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Where triathlon meets real talk. Hosted by two seasoned triathletes Lockie Jones and Lleyton Wall, this podcast takes a deep dive into the controversies, challenges, and triumphs of the triathlete world.
00;00;05;27 - 00;00;09;27
Speaker 1
She goes in front would help the younger.
00;00;09;29 - 00;00;11;09
Speaker 2
Of courage.
00;00;11;11 - 00;00;20;24
Speaker 1
Unbelievable. There's nothing but. Racer man. World championship title.
00;00;20;26 - 00;00;46;26
Speaker 3
Okay. On today's podcast, we have someone who sits right at the center of the biggest transformation triathlon has ever seen. A leader who has been instrumental in reshaping the sport's global structure. Government of future direction. Yes. Joining us today, Antonio Armani, president of World Triathlon and vice president of the Court of Arbitration for sport, one of the most influential governing bodies in global sport.
00;00;46;28 - 00;01;08;04
Speaker 3
This is a man who spent years navigating through performance politics, athlete welfare and sporting integrity. Now, today, he will be helping guide triathlon into a completely new era through the launch of the triathlon World Tour. Antonio, welcome to the unfunded podcast, and thank you very much for for joining us today.
00;01;08;07 - 00;01;15;16
Speaker 4
Thank you very much for having me here. And thank you. Thank you, guys, for for this opportunity to explain what we are doing.
00;01;15;18 - 00;01;37;14
Speaker 3
Cool. And it's yeah, I guess it's obviously a very big opportunity for us. Like we, we we like to think that we're just two young Aussie boys that, you know, we're not really making too much of an impact. But it's really cool to have someone, someone of, you know, your level in World Triathlon here today and yeah, come talk to us.
00;01;37;14 - 00;01;54;29
Speaker 3
So again, we thank you very much for for the opportunity. We'll start off what what attracted you to being in the role of president of World Triathlon? How is this all come about, where you're sitting here in front of us today?
00;01;55;02 - 00;02;18;16
Speaker 4
Well, you know, in life, sometimes things happen. And when you are not looking for something, I was not it was not in my plans for years ago to become the president, but within the circumstances coming towards the elections. And when my Marisol Casado was finishing, then a big number of national federations around the world asked me to run.
00;02;18;16 - 00;02;30;29
Speaker 4
And at the end they convinced me. And here I am. And I told them, look, if I become president is to do things differently, to do changes and to look and present a program, not not just to hold up.
00;02;31;01 - 00;02;55;04
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I mean, one of the biggest changes that come through as president in only very much a short time since 2024 that you came into presidency, and probably the biggest news in recent days or weeks is that aso I for one classification of world triathlon. So that's pretty huge. Can you run us through maybe what this categorization means?
00;02;55;04 - 00;03;02;05
Speaker 3
Many people probably don't understand what this means. It's quite large for the whole sport of triathlon.
00;03;02;07 - 00;03;27;27
Speaker 4
Yes, correct. The which is the Association of Summer Olympic International Federations. Every year and a half they do a review of our governance rules, structure, operations and and in this occasion we have been able to jump into the first group, which is reflecting how we're doing things and how transparent democratic are in this organization. And this is key for me.
00;03;27;28 - 00;03;45;16
Speaker 4
I just really believe and transparency and good governance. And this is something very important that we implemented around the whole sport. And this is is a very result, a very good result, and that these reflect the work that we are doing. Yeah.
00;03;45;17 - 00;03;56;12
Speaker 3
And I believe that this is the first time that the world Triathlon governing body has been in the A1 classification. Is that right?
00;03;56;14 - 00;04;28;25
Speaker 4
Correct. This is the first time we have been growing through the years, but this is the first time we jump into the first group with the big federations. And of course, you have to consider also that we had the second one in the group. When you compare our resources, our budget, our number of employees, because as big as your organization is easier to do more things, but in that sense, we're very proud that we become second with the size of our international federation compared to the others.
00;04;28;26 - 00;05;02;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, for sure. And for those for those people that don't know other associations that are in this A1 classification, we have the likes of UCI World Athletics, FIFA, like there are some there are some very, very big organizations in this. What do you what do you, I guess believe might have been some of the changes internally in World Triathlon and in the governing body that over the years has got us into this position to be in the A1 classification.
00;05;02;06 - 00;05;33;23
Speaker 4
I think what it has been highlighted in this report is our transparency. We are really transparent with how we allocate revenues to our continental confederation, to our national federations, how we work, how is the information about the contact with them, how is the information about our national federations and the information we provide? Imagine that today in our website you can find the financial statements not only of World Triathlon, but also from any of our members, our national federations.
00;05;33;23 - 00;05;58;07
Speaker 4
You can find it there. So this is transparency. We don't we are here to show what we are doing and and transparency also democracy that our rules and how we took decisions are really key. And also how we solve conflicts in the organization I think is important. And also there reflected as a strong election rules that was mentioned also within the report.
00;05;58;08 - 00;06;28;13
Speaker 4
So there are things always you, you, you have to improve. And then we are working on on scene because we are doing something that is not reflected there, which is a safeguarding a strong policy. Now that has really implemented very recently. And for example, we're working with the foundation today at one of the two Olympic federations that were working in a project for women's participation and safeguarding, also all around our sport.
00;06;28;13 - 00;06;45;29
Speaker 4
So this is key aspects that we are working on and we take really seriously these kind of rules and regulations and situations to avoid and to guarantee that our sport is safe, is secure, and we are proactive on doing these things.
00;06;46;02 - 00;06;58;23
Speaker 3
That's that's what I said. Well done. What. So with this A1 classification, what opportunities does it bring to the sport moving forward or the organization as a whole.
00;06;58;25 - 00;07;20;06
Speaker 4
These were they bring is a trust in the organization. The ones that we are on. The one reflects that we are we are doing well on in terms of good governance. And this is what it reflects to to any kind of partner to our members is trust in the organization, how things are working on and of course, from the IOC.
00;07;20;08 - 00;07;40;26
Speaker 4
This is very important in a moment when the IOC is reviewing the Olympic program for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic Games. So this is absolutely key for us on that sense because it reflects that we are doing things according to the rules and policies of the International Olympic Committee also.
00;07;40;28 - 00;08;11;06
Speaker 3
Yeah, so it's definitely great recognition for World Triathlon and the work that you've done over the last couple of years. One of the next biggest things that you've been a changer of is the collaboration of World Triathlon and the PTO partnership. Could you maybe run us through how that, when went through and potentially like, what's the biggest, biggest goal with the partnership?
00;08;11;08 - 00;08;39;00
Speaker 4
Okay. This is when when I arrived to the presidency, the first thing I, we did is we asked for an independent report about how we were in terms of commercialization of the sport, and we ask the Lord to to to a report, an independent report about how do they see not only World Triathlon, how do they see the sport of triathlon?
00;08;39;02 - 00;09;01;06
Speaker 4
And on that report, it came out that we were really fragmented. There were a lot of organizations and tried is different to other sport, international fashion. We do not have the monopoly of organizing the events in the sport as in any in many and most of the sport. I will say so because of that reality that we have a lot of private organizers and we had we.
00;09;01;06 - 00;09;28;24
Speaker 4
So I wrote my challenge PTO Super League. Many and organizers of the sport of triathlon. We did this analysis and the conclusions were something that we we knew. And then we thought we are fragmented. So we need to create a strong product to see if we can sell it better and allow the sport to grow for the benefit of the athletes, our national federations and the sport worldwide.
00;09;28;27 - 00;09;51;29
Speaker 4
So then we start the conversations. I start conversation with the main private equity funds in London and in the world, trying to see how we can attract their capital to make this change. And everyone was coming to the same conclusion. You are very fragmented. We don't know where we should invest in our invest in toes or we invest in challenge.
00;09;51;29 - 00;10;18;12
Speaker 4
How we invest in the conclusion at the end of the main key players in the sport world is where we don't invest in travel because we don't know where it's going to be the best way. So then we started working how we can create these product that is more unified and creating something different. And within the conversation with PTO, we reach a good understanding of the situation.
00;10;18;12 - 00;10;41;15
Speaker 4
And then we decided, okay, we need to create this new product that could provide us the opportunity to grow. And that's why we created a trade on world tour. And of course, it takes time. And that's why even we started discussions and the negotiations during the last years. Last year at the end, we decided, okay, we need time.
00;10;41;15 - 00;11;05;03
Speaker 4
We need time to to finalize an agreement that we are very close to finalize. And we decided to do it properly. And that's why we launch it for 2027. And yes, PTO had then the 100 that we already recognized as a new world championship last year. And we have the the World Challenge Championship Series, which is still in big event.
00;11;05;04 - 00;11;27;25
Speaker 4
And then also we have had conversations with Super League on this or this and trying to create. So this is the first phase of this challenge, world two. And this is the reason why we partner in the best interest of both organizations. But at the end it's the best interest for the athletes. We need to create a bigger product and grow this sport.
00;11;28;00 - 00;11;50;19
Speaker 4
And if I may can summarize, what do we really want to achieve today? Triathlon is a sport that is very well known by the Trident funds and the people who is really on this board, and we need to move this spot to be popular and to be attractive for the people who are not travelers for the general and the common sport funds.
00;11;50;21 - 00;12;25;21
Speaker 4
So we want to put this sport at the level of tennis, golf on the on that level. Of course, we will need some years to do this, but this is our goal and and we think we can make it happen. How we can make it happen by creating an attractive television product and by creating an important framework in which we are strong, where we are strong on the mass participation, on the mass participation in the sport world today is not moving only on watching people.
00;12;25;21 - 00;12;57;09
Speaker 4
We want to take part. We want to be active. And on that we have a great advantage. And also we realize that is a global sport, some of the sport, they are very focused on certain continent or in countries problems. Everyone is global all around the globe. Within the five continents we have traveled on and good triathletes. So we have the base to build up this sport, to grow and to make something different.
00;12;57;09 - 00;13;20;29
Speaker 4
And this is what we are working on with the partnership with PTO and the collaboration with them is great. And then and we have to do of course, we have to understand also in which areas we are a strong and in which areas we are weaker. And for sure we are not a commercial marketing expert organization. This is not our strength.
00;13;21;01 - 00;13;44;14
Speaker 4
Our strength is to organize events, to create the rules, to officiate and to to run within the Olympic movement. But we were not at a strong of marketing and they are stronger marketing commercialization on that path. So that's what it was very easy to get into an agreement. You do this part, we do this part and then let's collaborate together.
00;13;44;14 - 00;14;11;19
Speaker 4
And this is the whole thing, what we are trying to do, creating this world tour. And as I said, this is the first step. And of course, other organizations are welcome to join because we want to create the biggest and triathlon, a sport, an event, a package that we can select to the biggest sponsors, to the TV broadcasters and to be able to be seen by everyone.
00;14;11;22 - 00;14;39;05
Speaker 3
Perfect. So I guess, like what I took from that is for World Triathlon and PTO coming together. The main goal for you guys is to limit fragmentation within the sport. So is would I be maybe a bit out there saying we would love to, you know, ten years in the future, we would love to have Iron Man a part of this collaboration.
00;14;39;05 - 00;15;17;00
Speaker 3
We would love to have Super League. We would love is that is there a possibility where we see every every organization coming together under one flag, under one banner, working together, being able to commercialize the sport as much as possible because we, we ourselves have had the same conversation. There's unfortunately, we have about ten different world champions in the sport of triathlon from Ironman 70.32, 100 Super League Challenge and the WTS series very spread out.
00;15;17;00 - 00;15;43;10
Speaker 3
And I we definitely agree with you. It is very hard to commercialize such a big sport in such a fragmented sport. Is that the goal in the next sort of ten plus years? Like you said, we understand it will take time. However, are we looking to try and get as many sporting organizations under this PTO banner to grow?
00;15;43;12 - 00;15;46;15
Speaker 3
We'll draft on PTO. Sorry.
00;15;46;17 - 00;16;30;26
Speaker 4
Yes, this is what why we created the world tour. The name of PTO is not there is World tour. And within this world tour from next year there will be two World Championships. The what we will call the T-50 World Championship, which is the Olympic distance hour, and the T100 two World Championship within one big tour. If we compare to some others if motorsport motorbikes when you have the Moto GP and then you see that there are three world championship within the same commercialization structure on a grand Prix of motorbikes, you see three world championship three races and this is a similar idea.
00;16;30;29 - 00;16;59;24
Speaker 4
We will have different world championship within the World tour. Like in athletics you have different distances 100m. 1.5 K, 5000. All these. And of course. But the idea is to group all these distances and, and allocate the different world championship within one big dragon tour, which will be commercialized on a unified way. And this is for the lead.
00;16;59;27 - 00;17;24;21
Speaker 4
And because there are two parts, the commercialization and the lead part. And of course we want there is room always for distance. There is room also for the Super League and the short distance. And this is a matter of reaching agreements. And that's why us as the governing body because as been known for profit and we can make that possibility happen.
00;17;24;23 - 00;17;49;27
Speaker 4
But of course faces we need to put it in place. We have had conversations with these two organizations and they know what we are doing. We are, as I said at the beginning, transparent with everyone. And the door will be always open for everyone to join the world tour and to commercialize together and created a bigger, even a bigger product on this.
00;17;49;29 - 00;18;15;04
Speaker 3
Yeah, no. And that sounds very exciting. Like like we said, it's definitely a problem that I think we've noticed and we applaud you for. Yeah, probably acknowledging one of the biggest problems within the sport from the business side of things and yes, working to eliminate it. So can I just confirm with the partnership with the PTO and World Triathlon?
00;18;15;04 - 00;18;44;23
Speaker 3
World triathlon will essentially, and I know it's not going to be as clear cut as I'm about to make it seem. However, World Triathlon will be more in charge of event operation, putting on the events around the world, and the PTO will essentially be more more so in charge of commercialization marketing of these events. And I understand it's not going to be as clear cut as that.
00;18;44;24 - 00;18;52;13
Speaker 3
However, there the strengths and weaknesses are there. The strengths of, I guess, both organizations.
00;18;52;15 - 00;19;14;20
Speaker 4
Not exactly what I don't. What we will do is will be the regulator. The governing body will be the ones who put the rules, will be the ones who offers it in terms of putting events in place. We have different local organizing committee around the world that will remain involved and in others, PTO will run the events and we will always be there helping.
00;19;14;20 - 00;19;44;25
Speaker 4
How to put events from a rule perspective technical operations. But we do not have the capacity to operate events directly from World Traveler. We never did that in the past. We always rely on local organizing committees and this will remain the same. Our role will be more the calendar to be sure everything is put correctly. The rules, the officiating and the anti-doping, all these parties.
00;19;44;25 - 00;20;18;12
Speaker 4
What we will do from World Triathlon, what an PTO will do, the commercialization on a broader sense, from the broadcasting to the sponsors to the social media, and also they will be also involved in the operational because of the model they are creating within our events. Because this we discuss about the elite part, but events now are going to become a big festival of the sport, and that's why we want to attract a big number of participants in together with the races.
00;20;18;17 - 00;20;33;23
Speaker 4
So on that side, the Toe is also involved on that operations and as we will be helping and assisting them to to happen on the best way for everyone who participates on these events. Yeah.
00;20;33;26 - 00;20;59;09
Speaker 3
That that I think the mass participation is such a big part of triathlon. That's why it's such an inclusive sport. Like everyone can be on the course at the same time at a lot of events. So could you explain the world to our structure from top to bottom? So at the moment where obviously a short course focused podcast, that's where we race at the moment and where athletes, you know, skin in the game.
00;20;59;11 - 00;21;24;21
Speaker 3
So we obviously already have the keys, the World Cups and then the Continental Cups. I know that now we've rebranded or you guys have rebrand to the P50 and then the challenger series. Can you let us know how that structure would work? Is it the exactly, exactly the same structure that it is now and will Conti cups still be around?
00;21;24;21 - 00;21;27;18
Speaker 3
Will that still be a thing?
00;21;27;21 - 00;21;56;04
Speaker 4
Of course the structure will be pretty similar from an export point of view. We changed the name. Why? Because we want to commercialize it better. Because as you can imagine, WTC s is impossible to commercialize. So that's why we move to T-50 to commercialize together with the T100 and that. And as you said, it will be 50 championships, which is what is today the World Challenge Championship Series as part of the World Championship, and then the second level, the World Cups.
00;21;56;06 - 00;22;21;01
Speaker 4
This is what we are discussing. It will be the T-50 challenger T54 Cup challenger. This is what is the discussion now about this. And of course below has to have the World Cups, the the continental cups because this is very important in the grass roots of the sport and the pyramid structure. We want to keep it. And this is how an athlete can start and the rankings will be remain similar.
00;22;21;03 - 00;23;06;13
Speaker 4
The only new thing about rankings is that we will create a ranking for each group, but that will take part on that. But from the leap point of view, we will have the same structure of the sport. We are not changing that part because this is thinking. But having said that, we are discussing with the continental and using the opportunity that we are putting in place the world tour, if it requires attention on that part, on how we located the continental championship, the Continental Cup, but I can guarantee that it will remain existing because the Continental Cups is a key event for the development of the sport in for any athlete and every athlete at
00;23;06;14 - 00;23;25;04
Speaker 4
national level, then Continental Cups, then today World Cups, and then the call is to reach to the World Championship. So the structure of the sport, it will not change. And of course if it changes to see if we can improve it and make it easier for for the athletes.
00;23;25;07 - 00;23;51;27
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's great clarification over those topics, especially like rankings with points. And that may be more of an athlete kind of topic who are in racing these races. So with this is I've seen that you've published that there will be around 100 events annually. What would the structure be for the T-50 championship and then the Challenge Contender Series?
00;23;51;27 - 00;24;08;11
Speaker 3
Sorry, would that be very similar to how many events are running at the moment for CS and World Cup? So I think there's about ten World Series races this year. And then I think there was published 20 World Cups. Would that be very similar?
00;24;08;13 - 00;24;34;16
Speaker 4
Correct. We will have ten events on the top and between 2025 second year events, that is approximately 3540. And then the T 100 will be that to reach the number of of 100, then we'll have to to add the continental championship, another five on our side. Then we are close to 40 then. So this is what is the discussion having.
00;24;34;16 - 00;24;46;22
Speaker 4
And and that's why we said it's around 100 events. Because on the 100 there will be another 50 events. So this is how it is a structure to to have him. Yeah.
00;24;46;24 - 00;25;28;08
Speaker 3
Yeah that's that's good. So and I guess one of the main objectives of coming together with and it was one of the things that we talked about this year was clashes of events and athletes having to decide whether between the T100 and the World Series, which was a massive talking point, is that a I guess, implementation plan that these these two events won't be on the same weekend, and that we can have potentially the best athletes that now athletes are racing between both distances, that they can race both the T100 and the T-50, like the simultaneous calendar.
00;25;28;11 - 00;25;57;16
Speaker 4
Yeah. The idea is not to have on the same weekend at 130 50. This is clear. It's not that easy because some venues, they have strong dates and it's not that easy. But yes, that's the goal is to have not to class in that same weekend the ways that we will have 20 weekends a year with the highest level of of events, and this will currently has a much more TV exposure.
00;25;57;23 - 00;26;34;18
Speaker 4
Of course, as you know, we think Atlas, they can do both years because it doesn't count. You don't need to do all events. You have to. It comes for five plus the finals. So that's how it will remain exactly similar because we understand Atlas could be injured. And also they can decide which events they prefer to go. But the idea is this of course we want the top athletes to be in all the events, at least on each of the World Championship, but it will remain the same structure as it is today in both the team 50 and 100.
00;26;34;19 - 00;26;53;08
Speaker 4
The main difference for the athletes on the T-50 will be that the prize money of the events will be raised to the level of the two 100, so this will be more attractive than 250. Put it at the same level because we have to be equal. And that was part of the negotiation with the PTO.
00;26;53;10 - 00;27;22;15
Speaker 3
Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's that's very impressive. And I think the financial side of the T100 was 100%, I think, an attraction for athletes to go off and race to the T 100. And I guess that that almost answers my next question that I was going to say how, as I guess for us short course fans, we love the Olympic distance, we love the sprint distance.
00;27;22;17 - 00;28;10;19
Speaker 3
And we have seen, for example, in Paris, our three male medalists. Hayden Wilde, Alex Yea, Leo Berger. We have not seen them on a lot of start lists this year. Is there a sorry in the last two years since Paris is there I guess. Any implementations on On Your Side into the world triathlon racing that might stop athletes from venturing off to go and run marathons, or go and go and do long distance to to keep them in our short course sport and hopefully have, you know, year round racing of the highest quality of athletes on the start line.
00;28;10;21 - 00;28;45;27
Speaker 4
Correct. This is something that we've seen. And of course, every athlete is free to decide what to do. But that's one of the reasons that we want to increase the prize money to make this series of events more attractive for them, and be sure that within triathlon, they can have a a way of living that is going to be as good as if they go to other disciplines or sports, because it's not only the increase of the prize money with the project that we have, we will increase the exposure of the TV broadcasting and the popularity of the events.
00;28;45;27 - 00;29;19;00
Speaker 4
So there's their responses. Will be more interested on having them racing in our events. This is the whole idea. And to be sure that we can have them in the, in our sport for, for the seasons, for every season, and until they decide to move to long distance, you know, with age, normally the normal pathways that athletes move to long distance and then they can move to the T 100 and then they can go to long distance if this is what they really want to achieve.
00;29;19;01 - 00;29;51;06
Speaker 4
But but yes, for sure, the whole idea is to create a bigger and and much more popular event that will guarantee a higher exposure and is not only for us is for them. Because if they are more popular, the sponsors will pay them more than the prize. Money is bigger, their popularity is bigger than federations. Their countries will be more interested on having them competing in these kids.
00;29;51;07 - 00;30;03;21
Speaker 4
And now that we started the Olympic qualification, we see everyone coming back. But but we want them to remain in the sport also on the year after the Olympic Games.
00;30;03;23 - 00;30;33;11
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. And that like I said, that was one of probably the key things that we had noticed in the year following the Olympics is there is so much variety of racing out there, and our athletes are so talented. They're able to go out and almost do whatever they want. With the increase in prize money at the T-50, like you said, it will match the T100.
00;30;33;12 - 00;30;53;08
Speaker 3
Is that going to have an effect then, on the challenger series and the continental races? Will that then increase at those levels as well? Will that start to trickle down and and have the same effect, or is it just for the T-50?
00;30;53;10 - 00;31;23;11
Speaker 4
For the moment for next year will be the T-50 championship, but we are analyzing for the long term and after the Olympic qualification finish, to implement an increase on the second tier of events and try to have a bigger attraction also on the second tier. But for next year, we'll do it only for the top events and the others will remain with the same prize money structure as it is for for these for this year.
00;31;23;18 - 00;31;35;23
Speaker 4
Of course, there are some events in that exceptionally, they want to pay more prize money, but they will be very specific exceptions. Okay.
00;31;35;25 - 00;32;04;02
Speaker 3
Going back maybe to the start of this year and it's the viewership around triathlon. We saw that triathlon live at the start of this year was free for a couple of World Cups. And then we also just saw in Al Jarreau that it was also free. Will the short course racing still be behind a paywall, unlike the T100, or will it all be free to air as a product?
00;32;04;05 - 00;32;26;26
Speaker 4
Well, this is a very good point, and this is one of the discussions because as you know, T100 is is for free. And and and the World Challenge Championship Series is behind the paywall on the main events. And of course we did these promotions and in Algeria we did this. What we are is analyzing the situation and understanding what is the best way to promote the sport.
00;32;26;27 - 00;32;57;23
Speaker 4
And these conversations are happening not only with the PTO is happening within from because in from is the is holding our rights of TV and and they are involved. We have a contract with him from till 2028. So we need to to involve. And this is the discussions that are happening these days actually within from PTO and us, to understand which one is the best way to go from January next year and which one will be the best way.
00;32;57;26 - 00;33;16;07
Speaker 4
And for sure, does it make sense to have three 100 open T-50 in a paper? So we have to unify these things. But this is the discussion we're having now at this moment. And this is something that is it has to come to unify in the same way.
00;33;16;08 - 00;33;28;19
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. So that's a TVC for next year. But do we have any more throughout this year that may be free to air.
00;33;28;21 - 00;33;52;09
Speaker 4
For the moment? No, because we are coming to the key part of the season, but we never know if one event we want to promote it. Of course I'll get up, but the cost is not really, I think one event caused if I'm not wrong, three three years dollars. So it's not a really barrier in that in the triathlon world to to watch an event and the whole season I think.
00;33;52;11 - 00;34;01;23
Speaker 4
So it's not it's not crazy amount but but as I said, is is under analysis and under revision of this.
00;34;01;26 - 00;34;37;17
Speaker 3
Yes. And for for I guess fans like Leighton and myself, we will we will happily pay that fee to to watch the race. I believe it is probably more targeted towards potentially casual casual fans who maybe trying to get into watching triathlon more. I know, like I would say later to myself, probably have friends and family that that would potentially watch if it was on a free to air.
00;34;37;20 - 00;35;05;10
Speaker 3
However. Yeah, maybe, maybe the being behind a paywall and having to pay. I think that can be a little bit of a, I guess a hindrance for some, some people getting on. It's exciting to hear that, you know, that's potentially going to be in the process of being removed, but completely understand I believe in it and it kind of needs to be commented on.
00;35;05;10 - 00;35;43;24
Speaker 3
I believe World Triathlon have put quite a bit of time and effort into enhancing the production of the World Triathlon Championship Series with brought on Belinda and Will as commentators who are doing a great, great job in commentary. The production of cameras on the ground, making sure that people who are viewing don't miss anything. Is that something that is still going to be a priority in the coming, coming years, trying to enhance that production as much as possible?
00;35;43;27 - 00;36;16;11
Speaker 4
Absolutely. This is something that we are working now and also defining with the PTO how we can improve and offer a better quality on the TV broadcasting and also on the graphics side, and provide more information during the races about what is happening. But going back to that to date, the structure is that the internet TV rights is with tried on live, but in front is selling the the linear TV rights to the regular TV broadcasters.
00;36;16;12 - 00;36;39;10
Speaker 4
And the goal is that normally every race is from a local point of view is what you do not regulated TV. We know that this has not been working out in the way that we were looking with that, because there are not many regular TV linear channels that they they show our events live. And that's why at the end channel I become more popular.
00;36;39;10 - 00;37;05;20
Speaker 4
But this is something that is also under analysis. We are now today on the way we can solve this part, but the quality of the graphics, how to follow the races is key. We need to improve on today. The technology is giving us a lot of opportunities to all the sport and also to reduce the cost, but also to show our sport in a better way.
00;37;05;22 - 00;37;34;16
Speaker 3
Now that's that's exciting and obviously laden and myself, where we're all the way over here in Australia. So to to be able to watch, watch the racing going on over in Europe and in other countries, it's very exciting for us. I think another, another aspect of this partnership and you spoke you touched on age group is we've touched on the elite elite athletes.
00;37;34;17 - 00;38;00;02
Speaker 3
I think the the next one that we just want to talk about is paratriathlon and how paratriathlon is going to be potentially included. How is paratriathlon, I guess, going to be part of this partnership? Is it the same way as the elites, or will they have their own separate, part to play in this partnership?
00;38;00;05 - 00;38;24;29
Speaker 4
Yes, but it is key for us and is key for World Triathlon at this moment. What we can guarantee is that the events that today have a paratriathlon event, together with the World Championships and the T-50, will remain exactly like that. And this is something that we have told, like Yokohama, like Abu Dhabi, they have a paratriathlon event that will remain.
00;38;25;06 - 00;38;50;24
Speaker 4
The final will always have the Paratriathlon World Championship included together with the other, because we want this to be inclusive, what at this moment and we really think is this new model works, it will be beneficial for everyone. And as it has happened today with our World Challenge Championship Series, we cannot force anyone to organize a paragraph long event.
00;38;50;26 - 00;39;11;26
Speaker 4
So this will remain exactly the same. But the difference is that if this new product and this new way of commercializing this product is going to work, we will have more resources and we will invest these resources in Atlanta. So this is but we need to be because I know there's a lot of questions about everyone wants. And let's jump in.
00;39;11;26 - 00;39;46;13
Speaker 4
In the same way, we have to be a little bit patient and being as able to make it a profitable. This because today, at the moment, we are in the investment phase with the PTO and once we make it profitable and this in the coming years. Be sure that paratriathlon and this will also give us an opportunity because since we will dedicate PTO, will dedicate the effort to commercialize our events, we will have more resources that we will dedicate it to, to paratriathlon and find it.
00;39;46;13 - 00;40;12;16
Speaker 4
And there are projects that we have for paratriathlon within. We are in the goal to create a development higher development program. And in this sense, we will develop the paratriathlon events and the sport because I don't really need to be developed. Why they are higher on that sense, at least until we can make it commercially viable.
00;40;12;18 - 00;40;42;09
Speaker 3
Yeah, I guess with the infancy of the collaboration and the world to our, you can't really predict too far ahead. But obviously if the world tour grows to such a massive rate, everything from the ground up is going to grow. So something I guess that's started in Australia is the payment of para athletes. Is that something that will potentially come in next year or in a couple of years for the athletes?
00;40;42;09 - 00;40;57;22
Speaker 3
I know that Australia is now offering medal, I guess, incentives and payments for athletes. That medal at these World Para Championship races. Would that be something that's given by World Triathlon in the future?
00;40;57;24 - 00;41;20;20
Speaker 4
We we did that something in the in the test event for Paris. We we started doing this for the moment. One of the key things that we need to be sure is that we strengthen our position within the Paralympic Games. One of the requirements of the Paralympic Games is a number of countries that we have inside the Paralympic Games.
00;41;20;27 - 00;41;49;19
Speaker 4
This is our biggest priority to be sure that we keep our presence within the Paralympic program. And one of the requirement is you need 30, 30 countries, 30 people coming into the Paralympic Games. This is key because we can have very strong countries in para, in paratriathlon, but if we don't reach the 30, yeah, we could put in our participation in the Paralympic Games.
00;41;49;20 - 00;42;12;03
Speaker 4
So this is our first priority for us to be sure that we are not in risk. And this is why we are working with a strong development programs to help these small nations or athletes from poor countries to be able to go to events, to be able to do the classification, which is the key thing that we need to guarantee now because we can offer prize money.
00;42;12;03 - 00;42;26;06
Speaker 4
But if we lose our presence there, this is this is not a good direction. So this is what we are trying. Also we are trying to to increase the TV.
00;42;26;09 - 00;42;56;08
Speaker 4
Broadcasting of the para events. Because then it will become more popular and we are investing resources there. Yeah. Today I don't actually we invest Olympic money into Paralympic in the paratriathlon and this is what we are doing. And that's why we we want to be sure that when we introduce the prize money, we cannot introduce the prize money in a different way that is in triathlon, as we have to do it the same way.
00;42;56;13 - 00;43;24;17
Speaker 4
And who pays the price money of of trial on events? The organizers, when we have asked the organizers, are you prepared to pay prize money to the athletes? For the moment it's not. They are not ready. So we need to grow the exposure of the sport that for the organizers, this is more attractive and we have to be on this pathway to run in that part and we are working on that.
00;43;24;17 - 00;43;51;18
Speaker 4
And as I said, if the tourists are successful and this and we will have more resources to invest in paratriathlon and be sure that we can start growing the sport of paratriathlon. And then for sure, the organizers and us will be able to to include and to to produce the prize money for, for the project that for sure they deserve it as much as they deserve it.
00;43;51;18 - 00;44;09;12
Speaker 4
But we need to make it sustainable. Not that we ask prize money for part alone. And organizers said, okay, in that conditions I cannot organize the event and then we start losing because for the moment, we don't have that big number of events on paratriathlon and this is what we're working on more.
00;44;09;16 - 00;44;38;22
Speaker 3
Yeah. So obviously investment in the whole sphere of paratriathlon before and building that solid foundation before then potentially rewarding the top elites of paratriathlon, which is I guess you have to build the base first. Yes. Yeah. Correct. Moving on from paratriathlon, and it's obviously a massive boom at the moment. It's exploded globally. It's high rocks. Lock is done a high rocks event.
00;44;38;22 - 00;44;44;28
Speaker 3
So he's a he's a hybrid rock star not successfully not successfully.
00;44;45;00 - 00;44;47;03
Speaker 4
So you finish.
00;44;47;05 - 00;45;04;00
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thank you. How did the partnership and World Triathlon with World Triathlon and Higher Ox come about? Because it's it is a massive boom of a sport and it is a multi-sport just like triathlon. So I feel as if it is a great fit.
00;45;04;03 - 00;45;47;17
Speaker 4
Yes. It was a conversation with the owners of this company who put in place these events and who created this massive and new discipline and and in conversations with them, we we found that common interest is like we can help you on, on on helping you to grow sustainable for the future. In terms of officiating regulation, there are a lot of comments about officiating there because he's is and you have done one is subjected to the the different workouts properly or you have to repeat it or you have to do this so we can help them on that.
00;45;47;17 - 00;46;17;28
Speaker 4
We can start introducing them. In the sport world today, a hierarchy is more leisure sport activity that without an organized event structure and this is what we can bring it to them. Also, with the aspiration to be one day inside the Olympic Games, that is a good help. But this is again, it's a massive mass participation event and it's massive.
00;46;17;29 - 00;46;42;22
Speaker 4
The numbers that are getting is is amazing. And this is a way for for us for workshops and, and our national federations to engage with these new athletes and to engage with them with this new sport movement. And this is something that we have to be dealing with this in a different way that we are dealing with triathlon, because people who compete on a hierarchies, they don't, they want things.
00;46;42;22 - 00;47;07;13
Speaker 4
Simple is when you enter A5K run in any place in the world, you don't want to have a light and medical check and all these things. If it is complicated, look, I'm not interested anymore. So we have to reach and to see how we can engage with this, guaranteeing that that again, the events we we want that events are safe, a fair and and clean.
00;47;07;13 - 00;47;31;18
Speaker 4
And this is what we can bring to this new discipline. And of course, we are in conversations with them, the possibility of doing these new new event. We created the name of the sport called Athlon. And this is something that which is hybrid racing. So it's something that we need to do that and hierarchy is a type of of those events.
00;47;31;18 - 00;47;35;00
Speaker 4
And this is what we have to keep growing on that.
00;47;35;04 - 00;48;06;26
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it is it is obviously a very exciting collaboration between High Rocks and World Triathlon. Having having done one myself, it is it is very tough. And the boom. Like Layton said, the boom within the high rocks world is quite phenomenal. So is essentially what one of one of the goals with high rocks becoming a multi-sport or becoming part of the World Triathlon family.
00;48;06;27 - 00;48;38;26
Speaker 3
Are we going to see more of an elite, I guess, global championships, similar to the structure of what is currently the World Triathlon Champion Series or a World Cup racing, are we in any way looking at essentially separating the age group from the elites, having clear racing, clear competition structures similar to what we have in triathlon?
00;48;38;29 - 00;48;59;28
Speaker 4
Yes, they actually have the elite tour, but this is one of the goals is to make it, because if we want to be part of the Olympic Games, we have to strain that part on the match participation. They are amazing. And then this is something clear. But on the lead part, we need to strain that part to make it more popular to be seen on TV, to be.
00;49;00;03 - 00;49;32;28
Speaker 4
And this is the part that we can work with them, with the goal of being part of the Olympic Games, and also for us to engage, of course, the mass participation and the new way how the sport world is moving in our societies is something important also for us to be engaged with these strong sport movements. And this is what is also new for us to be engaging with all these new age group participants and before World Triathlon or ITU were never involved on much participation events.
00;49;32;28 - 00;50;04;01
Speaker 4
But now we have seen that if we want to be really engage with the sport and the sport movement today in our society, we need to be part of that because this is our sport and we are the governing body of the sport, not only of the sport. And this is what is another transformation we are doing within World Triathlon to be the governing body, also in the mass participation and to help these private organizers to do it better, and where we can provide our expertise to help them on doing that.
00;50;04;03 - 00;50;30;07
Speaker 3
And that's very cool in getting high rocks to the Olympics. I know you've stated a couple of things that potentially needs to take place. First, what are the key for those that might not know what they are? What are the key changes that needs to be made for, let's say hi rocks to be a part of Los Angeles 2028 Olympics.
00;50;30;07 - 00;50;34;20
Speaker 3
What are some of the key changes? Or Brisbane 32.
00;50;34;23 - 00;50;37;07
Speaker 4
Los Angeles. The program is closed, so.
00;50;37;09 - 00;50;40;03
Speaker 3
Oh sorry, sorry. 32.
00;50;40;06 - 00;51;03;27
Speaker 4
So there's a discussion with the IOC. And the thing is that to get into the Olympic program, you have to come to an international federation that is recognized by the International Olympic Committee. And that's why we can be the pathway to get in for heroes and into the Olympic Games. But first we need to create our event. We have to show that, see, this is attractive.
00;51;04;00 - 00;51;29;04
Speaker 4
Our goal, and my goal is we want to put new events in the Olympic program. We have to show that it has these new events and that include the T 100 also that we are requesting to be part of the Brisbane Games. But they have to bring value to the Olympic program and that's why we have to show to to the IOC that I wrote as a new discipline.
00;51;29;06 - 00;51;47;03
Speaker 4
And 100 is a new medal event in the sport of triathlon. Bring value because otherwise we compete with the others, but in equal conditions. And I want to have a different approach, which is we propose events that they have commercial value. Yeah.
00;51;47;06 - 00;52;19;21
Speaker 3
Yeah I guess, yeah. Commercial value. And for an Olympics which is built upon massive commercial value, is such a structure and T100 going into the Olympics. So back to potentially T100, as you mentioned, getting a T100 event, a long course event into the Olympics. Would that work through at the moment? T100 an invitational event, and it's the top 20 athletes in the world that are invited to an event.
00;52;19;21 - 00;52;42;21
Speaker 3
Unlike the World Triathlon Series, which is nominated by your national federations, will we see the T100 change to a national federation standpoint like the Olympic pathway, or will it stay potentially, as I guess, free agents of like the athletes of free agents that can race the T100.
00;52;42;23 - 00;53;09;02
Speaker 4
And it would be based on it will not change. The T 100 will remain as it is for the Atlas and different the athletes. They are entered by the national federations, but they don't do not compete in the national uniform. Yeah, this is the main difference. But of course step by step will be moving by ranking. And of course if you want to be part of the Olympic Games you have to qualify and you qualify competing.
00;53;09;10 - 00;53;33;09
Speaker 4
I always said we have to do our homework first before we want to be in the Olympic program. Yeah, cannot work the other way around that come and rescue and sport. And this is with the revision that is doing of the new program. This is not going to work it work in the past. So that's why we want to to be sure that we are able to offer something.
00;53;33;16 - 00;53;55;13
Speaker 4
We are very lucky that the only be games in 32 is in Brisbane and in the Gold Coast, which is a travel on. It's a home of the trade and it's one of the key locations for travel worldwide. And the city and Queensland government are really engaged with the triathlon. And we have AT1 hundred event in the Gold Coast.
00;53;55;14 - 00;54;16;19
Speaker 4
So this is is great for us and it's a great support. And if we work all together, I'm pretty positive if together as a government and the coast, we work for having 100, I think we have good chances to succeed, but that's depending on the IOC, not only on us.
00;54;16;21 - 00;54;37;15
Speaker 3
Yes, and obviously the T100 that went ahead this year, the women's race on the Gold Coast seemed very successful. We saw some of the some of the best athletes in the in the world getting around on the Gold Coast, which was very exciting for for all of us who live on the Gold Coast. Layton and I are on the Gold Coast ourselves.
00;54;37;15 - 00;54;47;12
Speaker 3
And yeah, it was it was very, very special to have a triumph on race of that level racing in our backyard.
00;54;47;15 - 00;55;13;04
Speaker 3
Having the T100 potentially in the Olympic Games, does that open doors for I, I would say that it wouldn't be happening potentially in Brisbane. 32 as we I would say you would have your hands full with the T100 itself, but potentially those shorter distances. Like we said before, Super League, Super League had a very big boom in the past.
00;55;13;09 - 00;55;24;26
Speaker 3
Is there a potential for an even shorter distances like that, being in an Olympic Games in the future?
00;55;24;29 - 00;56;00;03
Speaker 4
Long term? Why not? But as I said, our strategy is to to show to the IOC that the events that we are proposing have something to to contribute to the Olympic program. And in terms so, as I said, we do have to do our homework first in home. And with the New Zealand world tour with the 100 already included, we are in step ahead on the other distances because there is going to be a big investment on the on this part and this is going to help to grow this discipline.
00;56;00;03 - 00;56;47;09
Speaker 4
And that's why I said at the beginning in the world to the shorter distance is welcome also to add a new world Championship title there and then. But we need to build the event that we are proposing to the IOC to be part of the Olympic program. And as I said, having achieved 100 in in the Gold Coast, which is the venue of challenge for the Brisbane 32 games, is is a plus and is that and for the moment we don't have a Super League event in the Gold Coast or in Brisbane and that's why things are moving natural more at this moment for the 100 and for the shorter distance.
00;56;47;11 - 00;57;27;18
Speaker 3
Yeah. And obviously it would be a very big ask to bring on two new distances into the Olympic Games in what is less than eight years away. This is this is, I guess, not potentially my opinion, but just a thought on having now multiple distances within and that as if this goes ahead, having multiple distances within the sport of triathlon at the Olympics, do you think that that might potentially dilute the quality within the Olympic distance?
00;57;27;19 - 00;57;47;26
Speaker 3
Say we have a Hayden Wild and Leo Burger going and racing a T100 and solely focusing on the T100 that then potentially takes two very big hitters out out of the T-50 distance. Is that a potential problem that we might see?
00;57;47;28 - 00;58;18;17
Speaker 4
I don't think so. We our presence in the Olympic Games is not that big. If you compare us with aquatics, with with athletics, with the numerous distance and athletes that they are able to win two medals, the 100m, the 200m, for example, the 5000 to 10,000. So we don't think so is our presence in the Olympic Games is not that big that we can dilute one from the other?
00;58;18;17 - 00;58;47;14
Speaker 4
I think it will be the opposite. One will complement the other, and this is a bigger opportunity for the athletes to be more famous. And of course, both. The one is the Olympic distance and the other one will be more the two 100 distance. And this is something that is because what is important is that it will not be the distance is the 100 distance or the T-50 distance.
00;58;47;15 - 00;59;11;14
Speaker 4
Yeah. This is the moment we are doing on the sport. So is is how we gonna show it. But I think it will help us. Actually I think our T-50 World Championship will grow. And being today in the Olympic Games and been in Los Angeles, it will grow their importance and it will commercialize better together with the PTO.
00;59;11;17 - 00;59;22;13
Speaker 4
It will help us to grow the these events more in popularity than any other distance.
00;59;22;15 - 00;59;52;08
Speaker 3
Finally, a bit of a hot topic that's gone around from the latest WTS event was Al Jarreau, and we just wanted to get maybe your take on it was the moment and it was probably the most talked about moment of the race was the moment between Jean Le here and Lisa Turk with throwing of the water bottle. What would come out of that if that event may occur again?
00;59;52;09 - 01;00;08;01
Speaker 3
Like, is that something that maybe the committee, you know, has a chat with an athlete or what would happen over if this potentially comes a regular occurrence in events?
01;00;08;03 - 01;00;39;14
Speaker 4
Well, I don't think this is going to happen again. I think our athletes, they behave properly in all races and, and and of course we saw how big that went on the social media. And I'm for sure we don't think this is the way the sport should go. But what we think is, I'm sure the athletes are, they will talk each other and they will and and they will act in the in the field of play accordingly to how they have done it.
01;00;39;14 - 01;00;58;19
Speaker 4
Because these athletes, they have been competing among each other for the last years. So it's not that they are new and this is something new that that that happened. And we think this is something very isolated situation or incident. And we don't think this will this will happen again.
01;00;58;25 - 01;01;23;26
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. We agree as well. Like we don't think that that's ever going to have. And it's not really a sport where anything like that happens often. Maybe if we just wrap up with a couple of quick fire questions, just short fire. What's your first answer off the top of your dome. So what is your favorite race on the calendar so far?
01;01;23;29 - 01;01;52;15
Speaker 4
Not easy. Not an easy question. I will say always. The final is something very special because of how many athletes and what we created there. Because it's a big with 5000 age group is coming to the final, the paratriathlon, the juniors, the under 23. For me, always the final event is is the favorite of the year is always is always key on on the regular basis.
01;01;52;15 - 01;02;10;21
Speaker 4
I like the races have been for us. Like Hamburg I will say could be very strong races for me now is becoming additional but I will take Hamburg, Yokohama, a very special events in our in our calendar.
01;02;10;24 - 01;02;29;19
Speaker 3
Yes, I think, I think we tend to agree we're very, very big fan favorites of the ones that are all year round. There, there. Sorry, but every year the Yokohama, Hamburg, they've got a bit of history within the sport. Now, what do you think is one city in the world that deserves a race on the world tour?
01;02;29;21 - 01;02;32;10
Speaker 4
I think there are plenty of cities in this. In this sense.
01;02;32;10 - 01;02;34;10
Speaker 3
It's a tricky one.
01;02;34;12 - 01;02;58;05
Speaker 4
And if we'd like to have a for sure the Gold Coast or Sydney part of the of the world. So this is two cities, I will say that and we will be there because the Olympics are happening in the Gold Coast for sure and for sure. Sydney, I think being the race that when we started our Olympic history.
01;02;58;08 - 01;03;01;26
Speaker 4
We decided to have a event.
01;03;02;03 - 01;03;11;00
Speaker 3
Okay, who is the most exciting athlete leading into LA? Male and female. Who's the most exciting.
01;03;11;02 - 01;03;39;01
Speaker 4
To reach? To reach one? I think I can always mention, I think as a on the female side is Cassandra, the the, the one that we can see today and and on the male side, of course, Alex Hayden. And of course I want to mention one from my country that we can tell. Hopefully he will be able to perform well.
01;03;39;02 - 01;03;42;21
Speaker 4
But of course our Max, our world champion.
01;03;42;23 - 01;03;46;16
Speaker 3
We can't forget those. We were waiting for it.
01;03;46;18 - 01;03;58;18
Speaker 4
For sure. He's he's our world champion, is an extraordinarily athlete. And with Alex and Hayden the three favorites. But I hope that it will jump onto this group also soon.
01;03;58;19 - 01;04;23;27
Speaker 3
There's no doubt David has been he's been very impressive over the coming years. What is the biggest. And this might be a bit of a tricky one, but what is the biggest challenge facing the sport of triathlon right now? We'll stick with short course triathlon just so that it's not too large. But yes. What is the biggest challenge facing short course trial on right now?
01;04;24;00 - 01;04;45;28
Speaker 4
I think we do not have biggest challenge. We have huge opportunities in front of us. With the new partnership with the PTO and the creation of the challenger to what we have in front of ISIS. A huge opportunity and I don't see it as a challenge. I see it as a big opportunity, and we have to try to make it happen and and to succeed on that.
01;04;45;28 - 01;05;02;20
Speaker 4
And that's how I see the short and the Olympic distance and the sprint distance future, because I see that now that we have been able to reach with the commercial partners and the commercial people that are in the sport, we have a huge opportunity to grow.
01;05;02;22 - 01;05;11;07
Speaker 3
Yeah. And next one was and our final one, where do you believe the sport is in ten years. So 2036.
01;05;11;10 - 01;05;12;29
Speaker 4
Whereas I will like.
01;05;13;01 - 01;05;14;27
Speaker 3
The big vision.
01;05;14;29 - 01;05;18;12
Speaker 4
As as his golf today or tennis today.
01;05;18;17 - 01;05;52;11
Speaker 3
Okay. So one of the real majors real iconic sport. Well I think that wraps up our interview with you, Antonio. It's been a pleasure to have you on. We're quite honored as just two athletes from Australia that have a podcast to get the president of World Triathlon on. So yeah, we appreciate your time and we look forward to seeing, you know, the world tour next year and everything you're doing with World Triathlon and making it a better place for not only people watching the sport, but athletes ourselves.
01;05;52;11 - 01;05;55;11
Speaker 3
So we thank you for that.
01;05;55;13 - 01;05;59;12
Speaker 4
Thank you very much. Both. And any time you want we can catch up again.
01;05;59;14 - 01;06;00;20
Speaker 3
Cheers. Thank you.
01;06;00;21 - 01;06;08;08
Speaker 4
Thank you for having a podcast for triathlon. This is great. And thank you for for helping the sport to be more popular.
01;06;08;10 - 01;06;14;04
Speaker 3
That's what it's all about, isn't it? And we're doing our best. We're doing our best. Have a crack. Thank you.
01;06;14;05 - 01;06;14;15
Speaker 4
Thank you.
01;06;14;15 - 01;06;15;22
Speaker 3
Very much. Thanks, guys.
01;06;15;22 - 01;06;17;09
Speaker 4
Thank you, thank you.