Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag

Join us on an enriching journey with Ben Glasson of Glasson Farms and Good Place Abattoir as we explore the multifaceted world of regenerative livestock production and grazing on Vancouver Island. Ben shares his unique experiences and insights, from the logistical challenges of farming on an island to his innovative grazing practices. Listen in as we discuss the significance of scale and infrastructure, particularly for those working on leased properties, and uncover the interconnectedness of grazing management, ecological health, and community sustainability.

We also delve into the role of educational resources in the regenerative agriculture journey. Ben discusses the profound influence of Wendell Berry's "The Unsettling of America" and the convenience of learning through audiobooks while managing farm tasks. Our conversation covers practical aspects such as starting small with backyard quail tractors, expanding to larger livestock, and using spreadsheets to ensure viability. Additionally, we explore the intense daily life of a farmer deeply passionate about regenerative agriculture, from managing multiple livestock to participating in farmers markets and even hosting a local radio show.

Further, we uncover innovative techniques for managing chicken and turkey tractors on a suburban farm, the concept of forest pork, and the benefits of raising pigs in forested areas. Ben shares his approach to small-scale vertical integration and processing, including a herd share program and building a poultry processing facility. We conclude with valuable advice for aspiring farmers, emphasizing the importance of scalable approaches and community relationships. This episode is packed with insights and practical tips for anyone interested in sustainable farming and livestock management.

Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Glassen Farms
The Good Place Abattoir

Visit our Sponsors:
Noble Research Institute
Kencove Farm Fence

What is Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag?

The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.

This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?

Welcome to grazing grass
podcast, episode 126.

Ben: I think what I have to tell
someone who's starting out is that

you can start any way right now But
try and do so with a bit of scale.

Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories

of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.

I'm your host, Cal Hardage.

You're growing more than grass.

You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle

thrive in their environment.

You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity

and reducing your operating costs.

You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.

The grazing management
decisions you make today.

impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.

That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials

of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow

techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.

In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.

Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,

but a legacy that lasts.

Learn more on their website at noble.

org slash grazing.

It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.

On today's show.

We have Ben Glassen of Glassen
Farms and Good Place Abattoir he's

sharing what he's doing on Vancouver
island with multiple species.

I think, no matter what you're
grazing, you're going to get

something from today's episode.

Also his four principles are grazing
infrastructure is beneficial for

anyone that's grazing animals,
especially on lease property.

Really good episode.

I think you'll enjoy it.

However, before we talked to Ben.

10 seconds about my farm.

So if I turn out bulls right now,
I'm calving at the 1st of May.

However, I turned out bulls a
couple of weeks ago because I wanted

to push that, beginning of the
calving season back a little bit.

I wanted to push it back into mid April.

So bull's been out a couple of weeks.

But for the spring calving
cows, the bulls are out.

For the podcast.

We have some really good guests coming up.

A couple of authors are coming on.

So be watching out for those.

Also we're working on some new March.

So.

Be on the lookout of that.

We'll talk about it on the podcast.

Soon.

One thing we do each week is released
a YouTube version of the podcast.

We release a YouTube version of
the podcast for people who like to

consume their podcasts on YouTube.

Now if you're one that doesn't want
to listen on YouTube, that's fine.

But what you could do, you could
jump over YouTube and subscribe

to the grazing grass podcast.

It helped us out.

We appreciate it.

Enough of that.

Let's talk to Beth.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Ben, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass Podcast.

We're excited you're here today.

Ben: Thank you so much.

I'm a long time listener.

First time caller.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Well, thank you.

We're so glad you're becoming a
caller, but we're also so happy

you've been a listener as well.

And to get started, Ben, can
you tell us a little bit about

yourself and your operation?

Ben: Thanks, Cal.

I'm here on Vancouver Island in British
Columbia, so I'm on a big island.

It's about 800 miles long and about
200 miles wide, and it's in the Pacific

Ocean a two hour ferry journey away from
Vancouver and our big metropolitan centre.

And so across the water from us is
Vancouver, but to the south of us is

Victoria The province's capital and
across from Victoria is is Seattle.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: okay.

Yeah.

And just on Vancouver Island, is
there a large population there?

Or as we get into this a little
more, you're selling products.

Are you going off island to sell products?

Ben: There's two million
people on Vancouver Island.

About a million of which are in
the greater Victoria area, so south

of the a little mountain pass.

And so I am two hours north of Victoria,
in the second largest community on the

island, about a hundred thousand people.

I do go over to the mainland and
deliver mostly to friends and

family that are still over there,
because I did my education at

Capilano University for tourism.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, okay.

Well, just in context for me, in Oklahoma
we have about 4 million people, so about

half that population is on the island.

Just to give me some

Ben: Yes, sir.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: work from.

Okay, sorry, I jumped into that
because I saw when you'd sent in your

original information and looking at
your website, Vancouver Island, I

thought, oh, this is really interesting.

For one, I hate to admit I don't
know this, but I had to look it

up and figure out it was in the
Pacific Ocean versus the Atlantic.

Because I thought, Is that an island
on the east side or on the west side?

And obviously, as

Ben: Fair

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: enough.

side.

I'm much smarter now, so thank you, Ben.

I appreciate that.

Ben: Well, the Vancouver, and you
could have associated it with like

Vancouver, Washington, Vancouver,
British Columbia, Vancouver Island.

That was the leader to to the Pacific

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: yes.

Yeah, very good.

In my defense, I've not
been to the Pacific coast.

I take it back, I went to Hawaii.

That's not really the Pacific
coast, but it is the Pacific.

Ben: Yeah, that's more
like the Pacific middle

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: of the ocean.

It is, you're right, yeah.

So, Ben, we've got you located.

I want to find out why you even
decided to become an agriculturalist.

Ben: When I was a little boy,
we lived in Central Washington.

So I was born in Seattle and then
lived in Wenatchee, Washington.

So, I moved to Wenatchee, Washington
when I was six months old, and so that

was a rural community where there was
horses and cows that when my parents

pushed me around in the stroller, I
would feed grass across the fence to the

cows and the horses in the overgrazed
little paddocks on these hobby farms.

So, that was definitely my
introduction to rural thinking.

And then, at two years old,
my parents took me to a rodeo.

Like, my dad's co workers were
like, Hey, you wanna go to the

OMAC Stampede this weekend?

And I was just enamored.

Like, nothing but cowboys, rodeo,
and ranching was all talked

about for the next few years.

Now my dad was a cyclist, so we moved to
Canada when I was five years old, and then

my dad was a cyclist, so though as a kid I
did a lot of horseback riding lessons and

things like that I transitioned more into
cycling when we moved to Vancouver Island

in 2001, when I was going into grade

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, okay.

Ben: So, so I really focused on cycling
then, although In high school, in,

at the end of grade 9, I had a I was
old enough to buy my own bull riding

gear and find a practice pen on the
island and start a junior steer riding.

So that was my my rodeo fix that was
short lived because I landed myself in the

hospital and lost my spleen to being on.

Oh, yes.

So that put rodeo on the back burner.

However, I continued pursuing cycling
competitively and so out of high

school I was traveling for mountain
bike contests slope style the big

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh,

Ben: and

and big tricks And so I was traveling
for that all over so that was like living

out my dream of being a rodeo traveling
cowboy because you know on the road for

24 hours straight to get from British
Columbia to Colorado or California and

then ride in front of the crowd for
not much more than glory for about 30

seconds and drive home empty handed.

Yeah, and often battered and for sure.

So yeah.

I went to school for tourism thinking
I'd build businesses in mountain biking.

So guiding trail building, bike park
building kids camps and things like that.

And I worked at that kind of thing through
university and then had a two ACL injuries

through competition and then and a back
injury while building mountain bike parks

that just put me out of that industry
going into my last term of university.

So going into my last term I discovered
aquaponics, super interesting because

there's, it was like ecosystem management
where you have this, you're mimicking

a wild pond ecosystem with land based
fish farming, and then root the water

into hydroponic grow beds that takes up
the nutrient rich water, and then the

clean water can go back to the fish.

So it was this mimicking nature, like an
artificial mimicking of the ecosystem.

So That was really interesting to me.

So I did my final research in my
tourism degree on the connections

between aquaponics and tourism.

And my top three findings
were, first of all, you need to

connect with local communities.

So the Canadian Tourism Commission at the
time was big on local eating experiences.

So I want to get involved.

And if Aquaponics is something that
people just don't know about and it's

the same with regenerative agriculture.

So my research there applies
completely to regenerative because

aquaponics and regenerative
people just don't know what it is.

So we need to teach people.

It's an awareness marketing campaign.

And so, So, first of all
local eating experiences.

Second of all, is like being
face to face with your customer.

So, direct marketing local
farmer's markets, talking to

the chefs that you work with.

And then last of all is
working with education.

Everything from kindergartners to Ph.

students.

And I have, I've had a couple
Master's students do research.

I've had a couple grade
three, four classes.

I've had university fitness classes
and all sorts of people come visit my

farm now that I'm applying these same
principles to regenerative agriculture

to spread the awareness of what it

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, yeah.

And I think you hit on a few topics
there that's so important, but getting

out and sharing with others and getting
them on your farm is so important.

Now, in that, are you
doing aquaponics as well?

Ben: Not really.

So I tried to build an industrial,
like a business out aquaponics.

First with a pilot plant and
then with a industrial complex.

But, I was working in the
startup community in Vancouver,

trying to fundraise all this
money for all this equipment.

And, a few speed bumps, including
someone who, I was working for a man

who ended up to be like IPO fraudster,
which was just an insane coincidence.

So I burnt out on that and started
doing some work with what, that my

wife was doing, like youth care,
24 hour supervision of teenagers.

And so these kids didn't
wake up till noon.

And so I had all this time to
spend on YouTube in the mornings.

And that's where I was watching
like Justin Rhodes he's the, his

Homesteader of America tour, where he
his family all over the United States.

And there I was watching a video on
aquaponics, but then on his tour he

also went to places like Greg Judy's
place and Joel Salatin's place.

And so, Justin Rhodes led me to Greg Judy
and Joel Salatin led me to Wendell Berry,

and Wendell Berry led me to Sir Albert
Howard, and then all the way back through

Holistic Management and everything else.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: You
describe a very familiar journey

for so many people right there.

I watch Justin Rhodes.

I watch Greg Judy, Joel
Salatin all those names.

Wendell Berry.

I have not read his books.

That was brought up on the
podcast a couple weeks ago that

I've got to read those books.

But So it's, those names are very
familiar to so many people in this space.

They've came similar journeys to get here.

Ben: Wendell Berry's book, The
Unsettling of America, from 1977,

you read it today and it reads
like it was written yesterday.

Like, everything that he talks about
there is the precursor and the telling

of the beginning of the story, which has
become our industrial farming complex.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: yeah,
that, that's my understanding

and I need to read that.

My to read list is much longer
than my read list at this point.

Ben: And it's narrated by, oh

it's,

it's on Audible.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: excellent.

Ben: Oh, I can't remember
who it's narrated by, but.

Oh, it's narrated by Nick Offerman.

So, Wendell Berry's The Unsettling of
America, read by Nick Offerman, who's

this Hollywood star, that plays all
these tough characters, but is in real

life friends with Wendell Berry because
he appreciates regenerative agriculture

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, yes.

Ben: work.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Well, I
just pulled it up because here I

think I've mentioned on the podcast.

I'm relatively new to the
audio book experience.

I love podcasts.

I listen to podcasts, but audio
books have never really gained

traction with me till lately.

I've started listening to some,
I would say in the last year now.

And so now the struggle is, am I going
to listen to podcast right now or audio?

So I'm excited to find out that
it's on audio book because, as

you know,

you have more time to
listen than you do to read.

Ben: Yeah, I always have my
Bluetooth headphones on at all times.

Everyone releases their new episodes
on a Monday, and by Monday afternoon,

I'm like, Man, what am I going
to listen to rest of the week?

And I usually end up going back
and listening to old audiobooks

that I've already listened
to, Like, Holistic Management.

It's thick, it's dense, and
that's why I've read it, Sorry,

listened to it, twelve times.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: And you just
did something really interesting.

That, when I listen to an audio book,
I don't know why I feel the need when

I say, well, I've read that book.

Well, I listened to it.

Oh,

Ben: Cal, I set you up for that, because I
know you've said that previously, because

I just heard you say it in a podcast that
I was listening to day, and so I'm just

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Yeah,
I don't know why it needs

Ben: I feel the same way

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: there,
but I have to say, and this is, For

authors out there, and we have a lot
of authors that listen, I'm joking

but it is for authors out there.

I have some books.

I own a physical copy and I own the
audio book because I listened to

a book and then I want to go back
and read it or revisit areas of it.

In fact for Love of Soil,
I've got the audio book, the

e book, and the physical book.

So, it gives me access in multiple ways.

I think it gives multiple returns that

Ben: way.

Well, this leads to how I started
learning about regenerative

agriculture, in addition to YouTube.

Well, I then was working a professional
tourism job at an events company

downtown Vancouver, and living
out, in the outskirts, so I'd

hop on a SkyTrain and that would
rip me to town in about an hour.

So I had this hour each direction read.

And I went to the local Vancouver Public
Library and I found that it has a great

farming section with Wendell Berry and
Joel Salatin and all sorts of great books.

So that was how I could
start reading books.

paper books, because my dad especially
was a huge reader, but I never got

the bug because I never had this
solitary time to sit down and read.

And so with this time on the train,
that allowed me to have that.

And then following that, we
were looking to move back to

Vancouver Island to be closer to my
parents as my parents were aging.

And And then I discovered audio
books and then I, and podcasts.

And I was a friend's dad.

Dad offered me a labor job here
on the island where I was power

washing and painting things.

And I could listen to, I was listening
to like 300 hours of podcasts a month,

plus listening to two audiobooks.

I got two audible accounts and then was
going back and rereading old books as

well from audible So that was how I got my
education in regenerative agriculture and

when I was still living on the mainland I
would take that sky train and be reading

these farming books And then I started a
pilot project with not backyard chickens

because we weren't allowed chickens in our
neighborhood So I started with backyard

quail and chicken mini chicken tractors.

So I'd be in my suit, I would walk to
the sky train and move my quail tractors.

And then I'd hop on the train and in
my suit be reading my farming books

and go to my tourism job and then
hop back on the train and come home.

And so that was my first
pilot project in 2018.

And then in 2019, this job allowed me
to move to the island to be closer to my

parents and start leasing fields here.

And then I started with chickens.

and some turkeys, and then pigs, and
then sheep, and now beef cattle as well.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Did you
continue with your quail when you

moved, or did you just go ahead
and transition to chicken at that

Ben: time?

Well, Joel Salatin says that Al
Nation says that his dad says

that you can only be so weird.

You can be a Buddhist,
or you could be a nudist.

But if you're a Buddhist
nudist, that's too weird.

So, re regenerative agriculture
is already pretty weird.

So, I knew that quail was a pilot project,
and that I wanted to be raising quails.

Cornish cross chickens in 2019,
whether it was over there or over here.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: yes.

So you got that opportunity to go to the
island, got some land to do chickens.

Talk about how you got started with that.

Ben: Yeah, so, one thing for me is scale.

Like, you have to start at a bit of scale.

And so by running spreadsheets, I knew
that 250 Cornish Cross broilers in eight

weeks was like the sweet spot of economies
of scale to make it worthwhile for my

time and for it to actually be a And so
I knew that's where I was going to start.

So we moved over to the island and we
found the cheapest, tiniest, smallest

little house we could afford in town.

And I'm five minutes away from some rural,
a rural kind of circle route that goes

outside between the mountains and town.

And so I started with a five acre
field, and then I partnered on

another 12 acre property where I was
able to raise some pigs, and now my

portfolio is up to about 10 properties.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: So you were able
to go out and get those properties leased.

Ben: Correct.

So the four principles that I
operate with are things that I've

learned from Joel Salatin and
all of these other guys as well.

A lot from Greg Judy and his lease
land model is first of all, detach

the land ownership from the farming.

So, the 10 properties I manage now
often at the farmer's market, people

are like, yeah, but don't you wish
you could own some of the farmland

or the farm that you work on?

And I tell them realistically here, it's.

The ten properties I work on, I did
the math the other day, and I've just

picked up a bunch of new properties.

27 million dollars worth of
real Yeah, I would love to own

the I would really love to.

I never will own any of it here.

A statistic that I found recently in doing
some research is that north of Williams

Lake, so if you look at the province
of British Columbia and put a dot in

the middle, you'll hit Williams Lake.

North of that is like, Steve Kenyon.

He's about at that kind of, er, that
latitude And so, north of there,

farmland in British Columbia sells
for 1, 000 to 5, 000 per acre.

South of there, if you exclude
the Okanagan, which is like wine

territory, the Lower Mainland, which
is like the Vancouver Greater Area,

and Vancouver Island, if you exclude
those, south of Williams Lake, farmland

goes for 5, 000 to 20, 000 per acre.

And in the Okanagan, the Lower
Mainland, and on Vancouver Island,

farmland sells for hundreds of
thousands of dollars per acre.

Right now, there's a number, there's
three or five farms, beautiful

farms, that are about 40 to 80
acres, and they're selling for close

to three million dollars or more.

So, I am never going to own the
farmland here, and if I want to

farm here, I'm going to lease.

And I was at a memorial for for Don
Witek he was an old sheep farmer here.

And I met this other couple John
Buchanan, and he runs a sheep operation

down in the capital in Victoria.

And we were talking and his
wife was telling me, we do

it a little bit different.

We lease all of our farmland,
we just own a little bit of it.

Home spot.

And I said, that's not different to me.

That's what I'm doing.

And they own 40, they operate 40
properties and it's over a thousand

acres in a very suburban community.

And that was, and the, and I cannot
imagine what the real estate would So,

a thousand acres and, I would think it's
got to be, a hundred million dollars

worth of real estate that they farm on.

But it's so wonderful to see someone doing
just what I'm doing on Vancouver Island.

And they've been successful at it for
many decades and so it's entirely possible

and though people do think it's weird
them admitting we do it differently.

It's not that different and it's it
works and so many people around here

don't understand that share land thing,
but I describe it as, in the prairies,

the cattle farmer is renting ground
from the grain farmer next door, and

the grain farmer is renting ground
from the cattle farmer next door.

It's just a share of resources for
those who specialize in what they do.

And for me, it's grass based livestock.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: One thing
you mentioned there is something that

goes through my head quite often, and
I don't know if it's Alan said it or

who, as you alluded to, it may be along
the same lines, but managing the land

is more important than owning the land.

Ben: Absolutely.

I believe it is Greg Judy's favorite
quote that he heard from Alan that

really changed his paradigm, that,
that it's not about owning the land.

It's about controlling the
land and controlling it

through management and care.

And that's what I always say is
that like, I'm a landscape manager.

I am an ecosystem developer and the tool
is the livestock and I monetize myself.

I don't even charge these landowners.

I monetize myself through
selling at the farmer's market.

The by product of my land management
services is this meat that lands

in the freezers and that we can
sell to our community to feed them

the best darn meat they can find.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Yeah I
love that philosophy, and I have

to say, I was not raised that way.

I was Growing up, my grandparents,
my dad, they always leased a little

bit of property, but the home base
was bigger than the leased property.

And so, I always had this, I've gotta

Ben: buy the

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: land.

And it took me a while to make
that shift into leasing land is

a great way, it's a great way for
anyone to get started and to go.

Getting out there and finding
that land is the hard part.

But That mind shift from going out, I
gotta go buy that land really frees you

up and helps you get started much earlier.

Ben: Yeah, it's all about investing
as much money into the cash flowing

enterprises as you can, and as little as
you can into infrastructure and the land.

So the four principles that I farm with,
I started getting into them, but we

really dove deep on the land leasing.

So the four principles is detach
the land ownership from the farming.

The second piece is mobile infrastructure,
both in the sense that you can

bring infrastructure to a farm, use
it, and move it to another farm.

But also, of course, the
mobility of our animals.

participating with nature, not
mimicking, participating with nature

in these natural cycles of migrating
the animals across the landscape.

So that's lease land, detach the land
ownership from the farming, mobile

infrastructure, modular infrastructure.

So in order to grow my sheep flock,
I add more electric nets and more

reels with my cattle and more
chicken tractors with my birds.

So modular and that allows you
to also keep it human scale.

So most of my infrastructure is
small enough to pull by hand.

Like I'm not going to build one chicken
tractor that needs some vehicle to pull.

I'm just going to build more 16 foot by
12 foot tractors that I can pull by hand.

And then the last piece is holding
on to as much of the food dollar

as possible by direct marketing.

So doing as many of
the things as possible.

So those four principles I
demonstrated through my quail project.

Detach the land ownership
from the farming.

I borrowed neighbors backyards.

Today I lease as many fields
as I can in the community.

Mobile infrastructure.

I had my quail tractors that I
literally built in my driveway and they

didn't fit in the back of my wife's
electric car so I had to walk them

down the road to these properties.

Modular infrastructure.

I started with one property there and
one quail tractor and now, and then

had five by the end of the summer.

Just like today, I've been adding leased
land and adding more chicken tractors

this year, and then direct marketing.

My quail project, there was a car free
day, which was like a one day farmer's

market, and they didn't have food permits,
so I sold memberships to the quail club,

and when you bought a membership, you
got your first set of eggs for free.

Well, that's it.

Today, I do three farmers markets
a week, and then work with a couple

private chefs, and have delivered
to restaurants in the past.

And I sell chicken, turkey, lamb,
pork, and beef, so that I have

the diversity on the landscape.

And now that I have the diversity in
the landscape of these five species,

and I'm overburdened with doing too
many things, I can't figure out which

one to quit, because they all have a
niche in the ecosystem, and they all

have demand at the farmers market.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: I would
love to dive into a little bit more

about particulars like your chicken
tractor the design of it and etc.

But you bring up a important point there.

You're going three farmers markets.

You've got all these different
livestock that you're taking care of.

How much time is it taking you each
day to take care of your livestock?

And I know you, you mentioned
like multiple chicken tractors,

so you're getting more.

How are you fitting
all that into your day?

Because it sounds like a lot.

Ben: Yeah, well, often people
are asking me Oh yeah, how many

hours a day do you work, or how
many hours a week do you work?

And I just answer simply,

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: all

Oh yeah.

Ben: Oh yeah.

it was my mountain bike career, or
now, like it was a lifestyle, like I

woke up, Breathing, thinking, drinking,
preparing, everything was in preparation

for that sport and now it's for being
a farmer, like, this is, I'm hyper

focused, maybe it's a product of ADHD or
autism or, just me being me is obsessive

and I'm obsessed with regenerative
agriculture and farming and so my every

waking moment is spent doing something
towards moving this mission forward.

And I have such big goals that, that
there's, a farmer's work is never

done, and that's truly the case.

Now, okay.

One thing that I like about podcasts,
and podcasts that I like, is they

go into specifics, and they they
give, like, tangible, real world

examples of things that can be

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh

yeah.

Ben: So, so realistically, I do
three farmers markets a week,

which is a Saturday morning market.

And so that gives me the afternoon chores.

A Sunday, a big Sunday market and
that gives me the evening for chores.

On Monday and Friday, we process poultry.

And so that's, My crew is getting to
the point where I can leave them for

most of the day, I still have to be
there to turn on the scalder at 6 30 a.

and usually do bagging from 5 p.

to 11 p.

or something.

That's what I was doing last night.

And then that gives me basically
Tuesday and Thursday to do everything.

And then I have a Wednesday
farmer's market midweek and

that's an afternoon market.

So yeah.

And then Thursday nights, I also do
a radio show on the like local radio

station, which is the tuning fork
and we talk food and farming and my

vegetable farmer friend is my cohost,
Aaron Grant, shout out to Aaron.

And so the tuning fork is super fun.

And it's a time when we
get to just sit down.

Sit still, but still end up talking about

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: yeah,
that sounds very interesting.

Now let's jump into
your chicken operation.

Just I appreciate you breaking
down your schedule like that.

Now let's jump into
your chicken operation.

You mentioned a while ago 12
foot by 16 foot chicken tractors.

Are you, what design are you

Ben: using?

Yes, sir.

So, I bought the designs for Darby
Simpson's Chicken Tractor and for

John Suskovich's Chicken Tractor.

chicken tractor, and read everything I
could on the Joel Salatin chicken tractor.

And after all these, books dedicated
to how to make exactly the same chicken

tractor of them, the last sentence
is always, but it always depends on

your context and what's right for

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Yes, exactly.

Ben: So I combined a
couple of the designs.

So the base of my chicken tractor is
like a Joel Salatin chicken tractor,

which is made of 2x2 construction.

I went a little bit bigger than
Joel Salatin, which is, his are

11 foot by 10 foot, I believe,
and mine are 12 foot by 16 foot.

Now one thing that's peculiar is that
everyone pulls their chicken tractors

the long way, whether it's the Whether
it's the Rangemaster greenhouse type

chicken tractors or small ones, everyone
seems to be pulling them the long way.

It just made sense for me to pull it
the short way, so I pull it the 12 foot

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: direction.

yeah.

Ben: Now I have a back injury
previously stated from my mountain

bike trail building career.

And so, there was no way I was
bending over to get into the

Joel Salatin tractor to pull him
out or whatever to service them.

So, I built a John Suskovich tarp
tent top with half inch metal

electrical conduit bent as the
archway for my chicken tractors.

So they have like, an eight foot
peak and I can walk comfortably in

them, and I can hang an automated
water, like a bell water, one bell

water per chicken tractor, as well
as two feeders per chicken tractor.

And so that allows me to pour two bags
of feed to them after moving move the

chicken tractors, and then, and pour two
bags of feed at the peak and the goal is

for them to just about, or have just run
out of feed by the next day's feeding.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Very good.

And you read my mind, Ben,
because I was about to say,

did you go with a two foot one?

Can you walk in it?

Because for me, I like
being able to walk into 'em.

But like you mentioned and you're
gonna have to help me on John's

last name from Farming Solutions.

Ben: Sus co

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: you go.

I'm gonna go with that one.

Sus

Ben: co vich.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: His his
plan is kinda small but it does give

you the walk in there, so you've
increased the walk in ability.

Ben: for sure.

And his, I think, is
only 7 foot by 4 foot.

And I just can't imagine the inefficiency
of pulling something so small.

Like, my chicken tractor is
on a flat but bumpy field.

I can forget to put the
lawnmower wheels on the back

and I can pull them without it.

But I do have two wheels and
the wheels are actually one

of the most expensive parts.

They're about 50 a piece, but they're 12
inch rear wheels off of like a Husqvarna

Oh, yes.

And though those on a couple carriage
bolts sticking through the sides of

the two by four two by twos is enough
to just elevate the back side of the

chicken tractor and then pull it along.

So, if we were to move to the
next species, I also raised

turkeys in a similar system.

So my chicken tractors are enclosed
with the three quarter inch hardware

cloth around bottom and hardware cloth
in three quarter inch is small enough

that the predators are not getting in.

Well my turkey tractor is the
same design only it does not have

the mesh around the outsides.

It's just open sided.

So the turkeys can come in and out.

And then I use an electric net an
electric net goes around the turkeys.

I also put an electric net around the
chicken tractors for the primary purpose

of keeping the livestock guardian dog in.

Now part of my context, of course,
everyone's context is different, is

that I farm, I'm the suburban rancher.

I have these five acre fields that are
surrounded by one acre luxury homes.

So, part of my context is that Livestock
Guardian Dog gets dropped off in

the morning, and then about 10 p.

I pick him up and bring him home, and
he sleeps in the mudroom, dog room.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553:
That's an interesting

Ben: the,

They, the neighbors would not appreciate
him barking all night, so instead my

neighbors here in the neighborhood have
to, yeah, deal with Kino the Barker.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Those livestock
guardian dogs, they love to, to bark

for, long hours during the night.

but I think you, you pick out a really
good thing there because if you left that

dog over there in that barking, you're
going to cause those homeowners over

there some disturbances that they wouldn't
be happy with and that might affect

your ability to run animals over there.

Ben: Exactly.

Exactly.

Definitely, part of the context
is being a good neighbour.

I have a brochure that I've printed to
hand out specifically to neighbours,

to invite them on a farm tour, to offer
them a discount on a Thanksgiving bird

and, even offer them a free chicken,
and just make good neighbours, because,

let's be honest, that livestock guardian
dog if I'm not supervising him when

I'm moving the chicken tractors and
moving that fence, sometimes he wanders

into the neighbourhood, and sometimes
the cows are in someone's backyard

and one time my wife's pot bellied
pigs got out of that field and went up

the road and there was thousands and
thousands of dollars worth of manicured,

meticulous, like, oh man, the amount
of damage they could have done, but

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: they

Ben: didn't.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, well, good.

Yeah.

Ben: So I've been lucky.

I've been lucky.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: How many
chickens are you putting in a tractor?

Ben: A hundred is a perfect like the
humane ethical standards for Cornish

Cross birds is like two square feet
per bird in an industrial barn.

So I try and keep that two square feet
per bird, but honestly like I stuff

them filled with like 150 sometimes
and just like start harvesting

them early so that I'm decreasing
that population as they get bigger.

And I harvest, because we have a small
crew who are just getting trained up.

We only harvest about a hundred
birds a day and on batches of.

Five, 600 now.

So I originally was doing batches of 250
for the first year and then was doing

batches of 300 per batch three or four
batches a year for a couple of years.

And then last year started with a
couple of batches of 500 and this year

I'm like starting 700 birds and I'll
sell maybe 50 or 60 to, friends who

are also poultry processing customers.

And then so I'm finishing
like, 500 birds kind

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: of

Ben: thing.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: And then for
your turkeys, what kind of numbers

are you talking about with turkeys?

Ben: So an important thing to mention
both on chickens and turkeys is that we

have really powerful poultry marketing
boards here that are, the government

lobby organizations that are supply chain
management that, they dictate the amount

of production of poultry that's happening
in our province to serve the needs to

not to, and to keep the market stable.

And so that allows us.

small direct vendors,
is what they call us.

On the chicken marketing board
side, we're allowed to raise 2,

000 broiler chickens per year.

And on the turkey marketing board side,
we're allowed to raise 300 birds per year.

So those are my caps.

And so I do one batch of 300 turkeys,
and I harvest them all before, or

half right before Thanksgiving,
half right after Thanksgiving, and

then freeze the rest for Christmas.

And then for chickens, this year I'm
doing three batches of 500 or 600.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: okay.

Yeah Very good.

And you've answered my next question.

You're growing your turkeys for harvest
in the fall for the holidays, basically.

Ben: Yes, sir.

However, I do see the opportunity that
in order for the best management of the

grass, ideally, I would brood a set of
turkeys in February because my first

batch of broilers comes in March, and
then put them out on pasture the first

week of March, and then they would be
pro or heart or they would be fertility.

They would be fertilizing the field.

March, April, May, and then harvest them
beginning of June, so that spring flush

of grass would be bumpin with turkey

manure

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: it was.

Yeah.

And that's the amazing thing about,
if you've never seen a chicken tractor

or turkeys after you moved them, the
way that grass comes back is just

amazing with that chicken manure or

Ben: turkey manure

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: fertilizing it.

Ben: Absolutely, like, a batch of
turkeys is also more easier to manage

on pasture, Because you can use the net
to get into certain corners and do a

more even fertilizer and then also do
a lighter fertilization by just giving

them a little bit more space and then
controlling where they go by pouring feed

and placing waterers at different points
within that net to control their impact

and really cover 300 birds basically,
I'm covering like three acres and you

could definitely double that if you
wanted to specifically for the field

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Are you using
how many chicken tractors are you using

for your turkeys or your turkey tractors?

guess we should call them.

And then

Ben: Last year,

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: in one flock?

Ben: Yeah, I keep them all I keep
the turkeys one flock, but I never

cross chickens and turkeys, because
there's blackhead, which is a disease

that turkeys can get from chickens.

And so I have specific fields that
I only do turkeys on, knowing that

there's not been chickens there before.

And I keep one flock of 300, and I've
experimented a little bit with, and

would probably do more of this, is to
increase the economies of scale of doing

my chores every day for the turkeys.

But being limited to 300 turkeys, putting
like a hundred geese in there as well, I

could sell geese for the holidays as well.

And I know Luke Gross of Gross Family
Farm, he does a batch of turkeys

and geese together, and so I know
that he's having great success with

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: very good.

That's interesting.

Something I hadn't thought about.

But yeah, because you have that hard cap
on your number of turkeys you can raise.

Ben: Right, however, as a poultry
processor, no, no geese, please.

No, you.

No, thank you.

They're so hard to pluck.

Ducks are the same.

I don't know.

At this point I don't think you can
figure it out like a cleanly ducked

a cleanly plucked chicken Or is easy
a cleanly plucked duck or goose.

I don't think it's actually I think it's

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so we've talked about
your chickens and turkeys.

Let's move on to your next species.

Ben: Pigs in the forest so I have
forest pork on my menu at the farmers

market and my favorite question is
What do you mean by forest pork?

And being able to show it
to people is even better.

When people come out to a farm tour,
and we're walking out of the pasture and

into the woods, and they start seeing
evidence of, well, it looks like there

might have been blackberries here at one
point, and the ground is disturbed here,

and then you come around a corner, and
all of a sudden a herd of 30 hogs come

running at you, and stomp dead in their
tracks at two lines of electric wire.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is forest
pork, and in our, beautiful, rich

rainforest around here, the pigs in
the forest is just magical, and we have

the invasive Himalayan blackberry, and
spurge laurel, and and holly, and these

are all species that by pouring the
feed directly into the root bed, the

pigs just make stuff disappear, and with
the Himalayan blackberry, some of which

are six feet, eight feet tall, and When
they're through with it, like, goats

will step on the canes and eat every
leaf, and then you will have a mat.

of blackberry canes.

Pigs, they will first turn up the
root ball and chew on that, and then

they will knock the the vines down
and eat all the leaves, and then they

will just pummel the canes into the
ground to the point where they've

dried out and broken into nothingness.

So you see, you come into an area
that was, 40 feet deep and 100 feet

long of blackberries and then now you
just see a few canes on the ground.

the little bit of evidence that once
there was blackberries here and then

they changed the chemical composition
and physically till the ground and

the biological composition of the
soil which allows the latent seed bank

to come back in a way that is just
amazing to see what comes back next.

So I'm on to a new farm this year, and
so right now I'm building out, I've

got access to 8 acres of forest, in the
past I've had 2 acres of forest for the

pigs, and now I'm expanding that out to
right now I fenced about 3 and a half

acres just to get started, and then
we'll expand beyond that as we go here.

And this was ground that was previously
cleared probably 6 years ago.

Six or ten years ago and is grown up into
these bad blackberries and so and with

scotch broom as well And so i'm really
looking forward to renovating this forest

over the next couple years to a point
where then we can move on to a different

area of forest on this property And then
we can graze the cattle through there

because when it was originally cleared the
farmer and construction guy in town here.

He had planted a pasture mix So I
really can't wait to see that pasture

come back once we've done that
cleared the area of those invasives.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Now with your
pigs, you mentioned you had them on,

I think you said two acres before.

Did you, are you moving
them to that new property?

And are you able to graze your cattle
on that area where they were before?

are you still running pigs there?

Ben: I lost the lease on that other farm.

New owner came in and just
didn't understand the model.

And the new operation
is a hundred acre farm.

This eight acre forest that
I'll renovate is the first step

into a relationship with this.

And there's also 10 acres at the front
of the property that a Montessori school

has built on, which they're calling the
Montessori Farm School here in Nanaimo.

And and so it's a wonderful opportunity
for me to be farming behind them

and slowly incorporate more of my
production onto this land, but also

more of my activities into this

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, yes,
that is a wonderful opportunity.

I love that.

Ben: So the technical side of how I run my
pigs is there's a siding company that has

these wonderful 12 and 14 foot pallets.

And so I take these pallets
and I build a corral with them.

And so this time what I've done
is I've built a pad, and I need

the concrete to be laid next.

And put a grain bin in the middle so I
can have bulk feed delivered from our one,

the one feed mill we have on the island.

And then that is a central hub is this
pallet corral where when I'm raising

I basically keep four sows which
keep giving me two litters a year.

So that allows me to have, 60 to
80 piglets to market every year and

everything's farrow to and so I can I
have the central corral and then I can,

Run electric wires, two or three wires at
like six inches, 12 inches and 18 inches.

And then I can run paddocks.

So in the past I've had like one
acre paddocks and then subdivide them

with poly reels and step-in posts.

However, this time I've created
quarter acre paddocks a half a dozen

quarter acre paddocks around the corral

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, yeah.

Ben: so that.

And so it's more a permanent system.

And this is what on the Justin
Rhodes video when he goes to

visit Joel Salatin's pig system.

Is now that I've got the experience, I
know that for my herd size, that these are

going to be good size paddocks for them.

Now, the sizing of my paddocks has been
a bit random because and my handyman,

who's a carpenter he, it drives him crazy
that my paddock sizes are not perfect.

But I am going to use that to my advantage
that, oh, right now we're going to put

them in a smaller paddock because we
have fewer animals and then a bigger

paddock when they have more animals.

So just, let the land dictate where the
borders go instead of a tape measure.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Now you
mentioned there, you bring that

feed bin in, you talk about those
bigger pallets you get from a

company, and you mentioned concrete.

Are you putting concrete down?

Did I understand that correctly?

Ben: I'm just building a horseshoe out
of concrete that is just the base for the

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Oh, okay.

Ben: and then I will bucket feed out
of the grain bin to take it into the

forest to pour into the invasive species.

However, I do intend to build on the
platform, on this horseshoe of concrete

build little feed bunkers that will,
because the grain bin is in the middle

of the corral, So that I can make that a
winter, an emergency space, if I'm gonna

be running the pigs through the chutes and
having to sort them off, I can bring them

in there, I can feed them for a few days.

And then it, if something was to ever
go wrong, it's a fail safe that, okay,

right next to the grain bin is the feeders
that are on this dual purpose for the

concrete and so that's something that's
again, this being my third property

to run pigs on this is my innovation
the newest property in my portfolio.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Yeah, very good.

So on the chickens and turkeys
you are processing those.

How are you handling
processing for your pork?

Ben: For the red meat, for pork, lamb,
and beef, I use Lester's Butchery.

And a big thank you to Brad and Laura.

And so, Brad Lester was working at the
abattoir here in, on Vancouver Isla sorry.

Brad Lester was working here in Nanaimo
at a facility that he convinced the

old man to finally retire in 2020.

And so, that is meant that he went to
work for this facility in Duncan and

there was an older couple who was holding
on to that facility, they had bought it

from the family who had been it, and they
were holding it over to try and find an

operator, and so Brad did not have the
skills in business, he just didn't know

how to build the plan to buy the facility
here in Nanaimo, but this couple who

took it over, they, the other facility,
They were able to help Brad build a

business plan to be able to purchase it.

And so I'm really supporting them
and they do such a great job.

So that's an hour away from me still.

An hour south.

So it's halfway between me here in Nanaimo
and Victoria, that big center at the South

island.

yeah.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Let's go
ahead and move on to your lamb and

beef because as I look at the time
we need to move on a little bit.

tell us about your sheep operation.

Ben: An opportunity that came
from losing my main lease this

year and then seeking more land.

was two vineyards reaching out for
to us, and both of, who work with

each other, they want grazers to
manage sheep underneath their vines,

specifically during the off season,
which is from October until May.

And so the I think that this may be how
I can eliminate hay from my operation,

at least on the sheep side, because
they plant thousands of dollars worth

of cover crops for the benefit of
their vines, and it's more of a benefit

to them if it's grazed off instead
of them having to chop and drop it.

So the one orchard is over 50 acres
of grazeable area, and the other one

has multiple properties for another
at least 50 acres of grazeable area.

And, so this is Avril Creek and
Unsworth in the Cowichan Valley.

And Avril Creek is going to allow us
to use one of these on farm processing

licenses, which the provincial government
calls FarmGate Plus, which limits us.

To 25,000 pounds of live weight
harvested per year on the farm.

So that would allow us to do 250 lambs.

So we had a starter flock last
year, and I say we, because Fernando

Medina is my educated Mexican man.

Came here for school, met a
beautiful, wonderfully smart and

keen on farming Canadian girl.

And so, they're my shepherds
and they live down there.

And so.

Fernando has been with a starter flock of
about 18 ewes for the last year or more.

And he's decided, and I fully support
his decision, to be all out and all in.

So we're liquidating that flock,
which was a mix of, like, St.

Croix's and Katahdin's, and a
little bit of Dorper, and a little

bit of Barbados Black Belly.

And now we're gonna go
straight commercial Dorper's.

we're gonna take the trailer out.

probably out to Alberta where there's some
more big sheep auctions and buy a hundred

ewes in the fall so that we can put rams
from a colleague in the Small Scale Meat

Producers Association In Cranbrook, which
is on the other end of the province.

He has top quality Dorper flock that
are specifically regeneratively raised

and have been for a decade or more.

And so we'll grab a couple of those
rams and December 1st will breed a

hundred ewes and the ones that take
will be our breeding program and the

ones that don't will become the lamb
harvest next year and then we'll build

our flock from there and be able to
have a closed herd from there on.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: What drove
your decision to liquidate your present

flock and the plan to go into Dorpers?

Ben: Primarily fence jumpers and another
family that we partnered with who we

leased their 10 acres for summer grazing.

And they put half of their flock into
ours as a custom grazing operation.

At least a sample, a taste of it.

And so their flock was
really hard to manage.

Like fence jumpers like crazy,
lambs that were going underneath.

And then it was teaching everyone else.

And so, that, along with Fernando's
context being that he's going to have

his first child coming up here, and
so he wanted to, let's shut down,

let's get organized, let's buy a
little more equipment and just be

really ready for when we do want to

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: expand.

Yeah, Yeah, makes sense.

Those fence jumpers will teach
the others and that is no fun.

Ben: Yeah, and when you don't, when you
only have a dozen or two dozen, you can't

do the Greg Judy technique of any time
there's a fence jumper, you have a unique

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: eating

Right.

Yes, I agree.

Yeah.

Ben: But when you have a hundred
out there that all look the same, if

one jumps, you have a unique eating

experience.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: And in addition
to your sheep, you're also running beef

Ben: cattle.

Yes, sir, and I do so with a herd
share program, and so I wanted to

practice custom grazing here on
the island, but there's not big

producers that I can take cows from.

and so instead I went the other direction
in the supply chain to my customers who

all really want to support what I'm doing.

They always ask, Hey, is there anything
we can invest in or do something?

So I said, well, Let's start our herd
share program, which is something that

I've heard Greg Judy talk about, something
that he does with his landowners.

And so, they purchase a cow for
a set rate and then I go out

and shop for cows with that.

And then they pay a daily
service fee on their cows.

They pay a set rate that I
established for winter feed.

And then their dividend, if you
will, is the calf and that, or their

stock splitting if it turns into a
heifer calf that they want to retain.

So their options is, sell me a
yearling into my meat program,

keep a yearling, and start paying
grazing fees on it every year.

To harvest for their own freezer and
then finally keep a breeder, if it's

a heifer calf to grow their flock.

So I have seven seven cows in the program
five yearlings from last year, and a

couple new calves on the ground this year.

And and slowly growing that, but it just
allows me to get grazing and I do see

different opportunities for other ways
to mix the cattle operation, like by

bringing in stockers and things like that,
because the problem with the herd share

this past year in our first calving season
is when I asked all the customers, okay,

what do you want to do with your animals?

Well, we had four bull calves and
everyone said, oh, we want to keep

them, put them in our own freezer
and share them with our friends.

So now I don't have

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: anything for

Ben: my farmers

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: Right, yeah.

Ben: So I think I'll probably be buying.

It steers to finish buying them
in the end of winter and grazing

them through the spring and early
summer and then harvesting them

mid summer as our drought comes in.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: I love that
option, though, for that landowner or

that person that's invested to, to take
that calf and to keep it for their own

freezer, because that gives them some of
that pride of owning it and contributing

to RegentiVag and improving the land
and then reaping the rewards of it.

Ben: Absolutely, it allows people
who would love to be doing this.

to participate and see the work
on the land and do it in a way

that allows me to have scale or
at least build towards scale.

And so that's exactly it.

They do it because they support
regenerative agriculture and they

want to be participating in this,
but the only way they can is with a

little bit of money and interest and

support.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553:
I think that's wonderful.

Ben, it's been a really
interesting conversation.

Really have enjoyed it as we sped
through all the species you're

doing on your farm, but it is time
for us to change to our overgrazing

section, our overgrazing section is
small scale vertical integration.

Ben: Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh,

Yeah so in this I mean that, as
direct vendors we take on the five

big pieces of the supply chain.

We take on the marketing, we take on the
production, we take on the processing, we

take on the sales and the distribution.

And so each piece of these puzzle
is very important to holding onto as

much of the food dollar as possible.

And so right now my weak spot is probably.

the distribution, because I
just don't have enough time

to, to deliver door to door.

I don't have the infrastructure of
a walk in freezer yet, but these

are things that I want to get to.

And so I think about vertical integration
as meeting the needs of the farming

community, as well as your own needs,
but not at an industrial scale, but

as a physical farmer to farmer scale.

So the need for processing became very
important when, before 2020, in 2018,

we had five red meat processors on the
island and five poultry processors.

And I'm talking small scale.

And so, By 2020, we only had three
and three because two operators

on both sides had quit or passed
away within months of working.

So there was a need.

I didn't know where I was going
to get my poultry processed.

Both the facilities I was working at and
the other one I also used both shut down.

And so, that became my mission
in the beginning of 2020 to build

a poultry processing facility.

Now, in October of 2021, the
rules changed, which established

this Farmgate Plus license.

So an abattoirs license was for a fully
inspected facility where there was an

inspector from the government on site.

Then there's Farmgate Plus,
which is 25, 000 on farm, no

inspector, an annual inspection.

And then there's the regular
Farmgate, which is only 5, 000.

Pounds, but literally of 50 or 60.

Farmgate licenses, all
but one are Farmgate Plus.

And so, so I was trying to figure out how
to make that work, and at first I just

didn't think the economics made sense.

However, I was looking to build a
half million dollar shipping container

unit, which was a freezer, an operating
line, and an office and bathroom so

that we could be fully inspected.

And that would allow us to do, 300 birds
per day with a crew of six or seven.

Well, through working with, in fact,
working in the inspected facility

when it was slated to sell soon with
the inspector, we came up with this

plan after the rules changed, and
the inspector and I, working on the

table together, we were like, well,
what if we use the farm gate license?

And I said, you can't scale that,
like, 25, 000 isn't enough to

justify the equipment or a staff.

And, okay, how do we replicate that?

Well, what if we had Processing trailer
that could go set up on one farm, fill

the 25, 000, then move to the next
farm, then to move to the next farm, to

the point where this year we're going
to have four properties licensed, and

we're going to spend a couple months
at each of these farms, which will

allow us not to do 25, 000, but 100,
000, and that will allow us to have a

crew of four working two days a week.

And so I've done so with about 50, 000
to build the trailer and buy poultry

processing equipment from Mike Badger
the executive director of the American

Pasture Poultry Producers Association.

So I bought the equipment, built the
trailer into a clean room, and so

basically the kill happens outside and
the inside is the inspected clean And

then we just use ice to chill the birds
down and then send them home that night.

So this has been the first step into
vertical integration in my operation

is okay, now I've also built a separate
business which is the processing.

And now the Small Scale Meat Producers
Association is a provincial wide

organization supporting small farmers.

They got a million dollar grant to build
a brick and mortar abattoir for red

meat in the interior of the province.

However, the land drop through and
so They've now started building

trailers and they're building their
third or fourth one by now And they're

leasing them to operators And so the
first one that was built went up to

the north north of the province and
it did not do well over the winter.

So they're like, hey, do you want us?

Would you be interested and I was already
very interested in taking on one of these

trailers So by taking on that trailer that
will allow us to have a poultry trailer

and a red meat trailer You now, one guy
I love to listen to is Mike Calicrate,

and he's been on a number of times on
to the Ranching Reboot podcast, and

Mike Calicrate has ranch food drags,
and he has a on farm slaughter facility,

and then he has retail stores in the big
cities that are retail butcher shops.

And so he's hauling not the whole
animal from the ranch to the town.

He's harvesting on farm at scale,
and then he takes carcasses.

So, when you harvest a beef, 50 percent
of the live weight ends up carcass weight.

Well, why would you ship 100
percent when you could ship 50%?

And so he ships that to his urban butcher
shops to be distributed in the community.

So I see that as the next step for me.

Like, okay, if we can do on
farm slaughter, well, what's

our cut and wrap facility?

Now going back to our previous
conversation with Brad and Laura

who bought Lester's Butchery, I
asked them, look, you guys kill two

or three days a week right now, Do
you earn more killing or cutting?

Like we earn quite a bit more
and we are specialists as

butchers to do the cut and wrap.

So I said, well, in theory, if you
guys killed less days and my trailer

delivered animals to you to cut and
wrap, you would be more profitable.

They said, absolutely.

So, So between that and also an
opportunity to build, the local food hub

a place where like a Pike Place market
in Seattle or like the San Francisco

market, like, let's have a a year round
farmer's market or what's the next

step from going from farmer's market?

What's our next step?

Well, that would be a butcher shop that
we can focus on local on farm harvested.

niche product, a very small,
almost demonstration butcher shop.

So that's another venue.

That's another business that I look
to build in this vertical integration.

And then another piece of it is just
a food hub where we can have storage.

So after it comes out of that butcher
shop, I hope that butcher shop can be 50

percent of the product going out the front
door to in the hands of the end consumer,

but 50 percent going out the back
door to for farmers who can retail it.

The problem is storage.

So let's build a facility that's maybe
in a more rural area that is the locker

plan, the freezer the cooler space for
veg farmers, this communal resource.

And so when I'm thinking about
this vertical integration, it's

like, okay, what does my farm
need and how do I provide that

as a service to the community?

Because regenerative farming is.

It's so complex.

It's always a moving target.

With every decision you make, there's
so many different implications.

And so, it's very hard to train, and it's
very hard to teach, and to replicate.

And so, That's why I want to build a
farm that is big enough to create an

income for me and my family so I can
work by myself doing what I want to do,

which is moving livestock on pasture.

But then let's build these separate
businesses that are proven through

industry of all scales that are linear.

Like poultry processing is very linear.

It's very trainable.

It's very replicable.

So these other businesses are my
entrepreneurial outlet to do projects

that are services to the whole community
so my farm can thrive, but all the other

farms in the community can also thrive.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: I
think that's an excellent plan.

I'm just, I'm amazed.

I am impressed with your passion, with
you out and doing these things, not only

to help yourself, but to help others.

Ben: Yeah, like, most entrepreneurs,
they want to 10x their company

and then cash out of it.

Well, I want to build my farm.

my dream job, and then I want to 10x
how many farmers are in this And so

if my side hustle is building these
services that we all need, the other

thing about it is like, the example
of Brad, like, he's not the guy who

wants to deal with the government to
get these things set up and go through

the paperwork to set up a new business.

Well, maybe I have to be willing to
be that guy to establish a service

business in the farming industry.

Go through the red tape, and then once we
have an established facility, then we find

the introvert or the artisan who wants
to operate it and just put it in their

hands.

cal_1_06-25-2024_165553: I love those
ideas and I'm interested and I'm

eagerly watching, see how it goes for
you because I think that'll be great.

It is time for us to transition
to our famous four questions

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What is Grazing Grass Podcast : Sharing Stories of Regenerative Ag?