Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Emma Boyer is back from London and joins Ferol and Ricci to share her key takeaways from the Self Publishing Show (SPS)—Europe’s biggest indie author conference. In this episode, the team breaks down what they saw, heard, and felt at SPS and what it means for indie authors in 2025.
You’ll Learn:
- Emerging trends in streaming vs. subscription audiobook platforms
- How Written Word Media supports authors exploring direct sales and new revenue streams
- How Subscriber Surge Giveaways (SSG) can grow your email list fast
- Tips on budgeting for book promotions that actually move the needle
Featured Guest:
Emma Boyer, VP of Digital Operations and Author Relations at Written Word Media
Emma Boyer, VP of Digital Operations and Author Relations at Written Word Media
If you enjoyed today’s episode, share it with a fellow author and leave us a review. It helps more writers find the show.
The Written Word Podcast is produced by Walk West.
© 2025 Written Word Media, Inc. All rights reserved.
© 2025 Written Word Media, Inc. All rights reserved.
Creators and Guests
What is The Written Word Podcast?
A podcast for authors who want to build successful writing careers. Each episode explores the business and craft of being an author, with practical strategies for selling more books, growing your audience, and navigating the publishing world. Presented by Written Word Media.
Emma: Authors are really starting
to understand the value that
they bring to their audiences.
And it's like that's, I
think that's just amazing.
As a person who has, has felt like
authors have a lot of value and like
they kind of undersell themselves a
lot of the time, it's really cool to
see them kind of designing experiences,
connecting with their fandoms, creating
things they know people want, writing
them into books, special editions.
Sending letters in the mailbox from
characters like the creativity so
cool, is just incredible to see.
And and they really get it right.
They really understand that it's, it's
that connection point that it's, it's
them that is what their fans and readers
really want to see and connect with.
Ferol Vernon: Welcome to
the written word podcast.
Podcast.
For authors who want to build
successful writing careers, I'm Farrell
Vernon and here with Ricky Wallman.
This is the written word, media pod.
Welcome
everybody again to the
written Word Media podcast.
I am Farrell here with Ricky as always.
And today we have Emma Boyer back with us.
Emma is our VP of Digital
operations and author relations.
Welcome back, Emma.
Emma: Thanks.
Glad to be here.
Ferol Vernon: Emma just got back
from London where she attended SBS.
So we're gonna chop it up about
SBS and what happened there.
But Emma, I know you were
there not only for business.
Tell us a little bit
about about your trip.
Emma: Yes, yes.
I was lucky enough to be
able to take a little time.
Across the pond with my family and
we went to the cots walls, which
was beautiful for a few days.
It like, feels like you're in a storybook.
And then transitioned from, from there,
we, we headed down to London where
I went to the conference for kind
of two and a half days, which I will
never complain about a trip to London.
So it was wonderful.
And you guys have been traveling
too, so it's nice that we're,
we're kind of all back at it.
Ferol Vernon: Yes, we had a little bit of
a different, different vibe to our trip.
We were out on the west, west coast at
the national parks doing really outdoorsy
stuff, but pretty excited to be back.
It was a great trip.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah, that's great.
It was amazing.
We as a family, we have this
goal of trying to visit all the
national parks in the US and there
are actually 63, which is a lot.
Wow.
And every, yeah.
Wow.
Every trip is a big trip because the
national parks are not around the corner.
They're always like, you gotta go to the
West coast, or they're a bunch in the.
Good.
They're a bunch in Hawaii, so we're
trying to start with the accessible ones.
And it was really cool
'cause we hit three.
We did Yosemite, Sequoia, and
Kings Canyon, and we have this cool
little scratch off map so when we
get home we get to scratch 'em off
and we've done nine even though
we've been at it for three years.
So it's a really cool way to travel
and the parks were incredible.
Emma: That's amazing.
What's, what percentage
of your total is that?
Ricci Wolman: So nine out of 63.
So you know not very much.
That's okay.
That's okay.
You got time?
Ferol Vernon: Yeah,
Ricci Wolman: we got time.
And we hope it takes a really long time.
'cause the rule is in
order to scratch it off.
All four of us have to be together.
So it's like me feral and the kids.
And so we're hoping that it takes
all the way through their college
years and like when they get
married and when they have kids.
'cause it's just an excuse to all
get together and spend time together.
So it's it's great.
Emma: Oh, I love that.
Well, we missed you guys, but,
but we held it down at Ren
Word media while you were gone.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah.
Thank you.
You and the team as always were amazing.
And yeah, we came back to everything
just being smooth as can be.
Love it.
Ferol Vernon: Smoothing
can be is how we like it.
But Emma, let's talk about your,
your, the work part of your trip.
Okay.
How, how, how we, if we must
let's start with SPS, like maybe for the
folks that haven't been there or heard
of it, just give us like a quick version.
Like what is SPS and,
and like who puts it on.
And then, and then we can talk about
some of, some of what you found there.
Emma: SPS is the biggest author.
It's Self-Publishing Show Live
is, is kind of what it stands for.
And it is the biggest author conference
in Europe and it's really great.
I, this is the second time I've
been there and media I think,
has attended three times total.
That sounds right.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a really great show.
It takes place on the South Bank
of London, so it's obviously
a really amazing location.
Right on the tens, you can see the house
is a parliament from right outside, which
is as inspiring as it gets, I think.
But inside it's, it's also
super inspiring and I am just.
More impressed each year with, with
how organized this conference is.
But it brings in lots of authors, I
think but I, I don't know the actual
number of attendees, but my guess
just eyeballing it is somewhere
between maybe 700 and a thousand.
Oh, wow.
Independent authors, they all kind of.
Converge on the South Bank Center, and
it's a super good mix of inspiration
as well as like real useful stuff.
They do a very good job of
striking the right balance.
And I would say most of the authors
who attend are at least have at
least published one or two titles.
They're sort of in that.
I, I think many of them are
early career as far as their,
their indie author careers go.
They're always.
Super.
I'm always very struck by how much
energy there is in the room, how
excited people are to be there.
The sponsors are kind of like
right outside when you walk in like
the, we're we're first when you
walk in and we at Ri word media
had a sponsored table this year.
So I got to kind of meet people as
they were coming in and whether they.
Were people who had been attending
the conference every year,
or this was their first year.
I think the enthusiasm level was the same.
People are just so excited to come, kind
of get a sense of where the industry
is, meet other indie authors, and
James Blat puts, puts the conference
on with Katherine Matthews and, and
I just can't say enough about what a
good job they do, but also the people,
the, the attendees are really, I think.
Fans of theirs anyway, listening to their
podcasts in, in the, the self-publishing
school, Facebook groups, all of the above.
So it's a great show.
I I, this year was a little different.
The format was the first day was,
was just how I described as kind
of a single track conference where
the vast number of authors come,
go, listen to sessions, come out.
Kind of mill about between sessions
and day one is pretty focused on
kind of where the industry is.
Some kind of base level, I don't
wanna say base level because
it's not it's, it's not entire.
It's not like how do
you put a book on KDP?
It's not that level, but it is.
Okay.
Do you wanna level up your marketing
or learn more about audio books?
Like it's very much starting from a point
of assuming that you've published, which
I these, these folks absolutely have.
So I think you could attend day
one and you would've have had a
wonderful, well-rounded experience.
Day two this year was a kind
of dedicated mastermind and the
attendance was much more limited, so.
I don't think it was limited.
I, I don't know this, but I don't
think it was limited on any criteria,
but number so I think there were
about 250 authors on day two.
And this was like if day one
was the 100 level courses, day
two was the 300 level courses.
It was deep dives into to
particular topics and there were
I think five, and they were a
little bit more workshop focused.
So it was I, and day two was
I, I think, much more kind of
focused on the nuts and bolts.
But I think if you walked in there on
day two and wanted to learn anything
about kind of some of these topics
that were, were hot topics like
direct sales or using AI automations.
You absolutely walked away with a concrete
plan as well as some kind of inspiration
on how to level up your author career.
So I think that's exactly what you
want from a conference and they,
they just do such a good job.
Ferol Vernon: That's amazing.
Let me ask you this question.
So you said it's the biggest
conference in Europe, which most of the
conferences we attend are in the states.
Like what portion of the
attendees would you say were from?
Like the European
continent versus elsewhere?
Like how many people traveled from
different countries to get there?
I'm just curious.
Emma: A lot of people traveled
from different countries, but
I would, I do think they were.
90% European.
Ferol Vernon: That's so cool.
That's great.
That's
Emma: awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there, there were some
like US and Canadian based
folks that I did chat with but.
Mostly we were most, I think
most of the people from, from
the US were vendors, honestly.
So it was, it was yeah, I think it's cool.
And, and like you said, Farrell,
I think that's really right.
In, in years past this is changing
somewhat, but most of the indie author
conferences have been really centered
in the US so it's really amazing for
folks who are it's like not in their
budget, whether it's time or money.
Go to Las Vegas or Florida
multiple times a year.
It's really wonderful for them to
be able to, to do a little bit of a
shorter trip and, and head to London.
Ricci Wolman: James does does such an
incredible job and, and Catherine as well.
It's just like a really cool conference.
I'm also a huge fan of the single
track conference because it takes away
all of that decision fatigue to stand
there and be like, oh, what session?
And then have fomo because there's
a session that you're not in, but
you're in a different session.
And I feel like it just streamlines
the whole process for authors.
And that's my favorite type of
conference is just like one track.
Everyone's kind of doing the same thing.
And then there's also a lot of good time
for like, milling about and talking to
other authors, which is really cool.
Emma: Yeah, absolutely.
And you don't really feel like you're
missing out on something if you're
having a conversation during a break.
And the other cool thing is because
the South Bank Center is like a,
it's like a performance venue, I
think it really feels, it feels cool.
It feels like an event.
Like you're, you're in a big
room, like where you would see a.
Rock band play.
Right.
And James is up there with the lights
on and, and and it, so then I think, I
think that just kind of adds a little
something to the atmosphere too.
Ferol Vernon: Emma, what was
like the vibe at the conference?
Like, you talked a little bit about
like the format and organizers and
stuff, but like, what was the, the
tone, you said it was exciting, but
like, what were people talking about?
What was like sort of the, usually there's
like a main theme or two at a conference
that that's sort of the buzzy topic.
What, what was that?
Emma: There were definitely a few
main themes this year that, that
were different from conferences,
other conferences that I've attended.
The first one I would say was, this
doesn't sound new, but I think it's kind
of a new bent which is audio books, I
think in audiobooks are not a new thing,
not a new thing for any authors either.
But I think there are some kind of
major game changing things happening in
the audiobook space that are bringing
audiobooks to kind of top of mind again
for authors, one of which is AI narration
which is obviously making audiobook
production much less cost prohibitive.
In addition to that.
One thing that I hadn't really kind
of clocked but I thought was, was
really fascinating was there's a lot
of conversation about how there's
sort of a shift in the audiobook
space from kind of subscription
models to, from that to streaming
models and, and so that has been.
Really interesting as far as changing
the marketplace and sales opportunities.
So whereas with eBooks or print books,
there are a very small number of retailers
that people are going to, and essentially
buying in one way that is no longer true.
With audiobooks, people are listening
to them on lots of different platforms,
in lots of different formats, like in
little bits or big bits, and those.
This poses a really cool opportunity
for, for India authors to
diversify their revenue streams.
And yeah, I think the, this is a place
where I think we're starting to see
authors actually get more control over
their distribution and better royalties,
which is something that is not a new
conversation for indie authors for sure.
But it's really cool to kind
of watch that happen and, and
see this open up as, as far as.
New channels for, for authors.
So yeah, a lot of, a lot
of conversation about that.
And questions for me specifically about
kind of, okay, so, so if I do this, if
I go after promoting, like making my
audiobooks and making them available
on my direct store and on Spotify
and all these other places, Libby and
Overdrive and libraries and everything,
like how do I actually promote them?
So that was interesting.
I think that much more.
A much more substantial share of
kind of the, the time and energy
was spent on audiobooks than than
any conference I've been to before.
Ferol Vernon: That's really
cool, really interesting.
I think one of the things we hear all
the time is, is sort of like there's a
lot of people talking about ai, right?
And, and the opinions are
all over the map, right?
Some people are like, oh, it's the devil.
Some people say, oh, it's amazing.
A lot of things in between.
I think audio is one of the most
interesting applications because
especially for independent authors
where to get an audiobook produced,
even with a relatively inexpensive
narrator is gonna cost you at least
a thousand dollars historically.
Right?
Like, almost that's almost cheap.
And now with AI narration, which I've
listened to some snippets, I've actually
listened to a whole book, but I listen
to some snippets like it's pretty good.
And so it's just really interesting that
author could, have their book read by
AI that might cost 10 bucks or 50 bucks
or something instead of a thousand.
It's just a, a dramatic
reduction in cost for them.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah.
And a lot of the platforms
are starting to build that in.
So if you wanna mm-hmm.
Distribute through an Audible or
a Spotify, they'll actually help
you with the, the narration if
you wanna use like a regular ai.
But then if you wanna
actually use your own voice.
11 Labs has some really interesting
technology, so and the technology's
only getting better, so I think
we're just at the beginning.
So it is very, very exciting.
Yeah,
Emma: it was it was
actually really interesting.
Sorry.
There's Sean McManus is the, the, I think
the vice president of Dreamscape, and
he was talking, he gave like a 10 minute
talk about kind of the, the state of
audio where he sees it, and exactly what
you said, Ricky, like, we're, we're kind
of on the precipice of, of the big jump.
And he said like if people asked me
to choose, I would still say like a
human narrated audiobook is better.
But I don't know that that's
gonna be true in a month.
Or six months or a year.
So, so that was really interesting.
And I think you're exactly right
as far as the timeliness goes.
Ferol Vernon: That's a
really honest answer.
It was.
I think it, that's really cool that,
that somebody gave that, because I think
that's so true is like with the pace
of technology changing as fast as it
is, like you really can't say like when
some of these changes are gonna happen.
And a lot of people try to pretend
like they really know what's going on
and say, oh, it's gonna be five years
before X, Y, Z and like, I, I just
don't think that's an honest answer.
I think that's very dismissive given.
How fast everything's moving.
Emma: There's also like, for me
personally, and I'm curious to hear
your experiences about this too,
but like, I feel super entrenched
in kind of the ebook world as far as
distribution and marketing obviously.
And from my publishing
background, like the.
Print book World is something I'm super
familiar with as well, but audio and
these kind of new frontiers of audio
in, in terms of like international
audio rights and international audio
sales and like library distribution and
streaming, like it is, it is a really
different world and, and some things
are transferrable from, from the other
formats that we work with so, so much
and some things I think are really new
and, and that's really cool and exciting.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah, it really is.
And we're always looking at
how we can help authors with
the marketing side of things.
And it's interesting because audio
Thicket, which is one of our promo sites
that only helps promote audio has been
around for quite a few years already.
And in the beginning we wanted
it to be a multi-platform.
Promo brand, like the initial emails
and audience building was around,
Hey, here are books and you can find,
go get it on, apple Books and Google
Play and Audible was only one of the
options, and the audience wasn't there.
We basically found that like all
the clicks were on the audible books
and everyone still had water audible
membership, so we basically changed
the offering to where like the primary.
Weekly email for promotion for authors was
on Audible because that's what actually
worked and that's where the audience was.
And now I think really just in the
last 12 months, and I think Spotify
has spearheaded a lot of this
audience, consumers are actually
listening on multiple platforms.
And Audible isn't the only
option that's out there.
And we're internally now
looking at, okay, let's start.
Changing the, the audio thicket
offering so that we can now get
those audiences built into our
platform so authors can reach them.
But it is really interesting how so
much of like what works in marketing
is about the convergence of timing and
technology and also where the consumer is.
'cause a lot of times we.
As authors ourselves or as technologists
or entrepreneurs, we're ready for, okay,
we wanna market on here and we want
people to like buy this on our store.
And the consumer's like,
no, that's too hard.
Or, I'm not there yet.
I still like this little place where I am.
And that's really starting to change
in audio, so it's super exciting.
Ferol Vernon: Yeah, I think consumer
reader slash listener preferences
are always something that we have to
be really mindful of as a marketing
company because while our primary
customer obviously is authors, our
product won't work unless we understand
what's going on with the readers.
And so I think it's always
good to talk about that.
I, I actually think
that's a nice segue, Emma.
'cause we're the other thing
you mentioned was direct sales.
And that's been a really hot
topic in the industry for a while.
And direct sales is something where
authors I think clearly are ready for it.
Right.
Whether or not readers are ready for it
is something that we're still exploring.
But what was the sort of vibe
about, about direct sales and
some of the talks there at SPS?
Emma: Yes.
It was sort of interesting.
Before this conference, the most
recent conference I'd attended
was, was Author Nation last fall.
And of course different audience,
different show, but it, but it, I saw
sort of a market difference I think.
We've seen a lot of hype about direct
sales for the past few years, but I
think this is the first time that it
very much felt like part of the fabric.
It's just like a foregone
conclusion that people will be
direct selling, and that was, was
definitely a shift that I noticed.
I think that Ricky, it's interesting,
you're, you were kind of talking
about tools there with audio books.
That, that this is the,
this is the same thing.
I think tools are starting
to catch up a little bit.
This is an area where authors were ahead
of the tools for a while, like what
they wanted was ahead of the tools.
But people are starting to, to support
authors better with direct sales.
Like there are the direct sales
accounting companies that are
helping, helping authors like.
Keep track of their royalties across
all platforms in a really easy way.
There are actual direct sales
platforms cropping up that, that
help authors do this without
having to kind of build an entire
e-commerce structure for themselves.
So yeah, I think what
you said is really right.
Farrell direct sales are not new.
But the way authors approach them is
absolutely evolving and the industry is
kind of catching up with them and authors
are really like understanding, which
I think is really, really cool to see.
But authors are really starting to
understand the value that they bring
to their audiences and it's like
that's, I think that's just amazing.
as a person who has, has felt like
authors have a lot of value and like they
kind of undersell themselves a lot of
the time, it's really cool to see them.
Kind of designing experiences,
connecting with their fandoms, creating
things they know people want, writing
them into books, special editions,
like sending letters in the mailbox
from characters like the creativity
so Cool, is just incredible to see.
And and they really get it right.
They really understand that it's, it's
that connection point that it's, it's
them that is what their fans and readers
really want to see and connect with.
And, and that's just.
I think that's really cool.
And it also made me think a lot about
the way authors are treating kind
of their whole ecosystem as content
as opposed to like book, book, book.
Like that has been interesting.
Yeah.
Like that.
That was really.
Kind of an interesting thing.
You know, it's, it's things that we
think about a lot on the marketing side.
Like, here's content.
How can we use it?
How can we repurpose it?
How can we reach audience with it?
Um, authors are starting to do that
in a really fun and creative way.
So I found that really inspiring and
also just kind of like heartwarming.
I was, I'm, I'm really happy that,
that, that the industry is catching
up here, but yes, absolutely.
And as far as written
word media goes, like.
I, it was great to be able
to tell people like, yes, of
course we support direct sales.
Like, just include your link and.
We're happy to include it in your promo.
So, so yeah, people definitely, they are
interested in pushing traffic to their
stores, building their audiences, building
their lists, all that kind of good stuff.
But, but yeah, it, it
was really fun to see
Ferol Vernon: any standout direct sales,
uh, takeaways for, for the listeners.
Like, was there, there one overriding.
Piece of advice or theme
that that kept coming up?
Or was it really, like you said, much
more woven into the fabric of discussions?
Emma: If I had to say like one thing,
I think the other, there's a shift
that authors are implementing from
selling a product, which is their
books to building a relationship,
and that relationship is really.
Influencing the strategy that they're
using for, for kind of everything else.
And so, yeah, I think that's, as
far as marketing is concerned, that
obviously has implications as far
as the, the content they're creating
and even the books they're writing.
You know, it's, it's really, um,
interesting to see it, it shift
from kind of more transactional
to more relationship focused.
Ferol Vernon: That's so insightful.
I think that's such a good
point that like, and it's, and
it's such a cool thing to see.
It's, you know, brands is, and, and
companies from the beginning of history
right, have created relationships
with their customers and that's
how they've been successful, right?
There's people around the line
at the Apple store, right?
People like wearing Nike stuff, like
on their shirt, walking around and
like, you know, associating yourself
with the brand has always been.
Something that people do, and to see
authors sort of really leaning into
that, I think it's both heartworm,
but it's also really exciting.
Right?
It's really cool that they're, they're
starting to use those techniques and
I think that's gonna pay dividends
for anybody that that pursues it.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah.
I think we always say people connect with
people and people wanna support people
and, and with authors, the author is.
Themselves are the brand.
So I think, um, it makes it a lot
easier in some ways because you don't
have to create like some big corporate
brand that stands for something.
But then I think it's also challenging
in other ways because if you are a
more introverted or private person,
finding that balance between how much.
Of yourself, you wanna put that out
there as a brand versus, you know, how
much you wanna keep private, at least
in the beginning can be fairly daunting.
But I do think it's the future of
where authorship is going and the
successful authors have figured out
how to build those relationships in
a way that's comfortable for them.
Ferol Vernon: Absolutely.
I think even like collaborations,
we're starting to see.
Put, put their brand under one
author name or one pen name.
because the whole world has built
around resonating with that brand.
And I think it, it works great.
Emma, I know you had a table and you, and
you had a lot of authors walking by and
chatting to you and we've talked offline
about how wonderful things they had to
say about us and, and you in particular.
But like, what were some of the
questions that might be interesting to
the listeners that you got as people
were passing by and, and saying hi?
Emma: Yeah, I, I'll, I'll give you the
questions, but you gave me the answers.
I did it.
I did it so many times.
How answered these questions and I'm
Ferol Vernon: trying to
throw it to you, Emma.
Emma: I, I'm done.
That's how this works.
You guys answer it?
No, I did it so many times.
It's your turn.
But yes, so there was a lot of interest in
our subscriber search giveaways product.
Obviously the, the connection there is
people are trying to build audience for,
to bring to their direct sales platforms
or their audiobooks platform, but.
People were really interested in how many
subscribers they would get, as well as
how many books they could run at a time.
So if they had a big back list how,
how many books would we let them run?
Ricci Wolman: Yeah, I'd love to
talk about this 'cause I subscriber
surge giveaways or SSG as we call it
internally is near and dear to my heart.
It's also one of our services or
tools that I'm really close to.
Like, I'm literally looking at the
numbers every week to see how many
subscribers our authors getting, making
sure that it's working really well.
So, to back up for a second, I'll
just explain how it works and then
we'll talk about what to expect.
But a subscriber search
giveaway is basically a grouped.
Giveaway.
So you sign up with us at Written
Word Media, and so do a bunch of
other authors, usually between 15
and 20 authors, and you grab a slot
or a spot in one of our giveaways.
The giveaways start on
the first of the month.
So you sign up and you say,
okay, I wanna be in your.
August giveaway.
And then on August 1st what we do is we
package up the 20 books and a free Kindle
and we say to readers, consumers, Hey,
enter this giveaway to win 20 books plus
a Kindle, or 15 books plus a Kindle.
And we run the giveaway out over 60 days.
And what we're doing in the backend is
we're marketing that giveaway really
heavily so that a lot of readers are
coming in to that page, they're entering
the giveaway, but as part of entering
to the giveaway, they're also joining.
The email lists of the authors who are
participating in the giveaway themselves.
So we're monitoring how many people
are signing up for each of the
lists over that 60 day period.
The number of subscribers and author will
get is somewhat dependent on the genre.
So on average, our giveaways are producing
three to 400 subscribers per giveaway,
but some of them are vastly more popular.
So like a steamy romance or a
fantasy romance can get five or
600 subscribers for each author.
And then some of the more niche.
Like self-help or business might
be on the lower end where it's like
two to 300 subscribers per author.
The really cool thing about the
giveaway is like, as an author, you
can grab those subscribers as they come
in, so you don't have to wait for 60
days to then email those subscribers.
You go into your portal on August
3rd, and you can grab those 10
subscribers and you can go back in
the next day and grab the next five
subscribers and you just import them
into your, your email service provider.
That might be kit or MailChimp, or.
Constant contact, whatever
you're using, and you can start
communicating, building a relationship
with those readers right away.
And then at the end of the 60
day period, we choose a winner.
We do all the fulfillment, which
I think is slightly different from
some other giveaways out there.
So.
We will gift the books,
we will gift the Kindle.
There's no more work that
the author needs to do.
All you need to do is sign up, pick
your slot, and you're included.
And then make sure to grab
those subscribers and start
communicating with them.
'cause the earlier you communicate
with them, the, the more deeply you can
build that relationship and, and those,
those new subscribers don't get stale.
Ferol Vernon: Just to bring us back,
the, the Emma's question was two
part one, like how, how does it work
and how many subscribers do I get?
So that's.
We have that check mark, right?
And then like, how many
books can I run at one time?
Which I thought was a really interesting
question because it's not one that
we see a whole lot in the inbox,
or at least I don't see it in the
inbox a lot, but it is it, I think
demonstrative of how effective.
This building can be that people
are like, how much more can I get?
How much more can I do?
Yeah, yeah.
Ricky think we just
Ricci Wolman: have done this.
They're like, they're gimme more
first of every month they, they grab
a slot on August 1st, then they're
grabbing another slot on September 1st.
So how the giveaways work is
that they are genre specific.
So what we recommend is if you're
a mystery author, you only promote
one book per giveaway because you're
with every book that you put in.
You're getting that subscriber opt-in box.
So putting two or three books in
isn't necessarily gonna increase your,
your odds of getting new subscribers.
So I think it's okay or it's recommended
to do one book per giveaway, but you
can do giveaways every single month.
With different books.
The other benefit to the giveaway is
your book is getting a lot of impressions
because we are running ads, so a lot of
the ads will have the cover of your book,
the name of you as an author, when when
readers come in and hit the giveaway page.
Your book is listed there, so you're
getting a lot of really great, great
brand impressions as part of this as well.
Now what you could do is you could
participate, say you're like, I really
wanna do this, and I really want
more than one giveaway in a month.
If your book fits multiple genres, so say
we have a mystery giveaway and a separate
thriller giveaway, you could put one of
your books in mystery and one in thriller.
If it's.
Fits that.
And that way you would have
two books running quote
unquote two giveaways running.
And you would get that three
to 400 subscribers from,
from each of the giveaways.
And the way we run our marketing is
each giveaway has separate marketing.
So we're not marketing to
the same pool of readers.
So there, there should,
there'll be some overlap 'cause
we can't control everything.
Some subscribers might join the misery and
the thriller, but for the most part, those
should be distinct signups that you're
getting on those two different giveaways.
Ferol Vernon: Amazing.
Yeah, and I think short plug for
another pod that we did about the
importance of building your mailing
list and some of the more mechanics.
So if you wanna hear Rick and I talk
about that definitely check, check the
feed and, and look at that episode.
Alright, Emma, that's subscriber surge.
What else did you hear?
What were the other questions that,
that were coming down the pike?
Emma: One thing.
I got a lot, which I think
is maybe because of where
the conference was located.
But people wanted to know where our
subscribers are, so where are our
readers who are getting our daily emails?
Ferol Vernon: Yeah, this is a
question we get kind of a lot
which is really interesting that
people care so much about it.
And I think I'll let Ricky
give a few more details.
But the, the number one thing that I
always tell people is we only promote
at least right now, books in English.
And so anywhere that speaks
English, we have an audience.
The US obviously is most of it.
Canada, the uk, Australia, South
Africa some stuff in India.
But pretty much like wherever
English is the primary language.
'cause the books are in English.
In countries where there is no English
books, like we have very small presences.
But that's kind of like the
short version of what people,
of, of what I always tell people.
'cause they're like,
oh, are you worldwide?
And it's like, yes, but Right.
Just places where, where
English books are are sold.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah, I let me add
a little bit of detail to that,
which is, yes, we are English.
The vast majority of our audience is in
America because the America is just the
largest market for books and eBooks.
The other thing is because so
many of our promo sites are deal
based we actually, when we're
building these lists, which we do.
Every single day, we're adding
more subscribers to the list.
When we go out there and market free
Boxy and Bargain Boxy and Red Feather
romance, we're actually only marketing
it to a US audience because we want
the user experience to be really great.
And we know that if someone is in the
US, they're gonna get the deal drops.
They're gonna get the free
box on that particular day.
Now that being said, even though we don't.
Actively market outside of
the US for those promo sites.
A lot of people from English
speaking countries do find us and
they follow us on social media.
So we do have readers who are in
Australia, South Africa, uk, Canada.
So if your book is in one of those markets
and you run a promo with us, you will see.
A lift in one of those other countries.
The last thing that I'll note here is
that Hello Books, which is a brand that's
actually run owned by James Blatch, but
is a brand that we help to run and you
can buy all the promo lots through us.
They actually have a really strong.
English speaking audience
in the UK and Europe.
So if you're looking to kind of really
hit that market, you might wanna do a
promo stack where you're doing one of
our brands, say a bargain boxy or a free
boxy, and then you're putting a hello
box on top of it because that'll help
you reach more deeply into the European.
English speaking reader audience.
Emma: Yeah.
One, one quick, like anecdote I'll share
about that is, is I had an author asking
like, well, how big is your UK audience?
And I'm really only
interested in UK readers.
And I was like, well, why?
Like, what, what about your book?
Do you feel like only UK readers wants to
read want to or would be interested in?
And she.
Talked about how specific it was to like
the very small part of England, where
she lived and how like descriptive it
was about like the town and the geography
and some of the kind of colloquialisms.
And I was like, I would love
to read that as would many.
I was just about to say like,
I love reading like British
Facebook in these small towns.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I just came from the Cotswolds.
I wanna ride that high.
Please, please promote it with us.
So
Ferol Vernon: That's great.
Yeah.
So regardless of where your
book is set, promoting it to a
wide audience tends to do well.
All right.
And we probably have time
for one more question.
What what else came your way?
Emma: Yeah, I think this is a really, the,
the last one I'll throw at you is the,
is one that I, I really did get a lot of,
and I think it was, well, so the question
is what kind of budget do I need to run
a promotion that will move the needle?
And just to give you a little context
here, I don't actually think this was.
Particularly rooted in budget
sensitivity, but more about like
planning or like trying to do due
diligence as far as marketing planning
and how often, how much So, so yeah.
What, what kind of budget
do you think authors need?
Ricci Wolman: Our ethos here at Written
Word Media is like, we're here to support
ND authors as much as we possibly can.
And so for that reason, we have
promos that start at, I think
our cheapest promo is $25.
So what I would say is that it's
kind of like everything else in life.
Like more is more, but that doesn't
mean that just because you can't spend.
Hundreds of dollars on something
that you shouldn't do it.
So what I would probably reverse
the question a little bit and say,
what are you comfortable spending?
'cause we really want these authors
to be comfortable with the amount
that they're spending and marketing.
We don't want you stretching to a place
where you're uncomfortable and then
based on what you're comfortable with,
we probably have a solution for you.
So if you only have a really small
budget, you can just run one promo
with one of our sites that'll
run you 25 to a hundred dollars.
If you have a larger budget, then we
would recommend that you start doing
things like promo stacking where you run.
On multiple sites within both
our family and outside of the
written word, media family.
'cause that is gonna give you
a bigger bang for your buck.
One of the upsides maybe to the dollar
being weaker right now for our European.
Is that actually your pounds and
euros go further than they, they did.
All of our pricing is in dollars.
And so for you, effectively our prices
have all dropped over the past month
just because of the, the exchange rate.
So you know, that's just an aside.
But I think you gotta figure
out what you're comfortable with
and then we will have something
within your price range in order.
To help you move the needle, and all
of our promos will move the needle, but
the more you promote, the more sites
you're on, the larger the audience the
higher that needle is going to move.
Ferol Vernon: Yeah, I think the, the
one thing I would add for that is,
is sometimes when I talk to authors
that they're so conservative, right?
They're so worried about budget, and I
understand that like a lot of times this
is something that's a dream that they're
trying to do the day job and like take a
little bit of extra cash or to try to, so
like, I, I totally understand that, but
I do think experimentation is key, right?
Understanding.
Like, Hey, if I spend 50 bucks, what
happens if I spend a hundred bucks?
What happens if I spend $300?
What happens?
And.
What can sometimes happen for
authors that are just trying to
keep the promotion in their comfort
zone is that they never break out.
Right?
They never, and, and it
doesn't work for everybody.
So I, I really wanna like, add that caveat
that like, just spending more is not
always the solution, but if you've never
bought like a three or $400 promo stack
with us, it is worth trying because you
get a lot of promotion at once and you see
if that works for you and your books and
your readers and all that kind of stuff.
It's not something you have to do
again, I mean, our stuff is not
recurring, but you know, I have talked
to a lot of authors who spend a ton
on promotion because it works and it
worked for them at a low spend too.
Right.
But, but it worked twice
as well at a higher spend.
And I think that's the one thing that,
that obviously we don't want people
being uncomfortable and spending
your last a hundred dollars on a,
on a promo, like go buy groceries.
But I think please don't
Ricci Wolman: do that.
Yeah, yeah, no.
Ferol Vernon: Like, but within
reason scaling up your marketing
budget or your promotional budget,
or however you think about it, can
give you a lot of information about.
About how big your author career can get.
And if you always stay low it
doesn't mean you won't have that
chance, but it, it does make it
a little harder to figure out.
And so I think that's the experiment
with, with the different levels of spend.
And if spending a hundred bucks
gives you a bigger bang for the buck
than spending 300, then do that.
I think that's, that's kind of
the advice I tend to give people.
Ricci Wolman: Yeah.
I think the last thing I'd say on
this is we're here to support you.
Yeah.
So if you're really lost, if
you're really like, I dunno
where to start, like that was.
Not helpful answer from either of
you, just right into the inbox.
And we, we do have a a team of
people who'd be happy to help you
and say, Hey, given your goals
and give your budget, this is what
we would recommend that you do.
And we always we're here to
support and help authors.
So if you, if you do spend.
A little more and you don't see the
results and you right in generally,
we'll, we'll work through you to try
and like layer on another promo or
something of that nature to kind of
get you where, where you need to go.
But experimentation, as Ferrell
said, is, is really important.
But you do have to pair that
with staying within your comf
comfort zone to some degree.
Ferol Vernon: Yeah, exactly.
Like everybody's, everybody's got
a budget and, and how you allocate
it at, at the end of the day is,
is your decision as an author.
And we're just giving you advice, so,
so please make decisions for yourselves.
Ricci Wolman: The other thing I'd
say is, is also thinking about the
time versus money trade off, right?
So this is something that.
Is kind of inherently
against our human nature.
We, we tend to value like our cash
more than we value our time, which is
somewhat nonsensical because time is
like a completely limited resource.
Whereas you can always go
out and, and earn more money.
And so when you're all looking at what
you're thinking about doing when it
comes to promotion if you say, okay.
I'm only gonna spend the $50,
but then I'm gonna spend two
days doing organic marketing or
walking the streets or something.
You might wanna be like, well,
how much is those One or two days?
Worth for me if I could be
writing another book instead.
And should I not just put another a
hundred bucks in and 450 bucks get
the same that I would versus spending
all of my time trying to get a result
that's maybe not as guaranteed.
So layering that third element on
which is the time versus money is
something else to take into account.
Ferol Vernon: Yeah.
And we're gonna do another pod about sort
of personal productivity tips where we'll
dive deeper into just what Ricky said
because we're both huge believers in, in.
Figuring out how to exchange
time and money efficiently to,
to get what you want outta life.
So we'll definitely do a PO on that.
But I think that's all the
time we've got for today.
Emma, thank you for your,
your insight, your travel and
all your takeaways from SPS.
It was great.
It was great talking to you.
Emma: Yeah.
Thanks for having, we welcome.
Come with you next year.
Please do.
Ferol Vernon: Let's do it.
Record from London next year.
Ooh.
Ooh, I like
Emma: that On location.
On location.
Okay.
Ferol Vernon: Amazing.
Well, thank you so much
for Ricky and Emma.
I'm Ferrell.
Thank you so much for listening today.
This has been the written Word Media
Podcast, and we'll see you next time.
Ricci Wolman: See ya.