Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The "No BS" version of how startups are really built, taught by actual startup Founders who have lived through all of it. Hosts Wil Schroter and Ryan Rutan talk candidly about the intense struggles Founders face both personally and professionally as they try to turn their idea into something that will change the world.
Welcome back to the episode of
the Startup Therapy Podcast.
This is Ryan Rutan,
joined as always by my
friend, the founder,
and CEO of startups.com.
Will Schroeder will,
authenticity is a
fuel unfiltered.
Authenticity is kind of
like spraying that fuel
through a flame thrower.
Um, so today I think it'd
be fun to talk about when
speaking your truth helps and
when it might just be nuking
your team, your brand, your
runway, your relationships.
If you had to put
a number on it.
About what percentage of the
time do you feel like being your
authentic self is a great idea?
I think if we really ran
the numbers, and I feel like
maybe I have, I think just
be yourself is wonderful
advice 6% of the time.
I might be generous on that.
Do you feel
like that's true for everyone
or are you giving yourself
a very specific score?
Is that just general?
That number would be, everyone
needs to adhere to this number.
That number would be way lower.
I'd be like, just be yourself.
It never will.
Just never, ever, ever.
And you know, I always
say this thing, right?
And I say like, when I come home
and I talk to my wife about my
day and stuff like that, she's
like, well, why didn't you
say that when you're at work?
I'm like, baby, I, I can't.
Right.
Like the There is and, and
'cause we have an HR department.
Oh yeah.
Like, it just, it would
be, it would be wonderful.
Right.
Yeah.
And not that I'm holding
so many things back or I'm
so pent up course, but like
there's a level of diplomacy
that comes with this job.
Yes.
That if you don't
understand, and Ryan,
we see a lot of people.
Don't understand that level
of diplomacy, and especially,
and I gotta say this, I think
generationally, folks that have
come up through social media
where it's all about expressing
yourself all the time.
Yeah.
And then they get
into the work world.
How about this?
When people get into the
work world and they don't
realize their employers
are gonna Google them.
Right.
As the first thing that they do.
And see all of the dumb shit
that they've been posting for
their entire lives and like
doesn't even occur to them that
you weren't supposed to do that.
I was living my authentic self.
Yeah.
Well now your authentic
self isn't very employable.
Yeah.
I think we have to recognize
that authenticity's a tool
shouldn't be a a, a reflex and
that look like we're not asking
anybody to hide themselves.
But you should edit
a little bit, right?
Like, like most of my
best work, it requires
a little editing, right?
You gotta edit a
little.
So, you know, I always, I was
say to my wife, I was like,
yes, there's things that I
feel right, but I don't get to
express them because there's
a consequence to it, right?
Like, yes, theoretically, any of
us, you know, you, me and any,
our leadership team should be
able to say whatever they want.
Yep.
But
you can't.
Right, right.
And that's the part that
I think it takes people
a minute to understand.
Is that what you say
has so much consequence?
Stick on that for a second
because I think that's an
important piece of this,
which is you and I are
always talking from the
founder perspective, right?
So Right.
In this case, your title
amplifies your, your tone.
Even a whisper from us can sound
like a verdict to the team.
And, and so I think it's
super, super important.
I, I couldn't important that we,
we hammer this point home, uh,
with, with what's the biggest
hammer you got in the workshop?
Will
I, A lot of them, but in early
in my career, I didn't get that.
And I was, you know, I was very
young and I would be in the
office, I would make offhanded
comments and things like that.
Sure.
And I didn't appreciate
the gravity to which
they were received.
And I remember there was at some
point, like figure, like I'm in
my like early to mid twenties at
the time and I'm like, you know,
five or six years on the job.
And I noticed that when we,
uh, go out to lunch or go out
to drinks, and mind you, all
my coworkers were my same age.
So there's nobody above
30 years old at the time.
Right, right.
I noticed I was.
Kind of getting invited out
less and less and, and I
couldn't quite figure out why.
Yep.
And again, at the time I was
learning this all for the first
time, so I had no context.
Yeah, you were really, none
of us would known being I why
I knew this was happening,
bounce of wisdom at that age.
But what I started to realize
was no one wants to hang
out with their boss because
there's also consequence
the other direction.
When they say something
like, I hate something.
It's like, and you're sitting
right there, you have an
opportunity to be able to
say, oh, well, maybe you
shouldn't be working here.
Right, right.
You know, I mean,
something crazy like that.
Or if I say something, you
know, we're out having drinks or
whatever, we're all hanging out.
We're we're, we're being kinda
loose lipped, if you will.
And I say, man, I really,
I've really been struggling
to come to work every.
Right.
Needle off the record.
Right, right.
Like, wait, what?
Right.
The, the guy who signed
her paychecks, uh, doesn't
wanna come to work.
Okay.
Let me update my
LinkedIn profile.
This might be, I mean,
we're, we're all in agreement
then, sir, but how does this
end, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's like.
But I'm sitting
there going, yeah.
But I was being
my authentic self.
Right, right.
I I, I was speaking my truth.
Yeah, you were.
That's the problem.
You were right.
I was just being myself and
it's, that's the problem's still
important to consider
all the time.
I, I never miss a
chance to quote my dad.
Right.
You know, this, that one
nugget of his that I love,
I don't know where he got it
from, but communication is the
burden of the sender, right?
Yeah.
Meaning we have to consider
how we're saying it.
Why we're saying it,
should we be saying it?
All these things
that go into it.
But we have to consider how
it's gonna be received and
we have to think through
what's the person on the side
of this gonna gonna think?
And it's funny, like, as you
were saying that about like the,
you know, the, the team dropping
things that you react to.
It took me a while, if I'm
honest, to see comments like.
TGIF in our team Slack
and be like, so great
about being Friday.
Like it we're.
We, we need more days of work,
like we're not done with shit.
Like I, I've seen what
you put out this week.
You shouldn't be
glad this Friday.
Yeah, it's Wednesday, right?
It took me a long time to
get over that and like that
was, it was my problem.
It wasn't their problem.
They were just happy it's
Friday, why wouldn't you
be happy it's Friday.
They'd worked hard all week.
Right.
They're ready for a weekend.
But that wasn't my mentality.
It wasn't the way I received it.
I'm just like, you just don't
wanna be working right now.
And people pick up on that.
You know what, whether
you verbalize it or not.
And that's, that's kind
of, you know, what this
all comes, comes back to.
I always think it in terms of,
um, honesty being a privilege.
Uh, being able to just say
exactly how you feel and not
have to be consequential in what
happens.
Hold on, stick on that for
a second because I wanna
tie this all the way back to
something else you said in
a previous episode because
I think this is sort of one
of the same, which we said,
taking risk is a luxury, right?
Being able to take risk is
a luxury to some degree,
depending on how honest you
get, you are definitely pushing
the risk factor there, right?
And so I think that those,
those two concepts do
directly tie together.
Right.
And, and I used to think
about it in terms like when
I was young and, you know,
poor, I used to think I'm not
allowed to be honest, because
if I'm being honest, there's
a consequence to that that
could actually affect me in a
very, you know, negative way.
Yeah.
And then I looked at Rich kids
and I looked how, how Effortly
effortlessly honest they could.
And I admired that because
I'm like, man, you know,
you can say some crazy shit
and the person on the other
side has to take it because
you have money to give them.
Right?
It's the equivalent of
like somebody's at a hotel.
The maer dee, or you know,
or the, the, the concierge
isn't treating them well
and they just lay into 'em.
Right?
Yeah.
Because they know they
have this power and this
lack of consequence.
And all I could think to
myself was like, I can't even
believe I'm at this hotel.
Like the idea of complaining,
it makes me think I'm
gonna get kicked out.
Right?
Yeah.
Um, just totally
different mentality.
And so when I see,
uh, young founders.
Like myself back then, go
into the, into this job,
you know, into the CEO job.
And again, you see 'em
on social media right.
Saying like, just
whatever they want.
Right?
And I'm like, dude,
like you can't do that.
Yeah.
Or saying stuff to their
staff, you know, they'll
come to me like, I'm having a
problem with my staff member.
Here's what I want
to say to 'em.
Like, whoa, you cannot say that.
Right?
Like, you'll be in a lawsuit.
Right.
Like, or worse.
Right.
I think for a lot of founders,
um, they struggle with this.
They struggle with this
idea that if I'm not saying
exactly what's in my head,
you know my truth so to
speak, that that's a problem.
And I'm saying, no,
that's a solution.
Do a lot of things.
You know,
he's a real straight shooter.
We also don't allow firearms
in here, so we're not sure
how this is gonna work out.
It's funny, but you, you
do have to pick between
being real and I think being
responsible again, because the
communication can have so many
outcomes that are unintended.
Um, most of the time I would
say, I think I, if you, if
you have something that you
honestly do need to share and
you know, it might cause harm,
but you have to, anyways.
That happens.
Right?
That happens too.
Yep.
Because I, I a hundred
percent know what you're
not, what not saying is
sweep shit under the rug.
Right.
Just, just look the other way.
Just don't say what
needs to be said.
What you're saying is.
Put a pretty heavy
filter in front of that
before you decide, right?
Because we can't just,
everything that occurs to us
fall out of our mountains.
Well, we, we can, it
tends to not happen.
We,
that's the problem.
And here's the thing, like
I don't have a great filter.
Like my, my filter over
the years, over the decades
has not been my strongest
suit, even though I'm
aware of why that filter.
I mean, we're literally
doing an episode specifically
about the filter.
And so I, I'm the last person
to say that I'm great at it,
but I'm well aware of it.
I, I'm well aware of,
you know, where and how.
That can kind of
work against you.
And again, we're going back
to all the different places
where this starts to manifest.
One of the places, uh, that
we see is, we talked about
a moment ago is, you know,
founders on social media, right?
Like, ah, you know, I,
I wanna post everything
and put everything on.
Okay?
But dude, like, you're
not just a person on
social media anymore.
You are a CEO of a company Now.
A leader at a company and
everything that you post has a
whole other consequence to it.
'cause the people that
are seeing are the people
that work with you.
They're the people that
may work with you someday.
You know, so they're
seeing what you post.
They're your customers,
they're your investors, they're
your, the media, et cetera.
You have to start thinking about
all of those different outlets.
Whereas before it was just
what your friends thought
and you know, what, what
likes and comments you got.
Yeah.
Now it's like that's the
least of your concerns.
And I think it takes people
a minute to process that.
I think that one of the
things that gets lost is that
intention is private, right?
My intent is locked
up within me, right?
You may hear 10 words
come outta my mouth.
There were probably a thousand
thoughts behind that, right?
And so there was probably
a whole lot of intention
that's not gonna get carried
in the way that I intended
it to in those 10 words.
But the thing we have
to remember is the
intention's private, but
the impact is super public.
Depending on where this gets
said, which it's becoming harder
and harder to find a corner in
which you can say things where
that it doesn't come to light.
Um, and again, not that that
founders are just out there,
you know, m fing everybody,
and, and like just having
nothing bad things to say.
But there are a lot of truths
to being a founder that can't
just be shared unvarnished.
Right.
Right.
In the same way we expect
our wine to be aged and
our vodka to be distilled.
We like our
communication to come
through that way too.
Well, so, so, uh, play on that.
Now when I'm communicating
within the company, right,
again, I'm thinking, uh,
everybody needs to be, be honest
and transparent, et cetera.
And I understand what
those words mean, and
I understand what, what
value those words have.
That doesn't mean
they're right, right?
Yes, transparency sounds
great, but there is a time
and a place for transparency.
Okay?
Sure.
It's the way I think
about being a parent.
Yep.
Kid comes to me and
says, Hey, do you think
I could be president?
You, you have two
different answers, right?
One is honesty and transparency,
and one is filtered.
Okay?
The honesty and transparency
is there's a 99.999% chance
that will never happen, right?
So yes, give it up right now.
That's honest,
like statistically.
It's only happened to,
is it 47 people in the
history of America?
Right?
And so it, it's statistically
it ain't gonna happen, right?
So you could say that and you
could dim the spirits of this
child and in all these things.
Or you could just filter and
say, that's a hard job to get.
In order to do it, you're
gonna have to work really
hard and actually have
a positive outcome.
Now, the cynical person
could say, well, you're not
being honest with that child.
Yeah, you're right.
I'm not being right straight up.
I'm not, but if I am,
the consequence of that
is negative, right.
I'm, I'm, I buy nothing
and it costs a lot.
And I think that's the,
the filter that folks
need to start to apply.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I, I think that we have to
go back to that, you know,
the fact there's a, the very
different power dynamic when
we're talking founder to like
rest of the team, founder to
clients, founder to market.
There's always an
imbalance there and, yep.
And so founder words are heavy.
Your employees
can't unhear them.
Your, your investors can't
unhear them and they won't.
And so, you know where we
might have meant empathy?
Employees heard
evaluation, right?
The, you know, you look,
you look a little tired.
LANs is, you look
replaceable, right?
So we have to remind
ourselves that we can't
just export raw emotion.
We have to expert
consider direction.
Intention and man,
the, the startup world
does punish venting.
Right?
It yeah.
Rewards composed clarity.
Right.
It does like, right.
We like honesty again, clarity.
That is a great way to put
it.
Yeah.
Package that shit a little
bit
before you throw it at us.
If I could Marty McFly back
to my 1990 self and, you
know, go back to that version
of that CEO and kind of,
you know, uh, try to, uh,
convince him differently.
Yeah.
Here's what I would've said.
I would've said, how
you're acting is fine.
When you're not at work, right.
Be a, an idiot, 27-year-old
doing idiot things.
Yeah.
Not at work.
When, when you leave
the office, right.
And, and you're in your
own private domain, be the
idiot that you want to be.
Yeah.
Right.
And you, you've earned that.
But the moment you walk
through this door, you have
to be a different person.
Right.
Uh, because that person,
while you know you wanna
make jokes and you want
to engage with everybody,
you wanna be everybody's
friend, is absolutely
inappropriate in this office.
And so what's interesting is I
don't think, at the time, again,
I didn't have the maturity yet.
I didn't understand that
two people could exist.
And it felt inauthentic,
if I'm being honest.
But now when I look back and
I look at a lot of the people
that I've worked with over
the years that were older and
certainly more mature than me,
that's exactly what they did.
And they did it to great effect.
Yeah.
They, they, they, they,
they put on their, um,
their work uniform, so to
speak, and did work stuff.
And then when they were
done, they took it off
and did whatever the
hell they do otherwise.
I wish I understood
that better back then.
Yeah.
And it's funny to me that like.
We do have a hard time seeing
that, especially in the
beginning because it becomes so
apparent in other parts of life.
Like the way I act with my
spouse is very different than
the way I act with my kids,
than the way I act with my
soccer teammates than the way I
act with my my parents, right?
And so like we have these
different versions of our
persona that we utilize
on a regular basis.
I think that we need to
recognize more that like
the one that probably needs
the most cultivation one
that's gonna come to us least
naturally because we're not
gonna have had other examples
of it just floating around
us for our entire lives.
Um, and that maybe we don't
have the same feedback
loops and mechanisms is
that as a founder right?
To we have to be careful and
it's, it's not inauthentic
to act differently at work.
That's what we used to call.
Being professional.
Right.
Which I know,
I was gonna say the
same thing going out the
window, probably in an office
that nobody goes to anymore.
That window might even be
there anymore for all I know.
But, but isn't it amazing
though that like, um, it it,
we've gotten to a point where
it doesn't even occur to us
that, that we may need another
version of ourselves, right?
Yeah.
Again, we, we've, we've pounded
this narrative into ourselves
so heavily that I have to be
true and authentic, et cetera.
With that, with that narrative,
we've lost the concept that
there is a consequence to that.
Like, that's not free.
You don't get just to say
whatever you want and have no
consequence or worse get angry.
Yeah.
When someone, you know, when
things don't go your way
because you were being honest,
your coworker comes to you or
something that your employee,
let's say, comes to you and
said, I'm really struggling
with how things are going.
I'm really unhappy with,
with my role, you know,
whatever their concern is.
Okay.
And you've got a couple
different ways you
can go with it, right?
One is you can say, you know,
honestly, you should probably
be looking for another job.
You could just be dead honest
and, and I'm sure there's
folks that would do that and,
and I bet the folks that are
doing that go home and tell
their spouse that's exactly
what they needed to hear.
Probably not by the way.
You know, I think that's one
of the, I think that's one
of the easy traps too, which
is that there's this sense
that by saying that, like,
oh, I got that off my chest.
Right.
I handled that as
cleanly as I could have.
Yep.
For you.
However, person on the other
side, it's, I think we, we
always have to be careful and
this maybe this is simple and
easy litmus test as you're
thinking about how it's gonna
be received, if your honesty
is gonna make you feel lighter.
Your team, your investors,
whoever, whoever the,
the recipient's gonna be.
Feel heavier.
It's probably not
great leadership.
Probably not what was needed at
the
moment.
You know, something that's
really funny about everything
we talk about here is
that none of it is new.
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.
You may just not know it.
But that's okay.
That's kind of what
we're here to do.
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually
solve these problems all
dayLong@groups.startups.com.
So if any of this sounds
familiar, stop guessing
about what to do, let us just
give you the answers to the
test and be done with it.
Brian, I don't think a lot of
people, just as humans really
understand that balance or,
or that transaction, right?
So, for example, I
see a lot of this.
I see, well, I said what was
honest, I said how I felt,
but they responded poorly.
And I'm like, well,
hold on a second.
Um, you're pretending as
if your honesty was gonna
have no impact, right?
To your point, it
made you feel better.
It made you feel better,
but you're pretending
like that there was
gonna be no consequence
to what you just said.
Yeah, and I see
this all the time.
I see this like in, you know,
marriages and stuff where,
where I, I see people going
back and forth and they're
like, well, you know, he
or she doesn't understand,
doesn't understand me.
I was like, it's because
you haven't listened
to them whatsoever.
Or you've just been shitty.
And, and I always think about,
and I ask people, I say, if
you were them, how would you
be processing that situation?
Time and time again, they're
like, I have no idea.
Yeah.
I'm like, I like boom.
Probably you exercise zero.
Empathy.
I'm the opposite.
Like, I process every
situation by how the
other person processes it.
Like that's, that is my
first instinct on everything.
And, and that's not always the
right way to approach either.
My, my wife will tell me, I'll,
I'll come home and she's like.
You should have said
something different.
Right?
I was like, ah, I would, I'd
hurt their feelings or whatever.
And she's like, yeah, but you
didn't get your point across.
I'm like, yeah, that's fair.
Yeah.
But again, that's, that's
the, I think we've gotten so
used to self-edit editing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, again, it's that, that
96% of the time, or 94% of
the time where, you know,
we are, we are not saying
exactly what's on our mind,
and we are, we're constantly
considering the audience, and
we've talked about this in
a number of different ways,
but I, I keep seeing it come
back to the forefront, which
is that, especially early on.
Founders are constantly in
pitch mode that it's easy
to lose sight of the, the
fact that we are kind of
constantly editing, constantly
worrying about the reactions
to things, and it can go, it
can go way too far, right?
Like if you, if you're a hundred
percent edited all the time,
probably an ingredient we forgot
to list into our recipe for
epic burnout a couple weeks ago.
But it's definitely, yeah, it
can go the other direction too.
For a lot of people, it's hard
to express how they feel or, or
you know, they don't have the
confidence to express, like I
have the confidence to express
it, but I also have the filter
to be able to say, what is
the cost of that expression?
Yeah,
right.
Somebody's behind on a deadline,
I'm just making some up.
Somebody's behind on a deadline
and I just run the calculus.
I say, is my reaction
proportionate to how this
will affect the outcome?
Right.
In other words, if I blow
up, but we've already
missed the deadline, what
am I really achieving?
Yeah.
What's happening, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like,
I'll feel better, but like,
I haven't fixed the problem.
And a lot of people don't
have, don't even have
that, that calculus.
Right?
They're just like,
I'll feel better.
That's, that's,
that's it.
Yeah.
So I think that's,
that's important.
Right?
I think if we, if we zoom
out a little bit, what, what
you just said, if I pair it
back to you, it's something
like, these are kinda like
the, the filter checks a
against the 6% time, right?
Should I be honest?
It would be something like
what are the stakes, right?
Is this a values or a
character moment, right?
Is there enough on the
line that honesty really,
really matters here, right?
Who's the audience?
Can they carry the
weight of the honesty?
'cause we have to
consider that too.
And then finally,
the outcome, right?
And will, we'll, saying
this with honesty to this
particular audience actually
have a measurable positive
impact or will blowing up just
dishearten them even more.
Knowing that we still
have to go fix whatever
we screwed up, right?
Right.
We missed the deadline.
Now I'm gonna completely
demotivate my team by,
by harping about it and
the deadline's gonna
stretch even further.
Right?
So I think this is one of
those things where like having
a little bit of a framework,
even just a quick mental model
where you can jump through
that and say like, is it time?
Is this, is this a 6% moment?
And the answer's
94% of the time?
No.
But I think you do need
some way of measuring it.
I think you'll appreciate
this as a child of the
eighties, every single
time this moment comes up.
I revert back to Arnold
Schwartzenegger in Terminator.
There's this scene where
he, I, you know, you
know what it is, right?
And, and people are listening.
They, they've gotta
know what this is.
Uh, yep.
Where Schwartzenegger, the
Terminator is sitting like
in this derelict department
and like, you know, the, the
landlord knocks on the door and
he's like, are you coming home?
And the one of the best
movie moments, he turns his
head and they cut to what
the Terminator is seeing.
Right?
Yes.
So they cut the terminator,
it's like a terminal
view, and it shows like
six possible responses.
Uhhuh, right?
And it's like, yes, no,
please come back later.
And then the bottom one
is, fuck you, asshole.
Right?
He just cursors
down to that one.
Right.
And goes with that.
Yeah.
And I always think
about that moment.
Yeah.
When this kind of situation
comes and like all of a sudden
my terminal pops up and I
have five possible responses.
Right.
I never get to choose.
Fuck you asshole, by the way.
Yeah.
Look, I think when you're
Arnold Schwartzenegger as the
Terminator, I think you probably
shift to at least like a 64.
You can be honest, pretty much
most of the time, not all the
time, but most of the time,
am I returning to an
Android from the future?
Uh, my, my decision
tree will be different.
But I always think about
that moment, whereas like,
okay, all of these choose
your own adventure answers
to what just happened.
All have like, you know,
consequences attached to 'em.
And I just basically do a
sort and I say, which one
has the, the, uh, least
likely consequence or the
most beneficial consequence?
And, and again, and by the
way, like there's, uh, actually
no, we have some folks that
are actual therapists in our
audience and they'll say,
will you do not wanna do that?
You're sacrificing a lot of
your own wellbeing, you know,
for the situation, et cetera.
Welcome to the
founder Life, baby.
Yeah.
Like, I'm kind of willing
to, but it's been interesting
because when I look back at,
you know, just a million moments
where I've had that decision
tree, I don't look back at a
moment or very rarely where
I say to myself, I wish I had
been more, more authentic.
Now when I say that,
it's because I was
probably too authentic
and it bit me in the ass.
Right.
Like in other words, like
I almost go the other.
If you have authentic on
one side where you just say
whatever the fuck you want,
you have diplomatic on the
other where you just give
like the most party line
answer you possibly could.
Yeah.
I wish in more of those
occasions I had gone more
diplomatic than authentic,
even with that filter, because
again, my default is kind of
to say what's on my mind, you.
Uh, lived with me
for a long time.
Yes.
You know, that, and, and I kind
of wish I'd gone the other way.
And over time I'm starting
to try to like push my,
my dial toward that more
diplomatic side and just be
like, look what I have to say.
Uh, what, what authentic
response I have probably
isn't the right response.
And frankly, no one
wants to hear it.
That's the thing, man.
You start to realize like my,
my inside voice, my inner
voice needs an NDA, right?
Like, it, it, it has to
have some filtration.
It's funny, man, I
get, I get the comment.
I'm sure you get this too,
because we, we do deliver a
lot of hard truths to founders.
Yeah, we do.
And once a week-ish, I
hear somebody say, you
know what I like about you?
Just give it to me straight.
There's no filter,
there's no bullshit.
And inside I'm thinking,
oh, if only you knew, right?
If you turn that filter
off, you, you would hang
up the phone immediately.
Give an unvarnished version
of my opinion there.
I, I definitely
dialed it up a bit.
I put a little grit in the
sand, uh, or a little grit,
more grit on the sandpaper.
But like, that was not as
rough as that could have been.
But because people
don't want it, right?
Yes, they want honest feedback,
but they don't wanna be
punched in the face with it.
They don't wanna be made to
feel badly because of it.
Um, you know, I think somebody
said something along the
lines of once it was draft
in rage, ship in revision.
Right.
Which I thought was hysterical.
Right.
And, and, and it's, it's
perfect for me because
I do have a temper.
Right?
I do, I do emotionally
react to stuff.
Right.
It part of what I like about
me in a lot of ways, like
I'm, because it's, I react.
Emotionally happy as well.
It's not always just
like I'm pissed, right?
I, I'm, I'm a very ragey bear
and so for me, I, I loved the
idea that it's like I don't have
to just shut that emotion down.
Again, I can be
that person, right?
I just can't unfiltered
share that version with the
person who's gonna receive
that communication because
it's not gonna land well.
Right?
Uh, unfiltered for coffee
time, not, not for your
corporate communications.
This happened to me yesterday
and I slipped and I said
what I actually meant.
And it was hilarious how
badly it went that I had
to recover immediately.
Wait, dude, are you
talking about when you said
nice job on that, Ryan?
I'm looking at it right now.
In the Slack channel?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, erase.
I, I was talking to a founder
and we're reviewing a pitch
deck and they said, okay,
so current version I've got,
which they spent a lot of time
on, how would you rank it?
And I said, well, on a scale
of one to 10, I would give
it a solid negative 10.
Oh, now, now, now that's
actually how I felt.
Right?
You were like, option five.
Fuck you asshole.
Exactly.
Fuck you asshole.
Soon as I said it,
and I was kidding, but
I was honest, right?
Like I like, and I was
laughing when I said it.
And were they No silent?
Yeah.
Just went like dead silent.
They did not, I was
like, whoa, shit.
And I said, I'm kidding.
It's probably a five.
And that, that also wasn't
like, that was me recovering.
And that also wasn't the
number they were looking for
the, the, and I thought it
was like a seven or eight
and I had to spend all the
rest of the time trying to
explain why I was giving
the, the grade that it did.
But it was funny that like I
mistakenly was honest, right?
Yeah.
Like that founder, there
was nothing gained by me
saying it's a negative 10.
And, and again, I was kidding
when I said it, but it, it
was a negative 10, right?
It was a negative 10.
As in you have to rewrite
the whole goddamn thing.
Yeah.
There's a lot.
There's nothing
salvageable here.
Now, I would normally never
say that to a founder, but I'm
going back to what you said a
moment ago, which is the founder
wants me to be, you know, uh,
uh, the hard truth get, get.
They don't, no one wants that.
Right.
They wanna believe they're
getting the hard truth,
but they don't actually
want the hard truth.
It's you when you
walk into an authentic
Thai restaurant and you're
like, I like spicy food.
And they're like, do you really?
And you're like, I think I do.
You're like your version of
spicy food, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So net of it, uh,
I had to recover.
But again, this is, this
is something small and I, I
always say that if I had to.
Say everything that was on
my mind, I took that, you
know, five option filter off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I could just say exactly
how I felt about things.
I would have no friends
by the end of the week.
That's not because I'm
repressing these things, or I
have all these evil thoughts.
Yeah, yeah.
It's because there is a certain
diplomacy with delivering
any kind of message, right.
When someone says,
how do I look?
And you say, you look like hell,
you've actually looked better.
You've gained a lot
of weight, blah, blah.
Like no one wants to hear.
That is Yes, that's
absolutely true.
No one wants to hear that.
Right.
That's why I don't
comment on Facebook.
Yeah.
I mean, what they wanna
hear is that's, that's
a great shirt, right?
Yeah.
Or whatever, right?
Like no one says, how do I
look as in please berate me.
Yeah.
That's, I dunno where
that question comes from.
Anyway.
I think where, where this
gets interesting is we all
have to look inward, right?
We all have to look inward
and, and say, how much of my
authenticity is a benefit?
And I, I think what you're
gonna find, Ryan, is not that
much, I can't think of a lot of
cases where like, I wish that
person when they said something
shitty was even more shitty.
You know what I mean?
Like, I,
I don't see it.
Yeah.
I, I don't either.
Generally speaking, I think
there's a, there's another
little litmus test that I do
around, like the channel I'm
using to communicate, right?
Yeah.
Is it hot, warm, or cold?
Oh, good point.
Yeah.
So hot, like one-on-one.
We're live, we're we're sitting
in the same room or we're on
a video call or something.
This is where I can, I
can use it, you know,
some, a bit of honesty.
For, for emotion or,
or for correction.
Uh, if it's needed, if
it's a warm environment.
Right.
Like team meet.
Like our, our, our
biweekly meeting.
I think a little honesty
there for direction
and for context, right?
I think people always love a
little bit of the, you know,
when, when we're making big,
sweeping product changes and
we give a little bit of the
why behind that, it makes
people feel like, okay, there,
there's some reason for this.
Like there's a little bit of
more and more audience, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then if it's cold
like Slack or email.
There's gonna be very little
of that honesty because Yep.
Without the context, without
that ability to kind of see
what's behind, like short of,
you know, stacking up some
emojis so that people can
be very clear exactly what
I'm trying to convey there.
That can just be
so misconstrued.
And so I think that
for me, I'm always.
Really thinking about like,
based on the medium where I'm
gonna share this information,
how open to misinterpretation?
Is it the story
you were telling?
How quickly can
I course correct?
Right.
How, how can I recover because
find if I, you know, etch
this into a plaque and then
staple it to the front of
our, our business, right?
Like our, our motto.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, money first customers
will always be there.
Right.
That's probably not
a great thing because
I can't change that.
I don't get to choose
how people react to it.
Right.
But if I say something
in a meeting and I can
see someone's reaction.
And I can go, Ooh, that
didn't land quite like,
like I thought it would.
A little too honest.
We've got some
ability to to recover.
So I think that's an
important consideration too.
I think the real lesson
for a lot of folks, and I
think what you and I have
learned over time, over
decades of kind of trying
to practice this diplomacy,
is our job isn't to be the
real self, authentic self.
That's actually not our job.
No.
That may be who we wanna be
as people, but our job has a
consequence, a consequence that
we have to take very seriously.
And that consequence is what
we're managing toward when we
show up and, and we're that
that person that is the CEO, the
founder, the leader or whatever
that person has to have.
Consequence in mind.
And, and with that outcome
in mind, every single thing
out of your mouth should be
what will maximize outcome?
What will maximize outcome?
My authenticity, my true self
comes second to consequence,
comes second to outcome.
And at which point you realize
that outcome is actually what,
what you're moving toward,
then that real self probably
applies 6% of the time.
And that's just fine so long
as the outcome is there.
Who you are matches perfectly.
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone.
You don't have to, and honestly,
you shouldn't because instead,
you can learn directly from
peers who've been in your shoes.
Connect with bootstrap
founders and the advisors
helping them win in the
startups.com community.
Check out the startups.com
community@www.startups.com
to see if it's for you.
Could be just the
thing you need.
I hope to see you inside.