Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast

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Recorded at Ten86 Lounge in Hawthorne, New Jersey, the lizards pair Foundation Cigar's El Güegüense in Toro Huaco with Mount Gay XO Rum. The guys smoke one of Pagoda’s old favorites, they discuss the cigar industry’s major legal victory over the FDA, they learn that DoorDash is delivering cigars in Texas and they discuss the spotted lanternfly invasion. PLUS: Rooster gifts the lizards with a custom cigar stand.

Visit Troy's Woodworks to learn more about the cigar stand Rooster ordered for the Lizards: troyswoodworks.com

Join the Lounge Lizards for a weekly discussion on all things cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban), whiskey, food, travel, life and work. This is your formal invitation to join us in a relaxing discussion amongst friends and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

website/merch/rating archive: loungelizardspod.com
email: hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
instagram: @loungelizardspod

What is Lounge Lizards - a Cigar and Lifestyle Podcast?

Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.

The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.​

This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.

Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!

**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. So good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Senator Pagoda, and bam bam. And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some rum, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.

So take this as your 95th. Official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it and give you our formal lizard rating. We smoke one of pagodas old favorites. We discussed the cigar industry's major legal victory over the F D A.

We learned that DoorDash is delivering cigars in Texas and we discussed the spotted lantern fly invasion all among a variety of other things for the next 90 minutes. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair mount gay XO rum with foundation cigars. El Gueguense in Toro Huaco tonight from Foundation on [00:01:00] the pod.

It's called the El Gueguense Toro Huaco. It's a 56 ring gauge cigar by six inches. And Pagoda is so excited to smoke it. Boys. He lit it about 10 minutes ago. Yes he did. Oh, absolutely.

**Bam Bam:** It looks like a double Torah. One of my favorites.

**Pagoda:** It fits straight into my mouth.

**Bam Bam:** Oh boy. Alright. Hey

**Pagoda:** listen,

**Gizmo:** it's a, I mean, this is a beautiful cigar, man.

Yeah. It's beautifully made. Great. So the other cigar we did from Foundation was the Tabernacle. Yeah. Which performed, uh, pretty well. Yep. Nick Mao's Company. We can get into the history a little bit, but First Boys, let's cut this thing. See we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. This was a recommendation from Pagoda.

Used to smoke the cigar a lot, right?

**Pagoda:** Uh, yeah, I used to smoke a lot. Um, these, uh, I was introduced, uh, to this, uh, by either Cliff or I forgot the name of the guy at Nat Sherman. So I used to go to Nat Sherman a [00:02:00] lot. Uh, and this is, we are talking about, I just moved to the city in 2015, you know, started gonna Nat Sherman again.

It was great. You know, after work I would just go drop by for a cigar and, you know, I was really into New World, as you all know. And, um, at that point in time, uh, one of the guys introduced me to this and I really, uh, really enjoyed the cigar at that point in time. And it became, uh, one of my go-tos. And so whenever I felt that I didn't know where to smoke or was, uh, hesitating, I would just, uh, pick one of these.

**Gizmo:** Mm-hmm. I gotta tell you, this foot and the wrapper, it smells incredible. The cold draw's great. Mm-hmm. Fruity. Right. A little fruity. This could be the most, uh, fruit forward cold draw that we've had on the podcast.

**Bam Bam:** Raisin plum. I'm getting

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Right. High expectations. Certainly. I was surprised when it came in.

Obviously it's a Toro, but this is a significant size cigar. Oh, it's a monster. I mean, this is not little. No. I, [00:03:00]

**Pagoda:** I forget. I forget how toros really, uh, really look meaning this is huge. I can't imagine I smoked these, this, this is what pagoda used to smoke

**Senator:** before

**Pagoda:** he met us. Hey, listen. Absolutely. Now he's a ERO guy.

Yeah, the Lanzaro guy. And into mild and medium, you know.

**Bam Bam:** So

**Gizmo:** Nice cold draw. Yeah. Great cold draw. Yeah. Alright, boys, let's light this thing. The El wee Toro Waco, it's a 56 ring gauge cigar by six inches long. It's a Nicaraguan Pirro Roho 99 in all aspects of the cigar wrapper, binder and filler. Mm-hmm. How much were these under?

10 bucks. Really? Yeah. Wow. Very reasonable. Again, this is from Foundation Cigar. Nick Mlo, the former man who was in charge of tobacco at Drew Estate for a long period of time. This was his first cigar that he launched under his own brand, obviously has a lot more than that now. And, [00:04:00] uh, people love the cigar like pagoda.

**Pagoda:** I used to meeting, I haven't had these for quite some time. Uh, but yeah, meeting this really, like, I bought boxes of these, uh, obviously, uh, going to na shemen, you know, you in those days you used to get the opportunity to meet, uh, the guys, uh, likening, mlo, um, in events and, uh, you know, I don't remember much of the story because I was drinking a lot, but, uh, you know, firsthand, firsthand it was me, him and a buddy of mine child, we, three of us were just hanging out and talking to him for maybe half hour and um, I dunno, we don't call Whoe.

**Gizmo:** Oh gosh. So this is pretty nice on the white guys. It's a pretty full

**Bam Bam:** flavored cigar right off the bat. Yeah.

**Pagoda:** Ngan meaning, you know, I would imagine at least it used to be so much more in my flavor [00:05:00] profile. I think, uh, the likelihood of us enjoying it, I thought would be high. Well, I'm glad

**Senator:** we have it in a Toro because there's so little flavor.

We just need as much of this as we can get.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah.

**Pagoda:** It does come in a landero as well, by the way.

**Gizmo:** Oh, oh, wow. It comes, I'm seeing it comes in five sizes. Corona Gorda. 46 by 5.6 of Reto, 50 by five and a half of Churchill. 48 by seven. Maybe that's the one you're thinking. Yeah. Maybe that's all the torpedo 52 by 6.2.

And this is the Toro, Waco 56 by six.

**Pagoda:** So this is what I used to smoke and that's why I'm glad we, we are doing this. Uh, although I know that, uh, Nick's favorite size is not this one. I think it's a different size. I dunno which one it was. But, but he was very excited by the cigar. I think it's his, uh, first cigar

**Gizmo:** that he made, uh, the Yeah.

Foundation. This is the first one. Yeah, this is the first one that came out when foundation was launched in the, I think it was in the mid 2000 tens, [00:06:00] late 2000 tens. And we did a whole history on, uh, the foundation on that previous episode. So if you're interested in that, check it out. But boys, I'm getting a really, a ton of flavor on this, but not, I'm not, it's not kicking me around, which I'm happy about.


**Bam Bam:** And I'm not getting a specific note. But it's enjoyable. I'm liking it. I'm still getting the raisin and plum that I got in a cold draw.

**Senator:** Do you get a little coffee? Absolutely. Yeah. Rip.

**Gizmo:** Mm-hmm. Espresso little coffee at the end though. Yeah. I'm getting some sweetness at the front. Mm-hmm. As soon as I draw it in just a touch of sweetness.

Um, it's, it's still fruity. Yeah. And there's definitely, definitely coffee there as well. There's a lot of tobacco in this. Oh, you can, this is a heavy cigar heft

**Bam Bam:** for $10. This is a true value it seems for what you're getting. And the

**Gizmo:** draw, the construction is excellent. Oh, yeah. Wide

**Senator:** open. I mean, that's one thing I give foundation credit for.

Generally there cigars are all very excessively priced. Mm-hmm. I've never had this cigar, but there's a kind of newer version that they [00:07:00] made of it called The Wise Man Maduro.

**Gizmo:** Um, that has the red

**Senator:** band, correct? That's right. I've heard of that. This, this is like the original Wiseman and then they came out with the Maduro version.

The only reason I tried that, uh, I had mentioned the cigar bar, Shelly's in, uh, in DC that I, uh, visit a lot. Every year when ca has the top 25, they get all the new worlds that are in the top 25. And that Wiseman Maduro was like within the top 10 or top five one year. So that's why I tried it. It was actually pretty good.

I bought a box after having it. So Pagoda was telling me that he likes the original Wiseman, so I'm glad we're trying this. Yeah,

**Pagoda:** no, I, I tried the Maduro once. I, I didn't enjoy it as much, at least in those days. And I just stuck to, you know, like the thing about me. I stick to what I like for, for quite some time.

And this was one of those, uh, where I, I used to smoke this, uh, and introduced, uh, a lot of my friends to it and I think everybody enjoyed it, uh, at least for that period of time. Uh, we are talking about mid 2015, 16.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. So the [00:08:00] pronunciation of the name on this was something I certainly got wrong. Leading up to the episode, even I put it in that intro thing that I do so people can, you know, the lizards out there can grab cigars that we're gonna smoke.

It is not kae, it is w wee w wee w wee even though there's a lot of gss in it. Uh, it is l w wee and it's a Nicaraguan pirro. And there's an interesting anecdote on Foundation's website about the line that I'll read. It says, for 500 years, Nicaragua has served as a crossroads of cultures, even since indigenous inhabitants mocked, arriving Spanish conquistadors as a colorful costumed, satirical masterpiece called El Wee or the Wise men.

That's what that means. Obviously, it's Nicaragua's signature work of drama, the ultimate expression of its unique history, language, dance, and culture. This Grand Bale or great dance, continues today, not only in the form of long held folklore performances, but in the careful blending of Nicaraguan tobacco, [00:09:00] which is some of the richest, most flavorful filler tobacco in the world.

I thought that was a nice little, uh, very nice little blurb about the cigar. Well written, interesting history too. Um, you know, to the name of the cigar too, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah.

**Pagoda:** But I, you know, I haven't heard a, a lot from Nick, uh, Malila recently. Right. Like, I'm sure that he's introducing new cigars, but, uh, I.

Yeah, it seems like he's definitely an up and comer in the, the guy industry with his own brand. Of course, I, I think he was involved in Liga number nine, by the way.

**Gizmo:** Yeah, he was the tobacco head for all of Drew State and I think he was very involved in LIGA and the Underground series as well. But so Foundation has a lot of offerings.

Uh, well Wednesday, as we know, we just spoke about the Wiseman Maduro, which is the sister cigar to this, the Tabernacle, which we did the high Claire Castle, charter Oak, the Upsetters Manic Night Commander, MEPA, and then finally Olmec, which has been [00:10:00] a cigar. I've seen a lot of guys smoking. I've had that a few times.

Is that Olmec cigar? Yeah, I've had that. That is one of his, I didn't realize it was one of his until we came in today, but. Um, yeah, I've actually had some listeners request that, so we'll have to is right, add that to the list. We

**Senator:** have to do that on the podcast because I, I feel like I just keep seeing people smoke it constantly and instantly I look at the label and I'm like, is that like a attempt at Cohiba?

I know it's true Labeling or something. I'm always very confused when I see it, but it's very popular. It's a, it's a

**Bam Bam:** nice cigar. It does need to dry out a bit when you buy it from the store. No doubt. This though. The aroma is fantastic.

**Gizmo:** This is good. Yeah. By the way, I wanted to say pagoda was correct. He does offer Alan zero now.

It's seven and a half by 40 and an odd 13 count box, which is pretty cool. There's also a, uh, little perfecto, uh, four inch by 60. So like I said, all of the tobacco wrapper, binder and filler are [00:11:00] ROHO 99 and also in, uh, in the filler is Creo HO 98. And they all come in. 25 count boxes except for the lance that I just mentioned.

And Cigar aficionado gives the line a 92 point. Wow. Oh wow. So we'll see how we compare tonight. Like, uh, Senator said it ended up in the, uh, top 25, which is why you had it at Shelly's, by the way. I had a listener email us, uh, saying that because of your recommendation, they went to Shelly's and absolutely loved it.

**Senator:** So I love hearing that. Yeah, it's a great spot. Yeah. DC DC it's the only spot right

**Gizmo:** now.

**Senator:** It's the only spot. DC Yep. DC Which is a tragedy. I know.

**Pagoda:** I'm glad I left DC

**Bam Bam:** Oh, boy.

**Pagoda:** Well, we have 11 spots in New York. Uh, yeah, I'm sure they're on the decline, but wow. They're, they've

**Senator:** been, they've been on the decline for a while now.

**Pagoda:** I know. It's like we are the pariah community, but what do we do?

**Gizmo:** So I'm getting a little bit of a taua Hey type pepper thing on this.

**Rooster:** Yeah, I was just gonna [00:12:00] say, I, I'm getting that pepper. Yeah, there's a,

**Pagoda:** there's a pepper

**Gizmo:** for sure. Which is kind of taking, taking it down a step for me. I don't like that. It's strange.

**Bam Bam:** I don't get any pepper, no

**Gizmo:** harshness for me. Really. I get, I get Cedar Earth.

**Rooster:** Cedar, yes. Peppery. Little, little black pepper kind

**Bam Bam:** of mo. Interesting. Maybe a touch.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Hmm.

**Bam Bam:** The aroma's great though, honestly, I'm getting a little maple on it, which is unusual. I.

**Gizmo:** At the burn line. Yeah. It's, it's a little sweetness.

I'm still getting that sweetness on the front of my tongue. Yeah. Which is helping with the pepper in the back. Oh, yeah. But I, I don't love that pepper thing that some of these new worlds have. I'm not getting a lot of pepper though. No, it's not

**Senator:** pronounced a bit. It's just a little bit, which for me is a good amount.

Oh yeah. Taha sometimes can be like

**Gizmo:** a pepper bomb, which it's, that's all, I think that's the entire flavor profile of taua. No, thank you.

**Pagoda:** Yeah. If you look at the wrapper, right, like I, I think, uh, the wrapper's a rojo wrap and uh, what they do is, uh, they put the sheets for the wrapper to grow in the piragua, because in the [00:13:00] UA you don't get wrappers, like you don't get the tobacco to really roll wrappers.

So they put sheets so that the tobacco grows a little lighter and thinner. And, um, that's a wrap they use over here. It's, um, it's interesting like the processes, because if you really talk to Nick, he's based out of, I think Connecticut. Yeah. He's in Connecticut and he is really into the Connecticut shade and rappers and, you know, obviously whatever he's learned through his, uh, lifetime.

Um, but he brings some, uh,

**Gizmo:** really good cigars. Actually very recently I saw an article that, uh, he was pretty heavily impacted by weather. Lost a lot of crop, I think due to heavy water. Hmm. Uh, up in Connecticut. So that's unfortunate. I think they're gonna have enough to make, you know, the next year or two of, of tobacco, but it certainly affected the crop.

Sounds like a price increase coming very well. Could be, yeah. But at 10 bucks, I mean, it's great. I mean, 12 bucks even. I mean this is a very great value. Yeah. So he grows his own tobacco? He does. In Connecticut? [00:14:00] Yeah, in Connecticut and in Nicaragua. Ah, yeah. He's a big grower of Connecticut, uh, tobacco up there.

But this was, uh, all grown in Nicaragua, obviously. And it was also rolled in Nicaragua. And Esther Lee, how are you finding the ring gauge guys? I don't love it. I mean, obviously we did such a block of thinner ring gauge cigars, um, that we had a, you know, obviously we have to cover everything. This is not my preference.

The reason why we did this one was pagoda said, this is the one we smoked course. So obviously this is the one we wanna do, but I would not reach for this. Mm-hmm. Unless it really ends up blowing me away tonight. This is not a size that I even would reach for in my tower. They make a 46, right? They do.

Yeah. Yeah.

**Bam Bam:** I'm impressed so far.

**Senator:** Yeah, same here. I mean, I'll say about the ring gauge. I, I'm at Gizmo's camp in that, this is not a ring gauge that I reach for often, but I'm pleasantly surprised that. My problem sometimes with larger ring gauge cigars, I feel like I just don't get as much [00:15:00] flavor. It's like so much air is just running through it that it kind of mutes some of the flavor notes.

But I'm getting a lot of flavor out of this. And so I think because it's, it's a fuller cigar. Yeah. It holds up well in a

**Bam Bam:** larger format Also, the density of the roll helps. That's true. It minimizes that airflow.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. And

**Rooster:** bigger The rain gauge. The cooler the smoke. That's

**Bam Bam:** true too, right? Because it's airflow.


**Pagoda:** Yeah. But it, but it's a reasonably light to God hold, like it doesn't feel very, it's got some, it's got

**Bam Bam:** some density weight. Oh yeah. Which I like. I like that.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. It feels significant. Oh yeah. Yeah. But great construction. Oh yeah, yeah. Mine's burning. Great. Yeah. You know, uh, the other thing that, you know, to piggyback on what Senator was saying, I, I, what I would, what I would be concerned with in a smaller ring gauge is concentrating this flavor more.

Mm-hmm. And creating more oomph. Know that you're not, maybe not getting in this bigger ring gauge. Obviously I'm, I'm sure that they're adjusting blend accordingly. Mm-hmm. I would think of a smaller ring gauge. You're definitely getting a little bit more of a powerful [00:16:00] cigar. Oh yeah. You know, especially in a Lan sero.

Oh yeah. Or a Corona Gorda. Imagine

**Bam Bam:** this guy a sero. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. A little bit different experience than the uh mm-hmm. The Cubans or the Dominicans.

**Pagoda:** I'm just glad nobody's put it down yet.

**Gizmo:** I mean, it takes away, listen, it takes a bad cigar for us to put it down, but, um, it's performing really, really well.

**Pagoda:** I don't think you've met Rooster.

**Bam Bam:** He

**Gizmo:** never puts a cigar down. I even smoked a Zino. That's right.

**Bam Bam:** And loved it.

**Gizmo:** I thought that was a, a kors. That's what I thought. It was a collab kors. So for the listener, we're referencing a, uh, previous episode where we told the story of, uh, Pagoda and Uba pranking, uh, rooster by putting a, uh, Kai Doe Cuban band, the Kai Dorse number 50 on a Xeno Davidoff budget entry line cigar.

I [00:17:00] and totally fooling them. I have

**Rooster:** nightmares. Oh. Please

**Pagoda:** don't make him relive that because, you know, the more you make them relive it, the more I'm tense all the time around her.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's been a while. And pagoda iss still nervous.

**Pagoda:** I think that's how I'm gonna be for the rest of my life around

**Rooster:** them's.

It's understandable,

**Gizmo:** eh? So, speaking of gifts, yes. I wanna get to the gifts that you brought us. Yes. Let's do, it's, what is this now? This is excellent. I, I, I'm in the loop on this, but I'm very excited to see what you guys think. What is going on? Yeah. So Rooster brought us some gifts tonight for the lizards.

**Bam Bam:** Wow. Are they Zinos? His

**Senator:** new favorite?

**Gizmo:** I think for, I think for Christmas we should all go in and buy 'em a uh, box. Zinos, I

**Bam Bam:** pass, I pass.

**Gizmo:** So Rooster handed out a velvet bag with Drawstrings to each of us with something on the inside. Yeah, just open it. Okay. Oh wow. [00:18:00] Wow.

**Bam Bam:** All right. What the

**Gizmo:** heck? So Rooster got us official Custom Lounge.

Lizard with our names on them. Cigar stands, dude. Wow. Cigar stands made by Troy. Yeah. Hano. Troy. Ha Hano. Troy Woodworks. Yep. Troy Woodworks. Check 'em out, by the way. Makes amazing stuff. That's cool. Yeah. Custom

**Rooster:** and, and great with our Lounge Lizards logo and, uh, and

**Pagoda:** our we're Yeah. Liz. Good over there.

**Bam Bam:** This is fantastic.

You know what, I'm gonna put my cigar

**Gizmo:** in mine right now, but what I love about it, it has a key chain. So you could put it on the keys and take it anywhere. That's cool. Yeah. It like comes apart. Yeah. Troy makes some great stuff. So, Troy Woodworks, I think his website's, troy woodworks.com. Um, he makes custom draw tools custom ashtrays.

Custom cabinets, obviously custom metal work like this. Yeah. Really does great work. Every kind of accessory you can imagine for the cigar community, Troy makes them. And he is awesome. I

**Bam Bam:** have goosebumps because I, I've wanted a, a cigar holder stand like [00:19:00] this and I just never bothered buying one. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** I've only seen Gizmo

**Rooster:** has one.

I mean, I don't, I don't own one.

**Gizmo:** I don't know if you guys have

**Senator:** one. Alright. So I, I'll say this, like, bam, I've wanted one for a while. I've just looked at them online. Most of them, they, justing just don't look great. They, they're not good quality. Um, I mean, gizmo's works really well 'cause it's integrated with his cutter, so he doesn't even have to Yeah.

**Gizmo:** It's, it's a DuPont, it's like

**Senator:** 200 bucks. It's stupid. Right. But, um, this is really nicely done. Very

**Gizmo:** cool. I love this. Oh yeah. Thank you, you so much, man. I actually, I'm happy that it's, it's the metal one and not the one you're Yeah. This is fantastic. Thanks Rooster. Thank you Rooster.

**Rooster:** Yeah. He also sent me a, uh, you can also get this made in wood, but I think stainless steel just kind of feels, it's got some heft that, yeah,

**Gizmo:** it has feels nice in your hand.

What this will

**Bam Bam:** do is when you're in a club and you pull it out and you put your cigar in there, it's gonna be a, a piece that everyone will chat about. That's cool.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. That's fantastic. Oh yeah. And what's nice too is stainless steel, so it holds this massive cigar that we have in our hands

**Bam Bam:** right now.

Yeah. [00:20:00] It's not Buckley. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** And you can also,

**Rooster:** you can also get this as a, he also does like a bottle opener thing, you

**Gizmo:** know, built into that. So I gotta say the lizard, uh, logo really came out nice on it. Senator. Senator was commenting on that. Very cool. It came out really good. Our name right above it. So well done.

Thank you, rooster. Thank you Troy. Thank you guys. I'm gonna employ this right now. Yeah. Welcome in episode Lizard Troy. Well done. Fantastic. He's a great guy. Yeah.

**Rooster:** Yeah. He also sent me a, a torch lighter on him Oh, nice. With our logo engraved and really personalized it. Yeah. Where's mine? Pretty

**Gizmo:** cool.

**Bam Bam:** Christmas the hell. Yeah. There you go.

**Gizmo:** For

**Rooster:** you. 49

**Gizmo:** 95. You got

**Bam Bam:** it done.

**Gizmo:** So boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. I think that, I'm hoping that this, um, goes really well with the cigar. [00:21:00] It's Mount gay xo rum from Barbados. Barbados. That's right. Yeah. So we got this from a lizard friend of ours, Eddie Mau, uh, who I actually met in Cuba in March.

Uh, he was there with, uh, with our friend Nestor, and, uh, met him with, uh, Bruce and Phil and, uh, very, very kind guy. And we were at a party the other night and he said he thought of us when he went to Barbados and brought us back some exo rum, uh, Mount Gay, which I haven't had. So I'm really excited to try it.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's delicious. And I found it weird, Senator, I think we talked about this when he gave it to us. I find it weird that it has that cognac age statement on it. Is that a common thing? Is that,

**Senator:** um, so it, it is. Um, I hate to say it, it it is among rums. I don't usually like, so I was very skeptical of this.

I'm just gonna be honest. I mean, look like Ronza Kapa is a very popular rum. Uh, they have an xo. It is [00:22:00] so insanely sweet. It is so clear. There's so many additives in it. I I don't enjoy it. I mean, it, it tastes built for kids. It's not an adult drink. But this, I have to say, this is really good. I, I, I mean I'm sipping this neat.

Yeah, me too.

**Bam Bam:** All of us are. Yeah, we are. Yeah. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** It's delicious. I think it's great. Yep. Wonderful. Neat. It pairs well with a cigar. I think it has the perfect amount of viscosity to it. Agreed. Yep. And you know, again, credit to you Senator, a perfect pairing for this new world cigar tonight. Yeah, absolutely.

**Senator:** So Mount Gay actually has a really cool history. It's the, the oldest rum company in the entire world. I had really not known that, that prior to us doing this. Um, but it dates back, there's a deeded of sale for the original plantation that they started making the rum at from 1703. Wow. Just

**Gizmo:** crazy. That's 70 something years before the founding of the United States of America.

It's unbelievable. Yeah. That's crazy.

**Senator:** And then kind of, uh, this guy, John Sober, bought this in 1747 and kind [00:23:00] of grew this into the, the real distillery and, and brand that it is today. There are tons of jokes about this guy la last name being sober.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Irony's not lost. Yeah.

**Senator:** So there's a lot of interesting facts about their history.

I'll go through first just kind of how the distillery changed hands and then just some really interesting stuff about kind of how they do things. So I mentioned John Sober purchased in 1747. The name doesn't obviously come from John Sober Mount Gay. It comes from, um, his friend, this guy Sir John Gay Allen, who eventually he had managed the business for him.

And this guy came up with all these innovations and the distilling process like really took it to the next level. So the sober family wanted to rename the brand after him. And apparently there's Mount Allen in Barbados, so they couldn't name it after his last name. So his other, one of his names Gay, that's how they got Mount Gay, uh, became the name today though, uh, in the late [00:24:00] nineties.

Uh, Remy CRE owns the, the brand now really. So it's part of kind of the Remy Empire. Hmm. But, um, A lot of interesting stuff about it. It is, there's four different types of stills that they use to make this. I almost wish Grindr would love a lot of this, but they have, uh, small Spanish and Scottish pot stills, a coffee column still, which we did a Japanese whiskey made.

That's right. Yep. Coffee stills. And their most recent edition, was that the

**Gizmo:** Nicka Coffee Grain? Yes. Yes, exactly. Yes. Which was

**Senator:** very good. Yeah, that was great. It was. That was great. Um, and their most recent edition is an Irish column still, um, which is cool. So, uh, kind of very innovative approaches. It's not like a, I wouldn't say it's the most traditional of, uh, rum producers.

Another interesting fact about Mount Gay, their current master distiller, Tru Diene. Franker is the first woman in its history to run things now, um, which I think I mentioned. We did Appleton Estate. Appleton Estate [00:25:00] had the first woman master distiller of any spirit at any distillery in the world. Wow.

They kind of, you know, broke the glass ceiling there and it's amazing now, Mount Gay, I gotta give the Caribbean credit to have two of the biggest names in Rum Appleton Estate and Mount Gay, both having female master distillers is pretty

**Gizmo:** incredible. It's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

**Senator:** Um, so in terms of their line, there's four main expressions they have.

The entry level is mount gay silver, which is a mixing rum, not obviously to be drank, uh, straight like we are. Next, they have a rum called Eclipse that's aged in two years in bourbon barrels. Then they have a black barrel expression that's a mix of pot and column stills. That's repurposed in bourbon barrels as well.

Then the xo, extra old what we're drinking now, which has a blend of rums that see from eight to 15 years in the barrel. Wow. So a hefty amount of age. And then their highest [00:26:00] N one is called 1703. And that's a blend that varies um, from year to year, but is said to include 30 year old rums. Wow. Wow. In that I'm sure that's pretty pricey.

Um, something that I was fascinated reading, 'cause this must be true of it, it certainly is true of all kind of rums that are distilled in the Caribbean. It says, uh, mount gay their rum ages nearly three times as quickly as spirits that are barrel aged in cooler climates. And then that would obviously hold true for all these rums distilled in the Caribbean.

And it's basically the temperature. It says that about 10% of their aging rum is lost to evaporate evaporation annually. Wow. So, uh, it's just fascinating 'cause you look at some of the age statements and the fact that it says like eight to 15 years. That's a significant amount of age, but eight years is, is almost you, you think of how smooth certain rums can be.

I mean, even Havana Club, what? That's a Havana seven. Seven, yep. Right? Mm-hmm. But it, it drinks like it has more eight in seven years. That's true. And I think [00:27:00] that's a reflection of really the climate, which I, so it's just never knew. Exactly. Wow. Exactly. Which makes sense because you know, wine, why don't you wanna keep wine?

Why do you wanna avoid putting wine in high temperatures? Because it'll age too quickly. Right. And wine is all about finding kind of that sweet spot. And if you accelerate that process too quickly, the wine's gonna be bad if you sit on it for 10 years. And then the last thing is just the mount gay estate, which you can visit in Barbados.

I've never been, but at some point now I kinda wanna check this out. They're, they are on a 280 acre estate. Wow. Which is wild. So, uh, a lot of history. It, it's a really cool brand. And it was funny, I was talking to Uba, uh, recently about this, and he was pointing out, if you think back, like pina coladas for years, where they'd have like a rum floater sometimes it's usually mount gay that they would have as like, is that right?

The floater on top?

**Gizmo:** I didn't know that, but uh, is it like the silver they're using? No,

**Senator:** no, no. The, the floater's, the dark rum. So it's, oh, excuse me. You're light. I'm sorry. Yep. I'm sorry. But, uh, it's really good. I'm

**Gizmo:** enjoying this. So I'm, I'm gonna [00:28:00] say when I saw the XO on it, it was like, okay, this is just marketing, or it's some sort of weird use of the, the cognac type of, uh, marketing on their expressions.

But based on what you just said, it seems totally appropriate for them to be using XO on this room. Yeah, like based on the age and, and based on their wine. That's true. It seems like it makes a, a ton of sense to me.

**Bam Bam:** Honestly. If you take it at, at, at the nose it, there's a clear maple note, which is really enjoyable.

This is quite a delicious

**Gizmo:** drink. It's great. And this is a wonderful sipping rum with cigars, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very like cognac esque did you say? Or no? It

**Senator:** so much? No, it's traditional Rumble rum. Yeah. Yeah. But just done well and smooth and balanced. Like I was worried that this would be aggressively sweet and it's not.


**Gizmo:** Which is nice. And it's not over proofed where, you know, we've, we've had that experience with the Foursquare Oh yeah. The cask, uh, the morning after Cask Strength. It's like that, that stuff like knocks you around. Like if you don't have a, a [00:29:00] cube of ice in that, ah, it's like a horse tranquilizer.

**Senator:** Yeah.

It's a, it's, it's crazy.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Pagoda, what do you think of

**Pagoda:** the rum? I'm really enjoying it. Yeah. It's, uh, like you said, not very sweet because I, like, I'm not a big rum guy as well, right. Like I'm a whiskey guy and, uh, for me, uh, Except for the Havana Club, which I really enjoy. I, you know, this is another rum I'm really enjoying

**Senator:** the signature note apparently from Mount Gay.

And as you just smell the nose, you get a blast of it immediately and it's vanilla.

**Gizmo:** Mm-hmm. Ah, maybe that's what I'm getting. Maybe that's what you're getting banned instead of the maple. Yeah. Can I say something crazy? I think this is the closest rum that I've tasted outside of Havana that tastes like Cuban rum.


**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And Pagoda just mentioned that as well. Are we on

**Gizmo:** the same

**Senator:** page or, well, case know. You literally read my mind. I do that a lot. So

**Gizmo:** should guys, should we

**Bam Bam:** leave the room?

**Senator:** No, I say it with so much [00:30:00] enthusiasm because I've grown to absolutely love Cuban rum. Oh yeah. It's as good as it gets for me at this point.

And it's so hard to find good rum outside of Cuba. I mean, I've mentioned like Appleton estate I really like, uh, their 12 year is great, but outside of that, Foursquare. I said it when we reviewed it. It's just too aggressive for me. I, I like the flavor. I just, I, I can't responsibly drink that, you know? Yeah.

In any real setting. So you need to plan

**Gizmo:** two days of nothing. Yes. After.

**Senator:** Exactly. Just shut it down. Uh, yeah. So it's just been so sad for me the fact that like there's really only one brand that I can legally purchase here that I actually enjoy drinking and everything else. I just find to be too sweet too.

So many additives. Mm-hmm. Just tastes artificial. And this is as close to Havana Club or some of the Cuban rums we've had as anything I've had. Yeah. I find it closer

**Bam Bam:** to the Santiago that we had in Cuba for me personally. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's a good comparison. Yeah. Wow. The 11.

**Gizmo:** Yeah. For [00:31:00] me, I agree.

I think this is definitely closer to Santiago than HA Club. Yeah. Delicious. This is a great, great option to have. If you took the, if, if you took the label off of this bottle and said that this was Cuban rum, I would totally believe it. I agree. Yeah, no question. It's really good. So I think what we learned obviously in Havana is how well that rum pairs with cigars.

Obviously it's a classic Sure. You know, marriage, uh, in Cuba and with cigars, and this is something I'm absolutely gonna run out and buy. No doubt

**Senator:** this is a game changer because at this point I get anxiety when I'm running out of Havana Club or just any Cuban rum and some, some, Liz, you're not close to that.

Some lizards here have really, uh, depleted my stash of, I'm

**Gizmo:** looking around, I don't see anybody.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. There's nobody behind you. There's nobody behind me.

**Senator:** So the fact that now we, I think we have found something that is a completely worthy substitute. This is game changing for me. I [00:32:00] agree. Is it

**Gizmo:** readily available?


**Senator:** yeah. Yeah. Total wine. Any major, uh, liquor store would definitely have mountains. Price point. It's a good question. Lemme look that up. I'm looking right now while

**Bam Bam:** he's doing that surprising with a screw top, like a screw cap that you're getting such quality. Well that's '

**Senator:** cause it's a small bottle. It's

**Bam Bam:** not the full bottle.

Does it come with a larger bottle? I'm sure. Oh really? Yeah. Ah,

**Senator:** that's the one they get. So, uh, the Mount Gay Extra Old, which is the xo, uh, 55 a bottle, which is a great thing. That's a great

**Gizmo:** deal. I'm gonna run out and buy that tomorrow. Great deal. Great. You too. This is really nice sipping rum. Oh yeah, it is.

It pairs perfectly with cigars us and I think if you put ice in it, I actually think it would take away, I don't think it would add the diminish. I, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. No need because, and what's nice too is having said that, the viscosity, like I said before, is perfect for, you know, the pairing with cigars.

Yeah. It's like the flavor, the proof. The viscosity, everything seems right. Oh yeah. So for, for like an extra

**Rooster:** special rum, would you say Santiago 20 is like the

**Gizmo:** best you've had? [00:33:00] Yeah. That's a 10. It's tremendous, right? It's tremendous. That's a flat 10 all day. All day long. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what we rated it.

I think we did on the podcast 10, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a brilliant rum. No, that's an

**Pagoda:** expensive rum, right? Like Yeah, yeah,

**Bam Bam:** yeah. 160 a bottle or something like that. Oh wow. And

**Gizmo:** that was in Havana. Yeah. Which is obviously the only place you can get it. Yeah. Yeah. So boys we're coming in the second third here on the El Wednesday.

Toco. What do you guys think? I like it. Yeah. The pepper is kind of tamed down a little bit for me. Maybe the rum has helped with that. Yeah. But, uh, this is really a pleasant cigar. I don't know if I would compare this to any other cigar that we've done on the pod. No, that's a little different. I'm trying to find cigars to compare it to.

Um, TA mentioned before, which was, um, was not a positive comparison for me. No, I I, but that's kind of faded. It's, it's kind of in a league of its own right now.

**Senator:** I agree. It has notes in it that we [00:34:00] could pull out from different cigars, but there's no one brand or cigar that I would say brings together these flavors in the way this cigar

**Bam Bam:** does.

On the retro Hale. You get a nice little sweet fruit note and a little pope's actually. Very

**Gizmo:** nice. Yeah. The flavor

**Rooster:** hasn't really changed much from the beginning.

**Gizmo:** It's consistent until about halfway. It's, yeah, it's about the same. Consistent. Yep. I'm finding the construction to be excellent too. It's awesome.

**Pagoda:** I've realized that if you, if you really go back and we look at a lot of the new worlds, we don't mind the GaN purs. Um,

**Gizmo:** we, we rate them well, yeah. And I mean, obviously this tobacco is coming out with some age on it. I don't think there's a specific age statement on this. Not that I've found, but clearly, you know, as, as with all Nicaraguan tobacco that we smoke, there's, there's gotta be age on it for it to be Yeah.

It's so a palatable experience. It's so

**Bam Bam:** refined and it's gotta be a few years in the factory before it's rolled.

**Senator:** Yeah. And just Nicaragua tobacco is so strong to begin with. Yeah. I mean, you'd be hard pressed to put out [00:35:00] any cigar with super fresh Nicaraguan tobacco. I just feel like it'd kick you around.

**Gizmo:** We should have like a, a like a study done on the pallet of the blenders who blend this Nicaraguan tobacco and smoke it fresh. Like I can't imagine what that experience is like.

**Pagoda:** But would you think this is medium or medium full? I

**Gizmo:** think it's medium full.

**Pagoda:** Yeah. Medium full. Yeah.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. But it's,

**Pagoda:** it's not offensive in any way's.

Yeah. It's not completely, like it's not full. Yeah. It's a

**Gizmo:** medium full. Mm-hmm. And I think maybe as it heats up towards that last third, as we get to that, maybe it, it might pick up, but I guess we'll see. It's

**Bam Bam:** smoking well above its pay grade. I agree. I agree with that. For 10 bucks, dude, this is

**Gizmo:** unbeatable.

Absolutely. So boys, the, uh, cigar industry had a big win against the United States Food and Drug Administration, which has been, I guess what, a seven or eight year fight. Now, we've talked about it on the podcast a few times. Uh, I believe when Judge, uh, Mata put out, uh, [00:36:00] I guess a previous briefing about kind of where his thoughts were.

I did wanna say he say


**Pagoda:** judge. Indian

**Senator:** judge.

**Gizmo:** No, what you said was, you could say that. I'm not saying that

**Pagoda:** an Indian brother, Indian brother, Indian brother,

**Gizmo:** we should send this guy some cigars. But, uh, you know, it, it, what's beautiful is this f d a regulation on premium handmade cigars has been completely thrown out.

And those cigars will not be regulated. The current market and also future entrance, which was the concern of, of the various organizations, uh, and also the cigar manufacturers of the cost prohibitive nature that this would've brought into the industry to introduce new wine. It would've destroyed the boutique brands.

It would've no doubt that the foundation cigar is a good example of someone that would've, you know, a brand that would've been really affected by this. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Obviously the big boys, you know, Fuente Pedro, oh yeah. They can afford to play, but it's the boutiques. Yeah, of course. And they all came in together and, um, and, and won.

Mm-hmm. [00:37:00] It's fantastic.

**Senator:** Yeah, it's huge. I mean, the, the problem with the, the FDA's ruling that, that this basically overturned. Was it treated premium cigars no different than cigarettes. And that's that, that whole premise is ridiculous. Absolutely. But every person who's ever lobbied on behalf of the cigar industry has said there's no kid.

Like they may pursue cigarettes that is going to try, that, is pursuing a premium cigar like this. No kid's ever, you'll never find a kid walking around the street with a wise man. Uh, we said, I mean, it's just not gonna happen. It's

**Bam Bam:** laughable. The whole thing is just

**Senator:** laughable. And it's like to think, you know, they put all the, now these, you know, big warning labels on cigarette packs and stuff like that.

Obviously the regulations increase there. There's just no need for this. Same thing on the, the whole thing is just silly.

**Pagoda:** Oh yeah. I do wanna give a shout. Shout out to, uh, one of the lizards, Mohammad, whom I met in Kana in

**Gizmo:** Columbia. Oh, from, yeah, he's from California. Right. We talked about amount

**Pagoda:** of Yeah.

He's California. Um, Excellent, excellent. You know, guy, he could be hanging [00:38:00] out with us. He's a lizard. He smokes a lot of cigars, loves Drew a estate, a lot of the new worlds primarily. But, uh, fantastic. And, you know, he sent an article, um, you know, or the memo confirming that, uh, the judge, uh, kind of ruled against the F D A in terms of, uh, trying to, you know, uh, label these as a part of the, like under the, whatever the, was it 2019 or 2017?

I've forgotten. 16 ruling. Yeah. 16 Ruling. Some ruling. Yeah. And, um, it's, it's fantastic that you know, the lizards communicate, number one. We are very happy with, uh, what's happening and, uh, you know, thank you Mohammad, uh, for, uh, you know, uh, sending that article. We really appreciate it. But, you know, the idea is, uh, once again that we are a community and we.

Don't want to be labeled with cigarettes because at the end of the day, [00:39:00] they haven't found any conclusive evidence of it causing the same harmful effects as cigarettes do. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They haven't found any conclusive evidence. The F d A has not been able to come up with anything. And so here, listen, this is a win for the cigar, cigar community twofolds.

Right? One obviously in terms of, uh, the availability of cigars being and it being less regulated. The other being that you can go home and speak to your wife and say, Hey, listen, it's not as bad.

**Gizmo:** Hey,

**Pagoda:** listen, you know,

**Senator:** the other thing that I'll say, just speaking about the community, the, the in the cigar industry deserves a ton of credit on this.

I mean, for this to be a seven, eight year battle, they spent millions of dollars trying to have, having to litigate this whole thing and really seeing it through and sticking with it. Um, I had lunch in, in DC with, um, the, the c e o of, uh, cigar Association of America, which is the, the lead plaintiff on this suit.

Lawsuit is Cigar [00:40:00] Association of America versus the F D A. And um, it was so funny because at the time the ruling had not yet come down. I. And this was one of our things we were chatting about. And he's like, you just can't believe for seven years we've been fighting this damn thing. And you'd think that at some point finally we're gonna be able to get a resolution.

And fast forward a mere days after our lunch, boom, this news pops. It's pretty crazy timing. It's insane timing. Yep. And so I immediately send him, you know, an email congratulating him and I got a great response. He just says, mm-hmm. He says, thanks. It only took $7 million in legal fees. I mean, it's absurd.

C a a had to pay 7 million. I think P c a spent about 3 million in legal fees. I'm sure some of the other, uh, smaller plaintiffs that signed on obviously spent money. It's just to think that that's the price of common sense prevailing that's unbelievable in our, in, in this industry that we care about.

It's just absurd. It is. And

**Gizmo:** to, to your point about community, uh, pagoda, you [00:41:00] know, all the articles that came out, namely the one in Cigar Fishing Ado, it's amazing to see the celebratory statements that were put out. In conjunction, uh, with, with the ruling. I mean, you have quotes from Rocky Patel, Carlos Fuente, little Gomez, who makes, uh, l f d.

You have Javier Teddi, who is, uh, the president, c e o of Tabba, Clara, and chairman of, uh, c a a. And then you also, you have Corey ba of, uh, Oliva. Like you have like 10 or 15 guys putting statements together in unison celebrating this, which is also, you know, to your point about community, like these guys all compete against each other, but not with this.

No, no. Everybody's on the same page. Sure. So United

**Rooster:** Front

**Pagoda:** No, it is, and you, you know, I hope they open up the, you know, regulations in terms of opening a lot more Segal lounges in stores because, you know, it's been so difficult to see a lot of, uh, the presence of these, um, S you know, lounges and stores where [00:42:00] we can go and access wherever we may be traveling.

Um, hopefully, you know, it just opened it up. You know, the idea that we need the availability and the accessibility. These, the

**Bam Bam:** difficulty with that. Those are a lot of local ordinances have control over that. The small jurisdictions, they don't necessarily have to be dictated by what was just recently ruled over.

That's the problem.

**Pagoda:** No, I agree with you. But you know, the thing is you walk around New York City and it smells like weeded everywhere. That's true. That's true. You can't go to New York City. That's, that's, that's true. Compensation to Times Square. That's true. Without smelling weed. Of course, people are allowed to smoke weeded on the streets.

Mm-hmm. There stores opening up, you know, eventually there'll be lounges opening up for weeded, like, what's going on. Of course. And you're taking cigars and you're, you're making us the par community. Yeah. Yeah. And we, we, we, we don't even distort our state of mind. Right. You know, we does. And so, I don't know.

Something's amiss. It's a very good point.

**Senator:** So, yeah, I mean, this is a nice signal [00:43:00] hopefully to state government. I mean, obviously this is a federal issue, right? Mm-hmm. So, lawsuit against the F D A, and obviously that was a big win, but a lot of these laws, like BAM, is saying they're really come down to state laws as well as even local ordinances, municipal counties and municipalities.

And so, um, I, I hope that this is a signal. To the states and municipalities that okay, maybe we should stop treating cigars just like we do cigarettes or some of these other products. They're not the same thing. Right. Um, but I hope some of this maybe is already happening. I, I was surprised to read today, uh, Cohiba is opening, its very first cigar lounge in the US.

Really? In Santa Barbara, California.

**Gizmo:** Wow. General, general cigar Cohiba, not Cuban COHEs, of course. Yeah, of course. Red dot Cohiba. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm surprised. Santa Barbara. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

**Senator:** That's California's, if you can find a way to open that in a place in California Yeah. That's a good sign

**Gizmo:** for the industry.

That's true. So cigar fishing out has summed it up pretty nicely to, you know, for someone who doesn't want to go through the entire, [00:44:00] uh, memo that Pagoda mentioned, what they said was, today's news should mention, uh, today's news should mean the end of warning labels, pre-market review of cigars and other limitations that have impeded the ability of cigar makers to work freely.

Hmm. So that is wonderful that that's tremendous. Cigar makers can just get

**Senator:** back to work. Yeah. And the other thing that's funny about this is the F d A tried to make the argument that if. The industry wins this lawsuit that that means that premium cigars will be unregulated, and that's total bullshit.

Mm-hmm. Cigars, any form of tobacco is regulated in every single state in America. Absolutely. Period. So, mm-hmm. Every state has a minimum smoking age that still applies to premium cigars. Sure. This ruling does not mean that a 14 year old can go buy a premium

**Gizmo:** cigar, rightfully. Everybody would agree. Uh, yeah, I mean exactly sense.

Nobody's celebrating that the 15 year old can go buy a

**Senator:** cigar. So it's just like all these scare tactics that were used, and thank gosh the judge was able to see through all of it and say, [00:45:00] you know, there are state laws in place that this will actually have no harmful impact. Mm-hmm. By basically, you know, deregulating from the f d a's sake, at least, uh, the premium cigar market, it's still, uh, common sense regulation still does exist.


**Gizmo:** it seems like the judge was very frustrated as well. Like some of the stuff I read, he was not kind mm-hmm. About his, you know, in his comments about the f d and their approach to this and, and the way that they, so they, the way that they used, uh, data and the studies that they had done to manipulate the, the truth.

Yeah. He was not kind about it. Nope. And obviously you're seeing that in the ruling, so this is huge guys. Oh yeah. So I guess

**Rooster:** this would, this means that there would be a lot more boutique cigars would come out now and uh, yeah. You would see a lot more new

**Gizmo:** stuff coming out. Sure. Which is only good for the industry.

Right? Yeah. And it also could have been, you know, it could have also scared, you know, boutique manufacturers from releasing new stuff or making new wine. Just, you know, anticipating that there may be some significant costs associated with it or [00:46:00] totally being shut down and be being able to release it. So hopefully this also ramps up, you know, research and development and we see a lot new, a lot of new, uh, new releases from, you know, great cigar manufacturers.

Yeah. This is great for the

**Senator:** lizards, boys. Yeah. I mean, truly in any industry, it's not every day in any industry that you sue the F d A and win. I mean, this is like monumental just from the standpoint of like sticking it to like big government. I mean, that's just not, it's effectively

**Gizmo:** have unlimited resources.

Yeah. You know, like there's no end to what the f FDA can do. Right. So it's, it's a bit of a coup, I guess. Yeah. And this may be good for other industries too, that, you know, telling the f d A to not overstep their bounds and focus on the things that they should be focusing on, like cigarettes. That's absolutely right.

Right. Focus on cigarettes. Yeah. Be my guest, focus on chewing tobacco, be

**Senator:** my guest marketing to kids, not what our industry is about. We don't do that. Absolutely not.

**Gizmo:** So, yeah, this is, uh, this is huge. So hopefully we'll be able to have, um, you know, some [00:47:00] representatives from the associations on at some point.

Cool. We will, we definitely will. Looking forward to that and, and talking to 'em about what they, what they've experienced and learned and, and their takeaways. That'll be a great talk. Yeah. Where are these

**Rooster:** guys from again? Um,

**Senator:** Uh, cigar Association of America. So they're the largest trade association on behalf of the cigar industry.

So all like the, the big, like the Altus, the general cigars, um, they're Davidoff, they're their big members. Uh, P C a, um, is basically a smaller version of them that's more trade show focused. So like a lot of the, the biggest lobbying dollars, um, legal dollars are really coming from c a A and then p C A is more like industry trade shows, things like that, to promote the industry they lobby as well.

Um, and they do great work, but, um, at just kind of different scales. Mm-hmm.

**Rooster:** But how were you able to meet them? Like what was the

**Senator:** connection? Oh, just, um, one of my business partners is, uh, a very, uh, good friends with someone at C a A and, um, they had wanted to get together Okay. And, uh, and chat. And we had a, a [00:48:00] great conversation and they're very interested in coming on the podcast.

That's awesome. Cool. Um, this is not the end of issues for the cigar industry. So like, this is a huge win, but there are other things that they're dealing with around flavors and some other, uh, topics that, um, again, you give an inch and the FDA's gonna take a mile. Yeah. And so they're fighting to make sure that, um, they don't lose ground on some of these issues that may seem for us, like, oh, well, that, that doesn't impact us.

But that's exactly what then opens the gateway to mm-hmm. A lot more, uh, overzealous regulation. Yeah.

**Bam Bam:** You know, we've talked about those flavored cigars, those Philly blunts, those blueberry cigars. We don't

**Gizmo:** consider those cigars. No. We're not gonna smoke those on this podcast. That's completely different type of product.

**Senator:** But the problem is, and this is why I, I can't wait for us to have them on the podcast. The problem is these are all, at the end of the day, adult products. That's, and that's how they're marketed. Yeah. There is no advertisement I have seen in my entire lifetime trying to sell a Philly blunt or even some blueberry flavored acid cigar.

Mm-hmm. To a child. I've never seen it once. And so the [00:49:00] idea is if you say to the F D A or any regulatory body that you can preclude grown adults from choosing those products, that's a very slippery slope to them saying they can decide any of these products that we enjoy, and that's what becomes the issue.


**Gizmo:** We shall see. Well, bam. My takeaway from this is that Senator is certainly a global cigar insider. Would you not say

**Bam Bam:** he's right behind you and Pagodas coming? I'm not behind.

**Gizmo:** No. This is great. And I, I'm, I, you know, when Senator was saying that he was meeting with them and then all of a sudden the ruling came down. I mean, this is just fantastic for the industry. It's, it's tremendous. It is. It's excellent. All boys. We're about halfway through the El wee Toro. Waco. What do you guys think?

I think it's pretty damn good. I'm

**Bam Bam:** enjoying it. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.

**Pagoda:** I'm enjoying it. But it's, you know, it, it's really interesting because [00:50:00] now that I'm smoking it after quite a few years, it seems, uh, to me that it's somewhat flattened out. It's, yeah, yeah. I'm not getting

**Bam Bam:** that. It's, um, no, no, I'm enjoying this.

Honestly, it's a, it's a very nice experience. It's, it's rich, satisfying cigar. For the, for the dollar value, dude. Oh yeah. For the

**Pagoda:** dollar value. It's tremendous. And

**Gizmo:** there's no, no pato. Would you say that that's a product of your pallet changing since the last time you smoked these?

**Pagoda:** I, I think so. Of course you're getting refined.

You're talking about you're evolving. I'm evolving, hanging up with the lizards. It's the lizard of Evolve.

**Gizmo:** So another note on progress for cigars. We talked about this, uh, private, you know, before we came on air. This is huge. So apparently DoorDash has partnered with a, a company called Industrial Cigar Company to deliver cigars.

This is, this is like, they do food and alcohol.

**Senator:** Unusual. This is amazing. Yeah. I am so into this. It's really

**Gizmo:** interesting. Amazing. So, I mean, how is this

**Senator:** possible? [00:51:00] These guys have a great story. So basically it's, uh, industrial cigar companies in Frisco, Texas, in like the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And during the pandemic, like every tobacconist had to grapple with when things were shut down.

They had a really hard time. They're a brick and mortar based business. They had no way to basically get people to come in to buy cigars. So they, I think, created a website. They started selling stuff online, but they had this clever idea, especially for these local folks, 'cause they're not, they don't want to pay to ship this all the way, you know, it's like someone who lives five minutes away from their, their retail shop.

And so they reached out to DoorDash to see if they'd be willing to partner to actually DoorDash cigars out to their customers. And they agreed and partnered and they're now still doing this, which is unbelievable. Wow.

**Gizmo:** It's

**Senator:** incredible. Yeah. And the fact that like, this is the problem with all this kind of regulation, the fact that.

Any adult can go on DoorDash or Uber Eats or some of these platforms and have liquor or drizzly Yeah, yeah. Delivered to their [00:52:00] door. A product that is 21 plus, why not this? Mm-hmm. Especially pre, this is not a cigarette, especially a premium cigar. Why shouldn't an adult be able to have this delivered to their home?

So I hope that this starts to take off in some other states and markets that maybe realize we do this with alcohol responsibly. Why can't we do it responsibly with this product? Yeah. So is this

**Bam Bam:** a nationwide thing? I can go online? No, no,

**Senator:** no. Just in just the Frisco, Texas. Oh. I

**Gizmo:** think that's their, that's kind of their testing ground.

Ah. And obviously every state's gonna be different. Not, I think Texas is probably, not every state is Texas. Yeah. Well, probably a little easier than New Jersey or Connecticut or California or something.

**Bam Bam:** Any lizards that live out there. Give it a try and please report back to us. I mean, I'm, let

**Gizmo:** us know how

**Senator:** it goes.

Just think about this. How many times have we been. Out at a lounge anywhere we're having cigars. Mm-hmm. And let's say, you know, we have, we're we're running out of kind of what we brought to smoke and at that point you're really limited, right? It's what does the next guy have that maybe they wanna share?

Mm-hmm. Or [00:53:00] what does a cigar vending machine have? If you, you somehow encounter one of these things? Or what does seven

**Gizmo:** 11 have? Right? The Philly Blunt Department. Yeah. I

**Senator:** mean, can you imagine just sitting there one night and saying, I'm really craving a padron 80th. Just having a door dasher bring you aronian.

How, how amazing would that be?

**Gizmo:** It'd be incredible. It's decadent is what it is. Or bringing seven

**Senator:** of them. I mean, I don't even care if I had a Petr Nath if this was available. I just wanna support this happening. I, I just wanna have one delivered to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the wonder of cigars. It'd be amazing.

And that would,

**Gizmo:** that would

**Rooster:** definitely prevent me from smoking any

**Gizmo:** zinos under the doce label. That's true. And, you know, to Pagodas point and what we just talked about with the F d A, it's like, you know, liquor being delivered to your home. I mean, I've had liquor delivered to my home. They just leave it.

Sometimes you're supposed to, it's like, it's kind of loosey goosey and like pagoda said, Cigars are not mind altering. No. You know, you could smoke a cigar and get in the car right after. And of course, [00:54:00] you know, you're not having a, an impairment issue. That's right. So it makes no sense to me that tobacco is so that, excuse me, that premium handmade cigars are so looked down upon like they would with cigarettes or something

**Senator:** else.

There was buried in the notes of the case. Uh, the ruling that was issued less than 1%. I think it's even less than a half a percent of underage minors. Have ever even tried and gotten caught trying to get their hands on a premium cigar. I was just gonna

**Rooster:** ask you that. Like, how do they prevent, like even with alcohol delivery, do you have to sign a disclaimer that you're, you know, you're above

**Senator:** 21?

Well, you have to show an ID when it's delivered. Oh,

**Gizmo:** I see. Yeah. Which, I don't know how many times I've done that when Uber Eats or DoorDash delivers. I don't think I've ever pulled my ID out. I have gray in my beard, so maybe that doesn't, but you know, it's, it's, it's not, and you have a

**Senator:** beard. That's a good point.

**Bam Bam:** You actually have gray. I don't even noticed that. I do. I

**Gizmo:** do have a little gray look at you. I'll show you later, Ben. All right. Yeah. Up and up close [00:55:00] and personal. You got it. Yeah. So that's a big win and I would love to see that expand. You know, I'll give you a good example where my parents are out in northeast Pennsylvania.

There is no local tobacco shop. I. I mean, you can't, we're lucky in New Jersey. I, I know for so many listeners out there, they're the exclusive way that they get tobacco delivered to them, you know, cigars delivered to them is via, you know, mail, mail order. But to be able to sit at my parents' house and there be a tobacconist that's able to deliver like this, that's cool.

I mean, that would be a game changer. It is. It's a game changer. Oh yeah.

**Senator:** It's huge. 'cause you just think of how many tobacconists out there have shops that are in areas without a lot of foot traffic. Right. Like, they're not naturally able to have customers just coming in and out every day. The idea that they could not have to ship this out in a very expensive way and deal with packaging and all this stuff, just literally hand an order to a dasher and go bring it to [00:56:00] someone's home.

It, it would be game changing for a lot of these.

**Bam Bam:** It's great opportunity to expand their revenue for

**Gizmo:** sure. Yep. Yeah. And also access, I mean, think about if you're at a, a bar or something, right? There's an outdoor patio that they allow cigar smoking, but they don't sell cigars. They say, Hey, here's a DoorDash, you know, QR code.

Oh, that's cool. Pump it, you know, scan it on your phone and they'll deliver the cigars in a half hour, 40 minutes after your meal. Tremendous. Like that's, that's a game changer. That's tremendous. Not only for the tobacconist, but also for that bar. Mm-hmm. To cont, you know, keep serving and keep you there. I mean, it's just, it, it's a win-win win for everybody.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Have you come back actually?

**Gizmo:** Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yep.

**Senator:** And good for DoorDash Smart because, I'm sorry. They took a

**Gizmo:** risk. That's

**Senator:** a huge risk, huge risk They could get skewered by, you know, every industry opponent that we know obviously goes after cigars, gasp, and, and they weren't afraid. I give

**Gizmo:** them a lot of credit, so I gotta say, boys, this mount gay exo rum [00:57:00] is fantastic and it's a home run.

Excellent. Yeah. I feel like I'm in Havana. Yeah, do too. Like it's really that close for me. I know there's, you know, Havana, you know, Cuban rum purists out there who would think we're crazy, but as far as United States, being able to go to a liquor store and buy some rum, that's as close as you can get. This is it so far.


And for 50 bucks, I. Game changer.

**Senator:** This is literally gonna change my life. I mean, you know, it's, I can only visit Cuba so many times during a year. So, uh, I'm without Havana Club for a good portion of the year. Mm-hmm. The fact that now I'm gonna be able to get this stuff. This is going to, did

**Gizmo:** you go through the six bottles you brought back?

I didn't bring back

**Senator:** six. I thought you did. What do you think? I'm Gizmo.

**Gizmo:** Where was it? Resent the implication, Mr. 400

**Senator:** Cigars

**Gizmo:** in support off the Cuban people.

**Senator:** I think I brought back, uh, four bottles. Four. Four, yeah. Nice. G Gizmo drank one of 'em [00:58:00] by himself. That's right. And, uh, I think I have two left.

**Gizmo:** I'm taking hit spam.

I can see that I'm taking hits, man.

**Pagoda:** I've, I've got a little, a liter bottle. Uh, like There you

**Gizmo:** go. There you go. Nice.

**Pagoda:** I got it from Kana.

**Gizmo:** Oh, nice. So boys the same. The end of the summer's coming, unfortunately, labor days in a few days. Can't believe how quickly this summer went by. Man, it flew by. It did this

**Pagoda:** year.

Knitting. This is the

**Gizmo:** fastest year. Yeah, it's been super far. Fourth quarters coming. It's crazy. So end of summer, obviously getting into what I think is better. Outdoor smoking weather. Yeah. Obviously sometimes in the summer, you know you have those, those nights that are just wonderful, but maybe it's two or three nights of the week you can do it.

But between weather, humidity and just temperature,

**Bam Bam:** September through October is tremendous perfecting. Oh, beautiful. I can't

**Rooster:** wait to light a fire. Oh yeah. Set

**Bam Bam:** outside. Yeah, it's been a while. Light up. It's been a while.

**Gizmo:** I

**Senator:** got a lot of cigar boxes to burn. Yes, we [00:59:00] do.

**Bam Bam:** So do

**Gizmo:** I actually, yeah, so do I.

**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah, and they light up really fast.

Oh yeah. Good kindling.

**Gizmo:** So what are your Labor Day plans? Anything, uh, anything planned with the family, kids smoking?

**Bam Bam:** Um, maybe Sagamore. Oh, okay. It'll be our second time going out. I love it. It's a great

**Gizmo:** spot. So do you go up there for the whole week? Just a few days.

**Bam Bam:** Few days. Four hour drive. Yeah. Good meals, good cigar.

Ah, not four hours, something

**Senator:** like that. Three hours. It's right by Lake George.

**Bam Bam:** I don't drive, my wife doesn't let me drive. Wait, are

**Gizmo:** you serious? She drives. She drives. She

**Bam Bam:** uh, she thinks Yes.

**Gizmo:** Hold the phone.

**Bam Bam:** Alright. She thinks I'm a bad driver.

**Senator:** Wow. You need a Tesla. And, and, and, and your wife is a better driver.

**Bam Bam:** She's a pretty good driver. So I'd like to leisurely sit back in my passenger side and just chill on. I'm on my phone,

**Gizmo:** so Bam is a passenger

**Senator:** princess. Hold on. Uhhuh. So your rims are in one piece. Wow. They're, you are a lucky man. Now I

**Bam Bam:** know where [01:00:00] you're going because on our previous car, the, the rims were dinged up.

But I had a conversation with her. I said, honey, look, this is a scratch. That's a scratch. You get that when you touch the curbs. Stay away from the curb. We're good. And she does, she does. She toes the line. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

**Senator:** One of a kind. Yes.

**Gizmo:** Yeah, I am. I exclusively drive all the time. No, knock on Mrs.

Gizmo, but, all right. Yeah, same. I'm always driving. Yeah, my wife,

**Rooster:** I mean, I wish she would offer to drive, but she doesn't. She's

**Gizmo:** like, no, you drive. Yeah, me too.

**Pagoda:** I'm looking for someone to drive. Do,

**Senator:** do you

**Bam Bam:** really?

**Senator:** Do you really wish you would offer to drive? Sometimes,

**Rooster:** yeah. I don't, sometimes I probably, you know, for a long drive. I'm like, I don't mind.

**Gizmo:** I got, I got a, I got a kid in the house going to college, so that's gonna consume the end of August. Early s Yeah, that's another thing.

**Rooster:** Gotta help the kids move back into college.

**Gizmo:** Yeah, that's, that's my Labor Day plan. That's coming. That's a lot of work coming up. Lot of work. [01:01:00] And then work gets really busy for me in the fall, so there's not a lot of like getting away. Hopefully we'll be able to go to Cuba later this year, but Nice. We'll see. Mm.

**Rooster:** Yeah. We might do like white Face, lake Placid.


**Gizmo:** Um, end of summer. End

**Rooster:** of summer.

**Gizmo:** There you go. Yeah. We

**Rooster:** might

**Gizmo:** do like Nevada, we go like right after Labor Day. Yeah. Senator, how about you?

**Senator:** Very low key. I mean, it's my birthday around that time. That's right. And uh, my, uh, I'll be, I'll be hanging with my son. My wife's off to Cabo. Oh, there you go. Oh, nice,

**Gizmo:** nice dude.


**Senator:** girls trip. Yeah, I've done a few Cuba trips, so, you know, I've got a, I've got a pay it forward and plus I'm not looking to get on like a six hour flight just to go to a nice beach. So, yeah, man, she's going with her girlfriends. I'll be home, I'll be smoking a lot of these and yeah, I'll be enjoying it.

You put

**Bam Bam:** Senator Junior right behind the glass door and show him how to smoke a cigar. That's

**Gizmo:** right. That's right. I feel like he already knows. I feel like the kid is already, uh, reaching for a cigar fishing Ondo. He's reaching for scar aficionado. [01:02:00] He's reaching for Paone. It's true. That's right. It's true.

A little lizard. His favorite magazine is ca. That's awesome. So boys, we're into the last third here. Of the No

**Bam Bam:** complaints at

**Gizmo:** all. Yeah, I love it. I gotta say, and the pairing is just, I can't get over it. So, pagoda, when

**Bam Bam:** was the last time you had the cigar? Was it really that long? Yeah, it's been a

**Pagoda:** while. I haven't really, you know, the thing that I stopped pursuing them and I stopped, uh, um, purchasing them.

Hmm. So it's been a while. And then, you know, it's not carried in most of the cigar stores anyway. It's not something you can go and just pick 'em up. Um, and I, yeah, I haven't really ordered them online as well. Um, for some reason I think I, I started leaning more towards Tabernacle. I. After the GigE I got on Tabernacle and that's, um, a little more preferred, uh, cigar for me now, uh, tabernacle and then obviously the League of nine.

So I

**Bam Bam:** would give this out at parties. I would too. Yeah. To the novice and to the seasoned cigar [01:03:00] smoker. For the price point. I'd smoke this with them

**Gizmo:** happily. I think I would go with the Reus though.

**Rooster:** Yeah. Maybe not, not the

**Bam Bam:** ring gauge.

**Senator:** That's a good point. Yeah. Point. But the cigar itself, I, I think it's a great point that, oh yeah, he has versatility that.

It's got a smooth delivery. Mm-hmm. That someone who's inexperienced can very much handle this. Yeah. And someone who is more experienced, there's enough flavor in here to really keep them interested and good price point.

**Rooster:** Yeah.

**Bam Bam:** Great price. You don't mind handing that. And I could, you know, for a summer barbecue, if there's a big group or even a fall like pre Halloween party, which we sometimes do, it's a great cigar for anybody.

**Pagoda:** Great smoke output as well. Yeah. So people feel they're really enjoying it as well. And the

**Bam Bam:** flavors,

**Gizmo:** it's right there. And I think it's pretty accessible. Especially if you hand it to someone who's not very experienced after a meal. I think this cigars gonna do very well for them. Yeah. You know, like if you, you talk about the, you know, the community dads events that you do and stuff.

Of course for charity, this is a perfect cigar for that amount. This is in price, in flavor. Oh, tremendous. In construction. Absolutely. I think it's perfect for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And you know, to Pagodas point about, uh, some of the foundation stuff not being [01:04:00] widely available at retailers, I think the EC is probably helping.

His lines show up there. 'cause I see them everywhere. The ec. The ec I see everywhere. To the point to the point, I didn't even realize that was a foundation Cigar.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I've had a few of those. I've haven't had a bad one, but you know, they do need to sit for a bit. How would you

**Gizmo:** compare that to this?

**Bam Bam:** Uh, it's, it's a different experience.

I like this better. Really? I do, I do.

**Gizmo:** First Cigar was a winner for Nick Mwa. Oh,

**Senator:** that's actually amazing to hear you say that.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it because it's more substantial and it lasts longer. The flavor profile for both. They're pretty good. But there's, there's just something about this that I'm gravitating to right now.

I like it.

**Gizmo:** Would you say the Olmec is like a more of a medium smoker something? Yeah, it's definitely

**Bam Bam:** medium. There's a Maduro, um, which a little bit harsh, but, um, overall good. Yeah, this is actually a little bit, they,

**Pagoda:** they do this in the Maduro as well. I just had it once. I, I really didn't enjoy it the time I had it, because, [01:05:00] you know, it depends on what you're smoking in, you know, in those periods of time.

And, um, but I, I don't wanna give his Maduro a shot because I'm a big Maduro guy and it's like, uh, uh, but I've always, I remember I always preferred this, um, to the Mado at that point in time when they'd come up with the Mado

**Senator:** as well. So I will say, I mentioned I've had the Maduro, I've never had this, I, I think this is better.

This is right. Yeah. The, the Maduro, it's just not as smooth as this cigar. You've had this in a Maduro? Yeah. Really? The wise man, Maduro. Ah, okay. Never had that. It's a red label. It's a red label, okay. Exactly. And it's a good cigar. There's nothing wrong with it, but this has just a smoother, more complex delivery.

Mm-hmm. That to me was more simple, straightforward. You know, maybe a little bit fuller, but not delivered as elegantly as this is. Yeah,

**Gizmo:** and I think to Pagodas point, I think it's that Roho 99 wrapper that we've mentioned so many times on the [01:06:00] podcast that's appeared in so many cigars that we've enjoyed.

Yeah. And a lot of them are those, we call it lower budget Nicaraguans, that under 12, you know, under 15, under 12 kind of price point that have been absolute slam dunks for us. This, that, that tobacco's appeared quite a bit.

**Bam Bam:** Oh, I think the rating on this is gonna do really well with us. For a $10 budget cigar, this is just incredible.


**Pagoda:** I think so. And even though it's a Toro and like when I saw the cigar, I felt a little, oh my Lord, this is, uh, significantly larger than what I'm smoking nowadays. Um, it isn't. Oh my

**Bam Bam:** Lord.

**Pagoda:** But, uh, you know, overall, you know, it's, it is been smoking well, so no complaints

**Gizmo:** so far. So the other night's thing about the end of summer boys, Is thankfully it'll be the end of the spotted lantern flies.

Ah, which have invaded both of my businesses and my home. They've become senators arch enemies. They

**Senator:** are. I, I wish [01:07:00] I could get like a flame thrower and just burn them all, but apparently that's not advisable. 'cause I looked into this.

**Bam Bam:** What? You can't burn them. You burn. Yeah. I, no,

**Senator:** it's like something about do they survive the flame?

It like puts out a scent that attracts more, believe me. Oh wow. I thought this may be my solution. I would've bought like a blowtorch or like one of those things for a creme brulee and just like burned them all. That's not, poop is lighter. Poop is lighter. That's right.

**Bam Bam:** Yeah. What's strange is we live in the same town.

I've yet to see one anywhere in my neighborhood.

**Senator:** Yeah. When I, when I got to the lounge today, GIZ and I pulled in at the exact same time. There was one literally crawling up the side of the building. What? Really? They're everywhere. They're everywhere. They, and the thing is, you don't notice them unless you are looking for

**Bam Bam:** them.

You know what's funny? I see them in Manhattan and Brooklyn.

**Gizmo:** Oh, wow. I do see them there. You know what's interesting too, is when you try to kill them, which they're not easy, they're not the state. They jump, they like jump like cr Yeah. Like, like, like so fast. Like crickets. Really? Yeah. They're real fast. Mm.

But they're just such a, are they, are they harmful? Like they're [01:08:00] just, they're extremely harmful. Yeah. It's an invasive species.

**Senator:** So basically once they, whatever foliage they get onto, they kill it. Like completely kill it. If you google this, there are articles of people who have literally had like 30, $50,000 worth of damage at their property.

It kills trees, entire trees, the whole tree, it, whatever it, it is sucking outta the tree, ends up killing it. The whole thing rots. You have to remove it. People have lost like, 50 trees. Jesus. If you have a property with a lot of trees and you have no choice but you're moving, the tree's gonna fall and hit your house.

It's a dead tree.

**Gizmo:** Lemme tell you. That's not cheap either. No, it's not. No. When trees out, no, no, no. You're talking

**Senator:** grand. Two grand. Some trees just to remove more than that. Yeah, it's crazy. So I got very scared. I last year is when like, The state put out a warning. It started last year. Yeah. If you see them kill them immediately, they destroy everything.

And I was so thrilled. I said, wow. Somehow I haven't really seen any on my property. No [01:09:00] issue. Yeah. Good. Fast forward to this year, I was trimming the hedges as you guys, uh, enjoy, uh, hearing And his boat shoes. The only thing I do, senator's green thumb. The only thing I do, and as I'm doing

**Bam Bam:** this,

**Senator:** is it battery powered.

It is. It's electric. Oh, of course it's electric. Oh, it's the best. I'm starting way better. It's the best. If you're gonna tell me that you need a gas powered head trimmer, you're being ridiculous. It's ridiculous how it doesn't require much power. Really. It's so much easier.

**Bam Bam:** How's your husk? Varage trimmer going along?

**Senator:** Steel. Steel.

**Gizmo:** He like

**Senator:** steel. He like steel. Steel. Even makes electric products now They do.

**Pagoda:** How about this? I have, I have these one which electric, which had a cord. I cut two cords

**Senator:** down. I'm done. Yeah, you gotta cut the cord. You need the battery power. I need the battery. Power mean lasts so long because it doesn't require a lot of power to power.

Just that happens.

**Bam Bam:** Happens though. Pagoda happens. If you're rambunctious, you're just going through it. I'm a novice. Yeah. All right. That's all right.

**Senator:** So I'm out there trimming the hedges and all of a sudden I'm like, what are these red things? And I'm like, holy [01:10:00] shit. It's the lantern flies. And I just saw one or two at first.

Okay. No big deal. Then I start seeing a bunch of them and they're all just kind of buried in the different bushes and stuff in my, uh, my back and side yard and, uh, Thankfully I caught it early. So last year, if you call like any pest company, there was like no solution to these. They don't have a pesticide for this feature.

No, they don't. But they have figured something out because horizon pest control that everybody in this area pretty much uses. Yeah. I call them 'cause I have them do a whole plan, uh, the whole program for me annually now. And uh, they do have something to get rid of them. They sprayed every single hedge tree, everything.

Vinegar around my property. No, no. This is like some really, 'cause it's the same thing that they, they do like a combo spray. It's like, uh, uh, ticks, mosquitoes, lantern flies, all this stuff. Kid you not. Fast forward a week after they sprayed everything, I was finding dead ones. [01:11:00] Hmm. It's dramatically less.

And now at this point, whenever I see them, they're just like, belly up, they're dead. That's great. It's amazing's, which has saved my, my plants instead. Of course. It's like I don't want them all to die. And the bush that I found the most on half of it is like completely dying. 'cause they were, you know, it's awful pre on it basically.

So I caught it just in time before it causes serious problem. But you know, it costs me like $600 to have them. Oh my gosh. Like spray all this shit. So landscaping's

**Bam Bam:** expensive, you know, all the hedges and bushes. It's not cheap, you know. Well this

**Senator:** isn't even landscaping. This is just pest control. But the,

**Bam Bam:** if it's on a bush, it's, it's half a bush.

Yeah. Yeah.

**Pagoda:** The beautiful looking though.

**Senator:** They are, they, that's, that's the crazy thing. They're actually like probably the like nicest looking bug you'll ever see. But they cause more damage than any bug honestly. You could possibly have. Wow. Period.

**Gizmo:** I've also noticed this year I. There have been some really aggressive hornets or wasps that have been building like these really weird looking [01:12:00] nests around where I smoke outside.

Really? On my deck.

**Senator:** You gotta have this sprayed too. I have, I have, I have the company do that. Well, I

**Gizmo:** have the spray. I just, I just, on your house, they're building.

**Senator:** Forget the spray. Yeah. There's some this crazy commercial grade stuff that these companies have. Is

**Gizmo:** this stuff that like, like after they're done two weeks later there's like an another ear grown outta your head or something?

No, no, no.

**Senator:** It's, it's, I mean, one hour later you're totally in the clear just for an hour. You, you're not, you shouldn't go in those areas. Is this a Monsanto product? Exactly. It's not. I'm telling you, it's safer for they, because all this stuff is so regulated. Hey guys. Safer for kids, safer. I'm flipping your other head.

No, it's amazing. This is the first year I've lived in my house here. I don't know, uh, four years. I've never had problems with like bees or wasps. This year, these like big aggressive wasps were all coming around the house. Wow. They were everywhere. I had this company come. Gone. You guys

**Bam Bam:** must live in an outback because I don't get any of this.

**Senator:** Well, you know, I have just straight woods all. Oh, that's true. I do too. Have [01:13:00] a lot

**Rooster:** of woods. Yes, that's, that's

**Bam Bam:** true. I use terminex. So you do live in the outback.

**Gizmo:** So they,

**Rooster:** we've been using them for the last five years. Now they come in and spray inside of the house, outside the house. 'cause we get these cave crickets in the basement in the lower level of the house.

Mm-hmm. '

**Gizmo:** cause they love near the cigar tower. Yeah, they get into the house they used

**Rooster:** to. Yeah. Wow. I haven't seen them

**Gizmo:** in like couple of years now. Okay. But yeah. Interesting. They

**Rooster:** can because they like moisture and they like, you know. Sure. 'cause we have so much woods. And then you have the lake right there.

Yeah. So because the combination of the water and the trees.

**Senator:** He's got everything in the house. He had a raccoon come through ceiling

**Gizmo:** ceilings. Raccoon terminex doesn't have a, uh, raccoon

**Bam Bam:** plan for you. Yeah, I was about to ask. No, no choking plan. Or

**Gizmo:** you get

**Bam Bam:** a big burly guy with gloves coming onto the property. Mr. Rooster, I got it.

**Gizmo:** No, I got it. I got it. The roo roos doesn't pay

**Bam Bam:** for that. I'll join you.

**Gizmo:** I'll join you too. You need a hand? [01:14:00] Oh, man. Pass man. Coming to the last third. Yeah.

**Senator:** Good segue.

**Gizmo:** So boys, we're coming to the end of the. Toro Waco from El Wee and our pairing tonight, the Mount gay XO rum.

Before we rate it, any final thoughts here? What are you guys thinking?

**Bam Bam:** Uh, great pairing. Overall, a rich

**Gizmo:** experience. I'm very happy with. From a budget standpoint, I think this is, oh dude, budget win flavor construction. Pairing the bra. Obviously the larger

**Bam Bam:** bottle was 50 bucks. How much is this little bottle that we have here?

Do we

**Gizmo:** know that? Uh, it was a gift from Eddie Malmo, so, but I'm assuming it's probably 30 bucks. Five, yeah. 30 bucks. 35 bucks. Wow. Wow. And a $10. Yeah. Incredibles. A $40 experience. Fantastic. So boys, you ready to do the, uh, formal liquor rating on the Mount gay XO rum? Yeah. All right. Bam. You're up. I gotta go nine on

**Bam Bam:** this thing.

Alright. I'm just, it's delicious. It drinks really [01:15:00] easily. Beautiful, delicious. Really satisfying. Nine pagoda.

**Pagoda:** Between an eight and a nine. All right, I'll go, I'll go with a nine as well because I haven't put a chip of ice and I'm still enjoying it. Yeah, and it's fantastic.

**Gizmo:** My man, Senator,

**Senator:** easily a nine.

Mm-hmm. I even flirted with a 10. Mm. The only reason I didn't give it a 10, I can't ignore, like, Havana Club seven is like $20 and makes me so happy and that I'm pretty sure I gave it 10. This is 55 bucks, so this is priced like, you know, a, a good premium spirit. Um, so the value is not as extraordinary as that, but this is smooth.

Flavorful has body doesn't need any ice. I I'm almost talking myself into a 10 as I'm saying this, I'm gonna do it. There you go. I'm, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna say

**Gizmo:** [01:16:00] a 10. All right. All right. So you, you stole my thunder, but I'm, I'm, I've been at a 10 on this since the first sip. This is the best rum that I've had outside of Havana.

Well done. Hands down. Um, I love the, the Foursquare that we did on the podcast twice now once we didn't rate, once we did. Um, that's a 10. This for what it is, for the price for the drinkability. No ice, the viscosity. I can go on and on and on. This is absolutely a 10 for me. No question about it. There you go.

Brilliant, brilliant rum. The rating is excellent. 9.5 boys. That's amazing. Excellent. It's perfect. Perfect. 95 all day on this. Fantastic. What a revelation,

**Senator:** honestly.

**Gizmo:** Yeah, it really is. And we have to say thank you again to Eddie Mau for this gift, because Lizard Auo, he, he, he turned us onto it for sure.

Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna go buy this tomorrow. Right. All right, boys, you're ready to do the formal lizard rating now on the El Wee Toro.

**Senator:** Can I just [01:17:00] say something quickly on the rum? Sure. The one thing that I desperately hope they do is change the packaging. Mm. Because this drinks like such a premium spirit and it's, the packaging is so simple, it looks.


**Bam Bam:** looks, the branding

**Senator:** is not very impressive. It's not, it's not good. And, and it really deserves to be presented better. And I say it's because it's understated. Extremely. It's, yeah, extremely. I mean, I say this because even bottles that have looked good enough, they improve and upgrade their branding. I mean, we did, uh, recently a cognac, a Corvassier, V S O P Corvassier used to come in a different bottle with this blue label.

They now change it. It's a white label. It looks like a single malt scotch bottle. It looks beautiful. Yeah, it's white. That's a 40 white red, yeah. $40 spirit. Mm-hmm. And they've done that. This is a $55 spirit. It drinks like a 80, $90 spirit. I just really hope that they [01:18:00] upgrade the, the packaging because I hope this business does extremely well.

Agreed. This is great stuff.

**Gizmo:** So let's compare to some of the other rums that we've done. We mentioned a few of them on the, on the pod tonight. So we did the Havana Club seven year outta Cuba. That was a 9.8, which obviously I, I, again, to your point, centered I think is factoring in price and obviously the value.

Sure. The value there, no question. Santiago de Duba, 20 year was a 10, which well deserved, no question about that. And then we did the four square rum, uh, exceptional cast selection. Which was a 9.0. We did the Barbin court 15 year, which was a very, very weak 4.6. That was horrible. Wow. That was really bad.

That could

**Bam Bam:** be used on these, uh, flies.

**Gizmo:** Maybe that's what they spray. Maybe they spray the, they probably sprayed. They sprayed the Barban court on the spotted lanterns

**Senator:** wise. That's what it's, yes. They're all junk now. It's

**Bam Bam:** great.

**Gizmo:** That's why they're belly up drunk and dead. [01:19:00] And the other one that we mentioned tonight, I think this is the last one that we mentioned was the Appleton Estate 12, which got an 8.3.

So at at a 9.5. I think this slot's in perfectly rating wise Yeah. Versus the other ones that we've done. It's uncanny how it works out. Yeah. Yeah. We're getting good at this, Pam. We are. This rating stuff. Alright, boys, you ready to do the formal lizard rating now on the El Wednesday Toro HoCo. Rooster, you're up.

Uh, for me it's a seven. Okay. Wow. Wow. I'm surprised to hear that, given your experience. I mean, it's, it's okay. It's a little flat for

**Rooster:** me. It's, it's not, you know, I would, I go out and buy a whole box of these cigars.

**Gizmo:** I wouldn't, yeah.

**Rooster:** If I was in a bind, I might pick one up if there was really nothing else.

'cause there's some other ones that we, that we have had in the past that I really enjoyed

**Gizmo:** more. So

**Rooster:** yeah, it's between a seven, seven and eight. But I think a seven is,

**Gizmo:** that's

**Senator:** my score. I think it's 'cause [01:20:00] it's Koda Cigar. Think there's still a little bad blood video. It should be a

**Gizmo:** two.

**Pagoda:** Well, I'm glad he didn't put it down.

**Bam Bam:** You're actually, by the way, that's a Zeno in your hand with a band on it that explains it.

**Gizmo:** Senator,

**Senator:** I'm at an eight, um, a solid eight. I. Haven't had any rough edges throughout my smoking experience. I, I think the first thing that stood out is the construction. It's extremely well constructed, great draw, um, mostly invisible seams.

Um, I, their, their whole, like, their labels, their branding. It's um, it's a little eccentric in some ways, but I actually kind of like it for some reason. And, um, the cigar itself, the flavor, it had flavor notes that I enjoy. Um, I liked a little bit of the coffee that was in there. I liked a little of the sweetness.

Any of the cedar notes were never overpowering, which would've definitely knocked it down for me. The pepper was [01:21:00] there, but not as aggressive as, um, what's the brand I'm forgetting right now? Ta t Tua. Not as aggressive as a Tua, which was good. And so, um, I would smoke this again. I would definitely pick up a smaller ring, not as large a ring gauge just because I don't smoke toros all that often.

But the fact that in a Toro I'm actually enjoying this a lot, speaks volumes to me about this cigar. And, um, I'm, I'm a sucker for a Nicaraguan Pirro as well. I think that's where you, you know, we're getting all this great flavor from, so I'm very pleased I give it

**Gizmo:** an eight. Yeah, good score. So I'm also an eight.

I, I think, you know, for everything you guys have just said, you know, the cigars not really in my wheelhouse per se, in size. It's not something I can see, like Rooster said about, you know, running out and buying a box or even a Fiverr. But for what it was for this experience, you know, calling back to what Senator often says about a new cigar experience we have that's, that's great or good.

It's like if I walked [01:22:00] into a humidor and this is a cigar that was there and I didn't know much else, I'd be totally happy to pick this up. No questions. So for me it's an eight. I'm curious how the Rab BoostA would do. Maybe we do that next in the line. Sure. Uh, you know, in a future episode, but an eight all day, I think that's, uh, that's, that's right where I'm at.

Pagoda. I think that's

**Pagoda:** a really fair score. I, you know, for me it's a solid eight. Um, and also because of my history with it, um, I. If it was something different, I don't know whether I'd be rating an eight, I'd be maybe clothed to a seven. I don't know. I've been between a seven and eight throughout. Um, definitely an eight for me.


**Gizmo:** Nice.

**Bam Bam:** Uh, this is a unique new world. I haven't had one like this. So for that and the way it's performing, it's an eight. It's delicious. Really easy to smoke, beautifully made. But again, those notes are unique. You know, you don't get that in a lot of new worlds.

**Gizmo:** So the formal blizzard rating boys on the El wee [01:23:00] Toco is a 7.8, which I think is a perfect score.


**Bam Bam:** don't know, I think it's a little low. I'd like the complex. This is a complex cigar for 10 bucks.

**Rooster:** What did you give the c a o The,

**Gizmo:** I think

**Bam Bam:** I gave it an eight, if I remember correctly.

**Senator:** I think I gave it the same, yeah. Yeah.

**Gizmo:** I preferred that over this.

**Senator:** It's the strength of that that I, I know would appeal.


**Gizmo:** Yeah. So

**Rooster:** this just kind of, it. Like I

**Gizmo:** needed some more out of the mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing too is, uh, you know, apples to apples. I'm curious how this would perform compared to the BX three in a Rab. Robusto. Yeah, true. Right. You know, I, I don't know if we would've given the score that we did to the BX three, if that was in a Toro, in a 56 ring gauge cigar.

Yeah. I don't know if that would've performed like that for us. I

**Bam Bam:** would guess that if we did the robusto, your score would probably be an eight, maybe. Yep. And I think we would maintain an eight all the way around. I think that's probably where it would end

**Gizmo:** up, I'm guessing. Yeah. But I think a [01:24:00] 7.8 is a fair score for the cigar.

Yeah's good score. It's a good, good recommendation. It's

**Senator:** definitely a

**Gizmo:** recommend. We're talking again, we're talking about a, a budget cigar dude. 10 bucks, you know, to give you 90 minutes of, of a really nice smoking experience. Oh yeah. We didn't fight it at all. Withdraw with, with burn, with, with construction.

I mean, it performed great and tasty. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. So boys, a great pairing tonight. A 9.5 for the Mount Gay XO rum. A 7.8 for the woe toro.

**Pagoda:** It's, it's really amazing. I, you know, I keep asking myself, what would I rate it going back into 2015? And at that point in time, it was definitely a nine for me.

I just think, uh, either it's, uh, my palate evolving or my flavor profile has changed a little bit. Um, it, it's, it's interesting. It's, um, it's not something I really go out and seek, you know, even today. Um, uh, but, uh, definitely, you know, [01:25:00] uh, I was reminiscing about the past smoking this, um, It's a really good cigar just to hand out to people.

Well, I was just

**Bam Bam:** about to say the versatility of handing this out to a group, I think that matters

**Senator:** for me. Yeah. And most importantly, being able to smoke it with that group. Oh, yeah, yeah,

**Gizmo:** yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not wanting to reach for something else now. And

**Senator:** that's why I gave it an eight for me. If I would've given it a seven.

It's something that like, sure, maybe for a novice cigar smoker, I'd hand out and they would enjoy, but I couldn't as nearly as much, and I think I would enjoy this just as much as anybody. It wouldn't be my finisher. I would, you know, this would, you know why, again, this goes to the point Rooster, and I always go back and forth on if rooster's looking to have one or two cigars.

I get why this doesn't cut it for him. But for me, if I'm gonna have four or five cigars, like this could be my first, second, even third cigar. That's right. And then I'm gonna have like a padron or something with more flavor as my fourth or fifth. So it slots in, well, in a, in an instance like that. Yep.

**Gizmo:** Yep.

Yeah, I would hand this to everyone else, but I'll, I would smoke.

**Senator:** I'd smoke something else. A [01:26:00] Zeno, ladies and gentlemen, classic Rooster. Yeah, it would be a Zeno,

**Bam Bam:** wouldn't it? No.

**Gizmo:** So Rooster, thank you for these awesome cigar stands. Yeah, very nice. Appreciate. And we have to shout out again, Troy woodworks.

Banano Troy for this. Uh, you know, I just realized beautiful work. It does have a bottle opener. What? Wow. Oh yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. Look at that. There's a bottle opener on it. Yeah. Wow. All right. Every lizard needs to run out and grab right now, so this is cool. Yeah. Tell Hano Troy that we sent you. Troy woodworks.com.

Nice. Alright. And uh, we have to thank Eddie Mau too for the, uh, yeah, the Mount Gay. Yes. Lizard. Mau. Thank you. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Great guy. Alright, boys again. So a 9.5 for the Mount Gay XO rum and a 7.8 for the El Oe Toco. Excellent night boys. We'll see you all next week. Awesome. Hope you enjoyed this episode.

Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards [01:27:00] pod.com. That's lounge lizards p o d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.

Email us hello@loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.