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In our maiden voyage into the waters of Dawson's Creek, we're talking about season 1 episode 1: Pilot, also known simply as Dawson's Creek or Emotions in Motion. Don't miss the boat!
A Dawson's Creek Rewatch Podcast for those who missed the boat!
Freaks & Creeks: a Dawson's Creek Podcast dives into each episode of the hit '90s TV show Dawson's Creek with a fresh perspective. Join Cody, Stella, Mal and James as they set sail through turbulent waters determined to understand this iconic teen drama’s place in the modern television zeitgeist.
S1E1
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[00:00:00] Welcome to freaks and creeks. Dawson's Creek podcast where millennials who missed the boat twenty-five years ago, take the dive or the first time I am Cody and I'm joined with three friends, some closer than the others. And I would love for them to introduce themselves as well. I will go ahead and go.
Next. My name is James Ramey and I am a virile young boy on the verge of manhood. And I'm very excited to be here today.
Hello everyone. My name is Mallory Freed, and this is the first time I've seen [00:01:00] Dawson's Creek and I'm ready for some drama.
Hi, hello. My name is Stella Baldwin. Um, I have watched bits and pieces of Dawson's Creek before, but don't have a strong memory of what is about to go down. I'm excited.
Well, let's get into that. Why should we yeah. Get into the pilot and let's get into the pilot. And I think for, as we continue going on listener. Uh, it's going to be something where none of us have seen this and we're just going to be going through episode to episode a very blindly. So I'm sure there are going to be some of you that have watched Dawson's Creek who know what happens in you're going to be extremely frustrated that we can't see some big plot point that will be coming.
And, uh, don't write us about it. No, because, uh, we don't know. We don't. And uh, we want to be as surprised as you were 25 years ago. Yeah. But do shouted at your phone. We won't have to [00:02:00] hear it, but just scream it at your phone. And that will be the way that you can tell us whatever is going to happen in the show.
That's probably the safest way for you to do so. The Netflix synopsis for the first episode is a pair of childhood friends must cope with their emerging sexuality off to a rough start coming in hot. My favorite thing right off the bat, the first scene that we see the first shot is of a Creek. So I'm really happy that we were not lied to.
Yeah. This is giving us exactly what we wanted. Um, and then it does that transition to Dawson's parents' house, or while we're about to see Dawson's parents' house. And, uh, they are the richest people on earth. This is the biggest house I've ever seen. And then we also see a doc, uh, yeah. Who the fuck has a dog in their front yard.
Everyone in this TV show, dude, what the fuck? Is she seriously rowing [00:03:00] today to, and from his house? What is that? I do her home. What? I got to go home tonight, guys. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't want to jump ahead, but there were multiple times in this episode where Katie Holmes is sopping wet. I'm wondering, where does she just come from?
Uh, but yeah, we, so we, uh, the first thing that we see is Dawson and Joey hanging out in Dawson's very gross teen boy room, and they're watching E T a and then they, uh, shit all over the movie, Gandhi for winning best picture over I aye. All right. I'm not a Spielberg head. You know, I, it actually, it took me a little bit to realize that this was ITI.
I actually, one of my first notes was water. They watching, cause I couldn't Mack in me, but I hope that they toned down the Spielberg, like fandom a little bit over the course of the show. I'm not expecting them to, but [00:04:00] Jesus Christ as when we get to the later scene about his whole room being dedicated, a shrine to Spielberg, it's like, okay, Yeah, well, I mean, we're going to touch on this a lot to this episode because the only development that we've really get of Dawson throughout this pilot episode is that he loves movies.
And the Spielberg stuff is really interesting to me because I'm a little movie fan and I was, I guess, kind of like Dawson as a teenager, I was really into movies and I had movie posters all over my wall, but to focus on someone like Steven Spielberg, who's a great filmmaker, but all of his movies are, uh, meant to be crowd pleasers.
There's nothing challenging about them and it's not literary at all, which there's nothing wrong with that. I love Jurassic park and I love ITI, but it's so funny that someone that wants to be a filmmaker one day is like, I want to make extremely accessible movies that are really broad for the entire world to enjoy and make that his entire personality.
I [00:05:00] find that very weird. I mean, it does feel relatable though, because I know when I was in high school, I would make my fandom, my personality. Right. The one thing I loved was everything about me. And if you didn't like it, well, then I don't think we can be friends. And I feel that very much from Dawson, except I feel like he's also a little bit more accepting and welcoming than I was at least in that time.
Yeah. I mean, Stella, when you were into beanie babies, That that enraptured your entire personality. Absolutely. I definitely brought Bucky the beaver to school. I'm like every day. And that still happens today. Yeah. The whole thing that sets this entire show up, this is what I imagine what Dawson's Creek will be for the rest of its entire series run as the will.
They won't, they have Rawson and Joey and this show being about emerging sexualities. They have their first little TIFF about Joey running out the window and he goes, [00:06:00] no, why don't you just sleep over? We do this all the time. We have sleepovers all the time. Why do you have to run away? It would be totally normal for you to sleep over.
And she's extremely offended at the realization or him not realizing that they're 40 years old and they shouldn't be having the childhood sleepovers anymore. And that brings us to my favorite line, which is I have breasts and you have genitalia and there's more of it. Long fingers. Like what the fuck are we out?
Okay. So, I mean, I understand like, you know, the whole rest of the episode is playing up the fact that she is very much into him. Yeah. But good God. Like, well, the L uh, the long fingers thing, that's like the big hands bandies penis thing. Cool. But I always thought it was big hands. Not long fingers. Yeah.
Yeah. You got some slender man, haggis, you know, long fingers, the grip. Big old baseball bat, you know, big old baseball bat. Yeah, sure. The dog. Yeah. [00:07:00] Maybe. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, part of it is just like, okay, they're setting up the story. So of course they have to like present this conflict right away, but it just seems so funny that it's like, okay, we're 15.
All of a sudden we can't, we can't do this anymore. It's like what? Like flip the switch. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm really surprised by why now. Like why? I mean, 15 is a pretty arbitrary age in my mind. I mean, I feel like it would have worked better if they're 13, but I also don't want to see that show. And that seems like a way more significant year, but are, but I guess, I mean, a big deal with this is that there are sophomores and we'll get into how that arbitrary is.
Uh, I don't really understand that, but yeah. Fit like why, why that night? I mean, if they have sleepovers all the time, this conversation should have happened two years ago, three years ago, at least Chelsea said we start high school on Monday. Right. Oh yeah. That's why. Okay. [00:08:00] Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. But when you start high school as sophomores yeah.
Did I th this is their first experience in high school. Everyone's so casual about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to me. It must be like one of those middle school, high school combinations where they all go to the same school. You know what I mean? Like it's world, if you will. Yeah, I don't know.
But I also love the line that she drops here, which is our emerging hormones are destined to alter our relationship. And I'm trying to limit the fallout. I wrote that down too. And she talks to me data from star Trek. She is an Android. I'm pretty sure. Uh, I really liked how she was going to escape and he called her Josephine, which sets her off and don't go all female on me and other dark calling you Josephine and another data line.
And then they tickle fight for what felt like hours. Yeah, dude. And, uh, [00:09:00] Just as quick as why this is suddenly a big deal to go. Okay. It's time for us to go to bed now by and without. And I mean, like, I know no one really sleeps in pajamas, but at least like for television, I want to see that transition, but instead they're still wearing all of their clothes and all the lights are on and they just like pull up the covers and that's it.
So she had her, she had her shoes on. And so did she just quickly under the covers out the window with her shoes? Well, I sleep with my shoes on. You never know what's going to happen. It's true. Also, did you notice that? I mean, I think this is again, uh, I, well, when I was looking up this show, it said that Joey was a tomboy.
I didn't really get much of that in this episode, but she was covered in bruises. Did anyone else notice that I did not. Her legs look like she has never worn a shin guard and she's been playing soccer for 50 years. It's climbing up that ladder. Oh my God. Yeah. That'll be really brutal on your shins. Uh, so yeah, they, they get in bed [00:10:00] and Dawson stares at her, like a pervert, uh, before turning away.
And I mean, yeah, a lot of sexual attention that they're placing immediately, but how long has this, will they won't they been going on? Did they ever express, like when their friendships started, have they just been friends forever? Well, in a later scene, yeah. In a later scene, Graham says that she's been sneaking up into that boy's windows since they were little or something like that.
So it seems like this has always been there. But, uh, about them getting in bed. Did anybody else notice how Dawson is basically like he's manspreading the entire bed and leaving Joey with like a sliver on the very edge. And he's like, I don't know, man. What's why'd you bring this up, dude? Like, all I wanted to do was have a coolest and lumber party that, sorry, the idea that, again, that it's like all of a sudden, like all of a sudden they're sexual, like, so you you're telling me that they have sleepovers all the time and they sleep in the same bed, which is also very weird.
Like [00:11:00] I, okay. Two things, one it's like, so he's never like had a boner when he's like sleeping next to her. What? And then, like, I just, I don't know if you know, every friendship is different, but I don't really remember ever sleeping in the same bed as my friend. Like I remember sleeping in the same room.
Yeah. But like I did share a bed with some of my friends, like up into high school when we would do sleepovers, but they were other men, they were never like people of the other sex or anything like that. And it was almost always just because there were like 15 of us sleeping over at the house and we needed to just sleep somewhere.
Yeah. It was never. Oh, Hey, you want to come over and we'll watch the movies and go to sleep in the same bed? No, it was like I would sleep on the floor or they would I'd sleep on the couch. There was, oh, there's especially in a house that big, there is gotta be a guest bedroom that Joey could be sleep it in listeners.
Write us, tell us about your slumber party story. Where does [00:12:00] she sleep? My slumber party experience was almost always laying on the floor until my anxiety peaks and I started crying and had to call my parents to have them come pick me up. Seriously. Cutting. They were just talking about this last night. I hated slumber parties as a kid.
Like they stress me out so much. Yeah. I love them. Uh, one of my oldest friends, Sam, we, we met in the second grade and I was telling Stella this, that I don't think there was a weekend from second grade until senior year that we weren't having a sleep over at each other's house every weekend. Like every, every time and I were sleeping in the same bed, we weren't sleeping in the same bed.
And when we turned 15 stared at each other and said, I don't think we should do this anymore. Yeah. We got to stay friends, no matter how much body hair we acquire. Okay. Sam. Yeah. There's a lot of the logical conclusions that they're coming to, or really far out as to why they can't. The friends, I feel like it kind of goes back to this being a [00:13:00] semi-autobiographical Kevin Williamson is Dawson because I don't know if people know this, but Kevin Williamson is a gay man.
So maybe he does not. He, he is, he is trying to throw out that, you know, for him, this was not an issue. He had no feelings towards Josephine or at least he, or whoever the equivalent of Joseph Joey is, you know, but that, that is the only thing that kept coming into my head. And before he even knew that he wrote this as Dawson is him, I was like, this has gotta be Kevin putting himself in this role.
So I, I that's, the only thing I can imagine is that w maybe that's a big plot point that we're going to get in season six of Dawson Creek, where he finally realizes that he is a gay man. That would be shocking for the nineties. That would be incredible. I mean, early two thousands is when the show finally ends.
And I mean, I, I, you know, when I was watching this, I actually thought like, oh, the CW is definitely gonna reboot this eventually, or, you know, whatever. So I wouldn't play [00:14:00] Dawson in the modern reboot of Timothy Charlemagne.
Uh, but yeah, I mean, if they, I would love, I mean, yeah, if they rebooted it, I mean, I was thinking about this like, oh, they should make Dawson a queer character. Cause that would make these dynamics way more interesting. Um, and yeah. Oh, in Timothy Shalom. You play good. That'd be pretty good. I know we want to move on to the rest of the episode, but, uh, the most disgusting thing throughout this entire episode, and you'll disagree with me, but you're all wrong is that when Joey is going to sleep on her side, her face is right.
It's facing right to an open bag of Lay's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. Can you imagine breathing that in all night? I noticed the ladies. I did not. I was probably just like, damn, that's a cool ass room, but can you imagine how fucking bad that room smells like? Teenage God he's [00:15:00] in there.
It's his film studio he's in there editing his movies, which are almost certainly just like him partner out with his friends, like making pre-qual jackass movies or other biting other classic horror films as we'll soon. See, well, it's him walking the dog to Katie Curt. So I want to know like how much as a film nerd, you relate to Dawson in like his, his bedroom quote movie studio.
Well, okay. Yeah. As a produced screenwriter. That's, that's my credit, uh, accreditation to make this a normal conversation for me to talk about my relationship to Dawson. Uh, yeah, it was exactly the same. My, my room was disgusting. I masturbated a lot to Katie Kirk and, but I mean, I mean, that's an interesting generational divide, uh, because Dawson is obsessed with Steven Spielberg.
And for me, the [00:16:00] transition was like the gritty nineties movies, like fight club posters at which every other stupid boy had in his room, pulp fiction, whole fiction, American history, X, um, old baby is right. Uh, yeah, and I mean, I had a, like, I thought of everything in terms of movies. And I was like, I want to be a movie guy one day.
Uh, but I wasn't as, or at least, I mean, I don't know. I hope that I wasn't as obnoxious as fucking Dawson is because every conversation he has is about movies. It's, I mean, I don't know. We've lived together now for a year. Stella is, am I as obnoxious? Dawson is about movies. No, there was a pause right there.
That was the longest pause of my life. It's an audio format, but her eyes were darting curiously from side to side and a bead of sweat dropped down her for, yeah. I want to stick my head into a bag of Lay's just to choke myself out. Okay. So intro credits. Yeah. And we finally [00:17:00] get this song. Oh my God. The, when it started, when we were watching it, when Mel and I were watching this together for the first time I was overjoyed and I don't know why, like I, like we said, never seen this show before, but it was just like a special moment to see that.
And it felt so nineties, it just made me feel so warm and fuzzy watching this title seat. I mean, yeah. It's like the nostalgia for something that I didn't care about is crazy. Yeah. It gave not, I don't think I had chills, but I, it made my heart grow three times as big and uh, whatever they did that day to shoot.
Cause they're like, you guys just have fun. Yeah. We're just going to film it all baby. I mean, there's shots of Pacey hanging off of a, a tiny little bridge and the Dawson crew uniforms on it's definitely looks like they got, like, they just opened up a J crew catalog and we're like, yeah, that's it. There we go.
Anything that is khaki and light blue. [00:18:00] I don't think I've ever had as much fun with my friends as they looked like they were having fun with each other, doing nothing, nothing. They were doing nothing kicking saying. Yeah. And Paula Cole, what a song. I mean, it's, I think we're now far away from that time where a song in a piece of media can be just as big as the media as itself.
Like when we talked about Titanic earlier and my heart will go on. I mean, that was on the radio for what felt like a decade and Paula calls. I don't wanna wait for our lives to be over to dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. That was on the radio. That was a huge hit everywhere. Yeah. And she, her other single, what was that?
No idea. I only made that one, but in fact about the song is that it apparently due to licensing, it was replaced when once the show went on streaming, it was replaced by, uh, it was called run, like mad, a song called run, like mad by Jann Arden, which was apparently originally written for Dustin's Creek.
[00:19:00] But Paula Cole song went out in a promo back in the day. Then now they've replaced it back. They somehow got the licensing issue resolved and now it's streaming on the streaming. So the fall was originally written for Dawson's Creek. Apparently the one that they had for a period of time had on the streets.
Yeah. Could you have imagined, I hope she got birthday. I don't know. I hope they got paid for that regardless. I hope they were like, okay, here's your, you know, it's the nineties. So here's your 50 cents and like a burger king crown for making this song. Thank you. Uh, so we enter the world of Dawson's Creek and we, we enter a sequence where a Dawson is shooting a film and it's a fake out because we, uh, I don't know about you guys for a second.
I thought that Joey was actually getting murdered by the creature of the black lagoon, but they all cut. They're making a movie. Dawson is really upset because they didn't get the right take of Pacey and all this stuff. And the first thing that I think is they're trying to make a movie that they [00:20:00] want to put in a film festival in a couple of weeks.
So they're not even done shooting. They need to edit this thing, but why are they making a fucking fan film with a IP that already exists? Yeah. It's like a mix between creature from the black lagoon and the end of Friday, the 13th, like come together in one. And I just really want to know what that movie actually was.
I, I want to see if there's a fan cut somewhere where they like, took that as inspiration and made a student film because what could it possibly be? And if there, if there are sowing the seeds right now that that will be a plot point that we'll later see of James VanDerBeek, uh, taking this film to a festival.
Uh, I am desperate to know how it does, how it's received it. He is so inspired by. You definitely can't tell from that shit. No. Yeah. It looks like trash. Uh, this is also our unbelievably, our introduction to Pacey and, uh, he is a prodo in cell F and the first thing, the first thing we find out is that he is, uh, basically [00:21:00] sexually assaulted Joey, every single take that they have laughs it off because she says he grabbed my ass again and he says like you have one.
Okay, cool. So it's all right then. Yeah. And I don't really know. I mean, yeah. Then this was 24 years ago when this came out, but I mean, this, this feels more like mad men, 1998. Like why is this being passed off as comedy? Also, my, the idea of who I thought Pacey was going into the show, I thought he was going to be kind of like the Seth Cohen of the OSI, kind of like the lovable schlub that just like couldn't, he was like the nice guy that couldn't get the girl, um, which is like already problematic and, uh, um, major thing for, in cells to be like, I'm the noise code?
What is it? You love me, but this is like, he's a bad guy. He is. Does it do, do you guys think it just didn't age? Well, like in the nineties that he would have been the lovable goof or do you think even in the nineties he was still like a fucking Uber, like he still rubbed off [00:22:00] bad back then fucking goober.
Yeah. I mean, my first impression, the first scene that we see, um, Dawson's parents, um, we see Dawson's mom. PC and Dawson come in. My first impression was, oh, Dawson's mom and Pacey are fuck. Definitely. Yes. There's I mean, yeah. I mean we can weird weird vibes. Yes. Uh, well, before we get there, though, we get introduced to a very important character, Jan.
Yeah. And we get the cue cue, the hot girl music and the slow-mo hair fleet. I thought that that was genuinely like a fake song. I didn't think that that was real. And it wasn't until Mallory showed me, she has been compiling the BoDeans thrill song called Hey, pretty girl. I'm sorry, but that song sucks.
I'm just gonna put it out there that, uh, alternative rock died when Kurt Cobain died. Like every rock song in that kind of genre. Uh, I mean, it just should not [00:23:00] exist after 1994. Yeah. So bad. And I love her dress. That is like shapeless. It has absolutely no. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, so bizarre to me, but she tells us that her grandfather, his aorta has ruptured and sh and he has, and he had a plastic tube inserted yet again with this dialogue that makes no sense.
Nobody talks like this. Why? Like, you're just beating these people and you're telling us about your grandfather's aorta ruptured. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it's kind of that hyper cool stylized dialogue, the snappy dialogue of scream. Uh, but in this universe, like it does not work for me at least. I mean, this is a pilot it's gonna, I hope it gets better, but from the way that they speak, you know, Graham's Gramps, aorta got busted or whatever she says.
I mean the dog, yeah. Walking the dog, uh, weird too stylized. It's it's very odd. But Pacey and Dawson are like barely containing [00:24:00] their massive erections that I'm sure they're having just from this mere sight of a new girl in town clearly. And then we get the transition to Dawson's house, just like Stella was just talking about, and this is one of my favorite sequences ever.
Uh, but we get more evidence that Pacey is a disgusting incell. As, as they're walking up, he tells dos or he asks Dawson, think she's a Virgin. You want to nail her. Y God great. Or men would be nailing her right now. I questioned you, gentlemen, is, is this how teen boys talked? Uh, no. Yeah. This is how school shooters taught.
Never to this extent. I mean, we would talk about girls at school and be like, yeah, she's really cute. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't a very masculine boy. Neither was I, so we might be the wrong demographic to be asking. I certainly knew boys who [00:25:00] talked similar to this, but never this like vulgar. I mean, yeah, it was pretty wild.
It did remind me though, of all of the like Chad bro chills that I know that just puff their chest up and are trying to be like the most manly man. I know, except it's Pacey. And he looks like a, I don't even know. He looks like a little preppy young boy. He does not look like an alpha male. Yeah. And that is weird that they're giving him that characteristic because usually you'd want to give that characteristic to a bully or something bad person.
Yeah. Um, but this is finally where we get, um, Mr. Manmeet and Mrs. Manmeet having sex on a counter, a little coffee table, counter thing, like a Wicker little Ottoman fundamentally. And I did, when you were watching this, did you think, oh, we're going to get a fake out. That was the vibe that I was getting, like they're walking to the house and you hear like, oh yeah.
And I thought that was like, oh, this is a silly, fake out. They're gonna go to the kitchen. And the parents are going to be eating spaghetti or something. But instead I was shocked that they're just actually having [00:26:00] sex right then and there, I didn't, I mean, they have no shame about it either. Yeah. The parents are just like, yeah, sorry.
You should've knocked before you walked in. I mean, that's basically the attitude they have. If I ever walked in on my parents having sex. Uh, I will not say whether or not I did it certainly wasn't like that, you know, it was never just like, yeah, give me a high five Pacey. Definitely nailing her. Like, no, dude, this is not okay.
And with the show being hyper stylized with its dialogue, I'm also wondering if this takes place in a world where this is an alternate reality, where horniness is just the basic like base level. And everyone is just coming up from there because everyone is yeah. Treating it like way too casually. And it grosses me out.
It grosses me out too. Especially as we'll get into later, there's a, there is a definite difference in the male sexuality and the female sexuality that is being shown through this, through this series. But, uh, not to move us along too quick. But I think one of my [00:27:00] favorite things that this show provided me was the transition where we just see Joey rowing her boat to her house.
Like, okay. Yeah. She's so wet. Did she fall in, I mean, this, it almost makes me feel like this was made by people that had no idea, like what life would be like in a small town where people might be able to row a boat to each other's house. And they're just like, yeah, they're always wet all the time.
They're falling into the water. Now I'm going to ask you guys a question. Can any of you tell me what the name of this town is? I do know. Oh, but wait, I think I learn it's like Oriental, but it's called. Well, do you want to, does anybody want to guess before I tell. Is it Creekside very close. It's called Cape side side.
Yes. And the only way we know this is when we later get a shot of the high school and it says Cape side high, but that doesn't, I am. So I would love to know. [00:28:00] I would love to see photos of this town that Kevin Williamson based it off of, because it feels simultaneously like it's supposed to be on the Eastern seaboard, small town, like aquatic village, aquatic village.
And it's also like in the, by you at the same time, I don't understand it. It's very strange. All the houses are kind of like pseudo plantation houses, but then we have the boardwalk main street that looks like small town Eastern. Like, I don't know. It's very, very odd mix of our architectural styles. I love it.
But yeah, I want to know, like, if there is a town somewhere where, um, people are rowing to and from their friend's houses, I just want to know if that's like a real reality. Well, apparently everybody's house is connected by this Creek. They don't have roads. There's only the main yes, of course he owns this Creek apparently, but I love that we get, uh, we get a kind of like the haves and the have-nots, right?
Like Cody mentioned the [00:29:00] Leary's house Dawson's house. It's extravagant. It's beautiful. It's like wonderful. It's immaculately painted. It's gorgeous. And then we get a picture of Joey's house and it's like this. I mean, it actually looks like I would be pretty stoked if I owned that house houses. But at the same time, it's like the paint's kind of peeling and it's an eclectic front yard.
So we're clearly supposed to think like, oh, these people are poor. You know, it's such an interesting way to introduce these characters that we later find out who they are in relation to Joey, but Bodie is just cooking and feeding everyone. And everyone's calling the food orgasmic and what, the way they cook it.
And then Joyce says orgasmic. And the way that her sister says it is so
interesting. Don't like it that they cook all this food orgasmic it's hyper sexualized. This whole world. Everything is so sexually charged, but that is just like, uh, I don't, I didn't, I didn't get it. I also want to know who's the one who [00:30:00] introduced that to them. Like, is it Bessie? The sister, the older sister who says that all the time and Joey picked it up.
Is it something that Joey brought it into the house? No, because the way Joey says it orgasmic and the way your sister says that's orgasmic to her husband, boyfriend, boyfriend, her boyfriend. Yeah, but I do like that. We get our first black character, only eight minutes into the episode. That's pretty progressive for TV shows of the time.
And he isn't. A stereotype, like a stereotype. I mean, we don't get a lot of depth of him, but we don't just get like some throwaway dumb line. He seems to have some importance to the family. Also. He, apparently they replaced them with another actor second episode. And then for the rest of the series. Yeah.
Yeah. Interesting. He's played by a different person in the pilot. Oh, I would love to know when the pilot was shot and air versus when the second episode was shot. Cause I'm sure they shopped. I was trying to find out when it was shot and I could not figure it out, but I will try to figure that out for the next one.
Does anybody know what he was cooking? Because [00:31:00] maybe Mac and cheese
pasta, or maybe it's a stupid to me, it looked like there was a, well, it's clearly a prop department, right? So they've just like glued some shit to a spoon and nobody's actually taking a sip or bite of anything. You'll see, I watched that scene several times and I was like, is there anything on that spoon that they're eating?
Are they actually taking anything, anything into their mouth? The answer is no, but there is a, what looks like a little pasta noodle stuck on the side and some kind of creamy looking sauce. I just, I want to know what it could be. Maybe it is shouted. That's actually not a bad guess. I did just look up where, um, Dawson's Creek takes place and it is in Massachusetts.
So chatter, chatter, batter Creek chowder. Hmm. Yeah. Mo. Okay, well, now we get to go to the video store. Yes. Screenplay video. All right. What was my dream? When I was a kid, I wanted to work in a video rental place so bad. We had a video store in my [00:32:00] hometown on the small, small island that I grew up on. And it was like the coolest thing I could possibly imagine was working behind the counter at one of these stores.
Did anybody work at a video rental place? I worked at blockbuster for two years. Oh, you would have been like my hero? Uh, yeah. I, it was a really fun job. I mean, I worked with a lot of fun people and I had a lot of fun talking about movies all day with customers. I bet. Yeah. But I mean, it was also blockbuster, which was an evil corporation and I worked on commission for hours based on how much candy I sold.
So it was less like I'm talking about art with cool, interesting people and more like, well, you get a Coca Cola with your movie, please. You want some red vines? Yeah. What brain talk about wet brain. That's what Pacey says about Nelly. Nelly, right? Yeah. Nellie, who is asking about where Forrest Gump goes. He goes into the crash or the comedy section.[00:33:00]
I'm a simpleton. I'll be the first to admit it. I have next to no, uh, cinematic taste or ability here. I don't know that I would know the answer about where forest Gump goes. I would, I think I probably would say drunk. It's also kind of a funny movie at times. So I think that she kind of had a point there and I don't think Pacey talk about wet brain.
I mean, that's, um, that's the fucked up shit Macy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it, I mean, yeah, it's a drama, but it's a fair question. And also not, everyone's going to be as knowledgeable as you, so why be an asshole to anyone that asks a question like that? I just love that. How she puts them in place. I love that. I take comfort in knowing your vapor.
Yeah.
But also we get the knowledge that the only reason, well, maybe not the only reason, but her parents own this store. So that's why she's working there. It's not that she loves movies. Pacey is that her dad owns this store. So of course she's going to work there. It's the easiest place for her to get a job.
You'd Dick hole. Yeah. Also for putting him [00:34:00] in his place, I'm like, oh, this is why he's an in incell. He's like, sure women are against me, but we get the sultry jazz music as a, another woman in a shapeless dress style dress. Oh yeah, yeah. Some laundry right there. Yeah. No problem. But I mean, it's like, okay, you're going out in public like that.
Well, I just told you that I worked at blockbuster for two years. Every woman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you cue the soldiery jazz music when we had a button? Yeah. So I wrote down Pacey is a horn dog and wants to burn every girl he sees. Yes. Extremely accurately much. I mean, we kind of skipped over it, but I mean, he was winking at Dawson's mom.
Yes, he was. Yeah. He was like licking his lips and silent. I bet you a hundred dollars right now that they fuck at some point a hundred dollars. Well, and we also, well, we'll get there, I suppose so nevermind. But I agree with you. I feel like they are trying to, well [00:35:00] with this whole, like he's a Viro young boy.
He doesn't say that quite in this scene yet. We'll get there, but he is definitely into older women. Yeah. And well, he's into women in general. It doesn't really matter their age seemingly, but he, I would not be surprised at all about that. He's also weirdly just he's he's uh, I don't know. I really don't like Pacey.
I was hoping to like pace him because I think his name is cool, which is the worst reason to like anybody, but I was like, cool. Pacey. That's like unique, but he's a fucking scumbag that he's all. And this scene just like cements it. Yeah. It is interesting that every scene that he's in is worse than the previous one about his weird sexual desires.
Yeah. Yeah. What was the movie that they're talking about? The graduate that's. Okay. I've never seen that movie. Oh. But, oh, so in that whole time it's like clearly like, oh my God, I'm, I'm going to fuck you now because you're talking about this movie. Is that, I mean, [00:36:00] yeah, that's a major plot point of that movie.
It's an older woman. Do we think she knows what she's doing in this moment? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yes, definitely. I thought so too. Like I definitely was watching this scene. She goes, I'm vintage all the way. You know, that's like, you know, clearly she knows. Yeah. I just was like, I, I didn't know if I was supposed to feel this way or if, if I was reading it wrong, but I'm like, she's clearly flirting with this kid and he's clearly taking it hook, line and sinker.
And I think, you know, as we get to this scene later on, he dresses her down appropriately for it. He perfectly encapsulates what she's doing, but it's just. You. Okay. So let's, let's dissect this. We're going to get to this in a moment here, but you are a teacher in a small town and you go into a video movie store and you go to rent a movie and you see what is clearly a high school student on the other side of the counter.
And you decide to lay it on that thick. Yeah. What the fuck is wrong? Was she playing with fire? What the fuck? Yeah. So it's fucked up. I'm sorry. [00:37:00] Side note. That actress, her name is Leanne Hunley and she was a soap opera actor, actress. She was from Coles from days of our lives and dynasty.
Yeah. She is such a physical actress. Like she, she does so much more acting with her like face and her body and her eyes than she does with the way that she delivers a line, which I think is partly what we're seeing and to talk about right now. She is clearly physically, she's flirting with him so hard and it's all through the way that she is acting in that moment.
Then the things that she's saying, which are also quite heavy, uh, from here we go, this is one of my favorites. Like before we, this world has really been spelled out for us, uh, it transitions to Dawson coming back to his place and the sun is setting and Jen is just sitting at the dock and I'm like, is this his house?
Is she sitting on his dock? Right? Like how long has she been waiting there and all this? I mean, like we later find out that their neighbors, or at least like her grandparents live next to Dawson, but at the, you know, we didn't know that yet. So for me, I was like, wow, she's really coming [00:38:00] in hot. That's great.
She's waiting for him to come home. Yeah. That's pretty, it's pretty. Yeah. So did anyone notice that the Dawson's always running, he's always running, running from, you know, and that, that little like cut he's just like running he's. One of them are going really quickly in some way, shape or form. Um, but I don't think that means what does that mean?
He's he's on the go ways to get where he's going and he's a, but he is not a young boy. He is. He wants to go to the edge of bad. He wants to grow up quickly. Definitely. He's he's ready to go. He's ready to get out of this. Well, let's talk about Dawson's Creek Creek, water, water, life, life flows from start to finish.
We're seeing Dawson and he's running through it. He's a river runs through it. Um, but I, I, okay. So again, to like reaffirm, how zany is that he's making a creature of the black lagoon remake essentially for this [00:39:00] film festival that would never accept this movie. Uh, Jen is like, what do you got there for the movies that he's rented?
And he rented creature of the black lagoon, humanoids from the deep and swamp thing. And he calls it research. But that's not really, he's just making a shittier version of all of those movies, basically just taking notes of each scene so that he can be like, okay, how can I shoot this on my own? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so wild to me that he thinks this way, because it's like, if I was making a, a Spider-Man movie with my friends and someone's like, oh, what do you got there?
It's like research it's Spiderman one. Spider-Man two. And Spider-Man three. I like that. He immediately compares himself to Spielberg in this moment to like, oh, cool. That you're okay. You're that high on yourself? I mean, good for you. Self-confidence is important, but holy shit. Yeah. It's uh, two, two really interesting things that I think are it's going to be a dynamic that they're going to play with a lot is in this scene, we find out that Jen is an atheist, which, Hey, that's cool.
Yeah. And a presentation I wrote down. Hell yeah. [00:40:00] She rejects God. Uh, and then also Dawson says he rejects reality. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, fantasy and reality, this idea of like the fantastical God, uh, which is like cinema it's cinematic, it's big. And then the rejection of it with Jen. Really cool. Um, not to get sidetracked, but where are these relationships going to go though?
Will they won't they with Joey and Dawson or is it going to be Dawson and Jen? Great, great question. I'm going to predict right now that we're going to get a season long romance of Jen and Dawson that is ultimately not going to work out. And I think that. The finale of season one, Joey and Dawson are going to have like a smoochy smooch or, uh, a handholding or something.
I don't think it's going to work out. I feel like ultimately that has to play out over multiple seasons, but that's what I'm seeing right now, because I just don't, I don't know. I feel like what we're going to get from Jen and Dawson is, oh, we're better as friends. I feel like that's always going to be Dawson's [00:41:00] story.
Yeah. That, uh, this is all for me. This entire experience is going to be leading up to why is he crying in that gift? That's to be related to that, I have a question for you guys. So, you know, he says, she asks him why movies. He says he rejects reality. Uh, do you guys think that he grows up to be a Q cultist and storms?
The capital Pacey 100%? I don't know about Dawson. I mean, I like to think that Dawson grows up to become a filmmaker. I really hope that for him. And I hope he makes something a little more complicated than a, another knockoff. Yeah. Yeah. Well then we get the transition as he invites her up to his studio, his studio.
Oh my God. Is it so ladies in this call, did this ever happened with you where as some boy that you were talking to invited you to his studio or something has rehearsal space and then. A bedroom. It is not at all what they [00:42:00] talk about. No, no, I wouldn't. I okay. So I was a musician for a long time. I've been in bands.
I've been, you know, I've recorded albums. I have never been like, Hey, why don't you come over to my rehearsal space or my studio or anything like that? Because one, no, that's just fucking weird. And two it's, I wouldn't ever call like the living room that we practice in my rehearsal space because I would be mortified as we walk in and I turn and look at her and she's like, cool.
Uh, I mean, yeah, he's setting himself up for disaster, but also imagine I'm trying to think of other interests that could create a bedroom, a nickname. Like if you're a baseball player, do you call it the batting cage or a wrestler? Like the octagon? I love that. Yeah. You want to come up to my octagon? Uh, yeah.
This is a disgusting room. We've already talked about [00:43:00] it. The posters, all that stuff. Box office order. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Yeah. I just felt like, kind of like grossed out. I was just like, okay, so you're interested in this girl and you're just going to talk about all these movies, like. Boring boring. Uh, yeah.
Also felt kind of seen in this, because this, this was me as a teenager. I also, uh, this took a really long time for me to figure out, but I, I'm an, I'm a very oblivious person, as you all know. And throughout like my teenage years and even in my twenties, uh, I would, whenever I like wanted to hang out with someone, I would be like, oh, do you want to come over and watch a movie?
And people, I like later it'd be like, yeah, that sounded like you wanted to sleep with people. Like that was like your way to like, get people to come over. And I was just like, God, is that like really how that came off? Because I was genuinely like, yeah, I want to watch movies with all these people. And now I'm suddenly thinking about every [00:44:00] time I've ever invited somebody to come watch a movie, because I too would be like, I don't know how to speak with people.
Um, I don't know how to hold a conversation, but I definitely know how to stare at an object with somebody else in the room with me. So do you want to come over and watch this movie? And then maybe we can have a conversation afterwards then there's at least something to talk about. Yeah, man. But it wasn't like, I didn't, wasn't trying to sleep with these people.
I just wanted to watch a movie. So I maybe feel a little bit seen by Dawson as well. Yeah. Dustin's I dunno. Is he supposed to be cool? I don't know. I feel like he was cool in the nineties. I don't know. I feel like he's not cool now when I'm watching it now, I'm like, this guy sucks, but like not in a bad way.
It's just like, he makes me sad. He reminds me of me and I suck. Yeah. I feel like I'm curious to see. More of like, they're like high school dynamic. Like when other people are like, there's like, quote unquote, like who will popular people and like all in around each other. Yeah. The relationships aren't really set in yet.
And so I don't know [00:45:00] why any of these people hang out with each other and it's like, if you hang out with Dawson, the only thing he's going to talk about is movies. So why does anyone hang out with him? Okay. I have a question. Um, so Dawson says in this moment, I believe that all the mysteries of the universe, all of the answers to life's questions can be found in a Spielberg film.
Now, Cody, you agree with that? I mean, again, like I'll, I want to talk about like how unchallenging and how broad all of Spielberg's movies are. I agree, like there, there's nothing contemplate of about them. Like you're not getting an Inmar Bergman movie, like you're just getting like, oh two hours of really solid entertainment.
That's what I associate with all Steven Spielberg movies. Even as like biggest stinkers, at least you're coming out with it being like, well, it, it, it was fun. I guess that's the only thing I've ever taken away from a Spielberg film is that was enjoyable. I don't go away with like a moral or anything like that.
I don't, I feel like I'm not getting a life lesson or an answer to a question that I've ever had. Like, I would love to know [00:46:00] what movie or what question he had. That he's looking for an answer for when he goes to watch, eat, eat exactly. What is he getting? I mean, again, like those are really beautiful human movies, like on a very basic level, but again, yeah, there's nothing, there's no depth there, but again, I, when I was watching this, I was like, I want to know what docile thinks about like Spielberg's later input.
Cause the last 20 years have been very questionable, like ready player. One is one of the worst movies I've seen. And uh, the BFG, like a lot of bad, like bad movies, again, like entertaining, I guess. And I want to reiterate here I am a simpleton. I don't have tastes. So I'm not saying that like I'm better than people who like Spielberg films.
I actually like Spielberg films. I don't think I've seen one that I don't like, but I just don't think that they are these deep philosophical films that, that Dawson seems to think they are. And I wonder for Kevin Williamson, since he is, this is an autobiographical semi-autobiographical product. [00:47:00] What is the filmmaker?
That, is it Spielberg? Is it, has that, is that his, or is there somebody else then he just found an analog that is Spielberg. I would love to know. Um, but you're right. It probably has to be because I do sense a little bit of like the Spielberg production level in, uh, in, in movies, like screening for example.
Oh my God. As a response to, you know, this actually really interesting conversation because of whatever, you're Kevin Williamson and it's totally someone. I don't know Martin Scorsese or like even any like anyone else that has a little more, um, depth. I don't, I don't know. Death is a sad word. I'm sorry, Steven Spielberg.
I know you're listening, but he's our one listener. At least someone that's a little more artistically challenging. And what if the WB is like, I'm really sorry. Steven Spielberg is tied in with the different studios here or like, you know, we can't, you have to use Steven Spielberg. Like you, you can't use anyone else.
Like we need to promote Steven Spielberg right now. And how shitty that must've been for Kevin. I wanted somebody. Yeah, maybe is it maybe because Steven Spielberg's movies are like [00:48:00] relatable. Like a lot of people have seen Steven Spielberg movies. So that's gotta be part of, well, I mean, I don't know. I think that if it's, if it's not that Kevin Williamson, Kevin Williamson himself is so inspired by Spielberg.
That's gotta be the reason it's somebody that anybody would know. Everybody knows who Spielberg is. Not everybody knows who, I don't know another filmmaker. Um, I have no taste. So Kevin Williamson, I know you're listening. Please write to the show. Tell us please who your favorite filmmaker is then. And now, uh, this also in the scene.
This is, uh, again, we see Joey coming up with the ladder personal ladder. I'm pretty sure. Oh, wait personal, was it in the bushes or she have it on the boat. It's always up on the as it's just on there. Okay. I know if I miss something. Yeah, but she's the only person who uses it clearly because Dawson is not climbing up that ladder though.
That said, if I was a kid, that would be the only way I get into my house. I would go in through that window. I would only climb up that ladder. Yeah. It reminded [00:49:00] me of, uh, Clarissa explains it all on Nickelodeon. I loved that show as a kid and her best friend, Sally would use the ladder to get it. And I, as a kid, I was like, oh, that'd be so cool to have a friend that can do that.
Um, I love, yeah. So Jen's, grandma's screams like, oh yeah, I've got all my hair or whatever. Yeah. And, uh, the shot that we get of the grandma in the house with the sun setting is one of the most haunting images I've ever seen. We see her silhouette and it's just like this dark haunting image. It reminded me of the first time you see an alien in science where it's standing on the barn, uh, roof at night time.
Uh, very scary. But I do love to transitioning to the shot of Joey up the ladder to the right of the window. And then I did think it was a good shot. I liked. Um, and they're both, you know, in between Dawson, he's the one in the middle. Um, this is where we get the introduction to the, the mom cheating plot line back to you.
Yeah. And Joey refers to the dad is the perfect male specimen. Yeah. [00:50:00] A weird white looks to me. He looks like detective Stabler from law and order SVU. Oh, which he is the perfect male specimen. I don't know if I would necessarily go that far. I don't know if I would ever tell a friend that their dad is a perfect male specimen, especially not a friend who we know we have the knowledge that as the viewers that you are interested in, right?
Yes. Very weird. And is this like really opening the door for a plot line for Joey? They have something with Dawson's dad while Pacey has Sonic with Dawson. Is everybody in this town sleeping with the Dawson family? I feel like we're going to get a very incestuous TV. I feel like that's the only thing that we can get right now.
I actually do have a note about that and that'll be at the end. Uh, but yeah, so the soft Bob, which is interesting that he can capture that he's media literate enough to, I mean, this has [00:51:00] confirmed later in the program to be going on, but wow. Okay. I had a question about that because he says that she has soft bees when, or that he know that she, that, that she is really hitting the bees in Bob, but then am I wrong?
She says it normal. She is not like Bob will be soft. Be I okay. Oh no. Okay. Right, right. She has, he says that she has soft bees, but then he illustrates it by really hitting the BS. I'm confused because I thought she said a totally normal, I don't know what a soft B would sound like back to you, Bob. Why does that mean he recorded her and his replay?
Like how weird is that going on in this household? Okay. I'm just going to jump to this point because we're talking about it now. The masturbation joke that finishes this episode is about him screaming. I jerk off to Katie every morning [00:52:00] and his mom is a news person. Yes. So the Oedipal stuff that's already happening, it shows disgusting.
Also not to jump ahead, but her, his dad says that watching his mom on the TV is the best aphrodisiac or something like that. So there is just, I don't want to know how many VHS tapes they have of her broadcasts that he's got locked away in his sex dungeon next to his Dom jeans and stuff like that. But does anybody else think that the co-anchor looks exactly like, is that her identical access?
He has a slightly different hair. Yeah. Wait, do we know what Dawson's last name is Larry. Larry. Larry. So it's not Mr. Meat. I wish it was. So there is that funny line that Pacey has where he says, so if your dad's Mr man-made and your mom's Mrs. Manmeet, does that make you Manmeet? Jr. I will not lie. I laughed out loud and actually I was a good joke.
So I watched this episode several times and I had forgot that that happened. And I remember after that scene [00:53:00] happened to be like, oh, does that make Dawson Manmeet junior? And then when he said that, I was like, what the fuck? He got really scared for a second. Uh, well, when I first met you, you were like, I have to kill everybody.
I'm like, yeah, you're definitely a patient. She's a Virgin.
Yeah. Everyone just wanted to thank you for listening. It really means a lot to us. If you're enjoying the show, consider subscribing. So you never miss an episode for a few have already subscribed. Go ahead and give us a rating. It only takes a few seconds and it can make a huge difference for our show.
So thanks in advance after the show.
All right. So next scene, what do we got or going into Jen's house with the most horrifying shot in the sprint with granddaddy, granddaddy, granddaddy, no bandage after open heart surgery, you know, it's just a big old wet scar out [00:54:00] and she's fondling it. He got it. Yeah. Oh yeah. And Graham's walks in. He's like, what are you doing?
Yes. Um, get some breakfast. Yeah. Um, a couple of things. Uh, grandpa looked 10,000 years old and grandma looks 60. Yeah. So love that dichotomy. Love it. And also I love that the grandma sounds exactly like, uh, Fred Gwynne from pet cemetery like that weird Maine accent. Oh, that's so cool. Mary Beth pale plays her.
She is a classically trained opera singer. Really? Oh, I love that. Yeah. Which I feel like you can see in later scenes with the way she is so expressive. Like she is clearly a stage actress. Drop-off well, okay. Going back. I mean, now that we're here in Jen's Graham Graham's home and, um, she's staying with Graham's.
Why, why, why aren't her [00:55:00] pants, right? Yeah. I feel like we'll get to that in, in later episodes, but we get some hints in the high school scene. So I feel like what happens is that she gets into the wrong crowd and she needs to go live with her grandparents who have, because they're very religious as we're soon about to find out when Graham's asks Nelly, sorry, asks Jen to say grace and Jen decides to admit that she is an atheist to her very religious grand grandmother.
Yeah. Neither got a chance at this point. We she's saying that she's, she's there at their house to help with grant with brand. I have to have surgery, but there's something else. There's gotta be another reason. I love that she says, I don't believe in a religious God grams. I'm an eight. We have to go back to breakfast, the whole breakfast, but the black coffee, black coffee.
Okay. Did any of you drink coffee at 15 black coffee, [00:56:00] right? No. No, I didn't either. It was a punishment actually that I would get when I would try to stay home from school. My dad would sit me down at the dinner table and he would make me drink a cup of black coffee and eat a dry piece of toast. Why?
Because he was rightfully saying that I was just trying to stay home from school because I had stayed up late the night before playing video games or whatever I was doing. So he was basically trying to say, like, if you get up out of bed, uh, you will feel better. I think. And I hated it. And I took me all the way until college that it wasn't until then that I started drinking coffee.
So when I saw her like going for a second cup of coffee, right. And Dell and grams, I don't really eat breakfast though. Just a cup of coffee. Um, I'm wondering if anyone else got the, uh, impression or vibe that maybe this, this, um, conflict between Graham's and gen of religion with [00:57:00] lead gen to becoming religious?
Oh, I hadn't thought of that. I love that. I love that too. And I, I think this is really interesting because I think there's a theme of like maternity versus. That, you know, that kind of like churchy feeling. And, but I'm also thinking this is a few years before nine 11, and that's where the, like the Christianity stuff was really hammered on the United States.
And I feel like at the end, but at the tail end of the nineties, like we were modern baby, like no one was Christian. I mean, yeah. I don't know it's up in the air for me. I feel like it could go either way. I, I did see chunks of Dawson's Creek. And so part of me wonders if that is something that did happen and it's like lodged in my brain of like, oh, this happens.
So if it does happen, then maybe I just remember that. And, um, and sorry for spoiling, I did read something about how Graham's and Jen's relationship grows, but I don't have any other details. So it could [00:58:00] be I'm predicting grandpa dies and grams, you know, is needing some comfort and Jen's like, oh, humor, you grandma.
Let's go to church again. Yeah. And then she's like, oh my God, I can't say God to say penis first. Love that scene. Also, uh, just talking about sets, I love sets and things like that. Uh, the fun fact, everyone reuses sets all the time and I will bet my life that Graham's, uh, kitchen is Diane, uh, from molehill and drives apartment.
And I took screenshots for the listener. You won't be able to see us, but we'll put it on Instagram. Yes, baby. Um, here, you can see how the kitchen is laid out with the door being over here, blah, blah, blah. And it's the exact same thing. Holy, wow. The exact same thing. You just put some shelves up and that was about like three years ago.
So I can see them just reusing those sets. Cause that's what they do all [00:59:00] the time. Um, and the show is extremely Lynchian yes. Yes. Weird. Very weird. Maybe it's a shared universe. I don't know. This is where we get our very first injection of Chumba lumber is tough as the transition after I don't believe in originalism is God Rams.
I'm an atheist. It's basically like needle drop. Right?
I thought that was so funny and it immediately brought me back to being a kid. I told mal and I think, I believe I told all of you this, I bought that album and was so disappointed that the rest of the album was not like tub thumping, no fun fact. A Chubb tumble one was Tom thumping was in the billboard top 100.
Do you know what number? It was two. I'm going to guess two. That was a huge song. It's in the top 10. I'll keep, I'll give you that. I'm going to say 9, 3, 9 Stella wins. It was number [01:00:00] seven, which I actually think is the number of times they play that song. And it's always the same exact, like 20 seconds of that sec of that song.
Oh my God. Yeah. I loved I the, any I'll take any high school montage like introductions. I love the kids playing football, but I was just really loved that kid, uh, falling over himself and throwing all the, oh, that's perfect. Like encapsulation of this, of like high school life. I feel like that also nobody ever had nobody ever did that, but it's somehow in every single high school media that we get, but this is apparently keeps that high.
We get this nice establishing shot of this nineties, high school full of nineties kids doing nineties. Things like just like running around and throwing a Frisbee and throwing a football back and forth. And it says home with the wild cats, but then we get another shot of a slightly different sign for Cape side high.
And the mascot is like a [01:01:00] Pilgrim. And I am confused if that is supposed to be the mascot, the Pilgrim, the wild cat, or if we had two different, like two different shots that we mixed together, they tried two different things here. Um, but then we get a series of, of little slices of life, of high school for these kids.
With Jen meeting Nelly and from the video store at her locker. And this is where we get that being grilled on basically whether or not she parties. And she's basically says like substance free is the way to be, which I feel like is dare propaganda, creeping its way into the show. Kevin Williamson's in the pocket of big dare.
You heard to hear folk? Yeah. As a Michelle Williams fan and as a sober atheist, I went, hell yeah, that's sick. And then she says she needs, and that's when Dawson walks up with like the big, I mean he is basically the heart eyes emoji with legs, walking up to being like, what class are you going to? And she says biology.
And he's like, I was heading right there, [01:02:00] which is a very clever way of saying I don't have that class right now, but I'm more than happy to walk you there to spend some more time with you. And we get our second jumbo, one BQ at that point in time. Was this going into an English lit class? This is going into, this is going into English lit class where Pacey is balancing his textbook on his no, you know what?
He's bouncing on his head. What was manifesto?
Uh, yeah, we find out the sexy graduate lady as his teacher know what are the odds? I'm looking at my camera notes right now. And I wrote, it feels like Pacey is living on another planet.
Oh my God. I love that interaction that he gets where he basically. Does it cool trick to get is that the manifesto office head and then just like stares at her and says Tamra. And she says, I think you should call me Ms. Jacobs from now on or something like that. Like she had this knowing look, she knew what [01:03:00] she was doing.
We get confirmation right then and there, she knew that he was a high school student. She is not shocked at all that she is that he is in her class. I really don't like her. I feel so squeezed out by this. Oh, they're both bad people. 100%. They're both bad people. And again, like, this is where I'm confused.
Who are we supposed to root for? Yeah, I don't, are we supposed to be happy for either of them? Are we supposed to like, or is this like euphoria where every character is so complex? We don't know if they're good. Does Pacey get a redemption arc where he finally is not a disgusting porn dog? Maybe the series ends with him leading the women's March.
I really want there to be some development for Pacey and we do not get any development for Pacey at all in this episode. And I'm assuming for many, many episodes. Yeah, because the next one is just, uh, we just see Jen and Joey having a class together and biology. Yes. Joey is pissed. She cannot [01:04:00] believe that she, that Jen wants to sit next to her.
I kind of. Yeah, it's sad. It's sad. I hope everyone becomes friends. I just want them all to have a moment, uh, that they share in the opening credits. I just want them all to just have a nice day of running around, doing nothing and listening to Paula Cole. I feel like that's going to be our mid season peak.
Yeah. We finally get some redemption between Joe, Joey and Jen and Pacey. I don't know, not being a scumbag. Maybe, maybe they'll have a group sleepover. Ooh. All in the same bed. So next summer we'll be there next week. It Dawson in his, his little ITM, his little moment of glory as he is going into Mr. Gold's classroom.
And there is a nice, subtle nod to Kevin Williamson here. Does it catch it? Yes. Okay. Cody does, there is a poster on the wall behind him as he walks in the, in the room. And it's, I know what you did last summer, which is that his first big box [01:05:00] office hit? No scream was, I thought that came out first. Okay.
Interesting. But I thought that was interesting. Also what high school would have that on the, and did you also notice that this, I mean, okay, this is a film class, that movie schlock, like, it's really fun, but it's totally shy if I wouldn't do it like a film class, that's the poster and be like, oh, this is not for me.
Uh, but this is the second instance of this poster being in this pilot because they, the poster was featured also in the video store and it was just like, we're in the frame. So you couldn't see it. But I, I recognize the top of those ads. Sarah, Michelle Gellar. I can spot that hair. Does anyone here have a film class offered in high school?
No, you did. Yeah. Oh, I wasn't very, I didn't either. I was a very poor student in high school and I, uh, because all I cared about is not doing anything that it revolved around high school. And I took film my senior year and I got student of the quarter and it made me [01:06:00] feel really special. Was it for your shot for shot?
Remake of creature of the black lagoon? It was, I had a lot of research. I grew up, they offered a film class in high school. It was really cool. So the teacher is watching psycho. Yeah. But also weird that he's in that classroom by himself as well. Just watching it. Yeah. Like, have you seen this movie by now?
You fucking to league Mr. Golden search. Yeah. And he's like put out or put off by the fact that Dawson walks in on him while he's watching. Excuse me. Can I help you, sir? Also the fact that this comes back or maybe it already happened, but when Dawson is talking about the quarterback in their high school and he describes him as a transvestite.
Yeah. And that was like, that came in pretty hot, but then it, then it came to psycho and I'm like, oh, like, it's, I mean, it's still offensive, but why, like he only thinks in movies. So he was saying to that quarterback is Norman Bates, I guess so. Yeah. Okay. So this is where he tries to get into the film [01:07:00] class and he tells him it's only for.
Juniors or whatever it is. And he says that the reason he needs to join this class is I hated the way that this line was delivered. But he's like passion, Mr. Gold. my life. It felt like it was ripped out of like a thirties movie and he caps it off with the point is I'm going to be a filmmaker. Both sides are wrong.
That guy is offensive. He should not be a teacher at this high school. He's taking it way too seriously, but also a Dawson not understanding that there's class restrictions. That's how school works. Come on. What do you mean? I can't join the football team. Like also him being like the point is I'm going to be a filmmaker.
How many students can you say? Or how many students can say that? I'm sure every student that is in this class thinks they are going to be a filmmaker, you know, at some level, or at the very least they have a very deep interest in film. Just like you do you turn, you're making a shitty act film. And I don't [01:08:00] think him being a filmmaker, him destined to be a filmmaker.
If he's destined to be a filmmaker, like he thinks it is like, he thinks he is wait until next year. It's not going to change anything for you. Exactly. And again, like, I think, I think learning film is great. Uh, especially if you're interested, but he, I mean, high school film is, uh, he's not gonna learn anything.
Like he already knows everything about psycho. You knew the clearly and, uh, he's pretty good at analysis. So it's like, why, why is he so desperate to take this class that he, he's not, it's just a show off. Exactly. He wants to show off. Jen talks with Joey in the hallway, asking if Jen and Dawson have a thing, which is you.
And this is where we also find out that Joey's father is in prison. Yeah. Marijuana in excess of 10,000 pounds. Uh, that seems really, really extreme. Yeah. It was still with her mom. She died of cancer. [01:09:00] Yeah. And something got her. So I, yeah, I wrote down that it felt like they were just kind of brushing by a lot of pretty heavy.
I think maybe out of that we get that Joey maybe is still processing those things and maybe that's where her life, her attitude comes from. She's grieving those. I think that's a character thing. Yeah. I think she's just not, she doesn't really know how to talk about those things, especially if your only friend to some guys like, wow.
Um, also I wrote down, I can't remember when this happened. Um, someone, was it Pacey that he is like, menstrually diverse? Does that mean I don't. I mean, so there, that is a very good band name, but so they have different
sure. Yeah. Like different menstrual cycles, but like, is that, why is that. I mean, why, what does that mean? You see [01:10:00] hates women. Well, exactly all it is. Anytime that a woman is being, uh, like not anything less than sweet. This is me interpreting what you're saying. Of course, any, any, I think basically any time a woman is being anything less than flirtatious or sweet with Basie, he is saying she is on her period.
And I think he says that later when they go to the movie theater, that's where I know that in my little timeline, but yeah, I mean, we're basically there at this point, the only thing that we have to hit on is that, well, the climax issue thing, the quote from Dawson, I'm having a quote next issue at the lunch hall.
Yeah. And the lunch hall, this is where we get this, which I thought it was actually kind of cute. This is definitely something that my friends and I would do where we're like, we make stories for people around us. I think that that's fun. I thought that was a cute thing to see. I didn't necessarily like the things that they were theorizing about these other people, like the transvestite who is schizophrenia, schizophrenia, transvestite.
I was like, okay. Yeah, this is a, from a different time spirited. It's very mean. It's just like, oh, that guy like murder his students or [01:11:00] whatever. And the other one's a trunk. It's like, that's not really fun. I think we missed an important moment during the walk down the hall. Joey tells Jen that she's protective or Dawson and they kind of have a moment there where, you know, she's kind of being friendly to Jen and being like, here, this is the deal.
This is why I'm. Yeah. He likes, he really likes you. Yeah. Yeah. Don't play with his emotions basically. Yeah. But it's also avail threat at the same time. It's not really. To term, it's not really being like friendly, but it is being friendly. It's the most, it's the closest she's got at this point. Yeah. And then there's the lunch hall.
And then the, then the movie theater, then we get the exterior shot of Dawson wearing a hat backwards, riding a bike up to Joey where he convinces her to join this double date. And she is like, why, why am I doing this? What is the point? Which is probably the shortest scene in the entire show. It's like, remember the second.
Yeah. Yeah. Or the only thing that might have been shorter is when Pacey is balancing the book in his head. Yes, that's true. [01:12:00] It's like a five second ordeal, but yeah, really straight. And it's, it's kind of annoying that they really beat us over the head with the theme of like nothing has to change because every single time Dawson and Joey talk, they have the exact same conversations.
Every time nothing changes here. Let me have the, the conversation with grams and Jen, because Jen's done, wants to go, go out to the movie theater and this is where we get the penis thing. Yeah. The penis conversation. Yeah. I'll go to church with you. If you say the word penis it's purely clinical or medical or whatever in grams is like about to have an aneurysm.
She cannot handle, she can't process that this word exists clearly. Yeah. I mean, it's another thing about modernity versus tradition in this show with hypersexuality. It's like, she can't even admit that sex is real. Yeah. Which is interesting, which is very interesting. But also before this, they were, when she was just trying to like joke around, uh, Jen has another data quote, like you could just hear data saying this, I'm simply trying to [01:13:00] establish a rapport with you.
That's based on humor. Yes. Came a cyborg. But also this extortion idea of like her saying, like, if you say penis, I'll go to church. As someone that grew up in that kind of thing, it would be the same thing. I mean, we were talking about sleepovers earlier. If I had friends that slept over on a Saturday night, my parents were like, that's fine, but they have to go to church with us the next day.
Like constantly, like, we'll give you an inch, but then you have to believe the earth is 6,000 years old. The next day, um, wrote down that I felt like grams looks like the bride of Frankenstein, totally her hair here, her salt and pepper hair kind of like the. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like all these characters are being taken from different things like that.
Like they're all from different universes, like yeah. They're all aliens also. What was the point of the scene with Dawson's dad and the aquatic themed restaurants? Are we supposed to, like, what does that mean? [01:14:00] What does that underwater themed restaurant where all of the employees are wearing scuba gear?
Uh, is it, are we supposed to thing that like Dawson's dad is kind of this, you know, create like creative, like, uh, he see it as like yeah, kind of a. I know. I mean, Stella RA started the bedding system of this program. I will also bet $100 that the series finale takes place in an aquatic. Oh my God. You are so you've, you've nailed it.
If it's not in the aquatic themed restaurant, it's definitely a business reveal for Dawson's dad. Mr. Man meets aquatic theme park, watching her work is the best foreplay. Yes, it is disgusting. And then hair, which is hairdo like a hair helmet. I mean, all night, his hair was basically a hair helmet, but her hair especially was just so full.
Um, I can't, I can't tell if this is a quote arrow down, if sex is so important, why doesn't Spielberg have a sex? Yes. Any of his movies, he says he has never had a sex [01:15:00] scene in any of his movies. Dawson claims that Spielberg, is that true? Uh, well it kind of is like, there are characters that definitely insinuate that something sexual has happened between them, but there is never a sex scene in his movies.
But the answer is because those movies are supposed to be broad. Right. You go to a Spielberg movie with your entire family to enjoy it, and there's never going to be anything that's like slightly controversial. Oh, I would love to see a graphic sex scene in E T yes. I wrote down ITI too. Cause as a joke, I said, clearly he's never seen ETS, but yeah.
I mean, it's just like, okay. Dawson, like you just like everything in your life is just movies. Well, it gets back to Spielberg has the answer to all of life's questions. And if there isn't sex in a Spielberg movie, I don't want it. He works at a video store though. Couldn't he broaden? Like, I don't understand it because if you watched his access to so many, yeah.
If he [01:16:00] watched one movie by a different filmmaker and it has something that's complicated than it does his brain just shut down, he was like, this doesn't make any sense. This isn't Spielberg. Um, sorry, just going back a second. Like in what fucking world does a father say to his son watching her work is the best foreplay.
Like what is going on in this town? I prefer sexualized world. Exactly. That's the only answer there is. God there's gotta be well, I mean, I'm wondering if every episode is like this. If we constantly are getting hit over the head with hyper-sexualization or if it is going to be like an episode by episode, this episode is clearly introducing all of the sexual tension that exists in this world.
I hope that we get less of it as it goes on because it's frankly it's a little bit exhausting, too much tossing to have every scene revolve around sex, introducing sex, somebody problems with having sex. Somebody wants to [01:17:00] have sex. And also problematic views have said yes, like the women's. Are treated as disgusting for wanting to have sex, right?
Like granted, Ms. Jacobs is disgusting for wanting to have sex with a literal child, but there is no, there is no celebration of, uh, Mrs. Leary, Dawson's mom for her sex life. It is celebrating Mr. Mann meats sex wise. There is fan meat is being punished for being with Bob. Exactly that the, the, what we get from this episode is as we will, we're going to get to soon.
But with that final scene, it is wrong for her to be sexually active. It is wrong for her to have sexual desires because what it leads to is infidelity, but for the men, it's totally cool because we can talk about fucking virgins. We can talk about fucking anybody we want. We can talk about fucking our teachers.
We can talk about fucking your mom. It's all right. Why, why do you have a problem with this? And this is a Kevin Williamson product. There has to be a statement there [01:18:00] because he is so self-aware, everything has a purpose. So I really want to know what it is that he's trying to say. Also scream. That's a major plot point too, because, uh, I can't believe I'm spacing on the main character of scream.
You might know her name. Campbell's Campbell's Sydney. Yeah. Sydney. Yeah. Okay. So her mom, uh, I mean, that was like the big thing. And that was what led to the murders. Is her mom, uh, having an affair? Does Kevin Williamson have really traumatic. Like, is that, is it, I mean, sorry, not does he have traumatic sex?
Does he even have trauma around sex? Is what so we're learning about Kevin Williamson because you're right. That is a big issue in all of this grief movies is like this relationship with sex though. I would say that there's also some like power in that because like we get in screen, we get this, like, you know, she only has sex.
Sidney only has sex when she is ready to have sex, she is in control of when she has sex. She's never taken advantage of, but it is all revolving around sex and sexual sexuality. [01:19:00] This show is just filled with so much weird sex. It's also kind of reminds me of like that. Uh, let's put that on a t-shirt where, where are we?
Bessie's painting a bird house Bessie and her bird houses. Well, I just want to talk about character development and how characters are introduced and Bodie. We first see him making the big old pot of fake food and everyone calls it orgasmic. And then we see him again now. And he's reading bone Appetit magazine that seeing Bodhi with our bird announces in bone up.
Yeah, there's a lot of bees. They're soft bees back to you. I just love, I love that for Dawson. His whole thing is movies. Everything has to be related to movies. And once we start getting more of Bodhi, I hope the only thing he talks about is food. And if anyone talks about anything else outside of food, his brain just shuts down.
And I wonder if he like follows up basic. Someone like who's the Steven Spielberg of food. [01:20:00] Rachel, Martha Stewart. Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. So this is the scene where best Joey is about two. So we're all leading up to basically the movie date, right? This is fucking like, I don't know, extortion attempt to get Pacey laid by, uh, an older lady.
And this is where Joey is about to walk out and, uh, and best stops her and puts lipstick on her. Interesting, scary, uncomfortable, Mel, what did you think about this? So you're 15 and your older sister stops you and forces you to put lipstick on. You had an older sister. I didn't. So I do have thoughts about the scene, but we don't have this type of relationship.
She never stopped you in the hall and just applied makeup on you before he left. Now, I wonder what do we know how old the sister is? What the age gap is there looks like. Yeah, it looks like, [01:21:00] I'd say like eight. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, you know, it's like, okay, there is maybe more clearly, there's more of like a motherly kind of by there, but also their mom died.
So she had to take over the, the motherly. Um, I would just like the confusion of on Joey's face when it's like, have you never put chapstick on like the way that she didn't know how to press her lips together? I'm sorry, but like real. Oh, have you just never seen lipstick? Is this like a completely foreign concept for you?
Uh, and speaking of concepts that I don't understand, uh, for those that have worn makeup or wear regularly, do you have to reapply lipstick every 30 minutes? Uh, back then? I mean, it depends. Yes. If you're a lipstick wearer and like lifts, because I think that overtime has gotten better and like lasted longer.
But, but [01:22:00] yeah, that was a thing. Okay. Yeah. That seems so excessive. Yeah. I'm, where's it going that you need to reapply it, that drinking soda cans, kissing, kissing. Definitely lots of kissing going on a lot of soda cans. That's true. Lipstick all over them. Um, this is my favorite moment from Joey in the show and she does it twice here and later is her running full speed to her personal boat or personal vote, but her run.
I don't even, there are no words to describe the full-speed frantic ness. That is, it's like she's getting chased by a serial killer. Yeah. Uh, I've never been that excited to go meet up friends ever, also something that you don't want to do. We know that Joey does not want to do this. She's like, okay, fine.
But she is so excited to go and do it, that [01:23:00] she is sprinting out of her front yard to get there. I find it shocking. I didn't notice the run, but maybe she was just excited to go row her. That's her favorite thing? I heard her running reminds me of like, if like, I don't run ever. But if someone were to ask me to run right now, it's what I would do.
I don't know how to use my limbs. Just like, she doesn't know how to purse her lips. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So now we move on to the street at night as the four kids are walking to the movies and this is where Joey decides to, I guess, assert herself with Jen. And she says, so Jen, are you a Virgin?
Yeah, a lot of very strange interaction. I mean, again, hyper-sexualization right. We're getting back to that. We're reintroducing it. Walking is really intense and really mean-spirited very, mean-spirited. I'm trying to remember. Is there like when Joey, when we see them all outside. [01:24:00] Is there a reaction from the boys when they see Joey with the lipstick on later, there's a moment later.
But in this scene, Jen, Jen, Jen compliments, Joey's lipstick. And then Joey sarcastically tells Jen that she likes her hair color, but it's like, yeah, but it's very sarcastic, like, yeah. Which I initially was like, oh, okay, cool. They're bonding. But then she brings up the virginity. Yes. Yeah. But then Jen is like, I don't know.
I just, I don't, I don't really understand. I do understand it, but I don't understand it. It's so ham handed, like they're, they're fighting feels both simultaneously relatable and also like, just like everything in the show. So contrived, catty, like very necessary. Joey says that she lost her virginity to a trucker named Bubba.
Right. Cool. We all, we all. Yup. And then she says something is, oh [01:25:00] no, that's that's when we're in the movie theater. But we do see, this is a fun little detail that I noticed as they get to the movie theater Dawson like pulls Joey aside and is like, what's going on? Why are you doing this? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And Joey like freaks out. And she throws her, her denim jacket up over her shoulders. And we see her mic pack as the camera goes up and you see the, the whole Realto sign. She goes like this and her mic packs. Also, I feel like this was a costuming mistake that there's something wrong with her denim jacket.
Like throughout this whole episode, there's a scene in Dawson's bedroom or her jacket is like, there's like a crease in it where it's probably stuck on the mic pack also. Yeah. As, I don't know, I thought that was interesting. The entire show it's like Katie Holmes, right. To the show tells it also goes along with her, you know, girl, next door casual.
Like that's, it's totally heard about it. Yeah. So we find out they're going to see waiting for Guffman. Yeah. Also such a [01:26:00] strange choice because all the movies have been kind of related to other things that are in universe so far. So when we got beds yeah. Which is great movie. It's a really funny movie. I bet it's waiting for Guffman paid for feature.
I guess that's the only thing I can think of or that the studios are somehow aligned, but yet we get these really weird, you know, continuation of the caddiness and Stella pointed out, are you a size queen? Have you, have you seen his hands or something like that? Like, well, she's the one that says this after Dawson's fiddling with his hands, trying to touch Jen's hand.
And then I think that's when Joey says, oh yeah. Where you're like, your hand is millimeters away from the other person. And you're like, will I do this? And just that moment is also so terrifying before you've ever touched the other person. So I, I felt very seen in that moment. And then what a fucker Joey is [01:27:00] to blow that whole fan up.
Well, you know, going into the show, that's what my expectation of the show was going to be. I thought it was going to be very innocent, right. In the same way of Gilmore girls, where it's like, like these like little, like hand touchy moments, like those are the big moments instead of people being like, she's a Virgin, like, which is just so far out and not cool.
I don't know. But yeah, this was the highlight of the episode just as these little teenage moments. Cause that's what 15 year olds are doing. Yeah. But yeah, this is the, are you a size queen? Did you notice the long fingers and then Dawson rips her out of the movie and we go back into the lobby. But before that happens, we get paces plan launches into full effect.
He immediately excuses himself from his friends and starts up a full on fucking conversation with Mrs. Ms. Jacobs while the movie is on Tamra. Amira. Yes, yes. Yeah. What a romantic gesture that is. And [01:28:00] just another, like Lynchian thing about the scene is waiting for Guffman is a really funny movie from start to finish and no one is laughing at the theater.
Everyone is dead silent watched. Yeah. And you even see a shot of Christopher guest. So it's like, this is supposed to be funny. No, one's interacting with it the way they should. And. Ms. Jacobs Tamra's date walks up as Pacey is there trying to flirt with her. His name is Benji and he leave Benji alone. What is what this show and weird day for a second.
I thought he was the film sort. The vest is, is he oh, okay. Well, I mean, some kind of, unless his name is Benji gold, but I tried to look at it and I think that they were credited credited as different people. So I'm pretty sure not, but I agree. They look very similar, but I also feel like all of the adults in the show are exactly this could be Dawson's day, right?
Maybe it is. Maybe he's also gotten a fair going on Mr. Manmeet himself, [01:29:00] but the they fight and a Pacey makes Benji throw his popcorn all over the man behind him, who is the only sane person in this movie theater, who was like, Hey, can you guys stop talking? I'm trying to watch this movie that I paid for.
Do you realize that we're all fucking in this theater trying to watch a movie? It was extremely cathartic to see him throw punches for us. I ran it like the Seinfeld scenes when they go to movies. It's like a classic movie scene, like movie theater scene. Yeah. I liked that. I thought that was fun. Well, then we get the, the Joey stop living in the movie speech.
Yeah. And nothing penetrates with you. Dawson
trying to figure out what I'm trying to say in my notes here. What about Dawson? Having a crash is creating a conflict. Slash him living in a movie, creating a good one is creating conflict with Joey. Your notes are like a fever. Are you saying that? What about that? Is him [01:30:00] living in a movie? What about, oh, I agree.
It's a normal thing to have a crush. So living in a movie or having a crush, but I think what she is seeing saying, which is not delivered particularly well in this moment, ties back to what she says in the first part of that argument, which is you're always looking for a conflict in your screenplay. You know, something is old, you're basically just harvesting everything that's happening in life to put into your screenplay because your life is so perfect.
You don't have any conflict of your own, which is a pretty big dig. I mean, she definitely calls him out pretty hard and he's just like, get the fuck out of here, Joey. You're, you're fucking crazy. All right. But it's a hundred percent what he's doing. He doesn't actually live in his own life. As far as we can tell everything about him.
As we've been talking about this entire thing revolves exclusively around movies. It is all about how he can make his hack film about creature of the back black lagoon, [01:31:00] a little bit better, how he can live up to being spiel. And I kind of loved this, this moment where Joey finally like stands up to him in a way and tells him to grow up.
Well, I'm just saying it right now. Joey is my favorite character. Like, absolutely. I love, I love Katie Holmes in this. I thought she was really charismatic and I was with her 100% of the time. She's the most relatable person in the entire film. Okay. Maybe I can't wait till they make a Dawson's Creek movie.
Well, I don't know. I'm conflicted cause I love Jen because she's sober and an atheist. But I think what the problem with the show is is none of the men are likable and all the women, Jen is not super relatable. I think Joey is a lot more relatable. It wasn't relatable because her dialogue makes absolutely no sense.
And she's also in this very strange position. Whereas Joey, I feel like while her dialogue doesn't make sense, we've all been in. Oh yeah, yeah. Completely. Alright. Yeah. That's how I was going to say. I was like, yeah, Joe is more relatable, but who the fuck says stuff like a fuck, like a size queen and um, [01:32:00] long fingers more genitalium like what teenage girl is talking like that.
I wasn't, I mean, yeah, it's just that like super stylistic dialogue. I mean, yeah. Well, you know, going into the show, I thought I was gonna be a little more grounded and realistic, but everyone talks like a, like a super sexy new our character. It feels like it's somewhere between a soap opera and a like a ground.
Sitcom. It's like I got a foot in both, which I actually kind of love about it. It does feel to your point Lynchian in that regard, like Lynchian stuff is always weird as fuck. And I feel like we're getting a little bit of that in this while we're getting a lot of that in this show, except without the weird, like supernatural paranormal kind of stuff that Lynch often features in his stuff.
So I can't wait to find out if we do get something like that. Pacey seems like an alien
hello there, jumping in on the commercial break to [01:33:00] remind you to find us online. We're on social media at freaks and creeks pod, where we post all sorts of great content. So come and join the conversation. We'd love to have you. We also have a website freaks and creeks.com. It has a really sleek web player, which means you can listen from anywhere or share episodes directly with your friends and family.
Thanks for listening and enjoy the rest of the show.
I was just about to say, this goes into the very hard cut to the next sequence, which is just outside Jen's house. And I was very shocked by this that that's the end of what we're getting at the movie theater. Like it ended with a punch. Yeah. They don't really hang around anymore. But, um, the supernatural aspect of the grandmother being in the doorway, watching them, and it's another silhouetted shot terrified of her with like her hands on her hips.
And I mean, there's just, I don't know what it is. There's something very haunting about that [01:34:00] image. And I think she might be a demon, goes through teacher. I don't know. I believe it may be. That is our paranormal entity. Is this show Bob from the black log, this scene. I have so many questions. I T to your point, Cody, I w how did we get from the movie theater to here?
So, so we've got Joey, we've got Dawson, we've got Jen and we've got Pacey. And then all of a sudden, we've just got Dawson as Jen at home. What the fuck happened? Yeah. Did they never question what happens to Pacey? Did they know we do. They returned to that later, but yeah, it's confusing in that moment or they don't, they don't question this.
They're just like, oh, well, he probably made it work. It's also really strange that their conversation here at Jen is apologizing for the bad evening. Repulsive, wait, no Dawson calls the evening. Repulsive,
repulsive. Wow. It's a strong word. I don't understand why [01:35:00] the fault would ever be placed on her. If anything, Pacey ruined the evening. It's all fault for everything. Yeah. So we're, we're there. And Dawson says he has a big old L on his forehead. Jen, Jen tells him at least he has clear skin. And then they're basically like, let's just pretend we kissed because we've got this demonic specter watching over us from the porch and that ends their day.
Um, and now we get to go into the grossest scene. Most disgusting scene, probably the most problematic thing I've seen on television. Yeah. I was shocked. I mean, to say the least, I really thought that we were going to get a moment of redemption for this TV show in this episode where they were, where instead of okay.
Spoil let's let's discuss. So Casey is walking down the boardwalk, we're on the boardwalk of Cape side, which is beautiful. I would love if our TA if, okay, we live in Portland, Oregon, we have a nice waterfront here. We've got a beautiful waterfront park. If our waterfront [01:36:00] looked like this, I would be fucking walking up and down that shit every night.
It was so cool. I would love to be there. But anyway, he's walking there like a fucking, like a Marx brother in a movie. He's got pants, baggy pants. They are basically a dress. I mean, I also really liked the music during this because it totally reminded me of the Charlie brown Christmas time is here music that they use in arrested development for George Michael, whenever he sat in movie.
Yeah. And he's basically just like kicking his heels on the ground moping with his big ass black guy. And who does he run into? Tamra. Why is she there on the boardwalk by herself? Who knows? Who knows? Nobody knows. It's not us. It's just like, really? Let's put this under the microscope. He sad because a woman that is 30 years has senior and he is a child.
Wouldn't kiss him during a movie that he thought she invited him to. That's very, yeah, he's, he's sad because he is rebuffed from an older woman who doesn't want to [01:37:00] statutory rape. I mean, it is illegal publicly, publicly. Yeah. In a very small town. Remember this is a tiny town from everything that we have to judge off of.
Can you imagine being a movie goer in this town of 10 looking over it and say like, Hey, isn't up a new teacher that just came with high school. She with one of her students. So yeah, we, we, we get this beautiful discourse of Pacey calling her a well put together knockout of a woman who is insecure about herself because she's turning 40 and that she enjoys a young boy hitting on her, not just a young boy, but a young Bertel Burnell.
Yeah. Helps, helps her stay feeling attractive. And yet again, he calls himself a young Viro boy on the verge of manhood your aisle. For me, you bet a lot of bigger, you are capable of. Reproducing easily is what [01:38:00] bureau means. Having strength, energy, and a strong sex drive. Nice. And then he says, quote, I'm the best sex.
You'll never have exactly. I wrote that down too. And, but I, okay. So he he's a 15 year old Virgin, Virgin. Yeah. I have a note, so I I've moved past it, but I wrote down, of course he's a Virgin cause he's a school shooter. So I thought that they had confirmed it. But so him saying that he's the best sex that she'll never have in my mind, he's a 15 year old Virgin, uh, who's obsessed with sex.
I feel like if they were to have sex, it would be like, MacGruber, you'd just be humping very quickly. You screaming. I'm a shoot.
I mean, I just want to know in his head why he thinks he's a great lay. Does he have long fingers? Is he tall? Oh God, I just can't assize king baby. So she re she has an wonderful rebuttal here, which [01:39:00] I would, I've been trying. I've been thinking about this since the first time I saw it. She says, you're wrong about one thing, Pacey.
You're not a boy. What the fuck is going on? Why everything? I did not think that's what she was. This is what I was talking about. I thought we were going to get this redemption of the fucking show so far that we were going to finally get a moment that makes sense that we were going to hit some kind of.
Goodness in this world. And she was going to basically have a moralistic statement and say, look, I am a you're right. I am turning 40. I saw you misinterpreted this whole thing, but it is wrong for me to have sex with the, my student. It is wrong for me to have sex with a child. And that's what you are. I could not wrap my mind around it.
And I've been trying to figure out what is it that made Tamra realize, realize that Pacey is not a boy from this. The fact that he is insolent when he gets rebuffed, because that's basically like shitty dude behavior. That's not [01:40:00] anything about being a man. Maybe it's being a man in the nineties, right.
I'm entitled to your body. So why aren't you giving it to me? Oh, you're right. You are man. I was just going to say, this is like her soap opera moment. Like Def, definitely. This is why she was, yeah, they might've might as well have just spread Vaseline on the lens in that moment. And she had a really good, I've made a huge mistake reaction.
Yes. And then she says, sorry. He says, I'll see you in school, Ms. Jacobs, I'll see you in court. Motherfucker. Are you serious?
Everything about this as bad. Everything that the show is promoting is bad. And I, and I say that with media literacy, like this show is not demonizing any of the relationship. She's a bad person. No, she took advantage of it. Yes. She is a horrible person. Honestly, cannot wait to see how this plot line evolves over the rest of the season.
Like I have a bad feeling about it. I feel like they're going to try to make I look okay. I think you're right. But I hope to the God [01:41:00] that I don't believe exists. Thank you, Jen. Atheist party. I hope that we get some kind of some kind of like, uh, running this back moment. Cause otherwise it's basically going to be, she loses her job.
So then the only person that gets punished is yet again, the woman, which I've already put it out. I feel like this show hates women. Yeah. And Casey is going well. Yeah, they do. And they don't. But I feel like at the very least they're shining a light. Yeah. Right. They're shining a light on the difference in treatment of men and women in my interpretation of this show.
Yeah. That's pretty bad, but at least, uh, so let's get into the final sequence of beautiful scene. Uh, we, you walk your dog. So yeah. Dawson's room. He finds Joey hiding in the closet, which I want to note, he made a point. I don't know if this means anything, but earlier when he was talking about the, his movie posters is the two that he keeps inside of [01:42:00] the closet are the movies 1941 in all ways.
Does that mean anything? I don't know anything about those movies, but they were very poorly received. He keeps them there because he likes. Yeah, right. So that's like, so is that Joey is hiding in his car. My interpretation of that is that he, those are his guilty pleasures. He's, he's ashamed that he likes them.
So is this some kind of commentary on Joey's relationship, their relationship? This is his guilty. Joey is his guilty pleasure. He's not supposed to like her, but know, as he grew up with her and you know, she's like a sister to him maybe, but that was my initial reading on that. I was like, okay. So we already know that this is his forbidden zone and where does she go?
His forbidden zone also, what the fuck? She just escapes and then breaks into his house and hides in his closet amongst some dirty there's a ladder. Holly keeps the window open. So the run of the movie, cause they fight happens. Oh, first scene of waiting for Guffman. [01:43:00] Yes. Did her the closet, uh, remind anyone else of the ring when they say I saw her face and then it smashes to that little, she's basically in the same position exactly.
With her face. It's going to be distorted. I was scared. I was scared. Um, also just to like, if we really want to play, uh, armchair psychologist with this, Kevin Williamson is gay and he wrote this character to represent him in his childhood crush as a child. I'm sure Joey in real life was a boy.
Interesting. And the fact that Joey, as a character is being placed in the closet.
I like that catch or not.
I love this line that happens. This exchange between Joey and Dawson here, where she says I, or no, Dawson says, I know I have this incredibly perfect life and I should appreciate it. And I'm sorry. I was an incredibly insensitive, insensitive male. I thought I was above it. Okay. [01:44:00] Again, nobody talks like this.
No. 15 year old boy is calling themselves an incredibly insensitive male. Maybe you heard it from his dad, Mr. Manmeet. I like that. Okay. So you're saying that there is some trouble in paradise. Mr. And Mrs. Manmeet are fighting and Mr. Mandy calls himself an incredibly insensitive male. Where else would you hear that line?
Oh, I guess movies, movies, movies. Of course he's raised by TV. So is there a movie or TV show where somebody calls himself an incredibly insensitive male? And he's just picking this up. I firmly believe that he only speaks in booby club. Wait, let me just go to my research rates. Oh, wow. It says here that all of his dialogue has been taken from Steven Spielberg.
I didn't like this. Joey is feeling apologetic for expressing herself and Dawson is, I mean, he is kind of taking some share of the blame here. So at least it's not like [01:45:00] he's playing into the fact that she's wrong. I dunno it kinda skis. I don't know. I didn't, I felt like it would've been, I mean, I felt it felt relatable.
I've definitely been in that position where I act out based on my emotions. And then I apologize for acting out based on my emotions. I just wished that she owned up to the fact that she was right. Instead of basically like walking it back. He also, in this moment, he tells her how pretty she looked with the lipstick on back to the lipstick, meaning that he didn't notice her before.
But you know, when I saw you at the movie theater with that lipstick on, I remember thinking how pretty you looked. That's so weird. Their relationship is so strange to me. I mean, she is right to be confused if that's what they have. Um, anyways, uh, we get the, the big question I've been teasing all episodes.
Dawson. How many times do you Creek a day? Yes. How often do you walk your dog? Huh? [01:46:00] The way she asks I can't sleep over anymore. How often do you want, why is that the re I mean, I guess I get it right. We're, we're, we're finally confronting this sexual awakening, but at the same time, that just feels so weird that just whatever.
No, no, I like, I remember thinking like, okay, no more, no more spending the night. Like when I, you know, as, at this age with like my guy friends or whatever, but would that never, would I have thought to say that, you know, like, would you. I'm talking to like, just like, I feel like at that age, it's like, you're not really like talking about masturbation, like I might be thinking about.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So after this question cannot be answered. Joey does my favorite run once again and runs to the boat in one of the weirdest, most awkward, [01:47:00] like I, her physical performance in this run, I can't get over it. Uh, and sisters go to her Instagram, we'll post a video, but he screams out Katy curric every morning.
And ha ha she smiles like a Lynchian character flushing crumbs, and Joey's laugh. Cry at that. Her reaction is like a laugh, cry as she rose away.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that. I kind of half expected that to end up with her getting out of the boat, running back into the house and then they have a sleep over now, like sleep over, sleep over. Yeah. But instead, what we see is Joey paddles away and then she, what does she do? She looks over and misses man.
Soft Bob soft, Bob that'd be above bebop. The cliffhanger. Then she looks up at the window and Dawson does not see this. So Joey has some information that [01:48:00] Dawson doesn't have. What is she going to do with this information? Is she going to tell Dawson I'm I'm asking you guys this right now. Is Joey going to tell Dawson what she saw or is she going to hide this information?
She knows that Dawson already suspects it, right? They had this whole scene. So what does Joey do? She's they're best friends. I think Joey is protective over Dawson. So I don't, I feel like she's not going to say something right. Or right away, anything right away. I kind of feel like it's going to wait to tell him, well, this is what's going to happen.
I think they will form a romantic relationship. And then by this point, I think Joey will have told another character about this. And then Dawson is going to hear this from a third party and that's going to disintegrate their relationship. Who do you think she's, she's going to tell Jen, they're going to sure.
I like that read a lot because why else would they have this intense hatred right now? If not to have some kind of redemption where they become, I feel like in order to tell Jen, they're going to something else is going to have to happen for her to tell that to [01:49:00] Jen. Oh yeah. Something post season finale is going to be, oh, okay.
What's going to happen. But his Dawson is going to not, not reciprocate Jen's feelings. Then Joey is going to tell Jen, oh, it's okay. Dawson has issues because he thinks he's he suspects something is going on with his family. So therefore he can't engage in these romantic feelings. That's what is going to happen.
She's going to basically say, I, you know, I know this because I saw them kissing. That's going to be the secret that they have, which is then going to when Joey to Cody's point when Joey and Dawson hookup, Ben, Jen is going to be like, wait, what the fuck? I thought it was because you have these things, these, these hangups, but instead it's actually because Joey and you are secretly trying to get together.
We could have written the show. Sure. All you listeners are snickering. No. What happens? Those giggles in your pockets? Shout them at your phone. Don't [01:50:00] tweet us. We don't have Twitter, but don't tweet us anyway. Don't Instagram us. Don't email us nothing. We want to be gloriously wrong. And when we are wrong, we will admit it.
But I, like I said, I've never been wrong. So you're gonna have to wait for quite a while. Um, I want to know like what the, um, creative decision-making was, um, behind. Like Joey having to row to do one from Dawson's house. Like why not? Like have her ride a bike? Well, yeah. Well, because it's Dawson's Creek.
Exactly. And it's two as Halley Creek. I feel like revolves around. No, I don't know. I feel like Cody nailed it when he free association moment with water equals life. Oh, damn. All of this stuff, right? This water. What does water do? It rushes from a point a to point B, it's always moving it's it's like it brings life.
So what better [01:51:00] way to symbolize that these kids are moving and growing and coming into their own, then having them constantly be using this waterway as their source of transportation. And I also feel like it is this, um, throwback to a, like the golden age of America, right. When you could, you didn't ever lock your doors and there was no such thing as crime and all of this stuff.
Right. Well, what is a better symbolization of that than like kids being able to move about freely and bicycle to your point is like the way that that's normally shown, like, look at stranger, eighties, the kids will always riding around on the bikes, but I feel like the boat thing is more timeless and also out of time, water, emotional tears, it's that, you know, like, I think like water is such, it's such an emotion, like it's, you know, it's hard to, yeah.
I mean, they feature the Creek constantly. It basically opens it. It does open with the Creek. We're constantly going back to the water, the waterway there, shooting the movie [01:52:00] along the water, the boardwalk, everything is happening around this Creek, but they also really don't make a big deal about this Creek.
We don't get any explanation about the Creek, but nothing, nothing ever happens really there, but everything is happening there at the same time. And that's where our episode ends. We get that right. That's, that's what it closes on. We get the roll credits. Do they play, uh, I don't want to wait for our lives to be over again.
Is that the credits music? Um, I feel like we just, well, they should make like an instrumental acoustic version of that. It would be cool. What did you all think about this episode? I mean, I know we've talked about it at length at this point, but I would love if we all gave our on a one to five scale, what did you think?
Five creeks, one Creek. How many creeks?
Uh, you know, it's funny because after the episode finished for the first time I gave it a three and a half out of five, I [01:53:00] thought, you know, this is what I wrote. I said, like, despite all the extreme horniness and David character tropes, I thought it was a sock, a solid pilot, and all the characters have clear goals and intentions and there's enough melodrama to hook an audience.
So I'm excited to see more, but in retro. Thinking about it more. I don't really understand any of the intentions of the characters. No. I mean, they have goals and we're watching those goals happen, but I don't know why any of it's happening other than the fact that everyone's horny. Yeah. So yes and no, I think I would probably knock a half off of that and just give it a three out of five.
I mean, I don't know. It's pretty weird. It's pretty weird show. Yeah. I mean, my initial, my first blush watch, I gave it a five out of five because I was like, this is the best show I've ever seen him. I cannot understand this. I love the nineties nostalgia factor. I really, I basically want them to immediately just binge the entire season right then.
And there I was so hooked. Um, on my second watch, it went down to a three out of five and on my third [01:54:00] watch, it basically stayed right about there. The third watch I did basically just skim through every, like, just clicking through. I didn't actually watch any of the scenes, um, to, to completion. So I feel like it's somewhere between a three and a five.
Um, for me, I'll just go ahead and give it a three out of five because I feel like that's probably more accurate, but it wasn't. I mean, as far as pilots go, like Cody said, I feel like it was pretty solid. A lot of times pilots suck, in my opinion, they, they are too, they're full of exposition, right? We don't actually get a whole lot of development.
We didn't get any development in this episode, but at least I feel like we got some steaks. We got, I feel like I can clearly map out what the season is going to be, which is always fun because then I get to. That I'm right. Cause again, ever been wrong. So I can't wait to find that out, but I did enjoy it.
And like I said, I still really want to watch the rest of this show. So I'll give it a three out of five. Yeah. I'll give it a four. I [01:55:00] think. I mean, it was so chaotic that I want to watch more and I, I just want to know where everyone's character goes and I, yeah, pretty simple. I don't know. I actually, you know, I'm I'm to amend mine, I'm going to give it a two out of five because I cannot stand this weird child sex thing that happens between Ms.
Jacobs and Pacey. It can't, it can't get it out of my head. If that scene didn't exist, I would keep it at a three out of five, but that just really, really, really bothers me. And I can't stop thinking about it whenever I try to, I, I try to watch everything with the context of the time that it came out. I mean, I love a lot of older movies.
You always have to give it to the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I think it's ridiculous when people watch something like gone with the wind and they think like, oh, that's racist. Like, of course it was racist. It came out in 1939, racist America was and still is, but I mean, it's still like, that's what it was like back then.
It was, you know, it was really problematic then, and it's true. Even more [01:56:00] problematic now that we can like view it with the lens that we have. So I just wish listeners, if you watched it back in 1998, please tell us, was this problematic or at the time, were you just like, oh, that's a crazy plot, right? Like, what was your rating back then versus now maybe I'm just a member of the woke police, but I don't know.
I feel like if I watched it back then I probably would've had a problem with it because I just, it feels wrong. It feels wrong. But that said, I do also think that they were playing to the time you are right in the nineties, there was this very much like, yay. Get them boys mentality of like, you know, like you were talking about with bill Maher and his commentary around anything that happens with his, where was that teacher?
When I was a kid that was very much the mentality of, um, of men and viewing women as objects for sex. So you're right. Maybe I shouldn't knock it for that. I can't help but do it, but yeah, but, uh, but yeah, still, uh, what is your ranking on the Creek scale? [01:57:00] Um, well, I'm going to give it a. 10 out of five. Holy shit.
Just kidding. Um, I don't know. I feel indifferent honestly. Like I feel like I'm enticed, I'm excited to see what happens. Um, but I also like, yeah, I feel exhausted. It's exhausting pilot. Yeah. I just feel like scatterbrained, like about like what, uh, what do I care about with these characters? I don't know.
So, but if you had to give it a Creek out of five, if I had to give it a great creating, I would give it a five out of five. Wow. All right. Yeah. We've got a true Dawson's Creek stand over here, ladies and gentlemen, also just throughout this, uh, I've [01:58:00] given Dawson a lot of flack for his love for Steven Spielberg.
And now that I have to think about it against the context of this being a pilot, he is a clean slate and what better way to express that with him being a Spielberg head. And so, of course he thinks that that gives all of life lessons, but I bet he'll grow just as I did as a movie fan where I loved, I thought Jurassic park was a greatest movie of all time when I was like 10 years old, but the older I got, then I was like, I don't know, Jim Jarmusch movies or Wes Anderson, and then that's just a gateway for more complex stuff.
And I'm sure when he grows up and is introduced to more complex ideas in his life, his influences will grow to. Yeah. I really want to know if he's going to start talking about other directors like through the season or if it's just going to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder we'll have to find out, uh, next week on Dawson's Creek.
I guess can't wait till we want to, I don't want to wait. Let's go around the [01:59:00] Creek and I'll give a one or two recommendations that are completely agnostic or atheist to Dawson's Creek. Um, who wants to go first? I'm happy to, but I don't want to go for it. Okay. Um, I recommend feeling, uh, the sunshine on your face off after a lot of rain and that cold cold mornings that happen here in Portland, Oregon.
And I recommend watching Portland, trailblazers basketball because Anthony Simons is an absolute machine. That's what I recommend. He's pretty good. Yep. Anyone else I'll recommend rowing a canoe down the Willamette river, so fun. And um, where do we do in later? And we should definitely record an episode on a canoe.
Totally. And I'm season one of drive to survive. Oh, baby. Do you want to get into that a little bit about what it's about? [02:00:00] It's about formula one racing. Yes. Which you'll have to listen to our Patrion spinoff podcast, which is all about formula one. We actually have to survive. We actually did a mini mini little conversation, pod conversation about this.
When we were testing all this sound equipment. Do you have any recommendations? Um, I'll go ahead. And, uh, I feel like we've, we mentioned euphoria quite a bit, but uh, this season of euphoria has been very incredible, very beautiful. B heavy, good stuff. Teen drama show on HBO. Yeah. Now which I have a side recommendation on that, um, note.
Oh, the mate, the, uh, really good Instagram follow is Donnie Davey. She's the makeup artist. Um, amazing. Oh my God. Yeah. Um, yeah, Donny, Donny, D O [02:01:00] N N I O. She is. Yeah. She is a listener of this show. So make sure to give her plenty of love Jesus. She she's a Creek head because there's a whole story in the makeup in that series.
Yeah. The makeup and that shows incredible. That must be a grateful. Friend of the show. Uh, you can come on the show and do our makeup before our next episode. All right, cutting. Uh, my recommendation is a show called severance. It just started on apple plus, uh, at the time of the recording, only two episodes are available.
The creator is Dan Erickson, who I couldn't find out much information about, but he is from the Pacific Northwest, which is pretty cool. And I think this is his first project. So I'd love to know how that came about. And it's executive produced by Ben Stiller who directed the first few episodes. I don't know if he's going to be the director of more, but it's very sharply directed.
It looks great. Uh, it has this really peculiar vibe. It's caught somewhere between like spike Jones as being John Malcovich and Yorgos slant the most movies like the lobster killing of a sacred deer. [02:02:00] It just has this like really strange vibe. And it's a hypercritical of the nine to five work life balance and positions.
The other half version of themselves that are conscious at work like the separate half being as though they're trapped in like this hell. I mean, if you had to spend your entire life just at work, it would be hell. So I'll take anything that is critical of our trash and of capitalism nightmare that we found ourselves in.
It's really good. Like a scifi thriller really well done. Adam Scott, Scott stars is amazing. Patricia Arquette walking, John Turturro. The music is great. Uh, cool. Well, that's the end of our inaugural episode inaugural. Doesn't that mean we do this once a year, but, uh, I guess we'll see you next year. We're going to do one episode of Dawson's Creek.
It's our pilot episode pilot episode. If you've made it this far. Thank you so much for listening. [02:03:00] This was breaks and creeks, a Dawson's Creek podcast, and we'll see you next time. .