Reimagining Innovation Breaking Free from Traditional Business Constraints

Show Notes

Anna Iverson, founder of the Sovereign Revenue Trust Entity, talks about her journey from financial law to creating a new way of supporting innovators.
 
We discuss how her platform challenges traditional investment models by prioritising creative intention over pure financial gain, ways innovators can protect their vision and values, and what it takes to build structures that let ideas grow without losing their heart.

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Created and hosted by Sian Murphy with regular co-hosts Michele Yianni Attard, Kay Best, Rachael Bryant and occasionally Adelle Martin.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Adelle Martin

Host

Michele Yianni-Attard

Host

Sian Murphy

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Tune in for fun, inspiration and unfiltered discussions as host Sian Murphy interviews down-to-earth businesswomen sharing ideas, tactics and stories.

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Welcome to the Women in Business Radio Show with Sean Murphy, connecting women in business around the globe. Welcome back into the Women in Business Radio Show studios. So I'm going to welcome my co host, Hello, Hello, you. Can say you are that day, Mikhail Yannia. So, Michael is Oh. She's the CEO of Future Insight, Accountancy, Bookkeeping, property Strategy, all sorts of things. She is also a sponsor and speaker at the Women in Business Big Show. So involved in lots and lots of stuff also around the radio show. And our guest in the studio today is Anna Iverson. Now, Anna is someone who doesn't fit neatly into any box, and that sort of you know that, that really is exactly the point. So after a successful career as a financial lawyer, she's now forging a path in the health and well being sex. So what we're saying is you haven't just sort of shifted careers. You're reshaping everything you do, aren't you everything in your life and the way that you approach everything. Absolutely yes, And I don't like boxes. But the interesting part as well is that I am going full circle because I'm tying back a lot of the things I'm relating what I've been doing in the health and well being sacked back to what. I was doing the financial Isn't it odd? Sometimes happens how we go off and what we think is a completely separate path, offer a tangent, and then suddenly it comes back and you go, oh, Okay, now I see how it all fits together. That's right. I think what we're going to do is start off and with your story. So let's find out sort of where you've come from, what you're doing now, and who you do it with. Goodness me, So how far far back do you want. Me to go? Well, we only the show. We only have an hour for the show. So if you. Go back to where you were born, that's going to take some time, I think. I think if you start with just your your your what your financial career looked like before, before you left, before you before you shifted, what were you doing? Yeah? So I was working in the city as a financial services lawyer, and I guess I had many moments of kind of figuring out or finding out that this is probably not going to be my career forever. And one of the pivotal moments was when I started a family and I really could feel that there was a shift in my kind of internal focus. It doesn't mean that I wanted to devote all my time to just being a mother, but I felt that there was more outside of this, and I need to, you know, find something that keeps me fulfilled in it in a different way. Then we had the financial crisis in two thousand and eight, and again I had this moment where I felt, Yeah, the kind of fun, sort of fast moving doing transactions and all that kind of stuff didn't feel the same anymore, because suddenly a swath of new regulation came in and I was wondering why the regulation looked the way that it didn't really make much sense to me because ultimately wasn't really protecting the end users, and I thought that that's a bit strange. And I just felt that the kind of passion for what I was doing shifted as a result. And then finally, the kind of nail in the coffin of that career trajectory was that both my parents had cancer and I spent a year traveling back and forth to Sweden, where originally come from. Whilst I had two small children at home and I was a career and a career and all that kind of stuff. And I spent that whole year very much in survival mode because I was not home enough with my family. I wasn't, you know, kind of being able to focus on my career and my work, and I was doing my very best to keep my parents, you know, as comfortable as I could do from a distance, and then traveling to see them as often as I could. So what I was really doing during that whole year was not doing any research, not doing any fact finding about cancer or any other horrible metabolic disease that you can imagine, because I felt that the more I learn about something, the worse is going to get. Completely false logic. But I became the ostrich who put you know, I put my head in the sand. And it was only right towards the end of that journey, when my mother was literally on her deathbed that for some obscure reason, I found myself holding a book. And it was a book that opened my mind up to the fact that disease doesn't just come and present itself to you. It's something that evolves because of the things that happen in our life. Okay, And I'm not saying that as some kind of you know, your sentence to cancer. Now, that's not at all what I mean, But I mean that we are actually much more in control of our health and wellbeing than what we perhaps think because we're so used to you know, we go to someone, they say they're an expert, the expert tells us what to do when we do it, whereas the process really should be that we take control of our own health and wellbeing and then we find whatever support experts of different kinds to get us through that journey to better health. And that book was. Just the kind of door opener to me realizing right then and there I really knew. Can you remember what book it was? Yes, it's a book called Entripping Over the Truth by a he's a scientific writer, so journalist, and I think it's called Travis Christofferson. And it didn't really necessarily have to be that book, but it was just. It was at that time, it was that book. It was absolutely and. It just made me realize that all these different diseases that we have, you know, those endless chronic diseases out there, they all have more or less the same foundations. I'm not saying that they all are caused by the same thing, but they're all fixable, and they can be fixable in sometimes in very similar ways. But it's all about taking back your power really and initially I probably also, yeah, I devoured so many books. I have a whole bookshelf at home just with health and you know, health related text. And I really did feel that I needed to gain as much knowledge about this because if I was changing my career, which I knew as soon as I read that book, this is what I need to change my career, then I also needed to gain some kind of expertise. And I was one book just led to the next, and there was no stopping me. And that's when I ditch novels. And I love reading novels, but you know, I haven't really come back to them, to be honest, I haven't had time. So where are you now? That's where am I now? So I. Was here on this show about five six years ago talking about my main project at the time, which was to create a light therapy booth. And my objective has always been to make any kind of healing easy and accessible but also affordable, because it's great if you can offer things to high end individuals, but that doesn't really solve the problems of the world. You know, you want things that. Everyone can afford, access and afford definitely. And my concept that I dreamt up was to have booths that you walk into and then you get red and near in for red light through using the booth. And I designed a prototype for it. So everything from how you access the booth through an app, through to you know, how the panels switched on and switched off, and how they would be serviced and all that. So it was all ready to go, and I was exploring different avenues for how to get these out there because my vision was they should be in every single office. You know, we have lots of office workers and I think that's what we talked about last time, but also in public places. Yeah, so imagine a train station or an airport or all these places were you know, there are people everywhere. It's exhausting and you just want sort of a quick pick me up, a bit of a boost. It's like, you know, imagine a battery charger. You know, we have our cars and we plug them in and then you charge the car. But imagine we do the same to ourselves and we have these booths everywhere. So that was so much fun to work on. But then I was struck by the lockdowns. And in a way, I think it had to happen also when it came to the booth, because at the time, I don't think people the general public were really quite ready for that kind of therapy in that kind of format. But now everyone and well not everyone, but a lot of people have heard of red light therapy. A lot of people have bought masks or little panels or all sorts of different gadgets are out there. And what I was trying, what I could see back then is that there were people in very select communities that we're using these tools. I was talking about biohackers remember last time, and there were you know, these health nodes. Basically they do everything they can to optimize their health and well being in every single way. They would be able to, you know, embrace this immediately because you know that's the world try exactly. Yes, there's no I'm going to call it an intellectual barrier, but there isn't that sort of barrier of understanding and acceptance. Yeah, and even though there are thousands of publications in showing how wonderful this therapy is, it's still not something that's commonly known, and I think the common you know, making something common knowledge is a process, okay, The educational piece really does take the time it needs to take to trickle through. And now we're there, So it's interesting perhaps the timing is starting to get ripe again to get that kind of concept out because I have to say, I love the whole idea of you know, being able to walk into booth and get recharged. Okay, So where are you now with that project? Is that still an ongoing project for you? It's still nice and it will be a nice for the time being, but it will be revived, is the way it is looking right now. But what I've been doing in the meantime is I've been working together with a number of different startup businesses, startup to scale up businesses, all within the health and wellbeing space, and most of them employing some kind of novel technology. And what I've discovered in that process, and also something that I keep on going back to is the tricky bit. For many of these businesses that have something have a real creative okay want you know, want to bring something new out there exactly, they find it difficult when it comes to getting the financial resources in place, and it's not just getting the funding, but it's getting the funding on the terms that work for you. Because if you think about it, when you're going out and seeking investment or it's always the investors who are driving. Are in the driving seat. Yeah they are. And that's no criticism to the to the investors at all, But it's just that. It's the reality, isn't it. Well, it's what we've come to expect. And that's where the thinking out of the box really comes to. It's for because just because we've come to expect something to be a certain way doesn't mean that it necessarily has to be that way. And how about if we reimagined things and thought about how we could all have the same intentions from the very beginning, and then we can perhaps create a win win situation for everyone. Okay, so you're working with startups that are having that have good ideas, and they may well have the technology behind their ideas, but their challenge is getting the funding. How are you working with them? What are you? What are you doing? How are you how are you helping them? Well? I have for many years been the kind of the jack of all trades in these businesses, making sure that you know, the ideas become more than just ideas. You know, so it's creating a business that you know functions and having a product or a service that you know comes to as such a level that you can prove that it actually works and that it has there's a market for it. Yeah, because it's important of course that you know, whenever you have a concept or you know something that you want to bring out there. It could be as you know, something that perhaps you think is the most wonderful thing ever, but if no one else is interested in it, it's not really. So are you helping them? You helping them put, if you like, structure and explanation into what they're offering so that other people can understand it and perhaps start to look at funding opportunities through it. Well, that's what I've done for a very long time. But then if we now trace back to the financial peace and how I come into that. I became very inspired in September last year when I listened to a podcast interesting Enough with the lady over in the States called Barbara Gooth, who I now work with, who has been spending many years on a journey of seeing how we can look at creative financing for creative endeavors and protecting innovators and seeing that the starting point is really innovation, and you know, the innovation is what is really sacred and not you know that, Oh how much is am I going to get out of this? Now? What's my return on investment? On my return on investment? And there's nothing wrong about you know, returner investment of course, you know, why would you invest in something if it's not making money sense? But to turn it around and and to think, okay, so what are we bringing out into the world yep? And how can we make this work? And and and therefore figure out, you know, how can we be true to whatever we're bringing out into the world rather than compromising the concept from the very beginning. So you you brought your your background is as a financial lawyer, legal financial How how is that now feeding in? Because I was quite interested that you thought you were going off in a different route and actually you're sort of not. It's it's come back and you're now you using this I don't know what could we call it? Like base of knowledge and experience and professional qualifications as well. I mean, there is a process that went into this isn't there you would have gone to university and qualified in all of this as a profession. How is that now feeding into all of this? What skills are you bringing in and how does that feel as well? So to be coming to be circling back into that from something that you left. Yeah, No, it's very interesting because I can now once you step out of the box, then you can also observe things with and have a neutral stance, and that means that you can actually pinpoint the issues that are that are quite become quite apparent, because I think if we're in the middle of it, it's very difficult for you to actually see the problems are because you're so wedded to it when you're part of it, and that means that, yeah, you can't really objectively take a look. And I think what you can do when you're on the outside is have that ability to see things that people who are inside can't see. So if I come to you now with an innovative product, how would we work together, what would that look like? What would we be doing? Well, first of all. We have to get to together with the team that we have formed is to create the platform, which is called the Sovereign revenue trust entity, and this platform will allow the innovators to be protected so that we. When you say protective, can you explain how I'm going to make an assumption that it's their design. Yeah? And if you're like, yeah, they're design that's being protected, but I may be wrong. So can you know? Because if you think about lots of different inventions that we've brought out, if you're not careful as the inventor, that invention suddenly becomes something quite different. And especially when you're looking at the inventor capital, then you are looking at timelines. You're looking at the only way in which investors who have got involved can benefit from it is to have a sellout at some point. Yeah, so there's are you know, there's a timeline you're working out. So that means that you're not taking the steps that otherwise would have taken if you'd had if you'd been able to stay in the driving seat and say, Okay, this is this is how I think we should be using the money to get to where we are. Okay, I don't want anyone to take my concept. If you just think about, you know, all the chains we're seeing. Now, that's an easy comparison to make you know, you can talk about any brand if you remember the early days of the brand, you know it's very authentic, or the things are produced in a certain way, or the service is provided in a certain way, and suddenly you have someone come in and say that's a brilliant concept. Let let's make twenty of those, and then then two hundred and then two thousand, and then you know, suddenly it's a worldwide concept and the whole soul is gone. Yeah, so let me put this into words that perhaps I can understand. I just want to make sure that I've got this correct because this is not my area at all, So I want to make sure that I've got the right thing. So, as a creator, an inventor, and innovator, where you've produced something, you could have produced that to solve a particular problem in a particular way, but in actual fact, that could be shifted, bastardized, and suddenly it may well solve that problem. But actually, let's make it broader, Let's take it out to other people and do it in a different way. So it's now being the tool is now being used for something totally different that may not have been in your ethical how you wanted that, how you saw it being used, and how you saw it helping people. It's now just doing something which has gone beyond your Yeah, your your values, your your own personal values and what you wanted to achieve. Exactly right. Okay, So I was thinking in terms of you've invented something like a new vacuum cleaner, you've invented a new tool, and you're protecting the design. But what you're talking about is actually protecting the intention. Absolutely. It is the intention. Of course, the design can come with yes, yes, it's part of it, but it is the foundation of it. It's the intention that you know, because it's that's the cornerstone of the whole creative process. Okay, yeah, Right, do you speak to people that are inneratively inventors, that have patents their items already so that you can take them to that next level when you protect their design? Exactly Okay. Yeah, So it's all about making sure that the creation itself is honored, you know, from the very beginning, and that everyone then is in unison and says okay, well, I want to be on board with this project as the finance party to honor this creation because I can see that it brings something good into this world, okay, because we're so used to it's kind of upside down the whole the world we live in. And it's understandable because it is a zero sum game, you know, the system that we're kind of caught in, and I'm not, you know, it's just how things are, you know, right now. So our driving force is very often that, Okay, I need money to survive. I need money to maintain my lifestyle. And it doesn't matter if you're a millionaire or if you have, yeah, not a single penny in your pocket. The considerations are the same. We're kind of trapped in whatever world we've created for ourselves. But then to turn around and say, okay, well, if we're bringing something good into the world and we're honoring the creative intention of the people who are innovators, and we set it up for success together, yeah, rather than thinking, okay, well, you know, in five years time, we have to you know, be at this point, and it becomes a very rigid structure that's all driven yeah backwards. It is really you know that we're putting the cart before the horse, and we're not allowing the horse to run. Yeah, No, that's fair enough. And I think, you know, if we turn that around, we we we open up, and I think that we will what we will see is that we can create so much more. Really, so you say it's an innovative, so they've done a product, Do you also do ideas and services as well? No, not ideas and service as such, but being that person that they can hold someone's hand and help them guide them through their process, you can do that. Yeah, I suppose in a way. So I don't have products as such, but I'm not sure if this is relevant. Once again, it's about me sort of trying to understand where this is coming from. So with the Women in Business Big Show, I get quite a lot of pressure, but quite a lot of comments that I get are that I need to charge more? Is charge more? It's too cheap. You need to make more money doing this, and in order to do that, you need to charge more for the tables. But actually that's what That's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it so that people can afford people who wouldn't normally be able to make that investment, either physically with money or mentally, because it's a bit of too much of a leap for them wouldn't join in, they wouldn't come along, and if they did, they wouldn't feel comfortable because they'd be such a pressure on them to I've got to get this money back. I've got to get this money back. I've got to make the best of it. That we wouldn't have the atmosphere environment that we have. And so I have this vision which if I charge more, just charge more, I'm. Going to lose. What the values and why I set it up and why I get pleasure from it. And to some extent that stops me in many ways getting investors in because they have what they want to see is they want a percentage back of whatever. And in order to do that, let's start mucking about with you know, let's stop mucking about with these forty pound tables. Look at the people that are in here. Everything. The starting point needs to be three to four hundreds on these. But it's not the same. We've lost it. It's not the same event. And that is a conflict for me. And now I can see how it's not that much of a conflict because. I ain't doing it. It's a challenge that I need to overcome and find a different way of perhaps doing something, but I'm not doing it, and that's it because it's not me and it's not what I want to achieve. And I can now see this, Yeah. You're ripping the soul up. Exact and we have to go back to, I think, finding the soul and then getting people around that to support that soul in its growth. And it's a real back it's a real tricky balance for me, it really is, because I also need to eat, you know, I need to at some point along the way. I need to make money. I need to not only cover the cost, but I need to pay for my time, and I need to make a profit. But if the only route open to me is actually I'm not going to say sell my soul, but to sell the soul of the event, I might as well just stop doing it, mightn't. I The decisions we make becoming fear based. And that's what the problem is, because of course, we do need to feed our families. We do need to make sure that we have enough, and we need to propel forward. So we have to find a way of doing that. And just to sort of explain it from my understanding, so I do have a community interest company that sits underneath it, But there are compromises with that that I don't want. This is my. Project, is my stuff, Sorry, but it is. And I could see that being very similar with a product that yes, it may well be that you could bring it out as a what would be the you know, like a community a community interest company or community project. But once again, you're you're bringing other people into the mix who potentially have a say on what you're doing, and then you may well lose the whole thing. Isn't yours at the end of the day. Anyway, You can't sell it or give it to your children or something if you decide you don't want to do it anymore, So you've lost your part of that and your involvement in it. And I'm guessing this is a similar thing with a product exactly because a lot of them may have a community a community benefit, or a world benefit. Is that what we're talking about. It's exactly that. Okay, So when you take I'm going to assume that really what you're doing is based on people producing products. So when you take that and you put them into your platform, how do you help them get that funding? Who is this? Who are these people who do who do the funding where they're happy to let you run with your social part of it and your own values and get money out of it in a different way. How does it work. Well, I do think that there is a shift in consciousness happening right now. And I think that if you just listen to the words people use nowadays and compare it two five years ago, there is a difference. And I think a lot of people are starting to feel that some of the structures that we have perhaps don't serve us anymore. And I think that there are plenty of investors who feel that way, that they actually want to bring something that benefits humanity. That sounds very grand, but that actually, you know, are not there just to put some money in and then get. Whatever what they're. Expecting get on milestonestone and targets and timetables and all that kind of stuff. But are seeing, Okay, this is a really important thing that I think that the you know the world would really benefit from. I want to get involved in that and that, you know, let's find a way of you know, making that happen. So how do we draw the line here between investments and donation. Well, donations could of course always be good but I think what's good about having people invest is that you also get engagement because you might actually want the investors to play some kind of role in the venture. It's not like. It's one thing to have the creation retaining its integrity and and they you know that is sacred. But the innovator may not have all the skills. They may not have the business skills exactly. Okay, So that's where the investor can become in handy. So what, of course donations could be. No, what I was saying was if if you have money there, okay, but you don't necessarily you don't want to donate, So we're not talking about that. You are an investor, how do you need to look at things differently? And what what expectations can you have of actually getting your getting a return on your investment. It doesn't necessarily have to be getting equity in the business, for example, the other ways of structuring it not that having equity in the business. It could be the right way. It depends on. So something like a loan and then interest charges on top and being paid back. Or a piece of the revenue, yeah to how the business. Grows, Yeah, definitely, So sitting on the side of it, sort of sort of being an investor and this is not my area, So forgive me if I'm looking at this in a bit of a naive way, well actually completely naive way. But if if if an investor is sat that they have a lot of money that they are actually looking to invest, they sort of need to be is it riskier? Is it that they are now the whim of the values of the innovator or is this where your platform comes in. That's where the platform brians. Okay, because. You could liken us to being the stewards of the project or the creative endeavor, but that doesn't and it doesn't mean just because you're honoring the creation that's there as the central focus point, doesn't mean that you're going to be ditching the investors. It's all about creating the you know, basically unity amongst the people who are involved. So are you giving them that? Having conflicting interests. So are you are you giving them a structure where the innovator has a way of communicating effectively with potential investors and then the investor or investors that they take on board, so that there is a common meeting ground as to what is being trying to achieve here, you know, the values that they're bringing into the project. So everybody understands each other and nobody's pushing any boundaries here. That's right, yeah, okay, right, okay? So is it just the UK markets or do you investors want to invest internationally too. So that the initial seeds of it have actually been in SOD in the US. Okay, But that doesn't mean that the United States does only market at all. I see that as something that, you know, okay, could happen anywhere in the world. So tell us the name of the platform again. It's the Sovereign Revenue Trust. Entity, so the sovereign So if I was an innovator, what does this platform look like? How do I how do I get started? What do I do? How do I find out about you? Well, you can start off and look at the website which is sad SRTE dot com. I spell that to you s A G E double a E s r t E dot com. Okay. So, so, as as an innovator, I would go on there and there will be some sort of goot guidance or a route. Do I do I then join or do I apply? Or at this moment in time I think these is just to get in touch, to start the conversation. Okay, and as an investor, is that the same process? That's right. But this is of course how I see this developing. It it's a movement, you know. So it is really you know, inspiring people do things slightly differently and seeing if we can make shifts in in the boxed in world that we have now. And that's not to just any of you know, anything that's out there, but there might be a different way that could actually lead to better results for everyone. And the way in which I always see things is I think that we have for generations now compromised on what we're bringing to the world because we are confined by these structures. Okay, right, so I think I've got an idea now on what it is that you are trying to achieve. You're looking very excited when you're saying. Well, I should do number one. I'm quite I'm quite surprised I actually understand it, but I think I do if it's okay, If it's okay with you, what I would like to do now is shift the conversation a little bit around from this is what you do and this is what you do, and this is what you have been doing and building. But having read some of the sort of information because we do ask our guests to send in a little bit of background, I think you are in a very similar situation to the one that I very often find myself in with being I know sort of what I do. I can describe what I do. I'm just not quite sure who I am or how I tell people I'm this. And I also there was something in what you put down about having a very big vision and that we can make big changes, like big global changes. But sometimes it doesn't feel like, you know, here we are. You know, i'm when neither of. Us are presidents, and that includes you. You're not a president. You know, we're not running governments, when we're not commanding armies. You know, I don't know about you, but I don't have a you know, a community of you know, twenty five million people following me along, and so sometimes I don't know, you tend to think I'm actually do you know, I can't do that. Other people do that. Other people do those massive have those massive global changes that really affect lives of millions and millions of people. But what you've put is that actually we can do that, and we need to have a shift to accept that we can. And I just like to get your thoughts on that. Absolutely, And I think we'd always have this tendency to downplay ourselves and what we're capable of doing. And I think, you know, dreaming big is something that we all should be doing much more often. And dreaming big doesn't mean that we were kind of ending up in La la land and quite but I think we vision came up to me when I was sitting on the train coming over here because I was listening to the podcast we did five six years ago. And I don't know if you've ever seen the Incredible series, mister Incredible when he's stuck in this little gray cubicle in the insurance office doing absolutely you know nothing, he's not following his passion and he's looking so great and so miserable. And I used to use that little gift, you know, for many years. When I was presenting the fact that you know, we could come to accept, you know, our health in the content. You know, we reach a certain age and we think, okay, well I'm forty fifty whatever, so I'm supposed to be like this. This is the way it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to get a little bit decrepid. I supposed to have two pieces. Exactly little buttons of the middle. And we do the same with kind of the the the choices that we are kind of gently and perhaps not always so gently nudged into. So we're letting go of, you know, what we really dreamt of. You know, if you speak to a toddler, isn't it wonderful? They just jump up and down and then the sting out what they want to be and no hesitation and whatsoever. And then we go through life and we are kind of channels channel into different professions. For example, it's always this cliche there when you get to forty or fifty, can you change where you're going? Like you were saying about the Invincibles. Could he change because he's got the children, he's got family at home and the commitments. Can he do it? And obviously yes, you can, yes, you know, but people, Yeah. I think there's different levels here. I think there are people who believe they can change, but the change is actually quite small. It seems big, but it's quite small. And then there are changes that are global. So I left corporate and bimbled around doing I have no idea what really it was in business goodness, that's what I was doing. And now I run events and I have a radio show, and so I sort of what I'm doing is actually quite not shallow, but it's on quite a small scale. I'm not operating globally, I'm not campaigning, I'm not changing millions of lives. And I think it's I think I think people can make very often a small step, even though it may seem huge, but then there's actually a gigantic step. Now I certainly haven't made that gigantic step, and I'm not sure that I can see that gigantic step. You may not see it. But with the domino effect, if you do one one thing, that person's going to go along and it's going to do another thing. And I think it's about the belief of making it. It is the belief of being able to get that vision exactly. You can't see it in front of you, so you think it's smaller than it could actually be. And it's that limiting belief thing, and it's such a insidious thing that really takes over it. It isn't everything. It is and we've only we've only got a few minutes left, and I think this is such a This is such an interesting topic because you know, what is the difference between say, me and I don't know. I can't think of somebody who was a you know, really sort of having a global impact. What is the difference. It's probably belief and perseverance and consistency. Like you said before in the beginning, dream big. Yeah, but it's about having the position. It's about having I would say, the permission to dream big, but allowing yourself to dream to dream big, and actually not putting a ceiling on what you can achieve. And stop making assumptions that the structure and the order that we see today is going to last forever, because I think that's one of the things that it's back to the box again. We think this is the only way we can do it. So why is this the only way we can do it? Yeah? Yeah, we have not a lot of time left, so I'm going to cram this in quickly, and you will not have seen this question and you would not have heard it before, so. That I quite like that. In fact, there are three qui and you're just going to fire these off of me because we're going to run out of time. What's your top tip for being in business? Tip for being business? Ye, stay true to yourself. And what do you know now that you wishuld have known when you started out? That everything every journey you think is going to be fast is going to take a lot longer. I like, And this one is how are you changing lives? I am changing life through my dreams. Brilliant and iverson. Thank you so much for coming back and being a guest on the show again. Thank you to my lovely co host Michael, and we will all be back. Well, we'll have you back on the show in a few weeks, won't we you will. Michael's is my regular lovely co host. I'm Chel Murphy. This is Women in Business Radio show, and we will sort of see you all again very very shortly, and please have a fantastic time in the meantime. Tune in next week to the Women in Business Radio Show for more stories, ideas and inspiration to help you grow your business.