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Candid conversations for the church. Host is Ardin Beech of Windsor District Baptist Church, Sydney, Australia. Co-hosted by Jonathan Hoffman.
Well, welcome everybody to another episode of This Week At Windsor. My name is Jonathan Hoffman, and it's my privilege to be joined by Jonathan Dykes here today. Great to have you. Thanks so much for for doing this. Really appreciate
Jonathan Dykes:it. Great to be here, Jonathan. Thanks for inviting me.
Jonathan Hoffman:Tell us, for those who don't know you, what's your what's your title and what's your role?
Jonathan Dykes:Okay. So I'm the executive director of Katamba Christian Convention. Been in the job now for this year fifteen, I think. Started in 2012. And it's really the role is to run the organization.
Jonathan Dykes:I report to a board, and I'm part of that board. And really, the two main arms of the organization are our events, and that's run by the team here in the office we're in in Burwood. And the other arm is our conference center up in Katoomba, and we have another staff team up in the mountains who are running that. So I'm over all that, and it's more than enough to keep me out of travel.
Jonathan Hoffman:Yeah. How many conventions or conferences would you put on in a year as an organization?
Jonathan Dykes:Look. At the moment, we've got five annual ones, but some of them have repeat weekends. So we're probably running about nine or 10 weekend events across a year.
Jonathan Hoffman:How do you know if a conference has been successful? Like, you guys spent put all these hours in logistics and advertising and getting guest speakers to come. How do you look back and know if that was that was a success?
Jonathan Dykes:I've decided that it's it's a bit like gathering circumstantial evidence for a for a jury, that there's no one piece of evidence necessarily that that carries the case. But when you put it all together, tells you whether you're succeeding or not. So I think over the weekends, you know, at some of our weekends, we have an open microphone time in the final session of the weekend, where we ask the people who were there to come forward and tell us about what God has done in their life, in their heart and mind over the course of the weekend. So we do that at Easter convention. The last couple of years, we've been doing it at each of our kick weekends, which is high schoolers.
Jonathan Dykes:And it's just, that can be very powerful in terms of hearing about what people have been challenged by, rebuked by, encouraged by, you know, sometimes it's just it's minor things that the speakers have said that make an impact. Sometimes it's all three or four talks that a certain speaker has given. So look, that's one thing. I think conversations with people over the weekend as it's unfolding, we obviously get people emailing feedback afterwards as well. And I think just talking to people over the course of a weekend, and that gives us the chance to drill down a little bit on what what they're finding really helpful, perhaps what they're not enjoying.
Jonathan Dykes:But, yeah, I think that's when we put all that together, we we can get ourselves in a position where we think, look, We think that was pretty much on track. Yeah.
Jonathan Hoffman:Our kids go every year. We at WDBC, we this year, we brought, I think, 30 plus kids. It was a great experience at the youth convention. I know you have a bit of history with the youth convention as well because you you you weren't just running it. There was a time in your life you were participant.
Jonathan Hoffman:Is
Jonathan Dykes:that correct? Totally. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Hoffman:Tell us about that.
Jonathan Dykes:Okay. So my parents were volunteers with KCC for, you know, for all of my life that I can remember. And I think I was nine months old or something when I attended my first Easter convention in the mountains. Not that I remember that. By the time I got to middle of high school and into my university years, you know, the ministry had already made an impact on me as a child, because we'd go up there regularly and there would be you know, just just knowing there are all these Christian people from all over the place, different churches altogether to hear the bible preached made a big impact on me as a as a child.
Jonathan Dykes:And then, you know, when I actually started paying attention and going to the meetings in halfway through high school, it started making a the teaching and the preaching made a big impact on me personally. Yeah. I I think that there's still sermons and parts of sermons that I can recall that made quite a profound impact on me. I can still hear the preachers saying what they said. And, you know, even at at Easter convention, I was sharing there was there was a couple of books that I bought in the in the convention bookshop that I read that were just books that the Lord dropped in my lap, I guess, at the time that I needed to read.
Jonathan Dykes:Things like J. R. Packer's A Quest for Godliness. I remember in the early nineties just made, yeah, equally huge impacts on me, and that was all because of the convention ministry. So it's nice to be able to get back to it.
Jonathan Hoffman:It was even cool to see some of the notes that you that you'd held up at one of the conventions. So I I just love that, you know, the front end and the back end there. It's it's awesome. What would you say to somebody who says, look. We can get quality speakers through our phones.
Jonathan Hoffman:Like, I can download a podcast of, you know, Tim Keller or, you know, pick your favorite preacher that you wanna get. I mean, I I even the other day, I was on YouTube, and I saw someone's uploaded lectures from Don Carson who I was thinking to myself, like, I paid a couple grand, I'm sure, for that course just to be able to get that. And now I can go on YouTube and watch it for free. Well, with ads. But but what would you say to somebody who who's, like, questioning the place of conferences?
Jonathan Hoffman:Like, what what's the value of conventions, conferences, things like this for Christians when we have so much content readily available?
Jonathan Dykes:Yeah. Well, there there is a lot now to consume. And, you know, I'm a I'm a consumer in in that point of view. But I I think for conventions, the way we think about it is that to to get yourself there in the first place, you've got to dedicate time and money and energy to do that. And even though that can seem a lot at the time, overall, I think that's a good thing, you know, you've got to make the effort, you've got to set aside other things from a weekend to be there.
Jonathan Dykes:It's going to cost you money for the rego and the accommodation. If you've got kids, that's a whole logistical exercise to get up the mountains, more expense there. But but doing that's a good thing, and then while you're there, you're gathering with people from all different sorts of churches, different denominations, different geographical areas, like across Sydney, but but also into country New South Wales and country interstate areas as well. And they're not people that you would ever get the chance otherwise to meet necessarily. Not necessarily the people that you'd you'd choose to hang around with, I guess.
Jonathan Dykes:But but you're all there united by one major thing, which is your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And and you're there to sit under the preaching of his word and by the power of his holy spirit to listen and to hear. And I think what God does to you when that's happening while you are in the room can be a very powerful experience. And and it often is for a lot of people. And I think that's not something that can actually be replicated online.
Jonathan Dykes:So, look, look, yeah, we livestream our events, and that certainly allows people who can't be there to be there. But there's nothing like being in the room when God's word's being preached that way. And look, the other thing because some people I do get that question. Right? It's a bit of a luxury because, you know, the speakers who come to conventions, they're working on their talks for months.
Jonathan Dykes:They have a long lead time, and that that's a that's a luxury compared to, as you would know, if you're in a local church and you're turning a sermon around week in, out, you that that's a luxury you don't have. But these guys get to they get to prep and they get to talk things through with us, and and we can kick around drafts if they want to. That can really raise it to a to a significant level in terms of what happens in the weekend.
Jonathan Hoffman:I might ask a follow-up on that a bit later, but I wanna pick up on something you said about being in room and the experience of that. I know, like, for our youth, that's a huge draw card because when else are they around so many other kids Oh, yeah. Who are so excited about
Jonathan Dykes:choosing encouraging. Right?
Jonathan Hoffman:Oh, just that you you like, consistently they will consistently, year after year, say that is the highlight of their year in our youth ministry is being there with the other Christians getting to praise Jesus together. Yeah. And our men too. Like, I I could show you I could show you a a chat thread in WhatsApp from men in our church who are trying to decide you know, they're trying to recruit other men to come to base camp this year again. And, and the feedback they get is, look.
Jonathan Hoffman:You've never been anything like it. It's it's like, you know, all these men gathered together to hear about Jesus. But I wanna pivot a little bit and hear hear a bit about you on this podcast. We love to hear how faith in Christ became a real thing for for the Christians that we talk to. And so I'm wondering, yeah, do you mind sharing with us maybe on a personal level, how did the Lord turn your heart?
Jonathan Hoffman:What was that journey to faith like for you personally, especially as someone who, you know, raised with, you know, such strident Christian parents.
Jonathan Dykes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the Lord did put me in a home where both my parents were people of strong Christian convictions and faith. And so I both said to grandparents, growing up in that environment, was obvious to me and my my older sister, just the two of us, that Jesus was a significant part of our lives.
Jonathan Dykes:He was bedrock in a way for our family. Right? It wasn't just sort of this add on that we we incorporated when we had the time, but it was that that was bedrock. I remember one Sunday morning, we were getting ready for church, and I was having breakfast, and I said to my mom, oh and I don't know what prompted me to think this, but I said, look, I'm I'm worried about going to hell. They weren't scaring me.
Jonathan Dykes:Right? But but something had prompted me. I don't know whether it was something I'd heard at Sunday school or whatever. And so I ended up talking to her, but then my dad we knelt down by my bed and, yeah, I kept giving my life to Christ.
Jonathan Hoffman:It's beautiful.
Jonathan Dykes:Yeah. So it's a a precious moment for me. And then I I think from there, you know, I went on the usual teenager journey or what can be the usual teenager journey. Yes. That that might have been the the high point.
Jonathan Dykes:The low point was, you know, in in subsequent years driving home from church with my dad saying, yeah, it's really boring.
Jonathan Hoffman:So it's like, yeah, the highs and lows. Right?
Jonathan Dykes:Yes. So that's that's the way I think that's that's a marker for me. That was when I was about seven or eight years old Yep. Praying with dad. And then I think from there, through primary and high school, I don't think I was an incredibly good witness to my friends.
Jonathan Dykes:For most of my high school years, I was too busy having fun. I was guest preaching at a church where the girl who used to run ISCF in my year was married to one of the assistant pastors, and I was there as a guest speaker. And when she saw me, she came straight down the front row. This is before the service where I was sitting and gave me this massive thump in the arm and said, why did you never come to ISCF?
Jonathan Hoffman:Like, ten years later.
Jonathan Dykes:So, yeah, but look, I think about the time of senior high school and then definitely getting into university, I think the impact Katoomba convention Yeah, I started to take things much more seriously then. And I think I just grew up a little bit too, and sort of took a second look at my parents' lives. And, you know, the church we were in was had a great youth group and it was one of those Baptist churches where basically the same people who came in the morning service also went at night. And there was a great age range between teenagers and people in their eighties. And we had a great group of elderly people there who just took an active interest in our lives as young people.
Jonathan Dykes:So, look, I think all of that the Lord used all of that, brought it together. I'm I'm very grateful for that.
Jonathan Hoffman:It's amazing how often I hear people talk about the very real lived faith of their parents and how important foundational that is.
Jonathan Dykes:Yeah.
Jonathan Hoffman:And youth group and other things are very helpful instrumental as well. Don't get me wrong. Totally. But how many people return to that example of this was credible to me because, you know, I was raised with or who were raising me, they were they were credible in their belief. So thank you for sharing that
Jonathan Dykes:with me.
Jonathan Hoffman:My pleasure. Can you take me through some of the contours of that journey with Jesus? You've said a little bit about high school, a little bit about, you know, wishing you were the person you could be. I heard recently as a friend and I were talking that in evangelical circles, we we love to focus on the beginning. Yeah.
Jonathan Hoffman:Right? The the the the entrance point. Yes. And we love to celebrate the end. Right?
Jonathan Hoffman:When they finish well. And what's often neglected is the long middle the long middle years. Mhmm. I'm not gonna guess your age nor
Jonathan Dykes:attempt to. 57. 57.
Jonathan Hoffman:But assuming you you've been in that middle period with Jesus for some time, I wonder how would you encourage other people who might feel maybe a bit tired, worn out, perhaps distracted as they're in this kind of these middle years of their life and and still trying to journey with Jesus.
Jonathan Dykes:Yes. Because I I think it is easy somewhere in your forties to start feeling a little fatigued. A significant amount of that fatigue just comes from living in the culture that I now do, because it's markedly more hostile to what I hold as true than what it was when I was growing up. I mean, there's plenty of flack at school for being a Christian, right? But it's a totally different level now.
Jonathan Dykes:I enjoy reading sermons and I love listening to good preaching. I do that because even though I do preach myself on occasion, it's that knowledge that you always need to be preached to because someone else is not gonna be as kind to you necessarily as you as you are on the points where you need some firmness. Right? So I think it's just trying to keep fed and and grounded, I guess, in terms of, you know, there has to come a point where this isn't just something you believe about or something that you're a part of or or even just a a creed that you hold dear. Right?
Jonathan Dykes:But you you've got to get to a point where you can say to the lord Jesus, I believe you. And I think that's probably in the last ten years something that has become real for me. And I think that probably coincides with yeah. I've noticed through my fifties, I think about my own mortality a lot more than I ever used to, like twenties, don't think I ever thought about it. That makes you think then, yes, well, is this real?
Jonathan Dykes:Is this true? Is this right? Can I really trust the Bible? Which are all things that I've known since my twenties, but looking back, I knew them in a more academic sense. So I yep.
Jonathan Dykes:Okay. That checks out and on we go. Right? But now you think, well, okay. Do I believe that when I die, Jesus has got me?
Jonathan Dykes:That's really powerful.
Jonathan Hoffman:I want to talk a bit about Spark. Yeah. Spark's a new conference that you guys have come out with. I don't know if that's the best way to put it. But it's it's a a new fairly new conference.
Jonathan Hoffman:Mhmm. And I'm curious about its origin. I'm curious about, you know, early returns because I think last year was the first year you guys
Jonathan Dykes:did it.
Jonathan Hoffman:That's right.
Jonathan Hoffman:But, yeah, tell us bit about Spark, how it came to be, and and how it's going.
Jonathan Dykes:Okay. Yes. Spark, so conference for young adults started last year and kicked off. We had a great event last August with Jackie Hill and Preston Perry. Great speakers and just really colorful colorful people.
Jonathan Dykes:Fantastic. So, yeah, we started with 1,400 people and that was a really encouraging start for us. Look, I think the history of it back in the day when I was going to KYC in high school and uni, it used to be high schoolers and young adults altogether. And then because it got so large, they split off the high schoolers and that became kick. And then they split off the young adults and that stayed KYC, but that ended up folding probably about six or seven years after that change.
Jonathan Dykes:We had another young adult conference that ran for about seven years back in sort of the mid two thousand. And that also got off to a great start, but then petered out. So we have over 7,000 high schoolers coming to kick now across the four weekends. And really looking at that, it just it's not an explosion, it just grows by a couple of 100 every year, right? And that's a lot of young lives.
Jonathan Dykes:Absolutely fantastic to be able to minister and provide for those kids. But of course, when you come to year 12 and it's your last kick, what do you do? And back in my day, KCC had something, you could just keep going, right? And for a lot of years now, hasn't been anything. We've had a gap before people at that age really wanted to go to base camp or one love.
Jonathan Dykes:So the hope for Spark is we're just saying, look, this is for as soon as you're out of high school, right, and out of kick, you step into this. So if you're working or studying at TAFE or uni or you know, in your first couple of jobs, somewhere between 18 and your late twenties, right? This is a conference for you. And it's really to continue that spiritual formation because, you know, what a time of life where God willing, you've got decades in front of you and everything's on offer, right? You could do anything.
Jonathan Dykes:And that's the phase in life where we just want to say to kids, look, God's given you your life. And at this stage, when you're trying to figure out what you're gonna do with it, the first thing you've got to do is ask him what he wants you to do with it. So that that's really the guts of the weekend. And we're just we feel like we're we're just firing it up. I think we're just pouring as much juice into it as we can, and we really wanna see that connection between the high schoolers stepping into Spark take off.
Jonathan Dykes:Because when you think about the combined impact from someone who's in year seven, age 12, by the time they run through Spark in their late twenties, the Lord could do all sorts of fantastic things there. It could be absolutely wonderful. So that's what we're aiming for and praying for.
Jonathan Hoffman:I'm really glad you guys have identified that period and what a wonderful time of life it is because, as you said, so many choices on offer for young people, so many different. And it's one of those things where choices made in our twenties, even our early twenties can really have a lot to say about the kind of decades of willing that we will have afterwards. So Yep. Obviously, the Lord can redeem anything. I'm not trying to be, you know, super ominous there.
Jonathan Hoffman:It's it's it's in his hands. But, yeah, there's something to be said of, you know, knowing what wisdom is.
Jonathan Dykes:Exactly. Wise decisions are good.
Jonathan Hoffman:Yeah. I wanna talk a little bit about, the speakers because you guys have great speakers. I'll never forget the first, KCC event I went to was when I was pastoring out in Berk, and I think it was oxygen conference. And I I was like, what? Look at all these people coming to Australia.
Jonathan Hoffman:And it was such a breath of fresh air. It really kind of revived me, I think, for, you know the world used it to revive me for a couple years in in in ministry as I was trying to get adjusted to the culture and whatnot. But you said that you converse with the speakers about their talks. And and I and I'm curious. Can you take us behind the curtain a little bit?
Jonathan Hoffman:Tell us what what's that process in identifying who to get? How do you you know, does it take a lot to convince them to come here to Australia? Does how how much input do you guys have over the talks? Like, I noticed that, you know, you guys are fairly consistent with doing scriptural talks even if it's topical. Like, it's not a push you guys have to make.
Jonathan Hoffman:Yeah. What goes into bringing somebody over and and what they what we end up hearing, I guess.
Jonathan Dykes:Yeah. Okay. Well, look at it's a bit of a, yeah, a back and forth process. But if I just take a Easter convention as an example, in the last couple of years, we've this year, we did fear not as a theme. We've done conquering worldliness, true grit.
Jonathan Dykes:We try and identify a topic or a theme that we think speaks into a spiritual need at the time. Right? And so when we think about Christian life in our country, what are the points where we really need to be inputting? While that's going on, we're often inviting speakers and look, changes sometimes we know speakers well, and we know what they can do, and some speakers can do just about anything. So we can invite them years out.
Jonathan Dykes:Other times we come up with a theme and think, right, we need another couple of speakers here who just speak right into this from a certain angle. So that that's a bit of to and fro. But then we're really speaking we're we're talking to the speakers then about, okay, how do we how do we come at this topic in a way that's going to be most beneficial for people coming to the convention? So with Easter, you know, we have three speakers generally, two in the morning and one at night. So how are we going to split up a topic like conquering worldliness or fear not fearing between those three speakers, what parts of the Bible do we need to be hearing from and paying attention to?
Jonathan Dykes:So it's in academic terms, it's like where we're doing Bible books, we're getting our systematic theology and our biblical theology and putting all of that in the mix. But really what we're trying to do is come up with a set of ten, eleven, 12 talks for people that at the end of the weekend, can walk away and say, right, I understand that, right? And it's really impacted me in the way that I live. Look, some speakers, they know us and love us. They got really flexible calendars and we can just ping them off an informal email.
Jonathan Dykes:It's just like, yep. I mean, or no, can't, but I could do the next year. We got people, some people who, if they're listening or know who they are, but remain nameless, good friends of mine who, you know, even though we're mates, well, you've got to, my people are gonna talk to his people and then
Jonathan Hoffman:we've gotta get through a torturous process of those people got all yeah. Anyway, and then we end
Jonathan Dykes:up with, oh, yeah. Maybe probably not actually. And then yeah. Look. So I think we're we're always on the lookout.
Jonathan Dykes:So in here, we're always listening to people, new people. We go we go to other conferences when we can. So I was at Keswick last year. We've picked out a few young adult conferences that I'm hoping maybe LT can get to this year or next year. We wanna hear other speakers.
Jonathan Dykes:So new blood in the mix and then maybe some specialists in there. But, yeah, that's that's generally the way it goes.
Jonathan Hoffman:Last one for me. Most people who are listening are either connected to our church or belong to a local church. And for them, the the experience of spiritual formation is is a week to week thing. Mhmm. It's a yes.
Jonathan Hoffman:Some Sunday by Sunday sort of thing. Maybe they're in a small group as well, so maybe twice a week. And if sort of, you know, set up, you know, what, 40 to 45, you know, sermons you might hear in church on a Sunday and, you know, maybe 20 small groups and you set that next to something like a KCC event. Right? They're two very different pictures of spiritual formation.
Jonathan Hoffman:I wanted to ask you, how does KCC's mission, I guess, integrates with Yeah. The the the Christians' experience of the local church? Do they do they integrate at all? Are they not even really connected? They're just sort of two different things.
Jonathan Hoffman:How do they feed into one another? How do they connect? And because I am aware, and here's what's maybe behind my question, a lot of people will look back on conferences and things like that, and they'll have these fond memories, and they'll they'll they'll sort of linger over the close moments they had with the Lord. And then they'll look at their local church and say, I didn't really feel that way coming out of Sunday. I didn't really, you know, or that sermon wasn't, you know, that was like a four, you know.
Jonathan Hoffman:I can say that as a preacher. Yes. But so, yeah, it's kind of you know, we all talk about coming down the mountain. You guys literally are on a
Jonathan Dykes:mountain. Yeah.
Jonathan Hoffman:Yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the relationship of a ministry like Kuthumakrishna Convention and the local church?
Jonathan Dykes:Well, I think they do integrate, and that that can be really special, I think, because Kutumba Christian Convention is is a parachurch ministry. We're not church. Right? And parachurch by definition is that we're we're we're alongside the church to help it to help it in its mission. And, yeah, the ministry began back in 1983 by some brethren people in the mountains.
Jonathan Dykes:I think they were reasonably wealthy people. They had a holiday home up there, and they and during their summer holidays, back in the day, when you go to the mountains to get cooler weather out of Sydney, they wanted some bible. So they started inviting rectors both from here and The UK if they were visiting missionaries, right, just to come into their home every morning on their holiday and open the bible. And it just it just grew. Grew into their playroom, onto their tennis court, then a then a tent onto their property.
Jonathan Dykes:Right? And that is that's not replacing church. That's just feeding bible into the word of God into Christians' lives. And I think the way that we articulate that now, and it's been it's been articulated that for this way for decades. We want people to come to conventions because they are they can be high impact things.
Jonathan Dykes:But the benefit of that is that that it's a refreshment and a growth for you to go back to your local church. Right? And to be to be fired up and refreshed for service. However wonderful and smooth or arduous and difficult that may be. Right?
Jonathan Dykes:Because that's that's local church life. But but this is it's not it's not out to replace, but it's to draw alongside. And and the antiquated language they used to use in the thirties about KCC was it was a it was a handmaiden to the local church. Right? It was it was there to assist and to help the church in its mission.
Jonathan Dykes:And I and that hasn't changed. Right? And so when your guys come to base camp, women come to one love, the teens come to to kick in, the families at Easter. Yeah. And we get critical comments from people about running Easter convention because we're taking people out of church.
Jonathan Dykes:But on my observation, a lot of the times that the people who do come to Easter convention are people who are putting a lot into their local church, and in some instances doing almost everything. Right? They're the ones up the front running the music, and they're running Sunday school, and they're organizing the church socials. And this is this is the time they get fed and refreshed and they can rest. Right?
Jonathan Dykes:Because they're they're going at it flat out the other 50 weekends of the year. And that's that's what the ministry's for. That that's that's what we wanna do for people.
Jonathan Hoffman:And I love that that enables you to have an all encompassing vision for the church with a capital c. Like, to one of my favorite things is the banner that you guys have up at the site at Katoomba Yeah. All one in Christ Jesus. I I do not see that enough, I and think it's the only place I see in Sydney Yeah. Wow.
Jonathan Hoffman:Where that that message comes through. I I seldom hear it, and I'm just so grateful every time I walk in, you know, into the convention center and just just see that banner. And I was like, yes. This is it. This this says we're on the right track.
Jonathan Hoffman:Can you leave us with maybe two or three things we can pray about for you or for the ministry?
Jonathan Dykes:Look. I think I think number one prayer point is we don't wanna be doing conventions just for the sake of it. We we wanna we want them to mean something in the in the lord's hands and his use. Please pray that that he takes the pieces that we put together and and uses them and blesses them for his glory and his holy name's sake and for the sake of his people. That's what it's all about.
Jonathan Dykes:And we need to be kept faithful by him in that. And I think, you know, we want to be transparent. So we're acutely conscious of because our events are large, it's possible to look at us and think we're a big organisation, but we're actually not. I mean, office we're sitting in right now is pretty small and crowded, right? And we've a small team up the mountains.
Jonathan Dykes:We run because people give us their money because they pay registration, they donate, Right? We have a conference center because one of the key families in Katoomba donated 19 acres of land back in 1950. Right? It's so we're stewards of that, and you can pray that we're just kept faithful in that and that the Lord continues to grow and develop and preserve this ministry because it's a hundred and twenty three years now, and we just wanna pass it on for another hundred and twenty three at least. Yeah.
Jonathan Dykes:That'd be awesome.
Jonathan Hoffman:Praise god. Well, thank you, Jonathan. It's been such a privilege to be able to spend this time with you today.
Jonathan Dykes:Likewise.
Jonathan Hoffman:Thanks for joining us. I'm so sad that our cohost Arden Beach couldn't get to be here, but, yeah, we look forward to seeing you up the mountain.
Jonathan Dykes:Thanks, mate.
Jonathan Hoffman:Good to see you.