Crafting a Story with Jesse VandenBergh

Show Notes

This week, we’re joined by Jesse VandenBergh, Story Producer at Sorrentino Media to talk about how a video goes from an idea to a finished product. Jesse discusses the valuable lessons he learned from working in comedy and news and how he implements them into telling compelling client stories.

What is The Production Geeks?

Welcome to the rack room. The Production Geeks is a deep-dive into the obsessive engineering, high-stakes problem solving, and "nerd-level" passion that fuels Sorrentino Media. Join founder Mike Sorrentino and Dave Shaw (VP, Content and Creative Engineering) as they pull back the curtain on the complex infrastructure behind the world’s most ambitious broadcasts.

From live-streaming test flights for aerospace innovators to architecting massive multi-stream control centers and building turnkey studios for global enterprise leaders, Mike and Dave explore the "how" and "why" behind the tech.

This isn’t just a talk show; it’s a technical post-mortem. We dive into the spec sheets, the signal flows, and the "engineer the hell out of it" philosophy that makes the impossible look easy. If you love the gear as much as the result, and believe that the best production is built on a foundation of relentless technical curiosity, you’ve found your people. Engineered in Midtown Manhattan at 37th & Madison.

SorrentinoMedia.com and MadisonAveLive.com

Hello, and welcome to Media Offline. I'm Michael Sorrentino, the founder of Sorrentino Media. In each episode of Media Offline, I speak with media professionals at all stages of their careers about their work and their lives. Over the course of my career, starting in broadcast and now today as a business owner, one of the most important things that I've learned is the value of relationships within the industry and the great stories behind the people who make the media. Today we're speaking with Jesse Vandenberg. Jesse is a story producer here at Sorrentino Media. He's been with us since the early days and started as a freelancer. Jesse and I go pretty far back and have been through the trenches quite a few times together, and I'm happy to have him join us today. So Jesse, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for having I am so glad to have this conversation today, because there's a lot of things that you do, and not only here but for our clients, that I don't think people know about. I think when people think about video production, they think about filming and maybe editing, but there's a lot of pre production that goes into these things. I'd like to start with kind of an overview of what is your job? What do you, as they say in office space, what exactly do you do here? So, yeah, if I were in front of what is it the bobs? Yeah, if I had to stop my case to the Bobs, it would be My title is story producer, which is sort of like a catch all for writer, producer, and editor. The pre production side of things that you were mentioning. That's more of like the writing side, which over my career I've found that, like I've had a lot of like editing gigs, and I find that being a good editor helps the writing side of things, right, things helps the editing side of things. It's all sort of related. So they like they say that, like, I think it's in reference to like movies, how they're written three times. They're written in the scripting process, during production, and then in the edit room. So I'm definitely seeing sort of that over the whole process of like pre production and post production, you just sort of see how the project changes. What was the first time you realize that this is the career path that you wanted to go on. I always loved movies. My parents like would show my sister and I like old movies, like old Marx Brothers movies, King Kong, just like a lot of like the old classics. So I had like a diet of like that and like new crazy stuff I sort of liked. I just sort of consumed movies. Favorite old movie, go oh, favorite old movie. I love the original Godzilla. Nice, it's really great. Nice. Yeah. So my dad is a video editor and there would be times that he would take me into work and I would see what he would do, and that was sort of like a peek behind the curtain of like, oh, I love movies and like this seems like and what kind of things did you? May add ed it. So he worked for a company called National Video Broadcasting. I think they were just called National. He would do like a lot of like music videos, a lot of like promos, some early MTV stuff like music videos. Yeah. I know he's worked with like John Cougar mellon Camp and ice Cube amazing. So yeah, being like in an edit room as a kid was just like thrilling. And TV promos are tough, you know, it's like you have to con it's you know, it's like today, I guess we would call it a social cut, which is essentially taking a long piece and cutting it down to like five to fifteen seconds for those who don't know. But TV promos is like is really hard because you have to take the most important information, not give away the whole story, but also sell it. It's it's getting people that's some of the most skilled editors, people that can cut promos. So continue. So you saw your dad do that, and you get to go into the edit room, which is like really fun. As a kid, it's so fun. And this was also like I think the industry has changed, but like in the early nineties when I was like going into work with my dad, that edit suites were huge rooms. They had like couches and like candy bowls. They would order sushi and they'd have a bridge full of beer and liquor and stuff. At some of these post houses. Yeah, it's always so fun. Yeah, I think they would have like on Friday, they would have like the beer cart would go around, and I think, like, I think I just missed that era. It's amazing. I was just listening to a podcast with the professor Jeff Jarvis. He was talking about his time in magazine because he actually just wrote a book about the magazine era, the height of it and saying how they would do just that, they'd come around with the liquor cart, you know, and like you'd also have a stipend to fill your office bar and stuff. It's just like so foreign. Yeah, time to where it is now, you know. So nice, is it? I guess? I mean it is, but it's just crazy to think of, like and of course horrible things happened in the office. Yeah, there's a trade off, as you know, the things get less cushy. I think more people are able to you know, live free without being bothered. But in your in your era, in your experience, it was great because there was a cannibal you know. Oh yeah, I wasn't privy to any of the darker side of the industry, was yeah, so okay, so continue. So so you're you're getting a sense of this environment in this industry and you seem to like it. Yeah. And so the big shift for me was my my dad started his own company, Complete Montage LLC. And so he operated out of our den, so he was editing from home. So I like, the couch in my den was like the producer's couch, and I would make like my own videos with my friends, and this is like pre YouTube, so I I sort of had a leg up on the rest of my friends. Or I'm like, I can make you know, home videos with my friends just like being goofy and like have industry quality post production done on it. Yeah. So that's sort of where I learned to both edit and produce because I'd just be sitting on the couch and I don't think I would say it this way, but just essentially just like oh yeah, like trim free. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. So yeah, that's it sounds very an organic way to just kind of say like this is this is what I want to do. Yeah. And also seeing your father go off on his own is quite an experience I can imagine. I mean, there's definitely ups and downs with that I can attest from my own personal experience, but you know, wow, what an amazing thing to see To be have a front most seat on not only seeing your dad pretty regularly and being able to have that connection, also being able to collaborate with him on fun you know, projects with your friends, and being able to watch him grow something that's that's amazing. Yeah, it was like so it sounds like you have a pretty good relationship there with your dad and that he probably is still someone that inspires you. Absolutely, yeah, I mean he uh. He like was totally game for the things that I would do with my friends and like would come help us shoot things, and it was very supportive in my awesome beginnings still today. And so when did you decide? Was it in early in high school or late in high school? Like yeah, I'm gonna do this, you know, and then you go to college and and tell me about that. Yeah. So I I went to college. I went to Rutgers Mason Grows School of the Arts, which is like their art school within the larger university, which was cool because it was like a smaller group of weirdos and like a large we love weirdos around here. Oh yeah, we're made up of weirdos and that's a I'm weirdo but also from Red Curses, our own Julijos, who who's in a that's true? Yeah, yeah, Rutgers turns out some good ones. Yeah. But yeah, so I studied. I wanted to study film, but they didn't have a film department, so but they had like a visual arts department that I was a part of. So I my major was visual arts with a video concentration, and a lot of it was like video installations like Now'm jum Pike and like a lot of like video artists weird study. In college, I just wanted to do comedy, so I would basically just produce sketch comedy, like video sketch comedy, and that's what I would show in my classes. But in like a very abstract art world. I feel like I was the black sheep in doing very mainstream things. But I definitely learned a lot from from like the visual arts scene. Did you find that when you were the one coming in with silly stuff and everyone was coming in with probably heavy stuff, that your work was not taken as seriously? Yeah? My my thesis was actually arguing sketch comedy is art, or why it's just as valuable as something you would find in a gallery. So what was an interesting project that you did? Like, maybe what was your piece to resistance? In college? A friend of mine and I made like a post apocalyptic western, just like on like the like along like the Raritan River in New Brunswick. So it's like very like modern looking, very low budget post apocology, that's what you gotta do. Yeah, But like there was like a cool like graffiti aesthetic there, so like there was some something to it that looked cool. Cool, all right, So so you continue on this path. You're the you're sort of the the silly guy, you're the comedian guy in a group of artists. How was that also as a community, how did that did it help you in your comedy work that you were you supported by the other, you know, very artistic folks in that world, in the comedy world, in this in school, in school, Yeah, because I think that the people that would see that I could apply the more like artistic video skills to something very mainstream. I think the people that were interested in that, I think noticed it. So like my roommate was a good example of somebody who was in the visual arts department, not necessarily like an abstract art kind of guy, but we clicked pretty quickly and started making stuff together. So after college, you things get real. So so what's the first job and what's that what's that career to look like? I was hired to be a clip desk editor at CNBC and that was like my first like real like real job in the industry. So explain what a clip desk, you know, and what a clip desk editor does for those who haven't worked in the news industry. So, a clip desk editor basically puts together the video packages that you see a news story. So if they're you know, they're saying President Biden attended this meeting today, they would roll the clip of him like getting off of the helicopter and shaking hands, and that's basically what I would put together. So that was we would deal with like soots and vows, so like uh stot meaning sound on tape, vow meaning video only yep, where sometimes vo would mean voiceover, and other parts of the industry. In the news world it was SATs bows vote, SATs yeah, that SATs yeah. So it's basically like if the newscasters talking over the clip and you're not hearing anything versus you know, an important clip from something that the president or a CEO said, you know, that was like that was my first job was being the PA to fetch the footage for that for the editors. So you know, I have my own biases, But tell me, you know, what does that do? You know? That sets you up? In my opinion, for becoming a really good editor. So tell me what are the some of the skills that kind of come from that. The the editing itself was pretty basic. I think the main skill is operating under intense deadlines because those requests will sometimes come in like two minutes before air, which is why the editing needs to be basic, because you're just sort of looking through archive clips being like that, when that when that one show to the producer to make sure there's no like black frames or anything, and then just cool, send it it to air, and then that's what goes on. As you said, that's what basically goes on in the window next to the anchor as they're talking about a subject or just something visual, so that it's not just what we would call a talking head in news, which can be really boring. So that that's a really cool place to to work. I mean, at the time, I know, it's like you're like just in a machine and you're just like what am I doing? But so okay, So then your career is near now in the industry, and what are the next steps? So while I was at CNBC, I was very involved in the like the New York Improv and Sketch World, So I would do that at at night and sometimes at CNBC. I was on the night shift, so there would be times where I would wake up, do a comedy show and then go to work, which was just weird and discombobulating, and how often are you are you doing comedy shows at this time? At this point, I was going into the city pretty much every night to do that. I would do I would take improv classes. I sort of like treated that like my grad school from and this is that the People's Improv Theater right a little bit, I did some stuff at the Pit and then I did mostly stuff at the Upright Citizen's Brigade. Okay, so these are two really well known improv theaters, but also like there's a huge educational component to training people and breaking into that world, but also with the corporate aspect of workshops and all of that. So for those who don't know obviously the Upright Citizens Brigade, I mean, what an amazing place to be in the in the Pit, the People's Improv Theater right not too far from where we are, you know, that have some of the most the comedic legends you know that are training it. That's such a cool experience. Yeah, it was cool. Like you would walk in and like sometimes would be like, oh, like there's Amy Pohler, like just talking to the person at the front desk. She was one of the founders of the theater. That's amazing. Wow, what a busy schedule. So you're doing you're doing sketch comedy, improv and then going on do hard news coverage. Yeah, and a late shift after that and how long is that going on for? I was at CNBC for two years, so I left there to work on a s called The Chris Gethard Show. Chris Gatherord was like like a name in the improv world. I got involved in his public access show. It was a show that he did at the Uppright Citizen's Brigade Theater. I just missed it when I started doing comedy there. He had just ended the show, but then he revived it on public Access, so I got involved in that. I was just going as an audience member, met the people there, became became like friendly with some of them, and j D the show runner and director, was just like give us an email, will like put me on the list because I would like help them set up because I'd be like there's like a waiting area for the audience, and then they would set up the studio while people were waiting, and it was like very like low security, low stakes. So I was just like, why don't I just like wander back and like help them set up lights and stuff. So they put my name on the email list and I started basically volunteering to do this stuff at some point. Yeah, so I this was all pro bono for about out four years, that is, I mean that is Look, obviously there's something to be said about your drive and dedication, but there's also something to be said about that show and you know the creative inspiration that it must have given you to keep doing that for four years. Oh totally yeah for no money, you know, yeah, it was, I mean it was once a week. Then they were picked up by a cable network, which is what led me to leave CNBC is to go work for that. So it became like an actual paid which is opportunity. It was like that is like the classic industry story. Yeah, you just you work on something that you love out of passion and then it turns into like a money will follow. It's awesome And for those who don't know Chris Gethart. I mean, I don't know is all of his work, but he's incredibly creative, really smart and obviously very funny. You know. That's such a and you know, he reminds me of so a lot of the folks that worked on The Daily Show who just you know, they can be very insightful and they have like he's Chris Gethart has like a really it seems like he has a high emotional intelligence too, you know, he seems to connect with people really well. Yeah, he's very open about his mental health issues and I think he's inspired a lot of people to seek help. But at the same time, he's a comedian and a brilliant improviser. So he's good at the very like honest and heartfelt side of things, but very quick on his feet and to be very funny and comment on, you know, an insane situation pretty astutely, right, and he's like just a classic Jersey guy oh yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. So that's an amazing step to take to go into this world of now you're on a show, which for those who don't know, working on a show like that is really exciting but so scary because shows get canceled all the time, so you're sort of like, yeah, this is great, but it could end at any time. Yeah. I remember working in syndication and one of my bosses on one of those shows, Uh, there was nothing hanging up on the walls, and you know, I was like, what are you doing? Like you have this whole office, like, don't get too comfortable. Yeah exactly, And he was like, well, because I could get canceled, I don't want to have to put it all in the box one day. So that's wild. So so what is that like? So tell me about the work that you were doing then when you were on Chris Gathered. So I was my title was just office PA, but I was doing everything from like making props to picking up pro wrestlers to be on the show. It was a lot of like it was all hands on deck, and it was it was this thing that was we were all sort of doing it as a labor of love for so long and then all of a sudden it became like a real job. So there was some getting used to of like what are our responsibilities because we're all sort of used to wearing a million different hats that it became more official. I don't think I was too hung up on it not getting renewed, which I guess speaks to the level of foresight that I had back then. I think I was just like, I'm working on a real TV show. That's the way you have to go into it. Yeah. I don't want to say bury your head in the sand, but sometimes I say even with like a business and like I just kind of almost like close close my eyes and just like leap and live in the presence. Yeah. And you know, but for me, what it reminds me of this this period in your career of doing a little bit of everything of a college you know, where you're doing it because you love it, you want to learn it. You obviously have some aspect of it. But you know, again you're in this world of now you're not more surrounded by comedy folks in this world, but you're also like you're mixing that comedy and very like deeply creative and serious not super serious, because again Chris Kether is a funny show. Yeah, but you always had this kind of hand in both you know, sides of silly but but insightful, you know, or or thoughtful and really like deep. Yeah, it's so you're you're an office pa, and then at some point that show is no more, right, Yeah, it ran for three seasons actually, and their office was just a few floors down from us, just completely coincidentally. Yeah, yeah, we we actually we did a pilot for Comedy Central which did not get picked up, but that was filmed in the studio across the street, and our offices were here. And then for season one it was on a network called Fusion, and our offices were they were near like the un I think you may have done some work out of those studios too. These are all studios. A lot of these studios are run by a company called an EP, which is you know, for those who don't know, it's it's a it's a major global company that runs a lot of studios for places like ESPN, The Daily Show obviously Chris Gether. Television networks will hire them to kind of build and run the studios this way that it's not on the network to actually deal with the facilities. And an EPs is a partner, friend, client, and also a vendor, so we work with them really closely. And so that's what Jesse's talking about now. Yeah, that like what a fun experience working on that on that show, and then we start slowly start kind of coming in that I'm assuming is when we start to meet, right. Yeah, so I so after the Chris Gathered show I became a barista. I was just like, I'm gonna have that as like a you know, a source of income and then use the flexibility to just get as much freelance work under my belt as possible. One to ten, how are were you or are you as a barista? I'll give myself a gentleman's six. Okay, So can you do shapes on the phone or no? I can do hearts? Okay, that's the only shape. I mean, I always that's kind of like hard, right or is it easy? I'd say a heart is probably the easiest shape to do. It's basically you just sort of pour the espresso till the milk blobs up and then cut it in half. Right right, Okay? But yeah, I mean there were plenty of people that could do like the the leaf for whatever, and I just never knew how to. So you do the bearist. The thing I love that some of some of my good friends have spent a lot of time as a barista, and it's it's actually it's I mean, not to speak for you, it sounds like it was a kind of a good thing to be a good place to be for a little while. It was. I Actually, it's so funny because in that stretch, I was just like, I'll be a barista and I'll take whatever like industry jobs I can get. And I feel like that was such a great education, and I'm finding ways to implement things that I learned in that stretch now, things that I never really saw as skills at the time. So are you still exercising your your comedy, You're writing in your video chops while you're while this is happening. Yeah, I mean I got my first like real like writing job while I was a barista. I wrote a series for Thrillist called Snack Talk, and it was basically like a late night talk show where the host would interview celebrities about like weird snacking habits that they have. So you're doing this on the side, yes, So that was that was one where I I was like, giving, it's a video series. Yes, Yeah, we like built like a set that was like meant to look like a bodega. That was one that I like, I took a month off from the barista job, which, as you can, yes, and my friend was the manager and that like that did help me out a lot. Okay, so that's really cool. So what happened with that series? I don't think many of you were looking for sponsors or something. Yeah, it was like a I think we only did eight episodes and that was it. Digital series are really hard. Yeah. When I first started, I was trying to do I was pitching a digital series and it was called American Ventors, and it was it was basically like going into these shops or you know, it's just not the not the guy that invented the ring camera and made a billion dollars, but you know the guy who made like a little you know, foam camera holder out of you know, out of his workshop and Jersey or something and sold a couple of thousand on you know, Etsy or something like that. And there's so much beauty in that, you know. Anyway, it's a long story short. I tried to pitch this and you know, it's it's almost it just as hard as trying to launch a network primetime series, because what were you doing for that show? I was writing it, shooting it everything. Wow. Yeah, we had done the whole thing. We never we never got off the ground with it though, because you know, these things got to make money, you know, right, and there's so much stuff out there. It's like, how do you get something like that? Notice? Yeah, and then they got to put the marketing shops behind it to keep it going. It's it's a crazy, crazy world, you know. Well that's a really fun experience also writing it, and then what's next. I worked on Billy on the Street, which is like the comedian Billy Eichner. It basically had a show where he would run up to people does Yeah, he does it from time to time, like on like little web episodes, but he'll run up to people on the street. He's very off putting and funny, and we'll like scream at people on the street asking them to do a challenge or or see if they know bits of trivia? So what are you doing on that? So I was a a release pa. That's how I started. That's actually kind of crazy, you know. One of the things that I always think about when iver seen it on like TikTok or something, So explain what the releases, you know. So my job was these are all real people that he's interacting with. None of them are plants literally on the street. He's i mean every now and then they'd be like, you know, like oh it's Paul Rudd and like that is not a coincidence. But my job is actually if like you know, a producer would say on Walkie like that was a really good one. Billy wants that's like I must have, So it would be my job to be like, hey, thank you so much for like doing this, would you mind signing a release form? It sort of goes against my whole nature of people pleasing and not wanting to bother people. But it was definitely a crash course in dealing with people on a professional level who are not wanting to cooperate. Yeah, and great skill and also I mean, look that for those who haven't seen Billy on the street, if you haven't, you know you're missing out. It's like it's hilarious and it's great, he's amazing and and really get some some great responses from people, so you know, it's it's there's nothing there that's actually there's no ill intent, no never, it's all it's all good. It's all positive stuff. So at least you could know when you're doing that kind of thing. You know, it's to make people laugh and it's to Yeah, and actually when as all comedy does, like has a good message underneath it or or is trying to you know, you know, obviously brightened people's day, but also you know, it's sometimes it's a little deeper with him, and a lot of his stuff is like, yes, he's being aggressive and accosting people, but you watch the show and he is the one who looks like the idiot. He's very he's very honed in on like I am the one, like I am the problem. The people that he yells at react like normal people. So you know, you watch the show and you're never like that person on the street is an idiot. It's always like Billy takes that responsibility. So part of the thing that I would say to the people to try to get them to sign release forms was like, you are going to look fine. It's Billy who nice? Who is going to be looking stupid? Yeah, And I'm sure you have a lot of tales of like some folks that were kind of interesting that you probably aren't even allowed to say on this, but wow, what another like really cool step in your journey so so how does that what happens with that, and where do you go next. I actually became really good friends with the showrunner, and he was one of the first people to recognize that I'm a writer, and so he hired me on like my first handful of writing opportunities, and then also just like entrusted me on certain jobs to do more producing. And so I started, you know, on the edit side of things, and then as I'm doing this stuff, I'm learning, like the producing side of things, I'm learning how to write, how to deal with people. So all of those things were, you know, lessons that I I'm only realizing now. I'm like, oh, I'm actually implementing things from from that time on the barista days. Absolutely. Yeah, there's so much stuff that we take from those from those jobs. And so eventually then you come in to interview for that we have a project that we need somebody for. I would think it was Permalence. I don't even remember. I don't think it was staff. But I remember meeting you and seeing your resume and we just we had a good conversation that first time. Yeah, and then something popped up. Things just didn't work out. I think you got something. Oh, you were in between, like you were on hold for another project, right, Yeah, I was producing a show, sure if you could take it. Yeah, yeah, I was producing a show that had we're in talks to get another sponsor, and if the sponsorship went through, they'd be able to keep me. If it didn't go through, I'd be done in two weeks. So in that time I kind of scrambled to look for other opportunities. And that's when I met you. I think I just cold reached out to you. I think so, and we had a one phone conversation and then I met you in person, and that was like one of the most laid back and not I don't mean that in a bad way. I just like felt so comfortable in the job interview and it just seemed like such a great place to work. And that was we were small then too, it was just like a few of us. Yeah. And then I remember the sponsorship on the project I was working on went through, and I think you were talking about a start date and I was like, I have to tell this guy no, and I felt so bad. I felt like I was burning a bridge. So when more opportunities presented themselves in the future, I was like, okay, great, like I'd love to work with Sarantino Media. And it's funny because then you know, we stayed in touch. There was we needed some help freelancing. I think you did some work on the side here and there, and then you were freelancing with us for a while for a couple of years, really right on and off. Yeah, I think I started. I met you in twenty nineteen, started freelancing in twenty twenty in the height of COVID. What we were doing a lot of was these virtual events obviously because everything was shut down, and you were helping a lot with those edit those quick turnaround webinars and things like that, right, and then it just organically just kind of came into you coming on full time those things. And so now now now here we are getting back to the very beginning, the first question of what you do here, you know, tell us about tell me about the the process. When when we have a project, you know, we're working on something now that you had just sent out some some character in you know, uh, what do we call that for development? We're in the phase on a project where a lot of times in the early phase of of coming up with a concept we have a blank campus and we just don't know. There's too many options, there's too many places to go. So tell us about about this particular thing that you just did on this particular project for characters. Yeah, we actually have a meeting a little bit later today about it. But it's it's basically a pitch deck. We don't really know exactly. We have a lot of information and we're not sure exactly what aspects the client wants to zero in on. So you know, this is more of like a part of the job of like the story producers to focus on like story driven content. You know, it could be like a very technical company, but it's really the human story that that really sells the thing. So while we're you know, waiting on what you know, technical aspects, we need to focus on what's important on that end. I've been working on putting together a deck for who these characters will be for this particular project. And this is like, you know, not necessarily people that are even going to talk on camera. They are just people that we may be representing in just video or still images that we're taking, but we need we have in mind. We're always thinking about who is the person I mean, likely there will be you know, so they will be talking on camera. But it's I think really interesting for those who haven't produced a video or you know, haven't worked with us before to what you were just saying before. No matter how technical it is or what it is that you're trying to accomplish for us, it's usually rooted in a good story and authenticity, and so there's a lot of different ways of approaching it. This one that you are doing now, which is really planning, planning almost every detail of what is the video, what is Eventually you'll come up with a shot list and you're coming up with storyboards for some of these videos. So that's one way tell us about some of the other ways that are a little bit more off the cuff, which I'll call to imagine awards where there's sort of a plan but sometimes you know, you go in and go, I know, there's an idea, but we're gonna do something completely different. Tell me about that process. So that's something I you know, again, like a lot of the skills I've picked up over the years and just what I talked about earlier coming to play with this, but I've also learned a lot from you know, our creative director Wade Shields, who did the Imagine Awards before I did, and which, for those who don't know, Imagine Awards in New York City is a nonprofit awards show and we produce all of the video content for them. So we're interviewing all of the finalists and putting together nice little packaged videos that will show at the award show to sort of tee up who's going to be the finalists for the awards. Yeah. I like to view them as sort of like the nonprofit like Oscar's clips. Yeah, exactly, So it's just like, uh, you know, what does this nonprofit do, who does it affect? Who are the people behind it? And h And also Liz Weaver O'Keefe, our executive producer, has really helped me in terms of like how to interview somebody and get the response that you need news chops. You know, yeah, she just could. She's really good at just having a system, yeah and being like this is how you gotta work. I've always learned so much from Elizabeth. So just like incorporating all of those like components, I basically we have a script for each finalist who's nominated for an Imagine awards that everyone has a script that they'll read through on a teleprompter, and there's a lot of really great, you know, information about the nonprofit that they work for. But then I like to come in at the end and say, like, let's just have a little one on one conversation, like pretend the cameras aren't here, You're just talking to me. And then I just depending on the category that they're nominated in, I have a series of questions that I asked them trying to get you know, certain emotional responses. And then there's a lot of like you know, using the improv skills, like they'll say something that I'm just like, well that makes me think of this, like can you talk a little bit about this? And a lot of times we get the people we interview to cry, which I love because it makes for a great video, as cruel as that might sound. And I will never forget an executive producer on a talk show that Liz and I worked on, and one time I went out on a field shoot and she said to me, if you don't get tears, don't come back to work. WHOA But you know, for us, you know you know that I think it's a really important thing to understand where you know, we are not look, we are always looking out for the best interest of that person. Yeah, and when you, for example, get them to cry, you're getting them raw and you're getting them to tell you why what they're doing, which, again remember these are nonprofits are so important and if it's this scripted, boilerplate thing, you're not going to connect with people. And most people who work in nonprofits do it because they care about it. So my goal is to just get them to talk about something that they're passionate about, and when you do that, you get an emotional response from them. So, you know, I think one thing or you specifically that I think you share that you have this in common with a lot of the folks on our team or that we've worked with as freelancers. That you know many people who are a producer who has come through the ranks through this system, this industrial system of you're a PA, you're an associate producer, you're a producer, you're on a talk show. This is the machine, this is the formula. Go out, get them to do this interview, have the producer who tells you to make them the cry, and all this stuff. You know, when you come through that system, you lack the emotional connection with the individual a lot of times because you just see them as a product. So when I think of you and the things that you did in your journey, for example, working on Gethered for four years for no money because you are passionate about that and really building the foundation of your career in in interest and love for the for the work, I think that allows you the ability to get people to connect with you, you know, and because you're authentic and real, you know, and and not everyone has that, And I think of imagine awards, you know. So, so we're talking about the different types of videos. There's obviously there's the types that we're superplanned to every shot, scripted, detailed, all of that. Then there's this one that is, yeah, we have a plan, but we're going to throw it out the window. And then there's also the other type where there's almost no plan. Yeah, there's like, we know we're going to shoot on Thursday, what are we going to get? We don't know? Tell me about that and how do you prepare for that, if at all? And what do you do with it? Yeah, those are times where you want to have a plan, but sometimes you just can't. And then you're going into it, you're just like, I feel like I should be more prepared, but there really isn't anything you can do because you don't know enough. So I think that's that's where you go into the situation and you're just relying on active listening. You get a vibe for who the company is, who the subjects are, and you just sort of go from there and have an organic conversation with them. And sometimes the message or the themes or the goals will come up in conversation, and sometimes it works out really well. Sometimes it doesn't, but those are you know, you always you always have something to piece together in the edit. But it's I think those are learning experiences for sure. And when you finish shooting for a day and you've got a bunch of interviews that were pretty ad libbed, again going back to your time and improv of just kind of working on your toes. And by the way, those interviews, you know, when they're with somebody you may not have been had the opportunity to what we call pre interview or connect with in advance. Sometimes you have to one them up on the spot. Yeah, and it's really you know, as cliche as it is, it is a dance, yeah right. I mean I think of AARP. We did this video where you were doing this interview remotely right with just like a such a wonderful, warm gentleman who actually you actually had the opportunity to pre interview him on that one. But yes, you know, sometimes you just you don't know where it's going to go, and uh, you know that one worked out well. But then I've also seen somewhere it's like, you know, maybe somebody's like not into it that day then in a bad mood, so you have to sort of adjust on the fly, you know, I like to a shore clients or clients or people that were interviewing. Sometimes people will come in they're like, I didn't I don't I don't have like a notes thing, like I don't know what I'm gonna say, thinking that they're unprepared. So my response to that is always I love to hear that, yeah, because I have all your notes on my end, so I know what you need to say. But we're just going to have a conversation. Let me worry about us hitting all those bullet points, and you just respond in a natural, organic way. Yeah, that's so, and then you take those and you transcribe them and then you sort of like whittle it down. Is how what your process is? Uh? Yeah, well we'll make transcripts of the interview. From that, I'll put together a script and then you know that gets fine tuned and eventually goes to edit. Yeah, it's h during like certain interviews, even just like when I'm having the conversation, in the back of my mind, I'm like, that was a great that was a great sound bite. We're going to use that. Is there any projects that you've worked on that sort of stand out or sort of near and dear to your heart? The Imagine Awards is always really great. It's creatively wonderful to work on. And it's also just like it's nonprofits, so you know, you're like great projects. Yeah, you're supporting like a good cause. I really liked the dev duel. Oh my gosh, we didn't even talk about that one. So Essie and I went up to Ottawa to the Shopify headquarters where they had an amazing studio and tell us about you know what was that And you know, here is a great example of you know, you were the producer and the editor on the back end, which means that you know, like what we would call the post production end really. So we were working with a partner agency, Civic Entertainment, and Civic was handling all the creative, the leadership, and a lot of the pre production. We were really just there to handle the post end. But they were smart, They're an amazing partner, and they were like, hey, it'd be great to have your producer on the ground and it was right tell us about that. That was great too, Yeah, because we went into it just sort of having an understanding of how it would play out, what the different segments were. But it was like a multi cam operation. There were like screen records happening, a lot of things to sync up. Wasn't like eight cameras something like all and all like eight sources or whatever. Yeah, a lot, Yeah, it was. There was a lot of moving pieces to it. So just being there and seeing it play out and just like getting a visual for like, Okay, I know what I need to set up and post now. From an organizational standpoint, I think it was very helpful for you know, me, the guy who is editing it, to be there on the ground for it. And that's another thing. I think that's really important to note is that sometimes you are the producer and sometimes you're the editor, and sometimes you're the producer and the editor, and it's not always better to be one way or the other. It depends on the project. But I mean that I will say is, isn't you know, an asset to anyone who's you know, looking to either partner with somebody, whether you're looking for efficiency or you know, just your editor has to be a producer in some way, shape or form. You have to make decisions on the spot. But being able to be the producer and the editor, I would imagine allows you to not to be much more efficient because you're asking yourself the question in your head exactly, Yeah, and I'll piece it together. I know how it should look. But at the same time, it's always helpful to you know the way, like all therapists have to see a therapist, you know, passing it off to another producer who can view it with fresh eyes. It's helpful and after big projects sometimes we need therapists. Yeah, yes, So we always like to close these with a couple of questions. So the first is, as it relates to your job, if you had any project that you could do budget client. You know, there were no limitations. What would you do? Is there anything that you would love your dream project? Dream project? I would love to I know a lot of people here have talked about it. Just work on a feature film, horror, comedy, those are my like my favorite genres, but honestly, anything really. I think is also a good time to plug Buildings, your short animation video that you did. Yeah, I have a animated sketch comedy platform that I have been doing since twenty sixteen, and we have a short film called Buildings, which is essentially a parody of cars and other Pixar movies of you know, it begs the question what are your buildings doing when you're not looking at I love that. I love it so much. And then the other question is just out forget the industry and work. What's a bucket list item for Jesse? Oh that's a great question. I don't know. I've never I feel like this might be a cliche answer, but I've never been skydiving. That sounds pretty cool. That sounds really scary, yeah, terrifying, But I think if I did it, I'd be like, Okay, do you think you could get yourself to do, like would you do budgie jumping? I don't know because probably not, because once the fall is over, you just have to do it well. Jesse, look, obviously you I love your story, and you know, the work that you do is amazing. You're very talented, You're skilled, you're an excellent producer, you're a terrific editor. You're a wonderful human being, and I'm so grateful to have you on the team and to be able to work with you every day. Thanks for taking part in this. I am grateful as well. Thank you so much for having me