all live in effectively a tribal compound.
You know, you, you, your houses
are, you know, very close to each
other, same bit of land on that
hillside, overlooking the river.
All very lovely.
You're, you're still
meeting for lunch every day.
Even the ones who are, you know, your
husband's coming up from the water,
you're coming up from the riding arena.
and you're exchanging.
So is the, and then you say,
as you know, Beatrice, she's
not, doesn't care from horses.
But she's loves the animal world, but
she's going to go a different direction.
But two words kept coming up
in, in, in, in, in this podcast.
One is respect.
The other one is passion.
So is the, is the way to find your tribe.
So for example, you and your
husband have found your own tribe
within the tribe, which one of
you has this thing with the horse.
One of you has this thing with.
with the water, but both of you
give each other the space to
perform that, because ultimately
you respect the each other value.
Well, also you see the value in, in,
in, in this passion and this endeavor
for its own sake, no matter what it is.
Is that the key?
Is that the key to the functioning
tribe, going back to this idea of, you
know, horses and the humanities and
these riding schools in the Renaissance
where people were engaging with it as
much for emotional regulation, to train
people to be courtiers and diplomats,
not just warriors, et cetera, et cetera.
Is this what it boils down to?
Is it passion and then respect
for other people's passions?
Sofia Valenca: I think so.
Now that, putting it like that I think,
I think that's, that's what it resumes.
It's like, if you respect and you have
a passion, I think it's the ingredients
that every family should have.
Respect and passion because respect
because you need to respect the other
if you want the other to respect you.
So it's, it's a mutual feeling and passion
because every morning you need to have
something that make you jump out of bed.
And if you don't have a passion in life,
what makes you wake up in the morning?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
It's, it's, it's.
It, it makes me think of
the shows that you guys do.
So we've talked a lot about the
training, but we haven't talked
as much about the Appassionata.
Now it's called Cavaluna, the show.
But when people see this show that
goes out, as you say, for seven months
all over Germany and has inspired
other similar types of show, which
you guys have helped to put together
as well in other parts of the world.
What that seems to come
down to me is dream.
People have a dream.
Maybe this dream is a little
girl's dream about riding a horse.
Maybe it's, somebody else's dream
about putting on a show or dance.
Maybe it's somebody else's
dream about being a biologist
or, or being a a kayaker.
But at some point before the passion,
there has to be a dream, doesn't there?
Sofia Valenca: Well, how, I think so.
I think that everybody, if you love
horses, even before you have been
a dresser rider, I'm pretty sure
that you have dream about horses.
Right.
So, and sometimes you dream about
something that you have no idea why
you dream about and then you discover
later on it will be a passion.
It's what is life without dreams?
What is life without passion?
It's everything is related, right?
So we need to dream like my father.
Sometimes he dreams about the horse
is going to train the next day because
it makes it's because it's a passion.
It's it's, we are, we
are quite crazy about it.
Right?
So you need to dream.
And if you don't dream,
you will not be motivated.
We need to dream.
I need to dream to be, to
what do I want in the future?
You need to dream.
When you think about the
future, you are dreaming somehow
because you are not yet there.
But you are already imagined,
what if I was there?
So you are dreaming.
So every, everybody
dreams about something.
Everybody dreams about the future.
It's all related with passion.
Everything is connected.
Everything is connected.
Rupert Isaacson: So is, is, is the
functional tribe, is the secret to that
encouraging the dreams of your children
so that the tribe can continue to find
passions and develop whether it's.
horses or whether the passion changes,
but the dreams of the children has to be
Sofia Valenca: always there, you
know, and that you need to encourage
your children to follow their dreams.
Even if you are afraid that their
dreams will bring them into a future
that you know, maybe they will, they
will have more difficulties because,
you know, for example, Inej, she wants
to follow this as a, as a professional.
And that's her dream.
I know it's hard because, you know, I
know in the end of the month, I really
need to be careful because, you know,
the horses, you can make money, but
they eat more than what they create.
So.
But, you know, one day my father
gave an example to someone, a
father of some children, that they
wanted to follow their dreams.
And nowadays they are very
important riders in the world.
And this parent, he was very
concerned because the kids, and
we are talking like 40 years ago.
So those kids, they wanted to follow their
passion, which was working with horses.
And this parent, he was very concerned
with the future of these kids.
And my father said to this, to
this father, you know, better if
they eat soup, but they are happy.
Then they eat lobster,
but they are unhappy.
And this sentence always
stayed inside of my mind.
Because, you know, we only live once.
And we really should
do what make us happy.
And if we are able to survive doing what
make us happy, then life was enough.
Rupert Isaacson: Even better
if we can show other people
how to share in that happiness.
Sofia Valenca: And I think that's a little
bit of what I have dreamed about my life.
And I'm following my dream.
Rupert Isaacson: It's a sort
of inner child thing, isn't it?
The following, never losing sight of
that little girl or that little boy that
was inside you, dreaming that dream.
Where I think you were lucky,
where I was lucky too, was
that your parents, my parents.
Again, this word respect had an
innate respect for the power of
dream and the necessity of dream.
And as you said, the necessity of
passion, what makes you get up out
of bed in the morning, even though
my parents were not horsey at all.
But they did respect the time and
effort and passion that I put into it.
And although it mystified them, they.
They encouraged the show
that you guys put on.
The current one, Cavaluna, the last time
I saw it what I realized was that, yeah,
of course the audiences and there's,
you know, hundreds of thousands of
people that come and see this show.
It's, it's an amazing show.
It is like Cirque du Soleil with horses.
What initially makes them want
to come is that they're going
to see amazing horsemanship.
They're going to see amazing stuff.
They're going to have, there's going to
be a wow factor, but of course, every
show that you guys put on has a story.
As a narrative that goes through, that
carries each act, each number, you know,
through so there's a logical progression.
A story is told with a beginning, middle
and end with characters on some sort
of fairy tale, on some sort of quest.
Facing dilemmas, finding resolution.
There happen to be horses involved,
but there's also dancers, there's
also musicians, and it's a story
that would hold up just as well
if there were no horses involved.
It just happens to, that the acting
is done with actors with four
legs as well as actors with two.
You guys are really a
dream factory, aren't you?
You, you, you, you hatch these dreams.
You put these dreams on for the wider
world, but yet if people want to come
and participate, In the nuts and bolts,
as you've been describing, Valencia
Method, how you put these horses together
to tell the stories of these dreams.
Well, they can come and do that too.
They can come and engage at
every level in the dream.
Sofia Valenca: Yes,
maybe that's what we do.
Rupert Isaacson: And that's, that's,
that's magical because I think
what, what is the power of story?
It takes one outside of time and space.
It, it takes one into another
dimension, another reality.
That's outside of it.
It's like a trance state.
It's, you know, it's
like a shamanic state.
We are after all the storytelling, right?
Sofia Valenca: You know, when, when
you live in a dream, the dream loses
the power of being in the dream.
So for us, it's, it's what we do.
It's just.
normal, but with, with the people
that come and visit us and and we are
lucky enough because we have amazing
people that come and, and visit us.
So to learn with us and they
all have this, this open
mind and really open heart.
And yeah, somehow every week, because
you know, people come for a week and
then they go and then other people come.
So like every week, we
somehow they remind us.
how cool we are doing what we do.
So I think, yes, I think
we, that's what we do.
We, we make dreams come true.
I think it's really, especially
our horses, we are just the
interpreter of the horses.
You know, our school masters are
the ones that really make dreams
Rupert Isaacson: come true.
One of the things which, you know, there's
a, there's a, there's an increasing
conversation now in the animal world.
this business of consent, you know,
do I have the right to ride a horse?
Do we have the right to own dogs?
Do we have the right to
et cetera, et cetera?
It seems that in this in this day
and age, we're increasingly having a
conversation now, hearing a conversation
where stuff that was not said 20 years
ago, should we even be riding horses?
Does the horse have consent in this?
Should we even own animals at all?
Should we own a dog?
You know, for people of my generation,
this is a bit of a new thing.
You're talking about dreams
and setting people free.
I believe that this happens
for the horse as well.
So for example, your work has
helped me work with special needs.
Children and people with the horse
moving underneath them in a way that
transmits well being and helps with
communication But because in my world
a lot of the horses that come to the
centers that we help to create For the
work with autism and other special needs.
These are horses that are donated
These are often horses that are
not bought and of course they're
donated for a reason because they're
usually a bit broken because People
don't give away their best horses.
They, you know, give away horses that
they've messed up and One of the things
which I have discovered But I think
you're well aware of but I don't think
it comes up so much in the conversations
That people come to you with is the
rehabilitation of horses I would say that
your method the Valencia method I use it
Daily to help bring horses to well being
and a lot of those horses that come to
me come broken they come broken in the
body they come broken in the mind and By
working through the patterns that you guys
have shown me I've seen I've lost count
now of the number of horses that have come
to this well being which one would always
hope for, but it's, it's such a radical
transformation in the horse, mentally
and emotionally, as well as physically.
Has this become a greater and greater
part of the conversation around your work?
Sofia Valenca: The, the well being of
the horse, well, what people and today,
just today, it's funny that we, we, we
are bringing this, this topic to, to
the conversation, because today I was
talking with one of our clients, she
comes, she comes from the United States.
And and she was just amazed how
all the horses are so happy.
It's like, you know, there's not
a single horse that it will not.
The horses are happy and and that
bring that says a lot on the way they
are, you know, a horse will not lie.
If the horse is not feeling
well, you will not lie.
You will not be like
performing, Oh, it's a client.
I need to make her happy.
Let's just pretend I'm happy.
You don't have this.
The horse is happy
because it's feeling good.
And we have, I think also because the
same way you have you know, sometimes
we find horses that are It's like
giving them a chance of another life.
And a lot of horses that we, we use as
co masters are horses that had a life
before and not always that life was good.
So a lot of horses have arrived
to us, you know, you know,
what is a horse with no soul?
It's like this, you look
into his eye and it's empty.
It's an empty eye and, you know, after
a month or two, you start to feel
that that horse finally has a soul.
It was just deep inside of him and,
and I think the horses, they feel
really, it's like they feel appreciated.
They, they feel the gratitude
of having that a second life.
There's, I think, a horse
that had a previous life.
That was not the best life.
Once he experiments the good life,
that horse is, it's like, it's
a, how you say, it's appreciated.
It's a, no, it's grateful.
It's grateful.
Grateful.
Well, that,
Rupert Isaacson: that, that,
that's the, that's the final
part of the secret, isn't it?
It's the secret to happiness, gratitude,
whether you have two legs or four.
Sofia Valenca: And, and and it's
in a very simple way you, you know,
this, because when you work with
animals, they, they are, they don't
lie and being able to transform a
horse in something makes him happy.
I think it's.
It's really nice.
And, and you don't do this expecting
them to do something in exchange.
You do this because it
makes you feel good, right?
It's like, it's like, Like charity,
when you help someone, you help
because it, it makes you feel good.
And, and it's also part
of what, what we do.
And yeah, it's, it's a good life to say.
But remember when you said a
lot of people say, should we be
riding a horse or should we do?
Having a dog, I could, I cannot imagine
my life without an animal and I have 12
dogs as yes, you know, I have a lot of
animals that I need to be surrounded and,
and remember when I said when we start
to work a horse, we start to study him in
what he will be good at a horse is much
happier if you have a purpose in life.
And then a horse that lives a lifetime in
a paddock with no goals in life, a horse
that lives in a paddock, just eating.
It's a more unhappy horse
than a horse that attention.
We need to provide him a good life.
It's not not just forcing a horse
to do what he's not meant to do.
But if that horse.
That you are trying to train, that
you are respecting, that you are
trying to reach in what he's good at.
If his life is good at doing
trail rides, he will be the most
happier horse doing trail rides.
If he's good in the ring doing dressage,
he will be the best horse doing dressage.
If he's good doing...
I don't know.
Working accreditation, he will
be happy because he has a job.
He has, he has, he's not depressed.
I have seen a lot of horses that,
you know, they're just there and
they feel like they're not as happy.
It's the same with people.
You know, if we don't have a
purpose, we become more depressive.
We need to have a purpose in life.
Rupert Isaacson: It's true.
At the end of the day, we're all mammals.
We all, we all have this.
And I, I, we need this.
I suppose people might say, well,
in the wild, the horse doesn't
have, but, but he does because
Sofia Valenca: he does,
because it's survival.
This, the, this.
Exactly.
He's very active.
Yeah, but they need to be in the wild.
Yeah.
Not in a paddock where you go and
put the foot to him where, you
know, just the flies annoying them.
That's a very boring life.
Yeah.
It's really boring.
They, they need, they need
to be, to be challenged.
The same with dogs, you know.
And of course, each breed has its own
skills, but they need, they need to
feel that they have a purpose in life,
even if it's just to make you happy.
That's the purpose.
To make
Rupert Isaacson: us happy.
The exchange of happiness, what is it they
say, the greatest wisdom you'll ever learn
is how to love and be loved in return.
And I remember the first time
I, I remember hearing that the
first time as a sort of young
man thinking, Oh, what are you?
What do they mean?
What do they mean?
And then as I grew older and older
thinking, not as easy as it sounds.
Yeah.
Sofia Valenca: But we, we, it's not
as easy as it sounds because also we
like to make things more complicated.
In the end of the day, we just need
to think that sometimes we make things
more complicated than what they are.
Rupert Isaacson: That is true.
Especially we monkeys.
Sofia Valenca: Yes.
Yes.
The monkeys are the worst.
Rupert Isaacson: Maybe we need a
horse and a dog to cool us out.
I, I, I, I'm a great believer that when
I see the horses transmitting well being.
I guess you could say it's biological.
It's the mammalian caregiving system.
Dogs giving us love, horses
giving us love, we returning it.
But nonetheless that's, that's,
that's the organism, right?
That, that's, that's who we all are.
We're not reptiles.
We, we exchange on an emotional level.
And if this is missing from
our lives, human or animal, as
you say we become depressed.
And I think your point about purposes
is very, very true purpose and service.
Not servitude, not being a servant,
but service, which, which is the
choice, the choosing because I've
watched you working with your horses.
I've a horse that they're
not forced to do anything.
They, they do it and, and, and
the, the overall impression.
One comes away with on a heart
level, not just an intellectual
level, but on a heart level is joy.
I don't think I, to the listeners.
If you're not horsey, it doesn't matter.
Go to the living museum.
That is the Valencia's riding
stables in, in, uh, Lisbon.
You don't need to be an artist or
an art historian to appreciate a
trip around the National Gallery.
And you don't need to be an architect
to appreciate a beautiful building.
And the history behind it, and
you don't need to be a chef to
know good food when you eat it.
You don't need to be a vintner
to appreciate good wine.
Beauty in art, when you
see it, always stands out.
And this living equestrian art,
which still exists and has come
down to us through the centuries and
the millennia, and is still being
practiced and presented in this way.
It's worth seeing just for itself.
When you go into the Valencia's
riding arena, it's It's Baroque, the
pictures on the wall, the art, the
feel, but also there's a tribune.
There's a place where you can sit
just to watch just in the same way.
If you go to the Spanish riding school
in Vienna, you can just sit in the
balcony and watch as they work with the
horses and practice their art, practice
their living art in front of you.
Do yourself a favor when you go down
to Lisbon next time, include that
as part of your cultural experience.
And I think you're going to find that
you come away with a feeling of joy
and participation in that tribe, not
just the cultural interest of the
whole thing that will surprise you.
So if people want to do this Sophia,
how do they get in contact with you?
How do they, how can they find their
way to this temple of the horse that is
Sofia Valenca: your place?
You can visit our website,
ValenciaQuestionAcademy.
com.
You will find all the contacts there
and what we do and it will be a nice
introduction for What you do what we do
Rupert Isaacson: Valencia Equestrian
Sofia Valenca: Academy
Rupert Isaacson: dot com and
please spell Valencia for us
Sofia Valenca: V A L E N C A
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
So for for those with An ear that a
lot of people add an eye to it and say,
oh, Valencia, like the town in Spain.
No, Valen Valen
Sofia Valenca: Valen equestrian
Rupert Isaacson: academy.
Valencia equestrian academy.com.
And they can find an
email link to you there.
Exactly.
Sofia Valenca: Well, the email, yes, the
email you want me to say the email it
Rupert Isaacson: would be helpful.
I think that's, yeah,
,
Sofia Valenca: the, the email is info.
At Valencia equestrian academy.com,
Rupert Isaacson:
info@valenciaequestrianacademy.com.
And people can also
come and learn with you.
They can come and do courses with you.
They can come and Yes.
Learn this horsemanship.
Sofia Valenca: Exactly.
So we do have some programs that
include the lessons and some others
that includes also some sighting
which is, you know, since you're in
Portugal this is a beautiful country.
So you can have the
both of the best worlds.
Like a little bit sightseeing
or adolescence as well.
And can people,
Rupert Isaacson: if they can't
get to, they're so busy in their
riding arenas at home, if they
want Valences to come to them?
Is that possible?
Do you guys travel and teach as
Sofia Valenca: well?
We do.
We do also clinics worldwide.
We, we do nowadays we go to United
States, Australia, New Zealand within
in Europe, we go to Italy, France,
Belgium, German, Spain England.
And yeah, that's, those that You
will find us and and if one of those
countries is not in the list, we can
always add a new country if you want
one of us to go and travel to, to you.
So the clinics, it's usually it works
like two days or three days clinics
and where we will set a place and
people travel with their horses there
and then we just do a clinic there.
Rupert Isaacson: So if somebody
wants to learn the steps of this
dance that you were discussing with
their own horse, It is possible.
They can bring you to them, and you
guys, your team, will help them.
Sofia Valenca: Yes, we can.
Yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Fantastic.
Well, all I can say is having participated
in that dream myself and having
found what a beautiful dream it is.
and how it's set me and the horses I
work with and the people that I work with
my horses with, how it set us all free.
Truly, I would strongly encourage
listeners to participate in this dream.
It's a very good dream.
Sophia, thank you so much for coming on.
Thank
Sofia Valenca: you.
Thank you.
It's my pleasure.
And you are always welcome.
For those who want to visit us, it
will be our pleasure to receive you
in Portugal in Villa Franca de Gira.
It's just 20 minutes north of Lisbon.
So very, very easy, very close
to, to the airport as well.
And and if you feel Afraid of
traveling to another country that
you don't know we provide everything
We'll pick you up at the airport.
We'll bring you to our facility we will
take care of you and you will not feel
lonely and You will be part of the family.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, and listeners.
It's true Because it happened
Sofia Valenca: to me.
It did.
Thank
Rupert Isaacson: you so much.
Oh, thank you, Sophia.
Now, some listeners will have questions.
Can we have you back on to
answer those questions as they
come in for a second round?
Sure.
Sofia Valenca: My pleasure.
That would be
Rupert Isaacson: fantastic.
Sofia Valenca: I can't wait.
That will be, that will be amazing.
Rupert Isaacson: So if you've
got questions that you want to
ask her, what is a shoulder in?
What is this dance?
How does it work?
For example, write them down,
send them to us and we will
have her back to answer them.
Okay.
Sofia Valenca: My pleasure.
I'll be waiting for it.
Thank you.
Bye.
Rupert Isaacson: Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Sofia Valenca: Bye.
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you for joining us.
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