Create your net zero strategy document

Show Notes

Richard Dickson, founder of Play It Green, talks us through his net zero framework which helps businesses reduce their carbon footprint.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
02:00 The Mission and Products of Play It Green
04:28 The Net Zero Framework and Creating a Plan
07:46 The Importance of Governance in Sustainability
12:11 Reducing Carbon Footprint through Energy Choices
15:41 Sustainable Food Choices and Waste Reduction
21:06 Sustainable Transportation and Venue Choices
23:57 Resource Use and Waste Management
27:43 Engaging the Workforce in Sustainability
31:06 Conclusion and Call to Action

Click here to see the net zero framework.
Click here to connect with Richard on Linkedin.
Click here to read more about Play It Green.

Click here to learn about Play It Green

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Richard: 00:00

Hello. I'm Richard from Play It Green. Today, we're really excited to support a Hospitality Playbook podcast. Play it Green provides a unique sustainability initiative that is free to hospitality operators where you simply add a removable 1 pound to each bill. For that pound we'll plant not 1 but 2 trees and give 10 p back to a charity of your choice.

Richard: 00:22

And in return, we'll educate your whole team on sustainability and provide you with guidance, resources, and a network of sustainable hospitality solutions and services. We'll help you build robust ESG credentials. The result is increased consumer loyalty. Ready to embark on this journey towards climate positive hospitality? Click the link in the show notes to find out more.

Liam: 01:00

Awesome. And I've got Richard. Thank you so much for being here mate. Lovely to sit down with you.

Richard: 01:04

It's good to be here Liam. Thank you for having me on.

Liam: 01:07

We've I guess we've reconnected a little bit, haven't we? Because, I guess we first connected a few years ago when you were doing a similar thing in a in a different employment. And then we connected again sort of a couple of months ago at a recent, hospitality event. And I think what you're doing, mate, is absolutely fantastic. I've been kind of following along a little bit, and I'm really happy to say that we'll be supporting you as well, which we'll get into.

Liam: 01:31

But first thing to say from me is congrats on what you're doing, mate, because I think it's brilliant.

Richard: 01:35

Thank you. Yeah. It's, hospitality is an amazing industry with amazing people. And the goal when I left the previous employment was always to go back into hospitality. We had to wait a little longer than I would have expected, but I wanted to bring something that wasn't just about nature repair.

Richard: 01:54

It wasn't just trees, but was actual genuine sustainability to help support businesses because it's something that's so new, but so needed. And we wanted to, you know, I love hospitality of the people in it, and I wanted to give back to it. And this is part of doing that.

Liam: 02:11

Perfect. So let's just bring people up to speed. So I know the whole idea of Play It Green is is very comprehensive, and you offer a lot of different things. But just try and sum it up for me. What is the mission and the main products, if you can?

Richard: 02:25

Fab. So very simply, we have a 3 step solution to climate change. If you embrace all 3, you you are embracing what we would call ESG in business, environmental, social and governance. Our 3 step solution is reduce, and we reduce footprint through tips and education, through signposting to sustainable services. We're not experts in, say, footprint reporting or carbon reduction plans, but we can signpost you to people that are experts.

Richard: 02:56

Our step 2 is repair, and we repair the planet through reforestation, coastal repair, and seaforestation. And then our step 3 is we give, which is the social side of things. We we give 10% of our turnover to charity, and whoever joins up to our community as a partner, chooses where their 10% goes to. And we've currently got about 42 charities when we started with 3 at the beginning 3 years ago.

Liam: 03:22

Perfect. And I guess from the listener's point of view, so, you know, there's gonna be many operators and senior leaders listening to this. So I guess from that point of view, it's a cost free solution to to build a, eco friendly policy essentially, isn't it?

Richard: 03:37

Yeah. Correct. So the way we work with hospitality, ecommerce is simply adding the pound to a bill. And for that pound, we will plant, a mixture of sea kelp mangroves and trees. We'll plant 2 products for each pound and give 10 p back to the charity.

Richard: 03:56

So that already is having an impact, both environmentally and socially. And then we provide a full, members platform with support in terms of documentation, for example, the net zero framework and sustainability policies and guidance. You get access to all of our educational content that we write weekly. And also, more importantly, you gain access to a community of other like minded businesses, whether it's lawyers, marketers, you name it. We work in lots and lots of different fields and have partners, and we create a collaborative approach to our community.

Richard: 04:32

So everyone wants to work together. It's really cool. It's free for hospitality and ecommerce.

Liam: 04:38

Perfect. We love that word, free, don't we? So usually, we take a couple of minutes to qualify a problem and just let people know why we're talking about this and why it's important. But I don't really think we need to that much with this because it should be pretty obvious to to everybody. This is a really well known problem that we're trying to solve.

Liam: 04:58

So we've got I wanna go straight into this framework because I wanna spend quite a bit of time on this. So one of the ways which we're, working with yourselves, is through the actual framework itself. So you very kindly, allowed us to put, a version of your framework up onto pillar. Mhmm. And just a quick, note to the listener here that if you you're not driving, it's safe to do so.

Liam: 05:21

Just go into the show notes because you will actually find, a link to our templates page where you can actually see the framework. So you can follow along, give you one too, as we're talking about this. But, the framework itself which you've shared is a way essentially for businesses to create a net zero plan, if you like. So we're gonna go through that, and I want you to kind of, break down each section a little bit, for us as we go along. So just quickly explain what this is.

Liam: 05:52

That sounds quite complicated, doesn't it? A net zero framework. What what is that?

Richard: 05:57

So the framework covers all areas of what we would class as ESG, so the environmental, social, and governance. We've gone into more things than just net zero. We because sustainability covers things like governance, which isn't quite covered in net zero. So the the document is quite weighty, and we wouldn't recommend anyone taking it all on at once. It is a case of, like anything, change has to happen in small steps.

Richard: 06:26

And so we've broken it down into the key areas that that we perceive, you need to look at as a business, starting with governance and moving on from there. Yeah.

Liam: 06:39

So at the end of this, if somebody fills this in, they will basically have sort of a net zero plan of action. That's the objective. Yeah?

Richard: 06:48

Correct. Yes. I should point out that for larger businesses that have legislative requirements, they do need to go down a slightly different route because they would need to potentially bring in a consultant to do a scope 3 footprint reports and then provide them with a carbon reduction plan. But that is only legislation for businesses over a particular size and probably not most of the people we'd be speaking to.

Liam: 07:16

So what what what's the cutoff there?

Richard: 07:18

So it's 200,000,000 turnover, or 250 employees.

Liam: 07:22

Right. Okay. Fair enough. I can't yeah. I mean, so 200,000,000 or 250 employees?

Richard: 07:28

Yeah. Full time employees.

Liam: 07:30

Okay. So there may be some people listening who are in a business with over 250 employees. So if you are, then, feel free to reach out to Richard. So Richard's LinkedIn bio will be in the show notes as well. Okay.

Liam: 07:45

Let's get into it then. So, you've mentioned the first section, which is quite a scary word, governance. So just talk us through kinda how that how that works in this sort of, framework.

Richard: 07:56

So governance is is how you run your business. It's it's the lead the the way the leadership behaves, acts, the way it sets its policies up for things like employment, diversity, equality. With the framework, we do provide a supporting document that provides loads of questions to look at question each area of the governance section, looking at sustainability, setting up an advisory group, checking that company policies are in place. As I mentioned, there's antislavery, equality, and diversity. In hospitality, single use plastic policy, have you done a risk assessment for climate change to see if it will impact the profitability and long term nature of the business?

Richard: 08:51

Do you provide the right training? Lots of things, but but overall it's about people and behaviors.

Liam: 09:00

Mhmm. So how are you gonna basically lead from the top and sort of implement a culture Yeah. Which is, net zero, a positive, I guess, you know, make make sure it's important. Some of the points you've got here are to do with, board and staff training, creating obviously a climate change factor and a risk assessment. Mhmm.

Liam: 09:23

We've got, what else have we got? Annual objectives, which is important.

Richard: 09:27

Everything needs to be measured.

Liam: 09:29

Definitely. Yeah.

Richard: 09:30

With with sustainability, if you're making claims and you're not measuring them, you don't have the proof, there can be accusations leveled that you've greenwashing. For example, saying you're being sustainable by planting a tree is greenwashing. Saying you're sustainable by the fact that you've measured your carbon footprint and you found that this has a high impact and therefore you're going to phase that out and that's the positive impact it's had on your business, that is being sustainable. It's about transparency as well. And and just following on from transparency, one of the things with governance is having things published on your website.

Richard: 10:08

So do you have a sustainability policy? Is it published on your website? Have you got a sustainability web page? This sells. And the reason I say that is because whether it's from employment behavior or consumer behavior, particularly with Gen z's and young millennials who are the biggest spenders now, one of the first things they look at is your policies.

Richard: 10:31

Are you being sustainable? Do you have a good employment policy? If you can say yes to those things, you are gonna gain new customers. You're gonna create a stronger brand, more loyalty, the same with employees. The research all shows that now.

Liam: 10:48

Yeah. And one thing I'd say as well, no one sort of many business owners, especially small to mid to midsize business owners who listen to this, This governance section is often the thing that's missed out because as we go on to talk about some of the other tactics now around energy and food and waste and things like that, People hear about all those other tactics if you like, and they just go straight to them, but they don't often do a lot of this governance. So I I really would sort of just try and press on to the listener to go make sure you go through that governance section. Don't miss that.

Richard: 11:19

Governance and culture is huge now. It's it's becoming more relevant than price. I mean, price is always, particularly in it's always going to be relevant. But where the the research shows that people are willing to spend more with companies that are being sustainable, that have better practices for employment. You know, if your staff are telling everyone how much they love working at your restaurant, your customers are coming back, aren't they?

Richard: 11:48

Whereas if your staff are all unhappy and, you know, they're just on a 15 hour shift and they're not getting paid very much and there's no good culture, that comes across as well. And so this is one of the reasons governance is number 1. Everything else is easier. The governance, as you say, it's the bit that you need to focus on, and that takes time because culture change, which is part of governance, that takes time.

Liam: 12:13

Superb. Okay. Right. So the fir the next section then after governance, we've got, oh lost my documents where am I now?

Richard: 12:21

Energy's next.

Liam: 12:22

Energy's next yeah so this is the thing that I often think a lot of people think of first when they're thinking about how they can reduce their carbon footprint. So talk to me about this one.

Richard: 12:33

So, strangely, energy is one of the first things to look at when we first launched and a business signed up, because we originally launched as a subscription service for individuals and families, but someone signed up his colleague his business. It was a a SME with 10 staff, and he did it as a staff reward. The staff, within a few weeks of our weekly tip newsletter, which is provided free of charge to all our members, The staff had started asking what could they do as a business, and he came back to us and he wasn't doing anything and he needed to know where to start, which is a story we hear time and time again at the moment. And energy is one of the biggest because, obviously, you're using energy to operate your business. And if it's if it's based on fossil fuels, then you are having a significant impact on the planet.

Richard: 13:18

An easy way to change is to switch to green energy. If you wanna do it properly, you need to do a footprint report as well and assess what your baseline footprint is. So baseline is what what the environmental impact in your footprint of the business is before you've made any changes. We always call that the baseline. Once you've done that and that there's 3 scopes to energy emissions.

Richard: 13:42

I won't go into too much detail here. Most companies, smaller companies will do scopes 12. Scope 3 is harder to calculate because that is based on your suppliers and you would have to get supplier data. So, for example, a manufacturer that has stuff made in China and shipped over, it's very difficult for them to get the footprint report for the products that they buy from China. This is one of the reasons why manufacturing over the next 5 to 10 years will start to become more localized again, which is very interesting.

Liam: 14:12

So how how would somebody get that baseline report? If somebody's listening right now, how would they do that?

Richard: 14:17

So you can there are lots of tools online, free tools to do it yourself online. I would suggest that that isn't the best way, pure and simply because over the next few years, legislation is going to filter down to smaller businesses. At the moment, they target the largest businesses and the biggest emitters. But that legislation is gonna come down. So to future proof your business, it is better to go to a consultant or an expert and and get a proper carbon footprint report that is legislation proof.

Richard: 14:56

Following from that, you can then look at the areas where you're emitting the most, and that forms the basis for your carbon reduction plan, which you can then publish. And then you remeasure every year to make sure you're being successful in the the long term reduction of the impact to the business.

Liam: 15:13

Perfect. Excellent. And a lot of the times would this result in, switching energy providers?

Richard: 15:21

If you're on Brown Energy, almost certainly. Brown Energy being fossil fuel energy. Obviously, that comes with carbon output, whereas green energy, solar, or wind power, or wave power doesn't, or even bio, it doesn't.

Liam: 15:38

K. Got it. Perfect. Okay. So there's a few questions in there.

Liam: 15:43

So the next section, food. K. So probably the thing which I think people, might think about next. So talk to us about that.

Richard: 15:51

So, yeah, this this, is probably slightly different for hospitality. This our net zero framework is for all businesses, but obviously, hospitality food is your output. That's what you do. But there's key things to think about. There's a term called food miles, where the food's come from, how far it's been distributed, and so on.

Richard: 16:14

Those are all things to think about. Supporting local is huge. If you can buy the products that you sell locally, you're massively reducing your environmental impacts. So it's things like thinking about that, not over ordering, reducing food waste. And we actually have partners that we can signpost to that focus on things like that.

Richard: 16:37

So for example, producing a carbon footprint for a dish so that you can put along with calories, you can put carbon impacts on the menu so your diners can then make a choice based on more information. And, again, that acts as a differentiator. And then things like food waste, not only does it create an environmental impact, but it's costing restaurants money.

Liam: 17:01

Mhmm.

Richard: 17:02

And if you can reduce that and get to the point where you don't have food waste or you have minimal, not only are you reducing your impact, you're increasing your profitability as a business. And then looking at things like not sending food to landfill. Can we do do something else with the food waste? Because, again, that would reduce the impact of the business.

Liam: 17:24

Mhmm. And would you include, things like your food packaging and things like that in this section?

Richard: 17:33

No. I don't think that's included in there. That would more more be in the next section, which is procurement. It's how because when you buy food from someone, it comes packaged. And, really, I mean, hospitality could have a massive impact on suppliers by saying we're not gonna buy from people that are sending us through stuff in excessive plastic packaging.

Richard: 17:58

That's how to create change as well. Change suppliers, demand from your suppliers that, and I know, I saw recently an article from Brakes, one of the biggest suppliers that they're now providing carbon impact information for the food products that they're selling, which is really cool. So I think some some of the businesses are taking it very seriously, which is great to see, and that obviously will have a trickle down effect.

Liam: 18:22

Perfect. So you got to we gotta set the section 3 is about food, and I guess what we do with the food once it's in the building and how much waste and everything we're producing from our product in hospitality, which is the food essentially. But the the next section, procurement, is essentially how you think about the food before it gets to you. Is that a good way to describe it?

Richard: 18:43

Well, procurement is everything. It's what you buy, what you buy in to the business. It could even be toilet paper, anything that you purchase that that is used within a hospitality business. You you

Liam: 18:56

Cuts and straws. Cures. Yeah. All that type of stuff. Yeah.

Liam: 18:58

Okay.

Richard: 18:59

Everything. Cleaning products. Again, there's all these different areas that you could and, again, we have partners like Mac who supply plastic free, eco friendly cleaning products, that are amazing, reduce your footprint. And these are all simple switches. It's just looking at the whole again, going back to how meaty the document is, it is a big thing to do and it's a big undertaking.

Richard: 19:24

But if you break it down into bite sized chunks and do one thing a week, one thing a month, in 10 years' time, everything is completely different, and you're running a sustainable business. It's it's looking at each step rather than the mountain top, I think, is the best way to describe it.

Liam: 19:39

Yeah. And I guess the other thing about this type of exercise is it compounds, doesn't it? Right? So if you if you do one thing this week, by the end of the year, it's gonna it's gonna have compounded massively if you're doing one thing per week rather than wait in 6 months and then perhaps doing 5 or 6 things. Yeah.

Liam: 19:57

Just just sort of, I guess, through through all of this, just take a long term approach on it and just set yourself a little target that you know you can achieve, like, one thing per week, for example.

Richard: 20:07

And that's why that's why we do a weekly tip. So parts of the free service we provide to to restaurants when they have the pound money is we provide a weekly newsletter, which has a single business tip, some happy news, positive news about sustainable change, and a personal tip. For example, we've just done sustainable coffee capsules. You might not know, but the coffee capsules used generally don't get recycled. They end up in landfill.

Richard: 20:34

But we highlighted 3 companies that make biodegradable ones that you can just stick in your compost bin in the back garden once you've used them, and they've gone within 4 to 6 weeks, which is fantastic. And what that does is it gives the people that read what we do a single thing that they can embrace that week, And it's not for everyone. Some people don't drink coffee, but sustainable jeans or sustainable moisturizer, whatever we've covered that week, the the different weeks. There'll always be something for someone and that's the journey that people take those simple steps.

Liam: 21:06

Excellent. Next one then is transportation. So I guess this is all about how you people get around who who work for you and and that type of thing. So talk to us about that.

Richard: 21:17

So if you supply cars to your employees, are they electric? Or if your staff are traveling to work, are they car sharing? Can you provide, bikes? Or somewhere safe for them to lock up their bikes even. All of these things that can encourage more sustainable behavior, encouraging use of public transports.

Richard: 21:42

And if you're holding events at your location, educating the people that are coming on the more sustainable ways to travel, all of these things. Not only is that the right thing to do, but it will also create more engagement, and it will improve your brand because people that are coming are gonna straight away think, wow. They really care about the planet. Look. They're providing us with this extra information so we can get there more sustainably.

Richard: 22:07

So it changes the way people view you as a business. Perfect.

Liam: 22:11

And I guess that might some of that might sound quite expensive, but there's easy ways you can do that. Isn't it? Like, providing providing a cycle to work scheme, for example, should be pretty costly.

Richard: 22:21

And there's government funds to to do a lot of this as well. When it comes to sustainability, whether it's tax breaks on electric cars, if you're a large business, or whether it's government funds to pay for bikes and things like that for your employees, there's always initiatives that the government's supporting to to help businesses engage with sustainability. Perfect. Travel's really important. It's obviously a big impact area.

Liam: 22:48

Super. Excellent. So the next one is to think about your venue. So, this one, I guess, might be quite, well, be very different. It won't depend on who's listening, but talk to us about that one.

Richard: 23:01

Yeah. I mean, just a simple thing like changing all your bulbs from the old light bulbs to long term. Not only does it save you money longer term, but it massively reduces energy. I've just visited Robinson's Brewery, and all their lights are on timer switches. So I was having a meeting with the CEO.

Richard: 23:19

Every 10 minutes, he had to get up and wave his arms around in the room because it went dark because we were the only 2 people in this huge room. But it it just goes to show that they're taking sustainability seriously because otherwise these lights would normally have been on all day in an empty room, which is just wasting energy completely. And then there's other things like having plants, having live walls. Not only do they look nice, but they clean the air. You know, if we had moss walls and and trees on the and grass on the roofs of buildings in the city centers, the air would be far cleaner than it is currently.

Richard: 23:55

This is well known, and it creates a better feeling of well-being, as well.

Liam: 24:02

Yeah. Yeah. We did the whole podcast on that, actually. Biophilic design, if I remember correctly. Yeah.

Liam: 24:08

Which was, much of it was way over my head, but it was very interesting.

Richard: 24:11

Yeah.

Liam: 24:14

Let's see. Let's see. So next one is resource use and waste. We talked a little bit about food waste, but I guess this is a bit more, comprehensive.

Richard: 24:22

Yeah. Waste is really important. Recycling is really important. But making sure that people understand what goes in what bin and making sure that you're using a supplier that does recycle and making sure you get that they're not being shipped off to some developing world countries, and just putting the problem elsewhere. But it's also things like going paperless, avoiding single use plastics.

Richard: 24:52

The the industry is getting there with things like that. Weighing your waste as well, because that then if you're measuring and weighing your waste, you can have targets to reduce it, and you can look at what's producing the most waste. And in general, when you reduce your waste, you increase your profitability because you're not throwing stuff away you've bought. And then also promoting circularity if you can as a business. What can we reuse?

Richard: 25:20

What can we reduce? And then everything else we have to, recycle, don't we?

Liam: 25:25

Perfect. I love that. This is one which I think is quite obvious when you think about it, but I don't think a lot of people would think of straight away. And it's, it's water and water use.

Richard: 25:36

Mhmm. Yeah. Really interesting one. It was actually the epiphany that my business partner had when cleaning his teeth one night that, created the business as it is today. We originally were gonna go into sports very early on.

Richard: 25:53

And Chris was cleaning his teeth one night, and they just read a big article on waste and how much we have water scarcity, which you wouldn't think in a world that's 3 quarters covered in water, but it's unusable water. And I think was it I heard 1 in 5 people on the planet, don't have access to clean water.

Liam: 26:11

Wow.

Richard: 26:12

Which is really scary when you think about it when we're in the 21st century and, technically, everyone could have access to everything. So restaurants use lots of water, whether it's the toilets, whether it's cleaning, in the dishwashers and things like that, whether it's bottled water, we use a lot, in cooking, and it's looking at ways to manage and reduce the water use, because it I think we look at everything wrong. If we looked at every single thing we use as a commodity that we've paid for, then we wouldn't waste as much and we wouldn't throw away as much. But every time you turn your tap on, you're paying for that service, and it's only getting more expensive. So if you can reduce it, like I say, you will save money as well.

Liam: 26:57

Yeah. That's a good that's a good way of looking at, actually, because it feels free, doesn't it? Because you don't pay for it at source, so to speak. But if you I guess if you can I guess with a lot of these things, actually, if you can sort of tie them to a financial benefit, not only will it be easier to understand, but from a operator's point of view, it'll be easier to implement as well, won't it? Because it's kind of dual benefit in some ways.

Richard: 27:21

Yeah. And and then you've got the added you're saving money, but then if you're doing all this right and talking about it, you'll be making money because you will increase your business because people are becoming more attracted to the businesses that are engaging in sustainability and social impact.

Liam: 27:37

Mhmm. Yeah. Really interesting. Perfect. And then the very last one, we've got projects and workforce.

Liam: 27:46

So, when I saw this, I originally thought this is quite similar to the governance in some ways, but, on the other end.

Richard: 27:53

In a way, it is. So the governance is how you run your business. It's, the policies that you have. And this is these are things that your workforce will now look at. When you go to work for a business now, was it 40% of Gen z employees won't even apply for a job with a biz for a business that doesn't have strong environmental, social, and governance strategies?

Liam: 28:19

Wow.

Richard: 28:20

So you're losing out on a huge amount of top talents. And what's interesting, we do have a number of our partners that have our climate positive workforce subscription who use it to recruit people. We're on their on their recruitment pages. They talk about us in their job interviews. They're we're part of their onboarding process.

Richard: 28:40

Going back to that well-being, it makes staff feel good. Working for a business that's doing good for the planet, it reduces that eco anxiety. And your workforce is your biggest commodity. They are the people that make your business. And go back to what we said before, if they're happy and they enjoy working somewhere, they're a, you're gonna have better in more positive interactions with your customers, but the culture of the business will be better.

Richard: 29:07

The environment will be better for people to work in. You will have less staff turnover. And when you your turnover reduces, your culture improves. So all of this adds up to making a better place to work, a more attractive business. And I say it so often, but sustainability now sells, it's not just about if you just box ticking, people will see through it.

Richard: 29:33

But if you embrace it and it becomes part of your culture, it sells. It it it attracts people now. Having initiatives, so a great one. So let's talk, and the work they do, helping improve physical and mental well-being within hospitality. There's a reason why they're doing so well and being engaged by so many businesses because well-being, again, that sells.

Richard: 29:59

When your staff are happy, they're productive. Doing good and being good feels good. It's genuinely true. And so by engaging with sustainability, with social values, having good governance, that can only have a positive impact on your business. And I think sometimes the the issue with COVID and hospitality having to change and not having as much money spent.

Richard: 30:30

I mean, I have friends from pre COVID who are no longer working in hospitality that owned restaurants, and not just 1 or 2, quite a few that have had to do something else. But that's really difficult. I think engaging in sustainability, social value, and culture can help reduce that happening. I genuinely believe that. And I'm not saying they weren't doing most of them, it was just situational.

Richard: 31:01

You know, businesses that relied on lunchtime, custom that didn't come back when people work from home, things like that change. But I I genuinely think that businesses that are doing good will be the ones that float to the top.

Liam: 31:16

Perfect. What a what a fantastic place to leave. Couldn't have put it any better myself. So as a quick reminder, if you've not managed to open up the framework while we've been talking, you can actually go into the show notes and open that up, and you can complete that inside of pillar. You'll also find a a a LinkedIn URL to connect with Richard as well for more questions.

Liam: 31:40

But, Richard, for me, thank you so much. That was brilliant. It's really, really useful. I think that a lot, hopefully, a lot of our users will be going through that process over the next few months. And let's, let's see if we can make a change.

Liam: 31:52

Thank you so much for your time, mate.

Richard: 31:54

Thank you, Liam. Appreciate it.

Liam: 31:55

Cheers, buddy.