Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Stacey Flaster and Dori Goldman are two ladies obsessed with cults and true crime. Join them as they take us into the depths of some of the most notorious cults, crimes, and killers that the world has ever known. They consume content and ask deep dark questions that only a certified expert can answer... enter Dr. John Mayer. Dr. John is an internationally known Forensic Psychologist and expert on violent behavior and crime prevention, with 35 years of experience consulting to law enforcement and testifying in hundreds of court cases as an expert witness. He is the "Real Deal" and will help Stacey and Dori get to the bottom of of their curious criminal minds.
00:00:12:25 - 00:00:18:14
Stacey/Dori
content warning this episode discusses sexual abuse, including abuse of minors.
00:00:18:16 - 00:00:53:14
Stacey/Dori
Listener discretion is advised. For decades, the outside world barely got a glimpse inside. Then one day, the police showed up. That's the turning point in Gloriavale story, a Christian commune in New Zealand's South Island. The founder, Neville Cooper, who called himself hopeful Christian, built the whole system on obedience, sacrifice and total control. But allegations of sexual abuse led to a raid on the property that led to hopeful Christian's fall.
00:00:53:17 - 00:01:19:21
Stacey/Dori
This week we're covering devotion, obedience or betrayal, the three part Paramount+ docu series The Community didn't disappear when he fell. It's still there, still governed by many of the same rules. So today we're asking when the founder of a system like this finally goes down, does the system go down with him, or does it just keep running without him?
00:01:19:23 - 00:01:22:07
Stacey/Dori
Let's get into it.
00:01:22:09 - 00:01:28:28
Speaker 1
Outside my window.
00:01:29:01 - 00:01:32:03
Speaker 1
Who
00:01:32:05 - 00:01:35:08
Speaker 1
When the wind
00:01:35:11 - 00:01:40:13
Speaker 1
in. I feel pain.
00:01:40:15 - 00:01:50:13
Speaker 1
every.
00:01:50:16 - 00:01:54:18
Speaker 1
May.
00:01:54:21 - 00:02:19:13
Stacey/Dori
that's your catchphrase, Stacey. Let's get into it. Which I did not I did not coin, but I will use it as my catchphrase. Yeah, Merc. Yeah, and let's get into it. Let's just say I think people can now see us right? This is. This is who we are. Everybody. Yeah, I know you were wondering, I put on a special face of makeup today.
00:02:19:13 - 00:02:43:13
Stacey/Dori
If anybody wants to know anything about my blush or lipstick or anything like that, you can, you can ask on, online. Oh, she's now an influencer. Everybody. I'm an influencer. Yeah. Not just a podcast co-host, but she's also an influencer. I am, Dory. So was this your pick? I yes, so I yes, I did choose this.
00:02:43:16 - 00:03:09:14
Stacey/Dori
And I do have a controversial opinion on this. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Well you know we we are we obviously watch a lot of cults and yes, you know a lot of documentaries on these cults. Okay. I don't think this is the worst cult in the world. I, it's not who I thought the people were.
00:03:09:16 - 00:03:12:26
Stacey/Dori
Very nice, and.
00:03:12:29 - 00:03:16:20
Dori
They were the dudes for really.
00:03:16:22 - 00:03:38:15
Stacey/Dori
Really hot. Wow. Are we looking at. I mean, do you think that some of them are available? I don't call me. Hey, hey. Oh, wait, that's my non improv. Call me. It would. Oh call me because that's the real me. Well right. But you know when kids, when kids do call me, they don't understand this. Like what this like to this, you know.
00:03:38:15 - 00:03:59:06
Stacey/Dori
And then they think it's this. It's that. Hang loose. What is that? Oh, yeah. Hang when you said it, but I dropped my cord. You. Oh, she's all right. Okay. I'm back, I'm back. I just dropped you. You were shaking your head in agreement when I said that. They're not the worst cult in the world. They seem pretty nice.
00:03:59:08 - 00:04:23:24
Stacey/Dori
Well, I think, you know, we've we have studied Mormon, you know, the FLDS, the Warren Jeffs, the IBP with the Duggars and others. And, you know, we haven't done Scientology yet, but, you know, all of these, cults have something in common. They isolate their people. They seem very they don't seem to have, an opinion of their own.
00:04:23:24 - 00:04:49:12
Stacey/Dori
They don't know what their gut instinct really is because they're told not to follow it. It's a group mentality. You're correct. This isn't as bad. But it felt sterile, like it felt I don't know, you know, they said that those dresses, those blue dresses were were that's what Handmaid's Tale was based on. That sort of like look that they all have.
00:04:49:12 - 00:05:17:29
Stacey/Dori
That's the same. I don't know. I mean, I guess, you know, are you thinking there wasn't enough enough child. No. I mean, there was definitely pedophilia. Like, that's terrible of, you know, like abusing children, but I'm just going to say it didn't sound like it was rampant. I believe they are a cult 100%. Yeah. It's not like I want to go there and join.
00:05:17:29 - 00:05:49:07
Stacey/Dori
Although I wouldn't mind, like if I'm ever in New Zealand, like popping by and like, just want to pop by. Yeah, just check it out. But I don't think that it it it seemed to me yes, it's group mind but the people I guess that they chose to speak in the documentary were very nice, were very intelligent. And I think what they were saying is you know, I get it, like a lot of these say like, leave us alone, we're doing okay.
00:05:49:07 - 00:06:16:08
Stacey/Dori
But I don't know, maybe I missed it. Yes. There's always bad actors in every, you know, in every commune and every cult. But it didn't seem like to me there was rampant abuse, although they do show all those videos of those kids doing manual labor like that, where I don't agree, like they all are cooking and cleaning when they're four years old that I'm.
00:06:16:12 - 00:06:38:26
Stacey/Dori
But what about their schooling? There was one woman and John always knows the names of them. That was extremely intelligent and very she was really defensive. She was calm, I think. Yeah. Oh, I had her, list. You know, she was saying, you know, this is our way of life. We love this. And please don't, you know, assume or judge us.
00:06:38:28 - 00:06:58:27
Stacey/Dori
But I've heard that, you know, I've heard I've heard that before. And if you don't know anything else, how are you supposed to know what's out there if you haven't experienced it? I think what happens is they get used to this sort of, like, insulated life, like, you know, protected life, whether they're being abused or not.
00:06:58:29 - 00:07:16:17
Stacey/Dori
And they just are afraid. Leanne. Thank you. John. Oh, I love always a whiteboard, even though we can see them. But he's still behind a glass wall. We're gonna have to break it down to get him in. So he might never see him, but we're just going to burst. Bubble. Yes, exactly. And remember, this is the green room that he's in.
00:07:16:17 - 00:07:40:10
Stacey/Dori
Even though it looks white in the background, it's a green room. Maybe he's colorblind. We can see that might be. That might be the case. So, you know, I guess, yes. Comparatively it's not. It wasn't as bad. And people can see I'm making quotes as maybe the Warren Jeffs. But they're, they're defensive. They, you know, they're defensive.
00:07:40:12 - 00:08:04:13
Stacey/Dori
I don't love the idea of using kids to, you know, do manual labor and clean the house and clean the toilets and make the janitor and and take care of the other kids. I mean, it's like a it's a commune. I don't think you know, is it? Let me ask you something. Dory is a kibbutz. Oh, yeah. Kibbutz in Israel.
00:08:04:16 - 00:08:23:14
Stacey/Dori
Yeah. But is a kibbutz similar to this kind of thing, or is it more like. Is it free thinking? I mean, can you have your own mind? Can you go outside? Can you? They have found your. Oh, you mean the Gloriavale people have the. They did. Yeah. We found out from John that Yann and Leanne has had a course.
00:08:23:14 - 00:08:47:23
Stacey/Dori
We had a form on her phone. Yeah, right. Right. That's her birds. Yeah. You do have your own mind, but it is like you. You all work together for a cause. But I think what's different, like with a lot of these cults, are it is like young marriage. It is. Your goal is to marry and to have a bunch of kids, which that's not my jam.
00:08:47:25 - 00:09:12:05
Stacey/Dori
But, again, I'm not like, I'm not like a total stand for these people. Like, don't get me wrong, I just felt that I thought that the people who left, that they interviewed and I got it, like hopeful Christian son who was like, I got to get out of here. I do feel it's a lot of people thinking for themselves and being like, this is not for me.
00:09:12:05 - 00:09:41:09
Stacey/Dori
That's what I got from this one. From the other ones, I felt like it was like horrible. Like you would get canceled and Suppressive Person if you're thinking psychology. Yeah. Like, yeah, well, they felt like the people who left definitely did not want that lifestyle anymore. They did not believe that the one guy whose father was abuse of a child molester, like that guy, obviously, like he was really scary, didn't he?
00:09:41:12 - 00:10:13:14
Stacey/Dori
Yeah. Like, that's. Yeah. I mean, I can't get around his son. I felt so bad for him. Yeah. Because, you know, he's, like, embarrassed. And he's like, this is my father. And, you know, isn't it? You know, I want to ask John this, but like, which comes first? Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Does the a do they create the group for the abuse or does the abuse happen because of what the group is?
00:10:13:17 - 00:10:53:17
Stacey/Dori
I that's a great question. That is a really it's I feel like I think from some of them, like the Mormons and the ideology, I did get that it was for. It's not like they consciously said, let's create this group. It was for marriage of young women and, you know, babies and everything. Yes, yes. But I again, I didn't get that necessarily, although hopeful Christian that Neville Cooper guy sounded like yeah, maybe he did like when you when, when one person puts in rules.
00:10:53:17 - 00:11:22:14
Stacey/Dori
Right. Like, okay everybody, we're going to now marry as many people as you can, have as many babies as you can. But this one, it didn't sound like we're sharing a ton of wives, right? Like you just keep it. It wasn't polygamy, it just wasn't Mormon. And children have 20 children. Like, just start banging it out. Have you heard any good news from people?
00:11:22:14 - 00:11:51:26
Stacey/Dori
Have you heard anything good from a family who has that like 19 children? 18, 15? It's always it's always a religious, so-called religious group. Now, in my opinion, I'm gonna say something that might be a little, I don't know, maybe people will think I'm wrong. I don't think any of these groups we've ever discussed have anything to do with Jesus.
00:11:51:29 - 00:11:52:25
Stacey/Dori
No.
00:11:52:27 - 00:11:54:21
Dori
What what?
00:11:54:23 - 00:12:20:05
Stacey/Dori
You know, I mean, sorry, I don't I don't there's nothing Jesus like and there's nothing Christian to me. It's just an excuse to use it as a weapon and to, you know, do whatever to excuse anything. I think we have we are choosing to follow Jesus. I know, and it's, you know, the more I, the more I see things around the world.
00:12:20:07 - 00:12:42:03
Stacey/Dori
I start to think, wow, we are not talking about Christianity here. We're not talking about the real Christianity where we look at Jesus's teachings and we follow those teachings because he wants to feed the poor and hungry, help the sick and old, help people, help people along the way, help the anyone. And this, these groups of people. Do you see?
00:12:42:03 - 00:13:08:09
Stacey/Dori
They're all like these white. Pasty looking people. Pasty. You know what I. I actually believe this is, speaking of white pasty people and WW JD, what would John do? Oh, I thought you were saying JD dance. I'm like, you know, I think that's a good segway to bring in. I want pasty. That'll be up to you, JD.
00:13:08:09 - 00:13:11:07
Stacey/Dori
Yeah, I was saying, doctor,
00:13:11:11 - 00:13:16:09
Unknown
Oh. They.
00:13:16:12 - 00:13:21:03
Stacey/Dori
our white pasty JD with the bow tie. So sweet. His wife got him dressed.
00:13:21:06 - 00:13:25:02
Dr. John Mayer
They, you know, you know. And. Come on, I'm the only one that dressed up for.
00:13:25:07 - 00:13:27:23
Dori
So I look at this.
00:13:27:25 - 00:13:30:07
Stacey/Dori
Look at this. I can't say my makeup. Look at me.
00:13:30:11 - 00:13:32:06
Dori
Like. Well, I thought you were the worst.
00:13:32:06 - 00:13:34:09
Stacey/Dori
You're going to die here, Doris.
00:13:34:10 - 00:13:37:19
Dr. John Mayer
Where is your gowns? And and our. Our producer.
00:13:37:20 - 00:13:42:28
Dori
My gown. Look at this. Yeah, look at him, Jeremy. You know, let me look at the coffee roll.
00:13:43:01 - 00:13:44:25
Stacey/Dori
Wait a second. Jeremy. Got that.
00:13:44:25 - 00:13:45:18
Dori
For you? Yeah.
00:13:45:19 - 00:13:50:01
Stacey/Dori
How come we don't get that cinnamon roll? Is that a coffee roll? Would we call it a cinnamon roll?
00:13:50:01 - 00:13:51:06
Dori
Here it is.
00:13:51:08 - 00:13:53:27
Dr. John Mayer
Because you don't have to wait until the green room while you die.
00:13:53:29 - 00:13:54:10
Stacey/Dori
Is that.
00:13:54:10 - 00:13:54:22
Dori
Good?
00:13:54:29 - 00:13:58:09
Dr. John Mayer
I do, and you're brilliant. It's delicious.
00:13:58:11 - 00:14:05:17
Stacey/Dori
It looks so. Is it warm coffee with a cup of coffee? Oh, like I like your coffee cup. You've showed me that. Wait, is there a chip in your cup? Yes.
00:14:05:17 - 00:14:07:04
Dr. John Mayer
No, that's a little lip. I don't.
00:14:07:04 - 00:14:07:20
Dori
Know, like, ready.
00:14:07:21 - 00:14:09:21
Stacey/Dori
To drink? I asked, that.
00:14:09:24 - 00:14:10:16
Dr. John Mayer
Was the support the.
00:14:10:16 - 00:14:12:18
Dori
Coffee in your mouth or what? I don't know, I didn't want.
00:14:12:18 - 00:14:14:16
Stacey/Dori
His lip to be broken. All right.
00:14:14:16 - 00:14:17:17
Dr. John Mayer
Another pardon me while I tidy up.
00:14:17:19 - 00:14:24:20
Stacey/Dori
Yes, John. And yes, Jeremy. We have our beautiful producer Jeremy on this episode. Yeah. Be.
00:14:24:22 - 00:14:26:04
Dr. John Mayer
On our episodes from now.
00:14:26:04 - 00:14:27:02
Dori
Mazing. You know.
00:14:27:02 - 00:14:30:20
Dr. John Mayer
He's been in the background now he's out of the closet as well.
00:14:30:22 - 00:14:36:25
Stacey/Dori
Oh, yes, he is. Sorry. Oh, I'm sorry Jeremy. Okay, now you talk John.
00:14:36:28 - 00:14:38:01
Dori
About, well.
00:14:38:03 - 00:14:40:13
Stacey/Dori
What you think of what we're saying.
00:14:40:16 - 00:14:41:20
Dr. John Mayer
Where do you want me to start?
00:14:41:20 - 00:14:42:17
Dori
This, I don't know.
00:14:42:19 - 00:14:47:01
Dr. John Mayer
Is, as always, you both stimulate me to, you know.
00:14:47:03 - 00:14:51:27
Stacey/Dori
You suck your head when I said that the dudes were attractive and you started well, I.
00:14:51:27 - 00:14:52:12
Dori
Knew.
00:14:52:14 - 00:14:54:24
Dr. John Mayer
I knew one fella that I know you.
00:14:54:24 - 00:14:56:02
Dori
Had jealous of talent.
00:14:56:05 - 00:14:57:19
Dr. John Mayer
That guy with a great.
00:14:57:20 - 00:15:02:28
Dori
That's that's just hugely fat that fast. You could have taken. No. The way that.
00:15:03:04 - 00:15:05:21
Stacey/Dori
The new head that the new shepherd, I thought.
00:15:05:21 - 00:15:08:11
Dori
Oh no, no, no younger guy. Really.
00:15:08:17 - 00:15:09:28
Dr. John Mayer
I thought he was very good looking.
00:15:09:28 - 00:15:11:07
Stacey/Dori
Oh the blond, the.
00:15:11:09 - 00:15:11:22
Dori
Blond.
00:15:11:22 - 00:15:12:08
Dr. John Mayer
Is a blond.
00:15:12:08 - 00:15:13:14
Dori
Like that was great.
00:15:13:17 - 00:15:19:06
Stacey/Dori
One 800 call to make sure he is looking. No, you were correct. You are correct.
00:15:19:07 - 00:15:21:07
Dr. John Mayer
That's. That's a Dory hottie right there.
00:15:21:07 - 00:15:24:15
Stacey/Dori
Yeah, he's the hottie. But also the new shepherd. I was into the new.
00:15:24:16 - 00:15:26:16
Dr. John Mayer
No, that new shepherd was a creep.
00:15:26:21 - 00:15:29:25
Stacey/Dori
Me like the new shepherd. Oh, okay.
00:15:29:27 - 00:15:30:22
Dori
I mean, it's all these.
00:15:30:22 - 00:15:31:22
Stacey/Dori
People out for the.
00:15:31:22 - 00:15:33:26
Dr. John Mayer
Third new shepherd. Because the second new show.
00:15:33:28 - 00:15:37:07
Dori
No, not the second. Yeah. No no, no, sorry.
00:15:37:10 - 00:15:39:23
Stacey/Dori
No, the new one. The new one.
00:15:39:24 - 00:16:06:03
Dr. John Mayer
Let me cut to the chase here. My co-hosts. First of all, I'm dying to comment. I disagree with both of you on, This the first time in what, 30 episodes that, you know, I did watch it, like, both of you can go, you know, Dorian Stacy really thought this was going to be a dynamic, you know, it was not okay, but I think it's the fault of the documentary.
00:16:06:05 - 00:16:10:18
Dr. John Mayer
I think the documentary didn't sell the abuse, and.
00:16:10:20 - 00:16:10:27
Dori
They.
00:16:10:27 - 00:16:12:03
Stacey/Dori
Cleaned it up.
00:16:12:05 - 00:16:30:27
Dr. John Mayer
I don't think they focused on it as much. And I think they presented. And I think they fell for how the, the these cult members were selling themselves, you know, it's it's our choice to be this. Well, every one of the cults that we've looked at, the, the people will say, well, it's my choice. I did this voluntarily.
00:16:30:27 - 00:16:50:06
Dr. John Mayer
You know, so I don't think I think it's the fault of the documentarians that they, didn't sell what was going on. Member. That one fella, valor, was his last name. Said when they asked him three times, were you abuses you name it. You name the type of abuse.
00:16:50:10 - 00:16:52:00
Dori
I forgot that, and it's true.
00:16:52:04 - 00:16:59:24
Stacey/Dori
True. But they also had the lawyer, and they have the journalist who have been speaking about the atrocities and saying yes.
00:16:59:26 - 00:17:01:24
Dori
So, like, I don't think.
00:17:01:24 - 00:17:21:28
Dr. John Mayer
They did a good job of of making that the focus of the documentary. And I think they, they did present the life as well. Yeah. There was times watching these three episodes, I was sitting there and yeah, it looks kind of nice. You don't have rent, you don't have to pay for food and etc., you know, and.
00:17:21:28 - 00:17:22:27
Stacey/Dori
Wear the same dress.
00:17:22:27 - 00:17:23:16
Dori
Every.
00:17:23:18 - 00:17:41:25
Dr. John Mayer
Year. Five year old child is building a house. You know, it's it's crazy. But, so I think what you both were coming on, commenting on is the result of the the way the documentary presented, which was an okay documentary, wasn't one of our best, I don't think.
00:17:41:27 - 00:17:43:08
Dori
No, you know, we know.
00:17:43:08 - 00:17:49:18
Stacey/Dori
But it was, you know, it was something, you know, to see this on Paramount+, so. Right. Exactly.
00:17:49:18 - 00:17:56:26
Dr. John Mayer
So, yeah. And I hate to comment and and maybe Jeremy, you take this out, but isn't Paramount+ just a pain in the ass? I mean.
00:17:56:27 - 00:17:58:08
Stacey/Dori
It is a little bit of a yes.
00:17:58:10 - 00:18:02:26
Dr. John Mayer
Commercial breaks it. It's hard to load.
00:18:02:28 - 00:18:03:06
Dori
Well.
00:18:03:06 - 00:18:07:22
Stacey/Dori
Yeah, I also get it on my phone. You can upgrade your payment on Paramount+.
00:18:07:29 - 00:18:12:18
Dr. John Mayer
Well, I did, and I'm going to cancel that today, you know? That's all right.
00:18:12:21 - 00:18:15:14
Stacey/Dori
Well, there you go. And I don't think we should take that on.
00:18:15:16 - 00:18:17:06
Dori
Okay. What's the potential for me.
00:18:17:06 - 00:18:19:29
Dr. John Mayer
To take that? You've you've said so many done.
00:18:20:04 - 00:18:35:26
Stacey/Dori
Why? You know, people defend these places they live in. They feel the need to defend why they're there. Because. Is it because they're just cognitive dissonance or are they just not experienced? Do they? Why does anybody need to live this way? Yeah. Why?
00:18:35:28 - 00:19:10:06
Dr. John Mayer
Well, I don't think anybody does. It has obviously its drawbacks because if you remember the the very first episode at the very beginning was how a Neville Cooper or what's his name, Hopeful Christian, was stressing, you have lost now your free will give your free will, give away your free will, you know. And that's the biggest thing that, and I think we face in these cults is that people are totally controlled and they lose their free will, but some people are okay with that, right?
00:19:10:09 - 00:19:35:05
Dr. John Mayer
Some people are like, okay, you make all the decisions for me. As long as I get fed, I have a roof over my head. I'm good. I don't think any one of us could live that way, and probably the majority of people can't live that way. That's why we live in the United States of America. We have freedoms, and we are able to do a lot of things that, people that are controlled can't do.
00:19:35:07 - 00:19:42:04
Stacey/Dori
But there are cults here, John. There are cults in the United States and people saying, we want our freedom, but it's the opposite of freedom.
00:19:42:04 - 00:19:42:15
Dori
Yeah.
00:19:42:17 - 00:20:12:03
Dr. John Mayer
Well, a lot of people we've said this in other episodes is a lot of people are. And I hinted at it just here a couple seconds ago. A lot of people are okay with that. You decide. For me what you know, I do, where I go, where I come, you know, look at Catholic priesthood, the military, you know, if you if you're a lifer in either one of those organizations, it's, you know, I'm sure we're going to get some letters on this, but it's a pretty cushy life.
00:20:12:03 - 00:20:16:29
Dr. John Mayer
You know, they tell me what to do. They tell me where to go. I get meals paid.
00:20:17:00 - 00:20:20:18
Stacey/Dori
We don't really have an address, so I don't think people are going to be sent.
00:20:20:20 - 00:20:21:04
Dori
Yeah.
00:20:21:04 - 00:20:23:16
Dr. John Mayer
We have an email, though on our website.
00:20:23:16 - 00:20:24:10
Dori
So if.
00:20:24:10 - 00:20:26:21
Stacey/Dori
People want to spend their time doing that, then they can do.
00:20:26:21 - 00:20:32:04
Dr. John Mayer
It. So Stacy, that's why in some letters, a lot of people that they don't want to make those choices.
00:20:32:09 - 00:20:35:16
Stacey/Dori
But they don't know of anything else because that's all they've known.
00:20:35:18 - 00:21:00:26
Dr. John Mayer
Exactly. Well, did you also catch one of the things that fueled the population of this group was the 80s. In all these people in the, you know, the hippie movement, they made a big deal about it, were flocking to find some meaning in their life, you know. And the guy who became, especially in the last two episodes, became kind of the spokesman that older fella.
00:21:00:29 - 00:21:01:24
Dori
Grandpa.
00:21:01:27 - 00:21:03:09
Stacey/Dori
Grandpa, I.
00:21:03:12 - 00:21:06:03
Dr. John Mayer
Know he was kind of always sitting in look like a school.
00:21:06:03 - 00:21:11:24
Stacey/Dori
Room. I know he was like, he's the one who was talking about loving the president of the United States and all that.
00:21:11:24 - 00:21:13:27
Dori
Yeah, yeah, yeah, follow the laws.
00:21:13:27 - 00:21:33:11
Dr. John Mayer
Now we've corrected everything, etc.. That guy, if you if you saw his story, remember he was a cyclist and he was cycling around New Zealand and he was again one of these people looking for meaning in my life. And you know, and again, I always say in these situations, you know, who was who was footing the bill on that.
00:21:33:11 - 00:21:58:27
Dr. John Mayer
You know, this young man in his 20s riding a bicycle around New Zealand, you know, all the time, my kids couldn't do that, you know, they had to, somebody had to pay their way. But, you know, and that's the other thing that I bristled at with this with this group is and I think a good takeaway from this for our episode here today, I don't I don't agree with them.
00:21:58:28 - 00:22:01:25
Dr. John Mayer
They talk about they're looking for meaning I don't think.
00:22:01:25 - 00:22:02:07
Dori
They're what are they.
00:22:02:07 - 00:22:03:07
Stacey/Dori
Looking for?
00:22:03:10 - 00:22:25:21
Dr. John Mayer
I think they were looking for some kind of passion or sensationalism. You know, if you look at these people and it's pretty blah life, they, they were living and they what do they gravitate to? They gravitate to this. Neville Cooper I have a hard time calling him hopeful Christian. Who's everybody sitting around kind of blah. They're dressed the same.
00:22:25:23 - 00:22:47:16
Dr. John Mayer
They're Babylon bobbing their heads. Yeah. And Neville's them fire. You know, Jesus. And you know why he's come and we're going to take you away unless you behave and unless you dress this way, that's pretty darn exciting. You know, it's like. And every one of these cults that we've taken up, the leader has had this, this passion, this energy.
00:22:47:18 - 00:22:54:21
Dori
Now the other people go, that's not Warren Jeffs. Warren. Well, in a way, is preaching.
00:22:54:21 - 00:22:56:23
Dr. John Mayer
Was in a way kind of.
00:22:56:26 - 00:23:00:10
Dori
You sensational. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:23:00:13 - 00:23:02:22
Stacey/Dori
That singing with that covered placement.
00:23:02:25 - 00:23:03:12
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:03:13 - 00:23:06:02
Stacey/Dori
Right. Yeah. Every time I think of them I think of that.
00:23:06:04 - 00:23:18:27
Dr. John Mayer
But I think these people are very misguided. You know, this whole I'm, I'm looking for meaning in my life. And you know, what do they gravitate to? Some ugly old man who has no credentials to to do what he's doing.
00:23:18:27 - 00:23:26:10
Stacey/Dori
And then a second ugly old man from Arkansas. How is that dude become the shepherd?
00:23:26:16 - 00:23:28:15
Dori
Yeah, a former people.
00:23:28:15 - 00:23:36:01
Dr. John Mayer
A former low level, recruit in the Navy. The US Navy, who becomes the second in command.
00:23:36:04 - 00:23:49:02
Stacey/Dori
Yeah. He's not even a New Zealander like Arkansas. He's an American. Many Arkansas breed. So many of that type. I've noticed a lot of bad news. Would like to check out glory.
00:23:49:04 - 00:23:52:18
Dori
Oh, yeah. But so.
00:23:52:20 - 00:24:10:01
Dr. John Mayer
So that's what I think you're talking about in terms of, you know, the people that get involved in this. I mean, do you I don't know anybody in my circle of people that I know, which includes all of you, that would be interested at all in joining anything like this. You know, I.
00:24:10:01 - 00:24:28:17
Stacey/Dori
Don't know, but I was at the I was at the Chicago Dogs game on Friday with my friend Susan. Oh, she told me she met she went on a hiking trip. She just got back. Yeah. Stop eating that in front of us. It's so rude. You're making us jealous. Like tempting us.
00:24:28:19 - 00:24:30:29
Dori
She mountain to listen. Thank you.
00:24:30:29 - 00:24:34:26
Stacey/Dori
Jerome from Washington.
00:24:34:28 - 00:25:01:29
Stacey/Dori
Who said I believe I was in a cult? Free like this was just a recent, like, revelation. She has, like, 8 or 9 kids, and she just recently said so. I don't know, I think there are people, obviously, who are looking for more. I mean, I told my friend, I have to talk to this woman because I need to find out what cult this was from.
00:25:01:29 - 00:25:02:27
Stacey/Dori
And well.
00:25:02:29 - 00:25:04:00
Dori
It Dory.
00:25:04:02 - 00:25:11:17
Dr. John Mayer
Dory, I'm not saying they're not looking for more, but they're looking for more. They're not necessarily looking for the meaning of life. You know that, you know.
00:25:11:17 - 00:25:17:27
Stacey/Dori
Well, but in twisted yoga, the, the urine one, they were all looking for the meaning.
00:25:17:27 - 00:25:19:04
Dori
Of meaning of life.
00:25:19:07 - 00:25:27:04
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah, but what? Yeah. What what did they get? What did they find more of this bizarre sensationalism going on those journeys?
00:25:27:04 - 00:25:53:11
Stacey/Dori
I got the sense with this one that they are enjoying this, like simple life like that. They like each other. And again, I don't I, I it is horrible. There are terrible atrocities that go on. I do not believe in group mind and everybody dressing the same and thinking the same. And not yeah, next time we're all going to be wearing our tuxedos because you're our cult leader.
00:25:53:11 - 00:26:24:16
Stacey/Dori
But I do get that. But I got more of a sense, and maybe it was because of the people who they had interviewed. For the documentary. But I did get more of a sense of these people do truly enjoy being around one another, whereas these other cult documentaries I've seen, it's like they are literally hypnotized. Like I feel like they are brainwashed in this one.
00:26:24:19 - 00:26:47:11
Stacey/Dori
Personally, I wasn't 100% sure where I thought they were all thinking, but do you think it's because there isn't like, well, there is a leader, but like the Sam Bateman type, you know, like the one where they were all like, you know, like looking at him like he was, you know, like this, you know, the next coming, you know, the second coming.
00:26:47:17 - 00:27:10:22
Stacey/Dori
And then but in this, I didn't see that. Kind of like a worship of a person. But maybe I'm maybe I'm. I'm I, I agree with you. For me, it wasn't the person. It was more of the ideology of what they. Because that's why that that that hot shepherd dude who's now the head shepherd, he probably just fell into that.
00:27:10:22 - 00:27:15:20
Stacey/Dori
But like, do people worship him or the ideas and they just need a leader?
00:27:15:20 - 00:27:48:04
Dr. John Mayer
Well, again, I think I think it's the fault of the document document documentary because remember that one woman said, you know, we heard Neville Cooper preaching all day long when we were at lunch. It was on the PA system, you know, but I don't think they brought out how much Neville Cooper was venerated by these people, you know, and again, look at, for the audience sake, they showed, Neville Cooper's funeral.
00:27:48:05 - 00:28:14:06
Dr. John Mayer
He died. And I think it was 2018 at 92. And they showed his funeral, which was was pretty spectacular funeral for somebody, you know, the pure white cat, casket. They had some inscription, you know, to the beloved father and and etc. on the casket. Yeah. I think he was. What's worked? I just said,
00:28:14:08 - 00:28:16:29
Stacey/Dori
You said venerable. I don't even know what that word means.
00:28:17:02 - 00:28:18:15
Dr. John Mayer
Venerated. Venerated.
00:28:18:16 - 00:28:20:02
Dori
Great. What does it mean?
00:28:20:05 - 00:28:29:25
Dr. John Mayer
It means worshiped. I think he was worshiped more than the, documentary brought out. You know, again, I think it's the fault of the document. Documentary.
00:28:29:25 - 00:28:45:25
Stacey/Dori
So did you get did you guys get the sense. And this one, that it like the others? I think it's a lot about the money, you know, like that they're making these cults are making so much money. They didn't get in this one that it was. Am I.
00:28:45:25 - 00:28:53:06
Dr. John Mayer
Wrong? But they did say the damn cost was worth $65 million. Oh, you're so.
00:28:53:06 - 00:28:54:04
Dori
Glad I missed that.
00:28:54:11 - 00:28:59:22
Dr. John Mayer
Six. Yeah, because that's why he's going. And I love that. Lloyd. Didn't you love that lawyer? Go after.
00:28:59:22 - 00:29:01:19
Dori
These people. Yes. He was like.
00:29:01:19 - 00:29:03:06
Stacey/Dori
I did because he was going to.
00:29:03:13 - 00:29:06:20
Dr. John Mayer
Use me. Dory. He was like a dog with a bone.
00:29:06:22 - 00:29:18:09
Stacey/Dori
So wait, so they weren't. So they are worth 65 million and how like, again, maybe the bad of the documentarians not going into it, like how they are making.
00:29:18:13 - 00:29:20:02
Dori
All of this money.
00:29:20:03 - 00:29:28:27
Dr. John Mayer
It was a brief moment. It was almost I if I had a timer on, it was probably less than five minutes. And they said cattle, they had a cattle business.
00:29:28:27 - 00:29:32:19
Dori
They had a oh yeah, business. They're from but screen. Right.
00:29:32:25 - 00:29:41:16
Dr. John Mayer
And remember when all the abuse was, exposed in the papers in New Zealand, their vendors or. But customers.
00:29:41:16 - 00:29:42:00
Dori
Pulled out.
00:29:42:02 - 00:29:43:13
Dr. John Mayer
Started to leave.
00:29:43:16 - 00:29:47:16
Stacey/Dori
Yeah. And look, the Amish, they sound kind of like the,
00:29:47:18 - 00:29:49:17
Dori
And Fern at this rate. And they all.
00:29:49:19 - 00:29:52:27
Stacey/Dori
Sure it's the New Zealand Amish.
00:29:52:29 - 00:30:12:09
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. They had a lot of industries where they're making up again, which we've seen before in these cults. Right. There's this financial empire. They build it to, sustain themselves. I can sustain myself very, very well at 65 million bucks. You know, that's, more than sustain myself.
00:30:12:09 - 00:30:33:03
Stacey/Dori
There's for 65 million bucks. Can they get more dresses? Like, different one better? Well, didn't they say in the other documentary they don't want to have competing? Like they don't want people to compete with one another? You know, like fashion, right? It's just like Catholic school or anything else where you have to wear a uniform. Everybody needs to look at the same.
00:30:33:03 - 00:30:34:03
Dori
Uniforms in.
00:30:34:03 - 00:30:56:03
Dr. John Mayer
School. And yeah, that's a technique that's used psychologically to have people. It reduces, competition. Supposedly. You know, it takes away the need for, you know, this could be boys or girls, you know. Well, I got a I got to wear a bow tie today because I want to be different, etc.. You see, we don't have that.
00:30:56:03 - 00:30:57:04
Dr. John Mayer
We don't have a uniform.
00:30:57:04 - 00:31:04:19
Stacey/Dori
So wait till you see Stacy. And I do mean that they're all going to be wearing our bow ties. Yeah. I mean, order one of those.
00:31:04:26 - 00:31:08:20
Dr. John Mayer
Competition going ladies. Let's put it on the table. I'm throwing the gantlet down.
00:31:08:20 - 00:31:09:04
Dori
Let's do.
00:31:09:04 - 00:31:28:20
Stacey/Dori
It. Why? You know, all these, you know, all these groups, seem to have, you know, as and I said this earlier in the documentary or earlier in the recording that they all seem to have a connection to religion and that's their kind of like hook. That's their hook.
00:31:28:22 - 00:31:30:14
Dori
Thank you for saying goodbye.
00:31:30:16 - 00:31:36:21
Dr. John Mayer
I want to get back to that. I agree, and as the sole Christian in the group here.
00:31:36:23 - 00:31:37:07
Stacey/Dori
Well, Jerry.
00:31:37:08 - 00:31:37:25
Dori
You said.
00:31:37:25 - 00:31:42:00
Dr. John Mayer
You said before, you said before. And our producer, Jeremy. Of course.
00:31:42:03 - 00:31:43:15
Dori
Well, Yeah.
00:31:43:18 - 00:31:49:21
Dr. John Mayer
You said that before, that they're not really following Jesus, you know, and I, I agree.
00:31:49:22 - 00:31:51:08
Dori
Oh, know, I mean.
00:31:51:11 - 00:32:04:16
Dr. John Mayer
Not I grew up not that I was indoctrinated in, you know, and studied about, you know, I think Jesus had a, a kind of regular life. And then every once in a while, he, you know, gave a sermon on the Mount in or something like that.
00:32:04:19 - 00:32:33:06
Stacey/Dori
Well, yeah. And but when he did that, you know, people flocked around him because he was saying these really wonderful things. And then the people that were in charge or the higher priests were very, critical and also intimidated and threatened by that kind of power, which wasn't even that's the thing that the the higher ups are the things that people are using to weaponize Christianity now and make it.
00:32:33:08 - 00:32:48:15
Stacey/Dori
Do you understand what I mean? Yeah, the real people, the salt of the earth people that were following him were not trying to create a cult. Now, they might have seemed like they were, you know, groups of people gathering around. But that's not that. It wasn't a cult.
00:32:48:22 - 00:32:49:01
Dori
No.
00:32:49:01 - 00:32:50:10
Stacey/Dori
Totally different.
00:32:50:12 - 00:33:09:12
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. I don't think we need our our show was not to be, you know, a theology lesson, but but yeah, from what I know, and I'm no expert in this area. Yeah, not none of the aspects of a cult were, in, you know, Jesus followers that that I could see, you know?
00:33:09:14 - 00:33:11:03
Dori
Yeah. I think you're religion is.
00:33:11:03 - 00:33:37:10
Stacey/Dori
I mean, we don't need to get too much into it, but, you know, I think with watching these documentaries, what doing for for pod candy and just before it really turned me off, like religion, all religions. Just it's not just about. Yeah, yeah, it's not about like Christians. It's not about that. It's all when people are so fanatical and they use it.
00:33:37:12 - 00:34:05:14
Stacey/Dori
Weaponize it. Name? Correct. Weaponize it in the name of your. Yeah, yeah. I don't know how we allow this with no taxes. No. Like, they truly get away with murder. Yeah. Cuz Bob, the law it truly they are truly above the law. It's it. That's why they hide behind the religion so that they can do all these things.
00:34:05:17 - 00:34:16:02
Dr. John Mayer
And and again, I wish the documentary had brought that out. You know, because we have those the freedom of religion does New Zealand I don't know I was wondering that while I was watching the.
00:34:16:02 - 00:34:16:28
Stacey/Dori
I don't know if the.
00:34:17:01 - 00:34:23:10
Dr. John Mayer
Documentaries that. Yeah, they're making all kinds of money, are they taxed? I don't know, I don't know in New Zealand. You know what what occurred.
00:34:23:11 - 00:34:31:08
Stacey/Dori
Well and they talked about also to like moving right from where they are now or or they're like, I thought.
00:34:31:08 - 00:34:31:23
Dr. John Mayer
So, but.
00:34:31:29 - 00:34:35:13
Dori
It's like you can just replace, you know, let's say, well.
00:34:35:16 - 00:34:52:08
Stacey/Dori
It must be worth a lot. And, there were questions, obviously, like, I did want to find out a little bit more like, you know, because we always see in a lot of these documentaries that they move groups of people, especially to when the government is.
00:34:52:08 - 00:34:53:10
Dr. John Mayer
After them, when they're,
00:34:53:12 - 00:34:54:28
Stacey/Dori
You know, when the police are.
00:34:54:28 - 00:34:56:15
Dr. John Mayer
And the heat design, so to speak.
00:34:56:16 - 00:35:04:25
Stacey/Dori
Yeah. But it seemed like unless I missed it, because I did watch it a while ago, that they all still are there, that they that.
00:35:04:26 - 00:35:05:11
Dori
Though.
00:35:05:14 - 00:35:06:18
Dr. John Mayer
I think they still exist.
00:35:06:18 - 00:35:29:12
Stacey/Dori
And it also is well, I guess a lot do a lot. I'm just thinking of other cults that like, I know like, you know, I was just thinking of like the model cult that we watched the last time that they could go live their lives, but also be a part of the cult. It seems like this one kind of like the IVP, and the more like the they truly just live.
00:35:29:12 - 00:35:37:02
Stacey/Dori
They are on the commune. That's. Yeah, there aren't people probably that go home to another.
00:35:37:05 - 00:35:39:21
Dr. John Mayer
It wasn't a community. It wasn't a community school, you know.
00:35:39:28 - 00:35:41:24
Stacey/Dori
Right. They're not like going home.
00:35:41:27 - 00:35:42:22
Dori
Right there.
00:35:42:24 - 00:35:49:08
Stacey/Dori
But also being a part of this cult like those that are in this cult lived there. Do everything.
00:35:49:08 - 00:35:50:12
Dori
For this. Yeah.
00:35:50:12 - 00:35:56:22
Dr. John Mayer
You didn't you didn't, you know, drive there and change your address in the car and, you know, get that crappy blue.
00:35:56:25 - 00:35:58:16
Stacey/Dori
You know, say, say, you know, they say with.
00:35:58:17 - 00:35:58:26
Dori
A little.
00:35:58:26 - 00:36:01:08
Dr. John Mayer
Lactation slap. I like the little lactation.
00:36:01:09 - 00:36:02:11
Dori
Yeah, yeah, but they thought.
00:36:02:14 - 00:36:18:09
Stacey/Dori
They were smart. But they say, don't judge us. How are people not going to judge a group of people that are living that way? How are we not going to look at it and wonder what the fuck is going on?
00:36:18:12 - 00:36:21:01
Dr. John Mayer
Well, just by visuals, right? I said, I.
00:36:21:01 - 00:36:42:03
Stacey/Dori
Mean, like how I mean, they're like so offended that people are wondering what's going on. I don't think they really care. It sounded to me like a lot of these groups don't need a lot of these cult. They really don't care unless you come for them. I guess you're right. I think that they would love to just live their lives and not be bothered.
00:36:42:06 - 00:37:23:21
Stacey/Dori
And that's, I think, where what you have people outside of it or people that leave the bring in the concern and that's what I, I really do feel that a lot of these places are like just are very content being in these groups and would like nobody to bother them. And remember Sam Bateman, remember she came and like infiltrated that whole cult and you know, they loved her and they, you know, had not had she not done that, they'd still be there were people, you know, there was a woman who woke up like, you know, John, how does that switch happen?
00:37:23:24 - 00:37:33:16
Stacey/Dori
It's happened with me for certain things in my life. Were all of a sudden, I'll go, oh, I get it, you know, would that have ever happened in, in that kind of a thing? But. Well, yeah.
00:37:33:20 - 00:37:34:09
Dori
But I.
00:37:34:11 - 00:37:35:16
Stacey/Dori
Brought in the outside.
00:37:35:16 - 00:38:01:10
Dr. John Mayer
I think there's two things involved was that, you know, I discussed this earlier about there's a lot of people that just are fine with other people telling them how to live, who they should be. You know, think of when you're control that much, think of all the things that that sells for you. It solves your identity crisis. You know, those those little children are happy because they don't have to go through the struggles that we went through.
00:38:01:10 - 00:38:29:05
Dr. John Mayer
And as teenagers like what I want to be, am I going to get in the right college? You know, am I going to get a, a partner, you know, etc. is all these questions developmentally that come up in these, which are very painful, you know, if you recall, in pre teenage years, teenage years, young adulthood, all these issues of who am I, what is this all about, etc. that's all.
00:38:29:05 - 00:38:54:01
Dr. John Mayer
So then again, we get to the creature comforts. You know, your your food is paid for, your lodging is paid for, your job is determined. This is what you're going to do, buddy. You're going to build a house or you're going to, you know, look at that. That fella with his whole family of filling holes in the asphalt or the roadway, you know, it's like you're going to be a roadway filler guy, you know, etc..
00:38:54:04 - 00:38:55:01
Dr. John Mayer
You know, I don't know what it is.
00:38:55:09 - 00:38:57:06
Stacey/Dori
I should be so lucky. I'm trying.
00:38:57:06 - 00:39:01:13
Dori
To. You're not a recruiting. Sometimes I would say yes, I chose I was.
00:39:01:15 - 00:39:03:00
Dr. John Mayer
Digging ditches, you know, so.
00:39:03:01 - 00:39:04:28
Stacey/Dori
Dig ditches.
00:39:05:00 - 00:39:29:26
Dr. John Mayer
So all of that stuff is silent. So back to Stacy. Your question. So why do some people rebel? It's because they inherently don't have that same need as other people to be so control. They don't want to be controlled. And that to us is healthy, right? It's that's a that's mental health that I want free will. And the other second thing is intelligence.
00:39:29:26 - 00:39:41:19
Dr. John Mayer
There usually if you look at the interviews that we've had over all our episodes, that these cults, the people that leave, that leave seem to have a little more intelligence, you know, things.
00:39:41:22 - 00:39:58:01
Stacey/Dori
But this one, I really felt that the people that were speaking in this cult, I did think that they were rather intelligent. That guy, oh, that guy, that the teacher tech guy that you talked about. I did not think he was intelligent. Yeah, I.
00:39:58:02 - 00:39:58:14
Dori
Think that.
00:39:58:14 - 00:40:01:18
Dr. John Mayer
Leanne presented.
00:40:01:20 - 00:40:02:25
Stacey/Dori
Very well.
00:40:02:27 - 00:40:04:29
Dori
Itself. Very well. Yeah, she did.
00:40:04:29 - 00:40:34:17
Stacey/Dori
I she did. I do think I do have to give like, I don't know if it's credit or I am actually, like, I wouldn't be able to do it like these people that do leave like the, the, the guy who was hopeful Christian's father and he left and he had all these kids and he's taking care of all these kids and like, how do people leave with nothing and provide for their children?
00:40:34:19 - 00:40:41:25
Stacey/Dori
I really, truly do not get it. Like, how can people leave these codes and can make it?
00:40:41:25 - 00:40:43:14
Dr. John Mayer
So that's exactly.
00:40:43:18 - 00:40:44:12
Dori
Where I five.
00:40:44:14 - 00:40:45:15
Stacey/Dori
Children.
00:40:45:20 - 00:41:05:26
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah, that's where I think the holes were in the documentary. What? Yeah. How did this guy survive the other big hole? And I'm dying to say is that we had no background on this. Neville Cooper, you know. Where did he come from? I mean, it was he like Joseph Smith? You know, he just was traveling this drama.
00:41:05:28 - 00:41:06:29
Dori
It's just the golden.
00:41:06:29 - 00:41:09:06
Dr. John Mayer
Rules and, and a top hat or something.
00:41:09:06 - 00:41:09:15
Dori
Like that.
00:41:09:15 - 00:41:16:07
Stacey/Dori
The sisters or the daughters is actually talking about those two older ladies who were talking, I think was at their fort.
00:41:16:12 - 00:41:20:03
Dori
He was what? They, you know, their daughters.
00:41:20:05 - 00:41:23:06
Stacey/Dori
They were daughters of him. Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:23:08 - 00:41:42:24
Dr. John Mayer
And and I'm speaking of which you you stimulated another observation of mine. And I don't know if this will make a final cut over, but I guess. But and you've both made jump on me for this. How come the women in these groups always turn out to be so frumpy and fat and ugly?
00:41:42:24 - 00:41:51:17
Stacey/Dori
I'm not going to yell at you. I agree, I was going to. That's when I said pasty women. I mean, in men and men. I mean, let's not know. These women I thought were women.
00:41:51:17 - 00:41:53:25
Dori
Just look, this, you know, hey, look.
00:41:53:25 - 00:41:55:12
Dr. John Mayer
Doris is ready to sign up.
00:41:55:13 - 00:41:57:10
Dori
Like I'm ready to go to.
00:41:57:10 - 00:42:08:12
Stacey/Dori
New Zealand just for the guy, just for that new shepherd. What do you do? You enjoy, you know, what do you wish we could do? A go fund me to to, like, fly us to New Zealand.
00:42:08:14 - 00:42:09:02
Dori
Let's do.
00:42:09:02 - 00:42:11:00
Stacey/Dori
It. Be amazing. Do you want to try?
00:42:11:03 - 00:42:12:21
Dori
Right? Maybe.
00:42:12:21 - 00:42:19:19
Stacey/Dori
But the women, the. I do think that like, the kids are like, they're all like kids. And they were.
00:42:19:19 - 00:42:22:10
Dori
Cute. The kids always look, always kids, you know, like.
00:42:22:17 - 00:42:25:06
Dr. John Mayer
Wow, you'd predict that, boy, this this kid's going to.
00:42:25:06 - 00:42:27:13
Dori
Grow up. It is interesting.
00:42:27:15 - 00:43:02:09
Stacey/Dori
I yeah, I don't want to say that they're all unattractive, but it is interesting that the men are so into, like, sexualizing these women, but they wear no makeup. They, they're not wearing, like, provocative clothing. They're wearing their braids and their hair up, and they're wearing glasses. Yeah. Modest clothing, but maybe that's their jam or like, maybe like, well, there's something for, like, you know, like.
00:43:02:16 - 00:43:05:19
Dori
There's some cycle. And for now, there's some.
00:43:05:21 - 00:43:17:17
Dr. John Mayer
Logical studies that say that, you know, that your, your sexual imagination is stimulated more by what you don't see than what you see. I think that's what a lot of, you know, the the.
00:43:17:17 - 00:43:19:15
Dori
Curly, the curly B's.
00:43:19:18 - 00:43:21:09
Dr. John Mayer
Everybody don't get in our world.
00:43:21:09 - 00:43:23:28
Stacey/Dori
You just start wearing something like.
00:43:24:01 - 00:43:24:22
Dr. John Mayer
You know, I.
00:43:24:22 - 00:43:46:16
Stacey/Dori
Think to maybe, maybe I need to create like a dating profile where I am so buttoned up and no makeup, hair, I'm just going to, like, put it up and wear a bonnet and be like, I'm trying like George Costanza, like everything that is has gone wrong for me. So now I'm going to try the opposite and try it.
00:43:46:18 - 00:43:48:19
Stacey/Dori
They may think it would work.
00:43:48:22 - 00:43:52:22
Unknown
They.
00:43:52:25 - 00:44:16:15
Dr. John Mayer
Stacy had a question about what comes first. The chicken or the egg? You know, is this does the abuse come after, these groups get formed or was it right? And I think the thing you have to remember about, these groups is that, first of all, all of these groups are started by people that are anti-social, by the pure definition of anti-social.
00:44:16:15 - 00:44:50:05
Dr. John Mayer
They're against the norms. Right? They're not they're they're unusual. They're we might even call them pretty bizarre crazy, but they're they're anti-social individuals. So what typically happens when somebody is, is, against the social norms in society. They're against a, the majority of social norms in society, which includes sexuality and relationships, etc.. And so I think the, the, the answer is, you know, the egg came first.
00:44:50:05 - 00:45:19:29
Dr. John Mayer
I guess, you know, that they, they have a proclivity to be sexualized. Yes. And, and have sexual deviation because they're, they deviate from the norm. And so the sexual deviation is their first. And I think, you know, almost like a kid in a candy store, then having all this ability and all these little kids that I can abuse and, and these women that I control, then, you know, it gives them the opportunity to express their deviance.
00:45:19:29 - 00:45:24:15
Dr. John Mayer
But these are deviant people. I have a deviant people first.
00:45:24:17 - 00:45:51:21
Stacey/Dori
There's so many deviant people in the world, it's getting disgusting and ridiculous. I think it's becoming the percentage of let me just human beings, as we all know, there were just terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible dogs are better. God, yes. It's especially it's almost said especially. Oh, God. So gross. Especially my dog. So this was, you know, this was okay.
00:45:51:23 - 00:46:09:27
Stacey/Dori
I definitely was like, yeah, it was. I hate to dialect. I can't argue that dialect. No more New Zealand or Australia, I can't say, okay. All right. No more. I love British, but I don't like or I don't like the dialect. It makes me. Well, let's turn off the people of New Zealand.
00:46:09:27 - 00:46:12:19
Dori
I'm sorry. I love I country listeners.
00:46:12:19 - 00:46:21:11
Dr. John Mayer
By the way. Oh, and we forgot to mention our newest, newest country that's listening to us is Guatemala. Oh, wow. So welcome Guatemala.
00:46:21:14 - 00:46:23:13
Dori
Like, what am I, Guatemala?
00:46:23:13 - 00:46:40:12
Stacey/Dori
I'm sorry about new Zealand. I love New Zealand and Australia is country beautiful. But I just don't love the dialect. Like I have a terrible dialect, you know? What are you on me? That's Stacey Fraser. What a terrible diet. Well, my dialect horrible. I'm like now every time I listen to myself, it's horrible.
00:46:40:12 - 00:46:45:23
Dr. John Mayer
You know, Stacey, your comment. I really missed an opportunity here which I'm now going to grab, by the way.
00:46:45:25 - 00:46:46:24
Dori
Yes.
00:46:46:27 - 00:47:02:13
Dr. John Mayer
Is it you know, we got to take a look at remember Australian New Zealand was started by deviants. They were penal colonies for the British. And so, you know, the.
00:47:02:13 - 00:47:02:25
Dori
White.
00:47:02:25 - 00:47:04:21
Stacey/Dori
People, they were penal.
00:47:04:23 - 00:47:07:09
Dori
Penal units, not penis.
00:47:07:11 - 00:47:10:23
Stacey/Dori
People. I think this is like the full circle.
00:47:10:26 - 00:47:13:03
Dori
The penal colony.
00:47:13:05 - 00:47:31:17
Dr. John Mayer
They were prison. They were prisons for for the British Empire. And so the white people that initially inhabited Australian, New Zealand were actually criminals from the British Isles. And so, maybe they're deviance runs to the penis.
00:47:31:17 - 00:47:34:11
Dori
Everybody, here's the penis. Yes.
00:47:34:13 - 00:48:04:13
Stacey/Dori
You know, that's that's very and I notice when people, when people infiltrate other countries that are not, you know, like Africa and stuff like that, you know, and then they try to bring their religion, their customs, their fruits and vegetables and their our agriculture to the to the other country. It always ends up flopping because, yeah, nobody asks you to come here and show us your, you know, your life.
00:48:04:15 - 00:48:06:03
Dr. John Mayer
And religion and.
00:48:06:05 - 00:48:08:10
Stacey/Dori
Religion. Very much religion.
00:48:08:12 - 00:48:24:22
Dr. John Mayer
Yeah. Which brings me in. And, you know, as we kind of wind down here today, I think an important takeaway for the audience about, this whole thing and why how me going to express this?
00:48:24:25 - 00:48:40:06
Dr. John Mayer
We've seen this and other cults that we've examined where these leaders, these deviant leaders, you know, they're the sexually abusing people, etc. then the next leader that comes in does the same thing, you know, and on and on and on.
00:48:40:09 - 00:49:08:06
Dr. John Mayer
And what that is, is, and you're all going to go on a higher moment is that, that systems theory. Yeah. What starts at the top filters down all the way to the lowest levels. That's the pure systems theory. So again, these people who are deviant start these cults and their values, their their proclivities, their taste, etc., filter all the way down to the bottom.
00:49:08:08 - 00:49:32:14
Dr. John Mayer
Lesson for everybody. And I had a I had a patient of mine. This is a good example how this same theory can, can invade our everyday life. A patient this last week was talking about interviewing for a job, and he tells me that, oh man, this one interview with, I believe this person is going to be my direct manager.
00:49:32:14 - 00:49:59:26
Dr. John Mayer
Was caustic, was mean spirited, was rude, etc. and I said, take a closer look at that. How does a person get away with that? And in an organization, where does that come from? And again, it's systems theory. That person is being managed by another person who's managed by another person. And it flows.
00:49:59:26 - 00:50:01:23
Stacey/Dori
Welcome to corporate America.
00:50:01:24 - 00:50:05:20
Dr. John Mayer
Exactly. Flows from the top to the bottom.
00:50:05:22 - 00:50:26:02
Dr. John Mayer
Well, the same thing happens in these cults and audience. Watch for these things in your everyday life. And here's the perfect practical example a person interviewing for a job. And this direct manager is very you know, it's like, I don't want to work for that person. Well, that person is part of the larger organization.
00:50:26:02 - 00:50:31:25
Dr. John Mayer
That may be exactly the same way. So be careful. Just be careful.
00:50:31:27 - 00:50:36:07
Unknown
They.
00:50:36:10 - 00:50:46:03
Stacey/Dori
Thank you for joining us. I love that we had our first on camera recording. Yeah I think it went well.
00:50:46:06 - 00:50:49:03
Dori
I think it went very well. Yeah I think I did.
00:50:49:03 - 00:50:51:11
Stacey/Dori
What is what my shirt says.
00:50:51:14 - 00:50:58:00
Stacey/Dori
please stay tuned for our next episode, A Toxic Love Story on Netflix
00:50:58:02 - 00:51:01:24
Speaker 1
Candy.
00:51:01:26 - 00:51:14:18
Unknown
I.
00:51:14:20 - 00:51:16:19
Unknown
Really?