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We’re in the thick of it—two kids under three, owning two businesses, and barely enough sleep to function—and we’re asking ourselves: What does the good life actually look like? This space is our weekly attempt to figure that out together. Drawing from philosophy, theology, therapy, and the chaos of early parenthood, we’re exploring how to live well when life feels hard, how to be present instead of hurried, and why we’re the poorest and happiest we’ve ever been. Each episode, we teach each other something new and reflect on what we’re learning about the good life. We’re not experts—we’re just processing out loud, documenting our journey for our kids, and inviting you along for the conversation. It might be messy, it might be boring, but it’s honest. Welcome to The Good Life. Follow along at thegiellas.com.
Okay, so we're here for episode two
of The Good Life with the Gellis.
How
so we're gonna be following our, uh,
our normal schedule on this episode.
'cause last episode we did a
lot of explaining this episode.
We're just gonna jump right in.
What I'm, I'm just warning
everyone here right now.
I never remember anything
that happens anymore.
Nope.
So anything that I said
last week, it's all a blur.
Couldn't tell you.
Couldn't tell you.
Please tell me what I said.
Uh, I like that our mugs are coordinating.
Actually, I just realized that.
Oh, I thought you pointed somewhere else.
That's so nice.
Hello?
Hello?
Um, cheers.
So cheers.
What is your, um, metal
parenting of the week?
Oh, that's where we're starting.
Yeah.
What, what was, what was middle
about parenting this week?
Um, okay, well.
You were in Dallas Friday night and
I was so excited about having a whole
night to myself and which I did.
However, as I learn in parenting you,
the one night of fun you have, you end up
paying for it for the rest of your life.
So I'm still getting caught up on
Bin Rector from a few weeks ago.
Oh yeah, that's good show
because inevitably that will be.
The like anytime parents go
out, that will inevitably be the
worst night of your child's life.
So don't get too excited about anything.
Mm-hmm.
So basically Brandon was out for Dallas.
I'm still catching up on Ben
Rector sleep two weeks ago, and
Jones was awake from two to five,
2:00 AM to 5:00 AM and it was.
Awful.
I was almost in tears.
I was so tired, and he was so sweet
and happy and cute, which made it
like totally okay, but it was awful.
I woke Brandon up at 6:00 AM and I
was begging you to take him, but yeah,
because we went to bed at midnight.
Mm-hmm.
When I got back and chatting.
Yeah.
And then So you slept from 12 to two?
Yeah, and I slept from 12 to six.
And then you slept from six to 10?
10.
So I slept four hours.
So we slept the same amount.
Just broke it up.
So, yeah, that, I mean, just the reality
is the, the metal part about that is that
you still just get up and do it, you know?
Yeah.
If it was just Jones, if we didn't
have Camille, it would be maybe Okay.
'cause we could lay around, but.
We have a toddler and so she likes
to do all the the toddler things.
That's right.
So that's right.
Anyways, that was probably
the most metal thing.
So I'm still paying for not only Bin
Rector, but now that Jones is horrific
now like, but that stuff, you know,
um, is everybody gonna hear this couch?
Yeah, probably the couch.
Couch might be still, uh, I don't
even know what mine would be.
I'm thinking of.
I mean, last Sunday I
got thrown up all over.
Uh huh.
Or spit up on just like, it was like
all down my shirt when we were at Wild
Acre and then he spit up on me again.
Today at church, it's always you on this.
I, I was thinking actually earlier,
I was like, man, Jones hasn't
been up in a while, but he spits
up on me like pretty regularly.
I don't know what I'm like
holding him weird or something.
Oh, maybe.
So I don't know.
That's probably it.
Nothing crazy, I don't think.
I mean, that night was crazy and I got
up and I was super tired and we just
like laid down on the ground for a while.
I listened to a podcast night.
That wasn't your night.
Don't take that from me.
No, no, no, no.
But I mean, for you it was crazy.
Oh, okay.
And then I, I got him, so that was crazy.
Um, okay, so today, okay, well,
well, metal means like, this was
like so intense and I did it.
Uh, yeah, like metal, like hard rock.
And also you're just saying
someone threw up on you.
And if that was your metal thing, that
was, I didn't throw up that spit up.
That's like baby spit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But nothing, it wasn't it
you didn't have metal leak.
Yeah.
It wasn't super crazy.
Okay.
Yeah.
Uh, so we're gonna, uh, go to our
regular segment now of where you teach
me something and I teach you something.
Yeah.
And then we talk about what the good life
is this week, and I've got a great one.
Okay.
So what is your thing that
you wanna teach me today?
No, I want you to go first.
Okay.
Today I'm gonna teach Christine
about marketing because
that's what I do for a living.
So I guess, what is it answering?
Everyone's gonna fast forward to
what I have to say about therapy.
No one's gonna hear about marketing.
Just kidding.
Okay.
That's fair.
Just kidding.
Okay, so marketing is a very vague term.
Nobody has any idea what it ever means.
Can I say something really fast?
I don't even know what it means.
Yes.
What's really ironic is that when
I was in college, my major was
literally advertising and pr.
And now, and now Brandon's using
my major that I never used.
I was a creative writing major
and, uh, it was a great decision.
I'm glad I did that.
No, if you're raising
children, don't do that.
Huh?
Keep going.
What?
Maybe give them a major that's like,
now I guess it's useful.
They got me a job.
Several jobs, but then
you had to get an MBA.
Well, yeah, we might
need a fight about this.
Okay, keep going.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So fast forwarding, I got an
MBA because when you're creative
writing, when you have a creative
writing degree, it gets you a job.
It's very practical, but there is for
sure a ceiling on your income check.
GPT like Cha, GPT Church, GBTI love ai.
Um, I love Cha g.
Bt um.
But yes, AI definitely was a disruptive
force in the industry anyway.
The MBA was very, very useful because
it helped in give me other skills
that writing, uh, it can't give you
the income that you want anyway.
That's another story for another day.
Marketing.
Here's how I define marketing.
Mm-hmm.
Marketing is communicating
to the right person with the
right message in the right way.
That's my definition.
I've actually never said that out loud,
but that's what I think it's okay.
So it's just communicating.
I think that's right and you gotta
find the right person, uh, and
you're communicating a message to
them that they will understand in
a way that they will understand it.
So that could be like, uh,
for what, for what purpose?
Uh, definitely to sell.
So to sell a service or a product.
Um, but I, but I think like a lot
of things are, are marketing in a
sense that, like a good marketer,
yes, you're trying to like convert
a sale, grow revenue, et cetera.
But I think a good marketer just
knows how to communicate with people.
But yes, I guess there should be
a qualifier there commercially
communicating to the right person with
the right message in the right way.
Mm-hmm.
I'll do that.
To make a sale.
To make a sale.
Um, and I think, and so there's
a lot of like blocks in there
that important of selling.
Selling.
I'm selling like as a
marketing professional, you're
selling the idea of selling.
No, I'm selling whatever it is my.
Client or my business is offering.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What you selling?
You selling?
I'm selling whatever they're selling.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But to get a client, you
have to sell selling.
Yes.
Right.
So I'm selling that you are
gonna grow your revenue.
If you work with us, you
will grow your business.
That's the, uh, that's the aim.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So the right to the right person.
Mm-hmm.
This is very important.
It's the most important question when
you're doing like messaging or, um, you
know, marketing strategy or anything,
is who are you trying to reach?
'cause everything else after that
follows from who you're trying to reach.
So if you're selling therapy
services, what kind of
clients do you, are you after?
If I'm selling marketing services,
what kind of clients am I after?
Because you can say one thing,
10 different ways that appeals
to 10 different people.
Mm-hmm.
And so you want to attract
the right person and you
wanna repel the wrong people.
Yeah.
You don't want certain clients
or certain, uh, customers.
So, uh, so there's a lot that goes into
that, but that's the most important
thing, is who are you trying to talk to?
The second thing is, what
are you trying to say?
Because again, like how that person
that you're trying to reach, you
have to phrase that in a certain way.
So if you have a very technical,
sophisticated buyer, you have to
have very sophisticated technical
language or they're gonna think you
don't know what you're talking about.
Mm-hmm.
So things like that.
Or if you want to like be really
bold and you're like, I'm a bold
company and I do bold things and I
only wanna work with bold people.
And your, their language, your
campaign, all that kind of stuff.
Better be very bold, things like that.
Mm-hmm.
And then in the right way is it could be
video, audio, written text, it could be on
LinkedIn or TikTok or Google or YouTube.
So you gotta find the right way
to communicate with those people.
So I think that in a nutshell is marketing
and there's like a thousand other things
that dive into with all that, but mm-hmm.
That's how I would define marketing.
Do you like it?
I like the skill of communicating.
Hmm.
I think communicating is a very
useful skill and even though I have
a degree in writing and I've been
marketing for 10 years, I'm finding
communicating is very challenging
because you have to be very specific.
Um, and sometimes to be specific
you have to be long-winded.
To, to get at the specificity you're
talking about, but then people
don't have the patience to Mm.
Go through all the things
that you could say.
Mm-hmm.
Like for example, I've had clients
where they want reasons for why I'm
doing something or they wanna brief
or whatever, and I'll create the thing
to like explain what we're doing and
they don't bother to read it 'cause
they got a thousand other things to do.
And so it's like, yeah.
So I've said that to clients before.
Like, I can write you all
this stuff if you want answers
to all these questions, but.
I, you, you might not, you
probably won't read it.
So here's the, the 32nd summary.
Yeah.
Things like that.
So it's like, it's hard.
And then even in marriage or like
with kids or with friends saying the
wrong thing or saying it, you know, at
the wrong time or what, I don't know.
Just communication's really hard.
So I do like doing that, but marketing
is not what I like, get out of bed in the
morning for like super jazzed about it.
But I, I do, I have, I have
learned to really love.
Sales and clients and relationships
and building a team and figuring
out the right way to like package
this project together so that it
wins for the client, wins for us.
Uh, that's, that's really
great and I like that.
Mm.
But above all, I like to communicate.
I like to write.
Mm.
So maybe like, you don't like
marketing as an industry, but
more marketing as a relationship.
Is that fair to say?
Marketing.
Yeah, marketing as a
relationship and also like.
I think marketing gets a really bad rap.
Yeah.
As like you're just like a
used car salesman or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It gets a bad rap.
It's like, oh, it's
consumerist and whatever.
But the skill of marketing is,
is a, a very, very good and
useful and beautiful thing.
Um, but it's not for everybody
and it takes a lot of things
to be good at marketing.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of different skill sets.
And you're the customer.
The organization that is embarking on
a marketing journey has to get a lot
of ducks in a row for it to work well.
Mm.
And so I'm getting more interested
in that, like holistic, like
your organizational culture
has to run a certain way.
Your tech stack has to run a
certain way in order for your
marketing to be effective.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like more moving into, more
like management consulting almost.
Hmm.
And then I'm finding
most of my job is just.
Like 90% of what I do is just
moving information from one place to
another, from one brain to another.
And so writing has become a, a really key
thing that I do every day, which is fun.
I watch Camille do the same thing,
just moves one thing, takes
little things into this next
thing, to this next thing truly.
And AI helps with that,
not with Camille, not Cam.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, yeah, that's my shtick on marketing.
That's great.
Mm-hmm.
Something that's really
interesting is your trajectory.
I joked about your creative writing
thing earlier, but Yeah, how, when we
first got married, we had all these,
you had all these different buckets.
You had the like creative writing bucket.
You had the DTS Seminary bucket.
Yeah, seminary bucket.
Which, why is it called MABS?
Shut up.
Master of Arts and Biblical
Studies, master Bs.
That's what that now it's
Christian Studies, MA Cs changed.
I think they figured it out.
They figured it out.
Um, and then you've got your MBA, and
then you're working at a marketing
agency, a different marketing agency.
Mm-hmm.
And it feels now that you're doing
your own thing, that all these
different buckets that felt like
they wouldn't make sense together,
make sense together and yeah.
Now you're doing it.
Yeah.
I'm finding that more than ever in
my life, all the little pieces that
I'm interested in, um, the writing,
the, the theology, the finance, the
business stuff, it's all becoming
one thing and I'm really excited
about that, which is really exciting.
I think encouraging too, to remember
just for anybody's life, I think
especially in the twenties, the defining
decade as it were of like, man, I'm
interested in all these different things.
Is it okay for me to have
interest in different things?
Can these things go together and
Yeah, I think the more knowledge
you have in any area, the better.
Yeah.
I would say, uh, keep following
your nose and keep trying to
integrate the things that you like.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, there's one guy, like a mentor of
ours, uh, in the practice community.
He was like, what he does
is he priority stacks.
So if he's got these different
priorities, is there like events or
rhythms in his week or whatever where
he can put multiple of those together?
And so it's kind of like that,
where it's like you've got these
different skill sets or interests.
Can you stack them together
into a career or rhythm or,
you know, something like that.
Alright.
Anyway, so you, what are
you gonna, now that's all.
What are you gonna teach me?
Uh, I'm teaching you about
therapy, so, alright.
I'm in for it.
But I realize about
myself, my personality.
I'm more a responder, not a.
I'm not a riffer, like I need someone to,
to like, I would most prefer a q and A
format for this podcast or your therapy?
For this podcast.
Oh, a q and a.
Okay.
What is therapy?
How would you define therapy?
Wow.
Um,
so therapy is, I feel like I could
say so many different things,
but just on the surface, therapy
is two people meeting in a room.
Neither is really the expert, although
it ends up, well, I guess you could
say there's two experts in the room.
You could say the client is
the expert 'cause they're the
expert in their own lives.
And then me is the therapy expert.
But that doesn't make me, um,
I guess what would be the word for it?
Like, Like I'm not the expert
in the sense of like, I know
everything about that person.
Like I could guess patterns, I could guess
themes, but it's not in a way that I am.
Above them, I guess is
what I'm trying to say.
Like I'm not above them.
I'm not even necessarily guiding
them, although there is guiding,
but there's an ebb and flow.
So we could get into like all
the, the Freud's and the Youngs
and the whoever's of it all.
But I think for me what it comes down to
is just two people who are both experts
in different ways, seeking to see how
their own expertise like creates health.
Hmm.
So the, the objective is to be healthier.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
But I will say there's times where people
aren't actually that interested in change.
Hmm.
So certain clients aren't actually
interested in being healthier.
They maybe are interested in more,
feeling better, which is a goal.
Um.
Like a totally acceptable goal.
So some people, if it is, yes, I just
wanna feel better, but then actually
getting underneath is actually very hard.
Yeah.
Okay.
Tease that out.
The distinction between feeling
better and actual health.
Mm-hmm.
Feeling better is like a relief
of something like, oh, like I can
know, I don't have anxiety anymore.
I don't have depression anymore at work.
Like I'm not coping with alcohol or.
You know, drugs are this way anymore.
Like interesting.
Yeah.
'cause you, you would, you would
typically go see a therapist 'cause
it's like, okay, I'm feeling anxious.
Mm-hmm.
And I want to feel less anxious.
I should probably see a therapist.
Yeah.
But you're saying there's more than that?
There's more.
Okay.
Yeah.
'cause there's what is,
there's a story of the anxiety.
There's a story of the depression.
Ah, okay.
Um, so basically.
I can disappoint a ton of people
because I'm like, yes, that's so great.
You're feeling anxious and you're
feeling depressed and you know
that you can understand that.
And I need to whole, your know, your
whole life story up until this point.
Hmm.
So, uh, and there's
different theories too.
So there's like, you
know, different theories.
I mean, looking at the medical model like.
The medical model would say,
okay, like, these synapses aren't
firing correctly, or this, you
have a chemical imbalance, right?
Mm-hmm.
So there's that medical model, and
then there's a trauma model, and
then there's, you know, um, all,
all, all sorts of different types of
ways we can look at the same problem.
So I could say, you know, there's
people that believe that story work
is the best work, or, you know,
IFS is the way to go, but really.
What works for you, so what works for you?
Yeah.
So yeah, I've noticed in my own therapy
journey with my therapist, uh, I'll
say things or we'll track on a story
and he's the expert in these different
models and tools and things like that.
So he knows what to highlight,
what to pick up on, what to
follow, what to push back on.
Mm-hmm.
To like guide me in my own
self-exploration, self-discovery.
Mm-hmm.
But it's because he's
an expert that he knows.
Yeah, he, he knows like where
it's not even guiding me, it's
just like, uh, he knows where to,
like I had a summary professor.
This just came to my mind.
She said, just follow the emotion.
Mm-hmm.
And so I think that is a tool.
It's not always the only tool
or it's never, not the only
tool, but I think that is.
Where a lot of therapists land, it's
like, okay, where can I find that spot
that seems to tingle a little bit more?
Mm-hmm.
You know, like a good masseuse would.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And like ause my, my shoulder,
my gosh, it's your metal
thing slowly breaking down.
Yeah.
But um, but yeah, just finding that
tender little thing and then treating
it with care and you know, like,
especially if you have a lot going on
or you have a lot of trauma, like a good
therapist knows like, Hey, I can't just
like crank the dial up and going in.
To this thing, like I gotta sit
and understand and build resources
and ground them, and then I can
help them slowly uncover this knot.
Where did it come from?
Why is it so tender?
Why is it so tingly?
So, Hmm.
What is the, the, okay, so like
we're follow, like you follow that
thread, you follow that emotion.
Mm-hmm.
But where does it lead?
Or what is the destination or
the tell us or the end objective.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
For if you want to be healthy.
Mm-hmm.
I want to be healthy.
I'm in therapy talking with my therapist.
What does that mean?
Mm-hmm.
Like for you?
Like how do you, yeah.
How, how do you know whether it's
like you're getting beyond just
feeling better and you're actually
becoming a healthier person.
How do you, how do you think about that?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I think.
There is a sense of feeling better.
Mm-hmm.
And I wanna say that's a good bit of it.
Mm-hmm.
But I also wanna say that the things
that used to feel attracted to you
are no longer attracted to you.
Oh, I like that.
So it's like a shift in Yeah, I like that.
Maturity or health or values,
maybe perspective values even.
Mm-hmm.
I like that, that.
That.
Yeah, I think that there's, like,
I'm, this is maybe a terrible example,
but thinking of like someone can
date someone and have a, you know, a
horrible relationship, they break up.
Um, and if we haven't really worked
through maybe their story and what, 'cause
we tend to date what's familiar, right?
So if they haven't worked through their
relationship with their parents or.
You know, how it was for them
growing up, chances are they could
still date very similar people.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
So then with therapy, it's how can I bring
these things that are implicit, these
things that I don't actually know, you
know, um, what's the word I'm looking for?
Like,
like how can I make these things
known to me that I, you know, these
patterns or behaviors that I don't even.
That I walk around all day just
thinking that they're normal, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And so until we make what's implicit,
explicit meaning like I can know that
I'm attracted to people that are maybe
emotionally unavailable because my
dad was never available to me, right?
And so then we start teasing
that out of like, hey, like if
I know that that's true, then
how can I be more aware of that?
How can I make changes?
How can I know?
Um.
That.
Yeah, sometimes dating people
that are emotionally available
at first will be kind of boring.
It won't be as exciting as dating
someone who's unavailable 'cause it's
not healthy and I'm, I'm not used to,
I'm not used to health in that sense.
So I think that's where therapy again,
brings it implicit, explicit so that we
can choose differently, do differently,
feel better about doing differently.
So it is like, if, if your goal is to feel
better, that's not actually a great goal.
It is a goal and it's an important goal,
but it's not the only goal in that sense.
Mm-hmm.
Shouldn't maybe necessarily
be the, the only goal.
'cause again, like I disappoint a lot
of people in saying Yeah, like you
might still have anxiety in your future.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you might still face
hard things, you might still
have, you know, depression.
But, um, my friend Alyssa Moon
is really wise in saying it's not
about feeling better, it's about
doing, like doing differently,
doing better with your feelings.
You know, the analogy my
therapist used once was.
Uh, you might be eating better
and you might be losing weight,
but you still think you're fat.
Mm.
And I thought that was
such a great mm-hmm.
Analogy.
Daily shift.
Yeah.
Like I could be, and he was talking
about like my fear, like I'm working
on my sense of fear and worry.
And he was like, yeah, you've,
you've like gone through this period.
And I can tell you're like more steady.
Um, but.
As soon as something in your
environment will change, you'll
revert back to like the, your
processing, the way you've always done.
Mm-hmm.
And so even though yes, you are getting
healthier now, you're like eating better
foods, quote unquote, metaphorically.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but you still think you're fat.
And I thought that was, that was
really helpful to be like, man, yeah.
I, that's probably true.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
Anything else that people should know for.
Um, is therapy how you define it?
Well, I think something that comes
to mind, 'cause I know we can talk a
lot about, I think people know a lot
about, maybe they don't know a lot
about it, but I think what you get
told is like, oh, E MDR R is the best.
Or CCBT or DBT or whatever.
And or IFS and mdr.
RE em, did I say that?
EMR did you?
I don't know.
Oh, that's, it was coming to mind.
Uh, yeah.
Like people know the language, but
they don't know actually what it means.
And I, I think that's also totally okay.
But, um, but I think too, I want people
to know is it's not the research or sorry,
the research shows that it's not the
modality that your therapist practices.
It's if you trust 'em.
So ultimately what it comes down to
for me is I want to be a healthy, um.
I'm hesitating from saying the word good
because I think that's also my own stuff.
But I think like I want to
be a good enough therapist.
I want to be a good enough person.
I want to be a trustworthy person.
I wanna be a wise person.
Because to me, that's all it
comes down to, you know, is,
is in helping people change.
Like I'm the tool, I'm the the resource.
And so if I'm a broken tool, if I'm
a broken resource, I don't think
there's a whole lot I can offer people.
So I think that's where I really.
Strive to be a healthy person
to help people think we change,
we change most by somebody.
Just setting an example of
how we want to be, you know,
whatever that could look like.
It could be like an athlete, it
could be like wisdom, it could be
how you treat your kids or whatever,
but like, seeing it in front of you
and embodied in a person, it's like,
oh, that's a new standard for me.
Mm.
Like we, we talk about that
with like people we've.
Met and known, you know, older
people either you know, much older
or just in that next stage for us.
Mm-hmm.
It's like, oh wow, that was
really, that was like, so helpful.
So it was like such a great like mm-hmm.
Benchmark or standard setting for that.
Mm-hmm.
You know, X whatever that looks like.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, anyway, it's been helpful.
Well, I think too, like the
presence of that person.
Yeah.
Like, I think the person
that's like, I think our pain.
It has to be ex not experience our pain.
Ha Our, we experience our pain for
sure, but I think our, our therapist
is someone that can bear witness to
our pain and that is healing of itself.
Mm-hmm.
And so, and I think our
friends are amazing.
Our family can be really amazing and they
can also be the sources of over pain.
But like, I think with
therapists, it's like a neutral
person that is there for you.
When I say neutral, I'm not a
very neutral therapist by the way.
Like I say, that we're supposed
to be this blank slate for people
and I'm not, because I just so
desperately want my clients to
feel that I'm present with them.
It's really hard to feel present.
Yeah.
Your therapist is truly a blank slate.
Yeah.
But um, but I think that with bearing
witness to our pain in the hands of
someone that is wise, kind, knowledgeable.
Like it really is life transfer.
Like it's, it's transforming, um,
in ways that maybe our friends
or family can't give to us.
I think of, um, I had a day with a friend
on Friday who happens to be a therapist,
but she's the most attuned, kind person.
Mm-hmm.
Intelligent understanding.
And it's, it's kind of like that
person that like gets you on a deep
level that like makes conclusions
and makes wise observations.
Like, she's just like, oh my gosh, like,
were you this way as a chi as a child?
Or did you feel this?
And I was like, yes, yes, yes.
So it's like someone that like
automatically just quickly gets it, um,
on a deep level that is really healing.
And so I think that our friends
are wonderful, our families are,
are wonderful, but they don't
often have the skills or the tools
to really transform our pain.
So, um, as an interesting
aside, uh, the thing about.
AI or robots in that regard is that
they don't have that kind of mm-hmm.
Incarnation presence, that embodiment.
Mm-hmm.
So you can ask questions and
you can, you know, get knowledge
transfer and things like that.
And even wisdom perhaps, but you can't
be vulnerable in front of a robot or
in front of ai, like, because there's
nothing, you're not risking anything.
Mm-hmm.
And so, and then you don't also
have that like example or that
kind of like that presence.
Mm-hmm.
And so that, um, what you're describing is
like a high anthropology for like mm-hmm.
Embodied to like people being together
and how, and it's like super powerful.
Mm-hmm.
Really powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think too the, the presence
piece is just really important.
And even, you know, I think code
was such a big shift because we.
You know, moved from in-office to mm-hmm.
Like, I had not done a single
virtual appointment, like I
think probably my whole career.
Mm-hmm.
And then we go to COVID, which
is, you know, only virtual.
Mm-hmm.
And the presence piece was still there.
Excuse me.
But I think that it was,
um, even still, like, I think that, um.
Virtual therapy, there's still a
presence because it's still a person.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And we have to be people.
So yeah.
I had a friend tell me recently,
he was like, you know, we're, we're
talking about big things or, you know,
big changes or whatever in our lives.
And he was like, man, it just sucks that
we can't just like, sit with each other,
like, you know, have like a late night
conversation and just like mull over
these things and process them or whatever.
Because when you're in a.
In a more structured digital
context, it's like, oh, I get an
hour slot, you know, or I get a lunch
or whatever, and then it's gone.
But like sometimes for some
conversations, some topics, it's
like, I need to like sit with this.
We just need to like explore and like
follow this meandering conversation for
three hours in the middle of the night.
You know?
You know?
Mm-hmm.
You don't get that in a lot of
modern, kinda like day to day stuff.
Mm-hmm.
That's hard.
Mm-hmm.
And finding that person is really hard.
Yeah, because I've had friends
that have served as therapists to
me and um, thankfully I've only
had one therapist in my life that
I've clung to with everything.
But, um, yeah, I think it takes, and
so I say this with saying like, I think
there's plenty of wonderful people that
are not therapists that can sit with
you and feel you and understand you.
Mm-hmm.
But it takes a really special person.
And for the most part, a therapist is.
The best person to process and
unpack this with, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Um, like I tell all my clients, I'm
like, I want you to feel so free.
'cause I think something that our, our
friends can do is get tired of hearing
our same stuff over and over again.
Yeah.
And.
Yes, a therapist has a skill, has skill
sets to get you out of that stuck place.
But I want every client to feel
no sense of shame when they come
in and they're like, I'm so sorry.
This is the fifth time
I've talked about this.
I'm like, I don't care.
Like let's beat a dead horse and then
let's review it and let's understand
and see from a different perspective
or, and know, glean what we need to,
and, and hopefully, you know, when you
don't need it anymore, like we'll move
past it, but like, don't feel shame.
And maybe that's it too.
Like part of just.
You know, being in therapy is learning to
let go of the shame a little bit better.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but yeah, I, I think there's so
much I could say about therapy in the
sense of like, you know, even just the
history of therapy and what it is looked
like and where are we going and, you
know, all the different ways to do it.
But I still think even.
I've been doing it for 10 years,
and I feel like just at 10 years I'm
like, I think I know what therapy is.
Mm-hmm.
It's taken 10 years for you
to understand what it's, yeah.
And maybe I'm a slow learner and I'm
a late bloomer, but No, no, I think
that's part of mastery is like, well,
I don't know, but I, I do think that,
like I look back on certain sessions
or things that I've said and I'm like,
man, like if I knew what I knew now,
I would do it completely differently.
So there is like maybe a certain
grief and being like, I wish I had
all this information, you know,
when I was first starting out.
But I mean, I was starting out at 23.
I think.
I think what's interesting about mastery
is like when you've been doing something
for 10 years, you, you know more than
ever about what it is, and at the same
time you feel this like total ignorance
that like you don't know anything.
I think it's just like weird tension that
like, yeah, there is a tension there.
I I, what is that graph that the more you
know, the more you realize you don't know.
What's that graph called?
Uh, the Dunning Kruger effect is the,
yes, that's, I was trying to remember
that last week, but, but it's also like
a, the mid width meme, you know, that one
where it's like, it's a normal bell curve.
Um, standard deviation.
It's got 10%.
It's, and it looks like a super.
Baby beginner person.
And then you got this like person
who's like trying to figure it
all out and they're like nervous.
And then you got this like
Jedi person on the other side.
Mm.
And the beginner person and
the Jedi say the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
And then the person at the top, the normal
curve, I'm like butchering this meme.
But the person at the top,
I've never heard this meme.
Oh man, you should look it up.
The Midwood meme.
I won't.
And it's like, it's so genius.
It's like the simplest things
that like a baby beginner.
Um, understands is the same thing
that like the Jedi master would say
about that topic, but obviously coming
from a totally different mm-hmm.
Like learned master perspective maybe.
That's kind to me.
I, I think my, what I've.
I tend, so I'm a one on the Enneagram,
so I tend to be very, I am, I'm not
gonna say I tend, I'm usually pretty
perfectionistic and require a lot of
myself in Brandon, but no comment.
But I think that, that's funny.
Um, my prayer for myself has been to
like, God, help me remember the good
that I'm doing, because I think I can
look back on a lot of conversations
and be like, I butcher that.
Like I don't, but then again, like.
I had, I remember a supervisor telling
me, he was like, I have had conversations
and times with clients where I thought
it was the best session I've ever had.
Mm-hmm.
And then the next time they saw me, they
were like, that was not a great session.
Mm-hmm.
And then he said the opposite, that
sometimes he'll have like the wor
what he feels like the worst session.
And then the next week the client
was like, man, that was so profound.
Thank you so much.
So I can see that I think it is like,
I can never protect how it's gonna go,
which is part of why I love therapy is I
never know what's gonna happen in a day.
And I never know.
Like, I have a guess of what
people are coming in with,
but I, I never really know.
But I think that, yeah, my prayer
has been like, God, like would
you help me remember the good?
Um, and I am, I am just like very
witness to pain and that's really all,
I mean, that's a holy and good work.
So that's my, my joy
and my goal on it all.
I think it's part of like aging
and wisdom too, is just like
letting go of the control of like.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna control the
outcome of this, like how good
this therapy session is gonna be.
Yeah.
And just like, I don't know,
God, like take this, take
this time with this person.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, whatever happens, happens.
Yeah.
So, but I do know a lot, and
that's where I, I have to remember
too, like, yeah, I've got 10
years, I'm technically an expert.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I am an expert.
Mm-hmm.
Um, my 10,000 hours, but.
But yeah, therapy is is such a good
and beautiful thing and I wish that
everyone felt free and comfortable
in doing it and finding a person
that just fits them really well, so.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Amen.
Okay, last question.
What was the good life for you this week?
Well, you said you had a good one.
Yeah.
Uh, it might be the same as yours, but.
We went to the garden store yesterday.
Oh, that's a good one.
It's called Archie's Archie's Garden Land.
And we've, I, I need to get mulch
'cause we were planting a tree.
Shout out John and Brenda,
the retreat program.
Fort Worth.
Thank you, John and Brenda.
Um, we got some new trees to
plant and so I had to go get a bag
of mulch to plant the last one.
And so we went up to Archie's.
And on the way you had the great idea of
like, we should just stop by La la land.
Mm-hmm.
The coffee shop, because we hadn't
been there yet and it looked so nice.
Mm-hmm.
And so we stopped by la la
land and it lives up to the
hype and it was really great.
It was actually really great.
Um, and then we went to Archie's and we
just sat in this little turf area where
there's like a little playhouse for
Camille, and she, inside that playhouse,
there's a basket of plastic, uh, food.
Like toys of food.
Yeah, like it's like healthy
fruits and veggies go fry.
Yeah.
It like oranges and corn and carrots
and these little plastic things.
And so she acts like a shopkeeper,
like distributing food to us, and we
just sit in these Adirondack chairs.
She says, what do you want?
What do you want?
Corn?
Okay.
Or No, we wanted chicken.
She was like.
Tomato.
Okay.
Orange.
Okay.
Pumpkin.
And then you brought a blanket for Jones.
Mm-hmm.
And laid him down and we just sat in
some Adirondack chairs with some great
coffee and it was beautiful weather.
Yeah, it's perfect.
And it's a fenced in probably
like, I don't know, two acre?
Yeah.
Lot.
Two, two or three acre lot with a
building and just all these like, uh,
flowers and trees and plants everywhere.
And it's like there's nobody
there 'cause it's November.
And so we just went and like, it
was so beautiful, so, and relaxing.
And it was a Saturday afternoon
and it was like on the one hand,
productive, like I had to go get mulch.
Mm-hmm.
But also we were just like sitting there
and it was slow and there was nowhere
else to be and there was nothing to,
um, like Camille didn't have to be or do
anything other than what she was doing.
She was fenced in with barbed
wire barb and this little, yeah.
And this little place.
And it was saved parent.
To your park or whatever.
Yeah, man.
Like get a fence around that thing.
Fencer, man.
Yeah.
Just let him run up.
Uh, and it was just such
a lovely little time.
Yeah.
And I remember saying like, this is all I
want, like in life probably for the rest
of my life, is like, I just want this
kind of like presence and slowness and.
And peace.
And yes, it's external peace.
And I know there's a, you know,
there's a spiritual piece, which
is only internal, not necessarily
external, and yada, the Bible says.
The Bible says, well, the
Bible even said that today.
Well, the Bible says in Galatians
five, love, joy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, Jonas
faithfulness, self-control.
So peace and calm.
And slow and not being in a
hurry and not feeling stressed.
Mm-hmm.
It was so nice.
So that's my good luck.
Yeah, that's really good.
I don't remember what else we did
this weekend because it was just
wiped from my brain by not sleeping.
Um,
oh, what did we do yesterday?
If I was to tell a
newborn parent anything?
You will forget everything.
You'll forget how terrible this slept.
What did we do yesterday?
We went to Archie's and then,
uh, no, I slept till 10.
Yeah, I know.
But then we went to Archie's and
then we came back, planted a tree.
Oh, Camille rode that
little bike a little bit.
Yeah, and then we planted the,
I don't know, it doesn't matter.
I can't remember.
Wait, I feel like, oh, we watched, uh,
the F1 show last night, which is great.
Oh, we did start the F1 show, which
I think everyone watched last year.
I think that that was a, it's
on like season seven and I've,
and I'm just getting into it.
Yeah.
Anyway.
No, I think that'd be my good life too.
Yeah.
Archie's.
Yeah.
I think that like.
It, it's easy for me to be like,
oh, like should we invite someone?
Should we bring, you know, what
else should we do while we're out?
And mm-hmm.
I think really, like, I'm just learning
to follow my nervous system and sometimes
the nervous system is like, you didn't
sleep this past weekend, so like,
you shouldn't go and do a thousand
things or invite a thousand people.
But, um, but that, yeah, we can just go
to Archie's and sit there and, you know.
Be our little family and mm-hmm.
That's good.
I'm learning to mosey, you
know, you're just moseying.
Where do you mosey Brandon?
Like at Archie's we were moseying.
There's nowhere else to be, we
didn't have like, but I mean,
outside of that, where do you mosey?
Uh, I want a mosey everywhere.
Huh?
It's too hot to mosey
in Texas, by the way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But even yesterday when we were
planting the tree and there was, you
know, I was, I was just dilly dalian.
She was farting around.
Camille was just walking up and down
the sidewalk and I'm just moseying.
There's nowhere to be.
No, no.
You know, she didn't have any,
there's no time limit on anything.
Obviously she's gotta go to
bed at some point, but mm-hmm.
It was just, just moseying.
Yeah.
I want, I want more mosey.
More mosey.
I'm gonna make a t-shirt.
More mosey.
More mosey, more whimsy.
More whimsy.
That's, oh, we did start
setting up for Christmas today.
That was a good one.
Oh yeah.
You made the Christmas
tree looks really nice.
Yeah.
It will have no breakable
ornaments on it because Yep.
Toddler.
But anyways.
Anyway.
Well thanks for sharing.
That was probably incredibly
boring for everyone.
Yeah.
But here we are.
Okay.
See you next week.
See ya.