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Join us on our quest for the extraordinary!
Sam McKee (@polymath_sam) has 9 university qualifications across 4 subjects including doctorates in history and philosophy of science and molecular biology. He researches both at two British universities and contributes to both space science and cancer research. Meet fellow polymaths and discipline leaders working on the frontiers of research from all over the world. Be inspired to pursue knowledge and drive the world forwards.
Watch and share interviews with professors, lecturers, researchers, engineers, scientists and astronauts, right here! We talk to the most extraordinary people working on the frontiers for humanity, driving research forwards and changing the world that we live in. We dive deep with thinkers, academics and true icons - many of whom you won't yet have heard of.
Listen to us here and on podcast whilst you drive, exercise, do chores, and be inspired to pursue extraordinary in your own life.
www.sam-mckee.co.uk
Polymath World (00:01.422)
Hello and welcome to the Polymath World Channel and it's philosophy today and I'm so excited to be joined by a first class guy as well as a first class researcher and the biggest muscles in philosophy. A guy who lifts heavyweight textbooks and research articles just like he lifts weights in the gym. The biggest guns in philosophy. Hello Dr. Joshua Sijuade. Thank you for joining me.
Joshua Sijuwade (00:24.421)
Thank you. That's the most lovely intro I've ever had. So thank you for that. It's great to be here.
Polymath World (00:28.59)
Well it's true, mean people who see you work out must assume you're playing basketball or an offensive lineman or defensive lineman in the NFL on Sundays when you're not doing philosophy Monday to Friday.
Joshua Sijuwade (00:44.261)
Yeah, yeah, it is actually most of time a surprise when I tell them what I actually do. Most people think I'm like a personal trainer or something like that. So it's a bit of a, it's a good conversation point, I would say.
Polymath World (00:55.618)
Now I try and be a gym rat, although it's hard to find time. But the gym is a great place to listen to audiobooks and read, isn't it?
Joshua Sijuwade (01:02.949)
Yeah, very much so. I'm actually even worse. I actually do like physical reading when I'm in the gym. So I have like all my books are on my phone. So in between my sets, I'll just be reading. And it's something that I've built up over like a few years of doing. So I actually get through a lot of my reading in that, the hour or two hours I'm in the gym. So yeah, it's a helpful, it's a good time to get everything out of your mind and just sort of focus in on lifting weights and also doing some research.
Polymath World (01:33.356)
Absolutely, it calms your heart and your mind and that's what Kindle and iBooks are for, isn't it? Definitely. Awesome. So you're a philosopher of religion, are there other disciplines of philosophy that you're involved with?
Joshua Sijuwade (01:38.457)
Yeah, yeah, very much so.
Joshua Sijuwade (01:46.711)
Yes, so my primary area of research is philosophy of religion. I would say that if someone asked me, what do I do? I'll say, well, I am a philosopher of religion. But the good thing about philosophy of religion is that you to really try and be good at that area of philosophy, you have to have good knowledge and good understanding of different areas. And so you end up stumbling into other areas of philosophy just so you can be a good philosopher of religion. And so because of the work I've done in philosophy of religion, it's sort of
moved me into doing a lot of sort of research and a little bit of writing in metaphysics. So that's a general area of philosophy. So yeah, the sort of two main areas that I work in is philosophy, religion, and then also metaphysics as well.
Polymath World (02:29.034)
Excellent, it's all interesting stuff. Let's get into your background. How did you get into philosophy? mean, were you a big reader when you were a kid? Did you sort of flow into it as soon as you got into secondary school?
Joshua Sijuwade (02:41.945)
Yes, I've got a bit of a strange story that might not be inspirational at the moment of when I'm telling it when I was younger, but then hopefully it will be later. But I was actually not a very good student at all. was when I was younger, I battled with a lot of learning difficulties. So reading was a big challenge for me. Writing was a big challenge for me. So I just wasn't interested in academic study at all. And so when I got into sort of into GCSE time, so that's like 14, 15, 16.
Um, would say that study wasn't at all in my area of focus. It wasn't at all an area of focus. I was very much into playing sports. So I was big into American football, rugby. Um, and that was sort of my life. I was very much into, I want to be a sportsman. I want to actually go and, you know, excel in sports. So if you ever spoke to me when I was 15 years old and say, Oh, you're going to be in academia, I would never have believed you. It was never something I ever thought. Um, and so then my journey took him a really
big, I would say, or massive U-turn in sort of my perspective on life, through actually a religious experience that I had. So when I was 19 years old, I had a religious experience where I believed that I was lying in bed and I wasn't asleep. And I heard, I believed I heard the voice of God saying to me, Josh, if you die, you're not going to be with me. And that's a strange thing because number one, it's not something that we hear all the time. We don't believe that God speaks to us.
as audibly as that, but I really at that time believed that God was speaking to me that I was not going to be with him when I died. Now at that point in my life, I was not a practicing Christian. I would not call myself a Christian at all. I was someone who was very much involved in sort of, would say the secular type of the world and very much focused on sports. So again, not at all interested in academic study, but when I heard that voice, when I had that experience, everything in my mind completely just
changed. It was like my mind in a way was regenerated such that I now didn't have the desires that I used to have just a few minutes before. I really believe now that my gosh what's happened to me I don't want to live like this. I don't want to be living a life that's away from God. And so just from that point on it was like new beliefs, a new belief set, new desires, a purpose in life was now implanted within my mind which I couldn't at all explain and so
Joshua Sijuwade (05:07.373)
Within a few months, I now had a desire that, I wanted to go and study theology. I didn't want to go into sports. I didn't want to do all the things I was doing. And it was just literally off of that religious experience. And so from that point on, I then said, okay, I'm going to go and study theology and I want to know more about God. I want to know more about this sort of experience that I went through. And then when I was in, so I went to study at the small theological college called London School of Theology and I did a theology degree in my second year.
I discovered philosophy. I didn't know anything about philosophy before that. I didn't read any philosophers growing up. And so I discovered philosophy and specifically I discovered philosophy of religion. And it was from watching and a lot of people hear philosophers of religion. It's actually always the same person. It was William Lane Craig, which was very interesting. I was watching a debate with him and Christopher Hitchens and I was blown away. I was like, this is an unbelievable defense of the Christian faith. And I never saw that before in my life. And I was like, I need to know more about this. I need to get more into this.
Polymath World (05:56.932)
wow.
Joshua Sijuwade (06:05.551)
Just from watching that and then sort of, it led me to sort of research a little bit more about philosophy of religion. I then discovered Richard Swinburne and from him, from his sort of his work, that really changed my direction. I really felt I wanted to be a philosopher of religion, because I really do believe that there is a great need for it in our contemporary society and also something that I had a great interest in at that point, yeah.
Polymath World (06:29.004)
Wow, okay, so there's loads of things I can't pull out of that. Yeah, but I want to start by agreeing with your last point. think, you know, multiculturalism, diversity, philosophy of religion has probably never been more important and more interesting than it is now. It's interesting you note that debate with William Lane Craig and Christoph Hitchens, because I was a big admirer Christoph Hitchens and his sort of oratory style. It's very much missed.
Joshua Sijuwade (06:56.293)
Yes.
Polymath World (06:58.552)
That was a really interesting debate. I remember seeing that. I think I watched it in the gym actually. People could see it on YouTube.
Joshua Sijuwade (07:00.121)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It is. Yeah. When I speak to lot of people, that debate, I've always heard people say, that debate was very good. And that was just something that really just put a light bulb in my mind of saying, wow, there's actually a way to investigate the religious faith from a rational perspective. And yeah, that just really opened up the gate that I then ran through into philosophy of religion. Yeah.
Polymath World (07:22.19)
Wow. Well, we have interviewed William Lane Craig on this channel and it's a real pleasure to speak to him. I'm sure there are a lot of people who've been turned on to philosophy by listening to him because he does do a lot of debates for a philosopher of religion. It's something he's well known for. Swinburne as well. Yeah, a giant in Oxford University, still there. Have you ever had a chance to meet him?
Joshua Sijuwade (07:25.989)
Great.
Joshua Sijuwade (07:35.822)
Yes.
Joshua Sijuwade (07:45.697)
yes. Yeah, I've got the I've just had the privilege of building up a really nice relationship with him. So he was my external examiner for my PhD. So, yeah, so that was great. So it was it was very nerve wracking at the time because I mean, my whole PhD was a bit of a challenge in itself because my supervisor passed away just a few months before my submission date.
Polymath World (07:56.801)
really? Wow.
Polymath World (08:02.04)
that.
Polymath World (08:13.677)
Thank
Joshua Sijuwade (08:14.115)
And so, and I was already, at that time I'd written, I think 150,000 words and I had to cut it down to 80,000 to submit. So that was a big challenge. But anyways, I got through and made it through. But then also normally you'll have your supervisor who's there coaching you for the Viva to get you ready. You you're to have this other expert who's going to be analyzing everything you've written. So, but unfortunately I didn't have a supervisor. So I was by myself just thinking by my own, my gosh, I'm going to have to speak to Swinburne and defend my work in front of him.
But he was lovely as always. Anyone who gets to know him, he's actually a really, really lovely person. yeah, just over the past few years, he's really just been a great help for me. A great, I would say, a mentor in a way and just someone who I've really looked up to. Just someone who is really, not just from an intellectual standpoint, but really trying to live the Christian faith as much as he can from a personal standpoint. yeah, just, yeah, he's been a massive influence in my life and a great person, yeah.
Polymath World (08:55.448)
No.
Polymath World (09:14.22)
Yeah, very gentle, very soft-spoken man. I'm struck by he always seems to have time for younger students. He takes that very, very seriously. Very old now, very frail, but he's always got time for people. And he is a living legend in philosophy of religion. He has also overseen Max Baker-Heitsch, who I know you know, and we've chatted to on this channel. There's a nice network in philosophy of religion, it seems.
Joshua Sijuwade (09:23.171)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (09:37.273)
Yeah. Yeah, very good.
Polymath World (09:39.438)
You mentioned your religious experience. I do want to ask you about that if that's alright. I had a very mystical experience in the lab at Cambridge about six years ago, which was dramatically life-changing, probably life-saving because I was in all sorts of mental health trouble at the time, out of nowhere. So you won't meet a ton of skepticism from me, even though I'm generally quite a skeptical person, but...
Joshua Sijuwade (09:44.067)
Yeah, yeah, please do, please do, yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (09:50.852)
Okay.
Polymath World (10:09.294)
So you're not religious and you're just lying in bed and you have this experience of, as you put it, hearing the voice that you believe is the voice of God. Was this sort of an audible? I just want to know, is this like an audible?
Joshua Sijuwade (10:23.769)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can break down. So, I mean, I was brought up in a Christian home. So I was within a, I had a Christian worldview. So I knew if you asked me, know, the most basic questions about Christianity, I probably will be able to answer some of them. But I at all was not living a Christian life. So, I mean, I was that type of person you can imagine that you can picture in your mind kicking and screaming, going to church. When I'm in church, I'm on my phone.
Polymath World (10:30.093)
Right.
Joshua Sijuwade (10:52.207)
playing a video game, you know, something that was my life. So I didn't care at all about it. So even though I had a worldview in which, you know, if someone asked me, are you a Christian? I would probably say, yes, I wouldn't deny it. But I had a very, I would say, a very reductionist form of Christianity such that it's just, yeah, you believe in God and you tick the box and that's it. But there is no outworking of a lifestyle related to Christianity. But yeah, so, but.
Polymath World (10:55.084)
Right.
Joshua Sijuwade (11:19.757)
At that point in my life, I at all was not thinking any theological beliefs. So I was just thinking about, want to be an American football player. I want to go to America. That's my thoughts. I want to go to the gym to be prepared, training. That was all my life. So at that time, God was never in the period. I don't think I was even going to church because I was 19 at that time. So it wasn't like my mum was saying, you have to go. So I don't think I was even going. It wasn't part of my world, sorry, my part of my life at that time.
So when I was lying in bed and I just, I just believed that I heard actually a voice. So, you know, it wasn't one of my sister or something playing a prank on me or something. I don't believe that. But I really did believe I heard this voice. But it was a voice that I believe that pierced my soul. was like, I don't know, like someone just reveals the state of how you are, like, and just speaks to you in a way that you.
You just can't deny the truth of the matter. And yeah, I believe that it was audible. And I believe that I really did hear something. Now, obviously someone who's non-Christian would say, you know, that could be, you know, was a hallucination or something. And I have no problem with that. At the end of the day, the experience, if it is something which is subjective or objective, outside of you showing that there isn't a God, God can still use that.
scenario as a means to bring me into a relationship with him. So even if it was that I could have been hallucinating or it was an objective or not experience of God, I did believe that God had used that to call me out from where I was to a different walk of life. Because I really do believe honestly, I would not be in any good way if I didn't become a Christian at that point. It was literally for me like a saving and the similar to what you were saying about yourself.
It was a saving a life moment because I was someone who was very, so like I was egocentric in a way that I, know, I was, everything was about me. And also I was very aggressive. I was very, you know, the person who was happy to pick a fight. And I was, you know, the person who was very inclined to doing the wrong things. And it was like just God picked me out the right point before I got off to America.
Joshua Sijuwade (13:42.905)
before I went to university, I was just picked out. Cause I took a gap year. So I had a place at a university in England, but I wanted to go to America. So I said, okay, I'm going to take a gap year to go and try and get a scholarship. So I hadn't gone to university at that point. And so I was at home and training and doing stuff with the team. so, but I do believe that at that point, if I wasn't saved, I don't know where I'll be. And I know, and if I do know where I'll be, it wouldn't be in a good place. So.
Yeah, so it's just a strange thing, but it's like a revolutionary moment that really redirected my whole path in my whole life of where I'll end up. Yeah.
Polymath World (14:21.23)
Well, it really strikes me that it was certainly something that caught you off guard, was extremely personal, hence why I'm sure you attribute it to the Christian God because of how personal it was. And regardless of whether anyone would think it was a hallucination or some sort of episode, it clearly changed your life. And as you put it, changed your life for the better. yeah, that's remarkable.
Joshua Sijuwade (14:44.591)
Yeah.
Polymath World (14:51.294)
So you did already have a place at a university, so I'm assuming you were going to go study something completely unrelated to philosophy, was the plan.
Joshua Sijuwade (14:58.649)
Yeah, it's always embarrassing when I tell this story, but I will tell it. So like I said to you, I was not at all focused on academics. So I had no desire. Like my whole thought, I was putting someone who puts their eggs all in one basket type of person. I'm just doing American football and nothing else. So I wasn't that rational person of saying, let me have a backup plan here if it doesn't work out. And so I just randomly picked the course that I was doing. So, and this is the embarrassing part. So I went into...
And you can see where my mind was at that time. I went into an open day and I, so I picked, I said, let me just pick, let me go look at some courses. So I went to an open day at the University of Essex and, in my, yeah, University of East Anglia, sorry, I went there and I saw that there were loads of girls on the course. I know that this is why it's so embarrassing. I was like, wow, this is amazing. Yeah. I was like, okay, I'm taking it. And I'm being honest with you, I picked this course because of that. And so,
Polymath World (15:49.166)
I've heard it before.
Joshua Sijuwade (15:56.087)
Like you can just see how silly I was as a person and so shallow. And so I just picked a course and I, but because I wasn't studying, I didn't get my, offer to get into university. So I had to go through clearing and I ended up at a university in Wales. And I was like, I don't want to go there. So it was sort of like a motivation to say, okay, I need to do this American football. So let me just, my mom was saying, and my father as well, they were saying, you have to have a university. You have to go to university, especially coming from an African household.
It wasn't something where you could just decide to do nothing. So I had to say, okay, all right, mom and dad, I want us to try this America for all. Let me try it out for one more year, see if I can get a scholarship and I'll just put on, I'll just put, I'll take a gap year and keep my place at this clearing university. But again, yeah, it was just completely random. I didn't have any idea or desire to do psychology. I hadn't studied it for A level or anything related to that. I had no scientific background.
I did for my A levels, did business studies, history and English language. So then to just go to psychology is just a random thing. So you can see where my mind was. And so that's also something that I look back on and say like how like a different, just a different type of, a different worldview was implanted in my mind. And it was like just seeing, like understanding what is of value and what is of not value.
For me, just picking a course because of shallow reasons, like who would do that? But I, at that point, that was my mindset. it was like, this experience was so revolutionary that it completely just changed everything. And it was, yeah. And so why I always look back at it is just saying, how could it be just a few words changes someone's life? And it really did. It changed my life in that type of way, yeah.
Polymath World (17:44.27)
Well, this is such a great story. I mean, back in 2002, a long time ago, because you're younger than me, when I was doing my A levels, one of my best friends went to St. Andrews because at the time, they had a six to one ratio of female to male students. And that was his entire reason for going. So I had to smile at that. I love American football. American football is my other great passion. I'm a
Joshua Sijuwade (17:51.493)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (18:01.285)
Yeah.
Yes. Yep. Yes. Okay. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, that great now. Yeah.
Polymath World (18:11.982)
full on NFL addict. been a Detroit Lions fan for 20 years, 20 hard years apart from the last few. So I'm living my best life now. I used to coach high school American football here in Britain. And a number of my players went, they, a big part of them choosing their university was whether it had an American football team. You know, they wanted to play. I had one student get a US scholarship.
Joshua Sijuwade (18:25.592)
nice.
Joshua Sijuwade (18:38.91)
well.
Polymath World (18:40.046)
for a high school football, like the highest level high school football. And another one of my players did make it to college football and played Division One offensive line for West Virginia. Big shout out to Eric. Yeah, he's very proud of Eric. We won six national championships. I was 2011 coach of the year.
Joshua Sijuwade (18:42.019)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (18:49.898)
wow, that's unbelievable.
You must have been a great coach. Yeah. All done.
great.
Joshua Sijuwade (19:04.372)
wow.
Polymath World (19:04.824)
But then my twins came along and I had different stuff to do. This is not my story, it's your story. I'm really struck by... You know, there's such a similar connection between the philosophers on here. Stephen Law got kicked out of sixth form. My friend Mitch, who did philosophy at Cambridge here, only got three A-levels, three GCSEs, and you know, had to do a foundation year before finding his way there. Julian Begini didn't want to be an academic philosopher. There's...
Joshua Sijuwade (19:09.573)
Yeah. Yeah, I noticed.
Polymath World (19:34.072)
there's something about maybe a late blooming towards philosophy that came. So you did do humanities A levels, but then you go to do theology at LST, correct me if wrong, is that University of Middlesex? Right, okay. Did you do a masters after that?
Joshua Sijuwade (19:38.649)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (19:44.506)
Yes.
Joshua Sijuwade (19:52.953)
Yes, it is, yes. Yeah.
Yeah, so I then did a masters at Birmingham. So I did it in philosophy, religion and ethics. So I decided to go down that path because I already decided, as I was saying in my second year that, I love philosophy. And I decided in my second year that I wanted to go into academia. And so, yeah, I said, okay, I need to find a master's to do it. And then I moved on for that to the PhD in philosophy. Yeah.
Polymath World (20:19.892)
Was your PhD also at Birmingham?
Joshua Sijuwade (20:22.793)
No, no, my PhD was at York, so University of York. Yeah, so I mean, that's the interesting thing. It was on. So because at that time, my supervisor, David Efford, he was one of the leading philosophical theologians slash philosophers of religion in England before his passing. And so he the good thing is that he allowed people to do philosophy of religion in philosophy departments, which a lot of other departments, you won't be able to do it just because they don't have that.
Polymath World (20:26.218)
What was your thesis?
Joshua Sijuwade (20:52.095)
relevant expertise. So mine was a very nuanced thing. I was looking at Richard Swinburne, again, Swinburne played a big role from there. And that's why as well, I was defending his work and analyzing his work. And he was then the person who had to then assess it for my PhD. So that was really interesting. But yeah, so I looked at Richard Swinburne's model of the Trinity, because most people have, they argued that it's a tri-feeistic model of the Trinity.
So they basically say that he is affirming that there are three gods and he obviously doesn't believe that he does. And so I was trying to utilize various metaphysical concepts. So contemporary metaphysical sort of things to redevelop his model, to show how it's not tri-theistic. Now, when I got into my PhD, I got in with, I don't know if you've had the same feeling, but it was, want to conquer the world. I'm going to do, you know, does God exist or, you know, a really big general topic. And...
It took, and this is really interesting, but so I came in with, I can't even remember what my original topic was, but I came in with a topic and over the next two years, I was going from one topic to another, to another, to another, because my supervisor, who was so amazing, really, David was such a blessed man. And he gave so much time to me and I was going on and on and on about different ideas that I had and I hadn't picked a thesis.
And so I got into my third year. I don't know how I managed to get through the two years because I had to always present stuff at the university. But then I got to my third year and I didn't actually have a thesis. I hadn't written anything. And he said to me, and I remember I was actually driving to the gym and he was saying to me, Josh, I think you need to go and just go for the film because it's too late. You only have one year left and you haven't written anything. And that woke me up again. And I said, no, David, I can't do that.
Polymath World (22:45.857)
you
Joshua Sijuwade (22:49.443)
my wife and I will kill me because I've given two years to this and I really want to get the PhD. So then I said, okay, you know what? I have great knowledge about Swinburne's Trinitarian theology. And I really do believe that there is a way to argue against his, against the people who've tried to show that his thinking is Trifaistic. So I picked that and I wrote my thesis and I'm being honest, I wrote it in one year. And that...
That was, yeah, it was very hectic, but I just said, okay, I need to knuckle down and write something. So I ended up writing, I ended up writing 150,000 words and I don't know how I did it at that point. And then I was able to cut it down to 80,000. But then as I said to you, my supervisor unfortunately passed away at the end, just before the end and he was only in his 40s. And yeah, so yeah, it was a...
again, PhD was probably a conversation for another time, but that was a very interesting journey. just I'd never found a thesis and I came in with the wrong idea of what a PhD was. Because it was something that he said to me, which was really true, that your PhD is just your entry card into academia. But a lot of people try and treat it like it's a magnum opus that you're writing, you know, the thing that's going to answer all the questions. And that was my idea up until basically 10 months or one year before the end.
Polymath World (24:07.65)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Your PhD will never be your best writing. It's the thing that gets you doctor and is your entry card to academia. I mean, if anything, mean, my supervisor said to me, you know, you're not an academic when you get your PhD. You're an academic when you start your PhD and you should start acting like it. And that was a wake up for me. was like, no, you start acting like it now. You're not a master's student anymore.
Joshua Sijuwade (24:11.705)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (24:16.249)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (24:29.071)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yeah. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly.
Polymath World (24:37.922)
Well, this certainly, what a crazy journey, but it definitely got you in the writing groove. I mean, because I thought I published quite a bit. I've not met someone, especially not someone your age, who writes as prolifically as you do. You're always churning out chapters, books. So you're now lecturer in philosophy at the University of Birmingham.
Joshua Sijuwade (24:41.092)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (24:44.483)
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (24:56.421)
Yeah.
Polymath World (25:04.526)
one of the best universities in the world for philosophy of religion. And so tell us about your academic journey since your PhD and about the different things you've been writing.
Joshua Sijuwade (25:17.805)
Yeah, so I've had the opportunity now to work at Birmingham. I started in September and it's been great. I really love it. The department's so good and they invest a lot in philosophy of religion. It's one of the best places to study philosophy of religion alongside Oxford in the country. So yeah, I'm really privileged to be part of the department and the students are great as well. Having great debates already, so I'm really enjoying it. But yeah, up until this point...
I think as anyone will know with academia, it's a very cutthroat type of environment. Just because there are a lot of people who are getting PhDs, there's not a lot of jobs. And because the turnover rate for someone who is getting a position is quite low. mean, it's because a lot of people, they get into the university and they try and develop and progress through the university. So you end up not having a lot of job openings.
What really happened was, so this is now after university. What's interesting is my academic journey is very much closely tied to my personal journey. So that's why I already said with the sort of religious experience I had, that got me into academia. But then I got married a year, sorry, not a year, I got married a month after I graduated from university. So I got married quite young, I was 23. And I got married and...
I was saying to myself, well, I need to provide for my family. I don't have a job, so I need to do something. But I already had in my mind that I wanted to go into the PhD. But I said, obviously, as someone who's a husband now, I want to do the best to support my wife and my family financially. So I said, okay, I need to pursue the academia, but also having the, you on the side as well, or not even on the side as I was explaining the second.
or in my other hand, I need to have a job. So I decided to go and train for a PGCE to become a secondary school teacher. when I straight after my, this was 2015, straight after my BA, I then went into King's College to do a PGCE in religious education. But whilst I was doing that, because I said I wanted to pursue the academic.
Joshua Sijuwade (27:36.277)
life as well. I decided I was going to do the PGC and do my masters at the same time. And that was crazy. fact, honestly, that year is a blur. I can't remember anything that I did just when I finished it. yeah, I decided, okay, because I don't want to stop because I said, okay, if I stop, because I'm married now, we have plans for families to have kids, things will start getting on top of everything. So I won't end up actually achieving what I want to achieve. So I said, let me just
still go full throttle, but I need to go full throttle into both. So I was training to be a teacher and then I then was also doing my masters. The great thing at Birmingham is that it was distance learning. So I didn't have to go to physically be at Birmingham. So I got my masters and then I got my PGCE and then I said, okay, well, I want to go on to the PhD. But then again, I had still had the thought of why I need to support my family. So I said, okay, let me become a full-time teacher. So I was a full-time.
secondary school teacher in a school in Ilford, just outside of London. But then I decided, well, I want to still do my PhD. So then I decided, again, a crazy thing to do my PhD full-time whilst I was working full-time. Now, the interesting thing is, and probably I shouldn't say this on camera, but I wasn't allowed to do that. And so my supervisor kept it quiet. So he, because normally you'll have to do part-time for one of them.
Polymath World (28:46.114)
Ha ha ha.
Joshua Sijuwade (28:59.383)
either part-time work and full-time study or full-time study, sorry, full-time work and part-time study. But I said to my supervisor, he knew my situation and he knew I had a great passion for this. So he said, okay, as long as I see that you're getting on with everything, I'll keep it quiet and I won't let this be known to the university that you're working. But I was working full-time as a teacher. So we're talking about 35 plus hours, marking, yeah, all that, Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Polymath World (29:21.336)
Yes, marking, report writing, lesson planning, all that.
Joshua Sijuwade (29:27.981)
So I was doing that, but then I was also on my PhD full time. So I had to balance both. so, yeah, so I was working, this then was eight years of me working as secondary school teacher. And then I also, did finish my PhD, which was great. I got through it in three and a half years. I don't know how, again, it's all a blur, but I always say it's the grace of God that got me through it. And so, yeah, from that point on,
Something that happened though is because I was working full time, I didn't get enough university level teaching experience because I was working full time as a secondary school teacher. So I wasn't able to go up to York. So all I was doing was research. So on my CV, I had sort of the research degree there, but I didn't have the teaching. So something I had in my mind was like, okay.
Polymath World (30:04.099)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (30:21.091)
because, sorry, just, sorry, I'm talking a lot, but I'll just say one last thing here. So something that is a bit of a catch-22 situation with universities is that they want you to have teaching experience before you get the university job, but a lot of people to get the teaching experience, you really need the university job. So I was sort of in that catch-22 situation. So I said to myself, okay, I'll apply. When anything comes up, I'll be able to work and get the teaching experience, but...
let me do the best that I can with my own, with my own, whatever I have control over, which is my research. So I sort of said from that point, I really said at that point, this is 20, at the end of 2020, I said, I want to just devote myself to writing and write as much and widely as I can. And from that point on, I have not let off.
So from 2020, 2021, I published eight articles. I then moved on eight articles. So I've kept up this average of it. I don't know why, how it's been, but it's just been something that I said, I really want to do the best that I can because I know I'm competing with people who have had a lot of teaching, but then for myself, what's allowed me to get into the doors with interviews has been because I've got a lot of research on my CV. So.
Yeah, that's just something that I set myself to do, that I really want to do this. And I've just, what we can get, maybe you can ask questions about how and all those sort of things, but yeah, that's just sort of being the journey I went on of doing a lot of research. And then I was able to pick up some teaching jobs on the side, which then led eventually to Birmingham now, which as I said, I'm very grateful for.
Polymath World (32:01.769)
We have so many parallels. We're cut from the same cloth, I think. You know, I was double dipping. was studying two things at the same time to try and catch up because I came to it later in life. And I was publishing everything I possibly could, know, everything from book reviews to the full on journal articles as I was doing my PhD as well, for the very reasons you mentioned.
Joshua Sijuwade (32:09.315)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (32:20.389)
Yeah.
Polymath World (32:26.317)
Anytime they said, oh, can any PhD students do any teaching, do any seminars? I was like, yes, yes, I'll do it. Did you already have children at this point? Oh, gosh.
Joshua Sijuwade (32:36.309)
Yes, so that's it. Yeah, yeah. It's even more crazy. Yeah, I had my first daughter in 2017. So I was my first year in my PhD. My second daughter came along 2021. No, no, sorry. My second daughter came along 2019. So I hadn't finished my PhD yet. So I had to, and I've got a photo I remember my wife has on her phone where my two daughters are.
Polymath World (32:44.461)
I'm
Polymath World (32:52.737)
Wow.
Joshua Sijuwade (33:04.771)
climbing on top of me whilst I've got my book in front of me and my laptop. And that's a photo of me. It's so funny. It's something we've always cherished of like that was a time where it was really crazy. But yeah, it's just sort of, I have the attitude of if you really want something, you won't let anything stop you. And so for me, I've always had this desire that I just from honestly, from that point of that religious experience that I have seen like what I'm doing as a vocation. I don't see it as a job.
Polymath World (33:21.655)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (33:33.017)
And when I discovered philosophy of religion, I said, I actually love this. if anyone could go back, honestly, if someone said to me now, Josh, I could rewrite everything, get into that American football team, be an NFL superstar. I'm being honest with you and people will probably laugh and say, no, I don't believe you. But I would never take it. I really love what I'm doing. I feel like I'm actually doing what I was put on this planet to do. And it might seem small philosophy of religion and everything, but I really just love it.
I want to contribute as much as I can in the short time that I might be given by God on this earth.
Polymath World (34:07.191)
Well, it would be hard for anyone to argue you're not born for this. You know what, I reckon if you had become an NFL player and I mean the average career is three years in the NFL, I reckon you'd end up doing this anyway. You'd have come to it later on. I think this is just your destiny. And the people who really succeed in their PhDs, know, the thing they're studying is not a chore, it's a passion.
Joshua Sijuwade (34:21.493)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, thank you.
Joshua Sijuwade (34:34.659)
Yeah. Yeah.
Polymath World (34:36.065)
the thing that keeps them going with all the reading and the research and the writing and the long hours and a lot of people hate their subjects by the time they hand their PhD in, but the best ones, they love it. And I can tell you love it. And I bet your students, you know, love you for it as well because the passion comes through. I imagine that your teaching qualification was a benefit when it came to being a lecturer.
Joshua Sijuwade (34:42.905)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (34:53.029)
Thank you.
Joshua Sijuwade (35:00.793)
Yeah, yeah, I think so. So I would say that I would never never erase that because I spent eight years as a secondary school teacher and it's probably the most important aspect of my development I've had because I think if I if I didn't become a teacher and I went straight into lecturing, I'll be completely different in the way that I approach teaching because also when you're a secondary school teacher.
It's very different, as you know, from university because number one, the students a lot of the time don't want to be there. Unfortunately, they want to be out in break time and messing around with their mates. So you have to be able to make engaging, engaging lessons. And something I really learned was just about making whatever you're teaching as accessible as possible, making it relatable to their own life in whatever way that you can. And this was just for me being able to, you know, understand that.
that I'm in this environment. Cause I, at that point I was like, cause I remember going to my third year at fourth and after my, my, my PhD finished, was like, I really want to be out of here. But I really had this thing in my mind of like wherever you're planted, just blossom, just grow. And I really believe that those years getting the degree and then practicing as a teacher has been the most phenomenal thing for my life and my development. I'm so, I'll never erase it. And I, I'm so grateful. And so I always have like, just in my mind, I know it's very cliche, but
The Lord does have his timing. God has his timing in my mind for anyone who's religious. so, you know, a lot of the time we're like, oh, you know, I want to, you know, just analogy. I want to drive a car when I'm 12 years old. Dad, buy me the Ferrari. You know, and the dad knows at 12 years old I'm not buying you the Ferrari, no matter how much you think is good for you. And that's how I'm thinking a lot of the time. Oh God, I want this thing now. I want to be a lecturer now. I want to have this thing now. But is that really beneficial for me? And when I, if I look back in hindsight,
of all the things where there were closed doors and a different path I went down, I'm like, I'm so grateful and it's so weird. yeah, I would say that definitely it had such a formative, it was so formative for my development as an academic and also as a lecturer in general.
Polymath World (37:17.385)
It's very hard to argue with the fact that it does seem like everything happened at an ideal time. You you being 19, perhaps if you were younger you wouldn't have been mature enough for this. And if it had come much later, maybe you wouldn't have had the energy and the opportunity, you know, being young married with your children just being that bit younger. Maybe it wouldn't have been as straightforward.
Even though you know you were double dipping in your studies and juggling all these full-time things at the same time It certainly sounds like everything came together at the right time I want to get into philosophy of religion now and your research so You're a lecturer in philosophy of religion at Birmingham As an aside by the way, I nearly ended up at Birmingham for my PhD. I I got accepted and I had interviews
Joshua Sijuwade (37:47.353)
Yes.
Joshua Sijuwade (37:55.61)
Yes.
Joshua Sijuwade (38:07.22)
wow.
Polymath World (38:10.817)
but we just couldn't pin down the right supervisor for me. This is obviously for philosophy of science and I went from one person to another to another and then I ended up finding my supervisor at Manchester Metropolitan who was a real fit, but I nearly ended up at Birmingham. I have a lot of respect there for that institution.
Joshua Sijuwade (38:14.095)
Okay. Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (38:24.303)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And the fit, yeah, sorry for interrupting, but that idea of the fit is so important. Just for anyone who is looking to go into PhD, it doesn't really matter as much. I'll be really honest, like where you do it, it's who you do it with because that person is going to be sort of a guiding light for you throughout what you're doing. so having that fit with the right person is the most important thing. And that's what I really found with David. He was exactly...
the right person for me at that point where I was, because I lacked a lot of maturity. I needed someone who was going to bring me under his wing because I wasn't, I came from a theological background more than philosophical. So I had to learn philosophy under his tutelage. So it's, yeah, exactly what you're saying about that fit is really important. Yeah.
Polymath World (39:18.709)
Yeah, everyone I know who quit their PhD, and I know plenty of people who have, half of them I'd say it was because they underestimated the workload and they just weren't cut out for research, but the other half it was because they didn't get on with their supervisor. It just didn't work out, which is a shame. Do you supervise PhD students as part of your role?
Joshua Sijuwade (39:36.505)
Yeah, yeah, big shake. Yeah, so I haven't started yet at Birmingham. I don't know. So my contract is, because my actual title is teaching fellow. So what the focus is is teaching. so my contract is for two years. If it gets renewed, then I imagine that they'll want me to do longer than that. But yeah, I mean, if they ask me and they say, yeah, Josh, I'll be more than happy to do that.
Polymath World (39:43.873)
But you will.
Joshua Sijuwade (40:06.758)
So at the moment now it's just undergraduate and then postgraduate masters supervision.
Polymath World (40:13.685)
Right, well yeah, that's great. I imagine you enjoy that. So you're primarily teaching, but you do research on the side.
Joshua Sijuwade (40:15.011)
Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah, so I mean, it's the thing that I exactly wanted because I don't really need the time that will be given to me as someone who has research on their schedule because I do research anyway. So it's not like I needed that type of, I needed a role which was research focused or something like that. I really wanted a role that was teaching focused. So for me, like if you speak to any person in the department, I'm always like, yes, I'm happy to.
you know, teach this or do that, because that's really what I want to develop more on. Because the research aspect, I've sort of understood what I need to do to get research published. So that's not really the main focus. that, I'm doing that on my own time. But then, yeah, the focus is really a lot of teaching, which I'm really happy with, which a lot of lectures don't like. But I'm the opposite of saying that actually I want less research time because I don't really need it at the moment. And just more time with the students, yeah.
Polymath World (41:17.143)
Well, you keep emphasizing how new you are, but you've already been churning out books, book chapters, you've got other books on the way, so tell us about your research and your writing and what kinds of things you've done already.
Joshua Sijuwade (41:19.971)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (41:27.599)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think it's helpful to first understand exactly what philosophy of religion is as I sort of see it. So myself and, and following sort of in the footsteps of Swinburne, sort of define philosophy of religion as the study of the meaning and justification of religious claims using the best tools and techniques of analytic philosophy. So there's a focus in when you do philosophy of religion, you're really doing two things.
You're looking at a religious claim and you're trying to either clarify its meaning or you're trying to provide a justification for it. So it could be, for example, there is a God. Now, if you're doing the first task, you're trying to clarify, well, what does it mean for there to be a God? What is the nature of God? And you're trying to clarify that in light of certain challenges. But if then you're doing the second task, you're trying to provide a justification. Well, why should we believe we're justified in believing in
What are the reasons to believe in God? And the way that you're doing that is with the third thing I said of using the best tools and techniques of analytic philosophy. So using the best things that we find in metaphysics and epistemology and ethics to help clarify the meaning and provide a justification for religious claims. And so that's literally all that I do. So any article that I'm focusing on is going to be following one of those two things. Either I'm going to be clarifying something to do with a certain religious claim.
or I'm going to be trying to provide a justification for it. And so that's why a lot of people ask me, well, how do you do a lot of research and you do a lot of writing? It's because I really have a worked out methodology. know exactly what I'm trying to do and I'm quite programmatic in my approach. And I've tried again to follow Swinburne. Swinburne is very systematic in his philosophy. So what I've...
published so far. I've focused on sort of two areas. So I focused on philosophy of religion and I focused on a subset of philosophy of religion, which is philosophical theology, which is just exactly the same thing, but you, you change religious claim with Christian claim or Islamic claim or Buddhist claim. So philosophical theology is where you're studying the meaning and justification of a Christian claim using the best tools and techniques of analytic philosophy.
Joshua Sijuwade (43:51.205)
So what I've done is I've focused on these two areas, philosophy of religion and philosophical theology. And so with philosophy of religion, what I've written on is I've written on various things to do with the nature of God. So what does it mean when we say that there is a God? And I've written on a lot of things to try to argue for the existence of God. So those are the two sort of areas I've been focusing on philosophy of religion. Oh yeah, sorry. And the third area related to that is a problem of evil. So I've published, yeah, I've published three, well, I've published two books.
which have been arguing for God's existence and also clarifying the meaning of it. So one was with my first book, which was called Analytic Theism with Routledge. And then the second book I had was with Bloomsbury Academic, which was putting forward a new ontological argument for God's existence. So those were two sort of monographs I've written on that. And then I, in the philosophical theology realm, I've been focusing on specific fundamental Christian claims.
So things like God is a Trinity or there is a Trinity, let's say that's a claim, or the second person of the Trinity became a human being called Jesus of Nazareth. So that's the incarnation. And then he providing and atoning the sacrifice. So that's the atonement. So I've focused in on the three sort of fundamental Christian teachings and claims, which are the Trinity, the incarnation and the atonement. And I've written quite widely, quite many articles that are interrelated to those three areas.
And so I've got an upcoming book with Powergrave Macmillan, which is the first of a series of books which will be coming out. So I've got sort of contracts with them. So the first one is, which will be coming out in May next year, I think May, is The Coherence and Truth of the Trinity. Literally just a very basic, boring title. Where I'm going to be, again, doing that methodology. What is the meaning of the Trinity and can we believe it's truth? What's the justification for it?
So that's sort of something there. Not to talk too much about books, sorry, it sounds a bit crazy. Yeah, there's another book that will be coming out on the problem of evil. So that's going back to philosophy of religion and it should be coming out next year as well, which is where I've sort of tried to put forward my own theodicy. I did in the unbelievable program that you, I did.
Polymath World (45:53.101)
It's fascinating.
Joshua Sijuwade (46:12.037)
by yourself with Stephen Law. I was only able to touch the iceberg of what actually my view is, but I've got a book that will be coming up with Routledge on the problem of evil and that should be next year as well. So yeah, a lot of writing, but everything in my sort of, in my mind is programmatic. I'm either doing something that's providing a clarification of the meaning and providing justification for a general religious claim or a specific Christian claim.
Polymath World (46:39.127)
So, yeah, just for how young you are, you've already churned out a bunch of books. These are academic books, aren't they? Not popular books, like they're proper academic books. But yeah, three books already. But contracts book series on top of all the journal articles you've written. Now I can tell that you love writing and you love research. Yeah, I know we don't have long left, but
I have had a lot of Muslim students in the past who laugh at the notion of the Trinity being coherent. But it sounds like you're doing actual modern academic research on this, defending its robustness, which I think they'd find quite surprising. Now, in some sense, these discussions are as old as, well, I guess as old as Christianity. So what can anyone say about these subjects that's new?
Joshua Sijuwade (47:36.261)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's sort of, again, moving back to the modus operandi of philosophy of religion, which wasn't something which was done prior to. not to give a boring history of philosophy of religion, analytic philosophy of religion is a very new field that literally was carried and on the backs of two people, Alvin Planting and Richard Swinburne. So prior to Plantinga, who
Polymath World (48:02.381)
Mm-hmm.
Joshua Sijuwade (48:05.157)
published a book called God and Other Minds, I 1968, please don't quote me if I'm wrong, but I think it's 1968. He published a book called God and Other Minds and then Richard Swinburne in 1972, if I'm correct, published his first book of his trilogy called The Coherence of Theism. That birthed analytic philosophy of religion because prior to that, philosophy of religion was not at all taken as a serious area of study.
So yeah, we did religion, but we did religion in the theological departments of Oxford, Cambridge and all the universities. But it wasn't something that we did in philosophy. That it wasn't until Plantinger in America and then Swinburne in England, who basically said, no, we can do the best philosophy using the best tools and the best techniques that we have in analytic philosophy to actually show that Christianity is coherent or theism is coherent.
and there is good reasons to believe it. So again, that clarification, the meaning and justification. And so they offer those two individuals and there will be other people, William Lane Craig just came a little bit later on, who then sort of birth this new field where we have sort of a way of doing things which are very different from what people were doing before. And so, for example, let's say someone says, well, Thomas Aquinas was doing this in the 13th century. Yes, he was. He was...
I would say the progenitor of philosophical thinking when it came to sort of theism. However, this is something I wrote in another book of mine, because I've published a book on Swinburne, which is a biography and sort of interaction with his work. And something that I did and he liked as well was contrasting his approach with Aquinas. And Aquinas, he took the approach of theology first, philosophy after. So basically it was a faith seeking understanding position. Okay, I believe in God.
Now, can I use, given my belief in God, what can I use from Aristotelian philosophy to make sense of it? So it was, we believe that God has provided a revelation. What can we do to help us understand that revelation within the theological realm? What Swinburne and Plantinga did was they did something completely polar opposite. They said, let us play the secularist or the secular philosophy in their own game. Let us actually take the best philosophy
Joshua Sijuwade (50:30.029)
and see that if the best philosophy can actually be utilized to then point towards belief in God. So that's why if anyone reads any of Swinburne's book, for example, he'll always start with the first part, just general philosophy that anyone who's Christian will be saying, what am I reading here? Like, what is this? Like, where is God? And so he would say, well, we need to get our philosophy right before we can get our theology right. And so he did it differently. was philosophy first leading to then theology. And so what I'm saying, sorry, in the long winded way of answering your question is,
What is actually being done at the moment in these areas is something different than what was done in the past, because the method is different. The way that we're going and approaching these questions are different. And the tools and techniques are different as well. So actually, it's not like we're doing something that's completely different, because anyone who's a Christian would say, no, we need to be within the tradition of, let's say, for example, the church and the way the church has thought about it. But the same way that, for example, just for someone who is knowledgeable of...
church history, someone like the Cappadocian fathers, Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory of Nazianzus, they use terms that were within their conceptual framework at that time. And we are able to do the same thing now using the best things in analytic philosophy. So that's why I believe that we, lot of people should be really focused in on what's being done in analytic philosophy, because a number of people like William Lane Craig and others will say it's a golden age.
because we have the best tools and techniques to actually argue for God's existence in the most rigorous fashion, clarify and deal with a lot of objections that people normally would bring, yeah, that we wouldn't have been able to do before.
Polymath World (52:13.577)
Excellent. You know, just piggybacking off the back of that, what's, what reason for any young students or older, older people coming to this later on, what reasons would you give for people pursuing a future, future research or studies in philosophy of religion?
Joshua Sijuwade (52:32.581)
Well, I would say why it's important is because everyone has, it is strange, but everyone, let's say we go with the claim that there is a God. Every person has an answer to that question, either that they thought about it or not. And it's because it's the most fundamental question that you can ask. Because if there is a God, that changes the whole of reality.
The whole of reality is different. The way we order our societies are different. The way that we raise our families are different. way that we structure our economic systems are different. Like everything is different if there is a God. If there isn't a God, it's exactly the same. Everything is different as well. And this is not to say morality must be grounded in God. It's just saying that if there is a God, there are various obligations that God has for the way in which we are to live as his creation. So my question...
to be to anyone would be is if you want to be able to have the opportunity to change society and not just be a cog in the wheel, not just be a chain in the in sort of the wheel, but actually have an opportunity to change the dynamics of society, study philosophy, because it will allow you to be able to go and have the tools and again techniques to change the way in which we view reality.
That's philosophy in general. But philosophy of religion, it allows you also to go further, to be able to deal with the most fundamental question that there is, if there is a God or not, and have good reasons for why you believe what you believe. And so this is not to say that you must believe in God. For me, some of the best philosophers of religion are atheists. So people like Graham Oppy, people like Paul Draper, these are great philosophers and philosophers of religion, and they just focus in philosophy of religion, but they are not religious. But what they've seen is that
Polymath World (54:27.201)
Yes.
Joshua Sijuwade (54:29.453)
The question of if there is a God, the question of if Christianity is true or not, or if Islam is true or not, is fundamental for the ordering of our societies. So for me, a wild one to study philosophy of religion is because it's going to develop a skill set where you'll be able to really make a change to the way in which you are going about society or we are going about society in the way that we do things. And philosophy of religion as well, as I said at the beginning,
It is connected to all other areas of philosophy. So again, if you want to be good at philosophy of religion, you have to be good at epistemology. You have to be good at metaphysics. You have to be good and have a well formed view and ethics. So it allows you to become a well rounded philosopher. So I would say it's something that has personal gain in that you're going to be able to develop yourself as an individual intellectually, but you're also going to be able to have a external gain for the society that you're in.
Polymath World (55:06.423)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (55:26.989)
If you study philosophy, you're going to be someone who's a change maker. I really do believe that instead of someone who's just going about or, you know, the way that the world is. Because, sorry, not to go on a tangent here. Sorry. I could be, we should have a coffee shop conversation about this. I think that'll be really good. But yes, yeah, definitely. But just to say something like, if people just really reflect on why is the world the way that it is, why do we act in the ways that we do?
Polymath World (55:41.101)
We'll have to talk again, definitely.
Joshua Sijuwade (55:54.137)
Well, if you just look at the history of the way that the world has developed, it has been because of philosophical worldviews that have developed certain ways of doing things. We think about this way, the world is like this. We think like this about the world. Like, for example, the question of if there was a God was answered with an affirmative. Yes, there is a God. Look how society was a thousand years ago. It was very different in the way that we were operating, the way that we were going about things.
Now that the question has sort of shift or the answer shifted, society again has changed in the way that it's going. Not to say one is good or bad, just to say that philosophical questions are actually at the fundamental level in the way in which society develops and grows and how we operate within society. So for me, just feel like I always have this like my wife's something, because I didn't mention, but when I was thinking about doing that job of being a teacher.
before I can go into the academia. I was also contemplating saying, should I be a lawyer? Like, let me just be a lawyer. Let me actually just go and, you know, have a nice job and, you know, and have that life. Cause I felt I was quite good at like debating and arguing and all those sort of things. But I just felt something that just came to my mind is like, and this is not at all to say anything, law is extremely fundamental for our society. So if you, if you want to be a lawyer, please go and be a lawyer. But what I was just saying to my own self, I just felt like I want to be tackling
ultimate questions. Like I really want to do that. I don't want to just be operating within the system of how society is already like. I want to have the ability in some small way to influence the way that society is moving and developing. And I felt like stunning philosophy and going further in that gives me that ability to do that because you're dealing with the most fundamental questions. It's like yourself.
Sam, with physics or with science in general, or any area of science that you're doing, you are looking at the fundamental structures of things. And it just seems to be so intrinsically valuable doing that outside of its extrinsic value. So, yeah, sorry, just going on a tangent here, but I really am so passionate about this area and I really love it. And I would say for anyone who's thinking about things, philosophy will, number one,
Joshua Sijuwade (58:11.679)
You don't have to be pigeonholed to think you're just in philosophy and that's all you're to do. And you're to become a, you know, Plato with a nice white beard at the end. But no, you might decide, okay, I don't want to study philosophy anymore. I don't want to go further into it, but you're going to have developed a skillset that is going to be so transferable to any other area that you're going into. Like we want more people who are philosophically literate in law, sorry, in finance, in all these areas that, know, where you're really good at thinking. And so.
Polymath World (58:28.065)
Yeah, absolutely.
Joshua Sijuwade (58:39.553)
Outside of it, can think, okay, let me study philosophy now, have a good skill set and foundation, which then I can apply to other areas. But then if you take a liking to it, you also have the benefit of knowing that you have an opportunity to really change the way that the world is viewed at the fundamental level.
Polymath World (58:55.839)
Yeah, critical thinking, questioning, skepticism, know, it's sort of a deeper thinking. Stephen Law, when he was on here, talked about how students who study philosophy, they score much higher on so many things, so many things that we would all see as crucial for society. yeah, absolutely. Great answer. People can find your books, but if people want to find out more about you, where should they go?
Joshua Sijuwade (59:23.779)
Yeah, so I have an academia page where I post most, well, I post all of my published stuff. So all of my articles, they're all available there. So if anyone wants to find my work, you can go there. I'm always open to speak to anyone. If anyone wants to search me and find me on social media, I'm happy to answer any questions or via email. So yeah, I'm just always happy to speak about this stuff. Like I said, I'm really passionate about this. So if anyone has any questions, anyone has any...
they want any advice, whatever small advice I can give, please do reach out, be more than happy and to make time for anyone. Yeah, so you can reach me on online social media and on my academia page.
Polymath World (01:00:03.735)
Wonderful. Can they find your work on fill papers as well if they want?
Joshua Sijuwade (01:00:06.659)
Yes, that's on Philpapers as well. Yes, I always I put on both. So wherever anyone is Philpapers, everything's up on there and then also academia.
Polymath World (01:00:14.925)
Terrific, thank you so much. I've only got one more question. What position were you playing in American football?
Joshua Sijuwade (01:00:19.225)
Yes.
Joshua Sijuwade (01:00:22.861)
Yes, I was a running back. I loved it so much. I loved the opportunity. I know it sounds so horrible as a practicing Christian, but going and running into people and smashing them and being able to cut and try and score the touchdown. For anyone who's into it, I mean, my favorite player, I loved him so much was Adrian Peterson. Just loved him. He was, yeah, I modeled everything on him. Like he was so good. And so, I want... Yeah, yeah, that was unfortunate. Yeah, that was a bit...
Polymath World (01:00:34.061)
Yeah.
Polymath World (01:00:46.945)
He did play for the Lions towards the end, but I have many painful memories of him as a Viking.
Joshua Sijuwade (01:00:52.801)
Yeah, that was the tail end of his career. But his early part of his career, his MVP season as well. think he was only he was eight yards away from breaking Eric Dickerson's rushing record. That's always hurt me. I think it hurts me more than him. I was like, I just wish he did that. But yeah, it's just the way that the world is. But yeah, I was running back and I really loved it. And I still am a big fan now. I'm more of a player fan, which is a bit embarrassing, but I.
Polymath World (01:01:02.572)
Yeah.
Polymath World (01:01:08.727)
Yeah.
Joshua Sijuwade (01:01:20.813)
I love the Kansas City Chiefs because I love Patrick Mahomes. I know, know. But I'm just, he's just phenomenal. Like as a player, I've just, I've never seen anyone like him. And I know like obviously Tom Brady and others, Peter Manning, great as well. But there's something about Patrick Mahomes and also just his humility as well. That he's so humble as a player, but he's so good. And he carries the team on his back. Yeah, I just love the, I love Kansas City Chiefs.
But I watch most other teams as well. Lions are very good. Very good this year. We'll see how they go. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
Polymath World (01:01:56.203)
Yeah, yeah, terrific, amazing. Thank you so much. We've got to get you on again to talk about a lot of things. So thank you so much for your time. It's been great talking to you, Dr. Joshua Sijuari.
Joshua Sijuwade (01:02:08.783)
Thank you so much. Thank you, Sam. Great, great speaking to you. And yeah, I'll definitely be more than happy to come in again. Thank you.