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Join Wendy Coulter as she interviews Stan Phelps, author of the 'Goldfish' series, exploring innovative brand strategies. Stan shares insights on embracing flaws, the Hummingbird Effect in marketing, and how small changes can lead to big results.
Learn about unique branding examples, the impact of experiential marketing, and leveraging small innovations to stand out. They discuss real-world success stories from Panera to DoubleTree, and delve into strategies for both B2B and B2C sectors. Discover how companies can differentiate by focusing on their unique strengths and embracing their 'flaws.'
Learn about unique branding examples, the impact of experiential marketing, and leveraging small innovations to stand out. They discuss real-world success stories from Panera to DoubleTree, and delve into strategies for both B2B and B2C sectors. Discover how companies can differentiate by focusing on their unique strengths and embracing their 'flaws.'
00:00 Embracing Flaws and Brand Building
01:19 Introducing Stan Phelps and His Journey
03:41 Experiential Marketing Highlights
07:53 The Moment of Truth and the Purple Goldfish Project
09:54 Small Innovations with Big Impacts
22:35 B2B Marketing Examples
24:28 Adding Value and Removing Friction
25:31 The Heartwarming Panera Story
29:27 The Impact of Customer Experience
33:16 The Value of Referred Customers
36:25 Embracing Innovation and Uniqueness
38:36 Strategies for Standing Out
45:36 The Power of Little Things
46:57 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Creators & Guests
Host
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
Guest: [00:00:00] So it is, it's, it's about understanding that a lot of times we try to fix our weaknesses and we try to push down our flaws. And the idea that the really [00:00:15] innovative companies and the ones that kind of think outside the norm realize that their flaws.
Are actually the things that make them stand out and that make them awesome. , [00:00:30] [00:00:45] Hi, I'm Wendy Colter and I help CEOs and marketing leaders unlock the hidden power of their [00:01:00] brands. For years, business leaders have focused on marketing tactics, but what truly matters is building a strong brand.
Wendy: Think of it like the Hummingbird Effect. Small innovations in branding can lead to surprisingly, big results in other areas, increased [00:01:15] valuation, stronger culture, and a marketing message that resonates today. We're diving deeper in the world of brand building, and I'm thrilled to have with me Stan Phelps, a fabulous author, keynote speaker, and workshop facilitator.
Stan [00:01:30] Authors a really cool series of books I'll call the goldfish series, covering topics including differentiation, loyalty, customer and employee experience, culture, technology, and innovation and purpose. I. I [00:01:45] connected with Stan initially in 2015. Wow. It was my company's 20th year anniversary and we hosted the High Five conference with the local chapter of the American Marketing Association.
I'm trying to remember, [00:02:00] were you president?
Guest: I was president, yes. 15 and 16. Yeah.
Wendy: That's what I thought. We had an amazing time at that conference. It was so much fun. Yeah. And I think what I love most about having gotten to know you and what you're doing [00:02:15] is that you have this simple approach to branding and marketing and that's focused on little ways to drive differentiation, increased loyalty, and promote positive word of mouth, right.
So today we're gonna chat with [00:02:30] Stan about how he has seen the Hummingbird effect in action as seemingly small innovations lead to big wins. So, Stan, welcome to the show. Yeah,
Guest: thank you for having me.
Wendy: Yeah, awesome. Well, I've got Hannah here with me today too. And Hannah [00:02:45] is my sidekick with Hummingbird.
And she keeps the conversation going with some recap as we go along. And so just want y'all to sure you to know who she is and why she's sitting in front of you. Excited to hear from you. [00:03:00] So I have two fun facts about you. Okay. I wanna start with, so one is that you have this amazing background and you can explain it a little bit better.
Sure. But I think you had like a logo that could be seen from space
Guest: for KFC Yeah.
Wendy: That you [00:03:15] created. So that's help launch
Guest: the new logo for, for KFC. Yeah.
Wendy: That is an amazing story. So big. You could see
Guest: it from space and I know that 'cause we shot it with the Google satellite, 650 million media impressions that went viral.
That is, [00:03:30] we did it, we did it crazy. It was called the Face from Space. So it was, it was the kernel and we did it out near Area 51 in Nevada and yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, I used to do really kind of larger than life [00:03:45] experiential marketing.
Wendy: And that was when you were at Synergy Experiences. Synergy, yeah.
Experiences. Yeah. Yeah. That is awesome. The other thing that I think is really cool is your background with sports marketing.
Hanna: Mm.
Wendy: Let's see, baseball, tennis. [00:04:00] Golf. Golf.
Guest: Yeah.
Wendy: Yeah. And so we, we might have to talk about World University games 'cause that's a project that we're working on with Oh, okay.
With Hill Nice. With Hill locally, bringing the World University games to the state of North Carolina in [00:04:15] 2029 and we're in the midst of it. And so yeah, it's really
Guest: exciting.
Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. So what did I leave out? I did my two fun facts. So tell us about you, Stan.
Guest: So I started my career on the agency side with a [00:04:30] group called IMG, international Management Group.
And then I went to the brand side with Adidas for about nine years. Part of that was working with the New York Yankees. Part of it was managing global [00:04:45] tennis. For, for the brand. And then I came back to the, I was living overseas for a while in Amsterdam. I came back to the States and I worked for a couple years in golf with the PGA of America.
And then as we talked about some of those fun activations, I [00:05:00] spent about nine years with a group called Synergy out of, out of the New York metro area.
Wendy: And I think I saw another project that you have presented at one of your talks, in the middle of Times Square. Okay.
Guest: Yeah. [00:05:15] We, we once put a 40 foot Viking ship into Times Square and it was for Walmart to launch all of the merchandise for a movie called How To Train Your Dragon.
Yes. Do you remember that movie? Yeah. Love
Wendy: that movie. Yeah.
Guest: In, [00:05:30] in just around the corner in Bryant Park for Starbucks. We rebuilt the original Starbucks for just one day.
Wendy: I think I remember when that happened to launch,
Guest: launch Pike Place Roast and Howard Schultz called it the largest [00:05:45] and the loudest event in the history of Starbucks.
Yeah, and, and those events were great. Some went viral, some won awards, but they weren't sustainable and they weren't scalable. [00:06:00] And I thought there had to be a better way. Moving forward in marketing. And all I knew is I was part of the problem and no nowhere near the solution.
Wendy: But those are those projects that as marketers, like we dream of [00:06:15] doing stuff like that.
Right, right. It's larger than life. It's huge budgets. Yeah. I always kind of question. And I'm curious to ask you whether the ROI in the end, everybody wants to measure that now, right? Right. [00:06:30] So, you know, is it disappointing or is it just that you don't know and it's more brand awareness or like what, what happens when that question gets asked at the end?
Yeah,
Guest: it is. A lot of it is measured through media impressions. So A CPM [00:06:45] type of equivalency and. You know those, again, those events were fun, but they weren't scalable and they weren't sustainable. If you were trying to get earned media coverage, you were at the whim of whatever was happening in the world, [00:07:00] right?
You could launch the biggest thing ever and something happens in the world news and it just dominates and false flat.
Wendy: There's all those people from other planets that see your logo, logo from space that we [00:07:15] can't, we can't do the analytics on that.
Guest: One of, of my fa, one of my favorites, and this is for Eminem's, we, and it was to help launch a website where you could create your own avatar of yourself as an Emine Eminem.
So we created a seven [00:07:30] story tall Statue of Liberty, Eminem. Put it on a barge and floated it right into New York Harbor, right in front of the actual statue. That's cool. Yeah. But, but, but here's the thing. I mean, again, it was, I thought [00:07:45] that stuff, even though it was effective Mm-Hmm. And sometimes it was thrilling to do, I just realized that it wasn't sustainable.
And so I had, I had about 15 years ago what I call my moment of truth. That led me [00:08:00] to start a project that ended up becoming a book and has subsequently come a whole book series. And I, and I'll, I'll give you the short story, is out with a colleague, we're about to go to a networking event. We were both on the business development side for the [00:08:15] agency and we're at this rooftop bar in Manhattan and we're waiting for people before going to this networking event.
And I noticed this older gentleman sitting across from us by himself and he's obviously waiting. And so we strike up this [00:08:30] conversation about the etiquette of waiting. And this guy said to me, he said, waiting and we talked about being on time. He goes, no one in life is ever on time. And I go, I was dumbfounding.
I'm like, wait a second. I've been on time [00:08:45] before. And he stuck his finger in my face and gave me the finger wave and he said, no. He goes, he goes, he doubled down. He goes, in fact, he said on time is a myth. He said, people in life are either early or they're late, [00:09:00] and I'll, I never forgot that I went home to Connecticut where I was living that night, and I thought to myself that same thing applies in marketing and so much about marketing is about the prospect.
And I thought n not enough about [00:09:15] marketing was about the customer. And this idea of, you know, either being early or late, never meet, being on time was similar to meeting expectations of your clients and customers, and that nobody ever [00:09:30] truly meets them. You either exceed them or you fall short. And so, given the choice of doing a little bit more or a little bit less, i, I specifically started to look for companies.
That did a little more little things [00:09:45] that could truly make a big difference.
Wendy: So that's a great segue to talk about a hummingbird effect. Yes. So, are you ready? Let's do that. Sure. Absolutely. So tell me about a specific instance where a seemingly small [00:10:00] change in a marketing or branding strategy led to a significant positive outcome or results for a business Sure.
That you've been a part of.
Guest: Sure. Well, I'll, I'll say it personally for myself. So I talk about the importance [00:10:15] of the experience. I talk about the importance of being different, and I think especially in business, when you meet someone for the first time, it, it's maybe not as standard as it used to be, but you would always exchange [00:10:30] business cards.
And I thought to myself, you know, do I do the, the typical, you know, blank on one side? I'm like, no, there's no way I'm gonna do that because it's not true to who I am. I want something [00:10:45] that's gonna be like that first handshake that's gonna make that great first impression. And so I, my name, my company to this day is, is Nine Inch Marketing.
And so I created a Tri-fold [00:11:00] business card that would fold up with my logo, and it was a functional logo. And the, the idea is simple behind nine inches. It's simply the distance between the stem of your brain. The top of your heart. [00:11:15] And so the goal of any, any great piece of marketing or great experience that you create is about reaching the heart of your customer.
And so I love that. But as much as I loved the nine inch [00:11:30] theme, that it was kind of counter to my goldfish series. And so I wanted something different and I was really at a crossroads 'cause I love this. As kind of that great first impression, and I'll never forget it. In [00:11:45] 2015 I was at a conference and I saw this example of what's called a mini book, and so I ended up creating a mini book, but it's specifically has a business [00:12:00] card in the mini book, and I'm like, that is as an author.
That is something for me that I want to be able to have as a signature thing that I do that's different from anyone else. That really [00:12:15] tells the story of me as an author and the why behind what I do. And so I put it together. It's part color, part black and white. It's kind of a neat piece. And I've now over the last nine years, [00:12:30] given away over 10,000 mini books.
Wendy: That's awesome. Wow.
Guest: Yeah.
Wendy: That's awesome. And so talk about the results of that. Talk about that, how that has made a difference in your mind.
Guest: Well, [00:12:45] I, I wanted to be very specific with a business card. I wanted to look at it almost like a Trojan horse, right? Most people, when they get a business card, maybe they, they connect with somebody on LinkedIn and they chuck the card.
Well, I [00:13:00] know as a speaker, I'm only relevant. When somebody has an exact need for a keynote or a workshop. And so I wanted this to be able to, something that people would hang on to and go, oh, I remember that guy with that [00:13:15] card. And for them to go into the file or the desk drawer and be able to pull this out.
And so I've had many instances with I've met somebody and five years later they're like, oh, we, we thought of you and we pulled out your. [00:13:30] Your card. So it's been, it's been a real, it's been a real great vehicle for me. That's, that has a lot of legs to it.
Wendy: Well, I think that's a always a great goal in marketing is to leave something [00:13:45] behind that they hold onto.
Right. Instead of it going into that vertical Right. File under the desk. The circular
Guest: file. Yeah.
Wendy: Circular file under the desk.
Guest: I, I, I'll I. When I, my first agency that I worked for, IMG [00:14:00] was, was founded by a guy named Mark McCormick. And he was really a pioneer within sports marketing. In fact, he was famous 'cause he wrote a book called What They Don't Teach You at Harvard Business School.[00:14:15]
And he was just a pioneer. Anyway, he, he would always say, you never go in, this is old school. You never go anywhere without a pen or a business card. I always remembered that as a little bit of advice. In fact, I met my wife in [00:14:30] the airport in Amsterdam, and I, it just, I had known her from all the way back to high school and we just ran into each other.
I gave her my business card, and lo and behold, a year later, she's moving her [00:14:45] office. She finds my card, she reaches out to me. And we just last week celebrated our 20th winning anniversary, so That's awesome. I credit it to the, there's some business card. Yeah, there's some
Wendy: success of the marketing. Right?
Right. It touched the heart. [00:15:00] Yeah, it touched the heart. So I think it's cool with the, with the nine inches right, that you've kind of taken. The, the length of the nine inches, turn that into a business card. Right. And so it [00:15:15] emulates, you know, measurement.
Hanna: Right.
Wendy: Which I think is really interesting too.
And just a great story about touching the heart. I think that's what we're all trying to do as marketers. And it's interesting how difficult that is. You talked about [00:15:30] that. To me that being like the longest nine, the longest and hardest nine inches, inches in marketing to go at marketing to reach the heart.
Guest: And I, I think it's, a lot of times business tends to be very [00:15:45] transactional, and where can you go transactionally? You can't go. It's a zero sum game. And so it's the idea of how can you do little things in, in my belief, to go above and beyond the transaction. [00:16:00] To honor the relationship.
Wendy: So I think you did a little bit of research around these small things that companies are doing.
Can you talk about the research you've done around that and maybe a couple of great examples Sure. Of [00:16:15] where you've seen these small things have a big impact?
Guest: Yeah, so I, as I mentioned, I had that moment of truth and I didn't know it was gonna become a book, but I'm like, I'm gonna start to look for.
Examples and I had a blog at the time, [00:16:30] and so I started this thing called the Purple Goldfish Project. And I, I don't know our color.
Wendy: Our color, yeah. Purple. Yeah. He loves some purple
Guest: and, and a little bit of why I called it that. So I had [00:16:45] learned this word that comes from New Orleans and the word is called LANAP and LANAP dates all the way back to the 18 hundreds.
It's Creole, it means the gift or to give more. [00:17:00] So the idea is that when you did business with a, when you worked with a merchant or a business, they would always do a little something extra to again honor the relationship. And I just love that. And so [00:17:15] I started to look so purple ode to New Orleans 'cause it's one of the three colors of Mardi Gras.
And the goldfish, you know, is the idea of something small, right? And what we [00:17:30] talked about measurement before. What's fascinating to me is that the average goldfish is the size of your thumb. The world's largest goldfish is nearly 20 inches. You know, think about that. It'd be like [00:17:45] walking out of this studio right now.
And bumping into somebody who's three stories tall.
Wendy: Wow. Yeah. You know, five
Guest: to six times your size. It's like, that's crazy. How is that? I don't even know if there's another animal that rivals that.
Hanna: Yeah.
Guest: And, and so there are five reasons [00:18:00] why a goldfish grows and turns out those same five reasons, I believe apply to any organization.
And the, the, the only one of those five reasons that you have control over. Is genetic makeup. [00:18:15] So the things that you do to stand out and be different in the marketplace, and I, I'm a firm believer that you don't differentiate on what you do. 'cause if we're honest, a lot of other people do what [00:18:30] you do.
You might have a different formula for your product or service, but really how you differentiate it is why you do it. And I think more as importantly, how you do it. So how you can do [00:18:45] those little things to reinforce your why and to differentiate your delivery of that experience are key. So to get back to your example, so I, I, I don't know why I decided this, but I decided to collect [00:19:00] 1,001 wow.
Examples.
Hanna: Just a little bit.
Guest: Yeah. Just a little bit more. Yeah. I, I tell people and
Hanna: do that a little more. Yeah.
Guest: Right. I, I tell people I should have taken advice. That someone once gave me about cross country skiing. [00:19:15] Have you ever done cross country? Super difficult. Super difficult. So my friend told me about cross country skiing.
He said, he said, Stan, if you ever decide to do cross country skiing, he goes, here's the advice. He said, start with a small country. [00:19:30] And so I should never, I should never have picked 1,001. It was, I mean, 501 sounds great and so it took me 27 months. I. I remember after the first few weeks I had, I had [00:19:45] about 200 examples and I'm like, oh, I'll get this done in like six months.
But you run out, you know, you run out your, your connections and
Wendy: you killed it though. But I, I mean, really it sounds like it would take longer than that to do over a thousand examples. So you were [00:20:00] really focused on your goal. You know, thank God
Guest: for social media and, and I, I blogged about it. I syndicated my blog and people would come.
I got examples from all around the world. And so it, it can be as simple as like, I love the [00:20:15] DoubleTree Ex DoubleTree Hotel as an example, right? Right. When you check in, you get a warm chocolate chip cookie. And I've stayed at DoubleTree all around the world [00:20:30] and it's, all of the dough comes from Nashville, Tennessee.
So it's consistent. You know, warm. It's that nice, warm welcome and first impression. And I'll never forget the first time I remember my [00:20:45] very first business trip I was on. I went to Atlanta, our flight was delayed, we got in late, no dinner. I was so hungry I could have eaten my fingers. And I remember I almost did when they gave me that chocolate chip cookie, it made such an impression.
So [00:21:00] that's a fun example. Five Guys, burgers and fries is one of my hall of Famers. I. So I love the bonus fries that you get.
Hanna: Yeah.
Guest: Um, I love, you know, you, they're different than almost any other burger place that you go to. Your [00:21:15] burger doesn't hit the grill till you order it, and so it takes longer.
And one of the little ways that they kind of manage that waiting is with the free peanuts that you get. So yeah, they're, they're just a few of the [00:21:30] examples. One of the fun ones, I, I really like. Is from an ice cream shop in Minnesota. It's a place called Izzy's Ice Cream. And we think of sampling as something that we do to try to get a [00:21:45] new customer in the door.
But why not use that same principle with somebody who's already buying from you? And so this ice cream shop. It does this little small scoop of ice cream when you buy a scoop of [00:22:00] ice cream and they let you pick a second flavor and give you this mini scooping. Oh, that's
Hanna: cool. Yeah. And
Guest: the mini scoop is called the Izzy, and they've trademarked it.
It's amazing. You, you buy two scoops, you get two Izzy. And so I love it as a little [00:22:15] small way that you can give an additional taste to somebody who's already buying from you. And why don't we use that in marketing? You know, to take to, to just enhance the experience that we provide. How do we get somebody [00:22:30] buying more from us?
Right. You know?
Wendy: So I'm gonna throw you for a loop.
Guest: Sure.
Wendy: So we do a lot of B2B, and the examples you're given are B2C for the most part. Have you seen something that really [00:22:45] stands out with a B2B example? I've,
Guest: I've got a, yeah, I've got a whole. Deck that's B2B. And, and to be fair of the thousand plus that I got, because we're all, we all live in a B2C world for the most part, [00:23:00] right?
The vast majority, I mean, 90, absolutely. Probably 5% were B2C. But I'll, I'll give you a couple that I, I like. So one is, there's there's a [00:23:15] company called Cartridge World. Yes. So they. Back in the, you know, franchise would go out to businesses replacing toner in copiers. And so they do a couple small little things.
One is [00:23:30] they, when they, before they replace the toner, they will vacuum, vacuum it out, not, it's a small thing that they do, but you know, probably from a maintenance perspective that's important. They also, when they [00:23:45] deliver the new toners and install them. And it seems such a little silly thing, but whoever the office manager is, they will always leave a couple Tootsie Pops who with, [00:24:00] and they know, they always know the flavor that they like and a lot of times they're not the person thats maybe even ordering it, but it's the person that they deal with and to me it's just a little small touch to kind of thank 'em for, for their [00:24:15] business.
Hanna: Awesome.
Guest: Yeah. So, you know, there, I, I think some people say to me, well, is it easier to do B2C or is it easier to do B2B? And I think it's [00:24:30] much easier to do if you have 50 or 500 customers than if you have 5,000 or 5 million customers. So I think the same, the same intent is there is how do you do.
[00:24:45] Little things either to add value or little things to make it easier for them to do business with you. How do you remove friction, to be easier to do business with? And so I think there are plenty of options there. [00:25:00] I,
Wendy: [00:25:15] [00:25:30] So you gave the example at one of the talks that I heard you at about Panera, and it's just such an amazing.
Story that I wanna ask you to [00:25:45] share that one. Sure. And I actually think this is a bit unexpected, this story with Panera and what happened, right? And the unexpected part is who shared it and [00:26:00] how it grew. Right? So can you talk about Panera a little bit?
Guest: Sure. So the story happens a number of summers ago in New Hampshire.
And it revolves around a kid named Brandon Cook and Brandon [00:26:15] was visiting his grandmother in the hospital. Unfortunately, she was down to her last days. She had terminal cancer. In fact, she had pancreatic cancer, which I didn't realize. But it's maybe the worst [00:26:30] form of cancer you can get, especially at the end.
You, you get to the point where you can no longer eat. And here's Brandon sitting with his grandmother, and he's pleading with her as he watches her suffer to have something to eat. And [00:26:45] finally she looks, she looks up at Brandon. She says, you know, Brandon, she says, you know what I'd really like is some soup, but she, she probably had a smile.
She goes, not the crap they serve at the hospital. She goes, what I would [00:27:00] really like is a bread bowl of clam chowder. Now Panera is one of the only places you can go to reliably get that. And this happened during the summer. It was on a Monday [00:27:15] and during the summer, Panera only serves clam chowder in the bread bowl on, on Fridays.
But as I recount many times, you know, Brandon being the millennial he is, he simply reaches into his pocket and within one minute he's [00:27:30] found the closest Panera and he's on the phone. And he gets Sue the manager, Susan Forer, and he explains the situation to Sue and she says, Brandon, stop. She says, come on down to the store myself [00:27:45] and the team would be happy to help you and your grandmother out.
And so he drives the 10 minutes in Nashua, New Hampshire, and she gives him a couple of bread bowls of clam chowder. In fact, her and the team. Were thoughtful enough, they [00:28:00] gave Brandon A. Little thing of cookies for he and his grandmother to share. And as Brandon tells the story, he goes back to the hospital.
And for that short time, it kind of sustained her. It made her happy. And he just had a wonderful afternoon with his grandmother. [00:28:15] And as he's driving home that, that afternoon, and he thinks to himself, well, that that was just a small thing, but it meant so much to him. And his grandmother that he decided when he, he, when he got home that day, he was gonna write about the experience.
[00:28:30] And so he posted the story on Facebook. His mom, Gail reads his post. She's so moved by it. She copies it, she puts it on Panera's Facebook page, [00:28:45] and that's when something magical happened because just a couple days later, someone had forwarded it to me. Because of the experience and how touching it was.
And I immediately liked it. And I was the [00:29:00] 810000th, 801st amazing person to like that post. That post got nearly, you can still look it up to this day. It's got over 36,000 comments, many of which came from Panera's [00:29:15] own employees that said, this is a reason why I work here at Panera because they empower us.
To do the little things like this. And so what's what's [00:29:30] amazing to me is because I think it reveals something that's so core, yet so forgotten, in business. And it's the idea that we, [00:29:45] about 80% of how we view people comes down to just two questions. What is their intent towards us? And then what's their ability to carry out that intent?
And social psychologists will [00:30:00] call that intent piece. They call it warmth, and then the ability to carry it out. They label as competence. And that's amazing. 80% of how we view people, and this is how our brain [00:30:15] developed our survival. Dependent upon us answering these questions in a split second, and it turns out over 50% of how we view the organizations that we do business with.
Same to [00:30:30] questions. And so how are you doing the little things that speak to your warmth and your competence, right? How do you show little things that reinforce [00:30:45] your why? And how do you do little things to demonstrate your competence that you're easy to do business with? And I think that's what's lost a lot,
Wendy: especially in the world today.
I mean, retail's [00:31:00] so different customer experience is so different. But you know the story about Gail sharing that, you know, you gotta love a mom, right? But you don't necessarily expect. [00:31:15] That, that is what's going to lead to a big culture shift within the company,
Hanna: right?
Wendy: Where everyone is sharing, look, look at this.
This is why I am here. I. I think that goes to those unexpected [00:31:30] outcomes. Yeah. That we talk about Hannah, where, you know, yes, they provided great customer service right. To someone. They did something really nice, but probably didn't really expect it to go much further than that Sure. [00:31:45] Experience in that afternoon.
Guest: And let, let me share one thing, 'cause you, you mentioned unexpected, right? So in Panera is what's called a fast casual. Or A QSR. Right, right. So for example, [00:32:00] when Subway did their $5 foot long, it was the most successful promotion that they ever did. And the year that they put that out there, I think they grew like six or 7%.
That's massive. Yeah. When you talk [00:32:15] QSR or fast casual like that is off the charts. The year that Brandon Cook story happened. Panera grew almost by 20%.
Hanna: Holy cow.
Guest: 20%. Wow. Now, is [00:32:30] that just because of the Brandon Cook story? I don't think so. I think they were at a point where people were starting to really catch the brand and they were different in the marketplace, but it certainly
Wendy: didn't hurt.
Didn't hurt because I've looked at the numbers on that post. Yeah. And [00:32:45] it certainly didn't hurt no. To have that kind of viral share that is such, such a heart. Touching story. Right. Not, not something that the marketing team put out. Right. Not something that was a planned part of a [00:33:00] social content. Right.
Um, Calendar. Right, right. You know, and,
Guest: and think about every, you would, how much would it cost or what would you do as a brand
Wendy: to have that, to have a single post,
Guest: to get almost a million likes. Right. It's, [00:33:15] it's crazy.
Wendy: So tell us about, kind of how the experience of finding these thousand and one stories change your perspective on the way that [00:33:30] you look at experiential marketing now, and maybe what kind of advice you would give to marketing leaders or CEOs of companies to kind of shift that paradigm of, let's make our logo be seen from [00:33:45] space.
Guest: Right.
Wendy: Right.
Guest: Well, I, I. I tell people, you know, the latest stats is like they ask companies what's the number one thing that you're gonna compete on and research. Recently, by [00:34:00] Gartner said, almost nine out of 10 companies say the experience they provide now is gonna be the number one thing that they can compete on going forward.
Before I started that project, they had, they'd been asking that question for ages. [00:34:15] And you only have to go back 10 years ago. And only 36% of organizations thought the experience was the biggest thing. So I think there has been a shift. I think there's also a [00:34:30] simple, I think, I, I think the mathematics have changed such that it's really expensive to acquire new customers.
It's, and it's become harder and harder. To [00:34:45] get people into the funnel and get them acquired. And I think it used to be that people would look at, alright, we have a traditionally acquired customer and we have a referred customer. Well, they roughly have to be the same value to [00:35:00] our organization. And it's not even close if you take care of the customer that you have, and by word of mouth and referral that they bring somebody into the organization.
They stay [00:35:15] longer and they spend more up to twice the amount over their lifetime if they've been referred and as a function of staying longer, but because they've been referred themselves, what are they app, what do they tend to do more often? Refer
Hanna: us.
Guest: Refer, yeah. [00:35:30] And so, a referred customer, at least by my math, is almost, can be up upwards of four times as valuable as a traditionally acquired customer.
So I think the [00:35:45] mantra is take care of the customers you have and give them a great experience. They will bring you the customers you want. Now, I'm not saying that you, and I've always said this, I don't think you, I think traditional marketing [00:36:00] is absolutely key, but maybe the emphasis should be about 50 50 that you should be investing in marketing to your current customers.
And also marketing to prospective customers. [00:36:15] And I, I tell until that 50 50 at least focus is coming to, you know, that spend is there. My work's not gonna be done.
Wendy: So I think, I've also heard you speak [00:36:30] on innovation. I think you did a keynote for one of our clients actually. And you touched a little bit on innovation, right at that talk.
Can you just converse with me about [00:36:45] how you've seen, maybe what the most innovative activity you've seen is, or how you've seen innovation really impact one of these experiences in a unique way? [00:37:00]
Guest: Yeah, so one of my, one of my favorite books in the series is, is Pink, which is. Is really trying to, it's your favorite
Hanna: color.
That's one favorite color. I was excited that you brought it with you.
Guest: So it [00:37:15] is, it's, it's about understanding that a lot of times we try to fix our weaknesses and we try to push down our flaws. And the idea that the really innovative [00:37:30] companies and the ones that kind of think outside the norm realize that their flaws.
Are actually the things that make them stand out and that make them awesome. Or as we say in the book, the things that make them floss, [00:37:45] I love that. And, and so, you know, sometimes the opposite of a good thing is also a good thing. And so that's by far from getting people to think innovative in [00:38:00] innovatively.
We've got a great assessment in the book that helps people understand. Their strengths and their weaknesses, and the idea that every weakness has a corresponding strength. [00:38:15] And it, and, and that there are specific strategies. There's in fact eight strategies that you can do, to really embrace that uniqueness, the things that make you weird and different.
Wendy: Eight [00:38:30] strategies. Yeah. Okay. And does that involve any, involve any experimentation? Like is that part of. Those strategies.
Guest: So they're, I, I'll give 'em to you really quick. Flaunting. Flaunting is the idea of owning who you [00:38:45] are. Mm-Hmm. Webster's defines, defines it really positively to parade without shame, like to own who you are.
Loping is a strategy. So lop siding is not [00:39:00] only owning it, but doubling and tripling down. Yeah. On your weirdness.
Wendy: Okay. I was thinking my favorite emoji. That's like,
Guest: The uh, the A is antagonizing. You know, [00:39:15] you shouldn't try, you should never try to be for everyone. You should be very focused on your target, but we say in the book, maybe it's okay to push away those that you never wanted to be part of and you can have a little fun with it.[00:39:30]
While you're at it w is withholding, you know, one of the ways you can stand out is if everyone within your category does A, B, C, and D. The fact that you only do A, B and C [00:39:45] makes you different and stand out, not by doing more, but by doing less. There's the s is called swerving, and swerving is a little, it's, it's, we'll, we'll talk about micro weirding in a second, [00:40:00] but it, it's, it's, it's not, it's not a, it's not a massive jump.
It's not lop siding, it's not withholding, it's kind of what we call just a small swerve. Opposing is when everyone starts to follow the leader and [00:40:15] do what's normal. Some brands have the courage to go in the. Exact opposite direction. Right. And then, the M is micro weirding, which is very much purple goldfish.
It's small [00:40:30] things that you do either more or less to stand out. And then e is the latest in our 2.0. It's called exposing. And Exposing is owning everything that's said about you, [00:40:45] especially the negative stuff. A lot of the things that maybe negatively are said about you are speaking truth to your brand.
And so we, we have got great examples in the book of companies that have used their one [00:41:00] star reviews as the, the kind of window to their brand.
Wendy: Mm-Hmm. So we were just, talking about strategies around reviews recently in the office. And we [00:41:15] might need to read more about that.
Guest: Right, right. Because we,
Wendy: we've got a client whose reviews are less than stellar, that we're trying to talk through that process.
Right. Of what do you do with, with that. Right. Right. And [00:41:30] it's, it's kind of a tough category. And so that's really interesting.
Guest: Yeah. And, and especially if it's stuff that is true to who you are and what makes you different. Don't shy away from it. [00:41:45] So the the fun example that, that we, one of the fun examples we share in the book is the, the idea that there, there, I think it's 56 National parks, US National Parks.
Mm-Hmm. [00:42:00] Every one of the national parks has at least a one star review. A national Park. Park. Wow. I'll give you the one for the Grand Canyon. A hole, a very big [00:42:15] hole. One star,
Hanna: huh?
Guest: Right. Wow. In that and, and look, so if the national parks have, have one star reviews, what chance do you have for your brand?
Right. And so there's, there's a resort out in [00:42:30] Utah, it's called Snowbird. And I've been there. It's, it's, it's an amazing mountain, but it is like, it is like this, it is steep. I mean, there is no beginner or intermediate slopes. And so they've gotten a [00:42:45] lot of one star reviews, like, and they, they did an entire campaign and they have this most amazing photo of this guy at the mountain who's like chest deep in powder skiing.
And the [00:43:00] one star review was too much powder. It's like if you're a skier, there's no such thing as too much powder. Another one was like one star, like too advanced and, and the [00:43:15] review was we thought we were taking our lives into our own hands, skiing this mountain.
Wendy: And some people want to do that. So it's the perfect fit.
Right? Exactly. If
Guest: you skier snowboard, you're a thrill seeker. And what they've done by showcasing these one [00:43:30] star negative reviews is they've pushed people that they never want. To come to the mountain and they've also created a badge,
Wendy: right? For the people who do come, for the people that they
Guest: do want to come.
Wendy: Yeah. That's pretty cool. [00:43:45] Yeah. That's really innovative. Yeah. I love that. I love that. So what have,
Hanna: what have I not asked? Well, you talked earlier about not ever being on time. You either right.
Guest: You're either early or you're late. Yeah.
Hanna: And for larger [00:44:00] companies, I think just kind of going with what has worked in the past is kind of the status quo.
They tend to do that. Right? So what advice do you have for them to stop and look at that 1%? That they could do more when things are [00:44:15] working for them or. Like they, they think their on time, but they're not. Right.
Guest: Right. Yeah. Oh, you know, 97% of people cannot think outside the box 'cause they're so constrained by the norms of their [00:44:30] industry.
Mm-Hmm. And so it's really hard to do that, to get people to think outside. I just was reading a really good book. It's called Unreasonable Hospitality. And it's about a New York City restaurant that became the number [00:44:45] one restaurant in the world. And they have a principle, and I love this principle.
They call it ninety five five, and they're very focused that 95% of what they are gonna do is gonna be to the norm [00:45:00] and measured and proven, and where they're gonna stick with that. Mm-Hmm. But that allows them to take the 5% and to do stuff that's unreasonable. And you know, to make those investments and do those little touches that [00:45:15] make them stand out,
Wendy: that's neat to actually carve it out.
Yeah. And put the focus to it. Realize Yeah. And create, realize the budget for it and realize maybe it won't be perfect. Right. But that's okay. We'll learn from it and create something different. Right. Yeah. That's a great, that's a [00:45:30] great piece of advice. Just carve a little piece out. Yeah. To. Do be micro weird try
Guest: and, and so I'll give you a great example.
So one of the examples they, they talk about in the book was, you know, they're a, I think a four or five star [00:45:45] Michelin restaurant. And so there's a group of people from Europe that were over and they had, this is the last restaurant they were going to. They were a true foodies, and they had probably went to six or seven of the great restaurants in New York City.
And one of the. The general [00:46:00] manager overheard them saying that they were lamenting the fact that they were gonna have to go to the airport. And the one thing they didn't get was a New York City hotdog. Oh, you know, God bless 'em, that they wanted to try one of those water [00:46:15] dogs. And hearing that, sure enough, though, the GM goes out into the street, buys four or five hot dogs, brings him back to the kitchen.
And, you know, has the chefs in on the, the, this [00:46:30] idea and does a great job of kind of plating them. Mm-Hmm. And bringing 'em out and delivering them that little experience that's in that 5%. Yeah. That's cool. Of that unreasonable, how do you, how do you really.
Wendy: Well, [00:46:45] how do you even get the chef to agree to Right.
Put that on a place he bought it. Yeah. In the restaurant. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, anything else you wanna share that you can think of?
Guest: No, I, I think this has been amazing. I totally, I [00:47:00] totally buy into the hummingbird effect. That little things that you do can make a big difference. And the little things matter.
Yeah. And, and again, I. When it comes down to things [00:47:15] that reinforce your why or your warmth, and little things that reinforce your competence are the things that are gonna stand out.
Wendy: Well, I really appreciate your time, Hannah. Do you have Yeah, no, I thank you
Hanna: for talking about these. I [00:47:30] love hearing about the unique things that people do and how successful they are, and you have.
Thousand and one. Yeah. Now I, five examples. Nows that. Now we can talk about five.
Guest: Now, I, I tell people I, my second book, I did another thousand, so I I'm not so smart.
Hanna: Oh my [00:47:45] goodness. That was the
Guest: last time I made that mistake. Because when you write a, when you're doing anything, when you start to see hundreds of examples, you just start to see the patterns very clearly.
So for all of my books [00:48:00] going forward, and there's 11 colors. I've never done more than 400 after I did the first two books.
Hanna: Yeah,
Wendy: that's still a lot. It's
Hanna: great that you have that
Wendy: many examples.
Guest: 5,000, over 5,000 now. Wow.
Wendy: Well, and you know, Hannah's fairly young in [00:48:15] marketing and I think looking at examples like that is such a great way to learn.
I mean, you know, I applaud you for that because every time I've seen you speak. I've heard an example that I could take a [00:48:30] little nugget from.
Hanna: Right.
Wendy: And I think that that's so, so important that we continue to look at the history Mm-Hmm. And the examples of what's out there. And it helps us become more innovative as marketers to hear it.
'cause we're [00:48:45] not most marketers. Don't have a lot of time to go do that kind of research Right. That you're putting in front of us. And so I just applaud you for that and really appreciate that and so excited to have you here to share some of these [00:49:00] stories and we'll have to keep reading them. Yeah.
Because, with the number that you have. I mean, right. You know, every time I hear you, I hear another story, but it's just it's just amazing. So thank you. Thank you for having me so much for [00:49:15] sharing. And thank you to everyone who's joined us for this podcast. It's time for you to go out and find your hummingbird effect.