Choosing to Live a Bold Life with Kelly Lamb

Today's episode is a little different. We're having a conversation with Kelly Rose Lamb of the Bold podcast. 

She asked us about single parenting, and we asked her about her mission to help women give themselves permission to step off the expected and well-worn path, which of course is something single moms are very familiar with.

Throughout the conversation, we explore how difficult it can be to step away from convention and do what’s right for us, whether it’s choosing to be a single parent or saying no to all the expectations society has for women.

Kelly’s story reminds us that even people who are living a different path than us can have similar experiences that contain universal truths we can all relate to. 

In this double interview we discuss:

• Being a single parent is better than being in a bad relationship
• Feeling proud of being a single parent and telling your story
• The positive legacy of difficult experiences
• How small brave acts can add up to a bold life
• Embracing the process of your unique experience

This episode goes beyond the single parent experience and speaks to something bigger. We hope you enjoy it and get some insights to help you on your path forward.

Creators & Guests

Host

Carmel Ecker

Co-host of Single & Mighty

Host

Lindsay Carlson

Co-host of Single & Mighty

What is Single & Mighty: Build a great life after divorce or separation?

You can build a powerful (and fun!) life after divorce or separation. Hosts Carmel Ecker and Lindsay Carlson are here to bring you real-life stories and hard-earned lessons, so you can have the motivation, clarity and community you need to thrive as a single parent. Whether you're co-parenting, parenting alone, or your kids no longer live at home -- this show is for you.

For single moms, single dads, single parents, co-parents, solo parents, and those who care about them. Join us to hear about entrepreneurship, financial independence, dating, remarriage and step-parenting, blended families, going back to school, growing your career, co-parenting schedules, leaving domestic abuse, finding adult friends, solo travel, creating fun in your life, and more.

Navigating the Single Parent Journey with Kelly Lamb
Single & Mighty Podcast
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[00:00:00] Carmel Ecker: When you're a single parent, there can be a lot going on from managing money to growing your career or business while parenting, dating, and finding time for yourself. How can you create a great life and actually have fun doing it?

[00:00:15] That's the question we're here to answer. Welcome to Single and Mighty, the podcast where we believe single parents deserve to lead mighty lives. Here's a little bit about us, your hosts. I'm Carmel Ecker, a single parent who gets my adventure fix as a mountain biking coach. I'm also the founder of Your One Amazing Life, which is dedicated to helping you bring more joy into your life through simple, intentional actions that make a big difference in the long run.

[00:00:46] Lindsay Carlson: I'm Lindsay Carlson, a solo parent who left an abusive relationship to start a new life. I now enjoy running my own company, Mighty Ink Marketing. We work with visionary businesses who want to stand out, get known and serve more of their perfect clients. We've both been single parents for more than a decade, which means we've made our share of mistakes and learned a few things along the way. What stands out for us is the value of community inspiration and support to create a life you love no matter what the world throws at you. And that's what this podcast is all about. So listen in, get inspired and leave a review so other single parents can find it too. And sign up at singleandmighty.com for bonus resources and special news. All right, let's get into today's episode.

[00:01:47] Today's episode is a little different. We're having a conversation with Kelly Rose Lamb of the bold podcast. She's asking us about single parenting, and we're asking her about her mission to help women give themselves permission to step off the expected and well worn path, which of course is something single moms are very familiar with.

[00:02:09] So this episode goes beyond the single parent experience and speaks to something bigger. We hope you enjoy it. and get some insights to help you on your path forward.

[00:02:19] Kelly: All right, Lindsay and Carmel, I am so excited to talk to you both today.

[00:02:24] Carmel: Yes.

[00:02:24] Lindsay: we're excited too.

[00:02:26] Kelly: Thanks for being here. I would love to hear about your podcast and what inspired it.

[00:02:33] Carmel: our podcast really is, it was called Single and Mighty, and it's the podcast for single parents leading mighty lives. And the reason that we launched it is because we both felt like this. The image that's out there, the stereotype of single parents is really negative. It's not uplifting, it's not inspiring, you know, except for the odd like underdog movie that comes out where, you know, and it's usually a single mom and she grapples her way through adversity and comes out on top kind of maybe sort of sometimes.

[00:03:08] and we just felt like, there's so much variety in the stories out there and there are single parents out there who are kicking it. They are doing awesome and we really wanted to provide that inspirational story or stories that don't seem to be very prevalent at the moment. Is there anything you wanted to add, Lindsay?

[00:03:28] Lindsay: I think that you have summed it up in a really nice package there. I guess the only other thing I would add is I had been, I've been a single parent for 10 years now, which is kind of crazy to think, and over the years, I've kind of wondered like, where are all the single parents?

[00:03:47] There is like a 50% divorce rate. and when I talk to people I'm like, wow, you're a single parent too. Yet nobody really owns it and stands up and over the years I've met some people who, like you said, are killing it. They're either doing so well in business or they're so, their parenting is just so beautiful what they're doing, or a mixture of the two that.

[00:04:10] It was just kinda like, why don't we tell some of these stories and show people it's not such a bad thing. Do you mind if I add one more thing?

[00:04:18] Kelly: Of course.

[00:04:19] Lindsay: Yeah. One more thing that's really important to me personally is I also know from experience that a lot of people are in bad relationships where it's toxic and they are so scared to leave those relationships because they probably don't know anything about what it could be like on the other side.

[00:04:37] Kelly: Hmm.

[00:04:38] Lindsay: So for me, there's a huge part of that where I just wanna say, Hey, it's, it's so doable. You will be okay. other people are doing it too. You don't have to stay stuck if you are in a miserable relationship. So that's really important too.

[00:04:53] Kelly: Such good insight. Would you both talk about your experience of becoming a single parent? Is that something you, you would be willing to share?

[00:05:01] Carmel: Absolutely. I can do the Cole's notes of mine. so I was married for I think five years in that relationship for 11. And uh, after we had my son, our son is still ours. The, the relationship, I mean, the relationship was breaking down before that happened, before I even, got pregnant.

[00:05:20] So, we just reached a point where I was like, this is not salvageable. I, I want it to be. We went to counseling, we tried, but the reality was, I have two choices here. I can suck it up. Stay in this relationship that is not functional. And that's the model that I will show my child of, you know, what married life looks like.

[00:05:46] Or I can, you know, say, screw it, I am, I am a strong, independent woman and I can figure this out. And being a single parent is not the worst thing. That could happen to me. And, and I said since then, it was actually the best thing that could have happened to me because of all the changes that came about as a result of that decision.

[00:06:08] and now I'm like, like Lindsay, 10 years later and just feeling super happy about that choice.

[00:06:17] Kelly: I love it. Lindsay, what about you?

[00:06:20] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for asking. It's funny how our timelines match up in so many ways, Carmel, but we can talk about that later. It is a really funny thing. Yeah. So I have hope. I have hope that, I will learn to do some of the crazy bold stuff that you are doing these days. I've got time. Yeah, mine is 10 years, and I was actually in a situation of domestic violence.

[00:06:44] There was a mixture of physical violence, emotional violence, and just like that, that rear psychological violence, the gaslighting and all of that going on, so, That sort of thing makes it really hard to navigate what's real and what's not real, and you, you kinda lose track of the vision that you had for your life if you ever did.

[00:07:06] So I started that relationship when I was in my early twenties and I was in it for 13 years, had two kids, actually had three kids by the end of it. and when I. When I got pregnant with my third, I, I just, I cried because I knew that this would just keep going on forever, unless something changed.

[00:07:27] And so it took a while, but through a series of little hints here and there from friends and from my sister, I left that relationship. but I think I would've left it a lot sooner and with a lot more strength if I had had any examples of single parents who. were happy, because I grew up with the thinking that you have to stay in a relationship.

[00:07:51] You have to stay married, you have to stay with the person that you had the family with. You have to do everything it takes to keep your family together. And so the cost to me was, I really lost a lot of years in my twenties and in my thirties even. And my kids too. It, it wasn't really great for them.

[00:08:08] It's really hard on the kids. So we've done a lot of work since then. and we have a totally different life now. I, I don't even recognize the person that was in that relationship, which is really amazing. but it was hard and it continues to be hard. So the legacy of those hard years, yeah, it, it just made, it made.

[00:08:30] Me really want to show other people that there's another choice. So yeah.

[00:08:36] Kelly: I love it. Thank you for sharing your stories. I, they're tender and it's, it's incredible to hear them and the decisions you made in them. 'cause I do, I have people in my life where people have to make a very strong decision and feel so isolated in it. How do you move from that feeling of isolated?

[00:08:55] Like what was your process from going from like what do I do? What is the future gonna hold and isolated in that decision to deciding to be a single parent and then talking about it. Like, can you talk about that, that pathway?

[00:09:06] Carmel: it's not a smooth path. It's, it's really a progression. Like, it's, it's not like one day you wake up and go, okay, uh, this isn't working. Alright, off to single parent land and you know, okay, I'll do this and this and this. Uh, you know, it, it took a while to even get through all of the divorce paperwork.

[00:09:26] there was a lot of emotional struggle that I personally felt it was a really dark time for me. and I did feel very isolated. Like most of my friends were either married and didn't have kids, or they were single, had never been married, or their kids were older. I think I had one friend who was a single parent. So I didn't really have a whole lot of models for how to do it well. And, and also in my, even in my family, like very few people have ever gotten divorced. So I just kind of had to make it up as I went. And even then, like. There weren't, podcasts weren't as big as they are now. Like the, the volume of information that we have now, is just exponential compared to what it was then.

[00:10:16] It's not even that long ago. Right.

[00:10:19] Lindsay: it's kind of wild. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:22] Carmel: don't know. Lindsay, what was, what was your process like? Mine just felt so gradual. Maybe yours was even more gradual.

[00:10:29] Lindsay: Yeah, I think mine was gradual. I think we've talked about before, the frog and boiling water kind of analogy with a lot of abusive relationships you don't even notice. 'cause at first the pattern tends to be that it's a very. romantic relationship and I was completely love bombed. And so that really sets you up to feel like, you know, you've got this amazing relationship.

[00:10:53] And then, you know, it took a while, but it started to fall apart and I thought it was all my fault. And so actually when one of the big things was I went looking for marriage counseling because I wanted to know how to make our relationship work. and ironically, I saw a Facebook post at one point saying that you could get referrals for marriage counseling through the local, domestic violence shelter.

[00:11:21] And so I called them, it's a really funny thing, and, and I explained my story to the counselor and she said, you know what? I've got a cancellation. Come in now. Just, just come. We need to talk. And, and so kind of the universe looking out for me a little bit. I also say there were hints. my sister, she saw some of the things that were going on because I did isolate myself, or I was isolated through that relationship, so I didn't let anyone know how much struggle we were going through.

[00:11:52] but my sister kind of saw it and so she said once she said, it doesn't have to be so hard, and just really supportive. Sweet little comments over the years were really helpful. And my kids like really seeing through my kids' eyes that this, this thing kept happening. Like we'd have some happy times and then we'd have a total.

[00:12:15] Outrage outbreak. that was horrible and it would set us all back and my kids pointing out like this keeps happening. so at some point everything gelled. And when I went and talked to the, the local domestic violence shelter counselor, it was like in blaring red lights. And it took me about two weeks from then to just, we left and we went and stayed in a shelter for several weeks.

[00:12:38] Well, I got my stuff together and started, started over, so yeah,

[00:12:43] Kelly: So courageous. I, you guys both have these incredible stories of, of finding your way and you're talking about an such an important topic. How did you two meet?

[00:12:55] Carmel: Do

[00:12:55] Lindsay: that's a good one.

[00:12:56] Carmel: one?

[00:12:57] Lindsay: Sure. That's a good story. Yeah, it's, it's, it's one of those serendipity things. there was an app called Clubhouse a while back that was a really big deal and everyone was getting on it. And I'm a marketer, so I wanted to figure this app out, and I started listening. There was this thing called the Lullaby Club.

[00:13:17] So Clubhouse was an audio social engagement app, and the Lullaby Club was a place you could go and listen to people sing lullabies. it was like kind of all the rage for about a month, and,

[00:13:30] Carmel: It. It was longer than that. And Clubhouse

[00:13:32] still exists. It's still operating people.

[00:13:35] Lindsay: Fair, fair. I do tell people Clubhouse sometimes, and they're like, what?

[00:13:40] Kelly: it was such a,

[00:13:40] Lindsay: was a cool idea.

[00:13:41] Kelly: still there, but it was very popular.

[00:13:43] Carmel: Yeah.

[00:13:43] Lindsay: was so popular. Yeah. So I wa I hopped in a few times to a lullaby room and there were usually like professional musicians. It was really impressive. And one day I hop in and there's this beautiful voice singing a lullaby, but a little bit shaky. And I was like, oh, that's really interesting. I wonder why, like, I wonder who this is and I wonder a little bit shaky, like, ooh, that's not a professional musician, but so melodic.

[00:14:08] And I was like, wow. Beautiful voice. And so I looked the person up and it was Carmel. and the only way to find out more was to check their Instagram out. And I found out she was a single parent, which was really exciting 'cause no one owns that. and I reached out on Instagram and it turns out that in this whole wide world of places that she could be, she lives.

[00:14:28] On Vancouver Island, which is like a two hour ferry from here, like we live in the same zone and we went to the same university and we went

[00:14:37] Carmel: at

[00:14:37] Lindsay: the same program. Yeah, we both did the journalism program. It was just like, click, click, click, click, click. So I said we, we hopped on a call and Carmel said, I really wanna tell single parent stories.

[00:14:49] She was thinking a book, and I was like, I really wanna tell single parent stories. And then we decided that like, let's do a podcast. And yeah, it's been a great journey ever since.

[00:15:00] Kelly: a fabulous way of meeting. And Carmel, will you sing us that lullaby now, please,

[00:15:04] Carmel: God, I don't even remember what, I don't even remember what song it

[00:15:08] Kelly: Lindsay? Oh

[00:15:10] Carmel: Oh, wow.

[00:15:12] Lindsay: but Carmel does, she's a performer and she's been singing on stages, so that's really cool. Yeah.

[00:15:19] Kelly: Will you tell us more about both your lives? You, you live these phenomenal lives. I just learned you're a performer, Carmel, but can you tell me more about the things you do as well as this podcast?

[00:15:29] Carmel: Yeah, for sure. Well, um, I mean, my passion is mountain biking and so I'm a mountain bike coach as well as a life coach. And I, I really stepped into that. I've been, I've been riding for a long time, 27 years, which is a, a little bit unusual. there were not a lot of women in mountain biking at that time.

[00:15:48] When I started and I decided, actually earlier this year, I feel like I'm stepping into the most powerful part of my life. Because

[00:15:57] Right, me too. I

[00:15:58] Kelly: a great sentence.

[00:15:59] Carmel: I had a moment where I was at a mountain biking event, a few weeks ago and I, you know, I was just really reveling in the joy of the event and the riding that we did and the people that I'd met and I was like, holy shit.

[00:16:13] I think I'm living my best life. Like people talk about that, right? Like, go live your best life. And I'm like, oh my God, I think I'm doing it.

[00:16:22] Lindsay: Amazing.

[00:16:22] Carmel: but that has been a really pivotal decision for me. this year. I've ridden, you know, I go out for a mountain bike ride almost every weekday, right around lunchtime.

[00:16:32] Because it's what I love to do. It's my stress, my de-stressor, it's my fitness, it's my mental health, and it's also my work. So I feel totally justified. I'm like, I get out there and I'm like, yay, I'm working. I'm

[00:16:48] practicing my demos.

[00:16:51] Lindsay: It is so

[00:16:51] Carmel: Um, yeah, so, so that's, that's been really exciting and it, and it really does make me feel like for the first time in my life, I'm really living into my own vision, following my own passion and not chasing someone else's ideal. And it's been a buildup to get to this point, not living someone else's ideal of what life should be. And I feel like it's a bit of a constant battle. Because there's so much data coming at us, so many people telling us you can have this and you can have that and da da da. And it's how do you decide what it is that you really want and then give yourself permission to do that and

[00:17:30] not be afraid of the potential, you know, consequences of that

[00:17:34] Kelly: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:35] Carmel: Right. You know, 'cause we're always worried about money and keeping a roof over our heads and, you know, giving attention to all the people that need us, especially as women. And so, yeah, I just gave myself permission this year. I was like, I'm living into this. I don't know how it's all gonna wash out, but I am gonna trust that I will figure it out.

[00:17:56] Kelly: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's, that's incredible and wonderful to hear that you feel like you're coming into that era. It's, it's so inspiring.

[00:18:05] Carmel: Yeah. It only took me 45 years.

[00:18:07] Kelly: Well it, I mean that is so good. Honestly, that's so good for my listeners to hear because I think we don't get told that story, right. It's like more instantaneous and it's not this back and forth evolution and it's like it just happens overnight and that's just not

[00:18:20] Carmel: It is such

[00:18:21] Kelly: people who tell us that's not true, yeah, the better. Lindsay, what about yourself?

[00:18:26] Lindsay: Carmel, that's so exciting. See, when I grow up, I wanna be like you. Um, But it's true. It's really amazing to see that you've always had that in you in the years that I've known you now, because it's been a while, but just to see the shift in the past year has just been. So clear and, and yeah. She, we were talking just a couple weeks ago on the, I think on the phone and she's like, you know, you absolutely said those things.

[00:18:53] Like, you know, some people say, live your best life. She's like, I'm totally stoked. This is happening right now, and it's being intentional choices, so that's so exciting. So other than being Carmel's sidekick, um,

[00:19:07] Carmel: hardly, hardly.

[00:19:11] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting because I have three kids and two of them have just started university this year, and so.

[00:19:21] They're not too far away, but they've stopped living at home for the most part. I'm being a little careful here 'cause there's some back and forth. and that just, that has shifted things so much in our household. So we went from a busy, busy household where there was scheduling and a focus on everything that had to be done.

[00:19:41] And, you know, just like every day felt a bit like. Working my way through a really, really tough challenge at the same time, super fun. And they have all this big energy and I adore them and now they're off in the world. And it's just me looking across the table at my 12 year old and we're like, okay, what are we gonna do with this?

[00:20:04] There's a whole new chapter. so I mean, there's some sadness in letting go of what we used to have. It's actually been a real process this year. And then there's some opening up. So, I've started dating again, which has happened on and off over the years, but I'm, I'm taking it more seriously now. I'm like, you know what, if anything is gonna happen in, you know, like the vision is I wanna have a partner and I wanna have somebody who's a great equal.

[00:20:32] Someone who can stand strong beside me. And that's different than what I wanted a few years ago too. So I'm really glad I actually had the time to evolve to that. so I feel strong in that dating potential. and just sort of navigating what I want for myself. Like I wanna have the fitness. In my life.

[00:20:52] And so for the past year I've been running and very consistent about it. And you know, what do I want my entire life to be? So I've been always been really heavy on the career, and partly because I needed to. Earn enough money to raise the kids and I had zero support. So, and you know, we started with zero.

[00:21:12] so that's been a hard focus for a long time. And now it's like, okay, well I wanna have that full circle, you know, that circle that coaches use like your whole life. I wanna, I wanna build all those other parts. and that's what I've been working on this year.

[00:21:27] Kelly: Wow. I just in awe of both of you and, and the work you've put in and the intentionality you have, it's, it really comes across so it's so needed. I. One of my questions for you both is, and, and part of what my goal is in, in my own podcast is helping women own their stories and really own who they are. what would you say to people who, who are afraid to own their, their being own the reality that they're single parents?

[00:22:01] Like, what, what would you say to them that need to say, yeah, I'm owning this identity and I'm okay with that.

[00:22:07] Lindsay: Hmm. Can I go? That's such a good question.

[00:22:12] Carmel: You look like you wanna answer it, so I feel like

[00:22:13] Kelly: Yeah, you do.

[00:22:16] Lindsay: Yeah. Well, one place I notice it as an entrepreneur is on LinkedIn, for example. very rarely you run into someone who has that in their profile or something, but when they do have that in their profile, it's like a beacon that calls in other single parents who can identify with that. It's a really strong choice to make because I feel like it's saying no to the stereotype of, oh, a single mom is not gonna be able to show up for a full work schedule.

[00:22:48] Or, oh, a single mom is, you know, working three jobs or scattered or what, depressed, all these things. It's saying no, and it's making it stronger and I feel like just saying it. It's advocating. So a few years ago, there's no way I would've said that publicly in a business way about myself, felt like it was something very private.

[00:23:11] And now I feel like it's, it's a change we need to make in the world. And the people who are single parents are the ones who are gonna be the, you know, making that change. And it'll make a better, a better future for people in, you know, coming after us Who. I don't want anyone to be like me looking around and just terrified to leave a relationship, so, mm-hmm.

[00:23:36] Kelly: Thank you. Thank you for saying that. What about you, Carmel?

[00:23:38] Carmel: Yeah, I, I would off the back of that. Yeah. There is so much power in sharing our stories. it creates connection when someone can hear your story and go, oh, I'm not alone. And then on top of that, from a personal level sharing, every time you share your story, every time you communicate it, I feel like there's some strength that builds.

[00:24:01] Each of us. The more I tell my story, the more I feel like, yeah, I've come through, you know, not the worst that anybody's ever experienced, but when you're in it, it feels awful. Like there I, I mean it when I say there were some really dark nights for me when I was going through my divorce and wondering like, like my life just exploded.

[00:24:25] Lindsay: Yeah.

[00:24:26] Carmel: And, and being able to recognize, like, share my story, share that part of it, and then share the part where I'm like, oh my God, I'm living my best life. That it, it's that proof that I can come through hard, hard things and reach the other side. And so from, from this moment forward, like let's, let's not pretend that I'm never gonna face any challenges from here on out.

[00:24:51] Right, but I can look back on my past and go, I've done this before. I can do it again.

[00:24:58] Lindsay: Totally.

[00:24:59] Carmel: So it feels very powerful.

[00:25:01] Kelly: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:02] Lindsay: I love that. I, I think there's something about strength too, you can feel like you're being really strong when you're holding everything together and not sharing the burden with anyone, not telling anyone else what you're going through. But through the podcast and through our experiences, I think what we've found is, Real strength is when you say, Hey, I am experiencing this and I do want help, or I, you know, I, I am ready to help you.

[00:25:28] that creates a, a much stronger connection for everyone.

[00:25:33] Carmel: Yeah.

[00:25:33] Kelly: So good, from one podcaster to to both of you, thank you so much for the work you've put into single and Mighty. It's a story that needs to be told and you guys are really paving the way on that, so thank you.

[00:25:46] Lindsay: Thanks Kelly.

[00:25:47] Carmel: you. Thank you. And I mean, we can definitely say the same about you. I, I love what you're doing with the, the Bold podcast. you know, and, and like ours, yours is fairly new.

[00:25:59] Kelly: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:00] Carmel: Um, but it's so clear what you're standing for.

[00:26:04] Kelly: Thank you. That means a lot to me. I'm going for clarity, so I'm, I'm glad that's coming across

[00:26:09] Carmel: for the win.

[00:26:10] Kelly: Exactly. I.

[00:26:12] Carmel: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm curious what, like, what made you wanna start your podcast?

[00:26:19] Kelly: I had co-hosted a podcast last year and loved the process of it. really loved talking to guests just. I thought it's such a fun platform to be able to talk to people and learn about people. it was a interesting topic to me, the, the overarching podcast, but deep down I was like, oh, I know I wanna focus on women and women's stories primarily.

[00:26:44] and so I went out on my own and I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna launch my own and I'm gonna do something that is about not me, but like me behind the brand. and it's the first time that I had. Ever done that? Usually I'm kind of playing a more support role, bringing people's vision to life. So it was a big step for me.

[00:27:00] It was a big, actually bold step for me going like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk about something that really interests me and I'm gonna own the whole process. and then, and then the stories of women, are really important to me. I think we have very singular. Narratives around the life of a woman. And so I wanted to offer people more versions of, of stories.

[00:27:21] so that, that's the main reason why I wanted to start the podcast. but through it I've learned, oh, there's a whole bunch of other reasons that are, have caused me to grow so much as I'm sure you both know.

[00:27:32] Lindsay: Oh, that's so, that's so juicy. I love that. Yeah. What are some of the, what are some of the stories that you've told so far that really stand out to you?

[00:27:43] Kelly: Each, each person's story is so unique and actually part of the reason I, I went with the name Bold, is I wanted to hear from people in so many different, if you, if you will, like sectors of life. because my interests are so broad. so I didn't wanna just like, Women in business, or you know, women who write.

[00:28:02] so it's been so fun. I've had writers and political analysts and, and people in policy. I talked to a woman from South Africa who is sober and is really loud about her journey of sobriety. so yeah, each one for me has been really amazing in their own, in its own way. but one of the most, Inspiring reoccurring themes is this, this story of process that all of 'em have basically said.

[00:28:27] It's been a massive process. Getting to where I am today. I'm either a process of healing or a process of like being more who they know they are or a process of leaving unhealthy relationships. So, it's more of that process theme that I don't think I anticipated so, so much, but it's been everyone I listened to everyone every conversation, I'm just like, wow, this is so beautiful that people are willing to admit the process they're in.

[00:28:50] and going through so,

[00:28:51] Carmel: Yeah, because we live in an insta success image kind of world. Right. You know, and, and so yeah, that, that focus on the process is so beautiful because none of us gets where we are overnight. Good or

[00:29:07] Kelly: Yeah. And none of us, and none of us are talking about it, right? None of us call up our friends and you're like, oh man, like I'm feeling exhausted again and I'm not making any progress, and I have all these self doubts. It's like we just kind of promote the success and the. I got a master's and I got a new job and I got a raise and you're like only ever talking about I won this competition and I swam across the Pacific Ocean.

[00:29:29] You're like, oh, great, great, great, great, great. So

[00:29:32] Lindsay: Yeah. And that can make you feel like you're really not living up to what other people are doing unless you see behind the curtain a little bit.

[00:29:39] Kelly: absolutely.

[00:29:40] Carmel: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:41] Lindsay: amazing for you to set that example for a woman out there and, and just show like, this all takes a heck of a lot of work, and if you are feeling like a bit of a process yourself, then that's, that's cool.

[00:29:54] That's how it is.

[00:29:55] Kelly: Totally.

[00:29:56] Lindsay: Yeah. So was there like a moment that inspired you to do this podcast all by yourself or like an origin story to it?

[00:30:06] Kelly: Yes. I would say, the, the real origin story, and the one I actually don't tell that much is I went through an ordination process. and actually wasn't ordained based on being a woman. and so it was this like very heightened experience of discrimination, that completely changed my course and my path.

[00:30:26] And I basically, I. I basically decided, and I had always been passionate about women's rights and, and how we show up in the world and have always worked in male dominated spaces. So I wasn't surprised by any of that, but surprised by the like, emotional response to being discriminated because of my gender.

[00:30:42] I basically wanted to just like help women be more free, based on my own experience of, I would say oppression. as dramatic as that may sound or petty or whatever that is, but it's actually like how can we be more free? And it's in the sharing of stories and in the, the gathering of women and the truth.

[00:30:59] We tell when we're together that you actually get more free. So I was like, this is what I'm gonna do with my life. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna limit myself to spaces where women aren't wanted in 2023, and I'm actually gonna do the exact opposite and help us be more free. So that's the origin story. I am a little quiet about it because it was like highly political and Just like a really dark era of my life.

[00:31:21] And, and I can say like throughout the course of my life, there's been all these little moments, but that would be the biggest one where it like really got me going for wanting to, to help people be free.

[00:31:32] Lindsay: Can you tell us a little bit about your process getting here?

[00:31:37] Kelly: Yeah. Uh, long, slow, tiring. And I say that because. I just think there are so many factors that keep us distracted, that keep us doubting ourselves, that keep us focusing on like a better job with better pay. and, and for me it's been a very meandering path that I've gone, like maybe this career, maybe that one, you know, now I'm doing this and I love it and it's led to another thing.

[00:32:02] But, basically I think it's been this process of like acknowledging the common thread that's run through it all. Then having this like, incremental courage to keep pursuing it. so I'm super confident in, in the, the job I have and, and the like kind of career life I have. But the passion to, to free women is this, it's an evolution.

[00:32:23] It's like, I don't, you know, I don't technically coach, but I have a whole bunch of people that I sort of do and, you know, six months into a podcast. So it's been this like, I would say a fight, quite honestly, of like becoming more me and becoming more okay with, with who I am and what I'm doing.

[00:32:40] Carmel: That's, that's so good. That's so good. And I love that you referred to the meandering part of the journey because I think there's so many of us out there, and I'm including myself 100% in this, that we feel like we've been like doing this wobbly path that's looped back on itself several times,

[00:32:59] Kelly: Definitely,

[00:33:00] Carmel: you know?

[00:33:01] And we still don't feel like we're necessarily on a straight path, and do we really need to be. Just because there's this, you know, story that we're given when we start out in life of, okay, so this is the process. You grow up, you graduate high school, you go to a university or college or whatever it is, right?

[00:33:18] And then you find your, the love of your life, and then you get married and then you have kids, da, da, da. And that is still, you know, as much as the world has changed, that's still the prevalent. Timeline that we're given, right? And so if you don't do it in that order, or if you leave pieces out, or, you know, if your career ends up changing 53 different times,

[00:33:41] Kelly: Yeah.

[00:33:42] Carmel: right?

[00:33:42] Like you don't find the one career that you're meant, like, you feel like, oh, I'm, I'm just, I'm watching all these people succeeding around me and I'm, I'm stuck. But are you, I.

[00:33:55] Kelly: Totally. And I would say we're very fixated on that like straight path. But for me, I'm, I would actually say it's like more like a line drawing and it feels very chaotic when you're going through it. You're like, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. But when you step back, you're actually like, oh, that, that is a beautiful picture.

[00:34:11] And actually like, this is a beautiful life. But I think it takes a, I think it takes a long time to get there. Like for me, the better part of a decade to recognize that this like meandering path is this like beautiful line drawing. Versus this like very linear line that I failed at. You know, I haven't checked any of the boxes, so every time my birthday rolls around, I, again, I'm reminded that I'm failing.

[00:34:32] But I have to like remind myself that, you know, I'm, I've chosen a different path and it's beautiful to me.

[00:34:37] Carmel: Yeah.

[00:34:39] Lindsay: I think that that's true every time your birthday rolls around. I love what you said about incremental courage too. 'cause it really is those little choices that we make pretty regularly. Maybe every day. Like right now, we could be working and, you know, moving forward our projects and we are taking a moment to have this conversation, not knowing whether it's gonna be worth it or not, but, but we're fully here for each other and this takes courage here.

[00:35:09] Kelly: You're so right. I think we also get fed a, a lie that courage is these big bursts. And I think for some people it really is like, you know, Hollywood is based on these massive bursts of courage where people do these crazy things. But for, for me, it is these like little decisions on, on the daily of little amounts of courage.

[00:35:28] I think over time create a very courageous story. but I've stopped looking for those like big bursts. They don't come in my opinion. So it's little tiny incremental courage.

[00:35:39] Carmel: think they're incremental. Yeah. one of the things that you talk about is, Women taking up space,

[00:35:47] Kelly: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:48] Carmel: I don't know if I wanna say where did that idea come from, but like, I guess why does that resonate with you and, and how do you feel about that as we move forward in the world?

[00:35:58] Kelly: I still think women are taught to be pretty small, in a corporate context. You know, I, I think we still get taught to be polite and gentle and responsive and, you know, if you demonstrate kind of bigger qualities of. Aggression or boldness or being loud. It's, in my opinion, still negative. I think we've made some progress, but very, very little progress.

[00:36:25] And so I think there are two sides to that. One is, one is just take up more space, be more you, and be okay with the feedback you're gonna get, which is, and I get a lot of friends asking me this, like, just got, just got terrible feedback. I, I've been told I'm too much and I'm like, perfect. Perfect because you're, because you're taking up space and you're making people uncomfortable.

[00:36:47] So there's this like very kind of patriarchal take, take up more space, like claim back what is yours and if you are feeling, if you are like a loud, strategic, ambitious woman, be that and be okay with the like pretty negative feedback in my opinion. Then there's another like emotional level of that, and that's the one that I'm currently working through, which is like I am allowed to.

[00:37:07] Matter, and my preferences matter and who I am, like I can keep growing into who I am versus reducing myself to like get through life and navigate the like ideal woman. So it's, it's a double whammy in my opinion, and it's a really tough one. And I think most of us don't actually wake up to like how small we've been asked to become.

[00:37:27] Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:27] Kelly: But I think it's this like evolution of actually take up more space, be be louder, be more you. And I'm not like calling all women to go around and be like, ah, I'm so loud and aggressive. But if, if you have those personality traits, please don't hide them. And actually you're not bossy and you're not mean, you're, you're actually, these exact same traits are seen in men, but they get called positive things.

[00:37:48] So,

[00:37:49] Carmel: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think all, there's a, there's a second part to that where, you know, as, and I don't, I have a son, I don't have a daughter, but you know, for those of us who have daughters, that we need to make sure that we're not making them small too. Because of, you know, patterns of being that we have that we learned, right?

[00:38:10] It's so easy to perpetuate that. We have to be really conscious about not allowing that to happen.

[00:38:16] Kelly: It's so true. Well said.

[00:38:18] Lindsay: it's very true. And the patriarchy is sort of, it's like in order to survive, you want your child to fit what's expected at school, what's expected in the job world, and just remembering that we could envision a different way of doing things and create a different. An entirely different culture and just, just with those little choices, that incremental courage that you talk about. I love that. I also think. This is something I've been working on as well, is the taking up space and not apologizing for yourself. And so I can completely understand where you're coming from. What do you do to support yourself though, when you're taking those risks every day? And it's, it's not easy.

[00:39:00] It's like you're like, Brene Brown talks about it being the arena you're putting yourself, right? Where people can criticize you and see you, and you're being very vulnerable to do that. So how do you protect yourself or take care of yourself, I guess?

[00:39:13] Kelly: This is also an area where I feel like I really need to grow. I think I haven't necessarily calculated for. The, the like counteract the internal reaction, which is exhaustion, which I do think that when you like really show up and you're like, this is who I am and I'm, I'm going through like the mental battle of being okay with who I am and then knowing how I'm coming across and like reading the room and having to filter through so many externalities.

[00:39:38] I think, I think for me, the reaction is actually tiredness and then I just keep working really hard and so I think I've gotten like more tired as I've. Tried to take up more space and not allowing that need for rest to really be present and then to really celebrate it. because I think you can get a little bit on this treadmill where you're like, okay, even on the podcast, you're like, okay, I have a podcast and I have to promote it and I have to create content.

[00:40:02] And you're like doing this thing that's asking you to take up more space and then conversely tired. So for me, I think it would come down to this like deep rest that

[00:40:12] Lindsay: Hmm.

[00:40:13] Kelly: don't think society really affirms. And I think it looks very different than Netflix, which is often the like, really easy way to rest,

[00:40:21] Carmel: Yeah. That can be numbing,

[00:40:23] Kelly: totally numbing.

[00:40:24] Yeah. So I, I've realized, and even the last few weeks, I'm like, oh, I need to be really careful because I can feel myself getting like tired to a degree that I don't think is okay. And, and I would say that's like a tax of, of evol evolution. and the way to pay it off is rest, in my opinion. So.

[00:40:41] Carmel: What does rest look like for you?

[00:40:43] Kelly: I am really working on that, but I would say being out in nature, I know it sounds really cheesy, but that's like such a massive one.

[00:40:50] Carmel: So not cheesy

[00:40:51] as someone who goes out, as someone who goes out in nature every single day for like an hour, hour and a half.

[00:40:58] Lindsay: So good.

[00:41:00] Kelly: I think often activity and like skiing or cycling or walking along the beach, I think something actually in motion where your mind is able to rest is actually.

[00:41:11] More important for me than when the body rests and where like those sports where you're like con completely consumed that you're not like mulling over all of the exchanges you've had or the lists that are unfinished. You're just like, I'm trying to get down this mountain so fast without crashing. So

[00:41:26] for me,

[00:41:27] Lindsay: all that matters. Yeah.

[00:41:29] Kelly: thing in that, in those like four minutes, that's the only thing.

[00:41:32] And so whenever I get done those activities, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm alive.

[00:41:36] Lindsay: That's

[00:41:36] Carmel: Ugh. And isn't that the most amazing feeling? And I, and I

[00:41:40] I get the sense that that's a little bit of what you are trying to, emphasize for people, right? Is that I am alive, I'm here, I'm alive. Like, no, no settling.

[00:41:54] Kelly: Yeah. Show up live, live alive. Let's do this.

[00:41:57] Lindsay: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Well, I think it's, I think it's really important, Kelly. I think your podcast is really important and the stories you're telling and the fact that you're taking up space and growing into that vision of yourself and who you wanna be. I think that's all really inspiring. Thank you for doing that.

[00:42:16] Kelly: Oh, thank you so much, Lindsay. That means a lot. Well, you guys, this has been so fun. I've loved getting to talk about my podcast and how you guys ask such great questions, and it's been such a privilege hearing about your podcast and both of your lives, so thank you so much.

[00:42:31] Lindsay: Thank you. This has been really great. Yeah. My mind is just bursting with ideas of how we can do more collabs, so

[00:42:39] Kelly: Let's do it.

[00:42:40] Carmel: Yeah, and I'm I'm excited to keep listening and, and hearing, you know, hearing stories from the people that you're bringing on and, and the, the barriers that, you know, we're all gonna break down.

[00:42:53] Kelly: Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much.

[00:42:58] Before you leave, we want to give a big shout out to our friend and musician, Laura Kosh, who wrote our intro and outro music. Laura is the singer songwriter for the band, the Quirks, and you can find them online at the quirks, K W E R k s.com.If you enjoyed the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review and share it with other single parents in your life. Thanks for listening.